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Online RB

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Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« on: Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 14:55:04 »
But "many religious voices" engage in the action of convincing others that this is not true, by using a few of God's Words. That man has no choice, that this Same Christ placed the burdens of HIS Voice on men knowing full well they were not born with the God given ability to comply. Then killed them when they didn't comply. Basically working to convince others that this Christ is a liar.

The Christ says.

Matt. 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

But "many religious voices" engage in the action of convincing people, using some of God's Word, that Children are born evil, and do not have the capacity to "Humble Themselves". That it is a deception for Jesus to even say "Humble themselves", because a child is not born with the God given capacity to choose to humble themselves or to choose Good. That God must first "choose" this child, based on nothing the child does, and give it the capacity to humble themselves. Thus again, implying that this Christ is lying to us.

The Christ says.

 Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

But "many religious voices" engage in the action of convincing people that this can not be true by twisting a few of God's Words. That man does not have the God given capacity to even come after the Christ, unless God first creates in this man the capacity. And that man can not "Choose" Jesus over the other religious voices out there, not to mention to deny themselves, because the Christ Commanded that we "Seek ye first the Kingdom of heaven" but did not place the capacity to do so in men. Implying once again, that Jesus is the deceiver, just as the serpent convinced Eve
.
Bringing GB's post here to try whose spirit is of God, and who are false prophets per the word of God.

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Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« on: Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 14:55:04 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #1 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 07:04:10 »
Be very careful here.  Wrongly interpreting God's word does not necessarily indicate a false prophet.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #2 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 12:16:54 »
Bringing GB's post here to try whose spirit is of God, and who are false prophets per the word of God.

Let's start out by not omitting parts of my reply regarding Deception. It's an old tactic, but is very effective in creating or controlling the Narrative.

Quote
Deception; NOUN,  "the action of deceiving someone"

Deceive; Greek "Planao" (To cause to) roam (from safely, truth or virtue) :- Go astray, deceive, Err, Seduce, wander, be out of the way.

The first Biblical Example of deceiving someone was the serpent who used some of God's Word to set Eve at ease, then caused her to roam from safety and go astray by listening and "Doing" what it instructed and rejecting what God instructed. To do this, the serpent used some of God's Word to convince Eve that "God knows" that HIS Commandment made Eve Blind. And only by rejecting the Commandment of God will she be able to truly see. This was, of course, a lie.

The examples of deception that are promoted by other religious voices, who also use parts of God's Word, are countless.

I will list just a few so as not to let you highjack the thread by making your statements and asking the question you asked.

The Christ says.

 Duet. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 "That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days:"

But "many religious voices" engage in the action of convincing others that this is not true, by using a few of God's Words. That man has no choice, that this Same Christ placed the burdens of HIS Voice on men knowing full well they were not born with the God given ability to comply. Then killed them when they didn't comply. Basically working to convince others that this Christ is a liar.

The Christ says.

Matt. 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

But "many religious voices" engage in the action of convincing people, using some of God's Word, that Children are born evil, and do not have the capacity to "Humble Themselves". That it is a deception for Jesus to even say "Humble themselves", because a child is not born with the God given capacity to choose to humble themselves or to choose Good. That God must first "choose" this child, based on nothing the child does, and give it the capacity to humble themselves. Thus again, implying that this Christ is lying to us.

The Christ says.

 Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

But "many religious voices" engage in the action of convincing people that this can not be true by twisting a few of God's Words. That man does not have the God given capacity to even come after the Christ, unless God first creates in this man the capacity. And that man can not "Choose" Jesus over the other religious voices out there, not to mention to deny themselves, because the Christ Commanded that we "Seek ye first the Kingdom of heaven" but did not place the capacity to do so in men. Implying once again, that Jesus is the deceiver, just as the serpent convinced Eve.

There are countless more examples from "many religious voices", but this is enough to discern your preaching.

The topic is "forgive to be forgiven". Why does God need to forgive men for sin, that you preach HE didn't give them the capacity or tools to resist? And am I to use your preaching as a guide to whom I will forgive and who I will not, based on nothing the offender does, rather, by some invisible lottery I created?

It is written;

IS. 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God knows the End from the Beginning. He created time itself. He holds time in His hand like a snow globe. Everything every man has ever done in his life, HE has already seen. Every Choice, Every move. Everything!!!!

Matt. 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

This is my belief, based on the writings of the Law and Prophets, and of the Lord's Christ.

So when this same God tells me "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live". I believe Him.

He has already given man this choice, every man that has ever lived has already been given this "Choice" in God's Realm. We don't know, that is why He gives us all the same instruction. "today if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts".

And this same God chose "preaching" as the medium for distributing this choice. And had a Book written to define the choice and give us insight into the consequences of either choice. As Paul teaches.

1 Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, (chose Death) as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Those who chose life, God chose to save, write their names in the Book of Life, and joined with them Spiritually to preserve them.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. (Choose Life) 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And again;

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: (Choose Life) and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

God already knows who will receive HIS Words, and "DO" them, from the moment He created time because HE sees the End from the Beginning. He has already given men the choice HE promised, and they have already made the choice in HIS Realm. We could no longer stop who HE has chosen to save, than we could stop the future which HE has already seen.

But many religious voices don't believe God when HE tells men He lays before them life and death. They preach that God Chooses men based on no choice that they made? That any reference to "choosing" is not choosing at all, but election based on some invisible, unknown, selection process. And of course, each one of these religious men who promote this religion, was selected. While those who disagree with their religion, and test the spirits as instructed, are heretics and liars.

This is my understanding, and the reason why I "take heed" of "many" religious men, who come in Christ's Name, including you, that promote the "no choice" religion.

There is a truth Red. Either God is true, and ALL HIS Words are to be trusted, or the serpent is true, and some of God's Words are beggarly elements that makes one Blind.



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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #2 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 12:16:54 »

Online RB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #3 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 15:03:31 »
Be very careful here.  Wrongly interpreting God's word does not necessarily indicate a false prophet.
4WD, but when you straight up reject certain fundamental doctrines of the scriptures then you are displaying traits of a false prophet~The Deity of Jesus Christ is the main one~and others will PROVE that at least one is preaching another gospel, which may not prove one false, but certainly in serious error.

Thank you for your concern and I'm HEARING and heeding your godly concerns.  You need to speak directly to GB, for he did not start out heeding your concerns:
Quote from: GB on: Today at 12:16:54
Let's start out by not omitting parts of my reply regarding Deception. It's an old tactic, but is very effective in creating or controlling the Narrative.
I only quoted what I did for BREVITY, nothing more~and can be seen in that I MADE NO COMMENTS on what I quoted. I did what I did just to get the ball rolling in his direction. Then I trust by God's help to shove it down his throat spiritually speaking. I'm not trying to be boastful or mean, but some men's mouths must be stopped.
Quote from: Paul
Titus 1:10,11~"For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake."
« Last Edit: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 15:16:47 by RB »

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #3 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 15:03:31 »
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Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #4 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 16:50:56 »
There is a truth Red. Either God is true, and ALL HIS Words are to be trusted.....
Of course God is true and His words are to be trusted; but that says not one thing about any of your words.  Or my words or RB's words or anyone else's words save the divinely inspired authors of God's written word.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #4 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 16:50:56 »



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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #5 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:05:13 »
RB is aiming this at me is my guess, so I will reply, using some scripture.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (This is my confession.)

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. -1Jhn.4:2,3

and

The Elder to the choice Kyria, and to her children, whom I love in truth, and not I only, but also all those having known the truth, because of the truth that is remaining in us, and with us shall be to the age, there shall be with you grace, kindness, peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

I rejoiced exceedingly that I have found of thy children walking in truth, even as a command we did receive from the Father; and now I beseech thee, Kyria, not as writing to thee a new command, but which we had from the beginning, that we may love one another, and this is the love, that we may walk according to His commands; this is the command, even as ye did hear from the beginning, that in it ye may walk,

because many leading astray did enter into the world, who are not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh; this one is he who is leading astray, and the antichrist.

See to yourselves that ye may not lose the things that we wrought, but a full reward may receive; every one who is transgressing, and is not remaining in the teaching of the Christ, hath not God; he who is remaining in the teaching of the Christ, this one hath both the Father and the Son; if any one doth come unto you, and this teaching doth not bear, receive him not into the house, and say not to him, ‘Hail!’ for he who is saying to him, ‘Hail,’ hath fellowship with his evil works"
  -2Jhn. 1-11

and Jesus answered him -- 'The first of all the commands is, Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one; -Mark 12:29


"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.
Before Me, no god was formed, and none will come after Me.
-Isa.43:10


I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: -Isa.45:5


Blessed be God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; -2Cor.1:3


He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  My confession is the very same as Peters.



For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #5 on: Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:05:13 »

Online RB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #6 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 04:13:35 »
RB is aiming this at me is my guess, so I will reply, using some scripture.
BTR, no I did not even have you on my mind when posting my post, I was actually thinking of GB~but as I said in another post yesterday, you and he are very close on your teaching concerning the deity of Jesus Christ~yet, you truly have not said enough, or I have not read enough from you, to know your position clearly, but GB has and it is pure heresy~but what I have read you seem very close to him.

Now, concerning your post (Reply #5)~ it is not clear exactly the points you want to make to state your position, maybe you can try again.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #7 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 05:07:01 »
“YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS;
            YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
            AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;



"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor,
so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

saying,
            “I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,
            IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

And again,
            “I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”
            And again,
            “BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.
-Heb.2

God has given him. Truth is Jesus is not God, he is Gods first born Son of the new creation, the first born of many brothers. We who come after are born again through Christ.

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all' -1Tim.2

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 06:19:38 »
John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2  He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.



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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #8 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 06:19:38 »

Offline soterion

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #9 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 06:58:35 »
Titus 2:13.
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Peter 1:1.
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Only God can create:

John 1:1-3.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

Colossians 1:15-16.
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

God was alone when He created all things:

Isaiah 44:24.
Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?);

Offline GB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #10 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:01:54 »
Of course God is true and His words are to be trusted; but that says not one thing about any of your words.  Or my words or RB's words or anyone else's words save the divinely inspired authors of God's written word.

Yes, "Of course God is true and His words are to be trusted".

Isn't that the very reason why both you and I disagree with much of Red's preaching? In this circumstance we are speaking of choice and it's relationship with election. Other times it is "Total Depravity".

We agree on Total Depravity because of the Word of God which teaches against it.

And I know you don't agree with Red and Michael where their "No Choice" religious views are concerned.

What part of the post of mine that you just replied to is Scripturally wrong, in your view?






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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #11 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:14:49 »
Titus 2:13.
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Peter 1:1.
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Only God can create:

John 1:1-3.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

Colossians 1:15-16.
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

God was alone when He created all things:

Isaiah 44:24.
Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?);

IS. 44:5 One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.



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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #12 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:29:33 »
IS. 44:5 One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
What does that mean to you that "beside me there is no God"? Do you think that means that only the Father and not the Son nor the Holy Spirit is God?

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #13 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:33:35 »
4WD, but when you straight up reject certain fundamental doctrines of the scriptures then you are displaying traits of a false prophet~The Deity of Jesus Christ is the main one~and others will PROVE that at least one is preaching another gospel, which may not prove one false, but certainly in serious error.
You think that I reject the Deity of Jesus Christ ? ?  Where in any of my posts here would come to such an absurd idea?

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #14 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:43:04 »
What does that mean to you that "beside me there is no God"? Do you think that means that only the Father and not the Son nor the Holy Spirit is God?

Thanks for asking 4WD.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;

In my understanding, both the Christ, the King of Israel, and HIS Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, which I believe to be HIS Father who sent Him to create time and the heavens and earth we all see, are both telling us the same thing. That the Word of God which became Flesh, is our God and there is no other.

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"

I see many other verses which confirm this understanding, including but not limited to John 1.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
 

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #15 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:56:04 »
I am not sure but I think you are saying that you reject the traditional concept of the Trinity.  Is that right?

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #16 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:04:22 »
You think that I reject the Deity of Jesus Christ ? ?  Where in any of my posts here would come to such an absurd idea?

He isn't referring to you 4WD. He is lashing out at me because I called him out on his religion which preaches Jesus didn't sin because He was God and God can't sin. I don't believe the Word of God came to earth as God, but as a man in all things as HIS Brethren.

 But then, I don't believe God commanded folks to do what they have no capacity to do, then killed them for not doing it either.

Is. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Heb. 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

God didn't make Jesus obey HIM, Jesus learned to obey Him. We can learn too, "IF" we do as He instructs, as He did as His Father instructed.

If this trust in God makes me a heretic, I am in good company, as the White Washed Walls of His time thought He was a heretic as well.




Offline GB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #17 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:21:25 »
I am not sure but I think you are saying that you reject the traditional concept of the Trinity.  Is that right?

I really don't believe God had this Scriptures written to promote any religious tradition.

 

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #18 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 12:31:03 »
I really don't believe God had this Scriptures written to promote any religious tradition.
Nice dodge.

So how about these words from Paul to Timothy?

2Th 3:5  May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ.
2Th 3:6  Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


I guess there are traditions and then there are traditions.  Seems you may be wrong yet again. But aside from that, Are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit one; are they three?  Are they God?  What you do think?  And please it is a simple question.  I am looking for an answer, I am asking what, not necessarily why, you believe as you do.  So please spare me your typical line after line after line of verbal wanderings and meanderings.

Offline GB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #19 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 13:37:48 »
Nice dodge.

So how about these words from Paul to Timothy?

2Th 3:5  May the Lord direct your hearts to the love of God and to the steadfastness of Christ.
2Th 3:6  Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.


I guess there are traditions and then there are traditions.  Seems you may be wrong yet again. But aside from that, Are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit one; are they three?  Are they God?  What you do think?  And please it is a simple question.  I am looking for an answer, I am asking what, not necessarily why, you believe as you do.  So please spare me your typical line after line after line of verbal wanderings and meanderings.

I didn't dodge at all. I told you my true belief. I don't think God had IS. 44 written to promote some religious tradition.

Do I believe that the King of Israel acts apart from the Lord of Hosts? NO, I do not.

Do I believe their Words, Thoughts, Spirit, Judgments, are ONE. Yes. I do.

Do I believe that their Words are a separate entity acting "apart" from their Spiritual Body? No, I don't.

Do I believe their Spirit is a separate entity acting "Apart" from their Spiritual Body? No I don't.

Let me ask you a question.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Is this Holy Ghost a different entity than this one?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Or is this Spirit of truth a different entity from the following?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

In your religion, is the King of Israel, Holy Ghost, Spirit of Truth, and HIS FATHER who makes their abode with this man different, separate entities? Or are they all ONE GOD?











Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #20 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 16:48:32 »
I didn't dodge at all. I told you my true belief. I don't think God had IS. 44 written to promote some religious tradition.
Not even Judaism or Christianity?  Interesting.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #21 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 17:17:47 »
You think that I reject the Deity of Jesus Christ ? ?  Where in any of my posts here would come to such an absurd idea?
4WD, I was not speaking about you when I said:
Quote
4WD, but when you straight up reject certain fundamental doctrines of the scriptures then you are displaying traits of a false prophet~The Deity of Jesus Christ is the main one~and others will PROVE that at least one is preaching another gospel, which may not prove one false, but certainly in serious error.
YOU in my sentence is referring to GB, not you. You graciously warned us to be careful when posting~and I was only telling you that some men straight up reject certain fundamentals doctrines of the faith which GB does over and over again. I see where I could have made myself plainer than I did, sorry. I KNOW that you believe that God was manifest in human flesh per 1st Timothy 3:16 and many other scriptures which GB rejects and so does BTR. I have thought that maybe GB and BTR are one and the same, but I'm not going to waste time proving that, for it really makes no difference~ they are of the same spirit which is an antichrist against Jesus Christ and his Sonship being a complex person~FULLY man, and fully God. You CANNOT reject that and be of God. Jesus was BOTH the Son of Man and the ONLY begotten Son of God..... THEREFORE, making him equal with God in his Godhead! Even the wicked Pharisees understood the ramifications of being the ONLY begotten Son of God, yet GB does not!
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST the TRUE God and eternal life
John 10:30-32~I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
He was BOTH!

I'm very busy at the moment but may try to make a post of two before leaving for Atlanta.
« Last Edit: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 17:38:15 by RB »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #22 on: Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 23:53:50 »
What spirit teach that salvation is by God's grace and by the works of man?
What spirit teach that regeneration is not the sole work of God but also that of man?
What spirit teach that God's salvation (election of people to be His people) is not of His free and sovereign will and purpose, is not what God had determined beforehand (predestined) to happen, but is of the elect's faith, even of the elect's faith and works?

Is it not the spirit of lies?
Is it not the spirit of arrogance and pride?
Is it not the spirit of that of a carnal mind?
Is it not the spirit that is NOT of God?

Since Christians have the spirit of Christ, and are brothers in Christ, and so have the one and same Holy Spirit in them, I believe all true Christians agree that such spirit is NOT of God, and is the spirit of lies, arrogance and pride, and that of a carnal mind.

What spirit is it that teaches not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?

Every spirit that confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and is that spirit of antichrist.

Who are these spirit? Are they those who teach that Jesus is not man (flesh), but is God or a god? Are they those who teach that Jesus is not man (flesh), but is spirit? We have to know what John meant by "come in the flesh".

Some teach that Jesus is man, of flesh and blood, just like any one of us. And that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but is not God nor is a god. Is this spirit, of the antiChrist?

Some teach that Jesus is man, of flesh and blood, just like any one of us. And that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and is a god, but is not God. Is this spirit, of the antiChrist?

Some teach that Jesus is man, of flesh and blood, just like any one of us. And that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and is not only man but is also God. Is this spirit, of the antiChrist?
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 01:14:31 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #23 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 01:39:07 »
Thanks for asking 4WD.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;

In my understanding, both the Christ, the King of Israel, and HIS Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, which I believe to be HIS Father who sent Him to create time and the heavens and earth we all see, are both telling us the same thing. That the Word of God which became Flesh, is our God and there is no other."I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"

I see many other verses which confirm this understanding, including but not limited to John 1.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Isaiah 44:6 speaks only of the LORD, the King of Israel, and his redeemer. Isaiah is speaking about the LORD (YHWH, YHVH), without identification of the person of Christ nor of the Father. We must take it as the text have it.

I have to comment on what you teach that the Father sent Christ to create time and the heavens and earth. No scriptures say anything to the effect of what you teach there, that Christ was sent to create by the Father.

I'm glad to know from you that you believe that the Word, that is, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God, and is your God, and that there is no other God.

I want to clarify from you a couple of things though.

One, in your belief, do you believe that the one and only God is triune in nature? If not, can you tell us what you believe is the nature of God per your understanding of the revelation in scriptures?

Second, you said "the Word of God which became Flesh, is our God....". When the Word of God became flesh, in your belief, did He ceased to be God by that?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #24 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 01:51:44 »
Be very careful here.  Wrongly interpreting God's word does not necessarily indicate a false prophet.

I agree.

I have this question to you 4WD, in your opinion, who would be the ultimate judge, as to who interprets God's words correctly and who does not?

If you say for example, that one who interprets scriptures, that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, is a wrong interpretation, would you want him to believe what you believe is the right interpretation? 
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 01:55:42 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #25 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 02:04:13 »
It is written;

IS. 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

God knows the End from the Beginning. He created time itself. He holds time in His hand like a snow globe. Everything every man has ever done in his life, HE has already seen. Every Choice, Every move. Everything!!!!

Had God only seen GB? Does not the scriptures you quoted say "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #26 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 02:13:00 »
God already knows who will receive HIS Words, and "DO" them, from the moment He created time because HE sees the End from the Beginning. He has already given men the choice HE promised, and they have already made the choice in HIS Realm. We could no longer stop who HE has chosen to save, than we could stop the future which HE has already seen.

A question for you to answer, not dodge nor ignore.

What future you say did God had already seen? Was it a random future or was it a future that is according to His counsel and pleasure?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #27 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 03:19:09 »
He isn't referring to you 4WD. He is lashing out at me because I called him out on his religion which preaches Jesus didn't sin because He was God and God can't sin. I don't believe the Word of God came to earth as God, but as a man in all things as HIS Brethren.

For sure, Jesus, in His deity, could not sin and therefore didn't sin. But in His humanity, He did not sin because He was obedient to the will of God.

Now, did the eternal Word ceased to be God when He became flesh? Of course not. 

Quote from: GB
But then, I don't believe God commanded folks to do what they have no capacity to do, then killed them for not doing it either.

Of course God did not do that, killing them for not doing what they are not capable of doing. God kills them exactly for what they were capable of doing and have in fact done. God kills them whom he killed because He has every right to do so, for He killed them by reason of their wickedness, transgression, uncleanness, corruption. For the wages of sin is death.   

Quote from: GB
Is. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Heb. 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

God didn't make Jesus obey HIM, Jesus learned to obey Him. We can learn too, "IF" we do as He instructs, as He did as His Father instructed.

If this trust in God makes me a heretic, I am in good company, as the White Washed Walls of His time thought He was a heretic as well.

It is God's counsel and sovereign will that Jesus obey Him. And if it is, then that is what will take place. But in all that, God did not force Jesus to obey Him.

God, in bringing about whatsoever His hand and His counsel determined beforehand should happen, He does so by the riches of His wisdom and knowledge, in ways, to us, are unfathomable and untraceable.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 03:22:18 by Michael2012 »

Online RB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #28 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 03:41:39 »
“YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS;
            YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
            AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;



"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor,
so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

saying,
            “I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,
            IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

And again,
            “I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”
            And again,
            “BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.
-Heb.2
Greetings BTR~so what is your point? We understand these scriptures perfectly as they are speaking of Jesus' humanity as the Son of Man. It truly is not that difficult~all one needs to do in order to have a perfect "flow of truth" (without which, one cannot be in possession of THE TRUTH) from one scripture to another is simply to put the proper sense to them that would allow them to be consistent all through the word of God from OT to NT.
Quote from: BTR Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 05:07:01
Truth is Jesus is not God, he is Gods first born Son of the new creation, the first born of many brothers.
Red highlights are mine for exposure of the spirit of error, which is the spirit of antichrist. That is not the truth, but a blasphemous confession against the testimony of the word of God. Jesus was indeed God's firstborn in the manner in which he was conceived by the power of the Highest,  so, in THAT SENSE, Jesus was God's firstborn Son. But, by being God's Son in that sense he shares the same Godhead attributes as his Father does.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
John 1:18~"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
By the scriptural truth that Jesus IS in the bosom (PRESENT TENSE) of the Father from everlasting to everlasting MAKES HIM GOD in the FLESH~yea he is ONE WITH HIM in his Divine nature~THEREBY, possessing ALL of God's Infinite attributes......NO MAN can claim this honor but Jesus Christ alone.
Quote from: John
John 5:17,18~"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
The Jews understood that when Jesus said that God was his Father, they KNEW that that meant he was EQUAL TO GOD as far as his DIVINE NATURE being ONE with God who IS an ETERNAL SPIRIT and that will NEVER change, IMPOSSIBLE. The only God we shall ever see will be JESUS CHRIST his Holy Son. So many scriptures can testify to this truth. Jesus WAS GOD, but God was NOT Jesus~for he is a Spirit that NO man OR angels will ever see or COULD SEE! His Holy Son is the very EXPRESS IMAGE of who God IS.
Quote from: GB Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 05:07:01
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all' -1Tim.2
No problem~as far as his HUMANITY GOES~ Jesus in the work of redemption that the Godhead undertook to do on the behalf of God's elect~ Jesus is our mediator between us and God who is a Spirit that inhabiteth eternity!   

This is my favorite doctrine in all of the word of God to discuss and I think I know this truth very well and can defend it according to the testimony of the holy scriptures.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:00:50 by RB »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #29 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 03:42:57 »
I didn't dodge at all. I told you my true belief. I don't think God had IS. 44 written to promote some religious tradition.

Do I believe that the King of Israel acts apart from the Lord of Hosts? NO, I do not.

Do I believe their Words, Thoughts, Spirit, Judgments, are ONE. Yes. I do.

Do I believe that their Words are a separate entity acting "apart" from their Spiritual Body? No, I don't.

Do I believe their Spirit is a separate entity acting "Apart" from their Spiritual Body? No I don't.

Let me ask you a question.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Is this Holy Ghost a different entity than this one?

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Or is this Spirit of truth a different entity from the following?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

In your religion, is the King of Israel, Holy Ghost, Spirit of Truth, and HIS FATHER who makes their abode with this man different, separate entities? Or are they all ONE GOD?
No they are not separate entities or beings.

I believe that there is only one God and that He is a trinity ~ one being, 3 persons (Father, Word (Son), Holy Spirit).

How about you? Is your belief this: that there is one God, a singular divine Spirit, who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? If not, can you state your belief in your own direct and simple words?

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #30 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:14:10 »
No they are not separate entities or beings.

I believe that there is only one God and that He is a trinity ~ one being, 3 persons (Father, Word (Son), Holy Spirit).

How about you? Is your belief this: that there is one God, a singular divine Spirit, who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? If not, can you state your belief in your own direct and simple words?
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate spiritual beings. They are the one God.  Your problem here is that you, and all the rest of us, really have no basis to know and understand the spiritual realm.  We simply have no experience in the physical world to tell us anything about the spiritual world.  We only have what God in His written revelation has told us.  And God has told us in many ways that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are indeed three separate spiritual beings.  It is not only a manifestation in three different ways; it is three separate spiritual beings that constitute the one true God.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #31 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:41:37 »
"Men of Israel, listen to these words:
Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which
{God performed through Him} in your midst, just as you yourselves know--
-Acts 2:22


“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. -Jhn.14:1

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #32 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 08:06:09 »
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate spiritual beings. They are the one God.  Your problem here is that you, and all the rest of us, really have no basis to know and understand the spiritual realm.  We simply have no experience in the physical world to tell us anything about the spiritual world.  We only have what God in His written revelation has told us.  And God has told us in many ways that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are indeed three separate spiritual beings.  It is not only a manifestation in three different ways; it is three separate spiritual beings that constitute the one true God.

We differ then, because for me, the Father, the Word (Son), the Holy Spirit, are not three separate beings, but are the three persons of the one God, distinct persons not distinct beings.

Yes, I acknowledge the situation we are in, that we only have what God in His written revelation has told us.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #33 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 08:22:38 »
...distinct persons not distinct beings....
What does that mean?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #34 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 08:36:13 »
Quote from: Michael
...distinct persons not distinct beings...
What does that mean?

I and you, each are one being and have one person.

God is one being and have 3 distinct persons.

 

     
anything