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Author Topic: Why Did People Who Kept the Law not Recognize Jesus?  (Read 2362 times)
gospel
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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 06:44:54 PM »
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The Bible says their hearts were far from God.  That's why their law keeping was in vain.

Good answer Bonnie but you're begging the question so I'll kindly ask you in another way

If they were devoutly keeping and focused on the Law down to the smallest detail how could their hearts be far from God?

Put another way

Why did their strict attention, detail and focus on the Law produce hearts that were far from God?

Remember now, these were ordained Priest and Teachers! These were men of God totally given to and in devotion to His Word...how could anyone that focused on something so perfect end up so far from God and so far from Truth?
 
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"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27
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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 06:44:54 PM »
 
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fish153
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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2009, 06:49:05 PM »
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 05:52:46 PM
Quote from: fish153 on November 02, 2009, 05:18:23 PM
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 02:02:24 PM
The Pharisees and teachers of the Law kept the Law as well as it good be kept. They were sticklers of the Law to the nth degree.

What kept them from recognizing God in the flesh, Jesus the Living Word of God, the Manna of Heaven, the Bread of Life? Reading

gospel----

It shows that man can read the Bible---even carefully---and not understand what God is really saying at all.  For example:  The Jehovah's Witnesses study the Bible (at least they think they do)---they read the same verses we read--yet they say that Jesus Christ is not God.  How is that possible?  How can I read the Bible, and the JW's read the Bible, cover the same verses, and yet come to the conclusion Jesus is not God?

I think the answer is that the Holy Spirit has to open up and reveal Jesus to us. There are churches who are very religious.  There is a church on television every Sunday called "Iglesia ni Cristo" (The Church of Christ--origin Philippines)---they teach there is no Trinity, Jesus is not God, and that their church alone is the means to salvation.  

Their program is dedicated exclusively to opening up and reading many verses from the Bible to explain their teachings.  What is amazing though is how they make THEIR CHURCH the center of attention rather than Jesus Christ.  I watch their show in awe actually-----because despite all the Bible teaching it is very obvious the Holy Spirit is not the one teaching their doctrine----their leaders are.

So, the Pharisees had all the dogma, and tried to follow the Law to a "T", but their ears were closed to the Holy Spirit and therefore they could not see Jesus.

Excellent response!!!

By the way...I know someone who is a member of that church. He would come to our bible studies to try to learn the Gospel according to the Truth of the Bible but that church puts its members in so much bondage to doubt fear and unbelief, that he was more scared to be outcast from his family and friends then he was to accept the Gospel. He would get real close, he'd go home, they he'd have really scary nightmares. He believed those dreams was because he was cursed because he was committing blasphemy by accepting that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God.
This young man was really tormented and really scared so much so he brought a creepy atmosphere into our meetings.

Eventually we had to let him go and just pray that he would overcome one day 

That's so amazing how legalism and false teaching can completely take over a soul until it is deep into bondage and fear.  I watch their program called "The Message" on Sundays.  I know it's a waste of time in a way---but I keep watching as it amazes me that a church could go week after week after week without hardly mentioning Jesus at all.  And when they do they make sure to say "Jesus is not God"--it is truly amazing.

We know that when the Holy Spirit is teaching He will exalt and glorify Jesus and make Him central.  He will point to the cross and the power of the resurrection. Jesus even said the COMFORTER would speak of Him and teach us about Him----the comforter is not going to exalt a church, or a man-----He will exalt Jesus Christ alone.

So, it amazes me to watch a program use the Bible (and they use multiple versions) and yet hardly ever talk about Jesus and what he did on the cross.  
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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2009, 06:49:05 PM »
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 06:49:41 PM »
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 05:59:25 PM
Quote from: Charles Sloan on November 02, 2009, 05:39:21 PM
No one knew Jesus was the Christ before the Resurrection.

Aw c'mon Charles!

His gatherings were attended by thousands, He had 12 disciples and at least 120 devoted followers.

Hundreds maybe thousands of people were healed, fed, demons cast out people raised from the dead all of which took to believing and/or following Him because they believed He was who He said He was

Now I am asking you why didn't the keepers of the Law, the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law.... the people who knew and kept the Law better than all the Johnny and Susie Super Christians who are intent preaching the Law today...why is it those very devout holy men of God missed and did not recognize Jesus?

Put another way
How come their devotion to the Law did not help them recognize the very Messiah The Law and the Prophets so profoundly and abundantly speaks of ?


People knew he was a prophet, but that didn't mean they accepted him as the Christ.

All his disciples abandoned him in Gethsemane, but after the Resurrection they fearlessly stood up to the same accusers even faced with death. The people he fed abandoned him just after a few hard sayings, Jesus even said they followed him for food; nothing more. People thronged him for healing, exorcisms, and other miracles; these same people would laugh him to scorn or throw him out of their cites.

Isaiah 53:3 says Jesus was despised and rejected of men, not loved and accepted by men.
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soterion
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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2009, 06:50:54 PM »
They didn't recognize Jesus because God's plan through Jesus was a mystery, revealed only after Jesus ascended and sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high and then sent the Holy Spirit to remind and teach the apostles all things concerning Him (John 14:26; 15:26-27; 16:13; Acts 2:32-33).

If the rulers had known who Jesus really was, they would not have crucified Him (1 Corinthians 2:7-8).  From that Pentecost forward, even until now, that mystery is revealed in God's word and we can read/hear and understand (Romans 16:25-26; 1 Corinthians 2:12-13; Ephesians 3:3-6, 9-11).

I believe the apostles had some basic understanding of who Jesus was (John 6:68; Matthew 16:15-16), but they could not have known the nature of the kingdom,  His plan and how they fit into it.
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gospel
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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2009, 06:59:51 PM »
Quote from: soterion on November 02, 2009, 06:50:54 PM
They didn't recognize Jesus because God's plan through Jesus was a mystery, revealed only after Jesus ascended and sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high and then sent the Holy Spirit to remind and teach the apostles all things concerning Him (John 14:26; 15:26-27; 16:13; Acts 2:32-33).

If the rulers had known who Jesus really was, they would not have crucified Him (1 Corinthians 2:7-8).  From that Pentecost forward, even until now, that mystery is revealed in God's word and we can read/hear and understand (Romans 16:25-26; 1 Corinthians 2:12-13; Ephesians 3:3-6, 9-11).

I believe the apostles had some basic understanding of who Jesus was (John 6:68; Matthew 16:15-16), but they could not have known the nature of the kingdom,  His plan and how they fit into it.

Actually all you're really doing is making an excuse for them.

Jesus had thousands of followers! There was a " certain something" about Him that drew those who loved God. They recognized God in Jesus so the mystery doctrine means something a little different than how you're using it in regards to my question.
 
Among the believers was Nicodemus a religious leader!
But alas according to the bible...
....There were other religious leaders who believed

John 12
42 Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

How could a strict devotion to the Law allow them to prefer the approval of men over the approval of God?

Again I ask, if the Law is God's Way for man to live by.... how could those who follow the Law miss Jesus?  Pondering

but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." Romans 9:31,32

 Reading
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2009, 07:05:12 PM »
Quote from: Tantor on November 02, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Well as I remember they did know that Jesus was the Christ.  They refused to publically acknowledge Him as such due to their pride/lust I suppose.

Doubtful... just think how far along in his ministry that one of his disciples finally came to the realization of who Jesus actually was and confessed it. (Peter).


Yea, that's fine.  I'll stick with my answer without all the 'tude regarding those who utilize the law.

Silly me I thought it was an unrelated question.
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2009, 07:05:12 PM »
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gospel
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2009, 07:08:39 PM »
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: Tantor on November 02, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Well as I remember they did know that Jesus was the Christ.  They refused to publically acknowledge Him as such due to their pride/lust I suppose.

Doubtful... just think how far along in his ministry that one of his disciples finally came to the realization of who Jesus actually was and confessed it. (Peter).


Yea, that's fine.  I'll stick with my answer without all the 'tude regarding those who utilize the law.

Silly me I thought it was an unrelated question.

You're offended?
Wow!!

Oh well Its still a good question...maybe you ponder it a little and respond again later

God Bless Praying
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Bonnie
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2009, 07:22:45 PM »
Quote from: Thankfulldad on November 02, 2009, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on November 02, 2009, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: Thankfulldad on November 02, 2009, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on November 02, 2009, 06:13:13 PM
The Bible says their hearts were far from God.  That's why their law keeping was in vain.  

Put no confidence in the flesh...put all your confidence in the Spirit; then you know the heart of Christ...which is love, peace, joy, hope, faith, forgiveness, grace and mercy.

Against such things...there is no law...

A hearty amen, brother.

 Smile

Thank you my dear sister...

I've always believed that but I also believe the commandments teach us rightful living.
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Bonnie
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2009, 07:25:46 PM »
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 06:44:54 PM
Quote
The Bible says their hearts were far from God.  That's why their law keeping was in vain.

Good answer Bonnie but you're begging the question so I'll kindly ask you in another way

If they were devoutly keeping and focused on the Law down to the smallest detail how could their hearts be far from God?

Put another way

Why did their strict attention, detail and focus on the Law produce hearts that were far from God?

Remember now, these were ordained Priest and Teachers! These were men of God totally given to and in devotion to His Word...how could anyone that focused on something so perfect end up so far from God and so far from Truth?
 

Because Jesus told them that they honor him with their lips but their hearts were far from him.  They worshipped as a "show" before the people but inwardly they were full of dead men's bones. They did not love.
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Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2009, 07:25:46 PM »
 
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Thankfulldad
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2009, 07:28:44 PM »
Quote from: Bonnie on November 02, 2009, 07:22:45 PM
I've always believed that but I also believe the commandments teach us rightful living.

Amen...now my dear sister; love one another  Smile
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2009, 07:28:44 PM »
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gospel
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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2009, 07:41:53 PM »
Quote from: Bonnie on November 02, 2009, 07:25:46 PM
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 06:44:54 PM
Quote
The Bible says their hearts were far from God.  That's why their law keeping was in vain.

Good answer Bonnie but you're begging the question so I'll kindly ask you in another way

If they were devoutly keeping and focused on the Law down to the smallest detail how could their hearts be far from God?

Put another way

Why did their strict attention, detail and focus on the Law produce hearts that were far from God?

Remember now, these were ordained Priest and Teachers! These were men of God totally given to and in devotion to His Word...how could anyone that focused on something so perfect end up so far from God and so far from Truth?
 



Because Jesus told them that they honor him with their lips but their hearts were far from him.  They worshipped as a "show" before the people but inwardly they were full of dead men's bones. They did not love.

Great answer!

Manna to you!!
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ConqueredbyLove
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« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2009, 07:42:58 PM »
Quote from: fish153 on November 02, 2009, 06:49:05 PM


We know that when the Holy Spirit is teaching He will exalt and glorify Jesus and make Him central.  He will point to the cross and the power of the resurrection. Jesus even said the COMFORTER would speak of Him and teach us about Him----the comforter is not going to exalt a church, or a man-----He will exalt Jesus Christ alone.


Wonderful!  And so true!  Thank you!

The Pharisee's hearts were actually far from God, otherwise they would not have loved the praise of man so much. They felt threatened by Jesus as evidenced by their paranoia when they  realized how many people were following our Lord.  Look at their reaction after the raising of Lazareth and other miracles.  Look at their reaction on Psalm Sunday.

Their hearts were far from God because they loved the praise of man so much and they were so prideful.  Pride keeps us from God.  Thinking we are doing alright, compared to others, keeps us from God.

They also looked with contempt upon the "less than purebreds" such as the Samaritans.  The Pharisees thought they were better than everyone else, because they kept the law to a tee...

It is written (I am too lazy to look up now where it is) that they actually delivered Jesus because of envy.

I have to believe that some really did believe He was Messiah to come...the others did not recognize Jesus because they did not want to...pride can blind a person...
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Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like You have loved me

Break my heart for what breaks Yours
Everything I am for Your kingdom's cause
As I walk from earth into eternity

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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2009, 08:13:13 PM »
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 07:08:39 PM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: Tantor on November 02, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Well as I remember they did know that Jesus was the Christ.  They refused to publically acknowledge Him as such due to their pride/lust I suppose.

Doubtful... just think how far along in his ministry that one of his disciples finally came to the realization of who Jesus actually was and confessed it. (Peter).


Yea, that's fine.  I'll stick with my answer without all the 'tude regarding those who utilize the law.

Silly me I thought it was an unrelated question.

You're offended?
Wow!!

Oh well Its still a good question...maybe you ponder it a little and respond again later

God Bless Praying

Yes I'm finding Tantrum & Jiggywhiz to be quite offensive without reason.

 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

They knew.  There's no reason to have sent all those spies to follow Him around day & night if they didn't know.  And surely if there was any doubt, it was removed after hearing all the reports of the miracles He performed.
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« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2009, 08:13:13 PM »
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jiggyfly
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2009, 05:09:18 AM »
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I also believe the commandments teach us rightful living.

I do agree that it does help regulate carnal behavior but that is at it's best. It does nothing about purifying a person's heart.
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2009, 05:28:19 AM »
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: gospel on November 02, 2009, 07:08:39 PM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 07:05:12 PM
Quote from: Tantor on November 02, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: Dayvd on November 02, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Well as I remember they did know that Jesus was the Christ.  They refused to publically acknowledge Him as such due to their pride/lust I suppose.

Doubtful... just think how far along in his ministry that one of his disciples finally came to the realization of who Jesus actually was and confessed it. (Peter).


Yea, that's fine.  I'll stick with my answer without all the 'tude regarding those who utilize the law.

Silly me I thought it was an unrelated question.

You're offended?
Wow!!

Oh well Its still a good question...maybe you ponder it a little and respond again later

God Bless Praying

Yes I'm finding Tantrum & Jiggywhiz to be quite offensive without reason.

 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

They knew.  There's no reason to have sent all those spies to follow Him around day & night if they didn't know.  And surely if there was any doubt, it was removed after hearing all the reports of the miracles He performed.

Seems I got a new nickname,lol. I had no idea you had such a sensitive nature, I'll avoid replying to your posts unless its something I agree on.
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