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Offline LaSpino3

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Let's talk about fear:
« on: Sun Jun 24, 2018 - 18:27:07 »
There was an old man sitting under a tree; and as he sat there a spirit creature moved past. The old man asked the spirit to stop, and when he did, the old man asked him “Where are you going?” The spirit replied, “I am going into the city to kill 100 people!”

Sometime later the old man was still sitting under the tree when the same spirit was seen by him coming from the city. Again, the old man asked the spirit to stop, and again the spirit stopped. The old man asked, “How many people died in the city?” The spirit replied, “One thousand!” The old man said to him, “You told me you were going to kill only 100; therefore, you lied!” The spirit replied, “No, I did not lie: I only killed 100, all the others died of fear!”
 
Why do scriptures equate fear with murderers? Is fear a sin against God? The answer to these questions lie in the meaning of the Greek word "Fearful." This particular word is used 3 times in the N.T. Here are two.

Mark 4:40, Jesus is speaking to his disciples, he said, to them, “Why are ye so fearful, how is it that you have no faith?”

Rev.21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers ---- shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:”
 
Fear is a sin of those who perish, and the fearful lead in this black list of Revelation 21. They dared not take up the cross of Jesus Christ, yet these same run with all haste into every abominable wickedness.

Your thoughts;

Laspino3

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Let's talk about fear:
« on: Sun Jun 24, 2018 - 18:27:07 »

Offline soterion

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jun 24, 2018 - 18:50:09 »
There was an old man sitting under a tree; and as he sat there a spirit creature moved past. The old man asked the spirit to stop, and when he did, the old man asked him “Where are you going?” The spirit replied, “I am going into the city to kill 100 people!”

Sometime later the old man was still sitting under the tree when the same spirit was seen by him coming from the city. Again, the old man asked the spirit to stop, and again the spirit stopped. The old man asked, “How many people died in the city?” The spirit replied, “One thousand!” The old man said to him, “You told me you were going to kill only 100; therefore, you lied!” The spirit replied, “No, I did not lie: I only killed 100, all the others died of fear!”
 
Why do scriptures equate fear with murderers? Is fear a sin against God? The answer to these questions lie in the meaning of the Greek word "Fearful." This particular word is used 3 times in the N.T. Here are two.

Mark 4:40, Jesus is speaking to his disciples, he said, to them, “Why are ye so fearful, how is it that you have no faith?”

Rev.21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers ---- shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:”
 
Fear is a sin of those who perish, and the fearful lead in this black list of Revelation 21. They dared not take up the cross of Jesus Christ, yet these same run with all haste into every abominable wickedness.

Your thoughts;

Laspino3

Revelation 21:6-8.
And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

The unbelievers are those who simply do not believe in God/Christ so as to ever put their faith in Him. The fearful are those who may believe and make confession, but do not endure so as to overcome, but back out in times of testing; they do not keep faith (Matthew 13:20-21).

Quote
yet these same run with all haste into every abominable wickedness.

I wouldn't say that is necessarily true. Not every unbeliever and fearful one runs will all haste into every abominable wickedness. Some of those people are actually meek and have comparatively high moral standards. Their failure to put their faith in Christ unto their salvation is enough to condemn them along with those who do run in haste into every abomination and wickedness.

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jun 24, 2018 - 18:50:09 »

Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 04:23:14 »
Quote
Revelation 21:6-8~"And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death."
The fearful of Revelation 21 is not hard to see who they are if we search the scriptures. They are also listed with "unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars" proving that they were of the same nature, spirit, the family of the generation of the wicked. Consider:
Quote from: Jesus
Matthew 16:24~"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
THe FEARFUL are those who are IN FEAR never having ENOUGH and what they have they live in FEAR of losing what they have...THAT'S their god that they TRUST in to bring them the comfort of this life while they live in this world, the only world they are truly thinking be will for them! They live in fear of being in good health so they can KEEP LIVING in this world! The older they get, they fight for every day to live for another day. They TRUST DOCTORS to guide them into a longer life in THIS WORLD. They always are living in fear of having enough MONEY to last them into their old age. Living IN fear, instead of denying self and living for the world to come that the scriptures PROMISED for them that trust in God, and live their life for him.  So many scriptures that reveals to us who are the FEARFUL!
Quote from: Jesus
Matthew 24:17,18~"Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."
In closing:
Quote from: Jesus
Luke 17:31-33~"In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it."
Lot's wife had fear of losing her "earthly STUFF" and her life in Sodom! The fearful are the WICKED who put things of THIS LIFE before God and the world to come! People live in constant fear of this world's collapse of the monetary system, and the value of their personal wealth as though it is their source of happiness and comfort. I live wisely using my money, but I refuse to live in fear of anything other than fearing God and his precious word. Naked I came into this world, and pretty sure that's the way I'm leaving, and I refuse to fight for days to live here, and certainly will not trust doctors to give me another day.   
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 04:29:23 by RB »

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 04:23:14 »

Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 14:09:09 »
"all the others died of fear!”
No they did not die "of fear"~but the spirit of fear was one of their fruits of their spirit that ruled them as children of darkness.
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 15:28:29 by RB »

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 14:09:09 »
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Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 19:29:00 »
Rev. 20:11  And I saw a great white THRONE,
         and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
        and there was found no place for them.
Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great,
        stand BEFORE GOD and the books were opened:
        and another book was opened,
        which is the book of life: and the DEAD
        were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
        according to their WORKS.
Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
        and death and hell delivered up the DEAD which were in them:
        and they were JUDGED every man according to their
Rev. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE This is the second death.
Rev. 20:15 And WHOSOEVER was not found written
        in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:
        for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;
        and there was no more sea.
Rev. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
        coming down FROM GOD out of heaven,
        prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
        Behold, the tabernacle OF GOD is with men,
        and HE will dwell with them, and they shall be HIS people,
        and GOD HIMSELF shall be with them,
        and be THEIR GOD
Rev. 21:4 And GOD shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
        and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying,
        neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev. 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold,
        I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Quote
Rev. 21:6 And HE said unto me, It is done.
        I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
        I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev. 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done.
        I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
        I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Quote
He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be HIS GOD and he shall be my son.

Rev. 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things;
        and I will be HIS GOD and he shall be my son

Quote
But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers,
        and SORCERERS, and idolaters, and all liars,
        shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev. 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone,
        and cast it into the sea, saying,
        Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon [JERUSALEM]be thrown down,
        and shall be found no more at all.
Rev. 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters,
         shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be,
        shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev. 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee;   
        and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:
        for thy merchants were the great men of the earth;
        for by thy SORCERERS were all nations deceived.
Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets,
       and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 25, 2018 - 19:29:00 »



Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 03:14:52 »
Rev. 20:11  And I saw a great white THRONE, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Kenneth in these seventeen scriptures you gave without any sense given to them, you wasted your time in posting, for you did not contribute to answering the thread....
Quote
Re: Let's talk about fear:
You need to try again or take another nap, it just may help you.

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 03:14:52 »

Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 04:17:52 »
Quote
Revelation 21:6-8~"And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death."
Let us talk about the fearful more since it is a very important subject, a sin that is very seldom discussed any more, yet one many sins that many live under~ fear in the sense that God uses the word fear many times in the scriptures. Without question, all those that live under the power of the spirit of fear shall die the second death in the lake of fire is clearly stated in Revelation 21.

The scriptures have so much to say on this important subject.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Timothy 1:7~"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Genuine believers indeed by godly deeds and not of those who only give lip service have been given the spirit of LOVE to God and to those begotten of God. Love to God means one will put their trust IN HIM and NOT in the things of this present world, they are NOT ruled by "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" When God regenerates his children he creates a new man within them that have been made perfect in love toward both God and his children and even toward children of this world as much as they allow us, which many will not. Consider:
Quote from: John the beloved
1st John 4:18~"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Just a powerful declaration of a biblical truth from heaven! A child of God does not live under the power of the spirit of fear~yes at time we can be tempted to fear, yet fear does not control a child of God, but the spirit of LOVE to God first and to our neighbours second, especially so to other believers. If we love God, this love CASTETH OUT FEAR that the world lives under! We do not worry about how much money we have and could lose, or do not have and could get to make life easier for us, THESE THINGS we are NOT overly burdened about AS THE WORLD ARE. They live IN FEAR worrying about IF they have enough money TO LAST THEM in their old age, and MANY such things to they worry about. David said:
Quote from: King David
Psalms 23:4~"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."
As a Christian we should NEVER allow fear to be a controlling spirit in us, it is so unbecoming a child of God to be ruled by that evil spirit of FEAR. There will be many valleys that as a child of God we shall walk through, what spirit will we allow to rule us? For me and my house not fear, but LOVE to God that He's a very present HELP in our time of NEEDS. I'll stop for now with these words from the apostle Paul...
Quote from: Paul
Romans 8:15~"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
WHAT a wonderful Father he IS to those who love and trust in them.
« Last Edit: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 04:21:01 by RB »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 09:03:32 »
Jesus said that His kingdom does not COME with OBSERVATION meaning RELIGIOUS OBSERVATIONS called LYING WONDERS.
The Assembly OF Christ comes OUTSIDE to REST and LEARN OF ME. That is always the ONE PIECE PATTERN.
The SPIRIT whose name is JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS gave only Elders as Pastor-Teachers with HIS Word as the only FOOD. Ministers or DEACONS are vocational SERVANTS of the SHEEP and not FLEECERS.
Without massive FEAR you couldn't fill a Phone Booth on Sunday Morning PURPOSE DRIVE to silence the voice of the ONLY Chief Shepherd of the FLOCK.

REST is to STOP about everyting:  Both male and female are to be SILENT and PASSIVE for the READING so that "ALL might be SAFE and come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH or the WORD.

1Tim. 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without WRATH and doubting.

Pauo means: Stop the charismatic music which is with clanging cymbals:

    Klangê [klazô] any sharp sound, such as the twang of a bow, the grunting of swine, the hissing of serpents, the barking of dogs, of song, Cassandra-prophecies

Pauo means: Stop the: Panos ORGAI [Wrath] panic fears (i. e. terrors sent by Pan), Eur.:--but, orgê tinos anger against a person or at a thing, hierôn orgas WRATH AT OR BECAUSE OF THE RITES.


1John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us,
        because that God
        SENT
        his only begotten Son into the world,
        that we might live through him.
1John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God,
        but that he loved us, and sent his Son
        to be the propitiation for our sins.

CALVINIST DENY THAT.

1John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.
        If we love one another,
        God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and HE IN US,
         because he hath given us OF HIS SPIRIT .
1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify
        that the Father
        sent the
        Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess
        that Jesus is the SON of God,
        God dwelleth IN him, and he IN God.
1John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
        God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth IN God, and God IN him.
1John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect,
        that we may have boldness in the day of judgment:
        because as he is, so are we in this world.

Quote
1st John 4:18~"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear:
        because fear hath TORMENT. He that feareth is not made perfect in love
.

1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
         for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen,
         how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1John 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that
        Jesus is the Christ
        IS BORN
        of God: and every one that loveth
                him that BEGAT loveth him
                AND
                that is BEGOTTEN of him.
1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God,
        when we love God,
         and KEEP his commandments.
1John 5:3 For this is the love of God,
        that we KEEP his commandments:
        and his commandments are not grievous.


Ginger Rella

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #8 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 10:19:28 »
If, as suggested by the OP that fear is a sin.

Then what about...

Mathew 10:28 KJV
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2 Corinthians 7:1 KJV
7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Translation errors?



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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #8 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 10:19:28 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #9 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 13:29:45 »
There are several words for fear.

g1169. deilos, di-los´; from de÷oß deos (dread); timid, i.e. (by implication) faithless: — fearful.

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace,
        whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

g2124.   eulabeia, yoo-lab´-i-ah; from 2126; properly, caution, i.e. (religiously) reverence (piety); by implication, dread (concretely): — fear(-ed).

People who make "worship" in the words of one consist of SHOCK AND AWE should be aware that:

Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb. 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

God has little to no toleration of fools.

Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 13:38:47 »
If, as suggested by the OP that fear is a sin.

Then what about...

Mathew 10:28 KJV
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2 Corinthians 7:1 KJV
7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Translation errors?

No, not at all. Fear is used in different senses in the scripture. Later we shall consider this point.

Read carefully please.....the OP said people die "OF" fear which is not what the scriptures teach.
Quote from: OP
I only killed 100, all the others died of fear!”
They did not die OF fear, but fear was the spirit that ruled them!
« Last Edit: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 13:43:40 by RB »

Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #11 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 13:49:38 »
CALVINIST DENY THAT.
This thread requested...
Quote
Let's talk about fear:
Not Calvinism.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #12 on: Tue Jun 26, 2018 - 14:47:57 »
I'm your backup man: you pick a verse and I fill in the CONTEXT so people won't worry about you. ::playingguitar::

Online RB

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Re: Let's talk about fear:
« Reply #13 on: Thu Jun 28, 2018 - 04:32:21 »
I'm your backup man: you pick a verse and I fill in the CONTEXT so people won't worry about you.
“The spirit of bondage works by fear for the slave fears the rod: but love cries, Abba, Father; it disposes us to go to God, and behave ourselves towards God as children; and it gives us clear evidence of our union to God as His children, and so casts out fear. So that it appears that the witness of the Spirit the apostle speaks of, is far from being any whisper, or immediate suggestion or revelation; but that gracious holy effect of the Spirit of God in the hearts of the saints, the disposition and temper of children, appearing in sweet childlike love to God, which casts out fear or a spirit of a slave.”  ~Jonathan Edwards,  taken from "The Religious Affection"

One of the greatest works ever given to the Christian community alone with John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian religion....one does not have to agree with every point of either to agree that both works are Christian's masterpieces. Calvin was only 26 when he wrote his work and Edwards was 46 when he wrote and published..... The Religious Affection. 

My question to you is can you tell me and others seeking to know~"WHO" is the fearful of Revelation 21:8? If you cannot, then ask your friends 4WD and soterion .....but he needs to do a better job than what he said last time here:
Quote from: soterion Sun Jun 24, 2018 - 18:50:09
The fearful are those who may believe and make confession, but do not endure so as to overcome, but back out in times of testing; they do not keep faith
Am sure that many of the fearful in Revelation 21:8 were churchgoers, but INWARDLY THOUGHT and LIVE outwardly just like the world around them thought and lived possessing the SAME ideology. 

Now to soterion credit he at least attempted to answer and kept his thoughts on the subject under consideration which you seem to have a little hard time of doing.
« Last Edit: Thu Jun 28, 2018 - 04:37:59 by RB »

 

     
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