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Author Topic: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?  (Read 23220 times)

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Offline Jaime

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Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« on: Wed May 04, 2011 - 22:25:37 »

John 20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him, "Rabbouni!" which is to say, "Teacher!"
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.

But later encouraged Thomas to touch his wounds prior to his ascention?

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Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« on: Wed May 04, 2011 - 22:25:37 »

larry2

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #1 on: Wed May 04, 2011 - 22:41:15 »

John 20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him, "Rabbouni!" which is to say, "Teacher!"
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.

But later encouraged Thomas to touch his wounds prior to his ascention?



My understanding on that Jamie is that Jesus had not ascended to His Father after coming out of the earth where He was three days and three nights. God must have the firstfruits of Christ's offering of His suffering  on the altar for a sweet savour.

1 Corinthians 15:20   But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. The veil was open and Jesus was leading captivity captivity to the Father.

My thoughts.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #1 on: Wed May 04, 2011 - 22:41:15 »

Lively Stone

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #2 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 04:43:14 »
When speaking with Mary Magdalene, who most likely rushed at Him and grasped hold of Him with sorrow and elation at the same time, Jesus used the word for 'touch' that in Greek means, 'cling to'. He simply was letting her know that He was not there to stay.

When Jesus invited Thomas to touch His wounds, He was addressing his lack of faith.

The reason wasn't that human touch would defile Him, nor was it that between the two visitations He ascended to the Father. He ascended bodily to the Father some 40 days later.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #2 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 04:43:14 »

Offline eph2810

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #3 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 12:25:32 »
Lively Stone is correct. Jesus did not say to Mary “do not touch me

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #3 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 12:25:32 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Jaime

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #4 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 12:37:38 »
The reason I brought this up is, I read a commentary that said since Jesus fulfilled the "offices" of Prophet, King and Priest as did Moses in the Tabernacle before Aaron took the priesthood, Jesus would have had to remain ceremonially undefiled or untouched in order to carry out his priestly duties of APPLYING his shed blood onto God's heavenly mercy seat as the Tabernacle of Moses pattern dictated, and touching the High Priest was prohibited on that day. In the tabernacle services, the animal dying did not atone for sins, the shed blood of the animal did not atone, BUT the APPLICATION of the animals blood on the mercy seat in Holy of Holies accomplished the atonement. The commentary I read said their opinion was, though not mentioned in the scriptural account was that after his death and prior to his ascension into heaven 40 days later, Jesus went to the throne room to the heavenly mercy seat and APPLIED his own blood sometime after seeing Mary and before seeing Thomas.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but it was an interesting concept since the tabernacle of Moses was a "pattern" of the Heavenly tabernacle of God, and Jesus is the lamb of God.

Even in the Exodus account of Passover, the killing of the lamb did not give protection to the household, the shedding of the lambs blood did not protect the household, ONLY the APPLICATION of the shed blood on the doorposts and lintels accomplished the protection from the death angel. There is something significant about the APPLICATION of the blood.

If Jesus is our High Priest and he is and is the fulfillment of the tabernacle pattern, it seems this explanation is plausible. Would Jesus' blood have had to be "applied" to God's heavenly mercy seat?
« Last Edit: Thu May 05, 2011 - 13:08:27 by Jaime »

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #4 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 12:37:38 »



Offline fish153

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #5 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 13:04:30 »
When speaking with Mary Magdalene, who most likely rushed at Him and grasped hold of Him with sorrow and elation at the same time, Jesus used the word for 'touch' that in Greek means, 'cling to'. He simply was letting her know that He was not there to stay.

When Jesus invited Thomas to touch His wounds, He was addressing his lack of faith.

The reason wasn't that human touch would defile Him, nor was it that between the two visitations He ascended to the Father. He ascended bodily to the Father some 40 days later.

Lively Stone----

Thanks for sharing this.  Not only does it explain the meaning,  it is also very touching, and shows the deep love Jesus had for Mary.  God bless you!

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #5 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 13:04:30 »

larry2

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #6 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 14:56:15 »

It appears more than one translation has bought into the story that Jesus was referring to His trip to heaven forty days later, and just didn't want Mary to get too used to Him being around. I think that is the way some dogma came about in the RCC.

To use the word "touch" consistently as "Cling to," let's take a couple examples where they change it to their liking; one time they use "Cling to." and the next they use "Touch."

ESV - John 20:17.   Do not cling to me

ESV - Matthew 9:21.  If I only touch his garment

ESV -   Colossians 2:21  Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch

NIVUS - John 20:17.  Do not hold on to me

NIVUS - Matthew 9:21.  If I only touch his cloak 

NIVUS - Colossians 2:21  Touch not; taste not; handle not;

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #7 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 15:08:14 »
I have absolutely no idea.  ::eatingpopcorn:
Manna to you.  If only everybody would admit when they don't know, we would have a lot less crazy ideas in the world.

Offline gospel

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 15:38:05 »
The reason I brought this up is, I read a commentary that said since Jesus fulfilled the "offices" of Prophet, King and Priest as did Moses in the Tabernacle before Aaron took the priesthood, Jesus would have had to remain ceremonially undefiled or untouched in order to carry out his priestly duties of APPLYING his shed blood onto God's heavenly mercy seat as the Tabernacle of Moses pattern dictated, and touching the High Priest was prohibited on that day. In the tabernacle services, the animal dying did not atone for sins, the shed blood of the animal did not atone, BUT the APPLICATION of the animals blood on the mercy seat in Holy of Holies accomplished the atonement. The commentary I read said their opinion was, though not mentioned in the scriptural account was that after his death and prior to his ascension into heaven 40 days later, Jesus went to the throne room to the heavenly mercy seat and APPLIED his own blood sometime after seeing Mary and before seeing Thomas.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but it was an interesting concept since the tabernacle of Moses was a "pattern" of the Heavenly tabernacle of God, and Jesus is the lamb of God.

Even in the Exodus account of Passover, the killing of the lamb did not give protection to the household, the shedding of the lambs blood did not protect the household, ONLY the APPLICATION of the shed blood on the doorposts and lintels accomplished the protection from the death angel. There is something significant about the APPLICATION of the blood.

If Jesus is our High Priest and he is and is the fulfillment of the tabernacle pattern, it seems this explanation is plausible. Would Jesus' blood have had to be "applied" to God's heavenly mercy seat?

IMO I believe Yours is the right answer....


The temple sacrifices were an earthly pattern of a heavenly design

Jesus said

I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE John 14:6


What Jesus was saying is that  

He....Jesus, Is The Truth About Gods Way of Giving Eternal Life to man


This means The temple sacrifices the Jews believed were the Way were really not The Way to Eternal Life but rather they were symbolic of Gods True Way God that was to come through Christ.

In short God was preaching the Gospel through those rituals

This is why Jesus earthly ministry was patterned in much of the same manner as those of the temple

The mere fact that He Was The Perfect Lamb of God is part and parcel of this Truth

Without spot or blemish

In addition Jesus being led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit was the the True Way that in the past had been represented by the scapegoat

But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat
Leviticus 16:10

Bottom line to enter back into the Holy of Holies, As a man risen from the grave, back into the Presence of The Father, Jesus had to be totally undefiled by sin of the world




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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 15:38:05 »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #9 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 22:33:27 »
The reason I brought this up is, I read a commentary that said since Jesus fulfilled the "offices" of Prophet, King and Priest as did Moses in the Tabernacle before Aaron took the priesthood, Jesus would have had to remain ceremonially undefiled or untouched in order to carry out his priestly duties of APPLYING his shed blood onto God's heavenly mercy seat as the Tabernacle of Moses pattern dictated, and touching the High Priest was prohibited on that day. In the tabernacle services, the animal dying did not atone for sins, the shed blood of the animal did not atone, BUT the APPLICATION of the animals blood on the mercy seat in Holy of Holies accomplished the atonement. The commentary I read said their opinion was, though not mentioned in the scriptural account was that after his death and prior to his ascension into heaven 40 days later, Jesus went to the throne room to the heavenly mercy seat and APPLIED his own blood sometime after seeing Mary and before seeing Thomas.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but it was an interesting concept since the tabernacle of Moses was a "pattern" of the Heavenly tabernacle of God, and Jesus is the lamb of God.

Even in the Exodus account of Passover, the killing of the lamb did not give protection to the household, the shedding of the lambs blood did not protect the household, ONLY the APPLICATION of the shed blood on the doorposts and lintels accomplished the protection from the death angel. There is something significant about the APPLICATION of the blood.

If Jesus is our High Priest and he is and is the fulfillment of the tabernacle pattern, it seems this explanation is plausible. Would Jesus' blood have had to be "applied" to God's heavenly mercy seat?

IMO I believe Yours is the right answer....


The temple sacrifices were an earthly pattern of a heavenly design

Jesus said

I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE John 14:6


What Jesus was saying is that 

He....Jesus, Is The Truth About Gods Way of Giving Eternal Life to man


This means The temple sacrifices the Jews believed were the Way were really not The Way to Eternal Life but rather they were symbolic of Gods True Way God that was to come through Christ.

In short God was preaching the Gospel through those rituals

This is why Jesus earthly ministry was patterned in much of the same manner as those of the temple

The mere fact that He Was The Perfect Lamb of God is part and parcel of this Truth

Without spot or blemish

In addition Jesus being led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit was the the True Way that in the past had been represented by the scapegoat

But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat
Leviticus 16:10

Bottom line to enter back into the Holy of Holies, As a man risen from the grave, back into the Presence of The Father, Jesus had to be totally undefiled by sin of the world



Holy garbanza beans, Gospel! I may have to cut and paste this into a framed document and hang on my wall.

Thanks for your input brother. Manna to you!

Offline Jaime

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #10 on: Thu May 05, 2011 - 22:35:16 »
I have absolutely no idea.  ::eatingpopcorn:
Manna to you.  If only everybody would admit when they don't know, we would have a lot less crazy ideas in the world.

And only a handful of members here!

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #11 on: Sat May 07, 2011 - 12:44:04 »
The reason I brought this up is, I read a commentary that said since Jesus fulfilled the "offices" of Prophet, King and Priest as did Moses in the Tabernacle before Aaron took the priesthood, Jesus would have had to remain ceremonially undefiled or untouched in order to carry out his priestly duties of APPLYING his shed blood onto God's heavenly mercy seat as the Tabernacle of Moses pattern dictated, and touching the High Priest was prohibited on that day. In the tabernacle services, the animal dying did not atone for sins, the shed blood of the animal did not atone, BUT the APPLICATION of the animals blood on the mercy seat in Holy of Holies accomplished the atonement. The commentary I read said their opinion was, though not mentioned in the scriptural account was that after his death and prior to his ascension into heaven 40 days later, Jesus went to the throne room to the heavenly mercy seat and APPLIED his own blood sometime after seeing Mary and before seeing Thomas.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but it was an interesting concept since the tabernacle of Moses was a "pattern" of the Heavenly tabernacle of God, and Jesus is the lamb of God.

Even in the Exodus account of Passover, the killing of the lamb did not give protection to the household, the shedding of the lambs blood did not protect the household, ONLY the APPLICATION of the shed blood on the doorposts and lintels accomplished the protection from the death angel. There is something significant about the APPLICATION of the blood.

If Jesus is our High Priest and he is and is the fulfillment of the tabernacle pattern, it seems this explanation is plausible. Would Jesus' blood have had to be "applied" to God's heavenly mercy seat?

I think that is very insightful Jaime  ::clappingoverhead::

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #12 on: Sun May 08, 2011 - 20:49:48 »
Jaime, You are absolutely correct. If Mary had touched the Lord, she still being unclean, would have defiled the Lord. The answer to your question lies in the words Jesus spoke to Mary,

John 20:17,  "Touch me not;" 

Why?

"For I (Jesus) have not yet ascended to my Father."

To ascend is to go from a lower place (earth) to a higher place (heaven.)

His next contact with men was on the road to Emmaus. Jesus spoke with them, then sat with them for a meal.

Between his speaking with Mary at the tomb, and the road to Emmaus, the Lord had ascended to the throne of his Father as our High Priest, clean of any defilement, and made the offering of blood to the Father for the forgiveness of man's sin.

1 Tim.2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."  The type in the O.T. was the high Priest that went into the holy of holies. Christ is the anti-type that went into the Holy of Holies in heaven.

The Father was the offended party, and that offence has been healed by the finished work of Jesus Christ which the Father gave him to do.

2 Cor.5:18-19, "All things are of God (the Father,) who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

Rom.5:10, "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

In this Jesus fulfilled the duties of our High Priest, our Mediator, He is our bridge to peace with God the Father.

Phil LaSpino

Offline Jaime

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #13 on: Sun May 08, 2011 - 21:52:54 »
It's amazing how the first Testament gives texture and context to the Gospel, which I would never have gotten from the New Testament given to me by my church when I graduated from high school. The Gospel in the New Testament is wonderful, but it is so much richer when one grasps God's grace and the Gospel patterns ALL OVER the Old Testament. It's all ONE story!

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #14 on: Sun May 08, 2011 - 23:30:46 »
Jaime, You are absolutely correct. If Mary had touched the Lord, she still being unclean, would have defiled the Lord. The answer to your question lies in the words Jesus spoke to Mary,

John 20:17,  "Touch me not;" 

Why?

"For I (Jesus) have not yet ascended to my Father."

To ascend is to go from a lower place (earth) to a higher place (heaven.)

His next contact with men was on the road to Emmaus. Jesus spoke with them, then sat with them for a meal.

Between his speaking with Mary at the tomb, and the road to Emmaus, the Lord had ascended to the throne of his Father as our High Priest, clean of any defilement, and made the offering of blood to the Father for the forgiveness of man's sin.

1 Tim.2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."  The type in the O.T. was the high Priest that went into the holy of holies. Christ is the anti-type that went into the Holy of Holies in heaven.

The Father was the offended party, and that offence has been healed by the finished work of Jesus Christ which the Father gave him to do.

2 Cor.5:18-19, "All things are of God (the Father,) who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

Rom.5:10, "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

In this Jesus fulfilled the duties of our High Priest, our Mediator, He is our bridge to peace with God the Father.

Phil LaSpino

It has nothing to do with defilement! Jesus didn't go to the Father until some 40 days later. It wasn't defilement He was concerned with. He was concerned that Mary was thinking He was back for good. It was just a gentle, loving reminder. Do you think that in those 40 days that no one touched Him? Thomas certainly did, and so did all of His disciples, and more, I am sure.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #15 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 09:45:38 »
The bible doesn't say he went back to apply the blood to God's mercy seat, but in the priestly pattern in the earthly tabernacle that is exactly what happened in the heavenly tabernacle. Yes he went back "visibly" 40 days later. Jesus being worried about ceremonial defilement had nothing to so with his sinlessness.
« Last Edit: Mon May 09, 2011 - 11:56:47 by Jaime »

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #16 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 10:21:55 »

John 20:16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him, "Rabbouni!" which is to say, "Teacher!"
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.

But later encouraged Thomas to touch his wounds prior to his ascention?

Jamie,

Jesus actually said "do not CLING to me." Mary was clinging Jesus because she thought that Jesus was to immediately depart to the Father. She did not want Him to leave. So He said, "Do not cling to me, for I am not yet ascending to my Father...."

thinker

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #17 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 11:55:29 »
Cling is only translated in one version the ESV.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #19 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:21:21 »
Cling is only translated in one version the ESV.

Thank the Lord that at least one translation has it right. Vine's Expository Dictionary says that the Greek "hapto" means "to lay hold of" or "to cling to." Mary thought that Christ was going to immediately depart to the Father and so she clung to Him like a child would cling to his mommy when she leaves him with the babysitter. So Christ said, "Do not cling to me, I am not yet ascending to My Father."

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #20 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:23:32 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #21 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:26:30 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

Quietly ascend? Before His Ascension? Where is that scripturally?

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #22 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:26:38 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #23 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:28:01 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

Quietly ascend? Before His Ascension? Where is that scripturally?

Good point. Jesus VISIBLY ascended before their eyes. This was NOT "quiet."

thinker

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #24 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:30:10 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

thinker

Because He could not be ritually unclean (not talking about sin) or defiled by touch as the High Priest in Moses' Tabernacle.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #25 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:32:53 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

Quietly ascend? Before His Ascension? Where is that scripturally?

The bible is not a moment by moment blow by blow account of the life of Christ. Scripturally, look at the old testament tabernacle pattern of the Heavenly Tabernacle in Hebrews. The high priest couldn't be defiled by touch on the day of attonement prior to sprinkling the blood on the mercy seat.

THEN he ascended visibly to heaven 40 days later. He applied the blood to the heavenly mercy seat sometime after he encounterd Mary and before he encountered Thomas.

thethinker

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #26 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:33:58 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

thinker

Because He could not be ritually unclean (not talking about sin) or defiled by touch as the High Priest in Moses' Tabernacle.


Then He could not have allowed Thomas to touch and poke Him.

thinker

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #27 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:35:53 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.

The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

thinker

Because He could not be ritually unclean (not talking about sin) or defiled by touch as the High Priest in Moses' Tabernacle.


Then He could not have allowed Thomas to touch and poke Him.

thinker

As I have said, he obviously went to the heavenly mercy seat after he encountered Mary and PRIOR to encountering Thomas and of course PRIOR to his visible ascension 40 days later. He had applied the blood, I believe prior to encountering Thomas, and would not then need to remain untouched or ritually undefiled.

thethinker

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #28 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:40:51 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.


The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

thinker


Because He could not be ritually unclean (not talking about sin) or defiled by touch as the High Priest in Moses' Tabernacle.



Then He could not have allowed Thomas to touch and poke Him.

thinker


As I have said, he obviously went to the heavenly mercy seat PRIOR to his visible ascension 40 days later.


Are you saying He went to the mercy seat prior to Thomas touching Him and then came back down and allowed Thomas to defile Him by poking Him and then ascend to the mercy seat again but this time unclean?

thinker

Offline Jaime

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #29 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 12:45:39 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.


The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

thinker


Because He could not be ritually unclean (not talking about sin) or defiled by touch as the High Priest in Moses' Tabernacle.



Then He could not have allowed Thomas to touch and poke Him.

thinker


As I have said, he obviously went to the heavenly mercy seat PRIOR to his visible ascension 40 days later.


Are you saying He went to the mercy seat prior to Thomas touching Him and then came back down and allowed Thomas to defile Him by poking Him and then ascend to the mercy seat again but this time unclean?

thinker


Yes, but he would have no reason to remain "undefiled by touch" because the blood had been applied. Just like in the OT, the the death of the animal and the catching of the blood did not attone. It was the APPLICATION of the blood, and Jesus was bound to apply his own blood to the mercy seat, but had to remain untouched. Afterward, that function wasn't needed. His blood was APPLIED once and for all times.

Yes he returned prior to meeting Thomas and was able to be touched, THEN he ascended visibly. Or the tabernacle pattern, was really no pattern at all, just Godly confusion for us to muddle over.

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #30 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 13:07:01 »
He was going to quietly ascend to apply his blood to the mercy seat. His visible ascension was 40 days later. I go with do not touch. It makes more sense. Especially if the tabernacle and priestly pattern have any bearing at all and they do very very much so.


The rendering "do not touch" does not make more sense. Jesus told Thomas to touch and poke Him. Jesus did not view His people as unclean. Why does "do not touch" make more sense?

thinker


Because He could not be ritually unclean (not talking about sin) or defiled by touch as the High Priest in Moses' Tabernacle.



Then He could not have allowed Thomas to touch and poke Him.

thinker


As I have said, he obviously went to the heavenly mercy seat PRIOR to his visible ascension 40 days later.


Are you saying He went to the mercy seat prior to Thomas touching Him and then came back down and allowed Thomas to defile Him by poking Him and then ascend to the mercy seat again but this time unclean?

thinker


Yes, but he would have no reason to remain "undefiled by touch" because the blood had been applied. Just like in the OT, the the death of the animal and the catching of the blood did not attone. It was the APPLICATION of the blood, and Jesus was bound to apply his own blood to the mercy seat, but had to remain untouched. Afterward, that function wasn't needed. His blood was APPLIED once and for all times.

Yes he returned prior to meeting Thomas and was able to be touched, THEN he ascended visibly. Or the tabernacle pattern, was really no pattern at all, just Godly confusion for us to muddle over.


I totally agree with you on this Jaime for Jesus was very consistent in this aspect of adhering to the pattern God set forth in the tabernacle.

I think this is one of the most neglected perspectives of understanding how the OT relates to our salvation....

.... for I am certain that through the rituals, the design, craftsmanship of  tabernacle, the temple, the materials used and their furnishings as well as the priestly garments ...

....God was preaching the Gospel of Salvation establishing and pointing to the True Way of His Plan of Redemption in Christ Jesus

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #31 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 13:11:53 »
Jesus applied his blood to the mercy seat immediately at his death.
 
Matt. 27:51 Then behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom…

The veil inside the temple is what separated men from God. The high priest was the only one permitted to go beyond the veil into the presence of God with the yearly sacrifice for atonement. Jesus was our high priest. He was sacrificed and then he entered the holy place and applied the blood, thus tearing down the veil that separated us from God.

Also, there are several translations that use “cling

Offline Jaime

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #32 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 13:14:06 »
Jesus applied his blood to the mercy seat immediately at his death.
 
Matt. 27:51 Then behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom…

The veil inside the temple is what separated men from God. The high priest was the only one permitted to go beyond the veil into the presence of God with the yearly sacrifice for atonement. Jesus was our high priest. He was sacrificed and then he entered the holy place and applied the blood, thus tearing down the veil that separated us from God.

Also, there are several translations that use “cling

Offline eph2810

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #33 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 13:27:19 »
I have no real interest in the position you take, but I think you've latched on to the KJV mistranslation of haptomai as "touch" rather than "cling" and you want to fit the OT shadow of the blood on the mercy seat occuring between Mary's attempt to "touch" (cling to) Jesus and Thomas' touching of Jesus later.

I'm sticking with the shadow being realized at the tearing of the veil after the death of Jesus.

Sometimes it's tough to nail down NT realizations of the OT shadows. I may be the one wrong on this one, but I am the world's leading authority on my opinions.

Good discussion thread though!


thethinker

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Re: Why did Jesus tell Mary Magdalen not to touch Him?
« Reply #34 on: Mon May 09, 2011 - 13:42:42 »
gospel said:
Quote
I totally agree with you on this Jaime for Jesus was very consistent in this aspect of adhering to the pattern God set forth in the tabernacle.

I think this is one of the most neglected perspectives of understanding how the OT relates to our salvation....

.... for I am certain that through the rituals, the design, craftsmanship of  tabernacle, the temple, the materials used and their furnishings as well as the priestly garments ...

....God was preaching the Gospel of Salvation establishing and pointing to the True Way of His Plan of Redemption in Christ Jesus

I also affirm that Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary on the basis of His blood. The question is did He enter the sanctuary before or after the 40 days? If after, then he was "defiled" by Thomas touching Him. If before, then He was still defiled because Mary had already touched Him. So her supposed uncleanness could not have been the issue.

Jaime infers too much.

thinker
 
 
 

 

     
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