Author Topic: What is the evidence that God created the Universe? (Read 504 times)

surrendersacrifice · « **on:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 14:30:26 »

God is love. Love is bond which hold together people by seeking the good of others. Love results in harmony and peace. The universe is made of matter in the form of solid, liquid and gases. The tiniest particle of matter is an atom. It is held together by bonds to form visible matter. Without bonds it will not exist. Atom is made of tinier particles called electrons, neutrons, and protons. Electrons are almost massless. Neutron and protons are made of tinier particles which in turn are made of almost massless particle that are held together by bonds. Even life processes exist, because of chemical reaction, which in turn occur because of bonds. Furthermore, the universe, and the heavenly bodies in it are kept in perfect harmony by bonds. The structure of a cell with a nucleus at its center and organelle around it, a planetary system with the sun at its center and planets around it, and the nucleus of an atom with particles around it have similar structural pattern. It is therefore the same bond that brought them into existence which governs everything that exists. If the bond (who is God), let go of matter it will disappear, as it does in the black holes. On the other hand, if God wills it, matter will come into existence. Therefore, newer universes are continually being created. Furthermore, in charged particles there is polarity, of positive and negative; each complementing the other to produce action (in the case of a motor) and light (in the case of a bulb. In living entities there exist polarity in form of sexes- male and female, with one complementing the other to procreate new entities. These facts show us that a single force (the bond of love) is the creator of everything that exist. Therefore, if we are in sync with God by accepting love as our life, we will always exist and be in harmony with each other. On the other hand, if we reject love, our spirit will be dead and in the total darkness of the black holes which are totally devoid of light and in total disarray.
The fullness of God’s love is seen in Jesus, who accepted death on cross to heal those who betrayed and killed him. The message of the cross is: “I will not give up on you my friend irrespective of how badly you treat me or betray me. The more you hurt me, the more I will love you”. I will give up everything, including my own life (on the cross) to bring you back to God. He, therefore, is the bond of love for the whole human race.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **on:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 14:30:26 »

Alan · « **Reply #1 on:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 17:16:34 »

As much as these words appear to have similarities to the nature of God, I can't see any compelling evidence here to present a case for God to the unbeliever. If you are a believer it seems reasonable but it requires faith to fill in the blanks. The Bible continually points us toward faith for nothing builds a stronger belief than possessing an unwavering faith in the things we cannot see. To date, no one has been successful in presenting absolute irrefutable evidence for God, or creation for that matter. To the believer that possesses faith, the evidence is all around us.

Reformer · « **Reply #2 on:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 20:27:01 »

Alan:

“To date, no one has been successful in presenting absolute irrefutable evidence for God, or creation for that matter. To the believer that possesses faith, the evidence is all around us.”
_____

I’ve never seen George Washington or Abraham Lincoln. I’ve never touched them. I've never been in their personal presence. I’ve never heard their messages. Nonetheless, I believe they did most of the things history attributes to them. I base my faith on external and internal evidence. Not only do we have their own testimony, but the testimony of numerous others who were contemporary to their time and who wrote about them.

We do not question the soundness of the witnesses who attested to their existence, nor doubt their credibility. We accept what has been reported about them as honorable and credible. Therefore, who among us questions the former existence of Washington and Lincoln? Even if neither had ever written a word, we would still believe both men served as Chief Commanders of this once great Republic, based upon the testimony of eyewitnesses who wrote about them.

Here is where I’m coming from: We have copious testimony about the man Jesus from numerous eyewitnesses—His birth by a young virgin, His life, His teachings, His compassion, His wisdom, His miraculous wonders, His rejection, His agonizing death on a Roman tree, and finally His resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven. Why are many so reluctant to accept the attestations of these eyewitnesses? I think the chief reason is because they have not examined their testimony painstakingly, thoughtfully, and deliberately.

Furthermore, we are forever exposed to the effects of His existence, both past and present. There is no effect or result without a cause, and no cause that does not produce an effect. My hand casts a shadow on the wall. The hand is the cause, the shadow is the effect—or result. No hand, no shadow.

To confirm that God exists, we need only look out upon our universe and its vast array. God is the Cause, the universe is the effect. Additionally, all of the moral and spiritual qualities in and around us are the result of a specific Cause—the God of creation. This is “irrefutable evidence!”

So, where does all of this lead us? Simply, just as we have the effects of Washington’s and Lincoln’s existence, so too we have the effects—irrefutable evidence—of Jesus and God’s existence. To deny one is to deny the other.

Buff

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #2 on:** Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 20:27:01 »

Alan · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 08:28:15 »

Quote from: Reformer on Sun Sep 20, 2020 - 20:27:01

I’ve never seen George Washington or Abraham Lincoln. I’ve never touched them. I've never been in their personal presence. I’ve never heard their messages. Nonetheless, I believe they did most of the things history attributes to them. I base my faith on external and internal evidence. Not only do we have their own testimony, but the testimony of numerous others who were contemporary to their time and who wrote about them.

We do not question the soundness of the witnesses who attested to their existence, nor doubt their credibility. We accept what has been reported about them as honorable and credible. Therefore, who among us questions the former existence of Washington and Lincoln? Even if neither had ever written a word, we would still believe both men served as Chief Commanders of this once great Republic, based upon the testimony of eyewitnesses who wrote about them.

Here is where I’m coming from: We have copious testimony about the man Jesus from numerous eyewitnesses—His birth by a young virgin, His life, His teachings, His compassion, His wisdom, His miraculous wonders, His rejection, His agonizing death on a Roman tree, and finally His resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven. Why are many so reluctant to accept the attestations of these eyewitnesses? I think the chief reason is because they have not examined their testimony painstakingly, thoughtfully, and deliberately.

Furthermore, we are forever exposed to the effects of His existence, both past and present. There is no effect or result without a cause, and no cause that does not produce an effect. My hand casts a shadow on the wall. The hand is the cause, the shadow is the effect—or result. No hand, no shadow.

To confirm that God exists, we need only look out upon our universe and its vast array. God is the Cause, the universe is the effect. Additionally, all of the moral and spiritual qualities in and around us are the result of a specific Cause—the God of creation. This is “irrefutable evidence!”

So, where does all of this lead us? Simply, just as we have the effects of Washington’s and Lincoln’s existence, so too we have the effects—irrefutable evidence—of Jesus and God’s existence. To deny one is to deny the other.

Buff

There is little reason to doubt the existence of Washington and Lincoln. Most Historians, regardless of their faith would agree that much of the biblical accounts of the people mentioned are true for the most part. Your analogy falls short when you enter the existence of all life and matter and how it came to be, and no, merely looking around us at the presence of life and matter does not prove God's existence.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 08:28:15 »

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Reformer · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 13:19:04 »

Alan:

“...and no, merely looking around us at the presence of life and matter does not prove God’s existence.”
_____

“For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [pagans] are without excuse”—Paul, Rom. 1:20.

Buff

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 13:19:04 »

Alan · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 17:07:34 »

Quote from: Reformer on Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 13:19:04

Alan:

“...and no, merely looking around us at the presence of life and matter does not prove God’s existence.”
_____

“For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [pagans] are without excuse”—Paul, Rom. 1:20.

Buff

Wonderful verse but it applies to believers and means little to the non-believer.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 17:07:34 »

Reformer · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon Sep 21, 2020 - 22:31:15 »

Alan:

Final note. Review the context, beginning with verse 18 of Romans, chapter 1.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth...Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles."

These are NOT the "symptoms" of believers; rather, they are the symptoms of the pagans in Paul's day.

Furthermore, if you will evaluate the remainder of that chapter, beginning with verse 24, you should see for certain Paul is referencing non-believers, not those who have accepted the God of salvation.

Buff

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