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Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #175 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:16:13 »
RB... I change if need be.  You cling on to your boastings, conventionalism and false ideas.  I have never, never, never met someone as obnoxious as you are.  You are not a Christian inside or outside but a load mouth.  I have met criminals with a better spirit than you.  You are a bitter old man that is toxic and insecure and a poor example of a Christian or a human being.   
No, the truth is, you cannot answer my post and because of that you MUST resort to such talk. IF I was close enough to you, you would do just as the Pharisees did to Christ, pick up stones and try to stone me. When people have no answers, then like you, they begin to show their true nature! They must eliminate those men and women that can expose them for what they are worth.
Quote from: Truthcomber Reply #174 on: Today at 05:09:44
I change if need be
Repentance is a gift from God, no one can or will UNLESS it is given to them~Titus 2:25. One more thought:
Quote from: Truthcomber Reply #174 on: Today at 05:09:44
You are a bitter old man that is toxic and insecure
Old, yes; toxic, yes, to men like you;  insecure? There's not a bone in my body that would agree with you on that!
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:25:46 by RB »

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #175 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:16:13 »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #176 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:53:30 »
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 
This is not you by far.  I have my bad points also, but recognize them and try to be better.  I find this almost impossible with you around.

Matt 7:15… sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. ..22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Are you a humble person or are you a proud, vain person?

The reason why something I do not answer your post is that I do not want to wade in the swill with you, but I try to resist you.   It is paradoxical,  but I find people that are not of the “church” better human beings than those inside it.  And you are no exception.

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #176 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:53:30 »

Offline Truthcomber

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #177 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:58:58 »
I do answer others posts, but resist yours.

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #177 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 05:58:58 »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #178 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 06:36:33 »
If you have a degree in Theology they learned you at babble school.   
Like so much else, you insist on continuing in ignorance when the truth is put before you.  That use of the word "learn" displays a lack of proficiency with the English language.  And you accuse others of attending Babble School.  Amazing.

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #178 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 06:36:33 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #179 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 06:59:10 »
Also, how did Christ not inherit death and sin from his lineage?
He didn't and, as soterion noted, neither does anyone else. 

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #179 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 06:59:10 »



Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #180 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:07:07 »
Hi Soteron, BTR, Ken and All,



Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Comment: Let’s say that Christ was made in every way that we were, yet without sin based upon the verse above.

Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
 
Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Comment: It seems that Christ was made so much higher than the angels in Phil 2:10 but a little lower than angels in Heb 2:7. So we need to reconcile the two scriptures above.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_than_the_angels

Quote: The original phrase is drawn from Psalms 8:5, however the author of Hebrews follows the Greek of the Septuagint with the reading "lower than the angels" (Hebrews 2:7) instead of the Hebrew "lower than God."[1] The original Hebrew text is usually construed as "you made him [man] lower than God", while the Septuagint has the meaning "you made him [man] lower than the angels".[2]


Septuagint version:

Psalm 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/psalms/8-5.htm

http://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/8-5.htm

Notice the original Hebrew definition and not the Septuagint definition of H430 is God, and not angels in the link below.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/430.htm

If the word Elohim is singular plural intensive, it defines Yahweh and not angels.  Elohim is the plural in number rendering of Elohim and can be defined as angels.  But it has to be the plural intensive form because Christ was not made a little lower than angels in the flesh and so much higher than they as a spirit being. 

Thus, the rendering of Phil 2:10 should be:


Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the God for (by) the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

This is future tense and pertains to after Christ had ascended into heaven and glorified.  Thus, Christ is not God, but a little lower than.



Good work. Beware of the scribes. All versions will have some sort of bend to them, the newer versions do it even more so.


Quote: "The verse does not say he was made in every way like us.  He did not have sin in his flesh, for example.  I now believe that he was made “like or similar” unto sinful flesh, but without sin.  If you have a deeper explanation, I am open to hear it."


We do not inherit Adams sin, we are sinners because we sin or have sinned. Jesus simply did not sin. I dont have time to serch ot verses now as I have to go to work, but here is a link.

http://www.bible.ca/cal-T-refutation.htm


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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #180 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:07:07 »

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #181 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:11:34 »
Are you a humble person or are you a proud, vain person?
Sir, deal with the post (NOT with personalities) where we proved that Jesus was God manifest in human flesh~called the "The MYSTERY of godliness"~a mystery that is still hidden from your understanding. God is my judge, not you, and we know that his judgment is just. Your questions sound like the Pharisees speaking to Jesus~read John 8. I will say this before moving on~by nature we ALL are proud and vain, and even after being born of the Spirit, the old man is STILL with us. So, based on that none of us are free from such sins.
Quote from: Mr. Pharisees
but I find people that are not of the “church” better human beings than those inside it.  And you are no exception.
Well now, you do not know me, and even if you did, you are judging my heart when you do not know my heart! All you do know is that my doctrine is totally different than yours and that doctrine exposes your doctrine to be straight out of the pits of darkness from the king of the bottomless pit.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #182 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:12:19 »
RB

I change if need be.  You cling on to your boastings, conventionalism and false ideas.  I have never, never, never met someone as obnoxious as you are.  You are not a Christian inside or outside but a load mouth.  I have met criminals with a better spirit than you.  You are a bitter old man that is toxic and insecure and a poor example of a Christian or a human being.   
You described yourself.  James talked about you in James 1:23-24:

For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #183 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:33:57 »
You may or may not have noticed that the life of Jesus is parallel to that of Joseph.  Mary understood that Jesus as a SON had a purpose.  Without understanding, maybe, she like Timothy's ladies PREPARED Him like godly people.   Jewish lads could be a scholar by 12 but Jesus understood that SON also meas Student of the Pater.

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, (Courts)
        sitting in the midst of the doctors,
        both hearing them,
        and asking them questions.

Luke 2:47 And all that heard him
        were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed:
        and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us?
         behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me?
        wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?
Luke 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
Luke 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth,
        and was subject unto them:

Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in WISDOM and STATURE,
        and in favour with God and man.


LUCKY JESUS ATTEND A MODERN "CHURCH"

Acts 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their RULERS,
        because they knew him not,
        nor yet the voices of the prophets
        which are read every sabbath day,
        they have fulfilled them in condemning him

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
        them that PREACH him,
        being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

IT IS EASY TO DETECT PEOPLE PURPOSE DRIVEN TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT NO ONE FOLLOWS IN THE STEPS OF JESUS.


« Last Edit: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:45:57 by Kenneth Sublett »

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #183 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 07:33:57 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #184 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 08:03:18 »


COUNT THE SECONDS BEFORE THEY TRY TO BURY WHAT JESUS WAS AND TAUGHT LIKE A BONE,.

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #185 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 14:54:10 »
Good work.
Denying Jesus' deity is a good work?

You men have another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 11:4~"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Your created Jesus is not worthy to be worship, fear and certainly not to defended.
Quote from: BTR on: Today at 07:07:07
Quote: "The verse does not say he was made in every way like us.  He did not have sin in his flesh, for example.  I now believe that he was made “like or similar” unto sinful flesh, but without sin.  If you have a deeper explanation, I am open to hear it."
We have already given one to you and you did not hear it, nor desire to consider it. Once more.....
Quote from: RB on: Today at 04:11:35
Jesus' divine and the human natures, were identified in his person, as the one Mediator between God and man; equally related to, and identified with both. On the one point, embodying all the fullness of the infinite and eternal Godhead; and on the other, he took on him the seed of Abraham, with all our infirmities, liabilities and responsibilities. In these two distinct, yet consolidated natures he fully represented and embodied all things which are in him in heaven, and all things on earth that belong to his mystical body.
This truth cannot be presented any clearer and more scriptural than this statement if so prove it.
Quote
We do not inherit Adams sin, we are sinners because we sin or have sinned. Jesus simply did not sin. I don't have time to search for verses now as I have to go to work, but here is a link. http://www.bible.ca/cal-T-refutation.htm
When you return back home, you still will not be able to find any scriptures supporting your false views. Well no surprise that you embraced another error, it goes with the territory. But I forbear sidetracking this thread proving that lie.

Btw, the site link you posted preaches against your doctrine on Jesus' deity. Strange you would post this link that also condemns you in your doctrine. Inconsistency is the Hallmark of error.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 16:59:50 by RB »

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #186 on: Mon Apr 30, 2018 - 16:59:58 »
Quote RB:
"Quote from: BTR on: Today at 07:07:07
Quote: "The verse does not say he was made in every way like us.  He did not have sin in his flesh, for example.  I now believe that he was made “like or similar” unto sinful flesh, but without sin.  If you have a deeper explanation, I am open to hear it."


These are not my words, this is truthcombers post. I believe the Word of God and the Word says He was made like us in every respect, unlike yourself.

and as far as the link I posted for him, that isnt my words either, it just had some information about refuting the total depravity heresy.

and you can quote your high calvinist church fathers till your red in the face, I would not listen to nor even read that garbage.


Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #187 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 04:05:44 »
and as far as the link I posted for him, that isnt my words either, it just had some information about refuting the total depravity heresy.
I know whose post it was, but you still agree with it and reposted it.

Well, the site STILL refuted your heresy of denying Jesus' deity, even though they did a weak job doing so, but credit to them, they try. They did even a weaker job of attempting to deny total depravity. But, that's for another day.
Quote from: BTR Yesterday at 16:59:58
and you can quote your high calvinist church fathers till your red in the face, I would not listen to nor even read that garbage.
That's your choice, and it shows that you refuse to even consider them or even test them~of course I know why you and others would not test them with scriptures, because the word of God is on their side and those men were more than able to defend their doctrine, unlike the effeminate preachers of our day.

Why do you not at least test these words with God's testimony?
Quote
Jesus' divine and the human natures, were identified in his person, as the one Mediator between God and man; equally related to, and identified with both. On the one point, embodying all the fullness of the infinite and eternal Godhead; and on the other, he took on him the seed of Abraham, with all our infirmities, liabilities and responsibilities. In these "two" distinct, yet consolidated natures he fully represented and embodied all things which are in him in heaven, and all things on earth that belong to his mystical body.
You have read them three times now, test them IF you can....I'm waiting.
« Last Edit: Tue May 01, 2018 - 04:08:29 by RB »

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #188 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:07:48 »
I don't care how you slice it RB. Jesus had/has a God and that God is His Father, the same God and Father that we have. God is the Father, He alone is God and Jesus is His SON.

Obviously this is getting nowhere and rather than bash each other, as it seems to be coming to. I'm going to leave.
« Last Edit: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:29:10 by BTR »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #189 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:14:31 »
I don't care how you slice it RB. Jesus had/has a God and that God is His Father, the same God and Father that we have. God is the Father, He alone is God and Jesus is His SON.

Obviously this is getting nowhere and rather than bash each other, as it seems to be coming to, I'm not going to leave.

BTR,
Are you saying that Jesus is not divine; that Jesus is not a divine being?  Are you saying that only the Father is God?

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #190 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:36:18 »
BTR, Are you saying that Jesus is not divine; that Jesus is not a divine being?  Are you saying that only the Father is God?
He's saying both.

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #191 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:43:21 »
BTR,
Are you saying that Jesus is not divine; that Jesus is not a divine being?  Are you saying that only the Father is God?

Jesus is divine. Jesus is Gods Son. The Father is God. God is His God and our God, His Father and our Father.


Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father;
but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” -Jhn.20:17

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #192 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:45:27 »
I don't care how you slice it RB. Jesus had/has a God and that God is His Father, the same God and Father that we have. God is the Father, He alone is God and Jesus is His SON.
Let us slice ...(divide) where God's word does, shall we?

In his humanity, God was BOTH his Father and his God...in his deity, he IS the everlasting Father of all things. Isaiah 9:6
Quote from: BTR Today at 07:07:48
He alone is God and Jesus is His SON
You are wrong~the reason why you are is that you REFUSED to understand Jesus' complex nature that has been clearly explained more than once to you and you will not even attempt to disprove it. Let me ask you this simple question: "WHO was manifest in the flesh according to John 1:14 and 1st Timothy 3:16 along with hundreds of more scriptures? Will you please answer this question. Maybe we can make some progress if you at least attempt to answer this question. 

I must run, for now, be back later, so take your time.

« Last Edit: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:47:47 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #193 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:47:29 »
He's saying both.
That is what it seemed to me.  Hard to believe that anyone calling himself a Christian would believe that.  Why would anyone worship anyone not God?  But then, maybe he doesn't worship Jesus Christ.

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #194 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 07:50:21 »
Jesus is divine. Jesus is Gods Son. The Father is God. God is His God and our God, His Father and our Father.


Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father;
but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” -Jhn.20:17
So then are you saying that there is a divine being other than God?  Surely not!

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #195 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 16:08:36 »
Let us slice ...(divide) where God's word does, shall we?

In his humanity, God was BOTH his Father and his God...in his deity, he IS the everlasting Father of all things. Isaiah 9:6You are wrong~the reason why you are is that you REFUSED to understand Jesus' complex nature that has been clearly explained more than once to you and you will not even attempt to disprove it. Let me ask you this simple question: "WHO was manifest in the flesh according to John 1:14 and 1st Timothy 3:16 along with hundreds of more scriptures? Will you please answer this question. Maybe we can make some progress if you at least attempt to answer this question. 

I must run, for now, be back later, so take your time.

Ok RB. God was manifested in the flesh. So what do you do with all the scriptures that say Us, We and both? or when Paul acknowledges both in his letters. Do you ignore them?

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son
-2Jhn. 1:9

Or this? But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;

and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
-Acts 7:55,56
« Last Edit: Tue May 01, 2018 - 16:53:34 by BTR »

Offline fish153

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #196 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 18:31:43 »
BTR and others---you are being very foolish and willfully ignorant.  I have posted the below before---but I will post it again. The LORD says that "unto HIM every knee will
bow, and every tongue shall swear (confess)
"

Paul uses the exact same wording when he states "that to JESUS EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND TONGUE CONFESS"

Then we read that Jehovah states HE WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER.  So, I have to ask, if Jehovah is allowing everyone in Heaven and Earth to BOW to Jesus,
is He not allowing ANOTHER to receive HIs glory?

Or----just maybe Jesus IS Jehovah. If God is a trinity then if Jesus is being worshiped, the Father and the Spirit are being worshiped also.  Maybe that is why Revelation calls
God's throne THE THRONE OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB.  But wait a second----if it's the Throne of God AND of the Lamb isn't God SHARING His glory?  He would be doing and allowing
what He said He would NEVER DO.

Wake up you who deny the Deity of Jesus and let the three below groups of verses sink in. They clearly state what you deny.

Jehovah says:
"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto ME every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear". (Isaiah 45:23)

"that at thename of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father". (Phil. 2:10,11)

"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else", (Isaiah 42:8)

« Last Edit: Tue May 01, 2018 - 18:35:06 by fish153 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #197 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 19:03:35 »
Is. 45:23 I have sworn by myself,
        the WORD is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, a
        nd shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

The Word (Dabar or Logos) was breathed out by God the Father by JESUS OF NAZARETH.

Is. 45:24 Surely, shall one say,
        in the Lord [YHWH] have I righteousness and strength:
        even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Is. 45:25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Phil. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,
        and given him a NAME which is above every name:
Phil. 2:10 That at the NAME OF JESUS knee should bow,
       of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phil. 2:11 And that every tongue SHOULD CONFESS
         that Jesus Christ is LORD , (Kurios NOT Theos or YHWH)
         to the glory of GOD THE FATHER .

IF YOU CONFESS THAT JESUS IS THE THEOS (YHWH) You need to go back to square one.

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #198 on: Tue May 01, 2018 - 20:02:09 »
Quote:"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else", (Isaiah 42:8)

No one else but the person He is referring to in the verses right above that one.


“I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness,
I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,
And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the nations,

To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the dungeon
And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
  Isa. 42:6,7

That would be His Son.

“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; -Jhn.17:22 

I dont think he means we are God also. Just as We are one.

« Last Edit: Tue May 01, 2018 - 20:05:44 by BTR »

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #199 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 05:23:12 »
Ok RB. God was manifested in the flesh. So what do you do with all the scriptures that say Us, We and both? or when Paul acknowledges both in his letters. Do you ignore them?
Before God, we have never ignored scriptures, and we cannot if it's truly our desire to know the truth on any given doctrine~we must before God seek to reconcile all of them on the particular doctrine under consideration.
Quote from: BTR Reply #195 on: Yesterday at 16:08:36
Ok RB. God was manifested in the flesh. So what do you do with all the scriptures that say Us, We and both? or when Paul acknowledges both in his letters. Do you ignore them?
The only way that we can understand those seemly problem texts is for the student of the scriptures to do just as Paul commanded us to do~
Quote from: Paul
2nd Timothy 2:15~"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"
Paul learned this form Ezra:
Quote from: Nehemiah
Nehemiah 8:4-8~"And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam. And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up: And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place. So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading."
So, we must study, so that we can be able to rightly divide, or give the proper sense to what we are reading and teaching others, so both can understand the reading of the word of God.
Quote from: BTR Reply #195 on: Yesterday at 16:08:36
Ok RB. God was manifested in the flesh. So what do you do with all the scriptures that say Us, We and both? or when Paul acknowledges both in his letters. Do you ignore them?
It not that difficult, truly it is NOT that difficult. When we read where Jesus calls God his God, then we understand he speaking concerning his humanity of being the Son of MAN~Jesus of Nazareth, the son of David, BOTH through Joseph (his suppose father) and Mary his mother~Luke three. When he said that he and his Father are ONE, then we understand that he is speaking of his Godhead/Deity.    This is called rightly dividing the word of truth so that we can come unto the knowledge of the truth, that would keep us from being ashamed before those who have truth on the doctrine under consideration.
Quote
2nd John 1:9~Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son
He that sinneth against the doctrine concerning Jesus Christ and does not abide in THIS TRUTH concerning the scriptures that reveals to us the fullness of the Godhead that dwelled IN HIM of which testimony he received From GOD'S WORD or his Father delivered to his apostles, and of which he is the sum and substance of ALL of God's testiomny to us; the doctrine which is concerning his person as the Son of God, and as truly God, and the union of the two natures, divine and human, in his one person; and concerning his office, as the Mediator, surety, and messenger of the covenant, and as the prophet, priest, and King of his church; and concerning his incarnation, obedience, sufferings, death, resurrection from the dead, ascension to heaven, session at God's right hand, intercession for his people, and second coming to judgment; concerning peace and pardon by his blood, atonement by his sacrifice, justification by his righteousness, and complete salvation by him. Now, whoever has embraced and professed this doctrine, but errs concerning it, and rejects it, and abides not in it, as Satan abode not in the truth, gives evidence to be of him~because John said....hath not God~ but the devil, the father of lies; he has no true knowledge of God, for there is none but in Christ...the KEY that we have true knowledge is based upon our true understanding of CHRIST, the Son of God. Those who have a false understanding of Jesus' deity their doctrine in truth truly deny Christ; and does not possess Christ, nor can he, have communion with him, nor any interest in him...but do not know him. But, he that abideth in the doctrine of Christ as he hath received and professed it; neither can anything remove him from it, not the arguments of false teachers, nor the reproaches and persecutions of men, or the snares and allurements of the world~THAT PERSON ALONE give true evidence he hath both the Father and the Son and has a true knowledge of each~God who is a Spirit that inhabeth eternity and His Son who was in his bosom of the Godhead as the ONE true God, the everlasting Father of all things.

With God NOTHING is impossible, even the mystery of godliness where God in his infinite wisdom manifested Himself to us in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who is the ONLY true God you and I will ever see with our eyes in that day.
Quote from: BTR Reply #195 on: Yesterday at 16:08:36
Or this? But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” -Acts 7:55,56
No problem with this seemly problem text. I ask you~Who is God? He is a SPIRIT, is he not? Jesus said that he was in John 4. Of course, we know that he is from many other scriptures. The only God that Steven saw WAS JESUS. Jesus being exalted to God's right hand ONLY means that he exalted AS HIGH as one can be exalted. There is a MAN in heaven HIGHLY EXALTED and that man is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is the true God and eternal life. Again the BIBLICAL doctrine of the Trinity is ONE GOD that is manifest as THREE ONLY according to EACH of their respective work in the redemption of the elect mystical body of Jesus Christ and according to THE ORDER of that work.

So, God is a SPIRIT, that will NEVER change, never! God has manifested himself to us THROUGH his Son Jesus Christ who IS the true God, the ONLY God any one will ever see, including the angels of God~when one sees Jesus, they SEE the TRUE GOD.

« Last Edit: Wed May 02, 2018 - 15:43:13 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #200 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 06:50:51 »
"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else", (Isaiah 42:8)

No one else but the person He is referring to in the verses right above that one.

“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; -Jhn.17:22 

I dont think he means we are God also. Just as We are one.

Let us consider this later on today if time permits, maybe in the morning would be better since I'm short on time.

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #201 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 06:59:16 »
RB,

I'm my walk I started out believing Jesus was God's Son. Then the church told me they are a trinity, so I believed them. Then I started reading the Word of God for myself and found out from the Word that the trinity is false, so I went back to seeing the truth that Jesus is Gods Son.
So I stopped going to church and started walking with God. Then I came here and someone told me what you just posted and I thought man these guys are telling me I will lose my salvation if I don't believe this way, so I went with it, not the trinity, but what your teaching. Thinking maybe I was missing something, but it was just fear.

Then I took a break from listing to everybody else and I kept reading the Word, praying for truth and I kept seeing that modalism is also wrong and what I learned from the Word of God was Jesus is Gods Son. I'm telling you the truth of the Word. The trinity and what you have been taught are false.

Here's where you put senses, spiritual, to verses, and not all passages need any senses, save common sense, put to them. most are strait forward.


Then He said to me, “Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.”

So I opened my mouth, and He fed me this scroll.He said to me, “Son of man, feed your stomach and fill your body with this scroll which I am giving you.” Then I ate it, and it was sweet as honey in my mouth.

Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them.
“For you are not being sent to a people of ]unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel,
nor to many peoples of  unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand.

But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate.
  -Isa.3:1-7


And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
-Rev.12:3,4

So the LORD cut off from Israel head and tail,
palm branch and reed in one day—

the elder and honored man is the head,
and the prophet who teaches lies is the tail;

for those who guide this people have been leading them astray,
and those who are guided by them are swallowed up.
  -Isa.9:14-16


Offline fish153

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #202 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 10:37:48 »
BTR---

You are correct.  Red does believe in what is called "modalism". He believes there is one God expressed and revealed in three persons.  But I do believe differently---I believe God has
always been a Trinity and has never changed.  Think again about the term "The Throne of God and of the Lamb". The Lamb is sitting on the Throne with the Father because the
Lamb is the God-man. He is God the Son.  God will never SHARE His throne with another. He that sits upon that throne MUST be God.

Isaiah 6 states that the Seraphim say continually "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the Lord God Almighty". Have you ever wondered why they say "HOLY" (3) times?  It is because there are eternally (3) Persons in ONE GOD.  I will say this BTR--the whole Gospel rests on Jesus being DEITY. If you do not believe that God became a man ("and the WORD became flesh" note: I John says "He that says that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh is of anti-christ")---John is literally saying that those who deny that God came in the flesh are preaching from an anti-christ spirit! you are believing "another Gospel".

It is very, very important that we understand and accept the true Gospel. The JW's preach "another Gospel"---it must be rejected.
« Last Edit: Wed May 02, 2018 - 10:40:43 by fish153 »

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #203 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 12:06:03 »
Quote
It is because there are eternally (3) PERSONS in ONE GOD.  I will say this BTR--the whole Gospel rests on Jesus being DEITY. If you do not believe that God became a man ("and the WORD became flesh

The Gospel RESTS absolutely on the confession that "Jesus is the CHRIST the SON of the Living God. Any school kid understands that WORD is what one SPEAKS. Jesus accused the CLERGY of blasphemy because HE always said that He was the SON of God. He BECAME the Son of God by Obedience in bapptism

God's Spirit (breath) and Word (Son) are always the NATURE of God as a Triad. God is many other things so that WORD is in the same class with SPIRIT, GRACE, LIGHT, RIGHTEOUSNES.

It was/is GOD'S will that Jesus of Nazareth be the LIVING IMAGE of all that God is to Himself. Contrary to the LU GURU God is not escstatic or OUT SIDE of Himself so that it takes THREE GODS to get anything done.

1Cor. 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified,
        unto the Jews a stumblingblock,
        and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Cor. 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks,
        Christ the POWER of God,
        and the WISDOM of God.
1Cor. 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men;
        and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Cor. 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren,
        how that not many wise men after the flesh,
        not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

God HIDES from the WISE or SOPHISTS who go beyond that which is written as speakers, singers, instrument players and others called parasites.

God SENDS His WORD by His Spirit (breath) to Prophets and His son but NOT to anyone who "goes beyond that which is written.

TO CALL GOD A "PERSON" IS BLASPHEMY AND NO TRINITARIAN EVER DID.

"There is much gnostic Marcionism in them, that is, a dualistic blasphemy of the Creator God. They put the Savior God in such opposition to the Creator God that, although they never fall into any real heresy, they implicitly blaspheme the divine creation by identifying it with the sinful state of reality.

    "Against this tendency Irenaeus said that God is one; there is no duality in him. Law and gospel, creation and salvation, are derived from the same God." (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 42)

"This God is never called a person. The word person was never applied to God in the Middle ages. The reason for this is that the three members of the trinity were called personae (faces or countenances): The Father is persona, the Son is persona, and the Spirit is persona. Persona here means a special characteristic of the divine ground, expressing itself in an independent hypostasis.

"Thus, we can say that it was the nineteenth century which made God into a person, with the result that the greatness of the classical idea of God was destroyed by this way of speaking... but to speak of God as a person would have been heretical for the Middle Ages; it would have been to them a Unitarian heresy, because it would have conflicted with the statement that God has three personae, three expressions of his being. (Tillich, Paul, A History of Christian Thought, p. 190)

        "In his letter To Alabius: That there are not Three Gods, Gregory of Nyssa outlined his important doctrine of the inseparability or coinherence of the three divine persons or hypostases. One should not think of God splitting himself up into three parts; that was a grotesque and indeed blasphemous idea. God expressed himself wholly and totally in each one of these three manifestations when he wished to reveal himself to the world... the Divine Nature is equally present in each phase of the operation... The three persons do not exist side by side in the divine world." (Armstrong, Karen, History of God, 116-117)
 


Offline fish153

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #204 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 14:13:44 »
Kenneth-----

I will try one more time:

"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice HE judges and wages war. HIS eyes are like blazing fire, and on HIS head are many crowns. HE has a name written on him that no one knows but HE HIMSELF. HE is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and HIS name is the WORD OF GOD. The armies of heaven were following HIM, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of HIS mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “HE will rule them with an iron scepter.” HE treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On HIS robe and on HIS thigh HE has this name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
".  (Rev. 19:11-16)

Please note carefully(once again) how the HOLY SPIRIT refers to the WORD OF GOD as HE, HIS, HIM, HIMSELF. He is emphatically pointing out to all of us that the WORD OF GOD is a PERSON---the same person mentioned in John 1:1-3 who IS GOD, and who then BECAME FLESH.

Kenneth---to not read these verses and see this is to be WILLFULLY IGNORANT.  The Holy Spirit has made sure that you see that the Word of God is a PERSON-----but you are purposefully ignoring it.  That is dangerous. Is a non-person called HE, HIS, HIM, HIMSELF?  Of course not----it is very obvious that the PERSON described above is a real entity----not just what God speaks".   I would daresay any "school kid" when reading the above verses would state immediately that a PERSON is being described.  But stay in your ignorance if you so choose.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #205 on: Wed May 02, 2018 - 16:36:37 »
Spirit is NEUTER. Spirit means WIND and used in a figurative sense of BREATH by which God ALWAYS SPOKE.
Of Nellie it is her
Of Nat it is HIS S

Rev. 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they
        which are called unto the marriage supper of the LAMB. And he saith unto me,
        These are the true sayings of God.

God is not the sacrificial LAMB\

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,
        See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant,
        and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:
        worship God:
        for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit OF prophecy.
Rev. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
        and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
        and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev. 19:12 His EYES were as a flame of fire, and on his HEAD were many CROWNS;
         and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev. 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
        and his NAME is called The Word of God.

God does not wear a bloody garment because He does not have flesh or bones or blood.

NOT: He IS THE WORD OF GOD.  Jesus SPOKE the Word of God.

Rev. 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses,
        clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev. 19:15 And out of his MOUTH goeth a sharp sword,
        that with it he should SMITE the nations:
        and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
                and HE treadeth the winepress of
                the fierceness and wrath OF ALMIGHTY GOD

HE is not the same as ALMIGHTY GOD
HE executes THE WRATH of God

The WORD spoken by Jesus SHALL JUDGE YOU IN THE LAST DAYS
The WRATH is that OF ALMIGHTY GOD
HE and ALMIGHTY GOD are NOT the same.
Even a simple Spirit would have said that Jesus treads out HIS WRATH,.
        A NAME WRITTEN
        KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Jesus is KING of His Kingdom on Earth until He returns
LORD is not JEHOVAH-ELOHIM
2962.  kurios, controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title): — God, Lord, master, Sir.

Rev. 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice,
        saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven,
        Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the GREAT God;
Rev. 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings,
        and the flesh of captains,
        and the flesh of mighty men,
        and the flesh of horses,
        and of them that sit on them,
        and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

GOD THE FATHER GAVE JESUS OF NAZARETH THE AUTHORITY AND POWER TO REMOVE ALL EARTHLY CROWNS.

Acts 4:26 The kings of the  stood up,
        and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
Rev. 1:5 And from Jesus Christ,
       who is the faithful witness,
       and the first begotten of the dead,
       and the prince of the kings of the earth.
       Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Offline 4WD

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #206 on: Thu May 03, 2018 - 06:28:34 »
Spirit is NEUTER. Spirit means WIND and used in a figurative sense of BREATH by which God ALWAYS SPOKE.
No SPIRIT does not mean WIND. Once again you distort the word of God. The principal words for “spirit” are ruach in the OT and pneuma in the NT. In addition to “spirit,” these terms can also mean “breath” and “wind,” as determined by the context. The terms are used of created spirits, i.e., angels (fallen and unfallen) and the spiritual aspect of human beings, as well as of divine, uncreated spirit. Every spiritual being is living, personal, nonmaterial, and invisible. All these characteristics apply to the Holy Spirit.

Dictionary.com gives the following for the word spirit.

SPIRIT

noun

1.the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
2.the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body.
3.the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.
4.conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter: the world of spirit.
5.a supernatural, incorporeal being, especially one inhabiting a place, object, etc., or having a particular character: evil spirits.
6.a fairy, sprite, or elf.
7.an angel or demon.


It would be terribly stupid if one were to conclude that, for example, equate definitions 3. and 7. and conclude that our soul is really an angel or a demon.  But then I think you just might do that.

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #207 on: Thu May 03, 2018 - 11:38:06 »
These are NOT DEFINITIONS: They are WAYS the word is USED is listed in a DESCENDING order. You can't pick out the one you want to use.

SPIRIT IS NEVER IN THE BIBLE OR OTHER LITERATURE MEAN A "BEING" OTHER THAN DEMONS.

The word is LITERALLY WIND OR A BLAST OF AIR EVERYTHING below the LITTERAL meaning are FIGURATIVE.
If Holy Spirit is a PEOPLE and you use the article THE Holy Spirit you would INSULT "HIM".

There is almost always a PREPOSITION following SPIRIT.  The Spirit OF FEAR is not a person.



Jesus said MY WORDS are SPIRIT because what HE delivered in the flesh is the MENTAL DISPOSITION of God Who BREATHED

Offline BTR

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #208 on: Thu May 03, 2018 - 17:15:49 »
Isaiah 9:6,7

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
-KJV


For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.
  -English Translation of the Greek Septuagint, the Translation by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851

Offline Kenneth Sublett

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Re: Who and What is God
« Reply #209 on: Thu May 03, 2018 - 17:59:01 »
That agrees with the LATIN and it agrees with the fact that the SON's NAME SHALL BE CALLED after that of the Father.

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED. Jesus bore the NAME of all that God provided for the church.

[6] parvulus enim natus est nobis filius datus est nobis et factus est principatus super umerum eius et vocabitur nomen eius Admirabilis consiliarius Deus fortis Pater futuri saeculi Princeps pacis

admīrābĭlis , e, adj. admiror. I. [select] Worthy of admiration, admirable, wonderful: That produces wonder, wonderful, astonishing, strange,

consĭlĭārĭus , an assessor, aid in a court of justice, suitable for counsel, counselling

God is Elohim or Deus

fortis  Powerful of men or horses

Pater, Father, teacher founder of a school

Futurs  Going to be, Future not everlasting

Saeculum race or breed, generation

Princepis The first, chief, the most eminent, distinguished, or noble
A chief, head, author, originator, leader,

Pacis or pax peace, concluded between parties at variance, esp. between belligerents; Peace, tranquillity of mind: [Destroyed in a church near you.