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Author Topic: Under the Law  (Read 5197 times)

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Offline ChristNU

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 11:29:07 AM »
John, if I might add a word here.  If believing is enough then why isn't Satan saved?

Demons believe God is One, they do not, nor could they, nor would they believe in, (trust in, depend upon and cling to) Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

"How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?" (Gal. 3:3)

"He has enabled us to be ministers of His new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor. 3:6)

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2011, 11:29:07 AM »

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 11:34:17 AM »
Satan's wings once covered the throne of God.  He knows who Jesus is.  Why wouldn't he?
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2011, 11:34:17 AM »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2011, 11:35:57 AM »
so how do you do the differing if I believe  then how do I believe as in trust in, depend upon and cling to? It sound like there is a difference here and making  it a condition in which I must do.

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2011, 11:35:57 AM »

Offline ChristNU

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2011, 11:40:18 AM »
so how do you do the differing if I believe  then how do I believe as in trust in, depend upon and cling to? It sound like there is a difference here and making  it a condition in which I must do.

Trusting in, depending upon and clinging to Christ is what it means to believe in Christ. Belief in Christ is not just intellectual assent to the reality of His existence.

"How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?" (Gal. 3:3)

"He has enabled us to be ministers of His new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor. 3:6)

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2011, 11:40:18 AM »

Offline gospel

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2011, 11:50:53 AM »
John, if I might add a word here.  If believing is enough then why isn't Satan saved?

Demons believe God is One, they do not, nor could they, nor would they believe in, (trust in, depend upon and cling to) Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.



Here we go again!

The answer is because demons trust Satan, they do not trust God. The answer is they do not believe God is whom He said He is

A lot of people who are not Christians, who are non believers believe Jesus existed, most of them believe He was a very wise man, they believe He was a very good man, some even believe He was highly gifted and developed in spiritual matters with supernatural power and ability to do miraculous works yet.....

THEY DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS WHOM HE SAID HE IS


Like the Pharisees who heard Jesus and saw His miracles, saw Lazarus raised from
the dead and knew very well Jesus did it yet...........

They did not believe Jesus was Whom He said He was!

Even Lucifer was cast out of heaven because he believed he was above God, better than God....

So obviously he did not believe God is The Almighty God, The One True and Living God...

At least it should be obvious

In the end comparing what demons believe to what we who are God's people believe is the height of foolishness, for there is no comparison and shows a total misunderstanding of the intent of what James was saying in James 2:19

Clearly Satan and demons have made their choices based on what they believe

And we have made ours

Believing is the foundational fundamental basis of Our Faith and the most novice of believers can cite 10-20 scriptures to that 1 verse, that say as much.

Satan would want nothing better than to make Christians believe, that believing is not enough, for if you believe that, your Christian walk is weakened and at best made ineffective and impotent

Romans 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.  

Yes demons know who Jesus is, but Satan is their lord so Satan or his demons do not and will not confess Jesus as Lord

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Romans 10:9
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2011, 11:50:53 AM »



Offline Johnb

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 12:18:29 PM »
Bonnie
Gospel gave a good answer to your really dumb question.  (sorry but it is a got ya type dumb question)
Being saved by grace through faith is not just an intellectual belief.  It is accepting Jesus as the Son of God and putting our trust in Him.  That is the faith that is clearly outlined in all of scripture.  Then Jesus extends His grace to us.  He does not extend grace to Satan because he does not have the trusting faith or belief that Jesus talks about.
 
So what is it that you think must be added to gain salvation?
"He drew a circle that excluded me.  I drew a circle that included him.."  W. Carl Ketcherside

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 12:18:29 PM »

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2011, 04:01:32 PM »
Bonnie
Gospel gave a good answer to your really dumb question.  (sorry but it is a got ya type dumb question)
Being saved by grace through faith is not just an intellectual belief.  It is accepting Jesus as the Son of God and putting our trust in Him.  That is the faith that is clearly outlined in all of scripture.  Then Jesus extends His grace to us.  He does not extend grace to Satan because he does not have the trusting faith or belief that Jesus talks about.
 
So what is it that you think must be added to gain salvation?

Added to what?  What the Bible says about receiving salvation?  Nothing!

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2011, 04:12:59 PM »
John, I think when Archangel Micheal thrust Satan out of heaven along with the other rebelling angels they pretty much believed that they were already defeated.  I think that at least they know by experience rather than imagination.
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

Offline Bonnie

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2011, 04:24:46 PM »
Gospel, what is your point?  Many people refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life, not just the demons.
Many others say they believe in God but in works they deny him.  It's in the book, look it up.
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2011, 04:24:46 PM »

Offline Johnb

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2011, 04:44:31 PM »
Bonnie
the question was what do you believe must be added to what Jesus said in John 3 that one must do to be saved?


Jimmy
I was asking Bonnie what she believes must be added to Jesus statement in John 3.  Since I spent over 6 years in post graduate study in CoC colleges I know what you believe.  But all that aside  I accept what the Son of God said not CoC doctrine.
"He drew a circle that excluded me.  I drew a circle that included him.."  W. Carl Ketcherside

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2011, 04:44:31 PM »

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2011, 07:31:57 PM »

Jimmy
I was asking Bonnie what she believes must be added to Jesus statement in John 3.  Since I spent over 6 years in post graduate study in CoC colleges I know what you believe.  But all that aside  I accept what the Son of God said not CoC doctrine.

I seriously doubt that you know what I believe except what you have gleaned from my postings here since I never spent even a day at a CoC college.

But in John 3, Jesus said that one must be born of water and the Spirit.  That seems to me to be something  beyond your faulty faith alone concept.  Otherwise it seems that Jesus would have just said "faith alone".  But of course He didn't did He? But that is not really surprising since no one else in the NT ever spoke of salvation by "faith alone" either.  So I don't really think that you accept what the Son of God said.  CoC doctrine -- I am not that well versed in it perhaps some or most but not all of it.

BTW, you spent 6 years in post graduate study in CoC colleges?  Slow or what?

Offline gospel

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2011, 10:27:08 PM »
Gospel, what is your point?  Many people refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life, not just the demons.
Many others say they believe in God but in works they deny him.  It's in the book, look it up.


The point is ...

saying demons believe is pure hogwash, in the way it is used to make belief seem unimportant and nonessential ...that's the point

Belief is the most essential foundational fundamental empowering aspect of Christianity

People die for what they believe


That's the point!

People are willing to die rather than denounce belief in Jesus


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/10/03/iranian-pastor-has-greater-chance-facing-death-with-new-allegations/


That's the point!

So don't give me the demons believe in Jesus bit for it only serves to show a lack of understanding of what BELIEF IN CHRIST means and what James was actually talking about

That's the point!
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline Sinead

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2011, 10:29:59 PM »

New King James Version (NKJV)

 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
Sinéad~

Offline gospel

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2011, 10:32:13 PM »
Quote
But in John 3, Jesus said that one must be born of water and the Spirit.  That seems to me to be something  beyond your faulty faith alone concept.

The major point you seem to be missing about either birth is ....

You can't control either of them

Your first or your second

Your first occurs without your input

Your second birth occurs by the Holy Spirit because God has predestined and drawn you and it is by grace so you can't boast

Though that's hard for some people to avoid

They are certain they have something to do with their new birth
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline Sinead

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Re: Under the Law
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2011, 10:35:30 PM »
Gospel, what is your point?  Many people refuse to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life, not just the demons.
Many others say they believe in God but in works they deny him.  It's in the book, look it up.

Exactly right. Believing in Jesus doesn't grant a person salvation. Many God-haters and persecuters of christians believe.
Satan believes, demons believe - they know better than anyone Who He is and what He's like.
We aren't doing God any favours by believing in Him. He exists and He is who He is whether we believe or not.

Belief alone will not save anyone.
Sinéad~