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Author Topic: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?  (Read 4211 times)

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Offline kamakaz

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why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
this always seemed strange when I first started in the word. that would be like me saying "kamakaz is going to go to the store" instead of simply saying "I am going to go to the store."


i was taught it was for this reason.

Jesus (the man) was born of a virgin birth. It was not until His baptism when He was raised up out of the water, when a dove (The Christ) deceded on Him, and the Father parted the clouds and spoke and said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. It was Christ who entered into Jesus body, hence, Jesus- 100% man, 100% God.

So when Jesus is talking and He says, The Son of man will be cruisified, the Son of man is Jesus, (Christ is the Son of God) so Christ is saying to them, that Jesus is going to be cruisified. So it is Christ talking about Jesus.

Why is this significant? On the Cross, Jesus gave up the spirit (the Christ) for spirit can not die, so the Christ who is spirit can not die. But Jesus the man, died. Although Christ did suffer as well, just not physical death but spiritual seperation from the Father. (My God why has thou forsaken me?)

Again this is my understanding, and i am open minded and like to hear other views on things, not trying to ruffle any feathers...

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Offline Jaime

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 09:46:26 AM »
Kamakaz, you bring up some interesting things that I have wondered about for years. I have always struggled with the all man and all God thing. I have way more questions than answers and some of my ideas are probably considered heresies to some degree by a lot of folks, so I will hold off and wait for some of our more learned brethren to reply.

Blessings,
Jaime

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 09:46:26 AM »

Robert Pate

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 10:10:22 AM »
Kamakaz

I think that you are trying to figure out the trinity.  It is beyond human comprehension.  If you try to make sense out of the trinity you will fail.  Not all things are given to us for our understanding.  Paul said, we see through a glass dimly.

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 10:10:22 AM »

Offline janine

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 10:12:49 AM »
Not only maybe the third person -- if Jesus spoke in the marketplace Greek at any time, He might've spoken of Himself in the first, second, third, fourth, eleventy-squillionth person... You know how scrambled those Greek tenses look to us uneducated people!!

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 10:12:49 AM »

Offline Brian Kelley

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 10:53:40 AM »
I don't know about that, kamakaz.  When Jesus said 'Why have you forsaken me', it seems as though He said that BEFORE he said 'Into your hands I commit My Spirit'.

"And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last." - Luke 23:46

"About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"  And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, {began} saying, "This man is calling for Elijah."  Immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink.  But the rest {of them} said, "Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him."  And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit." - Matthew 27:46-50

We see that between the separation and the yielding of the Spirit, Jesus had a drink and people were talking about Him being Elijah.  There was a passage of time when Jesus was still on the cross still having His spirit.

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 10:53:40 AM »



Offline kamakaz

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 11:24:42 AM »
I don't know about that, kamakaz.  When Jesus said 'Why have you forsaken me', it seems as though He said that BEFORE he said 'Into your hands I commit My Spirit'.

"And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last." - Luke 23:46

"About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"  And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, {began} saying, "This man is calling for Elijah."  Immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink.  But the rest {of them} said, "Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him."  And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit." - Matthew 27:46-50

We see that between the separation and the yielding of the Spirit, Jesus had a drink and people were talking about Him being Elijah.  There was a passage of time when Jesus was still on the cross still having His spirit.

that is what i said, Ye was forsaken (God turned away from Him for the first time ever) which Christ had to suffer (for our sake) and then He gave up the Spirit (Christ) after this.

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 11:24:42 AM »

Offline Brian Kelley

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 11:34:00 AM »
Okay, I misunderstood.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2007, 12:25:43 PM »
Kamakaz, my friend, I like you, and I consider you a brother.  But I think you may have been taught a little fuzzy on this one:

i was taught it was for this reason.

Jesus (the man) was born of a virgin birth. It was not until His baptism when He was raised up out of the water, when a dove (The Christ) deceded on Him, and the Father parted the clouds and spoke and said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. It was Christ who entered into Jesus body, hence, Jesus- 100% man, 100% God.


This is a subordinate point to the Adoptionist heresy.  (I'm not suggesting that you are an adherent thereof)

From Wikipedia:
Quote
Adoptionism is a minority Christian belief that Jesus was born merely human and that He became divine later in His life. By these accounts, Jesus earned the title Christ through His sinless devotion to the will of God, thereby becoming the perfect sacrifice to redeem humanity. Adoptionists typically portray two key points in Jesus' life as stages in Jesus' theosis: His baptism and His resurrection. They consider God to have given Jesus His miraculous power and divine authority after Jesus proved His holiness. Adoptionism arose among early Christians seeking to reconcile the claims that Jesus was the son of God with the radical monotheism of Judaism[citation needed].

Adoptionism was common before it was first declared heresy at the end of the 2nd century. Some scholars see adoptionist concepts in the Gospel of Mark and in the Pauline epistles.[citation needed]

Adoptionism was condemned by the church as heresy at various times, most explicitly at the First Council of Nicaea. The belief contradicts the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, which identifies Jesus as eternally God.

Adoptionism is also called adoptianism or dynamic monarchianism.


Obviously, Wikipedia isn't exactly authoritative, or even to be trusted, so please take this with a grain of salt.  I quote it because I do not have sufficient knowledge of this subject to really dialogue about it.

Quote
So when Jesus is talking and He says, The Son of man will be cruisified, the Son of man is Jesus, (Christ is the Son of God) so Christ is saying to them, that Jesus is going to be cruisified. So it is Christ talking about Jesus.

Why is this significant? On the Cross, Jesus gave up the spirit (the Christ) for spirit can not die, so the Christ who is spirit can not die. But Jesus the man, died. Although Christ did suffer as well, just not physical death but spiritual seperation from the Father. (My God why has thou forsaken me?)

Again this is my understanding, and i am open minded and like to hear other views on things, not trying to ruffle any feathers...

Another wikipedia quote okay?

Quote
Nestorianism is the doctrine that Jesus exists as two persons, the man Jesus and the divine Son of God, or Logos, rather than as a unified person. This doctrine is identified with Nestorius (c. 386–c. 451), Archbishop of Constantinople. This view of Christ was condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431, and the conflict over this view led to the Nestorian schism, separating the Assyrian Church of the East from the Byzantine Church.


I'm out of my depth here...can I just refer you to read part of Ireneus Against Heresies?  I believe adoptionism is in Book 1, somewhere near the end of the book.
It can be found here:  http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/001/index.htm  You'll have to scroll down and find it, as the link is for all of the first Volume of the Ante-Nicene fathers.

Offline Gill79

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2007, 03:04:46 PM »
why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
this always seemed strange when I first started in the word. that would be like me saying "kamakaz is going to go to the store" instead of simply saying "I am going to go to the store."


i was taught it was for this reason.

Jesus (the man) was born of a virgin birth. It was not until His baptism when He was raised up out of the water, when a dove (The Christ) deceded on Him, and the Father parted the clouds and spoke and said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. It was Christ who entered into Jesus body, hence, Jesus- 100% man, 100% God.

So when Jesus is talking and He says, The Son of man will be cruisified, the Son of man is Jesus, (Christ is the Son of God) so Christ is saying to them, that Jesus is going to be cruisified. So it is Christ talking about Jesus.

Why is this significant? On the Cross, Jesus gave up the spirit (the Christ) for spirit can not die, so the Christ who is spirit can not die. But Jesus the man, died. Although Christ did suffer as well, just not physical death but spiritual seperation from the Father. (My God why has thou forsaken me?)

Again this is my understanding, and i am open minded and like to hear other views on things, not trying to ruffle any feathers...

i think he talk like this because it all already in scriptures before Christ came so mainly Jesus teh well respect teacher (in eyes of Jews) that of aurthity expressed in way so Jews understand and maybe believe since he quoting so often from jewish sciptures, refering himself, subtle rather outright or  they will straight away closed their hearts at stament like,   Jews this Christ is me!

stuble needed to provok thinking. not begin stuble would likey enrage them instead because they can easly held him to blasmple charge. so in the end after all stuff jesus done and teaching not so stuble expressions sometime came up implying he himself the Christ. Jews after all that crowd follow him already learned understood having hard time  make charge stick now people know teh truth by that time.


Gillian

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2007, 03:04:46 PM »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2007, 04:54:12 PM »
BTW, the title "son of man" is also found in the book of Daniel.  It is an appellation that highlights the lowliness of the person, at least the way Daniel uses it.

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2007, 04:54:12 PM »

Offline kamakaz

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2007, 07:11:54 AM »
BTW, the title "son of man" is also found in the book of Daniel.  It is an appellation that highlights the lowliness of the person, at least the way Daniel uses it.

ok about your previous post, I do not have the same belief as the Adoptionist heresy, its claim is ' that Jesus was born merely human and that He became divine later in His life. By these accounts, Jesus earned the title Christ through His sinless devotion to the will of God, thereby ...'

Jesus did not earn the title Christ. It is not a title, but it is the Son of God, a divine being, not a title. And I get what I believe out of the bible, which has the ultimate authority, and the only book I believe in.

I did not see any answer from you about why JEsus spoke in third person much of the time.

Offline Brian Kelley

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2007, 07:36:36 AM »
Many times I think He was quoting or at least referencing Scripture.

Offline kamakaz

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2007, 07:39:28 AM »
Many times I think He was quoting or at least referencing Scripture.

so maybe he was right in the parts he was quoting or referencing scripture.

Offline Brian Kelley

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2007, 07:50:38 AM »
I think Jesus was, is, and always will be God (Hebrews 13:8).  There are some who don't think so.  I don't think there was ever a time where Jesus was not deity.  "I and My Father are One." - John 10:30.

If Jesus and the Father are one, and Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, then Jesus was, is, and always will be God.

Offline kamakaz

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Re: why did Jesus talk about Himself in the third person some of the time?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2007, 08:00:59 AM »
Just as God is one and a trinity at the same time. What I am saying is that Jesus is of God, His seed is from God, not mans, He did not have a mans seed to create Him as we do (a man and woman coming together, and sperm and a womans seed, well I am sure  you know the drill...) but Christ is the spirit Son of God. The image of a dove that came on JEsus at His water baptism, and directly after, God spoke from heaven "this is my beloved Son...".