Author Topic: Why I Called Out Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer (Read 5731 times)

Victor08 · « **on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 16:30:23 »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-rick-henderson/osteen-meyer-prosperity-gospel_b_3790384.html
Pastor Rick Henderson
Posted: 08/21/2013 11:37 am

I have been preaching for 20 years. Yesterday I did something that I have never done before in a sermon. I publicly called out false teachers and named them by name. I said:

If you listen to Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer, if you take what they teach seriously, it will not be good for you. It will be detrimental to your long-term growth as a follower of Jesus.

I used to think that their error was so blatantly obvious that they could just be ignored. I was wrong. They are massively growing in popularity in the evangelical world and are seen as credible and helpful. Before I'm inundated with questioning emails I want to share why I distrust these two and think you should as well. So, don't shoot me -- at least not yet.

When I was a kid I could tell the difference between neighborhood kids who wanted to be my friend from the neighborhood kids who were my friends so that they could play with my toys. Joel and Joyce are the latter. They both teach a twisted form of Christianity that teaches obedience, giving and faith as a way to get things from God. They are both products of what is known as the Prosperity Gospel and The Word of Faith Movement, or the Seed Faith Movement.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 16:30:23 »

JohnDB · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 19:15:20 »

Where this is a news article...I can see a storm a brewing. So I am going to move it to be discussed in a more appropriate forum.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 19:15:20 »

Helen · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 19:29:05 »

I always figured that if Jesus did not belong in a church (He was poor) and Paul did not belong in a church (he has something that could not be healed), that I probably did not belong in that church either.

But people want their ears tickled, their wallets full, and their bodies perfect. Forget their minds and hearts....

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 19:29:05 »

chosenone · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:38:01 »

Joyce Meyer is one of the best Christian teachers around. She is one of only a tiny number of American teachers my husband and I will listen to on God TV. Many are not worth bothering with. (I am English and he is Australian).

She definitely doesn't tickle my ears, her messages are very challenging, often hard to take, and very Biblical. God has challenged me and taught me many times though her teachings. She is a very godly lady, who has overcome many hardships and troubles in her life by applying the Bible and with the Holy Spirits leading.
I know people she has helped enormously, including myself, my husband and my son.
I have found that most who criticise her have not listened to many (if any)of her teachings.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:38:01 »

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JohnDB · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:46:39 »

Chosenone,

What about his very specific evidense that he listed and cited?

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:46:39 »

MyFathersGirl · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:49:22 »

I don't know about Joel because I don't watch him much and while we shouldn't be Christians just because of what God can do for us that doesn't mean that isn't what Joyce teaches. If whoever wrote this actually took the time to listen and read her teachings he'd know this. For example this week she is talking about combatting fear with faith. Heck one of the introductions on her teaching page is "When God doesn't give us what we want, He's teaching us what things are going to benefit us and what aren't, because He wants us to live the very best life we can." That doesn't sound like somebody who is saying that if we obey God we will get everything we want. She also talks about things like the power of the tongue, finding our identity in Christ, and overcoming negative thinking.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:49:22 »

MyFathersGirl · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:56:03 »

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:46:39

Chosenone,

What about his very specific evidense that he listed and cited?

I don't know what he was talking about. He obviously hasn't listened to many of her message. Heck see the introduction to one of the teachings I gave above. She isn't saying that you get whatever you want by following Him. Heck in some of her messages she has talked about obeying God by giving something away that He is telling us to give. She teaches that what we have is to be given away if God asks us to do it. That doesn't sound like somebody who thinks that we can have mansions, designer clothes, and expensive cars simply by following Christ.

chosenone · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:18:59 »

Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:49:22

I don't know about Joel because I don't watch him much and while we shouldn't be Christians just because of what God can do for us that doesn't mean that isn't what Joyce teaches. If whoever wrote this actually took the time to listen and read her teachings he'd know this. For example this week she is talking about combatting fear with faith. Heck one of the introductions on her teaching page is "When God doesn't give us what we want, He's teaching us what things are going to benefit us and what aren't, because He wants us to live the very best life we can." That doesn't sound like somebody who is saying that if we obey God we will get everything we want. She also talks about things like the power of the tongue, finding our identity in Christ, and overcoming negative thinking.

I agree with this. Her messages are very challenging, as I said, and are definitely NOT the 'feel good' messages that some of the worst TV preachers spout. Her messages are often hard hitting and very challenging to hear. In fact at times I have thought 'why do I listen to her, God keep using her to challenge me and its not comfortable' lol

If someone were to watch and listen to her a few dozen times, they would know this, but few critics do. They pick out maybe 1% that they see as wrong, while ignoring the 99% that is so helpful to so many, (and no one claims that anyone is perfect)

This man is of course entitled to his opinion, but if we worried what others said about every Bible teacher, there would be none left to listen to. When I think of the appalling teachers we have seen on God TV in the past, I cant help wonderful why this man didn't name them, because they really are BAD. My spirit has cringed in me when I have heard some of them, and this has never happened with Joyce. So why weren't they named I wonder?

All I can say is that she has helped us immensely, and many others who I know as well. Her gift of applying the word to our day to day lives is brilliant and so helpful to so many, especially women. As long as God keeps using her to speak to me and teach me I will keep listening to her.
I am not one to worry about what some guy who I have never heard of thinks or says(and nor is Joyce).

I think this man is crazy to name such an amazing godly woman in this way ,there will be spiritual repercussions and consequences for him in the future.

chosenone · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:21:29 »

Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:56:03

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:46:39
Chosenone,

What about his very specific evidense that he listed and cited?

I don't know what he was talking about. He obviously hasn't listened to many of her message. Heck see the introduction to one of the teachings I gave above. She isn't saying that you get whatever you want by following Him. Heck in some of her messages she has talked about obeying God by giving something away that He is telling us to give. She teaches that what we have is to be given away if God asks us to do it. That doesn't sound like somebody who thinks that we can have mansions, designer clothes, and expensive cars simply by following Christ.

Thats not what I get from her either. In fact she rarely talks about money in that way. She talks about giving a lot, and her ministry does fantastic work among the poor and disadvantaged all over the world.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:21:29 »

BlackSepulcher · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:48:01 »

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:38:01

Joyce Meyer is one of the best Christian teachers around. She is one of only a tiny number of American teachers my husband and I will listen to on God TV. Many are not worth bothering with. (I am English and he is Australian).

I know this teacher named Paul who says that she shouldn't be preaching.

JohnDB · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:49:06 »

Click the link. Read the entire article. He has direct quotes from both sermons & books.

He speaks both positively & negatively about her. His evidense is rather staggering and unsettling.

Listen to the youtube from john piper. Where I'm not a fan of his he does have some truth concerning this matter.

chosenone · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:01:33 »

Quote from: BlackSepulcher on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:48:01

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:38:01
Joyce Meyer is one of the best Christian teachers around. She is one of only a tiny number of American teachers my husband and I will listen to on God TV. Many are not worth bothering with. (I am English and he is Australian).

I know this teacher named Paul who says that she shouldn't be preaching.

Which Paul would that be then

The thing is that God uses her ministry, and God uses her to help countless people, that's good enough for me.
In the end we are all helped by different teachers. In the UK there are some outstanding teachers, many female, and Joyce ranks up there with the best of them. She is an inspiration to me and many others of what God can do with a broken damaged life. She gives people hope.

I don't listen to what others say, their criticisms, judgements and attacks. I go by what God says to me, and who HE uses to speak to me, teach me and challenge me. That's my best guide.

So many who criticise rarely listen to her, that's the weird thing. I don't know this guy or who he is, so why do I need to take any notice of what he says? I thought the spirit was to be our guide?

AVZ · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:03:19 »

I recently became very interested in the prosperity teaching. In the country where I live we have seen one church being taken to court by the government for embezzling of millions of dollars, and another church has become scrutinized since the pastor lives in a multi-million dollar house and enjoys a salary of over US 500,000
In Australia a mega-church has become heavily criticized due to millions of dollars disappearing and the head pastor living in a house at the most expensive location in the country.

These things do not add up!

During my trips in the USA I have listened various times to Joyce Meyer, and I have never taken offence with her message.
Yes, she may be wrong on some issues, but she does not strike me like a person who is at the top of an organization that has the goal to drain as much funds from the flock.

On the other side you have people like Joel Osteen who clearly targets wallets and preaches what people want to hear.

What however bothers me in all these sermons is the excessive display of mega screens, light effects, pop culture effects and reverence of the pastor.
The pastor comes on stage and the congregation goes nuts!
I do not see Jesus in that, I do not see the apostles in that.

Another thing that bothers me is the ease in which people become born-again Christians.
Just stick your hand in the air, come forward, get baptized...and now you are done.
That is not right. It is conversion by emotion, and not conversion by faith. People get swept away by the overwhelming affect of the thousands of happy souls around them.

These mega-churches are the reason why there are so many people that call themselves Christian but who live like the world, think like the world and lack any understanding.
We ought to be very careful with these churches. If people would know the real message of the gospel, they wouldn't be standing on top of their seats.

chosenone · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:19:32 »

Quote from: AVZ on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:03:19

I recently became very interested in the prosperity teaching. In the country where I live we have seen one church being taken to court by the government for embezzling of millions of dollars, and another church has become scrutinized since the pastor lives in a multi-million dollar house and enjoys a salary of over US 500,000
In Australia a mega-church has become heavily criticized due to millions of dollars disappearing and the head pastor living in a house at the most expensive location in the country.

These things do not add up!

During my trips in the USA I have listened various times to Joyce Meyer, and I have never taken offence with her message.
Yes, she may be wrong on some issues, but she does not strike me like a person who is at the top of an organization that has the goal to drain as much funds from the flock.

On the other side you have people like Joel Osteen who clearly targets wallets and preaches what people want to hear.

What however bothers me in all these sermons is the excessive display of mega screens, light effects, pop culture effects and reverence of the pastor.
The pastor comes on stage and the congregation goes nuts!
I do not see Jesus in that, I do not see the apostles in that.

Another thing that bothers me is the ease in which people become born-again Christians.
Just stick your hand in the air, come forward, get baptized...and now you are done.
That is not right. It is conversion by emotion, and not conversion by faith. People get swept away by the overwhelming affect of the thousands of happy souls around them.

These mega-churches are the reason why there are so many people that call themselves Christian but who live like the world, think like the world and lack any understanding.
We ought to be very careful with these churches. If people would know the real message of the gospel, they wouldn't be standing on top of their seats.

There will always be those who are crooks and who take advantage, and you get them in small or large churches.. However Joel doesn't target wallets. I have heard him preach many times and NOT ONCE did he ask for money. His great gift is encouragement and boy do we need that today.

The only difference between a large church and a small church is the number of people. I love to see thousands of believers all gather together, the more believers in God kingdom the better as far as I am concerned. I wish we had more larger churches in the UK, but we just don't have the room or facilities . The larger churches can offer so much more in the way of help, outreach, community support, help groups for specific things etc. Small churches are very limited in that they can do for the church family and the community they live in.

Just wanted to also mention that I know many believers who were converted in the way you describe, giving their lives to Jesus after an alter call of some sort. They are still following God many many years later. Their conversion was 100% genuine.

JohnDB · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:32:49 »

Of course there was the whole congressional investigation into Joyce's ultra lavish lifestyle including a golden cammode on top of a ten million dollar private jet.

Mere Nick · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 00:00:34 »

While I don't have anything to add to the conversation about the two mentioned, Myer and Osteen, other than what their names are, the prosperity gospel turns my stomach whoever it is that is trying to sell it. It is almost as vile as Islam.

With the exceptions of those murdered or killed in accidents, we will all get sick and die and it is not unusual to have tough financial times in life. It seems incredibly cruel to tell someone deadly sick or near broke that it is because they are on the outs with God. When I think of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, or the millions of martyrs over the years, as well as many other similar examples, how can I think of the prosperity gospel as something other than bull butter?

AVZ · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 00:12:55 »

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:32:49

Of course there was the whole congressional investigation into Joyce's ultra lavish lifestyle including a golden cammode on top of a ten million dollar private jet.

Didn't know about the private jet.
There goes another preacher down the drain...

MyFathersGirl · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 00:37:56 »

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:49:06

Click the link. Read the entire article. He has direct quotes from both sermons & books.

He speaks both positively & negatively about her. His evidense is rather staggering and unsettling.

Listen to the youtube from john piper. Where I'm not a fan of his he does have some truth concerning this matter.

I just clicked the link and he didn't do a very good job providing proof. All he gives I little 10 or 15 second clip on most of them. If you take something out of context you can make it sound like anything you want it to be. If he wants to provide it as evidence why doesn't he provide a link or the entire sermon so that we can get the context and see if she is really saying what he is implying.

.:Lily:. · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 04:31:45 »

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:49:06

Click the link. Read the entire article. He has direct quotes from both sermons & books.

He speaks both positively & negatively about her. His evidense is rather staggering and unsettling.

Listen to the youtube from john piper. Where I'm not a fan of his he does have some truth concerning this matter.

John Piper also had his mistakes and taught few false doctrines and people corrected him. Nobody is perfect.

I do not hear Joyce Meyer preaching any of these "false doctrines." I read that some of these doctrines were removed from her books. Probably, she does not teach any of that anymore. I'm not sure why many men do not like her. They must be jealous or something? She is not the only lady who helped many people. There are many gifted women. I mostly listen to Pastor Paula white but I'm not a fan of TV preachers. I also listen to Beth Moore, Pastor Melissa Scott and other spirit-led women. It is my responsibility to know what is biblical and not. I never found anyone who I agree with them on everything. I guess that happens only in cults. They seem to agree on everything.

Statement of Faith - JoyceMeyer

http://www.joycemeyer.org/AboutUs/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

I do not see any false doctrine in her statement of faith but she should have more details in my opinion.

chosenone · « **Reply #19 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 04:56:26 »

Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 00:37:56

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:49:06
Click the link. Read the entire article. He has direct quotes from both sermons & books.

He speaks both positively & negatively about her. His evidense is rather staggering and unsettling.

Listen to the youtube from john piper. Where I'm not a fan of his he does have some truth concerning this matter.

I just clicked the link and he didn't do a very good job providing proof. All he gives I little 10 or 15 second clip on most of them. If you take something out of context you can make it sound like anything you want it to be. If he wants to provide it as evidence why doesn't he provide a link or the entire sermon so that we can get the context and see if she is really saying what he is implying.

Anyone can discredit anyone by doing that. That's what the media does all the time, take things out of context, use snippets of conversation and make out that people say and do things they never say or do. Use things from years ago that are past, to judge people now.

Also we need to take account of the fact that we ALL make mistakes, and say and do things that we later regret or know that were wrong. Teachers are not perfect.

I actually think that its often the case that the more a well known Christian is attacked, the more they are shining for God. Satan will use whoever he can to attack Gods children, and to try and discredit them in anyway he can, even if its using other believers. I have even heard Christians attack and try and discredit Billy Graham and Derek Prince, two of the most godly and Spiritually gifted men of the last century in my view(and in the view of many others). Thats why I dont listen to such people, and made my own decisions, especially if I have never heard of them.

chosenone · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 05:02:36 »

Quote from: .:Lily:. on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 04:31:45

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:49:06
Click the link. Read the entire article. He has direct quotes from both sermons & books.

He speaks both positively & negatively about her. His evidense is rather staggering and unsettling.

Listen to the youtube from john piper. Where I'm not a fan of his he does have some truth concerning this matter.

John Piper also had his mistakes and taught few false doctrines and people corrected him. Nobody is perfect.

I do not hear Joyce Meyer preaching any of these "false doctrines." I read that some of these doctrines were removed from her books. Probably, she does not teach any of that anymore. I'm not sure why many men do not like her. They must be jealous or something? She is not the only lady who helped many people. There are many gifted women. I mostly listen to Pastor Paula white but I'm not a fan of TV preachers. I also listen to Beth Moore, Pastor Melissa Scott and other spirit-led women. It is my responsibility to know what is biblical and not. I never found anyone who I agree with them on everything. I guess that happens only in cults. They seem to agree on everything.

Statement of Faith - JoyceMeyer

http://www.joycemeyer.org/AboutUs/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

I do not see any false doctrine in her statement of faith but she should have more details in my opinion.

I have listened to her countless times, and have never felt uneasy about anything she has said or taught. I felt very uneasy about many other American preachers and what they teach, and would never listen to them. I think you are right that many men are against Joyce's ministry merely because she is female. She has the full support and backing of her husband of course.
The thing is that its only women who can really relate to other women, and that's why she helps so many of them in their walk with God.

IT really doesn't bother me what other believers own, that is between them and God. We have a few well off people in my church, so what. I can either be pleased for them or I can be jealous and resentful. Its my choice. Its not money that ruins someone, its their attitudes to wealth that is the issue.

If people dont like her, then don't listen to her, but don't make decisions based on what someone else has said, and don't attack well known believers who you know practically nothing about.

JohnDB · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 07:32:08 »

The sound bites in the article are not out of context. There are transcripts of the sound bites & quotes from her in the article in boxes.

First off. Jesus is God. Jesus cannot be in Hell. Nor would God send Jesus there. Jesus never stopped being God. Not even on the cross while singing the 22nd Psalm. Jesus becoming sin is an expression from the Ancient Near East & doesn't really mean that Jesus was not God.

Then to go on and claim that she herself has information of theology that the Bible cannot state is exhorbitantly wicked & twisted.

All of these things she claims along with her ultra lavish lifestyle and congressional investigation make me run from her as if she is the whore of babylon.

She may have good practical advice at times but theologicaly she is a disaster.

Man_Of_Honor · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 07:46:45 »

Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 07:32:08

The sound bites in the article are not out of context. There are transcripts of the sound bites & quotes from her in the article in boxes.

First off. Jesus is God. Jesus cannot be in Hell. Nor would God send Jesus there. Jesus never stopped being God. Not even on the cross while singing the 22nd Psalm. Jesus becoming sin is an expression from the Ancient Near East & doesn't really mean that Jesus was not God.

Then to go on and claim that she herself has information of theology that the Bible cannot state is exhorbitantly wicked & twisted.

All of these things she claims along with her ultra lavish lifestyle and congressional investigation make me run from her as if she is the whore of babylon.

She may have good practical advice at times but theologicaly she is a disaster.

Seems like a few is more focused on her appearance then what comes out of her lips.

Fame and status is what plenty seek for. Rather disturbing they use God to reach that point.

candy · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 13:31:00 »

All I know is I've learned a lot from Joyce Meyer. As Gods body we can be very different people with very different views on any subject. For me Joyce is very biblical and I feel convicted and learn from her. God uses many different people throughout the world
to reach others. In other words what's good for one, may not necessarily be good for the other. God knows who's good for who. The best thing is that God reads man's heart and knows his intentions. I don't know much about Joel Olsteen but when I see him, I'll know if he's good for me or not. If Joyce Meyer or Joel Olsteen are wrong for people then those people shouldn't be listening to them just to make judgment calls that only God can make. My thoughts.
Candy

chosenone · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 14:21:56 »

Quote from: candy on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 13:31:00

All I know is I've learned a lot from Joyce Meyer. As Gods body we can be very different people with very different views on any subject. For me Joyce is very biblical and I feel convicted and learn from her. God uses many different people throughout the world
to reach others. In other words what's good for one, may not necessarily be good for the other. God knows who's good for who. The best thing is that God reads man's heart and knows his intentions. I don't know much about Joel Olsteen but when I see him, I'll know if he's good for me or not. If Joyce Meyer or Joel Olsteen are wrong for people then those people shouldn't be listening to them just to make judgment calls that only God can make. My thoughts.
Candy

Wise words Candy, and I feel the same. She has helped me a lot and taught me a lot of really good stuff, straight from the Bible.
I am sure that some of the other teachers that I would never listen to are helpful to some people also.

BlackSepulcher · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 18:54:01 »

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:01:33

Quote from: BlackSepulcher on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:48:01
Quote from: chosenone on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:38:01
Joyce Meyer is one of the best Christian teachers around. She is one of only a tiny number of American teachers my husband and I will listen to on God TV. Many are not worth bothering with. (I am English and he is Australian).

I know this teacher named Paul who says that she shouldn't be preaching.

Which Paul would that be then

I give up on this subject_

chosenone · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 19:11:09 »

Quote from: BlackSepulcher on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 18:54:01

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 23:01:33
Quote from: BlackSepulcher on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 22:48:01
Quote from: chosenone on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 21:38:01
Joyce Meyer is one of the best Christian teachers around. She is one of only a tiny number of American teachers my husband and I will listen to on God TV. Many are not worth bothering with. (I am English and he is Australian).

I know this teacher named Paul who says that she shouldn't be preaching.

Which Paul would that be then

I give up on this subject_

I didn't know what you meant. Paul who? If you mean THE Paul, as in Paul of the Bible, then of course he said nothing about her.

notreligus · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 19:34:28 »

Mark 9:40 For he who is not against us is for us.

JohnDB · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 21:56:29 »

1st clue: Joyce & Joel peddle the Word of God for profit.

2nd reasonable deduction from first clue: They will say anything that they think you want to hear.

3rd fact. In complete reversal of Jesus' lifestyle AND ALL the Apostles lifestyles Joyce and Joel both declare that luxury now is a sign of God's favor. That chasing after wealth is OK so long as you give verbal acknowlegment to God. Other than that nothing else about you need change. Not vulgar speech or denying yourself any luxury. They use some of the most extremely rarest instances of wealthy men in the Biblle to uphold this claim. The vast majority of God's special kids were dirt poor.

But go ahead and buy another one of Joyce's books or better yet just give her some cash. I hear that her private jet needs some new tires and she is wanting another Lexus because someone perspired in the old one bought brand new last year.

MyFathersGirl · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:05:03 »

Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 21:56:29

1st clue: Joyce & Joel peddle the Word of God for profit.

2nd reasonable deduction from first clue: They will say anything that they think you want to hear.

3rd fact. In complete reversal of Jesus' lifestyle AND ALL the Apostles lifestyles Joyce and Joel both declare that luxury now is a sign of God's favor. That chasing after wealth is OK so long as you give verbal acknowlegment to God. Other than that nothing else about you need change. Not vulgar speech or denying yourself any luxury. They use some of the most extremely rarest instances of wealthy men in the Biblle to uphold this claim. The vast majority of God's special kids were dirt poor.

But go ahead and buy another one of Joyce's books or better yet just give her some cash. I hear that her private jet needs some new tires and she is wanting another Lexus because someone perspired in the old one bought brand new last year.

She needs a private jet because of all the conferences and mission work she does. She is definitely not in the the ministry for the money. Where Women of Faith charge for their conferences Joyce does hers for free. The only offering taken was for the missionary work that she does. I called her ministry when beauty for ashes came out to see if I could pay a little at a time. They said that it was okay and they'd send me out a copy of it for free. As far as nothing about you needing to change, you haven't really listened to any of her teachings have you? She is constantly talking about changing the way you talk, think and live to be more like Christ.

As far as the evidence, yes he had boxes but those were only transcripts of the sound bites. There was only one example that he gave the source so somebody could check out the whole thing.

AVZ · « **Reply #30 on:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:10:29 »

We have become very sad if we do no longer discern a preacher by his/her life style.

There are two scripture passages that come to mind:

Matthew 6:19-24
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Matthew 7:18-27
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

We should "judge" our teachers according to the above.
What they do represents who they are and what they preach.
A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

HRoberson · « **Reply #31 on:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:17:26 »

Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:05:03

Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 21:56:29
1st clue: Joyce & Joel peddle the Word of God for profit.

2nd reasonable deduction from first clue: They will say anything that they think you want to hear.

3rd fact. In complete reversal of Jesus' lifestyle AND ALL the Apostles lifestyles Joyce and Joel both declare that luxury now is a sign of God's favor. That chasing after wealth is OK so long as you give verbal acknowlegment to God. Other than that nothing else about you need change. Not vulgar speech or denying yourself any luxury. They use some of the most extremely rarest instances of wealthy men in the Biblle to uphold this claim. The vast majority of God's special kids were dirt poor.

But go ahead and buy another one of Joyce's books or better yet just give her some cash. I hear that her private jet needs some new tires and she is wanting another Lexus because someone perspired in the old one bought brand new last year.

She needs a private jet because of all the conferences and mission work she does. She is definitely not in the the ministry for the money.

Because there are no commercial airlines that go where she needs to go.

MyFathersGirl · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:23:35 »

Quote from: HRoberson on Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:17:26

Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:05:03
Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 21:56:29
1st clue: Joyce & Joel peddle the Word of God for profit.

2nd reasonable deduction from first clue: They will say anything that they think you want to hear.

3rd fact. In complete reversal of Jesus' lifestyle AND ALL the Apostles lifestyles Joyce and Joel both declare that luxury now is a sign of God's favor. That chasing after wealth is OK so long as you give verbal acknowlegment to God. Other than that nothing else about you need change. Not vulgar speech or denying yourself any luxury. They use some of the most extremely rarest instances of wealthy men in the Biblle to uphold this claim. The vast majority of God's special kids were dirt poor.

But go ahead and buy another one of Joyce's books or better yet just give her some cash. I hear that her private jet needs some new tires and she is wanting another Lexus because someone perspired in the old one bought brand new last year.

She needs a private jet because of all the conferences and mission work she does. She is definitely not in the the ministry for the money.
Because there are no commercial airlines that go where she needs to go.

As much as she travels she is actually saving money by having a private jet and yet she goes to some pretty remote parts of the world that are not served my major airlines.

HRoberson · « **Reply #33 on:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:29:54 »

Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:23:35

Quote from: HRoberson on Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:17:26
Quote from: MyFathersGirl on Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:05:03
Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Aug 24, 2013 - 21:56:29
1st clue: Joyce & Joel peddle the Word of God for profit.

2nd reasonable deduction from first clue: They will say anything that they think you want to hear.

3rd fact. In complete reversal of Jesus' lifestyle AND ALL the Apostles lifestyles Joyce and Joel both declare that luxury now is a sign of God's favor. That chasing after wealth is OK so long as you give verbal acknowlegment to God. Other than that nothing else about you need change. Not vulgar speech or denying yourself any luxury. They use some of the most extremely rarest instances of wealthy men in the Biblle to uphold this claim. The vast majority of God's special kids were dirt poor.

But go ahead and buy another one of Joyce's books or better yet just give her some cash. I hear that her private jet needs some new tires and she is wanting another Lexus because someone perspired in the old one bought brand new last year.

She needs a private jet because of all the conferences and mission work she does. She is definitely not in the the ministry for the money.
Because there are no commercial airlines that go where she needs to go.

As much as she travels she is actually saving money by having a private jet and yet she goes to some pretty remote parts of the world that are not served my major airlines.

Of course she is. Do you know how much a jet costs? Maintenance costs, fuel costs, apron rentals, crew salaries?
The Canadair costs, according to Meyers, $10 million dollars. Could you tell me how many $500 tickets that would buy?

Oh, about 20,000 of them. If she flew somewhere every day, it would take her 54 years to cover the cost of the plane.

Yup, she needs that jet.

HRoberson · « **Reply #34 on:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 - 01:45:09 »

$10 million is what Meyers says the plane is "worth." New price? About $25 million.

So, instead of 54 years, it would take her around 135 years if she flew on a $500 ticket every day.

Need?

I think not.

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