Most Trinitarians believe that Jesus is not God the Father. You may be the exception. I believe that Jesus is the spiritual father of the age to come.[/font][/size]
Greetings Trevor~I never
said that Jesus was God the Father, for that's impossible~100% man which Jesus was
shown us that God who is a Spirit....always has been and always will be
, is the Father of Jesus of Nazareth. That being said, by the very fact that Jesus was begotten NOT through Adam's posterity, but the HIGHEST was is Father conceive by him, makes him FULL DEITY
as well as full humanity being made in the likeness of sinful flesh. Jesus was God, but God was not the MAN Jesus of Nazareth!
This is the mystery of godliness just as Paul said:
1st Timothy 3:16~"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Seen of angels~
could only mean seen of them for the FIRST TIME EVER
in the person of His Son JESUS CHRIST~who was the EXPRESS IMAGE of God, in righteousness, knowledge, and wisdom and TRUE HOLINESS. When folks saw Jesus, they saw God in human flesh~when John laid his head upon his beast, he was laying his head upon the Everlasting father of ALL THINGS. Well, let us let John tell us in his own words:
1st John 1:1-3~"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
'Was from the beginning
~Jesus being ONE with his Father in their ETERNAL DEITY/NATURE/GLORY, was manifested in due time in the person of Jesus of Nazareth when the Word which was God from the beginning (or, before all things) joined Himself to the tabernacle of the Son of God and preached unto both Jews and Gentiles and was believed on in the world, and then received up into glory to be with his Father from the bosom from whence he came.
Jesus was born a human, the Son of God. He was not born as a God or a God/man, no matter how much you use the term “mystery”.
Agreed, Jesus was 100% human.
Jesus of Nazareth is the complex Person of God and man~He possesses both complete natures. This point is very important to properly understand God’s record of His Son Jesus Christ. The attributes of one nature are often ascribed to a name derived from the other nature. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, so His Person involves divine and human characteristics. Jesus Christ fully experienced all the aspects of human growth, weakness, and temptation. Jesus Christ, referred to as God, a Spirit, purchased the church with His BLOOD (Acts 20:28). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, DIED (Galatians 2:20). But only His humanity died (Ist Tim 1:17; 6:16). Jesus, the Son of man, was OMNIPRESENT (John 3:13). Only His Deity could be so (Jeremiah 23:24). Jesus, the Son of man, WAS WITH GOD (John 6:62). Only His divinity could be so (John 1:1). Jesus, the Son, is SUBJECT TO GOD (Ist Corinthians 1:28). Only His humanity will be subject to God. Jesus, the Son, had a MOTHER NAMED MARY (Matthew 1:21). Mary is not the mother of God! Jesus claimed to be BEFORE ABRAHAM (John 8:58). Only His Deity was eternal (Micah 5:2). Jesus grew in WISDOM AND STATURE (Luke 2:52). Only His humanity was ignorant (Colossians 2:3). Jesus slept (Mark 4:38), but only in His humanity; for His Deity could not sleep (Psalm 121:4). Jesus thirsted, ate, and did all the things human nature does, but which Deity cannot do, or need to do.
If you reject these truths, you reject the record God has given of his Son, a very dangerous place to put yourself into.
Please read and consider all of John 10:30-36 where Jesus discusses the Judges who were called “Gods” or “Elohim” and Jesus statement in John 10:36 where he claims to be the Son of God, not God.
Okay, let us do so:
John 10:30-36~"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
These scriptures teach us~ God the Father and Jesus Christ were one in nature, attributes, operations, purpose, unity, etc. Glory! The preceding context indicates a unity and oneness in the plan and power of redemption (10:28-29). By being one in nature and attributes, Jesus declared Himself to be God like the Father, and the monotheistic Jews understood Him in exactly that sense (John 10:31,33), which Jesus did not correct or alter, but instead pursued their choice of terminology out of their own Law (John 10:34-36).Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him~
Blasphemy is a terrible crime, and the Jews rabidly defended God’s glory … only in some respects! Though none of the accusations stuck against Jesus, they chose Barabbas to be freed instead. Consider their rules of oaths, which valued the temple’s gold above the temple (Matthew 23:16-17). Religionists are the greatest enemies of Shepherd and sheep (Isaiah 66:5; John 15:20; 16:2; Revelation 17:1-6).Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?~
How could the Jews consider stoning a prophet with such miracles, yea, greater than any prophet! Jesus confronted them about the stupidity of stoning Him in light of prodigious miracles from God. In this chapter, Jesus continues to bring up Jehovah
as His Father, further provoking them to wrath, not unlike His hard sayings about bread from heaven and eating and drinking Him in John 6.The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.~
The Jews recognized (and did not recognize) His argument’s force, so they trumped up blasphemy. There are not two charges or accusations here, but rather one of blasphemy and the details of it. How did Jesus make Himself God?
By declaring a unity of nature (10:30), and by declaring Himself the Son of God (9:35-38 cp Isaiah 9:6 cp Isaiah 7:14). He did not declare His eternal, divine sonship!Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?~
While with the blind man, Jesus had declared in their hearing that He was the Son of God (9:35-38). It is this claim, a basic axiom of our faith, which Jesus will defend by this line of reasoning (10:36). He appealed to Psalm 82:6, where the Psalmist penned these words about Israel’s civil rulers, though there are other places as well where God gave the name of gods to rulers (Psalms 82:1; 138:1; Exodus 22:28). When dealing with persons that profess faith in scripture, use those scriptures against their errors.If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;~
Those Jehovah called gods in Psalm 82:6 received Moses’ Law for their official magisterial conduct. The Law identified, ordained, and charged Israel’s magistrates with their duties and penalties. They received the Law of God from another, therefore they were not truly legislators themselves. They needed the scripture as much as the populace to know God’s will for their own lives. Receiving God’s word from another is very inferior to Christ~ Legislator, Master, and Judge! John the Baptist, the greatest man born of women, received the word of God from God (Luke 3:2). The scripture cannot be broken, in that a word found there is the right word and may be argued from. If the Bible calls magistrates gods, then that exact term is absolutely right and justified for them. If it is rightly used for those in the low office of magistrate, then certainly so for greater offices.
It cannot be blasphemy
for the Messiah to use the terminology due to His far superior office! We justly use this verse two ways to support our trust in the KJV as inspired and preserved scripture. Jesus declared and showed the nature of scripture ~it is inspired at the word level
and may be argued from the word level for doctrine, thus condemning paraphrases and other word changes, as these further examples show. If we can show internal contradictions in a “Bible,” then it is not scripture, for scripture cannot be broken at even the word level. What about contradictions in the KJV?Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?~ If you justify the title gods for mere civil magistrates, why do you fault me with a superior office?
The word of God did not come to Jesus as to gods and John (10:34-35), He was the Word of God!
Almighty God, the LORD Jehovah, set Jesus of Nazareth apart for an office far greater
! He was sent into the world: He was not in the world as a mere man with scripture given to Him. What was so wrong with His title Son of God, since the Jews allowed mere rules a similar name?
Thus, your own argument is proven to be invalid as a proof text for your erroneous doctrine.
A little long yet, you ask for us to consider John 10:30-36 and we did, and it only shows your error to be greater, not less.