Author Topic: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1  (Read 5756 times)

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Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #35 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 08:40:03 »
What does that mean?


I and you, each are one being and have one person.

God is one being and have 3 distinct persons.
Are you sure that God is not one person and have 3 distinct beings?

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #35 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 08:40:03 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #36 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 08:52:28 »
Are you sure that God is not one person and have 3 distinct beings?

Yes, I believe that God is not one person and have 3 distinct beings. For if He were three distinct beings, then have three Gods. But far more than that, is because  scriptures says that there is only one God, that is, one supreme divine being.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #37 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 09:48:22 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105627.msg1055158394#msg1055158394 date=1584519549]


Quote
Now, did the eternal Word ceased to be God when He became flesh? Of course not. 

Heb. 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

If HE came to earth as God, and continued being God as you and Red preach, then who is the Him that He prayed to with tears who was able to save him from Death?


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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #37 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 09:48:22 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #38 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:01:16 »
Yes, I believe that God is not one person and have 3 distinct beings. For if He were three distinct beings, then have three Gods. But far more than that, is because  scriptures says that there is only one God, that is, one supreme divine being.
Perhaps you could share your insights on the difference between a spiritual being and a spiritual person.  I really have never seen that spiritual distinction in the Bible.  Perhaps I missed it.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #38 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:01:16 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #39 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:06:47 »

If HE came to earth as God, and continued being God as you and Red preach, then who is the Him that He prayed to with tears who was able to save him from Death?
God the Son prayed to God the Father.  Or do you not recognized God the Son?  How about God the Holy Spirit?

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #39 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:06:47 »



Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #40 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:10:07 »
Heb. 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

If HE came to earth as God, and continued being God as you and Red preach, then who is the Him that He prayed to with tears who was able to save him from Death?

So, you believe that the eternal God can cease to be God? Do you hear that GB?

As to your question, Jesus prayed to God, the Father.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #40 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:10:07 »

Online GB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #41 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:10:24 »
Thanks for asking 4WD.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;

In my understanding, both the Christ, the King of Israel, and HIS Redeemer, the Lord of Hosts, which I believe to be HIS Father who sent Him to create time and the heavens and earth we all see, are both telling us the same thing. That the Word of God which became Flesh, is our God and there is no other.

"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"

I see many other verses which confirm this understanding, including but not limited to John 1.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

I have made an Error in the context of IS. 44. that was shown to me by a Brother.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;

I know Jesus, King of Israel, the Son of God, prayed to and was raised from the dead by His Father. But this verse is not speaking to this relationship between the Father and the Son, rather, Isaiah is speaking about Israel and his redeemer, the Lord of Hosts.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his (Israel's) redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Thank you Brother for correcting me on this.








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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #42 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:22:56 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105627.msg1055158391#msg1055158391 date=1584515053]

Quote
Had God only seen GB? Does not the scriptures you quoted say "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"?

Of course, as my post said, you can no more change the future which God has already seen, than you could peel the moon.

Ez. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Like He says. "Today if you hear His Voice, Harden not your hearts". You don't know the future, so just "do" as He instructs. Or not, it's your choice.




Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #43 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:40:24 »
Of course, as my post said, you can no more change the future which God has already seen, than you could peel the moon.
What He has already seen is the results of all the changes which you have or will have implemented.  His foreknowledge is not causal nor is it in any way limiting your actions.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #43 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:40:24 »

Online GB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #44 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 10:57:33 »
So, you believe that the eternal God can cease to be God? Do you hear that GB?

As to your question, Jesus prayed to God, the Father.

LOL, yes, Jesus Prayed to the one and only God.






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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #45 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 11:02:59 »
What He has already seen is the results of all the changes which you have or will have implemented.  His foreknowledge is not causal nor is it in any way limiting your actions.

That is what I have been posting since I got on this forum. HE knows, but I don't. Therefore HE says the Same thing to all. "Today if you hear His Voice, Harden not your hearts".

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #46 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 11:23:28 »
LOL, yes, Jesus Prayed to the one and only God.
GB, can you, once and for all, give a direct and clear answer to the question:

Do you believe that the eternal God can cease to be God as when He came to earth and became flesh?

Yes or no?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #47 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 12:31:50 »
reposted
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 12:46:35 by Michael2012 »

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #48 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 12:38:02 »
GB, can you, once and for all, give a direct and clear answer to the question:

Do you believe that the eternal God can cease to be God as when He came to earth and became flesh?

Yes or no?

God is Spirit, Jesus came in the Flesh. God, the Spirit, didn't cease to be God, the Spirit. He Sent His Son in the Flesh.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I (The Risen Christ) will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jesus didn't come to Earth as God. He called Himself the Son of God. I believe Him.






Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #49 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 12:44:09 »
Had God only seen GB? Does not the scriptures you quoted say "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"?

Of course, as my post said, you can no more change the future which God has already seen, than you could peel the moon.

Ez. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Like He says. "Today if you hear His Voice, Harden not your hearts". You don't know the future, so just "do" as He instructs. Or not, it's your choice.

No GB. The future you say which God has already seen is what God's hand and counsel had determined beforehand to happen. And what God had determined to happen, that is what can no more change. It is not really because He had seen it that it will not change, but that, it is because that is what He had beforehand determined to happen.

My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #50 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 12:50:48 »
Of course, as my post said, you can no more change the future which God has already seen, than you could peel the moon.

Ez. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Like He says. "Today if you hear His Voice, Harden not your hearts". You don't know the future, so just "do" as He instructs. Or not, it's your choice.


No GB. The future which you say God has already seen is what His hand and His counsel determined beforehand should happen. And what God had by His counsel determined to happen, can not be changed.

My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.


What you are rejecting is that God has already told us who will live and who will not in the Holy Scriptures we are to learn doctrine, correction, reproof and instruction in righteousness from. It's just that many have been convinced, like Eve, that many of His Judgments are not true.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God, who knows the end from the beginning, already knows who will trust him over the many other religious voices out there, and has already determined who He will have mercy on and who He will not.

As HE says.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God gives the Choice, and already knows what choices we make and has already provided for the promises. But we don't. Therefore He says to all, "today if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts", and hope for the promised Mercy in Faith that "HIS Counsel shall stand".








Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #51 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 12:56:40 »
Quote from: Michael
GB, can you, once and for all, give a direct and clear answer to the question:

Do you believe that the eternal God can cease to be God as when He came to earth and became flesh?

Yes or no?
God is Spirit, Jesus came in the Flesh. God, the Spirit, didn't cease to be God, the Spirit. He Sent His Son in the Flesh.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I (The Risen Christ) will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Jesus didn't come to Earth as God. He called Himself the Son of God. I believe Him.

Since you neither said Yes or no, you have not made yourself clear. Do you want that?

You said "God is Spirit, Jesus came in the Flesh. God, the Spirit, didn't cease to be God, the Spirit. He Sent His Son in the Flesh."

Please explain what you mean by that.

Did the eternal God cease to be God when He came to earth and became flesh?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #52 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 13:04:51 »
Quote from: Michael
No GB. The future you say which God has already seen is what God's hand and counsel had determined beforehand to happen. And what God had determined to happen, that is what can no more change. It is not really because He had seen it that it will not change, but that, it is because that is what He had beforehand determined to happen.

My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

What you are rejecting is that God has already told us who will live and who will not in the Holy Scriptures we are to learn doctrine, correction, reproof and instruction in righteousness from. It's just that many have been convinced, like Eve, that many of His Judgments are not true.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God, who knows the end from the beginning, already knows who will trust him over the many other religious voices out there, and has already determined who He will have mercy on and who He will not.

As HE says.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God gives the Choice, and already knows what choices we make and has already provided for the promises. But we don't. Therefore He says to all, "today if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts", and hope for the promised Mercy in Faith that "HIS Counsel shall stand".

What I'm rejecting is what you teach.

And you just ignored my argument.

The future you say which God has already seen is what God's hand and counsel had determined beforehand to happen.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #53 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 13:19:45 »
The future you say which God has already seen is what God's hand and counsel had determined beforehand to happen.

FALSE

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #54 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 13:29:52 »
GB, 4WD, did not Herod and Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel, put to death Jesus? Yes they did.

Now, did this happen because God, before this actually happened, had already seen ahead that Herod and Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel, will put to death Jesus? Or did this happen because it was God's counsel and it was what God, by His sovereignty, had determined beforehand to happen?
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 14:13:58 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #55 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 13:33:10 »
Quote from: Michael
The future you say which God has already seen is what God's hand and counsel had determined beforehand to happen.
FALSE

Why do you say it is false?

Offline RB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #56 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 15:03:21 »
Now I must ask this question to BOTH BTR and GB: "Before God, are you one and the same person?" I suggested that you may be, and neither of you denied it.

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #57 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 15:15:18 »
"Men of Israel, listen to these words:  Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which {God performed through Him} in your midst, just as you yourselves know--[/I] -Acts 2:22

“Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. -Jhn.14:1
BTR~what does your post have to do with my reply to you from #28? Your post proves nothing. Do you have anything to refute my post to you? You truly are not adding any new revelation, and neither are you proving that your doctrine is not blasphemy against the Deity of Jesus Christ, being BOTH the Son of Man and the only begotten Son of God.... thereby making him equal to God in his Divine attributes. 
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 15:18:18 by RB »

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #58 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 15:55:59 »
What you are rejecting is that God has already told us who will live and who will not in the Holy Scriptures we are to learn doctrine, correction, reproof and instruction in righteousness from. It's just that many have been convinced, like Eve, that many of His Judgments are not true.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God, who knows the end from the beginning, already knows who will trust him over the many other religious voices out there, and has already determined who He will have mercy on and who He will not.

As HE says.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God gives the Choice, and already knows what choices we make and has already provided for the promises. But we don't. Therefore He says to all, "today if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts", and hope for the promised Mercy in Faith that "HIS Counsel shall stand".


What I'm rejecting is what you teach.

And you just ignored my argument.

The future you say which God has already seen is what God's hand and counsel had determined beforehand to happen.

Yes, His Word last forever.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

His counsel shall stand.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Ez. 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Therefore, "today if you hear His Voice, harden not your heart".

Because HIS Counsel will stand.


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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #59 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 16:17:31 »
Now I must ask this question to BOTH BTR and GB: "Before God, are you one and the same person?" I suggested that you may be, and neither of you denied it.
[/quote


Nope, but we are brothers, we have the same Father. :)

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #60 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 16:42:36 »
Now I must ask this question to BOTH BTR and GB: "Before God, are you one and the same person?" I suggested that you may be, and neither of you denied it.

No, he is a Brother in Christ. I am blessed to have met him.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #61 on: Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 17:21:45 »
FALSE


Why do you say it is false?
Because it is wrong.

Did Adam and Eve sin because God had foreordained that it would happen?  No, absolutely not.  Did God know beforehand that it would happen?  Yes, absolutely.  To foreordain and to foreknow are completely different and completely separate abilities of the one all powerful God.  If you don't understand the difference, then I don't think I can help you.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #62 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 00:26:50 »
Because it is wrong.

Did Adam and Eve sin because God had foreordained that it would happen?  No, absolutely not.  Did God know beforehand that it would happen?  Yes, absolutely.  To foreordain and to foreknow are completely different and completely separate abilities of the one all powerful God.  If you don't understand the difference, then I don't think I can help you.

God did not create man and gave them the freedom to choose, only so that man can somewhat influence, more so change, anything of that of His determined purposes. It was not for man that God created all of creation, though He made man to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. But here is what Paul said, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" That should be clear.

Some believe that God have chosen to salvation, those He knew beforehand who will believe in Him. But what difference would it be then if He had not chosen them, when His foreknowledge is a surety by itself, that that is the way it will be? There is no point in that at all. Is not God's choosing them to salvation is so that they will certainly believe and be saved? Will God's choosing them make their believing in the future more certain than God's foreknowledge of it? No.

In one of my post to you, elsewhere in this forum, if I'm not mistaken, I have discussed to you about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the children of the promise, the Israel of God, who they are and how God had sovereignly chosen them for salvation even before the foundation of the world. And I got no refutation from you, though got your disagreement.

Here are some more questions for you to ponder about in relation to this subject matter. Perhaps they could help shed light.

Man sinned of his own free will, and brought condemnation upon himself ~ death.

What sin or evil could one accuse of God, if God chose to save some from sin and leave others to their sin?

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #63 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 01:13:40 »
Yes, His Word last forever.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

His counsel shall stand.

Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Ez. 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Therefore, "today if you hear His Voice, harden not your heart".

Because HIS Counsel will stand.

What God had from the beginning wants for man? That man believes in Him (all the time). So, what God had from the beginning have man choose freely, is to believe God (all the time) or not.  God gave a very simple commandment to man, then in the person of Adam, to not eat of the forbidden fruit. And that commandment was not good only for a day, but that it is upon Adam, to believe in God and do as God commanded him, all the time, every day. Adam, one day, had fallen, and continueth not to be faithful to God.

Now, those who come after Adam, have you not learned what they freely choose between believing God (all the time) or not. That's right, it's the latter. No one ever had chosen to be faithful to God. One way or another, they fell and failed to be faithful. If you deny that truth, it's yours to make. But that does not change the fact that, that is the reality and truth of the matter.

Do you think for a second that there is even one man who would have not sinned against God and continued to be faithful to Him (except Jesus Christ), and need not to be saved from hell? The point is, if God lets the man be as he is, with his freedom to choose, he surely is going to the lake of fire, for he surely would, like the father of mankind, Adam, be unfaithful, and be guilty of sin. And that is what God, in his foreknowledge, would have seen ahead. It had been proven, that no man could be right with God on and by his own. Only Jesus Christ can and is. In such case, that man will surely not make it, if left to himself, what do you think is left to be done, so that, the kind of creature that man was originally created by God in the beginning be saved and restored to what it formerly was?

This is what we know in scriptures. God had by election of grace, chosen a people, even from before the foundation of the world, whom He will create anew, conformed to the image of His Son, Jesus Christ. Who are these people? They are those who are being saved, those who are in Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 01:17:57 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #64 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 02:00:01 »
Nope, but we are brothers, we have the same Father. :)

The both of you, who is your "Father"?

Does your "Father" have a Son, whose name is Jesus?

Had your "Father" said of His Son:

"let all the angels of God worship him"

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Is this Son of your "Father" worshipped by man?

Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.

Why did they worship him? For the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them and said unto them, that he is Christ. What is with Christ that they worshipped him? Is not God the only one that they should be worshipping? Had they sinned in worshipping Jesus?

Now, will it not be then that Jesus is your brethren?

Why is Jesus worshipped and you two are not? Or must you be worshipped too?
Do you worship Jesus? For what reason are you worshipping him, if you do worship him?

A lot of questions for you, so it seems.....

But will we get any answer?
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 02:38:07 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #65 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 02:01:46 »
GB, 4WD, did not Herod and Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel, put to death Jesus? Yes they did.

Now, did this happen because God, before this actually happened, had already seen ahead that Herod and Pontius Pilate, the Gentiles and the people of Israel, will put to death Jesus? Or did this happen because it was God's counsel and it was what God, by His sovereignty, had determined beforehand to happen?

Up!

Offline RB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #66 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 02:58:28 »
Did Adam and Eve sin because God had foreordained that it would happen?  No, absolutely not.  Did God know beforehand that it would happen?  Yes, absolutely. 
Agreed. God alone is immutable , and by his infinite knowledge knew this, which is a given. THEREBY, he knew that if man left to himself would sin, the only possibility for man to not to fall under God's condemnation and left there~there HAD TO BEEN A ELECTION OF GRACE to save anyone of them, or else not one soul would have ever had a chance of escaping the wrath of an infinitely holy God who hates sin and according to his infinite righteousness must destroy both sin and the sinner! And we might add~if there is an election of grace, then by definition, there MUST BE A rejection of others who by definition, were foreordained to destruction. Paul described this perfectly here:
Quote from: Paul
Romans 9:9-24~"For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
God was not under obligation to save one soul, much less, millions upon millions. And we will add, there is NO injustice done to one soul, for God created man and placed him in an absolutely perfect world with every conceivable means for him to NOT SIN and to be eternally happy beyond our understanding. The "only" act that God did not to for our first parents was to secured them in that glorious sate in which he created them......he LEFT them to THEMSELVES without any DIVINE INTERVENTION toward them! The rest of the story we all know very well they fell into SIN the very second that God LEFT them to themselves! How do I know that? Simple answer~The LORD God ALONE is immutable and cannot be tempted to sin and neither tempt he any man, or angels!

Under the New Covenant, he laid help upon one that was MIGHTY to save God's elect~his holy Son~ by his perfect obedience he SECURED for the elect what Adam could not do for his posterity! Enough for now.....RB

Offline Michael2012

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #67 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 04:03:26 »
Agreed. God alone is immutable , and by his infinite knowledge knew this, which is a given. THEREBY, he knew that if man left to himself would sin, the only possibility for man to not to fall under God's condemnation and left there~there HAD TO BEEN A ELECTION OF GRACE to save anyone of them, or else not one soul would have ever had a chance of escaping the wrath of an infinitely holy God who hates sin and according to his infinite righteousness must destroy both sin and the sinner!

Yes RB. I don't know how the Christian, a sinner he was, helpless as he was then, a wicked person he was then, could now have a voice and give counsel as though he had even a tiny bit of right or authority to do so, that God could only choose him if he permits Him or that God had chosen him because he believed Him. How foolish (on the former case) and arrogant (on the latter case) could he be? He thinks that God is not sovereign over him? He thinks that he can control God in that regard? He thinks that God have no right to save any one he chooses to save? That it would be unrighteous of God to do that? That God cannot have mercy on whomever God wants to have mercy? That God's sovereignty over man is somehow limited? Wow! Such foolishness and pride! May God have mercy, if so that will bring glory to Him, and if it is according to His will.

Offline RB

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #68 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 04:46:50 »
Nope, but we are brothers, we have the same Father. :)
Without a doubt.
Quote from: GB on: Yesterday at 16:42:36
No, he is a Brother in Christ. I am blessed to have met him.
Brother no doubt~ But I must ask you and BTR this question: "How does one get IN Christ?" Paul said this:
Quote from: Paul
Ephesians 1:4~"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Again Paul said:
Quote
2nd Timothy 1:9~"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"
Paul said that God's election of grace puts us IN CHRIST! Do you believe Paul or religious voices/spirits of Mystery Babylon? I have try these spirits per 1st John 4:1~ and found them to be anitchrist~even though sad to say, some of God's own people have been deceived by these seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Timothy 2:19~"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 04:53:30 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Trying the spirits whether they are of God~1st John 4:1
« Reply #69 on: Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 04:57:50 »
Yes RB. I don't know how the Christian, a sinner he was, helpless as he was then, a wicked person he was then, could now have a voice and give counsel as though he had even a tiny bit of right or authority to do so, that God could only choose him if he permits Him or that God had chosen him because he believed Him. on whomever God wants to have mercy?
It has nothing to do with man having a voice or giving counsel to God.  It has only to do with man responding to God.
Quote from: Michael
How foolish (on the former case) and arrogant (on the latter case) could he be? He thinks that God is not sovereign over him? He thinks that he can control God in that regard? He thinks that God have no right to save any one he chooses to save? That it would be unrighteous of God to do that?
Here again, it has nothing whatsoever to do with controlling God.  It has to do only with believing what God says.  And you, RB and others of the Calvinist theology seriously error in your beliefs about what God has said.
Quote from: Michael
That God cannot have mercy That God's sovereignty over man is somehow limited? Wow! Such foolishness and pride! May God have mercy, if so that will bring glory to Him, and if it is according to His will.
Wow! Indeed! It has nothing whatsoever to do with limiting God's sovereignty.  It has to do with what God, in His sovereignty, has promised in His written word. You present God's sovereignty as barrier against His promises.