Author Topic: Useful Q & A  (Read 3513 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #140 on: Thu Sep 09, 2021 - 15:46:12 »
Long discussions are just a nice name for perpetual bull sessions that never get to the bottom of anything, so: thanks, but no thanks. You guys do what you want, but I've petty much said all I'm ever going to say about Christian baptism and now intend to pick up where I left off and continue my original purpose: that of systematically posting useful Q & A.
That's fine with me since you never defend anything you believe in, which proves that your thoughts are your own for the most part.

Jesus according to you was part of the perpetual bull sessions~for he was part of many discussions in his short three years of preaching the gospel to the poor in spirit.

As your desire so shall it be....Ichabod over all threads whose desire is not to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints of God.  The Lord will judge righteously considering this. 

Offline DaveW

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #141 on: Fri Sep 10, 2021 - 09:21:28 »
You cannot baptize anyone for any reason unless that person wants to be baptized or it simply won't stick.

You can command as many existing believers that you want, but unless the baptizee is willing for the right reason, it is a fruitless move of the baptizer.

V 19 says " Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations"

That has to be an incorrect translation simply because all the nations would never become converted. Hence it is misleading at best, and wrong at worst.
Only the translation or interpretation is incorrect. Disciples FROM every nation is equally good and fits the context better.

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #142 on: Fri Sep 10, 2021 - 11:18:55 »

39» What Is Justification?

Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" in that passage means acquittal; which Webster's defines as a judgment that a person is not guilty of the crime with which the person has been charged.

To give a rough-hewn idea of how this plays out: according to Rev 20:11-15, God is keeping books on everyone wherein is inventoried their entire life.

Were those books to be opened to the pages wherein is supposed to be an inventory of the life of someone who managed to obtain the justification available by means of Christ's death and resurrection, those pages would be missing because when someone obtains the justification, God closes their case and it's never reopened-- not because it's a cold case, but because all charges against them were dropped, i.e. transferred to Christ.

Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

2 Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them

Rom 8:33-34 . .Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns; Christ Jesus ,who died?
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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #142 on: Fri Sep 10, 2021 - 11:18:55 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #143 on: Fri Sep 10, 2021 - 14:39:42 »
You quite obviously do not understand what justification is or means.  It most certainly does not mean that anyone has been declared not guilty.  If that were the case, there would have been no need for Christ's sacrifice on the cross. He died for the guilty.

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #143 on: Fri Sep 10, 2021 - 14:39:42 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #144 on: Sat Sep 11, 2021 - 09:39:39 »

40» What Is Meant By The Quick And The Dead?

2Tim 4:1 . . Christ Jesus, who will judge the quick and the dead

The Greek word translated "quick" means living, i.e. alive.

The question pertains to judgments rather than spiritual conditions, For example John 5:24 speaks of spiritual conditions; whereas 2Tim 4:1, along with 1Pet 4:5, speaks of judgments.

There's a judgment for those alive depicted at Ezek 20:33-38 and another at Matt 25:31-46.

A judgment for those deceased is depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #144 on: Sat Sep 11, 2021 - 09:39:39 »



Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #145 on: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 11:39:08 »

41» How Can Death Be Thrown?

Rev 20:14 . . Death was cast into the lake of fire.

Seeing as how Death can't be picked up and thrown like a baseball or a javelin, then I suggest that casting, in this instance, is speaking of exile. (e.g. Matt 8:11-12)

Death is likely a category consisting of everything and anything one can possibly imagine that God considers dead to Himself; both visible and invisible. Whatever that amounts to, it will all be discarded in that fiery impound. In that respect, the lake of fire could be thought of as a sanitary landfill, viz: a dump for refuse disposal.
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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #145 on: Sun Sep 12, 2021 - 11:39:08 »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #146 on: Mon Sep 13, 2021 - 05:29:48 »
41» How Can Death Be Thrown?

Rev 20:14 . . Death was cast into the lake of fire.

Seeing as how Death can't be picked up and thrown like a baseball or a javelin, then I suggest that casting, in this instance, is speaking of exile. (e.g. Matt 8:11-12)
Please do not leave off important parts of the verse.

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

If you want to leave off the 2nd sentence, you can do so by saying it like this:

Rev 20:14a Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.

But you should Not leave out words in the middle of the part you are quoting; without at least showing that you did so like this:

Rev 20:14a Then death ... [was] thrown into the lake of fire.

But the mechanics aside, Why leave Hades out of the conversation? 

Dr Derek Prince (of blessed memory) said in the Greek, both Death and Hades are spoken of as persons in this verse.  That would mean they are fallen angelic beings in league with the devil.

Prince was well versed in all dialects of classical Greek before he ever came to faith.  He taught the Greek philosophers at the graduate level at Cambridge university.


Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #147 on: Mon Sep 13, 2021 - 11:09:03 »

42» Why The Everlasting Gospel?

Most of the Bible teachers that I've listened to sincerely believe that Jesus' church will be completely gone from the Earth when the fourth chapter of Revelation begins coming to pass, viz: the era of the so-called great commission (a.k.a. the church age) will be over; there won't be any regenerated, Spirit-empowered Christian evangelists left anywhere on Earth preaching the gospel of Christ, yet according to Rev 7:9-17, many thousands of people will be saved out of the Tribulation during the church's absence.

In my opinion, some of those numbers can be attributed to the success of the everlasting gospel, which can be rightfully called the timeless gospel because it contains things that have been known all over the world since the very beginning, whereas Jesus' crucifixion, his resurrection, and his future kingdom on Earth are relatively new entries in the annals of time.

Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is very elementary; pretty much all it says is:

1) There's a supreme being.

2) He deserves respect and admiration.

3) There's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and

4) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of intelligent design.
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Offline RB

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #148 on: Mon Sep 13, 2021 - 13:41:00 »
Quote from: NyawehNyoh link=topic=109033.msg1055188724#msg1055188724 date=1631549343[size=10pt
Most of the Bible teachers that I've listened to sincerely believe that Jesus' church will be completely gone from the Earth when the fourth chapter of Revelation begins coming to pass, viz: the era of the so-called great commission (a.k.a. the church age) will be over; there won't be any regenerated, Spirit-empowered Christian evangelists left anywhere on Earth preaching the gospel of Christ,[/size]
Then all that you have listened to are deceived, just that simple. They are premillennial in their eschatology teaching.
Quote from: NyawehNyoh
« on: Today at 11:09:03
yet according to Rev 7:9-17, many thousands of people will be saved out of the Tribulation during the church's absence.
You have just added to Revelation Chapter seven. There is no word about the church being absent from the earth. The church will be here until the last day when Christ returns the SECOND time and the dead both righteous and the wicked will be raised from the dead.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 5:25-29~"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead (spiritual dead, verse 24~RB) shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
This latter resurrection is the second coming of Christ, or the last day~
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 6:39,40~"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
When the LAST trumpet sounds (the seventh of Revelation) then ALL in the graves shall come forth, we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (rapture) to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with him. So some shall be here on earth and remain when Jesus comes again.
Quote from: Paul
1st Thessalonians 4:13-18~"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
Quote from: NyawehNyoh  on: Today at 11:09:03
In my opinion, some of those numbers can be attributed to the success of the everlasting gospel, which can be rightfully called the timeless gospel because it contains things that have been known all over the world since the very beginning, whereas Jesus' crucifixion, his resurrection, and his future kingdom on Earth are relatively new entries in the annals of time.
Well, you are right about one thing, it is just your opinion. We cannot teach doctrine based on our own personal opinion. God forbid. The gospel DOES NOT HAVE the POWER to get anyone born again, the gospel is the SOURCE of our information on the works of God from creation onward to the end of this world. Jesus had perfect truth using the gospel and he was killed by God-haters, that hated both him and his gospel.
Quote from: NyawehNyoh  on: Today at 11:09:03
Most of the Bible teachers that I've listened to sincerely believe that Jesus' church will be completely gone from the Earth when the fourth chapter of Revelation begins
Most are wrong, what's new? The book of Revelation and its different chapters are nothing more than a recapitulation of the time from the death of Christ to the end of the world and events that will happen in between that timeline. Each Chapter gives you different details that the others do not give, Those chapters are a BIRD EYE VIEW of events happening during the days of Jesus Christ from his death to his reign on David's throne which is a spiritual throne at God's right hand..... he is there WAITING for GOD to puts ALL his enemies under his feet and then the end will come for this world as we know it.

I left off many scriptures that could be given to prove what I have said but gave enough to allow a person to search for themselves and test me with the word of God IF they are noble Christians, most are not.

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #148 on: Mon Sep 13, 2021 - 13:41:00 »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #149 on: Tue Sep 14, 2021 - 10:36:18 »

43» What's To Learn From Moses And The Snakes?

John 3:14-17 . . Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

Long story short: Moses' people became sick and tired of living in the desert and eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their divine benefactor for tastier food and better accommodations, they became hostile and confrontational.

In response to their insolence; God sent a swarm of deadly poisonous snakes among them; which began striking people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no exceptions. In no time at all, much people of Israel died. Then those not yet dead got nervous and appealed to Moses for help. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to construct a replica of the beasts and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could look to it for immunity.

Now the key issue here is that the replica, lifted up, was the only God-given remedy for the people's terminal condition-- not purity, not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church attendance, not missionary work, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not the Sabbath, not charity, not good deeds, not good behavior, not piety, not Bible study and Sunday school, not catechism or yeshiva, not one's religion of choice, not self denial and/or self control, not the so-called golden rule, not vows of poverty and/or chastity, not the Ten Commandments, not the Eucharist; no, none of that: not even prayers. That replica, lifted up, was it; viz: it was all or nothing at all-- there was no other option. Whoever failed to look to that replica, lifted up, for immunity died: no exceptions.

In other words then: Christ, lifted up on the cross to satisfy justice for the sins of the world, is the only God-given option for protection from the second death depicted at Rev 20:11-15. The default is terminal; no exceptions. People relying upon religion and piety, instead of putting all their trust in Christ's crucifixion, are dead men walking, no exceptions.

John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever disbelieves stands condemned already.
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Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #150 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 10:13:22 »

44» What Is Sheol?

Sheol is an Old Testament Hebrew word that's sometimes transliterated instead of translated; likely because there is so much controversy about its meaning.

During Jonah's nautical adventure, he spent some time in sheol (Jonah 2:2) which is a region that he placed at the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well, Jonah's fish was under the sea rather than under the mountains, and seeing as how no part of a mountain is located in a fish's tummy, then we can be reasonably certain that Jonah and his body parted company; implying that Jonah was alive for some of the time during his three days and nights in the fish but not the whole time; which corroborates Jonah 2:9 that the prophet's body underwent putrefaction and would've completely destroyed him beyond recognition had not God resurrected Jonah in time to stop the process from getting out of hand.

Jesus appropriated Jonah's experience to illustrate his own. Jesus predicted that at some time during his three days and nights deceased, he would be in the heart of the Earth. (Matt 12:40)

Well; Jesus' body was laid to rest on the surface of the Earth; so in order for him to be down inside the Earth at same time, he and his body had to part company. In other words: Jesus spent some of his three days and nights at the bottoms of the mountains, i.e. sheol. And he too was resurrected in time to stop the process of putrefaction from getting out of hand. (Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-32)
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Offline DaveW

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #151 on: Wed Sep 15, 2021 - 10:30:49 »
Jonah and the fish only took 3 days to get to Nineveh, which is in present day Iraq.

Since it would take MUCH longer to swim from the east end of the Mediterranean and then go south to the Cape of Good hope and then north back to the Euphrates River; perhaps the fish took a more direct route with some kind of aqueous passage underground directly from the Sea to the River.  That would take them under a couple of different mountain ranges including the Golan.


Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #152 on: Thu Sep 16, 2021 - 13:37:52 »

45» How Could Abraham's Posterity Possibly Amount To The Stars?

Gen 22:17 . . In blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;

I think it best to interpret stars and sand as ancient idioms representing overwhelming numbers of just about anything. Compare Heb 12:1 where "cloud" is a term for the same purpose.

But as a matter of interest: back in Abram's day, prior to the invention of optics, the only stars that people could see with their own eyes were those in our home galaxy, the Milky Way; which consists of an estimated 100-400 billion stars. But many of those estimated billions of stars appear to the naked eye not as stars but as glowing clouds; viz: they cannot be individually distinguished by the naked eye so those didn't matter to Abram when it came to actually tallying the heavens.

The entire global sky contains roughly five or six thousand stars visible to the naked eye. However, we can't see all those stars at once; only the ones when the sky is dark. So then; in Abram's day, he could see at most three thousand discernible stars from dark till dawn. God had said "if you are able to count them" (Gen 15:5). Well; even at only three thousand, the task would be difficult.
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Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #153 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 11:17:14 »

46» Why Was Jesus Baptized?

Matt 3:13-15 . .Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying: I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me? Jesus replied: Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness. Then John consented.

An important point worth noting is that everything Jesus did, it was to please his Father. (John 8:29)

Also, Jesus did nothing on his own initiative. His daily itinerary was planned for him (John 6:38 and John 8:28). In other words: Jesus was micro managed.

However, John's baptism was unto repentance (Matt 3:11). This is curious because according to Isa 53:9, John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22, and 1John 3:9; Jesus committed no sins of his own; and as he always pleased his Father, then there was never a time when Jesus needed to ponder his life's direction and think about turning from evil and returning to God.

The reason for Jesus' baptism is very simple: his Father required it. Even if Jesus didn't know the reason why God wanted him to submit to John's baptism, it was the right thing for Jesus to do at the time because it was God's will; just as baptizing Israel was the right thing for John to do at the time because it was God's will. Both men were acting in compliance with God's directions. (John 14:31)

Obedience fulfills righteousness. For example Eph 6:1 where it's said:

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right."


NOTE: Orwellian societies-- e.g. Communist China --tend to ban religions like Christianity because one of their means of control is to turn children against their parents. This particular management practice was put into full swing during the Cultural Revolution under Chairman Mao Zedong back in the era 1966-1976. (cf. Malachi 4:6)
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Offline DaveW

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #154 on: Fri Sep 17, 2021 - 12:37:57 »
Even if Jesus didn't know the reason why God wanted him to submit to John's baptism, it was the right thing for Jesus to do at the time because it was God's will;
Of course He knew exactly why it was required.  As God He is omniscient.

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #155 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 11:00:52 »

47» Isn't Christianity's Human Sacrifice Against The Laws Of God?

God's codified law per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy is very narrow, viz: any human sacrifice-- whether underage children or consenting adults --is illegal because none are specified.

Deut 4:2 …You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.

Deut 5:29-30 …Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you.

However: the codified law isn't retroactive (Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, Gal 3:17) This is extremely important because Jesus was designated, and scheduled, to give his life a sacrifice for the sins of the world not only prior to God's codified law, but also prior to God creating even a single atom for the current cosmos. (1Pet 1:18-21 & Rev 13:8)

The past-tense grammar of the passage below reflects that ancient pre cosmos determination.

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Jehovah has laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Isa 53:6)

That passage isn't a prediction, rather, it's a statement of facts, i.e. a telling of things reckoned already gone by prior to Isaiah writing them down more than 700 years before Christ was born.
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Offline 4WD

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #156 on: Sat Sep 18, 2021 - 11:40:45 »
Isn't Christianity's Human Sacrifice Against The Laws Of God?
Christianity's Human Sacrifice? ? ?  What sort of abject ignorance are you spouting here?

You have posted some really off the wall stuff in the past; but this one really takes the cake for out and out ignorance.

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #157 on: Sun Sep 19, 2021 - 11:15:54 »

48» Did Jesus Wed And Have Children?

According to Isa 53:8, Jesus left behind no one to carry on his name.
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Offline RB

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #158 on: Sun Sep 19, 2021 - 13:22:27 »

48» Did Jesus Wed And Have Children?

According to Isa 53:8, Jesus left behind no one to carry on his name.
_

You should have been satisfied with clearer testimonies of Scripture, that you might not expose yourself to mockery.

The clear testimony of the scriptures proves that Isaiah is speaking of Christ's age being cut off so early in life!
Quote
Isaiah 53:8~"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
At a very tender age of 33.

Be sure of one thing~He has children and there will be a GREAT MARRIAGE soon to take place. His spiritual generation shall live world without end on the New earth and under the new heavens.
Quote
Hebrews 2:13,14~"And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"
Quote
Revelation 19:6-9~"And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Quote from: NyawehNyoh on: Today at 11:15:54
Jesus left behind no one to carry on his name
Have you ever heard of the word Christian? Does that ring a bell? Most likely it does not, sad to say.
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 19, 2021 - 15:20:05 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #159 on: Mon Sep 20, 2021 - 05:06:06 »
Mr. NyawehNyoh sir, I would like for you to comment on what I just said to you in the post above. All you ever do is post without defending what you post~a forum such as this is mainly here for folks to DEFEND their beliefs and to help each other to be more perfectly converted to the will of God concerning doctrines and practical godliness that should govern their life~or, I'm missing something that's more important? 

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #160 on: Mon Sep 20, 2021 - 06:23:34 »
47» Isn't Christianity's Human Sacrifice Against The Laws Of God?

God's codified law per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy is very narrow, viz: any human sacrifice-- whether underage children or consenting adults --is illegal because none are specified.
No, this is specified...

Numbers 18:15

Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem.


God claims every firstborn as his own... and then further stipulates that they MUST redeem them all rather than sacrifice them.

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #161 on: Mon Sep 20, 2021 - 11:07:07 »
.
I would like for you to comment on what I just said to you in the post above.

Request denied. Nothing said in post No.158 interests me.


I'm missing something that's more important?

The freedom of speech-- which here in the USA, includes the right to remain silent.
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« Last Edit: Mon Sep 20, 2021 - 11:14:15 by NyawehNyoh »

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #162 on: Mon Sep 20, 2021 - 11:18:32 »

49» What Is Meant By Proverbs 27:17?

"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."

The Hebrew word translated "countenance" has to do with one's face rather than their mind.

A friendly face is usually soft and mellow; whereas a hostile face is usually accented with tight lips and glaring narrow eyes; and sometimes even bared teeth. We call that kind of look "daggers" --and if those kinds of looks could kill; they would.

No sharpening of two metals rubbing together can take place without them wearing on each other. However, in Prov 27:17 only one of the metals experiences wear while the other is the cause of it.

In my judicious estimation, that proverb is not speaking of building your friend up but instead speaks of tearing him down by means of chafing, i.e. relentless fault finding, mockery, and/or carping criticism; none of which are acceptable social skills for making friends and influencing people.

Job 16:9 . . He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.

The eyes of Job's enemy were knives, and reveals that causing somebody's countenance to sharpen should not be construed a good thing. In point of fact some of Webster's definitions related to "sharp" in include:

severe and/or harsh: such as

a : inclined to or marked by irritability or anger a sharp temper

b : causing intense mental or physical distress a sharp pain

c : cutting in language or import


NOTE: The Hebrew word for "friend" in Prov 27:17 doesn't necessarily indicate a buddy; but includes a variety of others, i.e. companions, associates, fellows, husbands, lovers, neighbors, etc. --just about anybody with whom we come into personal contact whether temporary or extended, e.g. waitresses, taxi drivers, retail clerks, fast food workers, gas station attendants, dog walkers, flight attendants, druggists, coffee barristers, food cart vendors, doctors, dentists, nurses, et al.

I think everyone, Christians especially, ought to avoid rubbing people the wrong way lest we become known as a toxic influence that the world would be a better place without.
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Offline RB

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #163 on: Mon Sep 20, 2021 - 14:23:20 »
What Is Meant By Proverbs 27:17?....."As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
The lesson is very simple, maybe too simple for you! You need good friends, and you need to be a good friend. Iron can sharpen iron, and a good friend can sharpen a friend. The iron of a file can make a blade sharper, and a good friend can make his friend better. Are WE a good friend? Do WE have good friends?

A knife is not sharpened by cloth, bread, wood, plastic, or even gold. A knife may cut and shape these things for them to be more useful, but these things will only dull the knife. Sharpening a knife requires iron or a substitute for iron at least as hard as the knife. Once sharpened, a knife is much more productive with less effort on such things (Ecclesiastes 10:10).

This proverb is about good friends~ they will make you better (Proverbs 27:9). A good friend will make you brighter, sharper, and more useful. But not any friend will do. Only wise friends make you wiser (Proverbs 13:20), so good men love other good men (Titus 1:8). Foolish friends will dull and corrupt your life (Proverbs 13:20; Ist Corinthians 15:33). If your father had or has a noble and wise friend, it is wise for you to keep him as your friend (Proverbs 27:10).

Two are better than one. Solomon taught this in his great book of philosophy, because they sharpen and improve each other in at least four ways (Ecclesiastes  4:9-12). They can share successes of labor together, help each other up when they fall, combine complementary abilities for greater accomplishments, and defend against mutual enemies. A good friend is a great blessing. The solitary life is foolish and sacrifices these great advantages.

The noun countenance here may mean a person’s face and appearance (Proverbs 25:23; Ist Samuel 16:7,12; Daniel 1:13-15; Matthew 6:16); it may mean the expression of feeling toward another person (Proverbs 16:15; Genesis 31:2; Psalms 4:6; 44:3; Acts 2:28); and it may mean the spirit, demeanor, behavior, or conduct of a man (Proverbs 15:13; Deuteronomy 28:50; Psalms 10:4; 7:3; Daniel 5:6,9). What is the spirit, demeanor, behavior, and conduct of a man? It is his character.

This proverb deals with the character of a man~ a very precious thing indeed. Character is by far the most important measure of a man or woman. Limiting countenance to improving a man’s facial expressions mocks Solomon’s wisdom. A file does not merely make a knife look better; it makes the knife better in its usefulness. Limiting countenance to showing feelings makes little sense, for friends already express approval of each other.
Quote from: NyawehNyoh on: Today at 11:07:07
Nothing said in post No.158 interests me.
Maybe this does not either. You have the right to not chose good friends but you would show yourself to be wise by having godly, wise friends.
Quote from:  NyawehNyoh on: Yesterday at 11:18:32
The Hebrew word translated "countenance" has to do with one's face rather than their mind.
You need more friends to help you not make a mockery out of the scriptures. You are not hearing the wise man's words correctly.
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 03:30:03 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #164 on: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 07:15:35 »
RB, you might as well forget it.  He is unteachable, a sign of a narcissist.  Being unteachable, he is not well learned.

Offline NyawehNyoh

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Re: Useful Q & A
« Reply #165 on: Tue Sep 21, 2021 - 09:34:07 »

50» Is 2Macc 12:48-46 A Useful Example?

The story tells of a Jewish military commander's attempt to atone for his dead soldiers' pagan amulets which he believed is a crime against God for Jews to wear. So Judas Maccabeus passed the hat among his surviving men and collected about 2,000 silver drachmas which were sent to Jerusalem intended for a sacrifice to expiate his dead men's sin so that it wouldn't jeopardize their resurrection.

The covenant that Mose's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy is very narrow. There are no sacrifices stipulated in it for expiating the unforgiven sins that people take with them over to the afterlife; ergo: the very Law that Judas sought to appease makes it a crime to either amend, embellish, add to, revise, edit, upgrade, update, or subtract from the covenant.

Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of The Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.

Deut 5:32-33 . . Be careful, therefore, to do as The Lord, your God, has commanded you, not turning aside to the right or to the left, but following exactly the way prescribed for you by The Lord, your God,

Deut 26:16 . . This day The Lord, your God, commands you to observe these statutes and decrees. Be careful, then, to observe them with all your heart and with all your soul.

Bottom line: What Judas did was just as pagan as the amulets that his men were wearing when they died.


NOTE: Just because somebody's personal beliefs are recorded in the Bible does not make their personal beliefs eo ipso truth. Judas believed it was possible for living Jews to offer sacrifices for the unforgiven sins of deceased Jews. Is it? No; absolutely not! Were it possible, then a procedure for that purpose would be stipulated in the covenant.

Atonements for the dead fall into the category of sins of presumption; viz: unauthorized behavior.

If 2Mcc 12:38-46 teaches anything at all it’s that the Israel of Judas Maccabeus’ day was spiritually decadent-- just as decadent as it was in the days of the Judges when every man did that which was right in his own eyes rather than the eyes of The Lord their God.
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