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Author Topic: Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?  (Read 2327 times)
Jimmy
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« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2009, 06:49:52 AM »

Because Like Christians, they had their heads down in the scriptures, Jesus walked past and they missed Him. By the time they looked up He had being crucifed by them.

Is your point that we should not study the Scriptures?
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« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2009, 06:49:52 AM »

 
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Bonnie
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« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2009, 09:04:29 AM »

gospel, I don't think that anyone could fault a person for studying the Bible. David said he mediated upon the law of the Lord both day and night. He delighted in it.   Many other examples in the Word of people dedicated and serious about living for God.  We love him and that's how we know his character.

"Study to show yourselves approved a workman unto to God"

Knowing the character of God is paramount to understanding his word.  Many people even claiming to be Christian do not know God.  That's the problem many times ~ sinners trying to understand and debate the Word of God.  God Himself said that the carnal minded cannot understand that which is spiritual.  They aren't subject to the laws of God and neither can they be.

The Holy Spirit leads and guides us and brings to our remembrance the things we learn from Scripture.  Who is leading and guiding that lost person when they read?
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« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2009, 09:04:29 AM »

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BornToReign
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« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2009, 09:34:47 AM »

Quote

"Study to show yourselves approved a workman unto to God"





2 Tim. 2:15: The word "study" in this passage does not mean to pursue knowledge by reading, etc., but rather it is the Greek verb "SPOUDAZO" which means "to make haste, to exert one's self, endeavor, and give diligence" (Thayer). It involves much more than just taking in knowledge.
The Liberty Bible Commentary states, "Study (Gk. SPOUDAZO) is not the normal word you think of as a student but a word used of a workman meaning 'give diligence,' 'endeavor,' or 'exert oneself.'" This is the reason the word "workman" is used later in this same verse.
This Greek word is used ten times in the New Testament and this is the only time it is translated "study." It was translated "forward" (Gal. 2:10); "endeavoring" (Eph. 4:3); "endeavored" (1 Thes. 2:17); "endeavor" (2 Pet. 1:15); "do. . .diligence" (2 Tim. 4:9, 21); "diligent" (Ti. 3:12, 2 Pet 3:14); and "labour" (Heb. 4:11).

The most common way this verse is interpreted is to say that if we study well, God approves of us and what we have done. It is more correctly interpreted that through our study, we prove to ourselves that we have been approved or accepted of God through the Lord Jesus Christ.
The English word "shew" or "show" was translated from the Greek word "PARISTEMI" which means, "to stand beside, i.e. to exhibit, proffer, (specifically) recommend, (figuratively) substantiate..." (Strong). It is through our study that we substantiate or exhibit that we are already accepted in Christ (Eph. 1:6).

Studying doesn't make us more accepted by God, nor does our lack of study make us less accepted by God. By our study we will be made more aware that God has already accepted us and our lack of study will make us less aware of that.
It is true that anyone who doesn't know the Word of God will come to shame. This verse is speaking about all sense of shame being driven from us by an understanding of our righteous position in Christ. This is the right use of the Word of God.

Paul is telling Timothy to study God's Word to discover his freedom from shame. That is always the proper use of God's Word. If an individual's study of God's Word produces condemnation instead of freedom from shame, then the Word of God is not being rightly divided.
Rightly dividing means to correctly dissect the Word of God. The New International Version translates it as, ". . .who correctly handles the word of truth." The Amplified Bible says, ". . .correctly analyzing and accurately dividing-rightly handling and skillfully teaching-the Word of Truth." There is a right and wrong way to interpret God's Word. You can preach a truth from a certain passage and yet it may not be the truth the verse is proclaiming. This is not handling the Word of God correctly.

The context of this statement is speaking about studying the Word of God for the purpose of proving to ourselves our righteous position in Christ. Once we comprehend and understand our acceptance in Christ, it will lead us to rightly divide all scripture in the light of this truth.

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« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2009, 10:01:30 AM »

Quote

"Study to show yourselves approved a workman unto to God"





2 Tim. 2:15: The word "study" in this passage does not mean to pursue knowledge by reading, etc., but rather it is the Greek verb "SPOUDAZO" which means "to make haste, to exert one's self, endeavor, and give diligence" (Thayer). It involves much more than just taking in knowledge.
The Liberty Bible Commentary states, "Study (Gk. SPOUDAZO) is not the normal word you think of as a student but a word used of a workman meaning 'give diligence,' 'endeavor,' or 'exert oneself.'" This is the reason the word "workman" is used later in this same verse.
This Greek word is used ten times in the New Testament and this is the only time it is translated "study." It was translated "forward" (Gal. 2:10); "endeavoring" (Eph. 4:3); "endeavored" (1 Thes. 2:17); "endeavor" (2 Pet. 1:15); "do. . .diligence" (2 Tim. 4:9, 21); "diligent" (Ti. 3:12, 2 Pet 3:14); and "labour" (Heb. 4:11).

The most common way this verse is interpreted is to say that if we study well, God approves of us and what we have done. It is more correctly interpreted that through our study, we prove to ourselves that we have been approved or accepted of God through the Lord Jesus Christ.
The English word "shew" or "show" was translated from the Greek word "PARISTEMI" which means, "to stand beside, i.e. to exhibit, proffer, (specifically) recommend, (figuratively) substantiate..." (Strong). It is through our study that we substantiate or exhibit that we are already accepted in Christ (Eph. 1:6).

Studying doesn't make us more accepted by God, nor does our lack of study make us less accepted by God. By our study we will be made more aware that God has already accepted us and our lack of study will make us less aware of that.
It is true that anyone who doesn't know the Word of God will come to shame. This verse is speaking about all sense of shame being driven from us by an understanding of our righteous position in Christ. This is the right use of the Word of God.

Paul is telling Timothy to study God's Word to discover his freedom from shame. That is always the proper use of God's Word. If an individual's study of God's Word produces condemnation instead of freedom from shame, then the Word of God is not being rightly divided.
Rightly dividing means to correctly dissect the Word of God. The New International Version translates it as, ". . .who correctly handles the word of truth." The Amplified Bible says, ". . .correctly analyzing and accurately dividing-rightly handling and skillfully teaching-the Word of Truth." There is a right and wrong way to interpret God's Word. You can preach a truth from a certain passage and yet it may not be the truth the verse is proclaiming. This is not handling the Word of God correctly.

The context of this statement is speaking about studying the Word of God for the purpose of proving to ourselves our righteous position in Christ. Once we comprehend and understand our acceptance in Christ, it will lead us to rightly divide all scripture in the light of this truth.




Thank you for this long explaination but it was not necessary.  I have used the scripture correctly in the context of my post.
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« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2009, 12:30:32 PM »

Quote
And yes I know that the Holy Spirit dwells in the Christian.  But I know also that the Holy Spirit filled many different people for many different reasons.  Not all involved the giving of supernatural abilities.  The promise of the Holy Spirit being given is the promise of salvation, not necessarily the promise of working miracles.

This is not a discussion about miracles but rather about recognizing Jesus and why those very well read Teachers of the Law and Pharisees did not.
As you can see, I think we can draw a parallel between them and "some" believers today.

There are Believers who though Saved, do not recognize Jesus or the voice of the Spirit of God because they are myopically fixated on the Letter of the Law rather than attuned to the hearing of the Spirit. This fixation causes them to see scriptures in isolated contexts, not understanding that the Bible is really about one story needing to be read in the context of that one story..... Redemption!

Therefore their understanding often times is not in context with the whole counsel of God sometimes not even in context with the passage or chapters from which they have extracted it.

It's sad that one can be so well read and still be so lacking in understanding of what one is reading.
Truly what Jesus quoted of the prophet Isaiah very aptly describes your plight.

so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" Mark 4:12

A Holy Spirit inspired reading of John 17 particularly John 17:20 reveals that what Jesus prayed for the disciples He prayed for ALL believers...this is basic doctrine to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying and whom allows the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning of the passages in the bible

John 17:20,12
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Jimmy I love being the one to tell you this so I will do so with joy.... if we are one with the Father just as Jesus is one with the Father, as Jesus prayed, and if God answered Jesus prayer which I'm sure you know He did....
...then we certainly have "access" to the same things as Jesus, just as promised the 12, just as He gave the 70, just as He gave the 120, just as the Holy Spirit empowered all the people throughout all the epistles both name and unnamed, who were pastors,teachers elders prophets and evangelists

Jimmy I hate to tell you this but the world will not believe just because we are well read. They will believe only if we glorify God just as Jesus glorified Him which is why Jesus prayer included all those who believe because of the message of the 12

Now HEAR this  Announcement

The Holy Spirit Saving you and regenerating your heart IS A MIRACLE!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS A MIRACLE!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS GOD!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS NOT DORMANT!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you is HE WHO GIFTS YOU AS HE WILLS!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you is ONLY LIMITED AS YOU LIMIT HIM!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you is HE WHO TEACHES WHAT THE SCRIPTURES MEAN!
The Holy Spirit abiding is you is ONLY LIMITED BY YOUR LIMITED PERCEPTION OF WHO HE IS AND WHY HE HAS BEEN GIVEN!

Now ...

The reason the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees didn't recognize Jesus

and

the reason you think Jesus limited His Gifts to only 12 men are pretty much one and the same

Because dear Jimmy .....
....you do not recognize the Holy Spirit abiding in you IS GOD,
that it is He who has promised to teach you and lead you,
it is He who will guide you into the Truth of what the scripture is saying,

It is He, God the Holy Spirit who is the healer
Its is He, God the Holy Spirit, who is the ultimate teacher of the Word
It is He God the Holy Spirit who works miracles and glorifies God the Father and God the Son yesterday today and forever for He is God and changes NOT!
It is HE who activates, motivates and inspires men to do great exploits that in turn glorify God here on earth and cause others to want to join the Household of Faith and share in the inheritance we have obtained through our adoption as sons  

Therefore instead of looking through the eyes of tradition, religious class-ism and legalism erroneously buying into the tradition of elevating 12 flawed men and a flawed murderous Pharisee who became Apostle to the Gentiles as some sort of special supernatural divine people who had something the rest of us don't such as and according to the traditions of the early Roman Catholics, which did and still does deify selected men according to the wisdom of man as if those they designate have some sort of aspect or attribute of divinity not available to the rest of us or  more than others of us who are of like precious faith as well as they....

...in effect ROBBING GOD OF THE GLORY ONLY DUE HIM by making yourself a respecter of persons when God clearly is not.

AND

Instead of wrongly assuming that the POWER of the GOD THE H0LY SPIRIT died with those 12 dead men and Paul ....
 
You should pray that in ALL of your extensive reading, YOU....by the Power of God the Holy Spirit abiding in YOU  BEGIN TO hear the voice of God

So that you don't continue to waddle in the same confusion as the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees....
....NOT RECOGNIZING GOD IN YOUR MIDST, THE WONDERS OF GOD and THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST THE HOLY SPIRIT ABIDING IN YOU!

But even more importantly
even if you refuse to acknowledge the Presence and Power of God residing in you, even if you refuse to receive for yourself every spiritual blessing, every good and perfect gift, your like precious faith and being a partaker of God's Divine Nature....
even if you refuse EVERYTHING God has freely Given All who Believe....

Please at least....

...Pray and ask God to give you the Grace not to MOCK those who do    

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
James 1:7

Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Luke 11:13

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 2 Peter 1:4

And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes." Mark 9:23

Why he said, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Ephesians 4:8


Acts 2:17,18  / Joel 2:28

“‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions,your old men will dream dreams.

Even on my servants, both men and women,

I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 04:54:14 PM by gospel » Logged

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mjrhealth
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« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2009, 03:35:36 PM »

The bible is not God, neither is God the bible, the bible is not above God yet God is limted to the bible by man and his wisdom. The pharrisees had the scriptures it became their idol. it kept them in darkness, through their laws and their teachings, so when the light came ( Jesus ) they did not see it, for they where blinded by the darkness, and so it is, that God sent us Jesus, to be our High Priest, the Holy Spirirt to be out teacher, but man and all his wisdom wrote a book, called it the bible, told the world that it was from God then taught it in latin so the people would not know what was being said for to men it was only for the righteous that should know, just as the pharrisees thought they where righteous, and so because of this book, man again is kept in darkness, and does not recognise the light, for the bible has become his God, and Jesus again who calls all people to Himself is left to find the few that will obey, and listen to Him, For AS He said, " the words that I speak they are spirit and they are Life", and " my sheep hear my voice and will follow no other". Is it that you think by studying the bible you will be more aproved of by God, God aproves of you because of the works of His Son not because of anything you do. The bible like the scriptures of old tell you of your hope in Jesus, it tells you thet He came to give us life, it tells yopu that He wants you to go to Him, yet like the pharrisees no one wants to be taught by Jesus. Jesus is not dead, if He is then our faith is dead, Jesus is alive and so it is we can go to and learn from Him, for as He said, " I am the way the truth and the life", and, "I am the bread of life, anyman who comes to me will not go hungry". So it is your choice, the dead letter or the living word.

In His Love
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« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2009, 03:35:36 PM »

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gospel
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« Reply #96 on: November 06, 2009, 04:48:01 PM »

The bible is not God, neither is God the bible, the bible is not above God yet God is limted to the bible by man and his wisdom. The pharrisees had the scriptures it became their idol. it kept them in darkness, through their laws and their teachings, so when the light came ( Jesus ) they did not see it, for they where blinded by the darkness, and so it is, that God sent us Jesus, to be our High Priest, the Holy Spirirt to be out teacher, but man and all his wisdom wrote a book, called it the bible, told the world that it was from God then taught it in latin so the people would not know what was being said for to men it was only for the righteous that should know, just as the pharrisees thought they where righteous, and so because of this book, man again is kept in darkness, and does not recognise the light, for the bible has become his God, and Jesus again who calls all people to Himself is left to find the few that will obey, and listen to Him, For AS He said, " the words that I speak they are spirit and they are Life", and " my sheep hear my voice and will follow no other". Is it that you think by studying the bible you will be more aproved of by God, God aproves of you because of the works of His Son not because of anything you do. The bible like the scriptures of old tell you of your hope in Jesus, it tells you thet He came to give us life, it tells yopu that He wants you to go to Him, yet like the pharrisees no one wants to be taught by Jesus. Jesus is not dead, if He is then our faith is dead, Jesus is alive and so it is we can go to and learn from Him, for as He said, " I am the way the truth and the life", and, "I am the bread of life, anyman who comes to me will not go hungry". So it is your choice, the dead letter or the living word.

In His Love

Excellent dear brother....manna to you!!
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Jimmy
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« Reply #97 on: November 06, 2009, 05:15:56 PM »

Quote
And yes I know that the Holy Spirit dwells in the Christian.  But I know also that the Holy Spirit filled many different people for many different reasons.  Not all involved the giving of supernatural abilities.  The promise of the Holy Spirit being given is the promise of salvation, not necessarily the promise of working miracles.

This is not a discussion about miracles but rather about recognizing Jesus and why those very well read Teachers of the Law and Pharisees did not.
As you can see, I think we can draw a parallel between them and "some" believers today.

There are Believers who though Saved, do not recognize Jesus or the voice of the Spirit of God because they are myopically fixated on the Letter of the Law rather than attuned to the hearing of the Spirit. This fixation causes them to see scriptures in isolated contexts, not understanding that the Bible is really about one story needing to be read in the context of that one story..... Redemption!

Therefore their understanding often times is not in context with the whole counsel of God sometimes not even in context with the passage or chapters from which they have extracted it.

It's sad that one can be so well read and still be so lacking in understanding of what one is reading.
Truly what Jesus quoted of the prophet Isaiah very aptly describes your plight.

so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" Mark 4:12

A Holy Spirit inspired reading of John 17 particularly John 17:20 reveals that what Jesus prayed for the disciples He prayed for ALL believers...this is basic doctrine to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying and whom allows the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning of the passages in the bible

John 17:20,12
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Jimmy I love being the one to tell you this so I will do so with joy.... if we are one with the Father just as Jesus is one with the Father, as Jesus prayed, and if God answered Jesus prayer which I'm sure you know He did....
...then we certainly have "access" to the same things as Jesus, just as promised the 12, just as He gave the 70, just as He gave the 120, just as the Holy Spirit empowered all the people throughout all the epistles both name and unnamed, who were pastors,teachers elders prophets and evangelists

Jimmy I hate to tell you this but the world will not believe just because we are well read. They will believe only if we glorify God just as Jesus glorified Him which is why Jesus prayer included all those who believe because of the message of the 12

Now HEAR this  Announcement

The Holy Spirit Saving you and regenerating your heart IS A MIRACLE!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS A MIRACLE!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS GOD!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS NOT DORMANT!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you is HE WHO GIFTS YOU AS HE WILLS!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you is ONLY LIMITED AS YOU LIMIT HIM!
The Holy Spirit abiding in you is HE WHO TEACHES WHAT THE SCRIPTURES MEAN!
The Holy Spirit abiding is you is ONLY LIMITED BY YOUR LIMITED PERCEPTION OF WHO HE IS AND WHY HE HAS BEEN GIVEN!

Now ...

The reason the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees didn't recognize Jesus

and

the reason you think Jesus limited His Gifts to only 12 men are pretty much one and the same

Because dear Jimmy .....
....you do not recognize the Holy Spirit abiding in you IS GOD,
that it is He who has promised to teach you and lead you,
it is He who will guide you into the Truth of what the scripture is saying,

It is He, God the Holy Spirit who is the healer
Its is He, God the Holy Spirit, who is the ultimate teacher of the Word
It is He God the Holy Spirit who works miracles and glorifies God the Father and God the Son yesterday today and forever for He is God and changes NOT!
It is HE who activates, motivates and inspires men to do great exploits that in turn glorify God here on earth and cause others to want to join the Household of Faith and share in the inheritance we have obtained through our adoption as sons  

Therefore instead of looking through the eyes of tradition, religious class-ism and legalism erroneously buying into the tradition of elevating 12 flawed men and a flawed murderous Pharisee who became Apostle to the Gentiles as some sort of special supernatural divine people who had something the rest of us don't such as and according to the traditions of the early Roman Catholics, which did and still does deify selected men according to the wisdom of man as if those they designate have some sort of aspect or attribute of divinity not available to the rest of us or  more than others of us who are of like precious faith as well as they....

...in effect ROBBING GOD OF THE GLORY ONLY DUE HIM by making yourself a respecter of persons when God clearly is not.

AND

Instead of wrongly assuming that the POWER of the GOD THE H0LY SPIRIT died with those 12 dead men and Paul ....
 
You should pray that in ALL of your extensive reading, YOU....by the Power of God the Holy Spirit abiding in YOU  BEGIN TO hear the voice of God

So that you don't continue to waddle in the same confusion as the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees....
....NOT RECOGNIZING GOD IN YOUR MIDST, THE WONDERS OF GOD and THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST THE HOLY SPIRIT ABIDING IN YOU!

But even more importantly
even if you refuse to acknowledge the Presence and Power of God residing in you, even if you refuse to receive for yourself every spiritual blessing, every good and perfect gift, your like precious faith and being a partaker of God's Divine Nature....
even if you refuse EVERYTHING God has freely Given All who Believe....

Please at least....

...Pray and ask God to give you the Grace not to MOCK those who do    

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
James 1:7

Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1

If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Luke 11:13

Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 2 Peter 1:4

And Jesus said to him, "'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes." Mark 9:23

Why he said, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Ephesians 4:8


Acts 2:17,18  / Joel 2:28

“‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions,your old men will dream dreams.

Even on my servants, both men and women,

I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.


Pretty much another case of gospel's diarrhea of the keyboard. 
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« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2009, 07:14:51 PM »

Quote
Pretty much another case of gospel's diarrhea of the keyboard.


Well Jimmy, to end on some kind of good note....

.... I must say there's certainly no shortage of visual imagery on your part!
 

Have a great weekend everyone!!!  Clapping up high
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« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2009, 07:14:51 PM »

 
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« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2009, 07:28:27 PM »

The Pharisees and teachers of the Law kept the Law as well as it good be kept. They were sticklers of the Law to the nth degree.

What kept them from recognizing God in the flesh, Jesus the Living Word of God, the Manna of Heaven, the Bread of Life? Reading

One reason is because they where hypocites. Jesus said in Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Another reason is the Parable of the Vineyard. Jesus said in Matthew 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.










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« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2009, 07:28:27 PM »

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« Reply #100 on: November 06, 2009, 08:27:55 PM »

It's highly debatable that there is much listening to each other happening on this thread.

So...not to bore people with yet another long post (which I think most people have a tendency to skip over anyway), I just wanted to add an unpopular reminder that it is Jesus (and His specific teachings found in the New Testament) that is the "word of God". The bible never gave this title to itself (in its entirety) nor makes these claims. It's just our modern MISunderstanding that places Jesus on the same level with everything else in the bible.

Please guys, can we stop demoting the life and teachings of Christ to just another part of the book that makes up "the word".

Everything he said and did stands out and beyond anything anyone else in the entire bible said or did. And when viewed in that light, I suspect that a great deal of confusion about which parts of the bible we should most seriously attempt to follow or live out in our own lives will become much clearer.

It will also help sort out who is just following their "bellies" (emotions and subjective "Jesus' " of our own private imaginations) and who is trying to follow the clear and objective teachings Jesus gave us.

And once again...Jesus did not teach or reiterate the "law". His teachings are quite different from what you will find in the Jewish "law". If he was just simply repeating the "law" then why on earth do we suppose he got into so much trouble with the "law keepers" who had him executed?

So if we want a relationship with Jesus, then maybe we should give another look at what He expected of us in order for the relationship to work?  "If you love me, you will obey me" and "IF you keep My commandments [if you continue to obey My instructions], you will abide in My love and live on in it, just as I have obeyed My Father's commandments and live on in His love."



Please "gospel", don't contribute to this "confusion", and don't allow yourself to become one of those who is guilty of "offending one of these little ones".

Interesting...in that I don't see "gospel" doing that at all.  If anything, what he is saying is that with Christ in us; we are held to a higher standard then the law...much higher...a standard of Christ Himself which is love, taking on His nature, being united with Him in Spirit and understanding...

Even the atheist can keep the law (big deal); Jesus wants us to have a relationship with Him, to grow through His Spirit and the Word.  To grow out of sins such as lust, hate, envy, unresolved anger, deceit, lying, sexual sins (yes, even masturbation) and anything that brings harm to our neighbor...or fear into someones life.  When we have suffered enough, we are done with sin.  Sin is its own destruction...which will either bring that person to Christ for a new life in HIM; or...they will harden their heart to the point where sin is "there life" and they could care less what it does to those around them.

The law is good; there is no dispute there.  However, where is the relationship with the law?  It will only cause those that follow it...to judge others based on their knowledge of it.  Leaving little room for mercy...however, if we follow the law of Christ; we are to carry one anothers burdens...in other words; love one another.  The law brings only judgement.....love brings mercy and grace which leads to hope and salvation.

Love drives out fear...because fear has to do with Judgment...the one that loves, has nothing to fear; for they have fullfilled the law of Christ...and the glory goes to God, because we can only do this with His love/Spirit in us...  


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« Reply #101 on: November 06, 2009, 08:47:34 PM »

So if we want a relationship with Jesus, then maybe we should give another look at what He expected of us in order for the relationship to work?  "If you love me, you will obey me" and "IF you keep My commandments [if you continue to obey My instructions], you will abide in My love and live on in it, just as I have obeyed My Father's commandments and live on in His love."

And we can only do this with His Spirit in us; we will search scripture and dig deep to grasp the love He has for us and the love He comands us to have for others.  It is His Spirit that gives us the longing to know God and His deep love for us.  It is His Spirit that give us the longing to rid ourself of sin that destroys.  It is His Spirit that convicts us and gives us hope.  

My friends...it is all Him; we are the child that listens and brings about His glory in our life.  True humility is knowing we are nothing without Him...

I believe that is what you are saying Indiglove...just clarifying for my own peace of mind.

One last thing...when we take the glory away from the cross and on to our efforts; our God becomes our stomach and our glory is in our shame.  It is all Jesus...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 09:29:31 PM by Thankfulldad » Logged

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« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2009, 06:38:07 PM »

Hey Thankfull,

Yeah, what you've just said is pretty much implied and understood regarding following Jesus.

The problem, however, is that even though Jesus wants us, as his body, to actually allow Him to do the things through us that He commanded us to do, we often react in some kind of a spiritual paralysis where we are too concerned that others will say we're trying to "work our way to heaven" if we get caught even TRYING to obey Jesus out of love for Him and others.

This more often than not translates to mean that we have almost no intention of ever doing what he taught us.

Take this simple command for example:

"Sell what you have and give to the poor"

No where in this teaching does Jesus imply that he has any concerns about us tooting our own horns by simply obeying him, especially since he also taught that we were to "give our alms (gifts to the poor) in secret". No, God will certainly get all the glory for this if we follow Christ, the question that remains is...

WILL WE follow Christ?
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« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2009, 06:38:07 PM »

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« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2009, 05:03:28 PM »

Those who truly kept the law or at least tried to where usually the Priest of the Temple as they wore them on their person. The reason they did not recognize Jesus as the promised Messiah is that first they did not understand the Spirit of God as they were not of God but of self appointment. They believed that a Priestly King would be of wealth and statue as the line of David where wealthy kings and since the promise of Messiah was from this lineage that he too would be a wealthy king sent from God. The Pharisees marveled at how Jesus knew law and also marveled at the things he taught, but even questioned Jesus how he knew all these things and who's authority he spoke under. It was only by Gods Spirit that revealed to Peter who Jesus truly was and it is still that Spirit that reveals the same to us today and forever.
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« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2009, 07:12:31 PM »

Hey Thankfull,

Yeah, what you've just said is pretty much implied and understood regarding following Jesus.

The problem, however, is that even though Jesus wants us, as his body, to actually allow Him to do the things through us that He commanded us to do, we often react in some kind of a spiritual paralysis where we are too concerned that others will say we're trying to "work our way to heaven" if we get caught even TRYING to obey Jesus out of love for Him and others.

This more often than not translates to mean that we have almost no intention of ever doing what he taught us.

Take this simple command for example:

"Sell what you have and give to the poor"

No where in this teaching does Jesus imply that he has any concerns about us tooting our own horns by simply obeying him, especially since he also taught that we were to "give our alms (gifts to the poor) in secret". No, God will certainly get all the glory for this if we follow Christ, the question that remains is...

WILL WE follow Christ?
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"Anyone who hears MY teaching and puts it into PRACTICE is likened unto a wise person, building his house upon the rock". --Jesus
Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus? - Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 Go Up Print 
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