Author Topic: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled  (Read 2443 times)

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Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #70 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 11:57:29 »
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”


And what "image" was extant that God used?????  A human image that we were patterned after.
That's easy - the image in this case is intelligence.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #71 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 12:19:54 »
Don't be silly. What image?  The only image that makes any sense at all is the spiritual image.  We are, in our spirits,  in the image of God.  It is what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.
That's easy - the image in this case is intelligence.
I seriously doubt the ancient Israelites had that in mind when they read (or had that read to them) such passages.  And if they got it wrong, why did NOT God correct that in the various writings from the Prophets?

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #72 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 13:06:06 »
I seriously doubt the ancient Israelites had that in mind when they read (or had that read to them) such passages.  And if they got it wrong, why did NOT God correct that in the various writings from the Prophets?
The ancient Israelites got lots of things wrong when they read from the Scriptures.  Besides that, I am not sure that you really have any idea about what they had in mind when they read from the Scriptures.  Is your view of the universe what the ancient Israelites had in mind when they read about it in the Scriptures?  I would hope not, and the universe is easier to understand than the spiritual nature of God. The spirit and the spiritual is not well understood by anyone even today.  We don't even well understand the conscience of mankind today.  But that is a whole different subject.

My point is what we know about God, about Jesus, about the gospel is certainly not limited to what the ancient Israelites had in mind when they read the Scriptures. They didn't even understand much at all about their Messiah.

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #72 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 13:06:06 »

Offline fish153

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #73 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 18:36:14 »
I think "let US make man in OUR image" means far more than one thing. But I believe the "US" and "OUR" gives us a big clue. God is a Trinity of Persons (US, OUR). He made man as a Trinity also: body, soul and spirit. But God never has ONE reason for doing anything. So I think man was created in God's image in several ways. Triune, intelligent(as Wycliffes mentioned), possessing deep emotions, and CREATIVE.

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #73 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 18:36:14 »

Offline TrevorL

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #74 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 22:36:54 »
Greetings again fish123,
Quote from:  fish123
I think "let US make man in OUR image" means far more than one thing. But I believe the "US" and "OUR" gives us a big clue. God is a Trinity of Persons (US, OUR). He made man as a Trinity also: body, soul and spirit. But God never has ONE reason for doing anything. So I think man was created in God's image in several ways. Triune, intelligent(as Wycliffes mentioned), possessing deep emotions, and CREATIVE.
I do not accept the Trinity as I believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I understand the “us” and “our” of Genesis 1:26-27 is God inviting the Angels to participate in the creation of man, and this is confirmed by David’s commentary and summary of Genesis 1:26-27 that man was “made a little lower than the Angels”.

Kind regards
Trevor[/size]

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #74 on: Thu May 20, 2021 - 22:36:54 »



Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #75 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 00:30:15 »
I seriously doubt the ancient Israelites had that in mind when they read (or had that read to them) such passages.  And if they got it wrong, why did NOT God correct that in the various writings from the Prophets?
Hebrew didn't have a word for that at the point in history in which this was written.

That said, the purpose of the passage is largely to establish both the idea AND THE VOCABULARY for it.  Actually, that's one of the great purposes of the Bible that we seem to neglect... so many words that we have come to us from Scriptures.

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #75 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 00:30:15 »

Offline RB

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #76 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 04:36:21 »
Not nearly as rambly as you are when you start in with your Faith of Jesus preaching v. Faith in Jesus. You have yet to provide chapter and verse in your precious KJV that talks of this  in a way to know that is what the author intended
I sense an offended spirit in your reply. You sound like children in a dispute and when one has nothing to say in his defense than he/she resorts to another subject whereby he or she can draw others to their defense so that they would not look like they are defenseless in the argument. I see this all the time among my smaller grandchildren not so much with the older ones. As usual, I see you like a cat among lions~this is what you usually resort to.
Quote from: The lady from PA with Amnesia
Not nearly as rambly as you are when you start in with your Faith of Jesus preaching v. Faith in Jesus. You have yet to provide chapter and verse in your precious KJV that talks of this in a way to know that is what the author intended
Just because a person cannot see a truth does not mean it has not been proven~but I will let that lay since it is not part of its thread.
Quote from: Rella Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 08:22:40
You mean the Holy Scriptures that comprise the 66 books of canon that protestants read, correct? ::reading::

You do exclude any of the gnostic text readings or forbidden books of the bible or the additionional books that are found the the Catholic bible. Correct?

And the only written words you read as truth come from the KJV .... we all know that.
That's what I'm speaking on concerning your method of trying to refute a person that you have no defense against and truly most likely have a little fear in trying~AGAIN, just like two boys on the playground and one goes to other boys trying to seek their help against the one he is up against because he has fear of taking on the task by himself.  A cat among lions would cause this fear.
Quote from: Rella Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 08:22:40
we all know that.....Then your KJV and all other bibles lied  !  Cause if you are right, they are wrong... and if they are right... you do not comprehend.
God speak to us in the manner for us to comprehend truths, yet by KNOWING that he is a Spirit, based upon Jesus' own confession of His Father, we have no problem of following such expressions as eyes, ears, hands feet, wings, etc, etc.
Quote from: Rella Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 08:22:40
Well, I have to stop now so cannot complete replying more. Maybe later... or not.
That's up to you.  I'll try to be gracious as much as you allow me to be.
« Last Edit: Sat May 22, 2021 - 04:41:00 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #77 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 04:53:16 »
Greetings again fish123, I do not accept the Trinity as I believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I understand the “us” and “our” of Genesis 1:26-27 is God inviting the Angels to participate in the creation of man, and this is confirmed by David’s commentary and summary of Genesis 1:26-27 that man was “made a little lower than the Angels”.
Trevor, You must be careful not to say you do not believe in the Trinity~for the scriptures do present a Trinty to us according to their respective work in the salvation of God's elect, even though I agree with you on this: 1. There is ONE Lord God, not three gods. 2. Us and our in Genesis 1: is speaking of God and angels that were JUST created spirits AFTER God's image with knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. The mystery of godliness is the Word at the beginning which was God was made flesh in the person of the Son of God. Jesus will be the ONLY God we shall ever see in the world to come~God who is the Everlasting Father of all things dwells in eternity by Himself, always has, always will!
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 13:14~"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. "
In the redemption of our souls, I have no problem relating to EACH one of the Holy Trinity~even though there's only ONE LORD GOD. Take this to another thread and we shall enlarge on this subject a very important doctrine in the scriptures.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #78 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 05:00:02 »
I do not accept the Trinity as I believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
And on that point you would be wrong. The Great Statement of God's unity in Deut 6.4 is called the Shema and is spoken by devout Jews at least twice every day.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohenu Adonai echad!


IT is also the first statement of the Trinity.  God's name appears 3 times Adonai Elohenu Adonai and is then called "echad' which is translated as ONE. 

HOWEVER, the way Moses used the word echad is NOT how the later OT authors used it. In Genesis 2:24 Moses writes "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh."  Clearly echad does not mean an absolute singularity, but a composite unity composed of various parts.

ETA: 

Clearly Israel took echad to mean a singularity, and during the later writings it is used this way.  And as I said above, when they got it wrong, God would speak thru a prophet and set it straight.  Sometimes they listened, but often they would not.  The issue of an absolute singularity of God was corrected in the prophetic writings, Daniel chapter seven where Daniel has a very disturbing vision.

9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
.......
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
......
28 “At this point the revelation ended. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts were greatly alarming me and my face grew pale, but I kept the matter to myself.”


Disturbing indeed.  Clearly God (as understood by the Jews) was the Ancient of Days on His throne.  But then a second person appears who clearly is also Deity by description.  That really upsets the apple cart.
« Last Edit: Fri May 21, 2021 - 05:17:52 by DaveW »

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #78 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 05:00:02 »

Offline TrevorL

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #79 on: Fri May 21, 2021 - 07:18:14 »
Greetings again RB and DaveW,
Quote from: RB
Trevor, You must be careful not to say you do not believe in the Trinity
I am a very cautious type of person, wanting for my yes to be yes, and my no to be no, and as a result after careful consideration I will continue to say that I do not believe in the Trinity.
Quote from: DaveW
Clearly Israel took echad to mean a singularity, and during the later writings it is used this way.
Yes, I agree with them, as there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father and Deuteronomy 6:4 is stating this. One is one, not three. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Btw this is not a Trinity thread, but a thread about the near return of Jesus to establish the Kingdom as depicted in Isaiah 2:1-5.

Kind regards Trevor

Offline RB

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #80 on: Sat May 22, 2021 - 04:36:02 »
Greetings again RB I am a very cautious type of person, wanting for my yes to be yes, and my no to be no, and as a result after careful consideration I will continue to say that I do not believe in the Trinity.  Yes, I agree with them, as there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father and Deuteronomy 6:4 is stating this. One is one, not three. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Btw this is not a Trinity thread, but a thread about the near return of Jesus to establish the Kingdom as depicted in Isaiah 2:1-5
You are correct this is not a trinity thread, so would "you" start one so you and I can talk. Use 2nd Corinthians 13:14 as a starter.

There has to be a biblical reason and a sense that can be use biblical as to why Paul said what he did, if there is no sense in which we can understand the Trinity as Paul use it.

We just cannot ignore such scriptures.  RB
« Last Edit: Sat May 22, 2021 - 04:38:27 by RB »

Offline TrevorL

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #81 on: Sat May 22, 2021 - 07:56:58 »
Greetings again RB,
Quote from: RB
You are correct this is not a trinity thread, so would "you" start one so you and I can talk. Use 2nd Corinthians 13:14 as a starter.
No, I am not willing to start at 2 Corinthians 13:14. I have started a thread titled “The Yahweh Name”, with two posts and my aim is initially to establish what I consider the teaching of the Bible concerning the One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God. I am interested in discussing some of the verses and ideas that I have mentioned in these two posts and possibly how some of these ideas help to understand some passages in the NT.
Kind regards Trevor

Offline Rella

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #82 on: Sat May 22, 2021 - 15:53:06 »
Greetings again RB and DaveW, I am a very cautious type of person, wanting for my yes to be yes, and my no to be no, and as a result after careful consideration I will continue to say that I do not believe in the Trinity.



It is time for you to step up and tell us all who/what you believe the Holy Spirit is and what their purpose is.

Then explain why Mathew 28:19 says what it says the way it does.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Or

1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

WHO IS THAT HOLY GHOST ENTITY?????

And since you do not believe He..... HA HA HA  ... might just be a female entity... Even though the Holy Spirit is referred to in the masculine throughout the New Testament, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral. The Hebrew word for "spirit", ruach is feminine in Genesis 1:2....  is one with the others as in 1 John 5-7 shall we assume this verse is a lie? And if it is a lie what other verses are also incorrect in that book??

At the very least you owe all who read your ideas an real explanation beyond "I am a very cautious type of person, wanting for my yes to be yes, and my no to be no, and as a result after careful consideration I will continue to say that I do not believe in the Trinity"...because that is no explanation at all

Offline Rella

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Re: The Vision of Isaiah 2:1-5 Soon to be Fulfilled
« Reply #83 on: Sat May 22, 2021 - 16:00:22 »
  I'll try to be gracious as much as you allow me to be.

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl