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Author Topic: Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?  (Read 1413 times)
Jimmy
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2009, 06:23:31 AM »
Probably the biggest reason that they did not recognize Jesus was because he did not come as the kind of Messiah that they were looking for.  They were looking for a Messiah who would take up the throne of David as a warrior king and once again establish Israel as the powerful nation it once was.  Jesus did not display that kind of Messiah at all.  In fact, He was just the opposite of everything they were looking for.

Remember right up until the last days with Jesus here on earth, the apostles asked Jesus, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6)   So even the apostles didn't truly recognize Jesus.  It wasn't until Pentecost that they finally understood who what the Jesus the Messiah really was.

To understand why they didn't recognize Jesus, ask even a modern day fundamentalist Jew why they don't accept Jesus as the Messiah.  They will tell you they don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah because He did not fulfill all of the prophecies in the old testament (as they think the Messiah who is yet to come will).  They don't accept the spiritual nature of the fulfilment of many of the warrior king prophecies.  But then there are a lot of premillennialists who agree with them and have established the "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel's prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 to explain that lack of fulfillment.
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2009, 06:23:31 AM »
 
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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2009, 08:32:25 AM »
I agree with Jimmy. 

The disciples wavered in their faith, in part because of their misunderstanding of the true nature of his messiah role.
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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2009, 08:32:25 AM »
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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2009, 08:41:12 AM »
Quote
I do agree that it does help regulate carnal behavior but that is at it's best. It does nothing about purifying a person's heart.

Ps 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

It doesn't seem like the above scriptures support your statement.  The law convicts of sin, which leads one to the only remedy for sin, Christ.  They are both necessary to the sinner.  In Christ they met.  He fulfilled the law in human flesh.  Now by observing His life, we are even more convicted of sin, and our need to be like Him.  For now we see the fulfillment of the law in our flesh, and desire to be like the one who alone saved us from it's condemnation.  Thus, justice and mercy have met in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


The condemnation of the law is a private and personal matter.  It is the conviction of the Holy Spirit upon the individual in relation to the same.  The one who has the law fulfilled within them, worketh no ill to his neighbor. This is certainly not condemnation toward our neighbors.  

The scribes and pharisees that rejected Jesus hated Him because the fulfillment of the law in His flesh, was a rebuke to their own lives.  Jesus meant them no ill, but law being fulfilled within His life, revealed that it was not being fulfilled in theirs.  Instead of being convicted and repenting, they were offended and embarrassed, that as the religious leaders, their lives should be rebuked by this carpenter.  Thus they defended themselves by attacking his charactor, rather than admit the deficiencies of their own, repenting, and admitting the superiority of the life and teachings of Christ to their own, being the religious leaders of the day.  Pride commeth before a fall.

It is the same with all of us.  We will either be convicted and repent, or be offended and reject.  We will either submit to God's law, confessing that He is superior in life and teaching, or we will reject the same and go our own way.  May we all be convicted and repent, and be lead to the foot of the cross where we can hide our lives in Christ, and allow His superior life to be lived out in place of ours.
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2009, 09:19:18 AM »
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 02:02:24 PM
The Pharisees and teachers of the Law kept the Law as well as it good be kept. They were sticklers of the Law to the nth degree.

What kept them from recognizing God in the flesh, Jesus the Living Word of God, the Manna of Heaven, the Bread of Life? Reading

They knew who Jesus was and his purpose.

Jn 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50: Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51: And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52: And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53: Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

again

Jn 11v47: Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48: If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation
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Jn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
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« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2009, 09:24:42 AM »
Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?

Who said they kept the Law.  Only themselves.  Never did Christ acknowledge that they actually kept the Law.

So, why did those who believed they kept the Law not see Jesus?  I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.  I think they were flat out blind and didn't want their world turned upside down.

As to those who hailed Him and then turned on Him, I think Jimmy's explanation above is on point.
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"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2009, 09:31:22 AM »
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 08:13:13 PM

 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

They knew.  There's no reason to have sent all those spies to follow Him around day & night if they didn't know.  And surely if there was any doubt, it was removed after hearing all the reports of the miracles He performed.

They thought he was a prophet was all.. that's what that verse plainly states.  They had no idea he was the Christ.  

Sorry if you got offended by my posts.. I'm just direct to the point when I post.. and in real life.

Also, if they had recognized him as the Christ then old testament prophesy would not have been fulfilled.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 09:56:19 AM by Tantor » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2009, 09:31:22 AM »
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Dayvd
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« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2009, 11:27:52 AM »
Quote from: Tantor on November 03, 2009, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 08:13:13 PM

 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

They knew.  There's no reason to have sent all those spies to follow Him around day & night if they didn't know.  And surely if there was any doubt, it was removed after hearing all the reports of the miracles He performed.

They thought he was a prophet was all.. that's what that verse plainly states.  They had no idea he was the Christ.  

Sorry if you got offended by my posts.. I'm just direct to the point when I post.. and in real life.

Also, if they had recognized him as the Christ then old testament prophesy would not have been fulfilled.



If I jumped to quick I apologize.  I just left a board where personal comments/attacks were not only tolerated, but encouraged.

I don't remember the OT section you are referring to as far as the Pharisee's not recognizing Jesus.  Care to share with me?

And how is it ya'll are able to post verses so quickly?  Is there a quoted here on the board I'm not seeing?
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« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2009, 03:10:54 PM »
Quote from: segell on November 03, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?

Who said they kept the Law.  Only themselves.  Never did Christ acknowledge that they actually kept the Law.

So, why did those who believed they kept the Law not see Jesus?  I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.  I think they were flat out blind and didn't want their world turned upside down.

As to those who hailed Him and then turned on Him, I think Jimmy's explanation above is on point.


Ok teach me

Name one Commandment a Pharisee broke

Then

Name a Commandment that the rich young ruler in Luke 18 broke
Quote
I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.

This is absolutely correct!!!
But the point is this...the better one is able to keep the Law the more self righteous one will become...its inevitable.

The Law transfixes ones attention on ones self and causes one to deny and refuse to accept the Free Gift of Grace and the Righteousness of God


Its as if your mortgage has been paid by a dear friend. The house is yours it legally belongs to you but you keep sending payments in because you either don't know your dear friend already paid it for you


or

You just won't feel right unless you pay it yourself so..... you just keep sending in payments.

The mortgage holder sends you hundreds of pages of legal documents showing you in writing that your debt has been paid

But you don't believe it even though it says it right there in black and white
 moreover
you refuse to accept the rest you have been given from your debt

You continue to labor and sweat for the money to pay the mortgage off

You refuse to acknowledge that not only was your mortgage paid in full

But mortgage company told you that the payment given on your behalf was not only paid in full but your dear friend paid a million times greater than the amount you owed

They were OVER PAID!!

The Blood of Jesus is
THE MOST PRICELESS INCOMPARABLE COMMODITY IN THE UNIVERSE..nothing compares with Jesus Blood in scope or value!

The Blood of Jesus is the only payment in the world that satisfies Gods righteous requirements  

You can go on sending in double, triple and quadruple payments until your dying breath ....

But whether you accept the payment of Jesus Blood on your behalf or not the house still belongs to you

Even if you walk away from your house....it'll be sitting there waiting for you to occupy and live in it because its been paid for it belongs to you

Without Jesus Blood, the owner will foreclose

My friend ....That house is your Salvation Reading
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 05:47:21 PM by gospel » Logged
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« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2009, 05:53:30 PM »
Quote from: Dayvd on November 03, 2009, 11:27:52 AM
Quote from: Tantor on November 03, 2009, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 08:13:13 PM

 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

They knew.  There's no reason to have sent all those spies to follow Him around day & night if they didn't know.  And surely if there was any doubt, it was removed after hearing all the reports of the miracles He performed.

They thought he was a prophet was all.. that's what that verse plainly states.  They had no idea he was the Christ.  

Sorry if you got offended by my posts.. I'm just direct to the point when I post.. and in real life.

Also, if they had recognized him as the Christ then old testament prophesy would not have been fulfilled.



If I jumped to quick I apologize.  I just left a board where personal comments/attacks were not only tolerated, but encouraged.

I don't remember the OT section you are referring to as far as the Pharisee's not recognizing Jesus.  Care to share with me?

And how is it ya'll are able to post verses so quickly?  Is there a quoted here on the board I'm not seeing?



Dayvd   I use

Blue Letter Bible http://www.blueletterbible.org/


Biblios  http://bible.cc/mark/16-15.htm


Net Bible http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm

and a few other resources

Let me know if you need more
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« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2009, 05:53:30 PM »
 
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segell
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2009, 08:09:58 AM »
Quote from: gospel on November 03, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: segell on November 03, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?

Who said they kept the Law.  Only themselves.  Never did Christ acknowledge that they actually kept the Law.

So, why did those who believed they kept the Law not see Jesus?  I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.  I think they were flat out blind and didn't want their world turned upside down.

As to those who hailed Him and then turned on Him, I think Jimmy's explanation above is on point.


Ok teach me

Name one Commandment a Pharisee broke

Then

Name a Commandment that the rich young ruler in Luke 18 broke
Quote
I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.

This is absolutely correct!!!
But the point is this...the better one is able to keep the Law the more self righteous one will become...its inevitable.

The Law transfixes ones attention on ones self and causes one to deny and refuse to accept the Free Gift of Grace and the Righteousness of God


Its as if your mortgage has been paid by a dear friend. The house is yours it legally belongs to you but you keep sending payments in because you either don't know your dear friend already paid it for you


or

You just won't feel right unless you pay it yourself so..... you just keep sending in payments.

The mortgage holder sends you hundreds of pages of legal documents showing you in writing that your debt has been paid

But you don't believe it even though it says it right there in black and white
 moreover
you refuse to accept the rest you have been given from your debt

You continue to labor and sweat for the money to pay the mortgage off

You refuse to acknowledge that not only was your mortgage paid in full

But mortgage company told you that the payment given on your behalf was not only paid in full but your dear friend paid a million times greater than the amount you owed

They were OVER PAID!!

The Blood of Jesus is
THE MOST PRICELESS INCOMPARABLE COMMODITY IN THE UNIVERSE..nothing compares with Jesus Blood in scope or value!

The Blood of Jesus is the only payment in the world that satisfies Gods righteous requirements 

You can go on sending in double, triple and quadruple payments until your dying breath ....

But whether you accept the payment of Jesus Blood on your behalf or not the house still belongs to you

Even if you walk away from your house....it'll be sitting there waiting for you to occupy and live in it because its been paid for it belongs to you

Without Jesus Blood, the owner will foreclose

My friend ....That house is your Salvation Reading


Sorry, but you lost me.  Not sure what any of that has to do with what I posted. 
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Ephesians 2:8-10  Who saves, how He saves, why He saves.

"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2009, 08:09:58 AM »
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« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2009, 08:18:06 AM »
Romans 11:8 According as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, to this very day.
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« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2009, 08:20:59 AM »
Quote from: gospel on November 03, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: segell on November 03, 2009, 09:24:42 AM
Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?

Who said they kept the Law.  Only themselves.  Never did Christ acknowledge that they actually kept the Law.

So, why did those who believed they kept the Law not see Jesus?  I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.  I think they were flat out blind and didn't want their world turned upside down.

As to those who hailed Him and then turned on Him, I think Jimmy's explanation above is on point.


Ok teach me

Name one Commandment a Pharisee broke

Then

Name a Commandment that the rich young ruler in Luke 18 broke
Quote
I think it was because their eyes were strictly focussed on themselves and their own perceived righteousness as "keepers" of the Law.

This is absolutely correct!!!
But the point is this...the better one is able to keep the Law the more self righteous one will become...its inevitable.

The Law transfixes ones attention on ones self and causes one to deny and refuse to accept the Free Gift of Grace and the Righteousness of God


Its as if your mortgage has been paid by a dear friend. The house is yours it legally belongs to you but you keep sending payments in because you either don't know your dear friend already paid it for you


or

You just won't feel right unless you pay it yourself so..... you just keep sending in payments.

The mortgage holder sends you hundreds of pages of legal documents showing you in writing that your debt has been paid

But you don't believe it even though it says it right there in black and white
 moreover
you refuse to accept the rest you have been given from your debt

You continue to labor and sweat for the money to pay the mortgage off

You refuse to acknowledge that not only was your mortgage paid in full

But mortgage company told you that the payment given on your behalf was not only paid in full but your dear friend paid a million times greater than the amount you owed

They were OVER PAID!!

The Blood of Jesus is
THE MOST PRICELESS INCOMPARABLE COMMODITY IN THE UNIVERSE..nothing compares with Jesus Blood in scope or value!

The Blood of Jesus is the only payment in the world that satisfies Gods righteous requirements  

You can go on sending in double, triple and quadruple payments until your dying breath ....

But whether you accept the payment of Jesus Blood on your behalf or not the house still belongs to you

Even if you walk away from your house....it'll be sitting there waiting for you to occupy and live in it because its been paid for it belongs to you

Without Jesus Blood, the owner will foreclose

My friend ....That house is your Salvation Reading


Keeping the law wasn't the reason the Pharisees didn't know Jesus. But we've had that conversation before.

Are you saying that to sin is okay. It just doesn't matter how we live because Jesus has already paid the price. Is that what you're teaching? Because it sure sounds that way.
I don't know of anyone on this forum who believes keeping the law saves.
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2009, 10:06:24 AM »
Sin is now defined on the laws that the holy spirit write on our hearts and minds... as God promised.  It is not defined by what is written in the bible anymore.
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2009, 10:06:24 AM »
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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2009, 11:11:40 AM »
Quote from: Tantor on November 04, 2009, 10:06:24 AM
Sin is now defined on the laws that the holy spirit write on our hearts and minds... as God promised.  It is not defined by what is written in the bible anymore.


What did God write on our hearts, Tantor?
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By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.  Hebrews 11:8,10
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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2009, 11:15:23 AM »
Quote from: Bonnie on November 04, 2009, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Tantor on November 04, 2009, 10:06:24 AM
Sin is now defined on the laws that the holy spirit write on our hearts and minds... as God promised.  It is not defined by what is written in the bible anymore.


What did God write on our hearts, Tantor?

How he wants us to live.. the laws that apply to Christians.

Which has nothing to do with the laws that applied to Israel as part of the Old Covenant.
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