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Author Topic: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?  (Read 7652 times)

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Offline GleasonFromCA

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2007, 10:49:01 PM »
I'm not a scholar of Luke and can only look to the structural sense of the Gospel. First, Luke establishes that he is writing a history (Luke 1:1-4  ESV Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.) that would instruct accurately. Again, I am just estimating, but the entire chronology contained in all four Gospels covers at most 1 months time in Jesus' three year ministry. We know that Luke was looking for significant events that tell the story of Christ and him crucified. His Gospel narrative looks constantly forward to the cross.
Here we have the story of the swords. Jesus is looking straight forward to his death on the cross thus fulfilling prophecy. But now, Luke provides a sword for Peter to cut off Malchus' ear and for Jesus to heal it. Luke has now created a contrast between a kingdom established by the violence of men over men to a kingdom established by violence of men against the God-man, Jesus. Why waste precious words on this simple statement?
Paul and Luke both name names in their accounts. These names can be checked against the people living in Judea and Malchus may have been living or remembered. Here we have disciples armed after passover (remember that Thomas siad that they should die by the side of Christ and they all fled) and the Prince of Peace healing a temple guard. It's a simple historical detail that could have been checked by Theophilus (or whoever read the account) for accuracy.
Contextually, then we have an historical detail spun out in precious pages of Scripture and a contrast of kingdoms - the one established by the King of the universe and the other one hoped to be established as David (and the Maccabees) had. The disciples beliefs could not have been in more stark contrast than against Jesus' obedience to the Father.
Again, I'm not really a scholar of Luke and can only infer.
In Christ,
Gleason

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2007, 10:49:01 PM »

Offline Gracious

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2007, 04:56:46 AM »
Yup Gleason from Cali ::clappingoverhead:: I'm right with you brother!!! ::smile::

Quote
22.36 ‘And he said to them, “But now, he who has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet, and he who has none (no purse or wallet), let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2007, 04:56:46 AM »

Offline normfromga

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2007, 06:50:37 AM »
I have no dispute with others who have post, but, as usual, I tend to get a little more pragmatic about the situation.

Thus I shall quote, once again, from II Opinions 3:15...

Jesus knew that for His vow (John 17:12) to be fulfilled, His disciples should not also be rounded up and tried along with Him as co-conspirators. (John 18:8-9)  He also knew that the fact that they were armed may give the guards pause in deciding to round them up also.

Of course, as usual, Peter didn't "get the memo" and decided to proactively defend his Master, and once again, had to be rebuked. (John 18:10-11)

This brings out another wrinkle, of course.  Jesus not only healed the servant because He was the Prince of Peace, but if the servant had keeled over and bleed to death, Peter might have gotten pole position on the cross, really messing up His vow...

I bring back two lessons from this story:

There is nothing unscriptural about arming yourself for self-defense.

There is nothing scriptural about preemptively attacking someone because they don't like you, and they would do the same to you if they had the means (but they don't.)

But that would lead us back to the Political forum...

Good to hear from you, Gleason...
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells stay forever!

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2007, 06:50:37 AM »

Offline normfromga

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2007, 07:03:45 AM »
Oh yeah,

This time from III Opinions:

We know that Jesus was willing to go to the Cross, and that, if He wished, He could have called Ten Thousand Angels, but to the skeptic, he was simply ambushed by the posse, and had no means of resisting nor escaping.

The fact that at least a few of His disciples were armed (which is pointed out in all four Gospel accounts, BTW), and could probably have stirred up enough commotion to allow Him escape once again, supports the contention that He entered His Sacrifice under his own volition.
Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells stay forever!

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2007, 07:03:45 AM »

Offline charlie

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2007, 07:57:56 AM »
Gleason reads CONTEXTS: he gets the prize. I was about to post this wordy version:

There is little raw, factual information in the Bible: Jesus said that the truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the world. This was to deprive His superntural enemies of the mysteries they needed to totally destroy Him. He spoke parables to the Jewish masses and clergy.  When Jesus quotes a statement YOU are supposed to rush there and see what's up.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them,
            But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: [begging bag]
            and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

The money bag of Judas, the Judas Bag, was always attached to a flute case and was "for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments."

Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would not triumph over Jesus meaning to "blow wind instruments and make a rejoicing sound."

Judas was deprived of his BAG and hanged himself in the BEGGARS FIELD.

The very next verse exlains why there must be at least one sword: the army would bring the Wind instruments:

Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me,
                  And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

    This is from Isaiah 53 which early on prophesied of the musical mocking by the Levitical Warrior Musicians:

    Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:
    the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
   
    Wounded is
   H2490 châlal khaw-lal' A primitive root (compare H2470 ); properly to bore, that is, (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing)... denominatively (from H2485 ) to play (the flute): take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

As in, Lucifer was cast as profane out of heaven. He used wind (flute), string and percussion instruments to steal your wealth and soul

Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Luke 22:47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude,
        and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them,
        and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.

Luke 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
Luke 22:49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him,
                  Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
Luke 22:50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
Luke 22:51 And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.

That accomplished another SIGN of fulfillment

Luke 22:52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders,
        which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
Luke 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple,
        ye stretched forth no hands against me:
        but this is YOUR hour, and the power of darkness.
Luke 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priests house. And Peter followed afar off.

Jesus used Peter but I think Peter was still in the dark: like most who hear the surface words of Jesus.

Paul said that Carnal Weapons (means lifeless instruments) have no value in fighting the principalities and powers in high places--which inhabited Jerusalem. Therefore, we are given the sword of the Spirit or the Words of Christ which are Spirit and Life.  If we use the instruments of the powers of darkness we cannot defeat them. Does that make sense or what?

So, blituri... are you going to Night of Joy at Disney?

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2007, 07:57:56 AM »



Offline Gracious

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2007, 08:26:46 AM »
I have no dispute with others who have post, but, as usual, I tend to get a little more pragmatic about the situation.

Thus I shall quote, once again, from II Opinions 3:15...

Jesus knew that for His vow (John 17:12) to be fulfilled, His disciples should not also be rounded up and tried along with Him as co-conspirators. (John 18:8-9)  He also knew that the fact that they were armed may give the guards pause in deciding to round them up also..."

Prima facie !!! ::clappingoverhead::

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2007, 08:26:46 AM »

Offline prince100

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2010, 10:29:31 AM »
The word sword means "GOD(Jesus) words", so when GOD(Jesus) ask you to sell everything and buy a Sword he ask you to buy a Bible with his words.
[link removed per forum rules. Must have 20 posts before posting outside links.]

The same goes for fire. When GOD(Jesus) talks about fire he talks about the last days on earth when he returns.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 10:49:30 AM by marc »

Offline Giver

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2010, 03:20:45 PM »
What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take
it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his
garment, and buy one.

(Luke 22:36-38) “But now if you have a purse, take it; if you have a haversack, do the same; if you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one, because I tell you these words of scripture have to be fulfilled in me; He let himself be taken for a criminal, Yes, what scripture says about me is even now reaching its fulfillment.’  Lord,’ they said’ there are two swords here now,’ He said to them, ‘That is enough!
I am a temple of God where no sin exists. 

No matter who tell one anything about God he or she needs to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong.

Offline gospel

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2010, 06:11:15 PM »
As to the OP I believe it was because Jesus was about to go to the appointed place at the appointed time, this being the Garden of Gethsemane at which place HE WOULD LAY DOWN HIS LIFE

Not just laying His Life down but coming to KNOW and be SUBJECT TO SIN

To clarify, Jesus had been their spiritual covering for the entire time He was with the disciples, He did not lose one, none of them even got hurt, how could they they were under the shadow of His protective anointing...SAVED from being subject to sin in the world in His presence


Jesus knew that for 3 days He would not be covering them and they would need to protect and provide for themselves...that is all

In essence He was saying I've protected and kept you up until this point but once I submit to my ultimate mission, laying down my life, having the Sin Nature laid upon me, I will not be able to protect you

It seems this is why they, upon His arrest, scattered only John, who's name means Grace remained

Hallelujah! ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead::

  
Of course after He was reason, HE became the covering for all of us!


« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 06:57:56 PM by gospel »
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2010, 06:11:15 PM »

Offline eveh

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2010, 11:24:03 PM »
My, my, you all are a wordy bunch. I think it meant exactly what it said. They might have to protect themselves. It doesn't mean they would have to kill, just  protect each other. Fights can be avoided if someone sees you have protection. Some things are meant to be taken in a spiritual way,,,,I don't beleive that was the way it was intended in this case.  ::smile::

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2010, 11:24:03 PM »

arleigh

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2010, 07:18:16 AM »
He ment buy a sword , and they bought two  and Jesus said that was enough.
Of course I'm not one of those that can only buy one. Ahem
 

Offline gospel

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2010, 04:46:35 PM »
My, my, you all are a wordy bunch. I think it meant exactly what it said. They might have to protect themselves. It doesn't mean they would have to kill, just  protect each other. Fights can be avoided if someone sees you have protection. Some things are meant to be taken in a spiritual way,,,,I don't believe that was the way it was intended in this case.  ::smile::

You're right about protection but

The thing is this...

The religious leaders sought to kill Jesus throughout His ministry but were unable to lay a hand on Him up to this point

NO ONE could lay a hand on Jesus until He allowed sin to be laid upon Him...
..it was at that point, when He was made sin that He laid His life down

At was at that point they were able to harm Him, hit Him and beat Him 

it was at that point they ALL became vulnerable

Hence he told them to provide and protect themselves



"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline thegoodnews

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2011, 12:25:32 PM »
I have a different take on Luke 22:36-38. I have 3 points to make on this. First Jesus was fullfilling what was written "he was reckoned among the sinners". So why would he want his apostoles to buy swords unless it was a sin to own one and would fullfill this?. That is my second point that it is a sin to own a sword, gun, ect with the intent to use it and this is a very important yet overlooked point. The final point was that Jesus had no intention of ever using the swords and obviously did not sin, but was fullfilling the professy. However he was reckoned by those after him to have sinned against his message of love and thus fullfilled what was written. Remember to always turn the other cheek and love your fellow man no matter what they say or do to you.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2011, 01:58:14 PM »
There's a progression in the verse. 

If you have a purse...  (you have enough)
If you have a beggar's bag...   (you don't have enough)
If you have none... sell your shirt!

Looks to me like it's for emphasis.
I cannot do anything for God.  God can do anything through me.

Still waiting for God to show up?  Good news - He's already here.

Offline gospel

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Re: What did Jesus mean when he told his disciples to buy a sword?
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2011, 02:57:32 PM »
Basically He was saying ...


I have been your spiritual covering, covering you by the Holy Spirit within Me
 

But now I am about to lay down my life


I am about to be separated from God


And cannot cover you in the interim


During that time you will be on your own, so be prepared


You will need money, clothes and protection

« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 03:35:24 PM by gospel »
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27