GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Donate | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter

Author Topic: Where Did The Gentiles Come From  (Read 9741 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« on: February 14, 2008, 03:36:30 PM »
Do you know where the Gentiles came from?  Who was the first Gentile?

dayspring (Bonnie)

Christian Forums and Message Board

Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« on: February 14, 2008, 03:36:30 PM »

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 03:38:39 PM »
Adam.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 03:38:39 PM »

Tantor

  • Guest
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 03:48:55 PM »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 03:48:55 PM »

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 04:01:57 PM »
I guess you could say that from the time of Jacob (named Israel) forward... anyone not in that lineage would be considered a Gentile.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 04:01:57 PM »

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 04:21:40 PM »
I guess you could say that from the time of Jacob (named Israel) forward... anyone not in that lineage would be considered a Gentile.

Big thanks for your reply.  I remember that Jacob took a wife from among the Gentiles.
Maybe the start of them just isn't in the bible.

dayspring (Bonnie)

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 04:21:40 PM »



Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 04:24:32 PM »
I guess you could say that from the time of Jacob (named Israel) forward... anyone not in that lineage would be considered a Gentile.

Big thanks for your reply.  I remember that Jacob took a wife from among the Gentiles.
Maybe the start of them just isn't in the bible.

dayspring (Bonnie)

But, see, before Jacob (or arguably more specifically, before Abraham), everyone was a Gentile.  Or, maybe more accurately, there were neither Jews nor Gentiles.  There were just the people who lived back then who were the ancestors of the Jews and Gentiles.

Gentiles, as is conventionally meant by that term, simply means non-Jewish or non-Hebrew.  If we say that Jews are the descendents of Israel/Jacob, then before Jacob, the "Jews" didn't exist. 

Of course, the word "Gentiles" only has meaning in the context of there being "Jews."  Before the "Jews," there was really neither Jew nor Gentile.  There were just people.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 04:24:32 PM »

Offline Harold

  • Love Peace Joy
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
  • Manna: 144
  • Gender: Male
  • Therefore let us stop passing judgment
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 04:31:52 PM »
I like the Abraham version myself, the circumcision of the Jews came from God's covenant with Abraham. They were the children of the promise. But all in all DCR is correct also.

FTL

Offline DCR

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11300
  • Manna: 432
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 04:39:16 PM »
I like the Abraham version myself, the circumcision of the Jews came from God's covenant with Abraham. They were the children of the promise. But all in all DCR is correct also.

FTL

Then, we'll say that Abraham is the starting point.  Of course, one difficulty there is the question of Ishmael and his descendents.  They are also descendents of Abraham... yet, I think most would consider them to be "Gentiles."

If you really want to get technical... I believe that "Jews" are actually descended from Judah (or at least the surviving tribes after the captivity)... and the term didn't really come into use until some time around and after the Babylonian Captivity and/or the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel (in contrast to the southern kingdom of "Judah").

 ::pondering::

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 04:39:54 PM »
I guess you could say that from the time of Jacob (named Israel) forward... anyone not in that lineage would be considered a Gentile.

Big thanks for your reply.  I remember that Jacob took a wife from among the Gentiles.
Maybe the start of them just isn't in the bible.

dayspring (Bonnie)

But, see, before Jacob (or arguably more specifically, before Abraham), everyone was a Gentile.  Or, maybe more accurately, there were neither Jews nor Gentiles.  There were just the people who lived back then who were the ancestors of the Jews and Gentiles.

Gentiles, as is conventionally meant by that term, simply means non-Jewish or non-Hebrew.  If we say that Jews are the descendents of Israel/Jacob, then before Jacob, the "Jews" didn't exist. 

Of course, the word "Gentiles" only has meaning in the context of there being "Jews."  Before the "Jews," there was really neither Jew nor Gentile.  There were just people.

That rings a bell.  God told Abram to get out of the land of his kinsmen and go to a land He would show him. (His father and his kinsmen being evil.)

I never knew why Lot got to come along but I assume he must have been under Abram's care, as in his household.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 04:39:54 PM »

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 04:40:56 PM »
I like the Abraham version myself, the circumcision of the Jews came from God's covenant with Abraham. They were the children of the promise. But all in all DCR is correct also.

FTL

True!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 04:40:56 PM »

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 04:50:41 PM »
I like the Abraham version myself, the circumcision of the Jews came from God's covenant with Abraham. They were the children of the promise. But all in all DCR is correct also.

FTL

Then, we'll say that Abraham is the starting point.  Of course, one difficulty there is the question of Ishmael and his descendants.  They are also descendent's of Abraham... yet, I think most would consider them to be "Gentiles."

If you really want to get technical... I believe that "Jews" are actually descended from Judah (or at least the surviving tribes after the captivity)... and the term didn't really come into use until some time around and after the Babylonian Captivity and/or the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel.

 ::pondering::


I'm sure hoping to learn because most of this goes completely over my head.
God did make a promise to Ishmael and his descendants also, didn't he?
Perhaps the Muslims are his descendants.?
And the Jews came from Isaac.?

dayspring

Offline Harold

  • Love Peace Joy
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3057
  • Manna: 144
  • Gender: Male
  • Therefore let us stop passing judgment
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 05:24:42 PM »
I like the Abraham version myself, the circumcision of the Jews came from God's covenant with Abraham. They were the children of the promise. But all in all DCR is correct also.

FTL

Then, we'll say that Abraham is the starting point.  Of course, one difficulty there is the question of Ishmael and his descendants.  They are also descendent's of Abraham... yet, I think most would consider them to be "Gentiles."

If you really want to get technical... I believe that "Jews" are actually descended from Judah (or at least the surviving tribes after the captivity)... and the term didn't really come into use until some time around and after the Babylonian Captivity and/or the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel.

 ::pondering::


I'm sure hoping to learn because most of this goes completely over my head.
God did make a promise to Ishmael and his descendants also, didn't he?
Perhaps the Muslims are his descendants.?
And the Jews came from Isaac.?

dayspring

Ishmael was not a child of the Messianic promise, but the child of God's promise to Hagar.

Isaac was the child of God's promise to Abraham and Sarah. As DCR pointed out from Judah, the son of Israel/Jacob, would come the Messiah.

All who are not Jewish by birth are gentiles.

FTL

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2008, 06:16:19 PM »
I like the Abraham version myself, the circumcision of the Jews came from God's covenant with Abraham. They were the children of the promise. But all in all DCR is correct also.

FTL

Then, we'll say that Abraham is the starting point.  Of course, one difficulty there is the question of Ishmael and his descendants.  They are also descendent's of Abraham... yet, I think most would consider them to be "Gentiles."

If you really want to get technical... I believe that "Jews" are actually descended from Judah (or at least the surviving tribes after the captivity)... and the term didn't really come into use until some time around and after the Babylonian Captivity and/or the destruction of the northern kingdom of Israel.

 ::pondering::


I'm sure hoping to learn because most of this goes completely over my head.
God did make a promise to Ishmael and his descendants also, didn't he?
Perhaps the Muslims are his descendants.?
And the Jews came from Isaac.?

dayspring

Ishmael was not a child of the Messianic promise, but the child of God's promise to Hagar.

Isaac was the child of God's promise to Abraham and Sarah. As DCR pointed out from Judah, the son of Israel/Jacob, would come the Messiah.

All who are not Jewish by birth are gentiles.

FTL


Hi Harold,

Sarah, Abraham's wife, is the one who had Abraham go into her handmaiden, Hagar.  Sarah, I think was a bit impatient and unbelieving at first that she would be blessed with a child at her age.



Offline Jimbob

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21530
  • Manna: 439
  • Gender: Male
  • vigil et audax
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2008, 10:51:23 AM »
And to the question about Ishmael and Muslims, that is indeed their claim.  And, it would sure seem to  Ishmael and his descendants (both pre/post Mohammad) have lived at enmity with Israel throughout history thus far, have they not?  Prophecy fulfilled, istm.

Quote
Genesis 16:12 Holman CSB:
This man will be [like] a wild ass. His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; he will live at odds with all his brothers.

Offline Bonnie

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8593
  • Manna: 358
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Where Did The Gentiles Come From
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2008, 11:15:07 AM »
And to the question about Ishmael and Muslims, that is indeed their claim.  And, it would sure seem to  Ishmael and his descendants (both pre/post Mohammad) have lived at enmity with Israel throughout history thus far, have they not?  Prophecy fulfilled, istm.



Quote
Genesis 16:12 Holman CSB:
This man will be [like] a wild ass. His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand will be against him; he will live at odds with all his brothers.


The problem is that both sides believe themselves to be right?  And, so they fight, and probably will until Christ puts an end to it.

dayspring (Bonnie)