GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Donate | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter

Author Topic: Why vinegar at the cross?  (Read 7735 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Elaine

  • Joint Heir, same as you!
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3710
  • Manna: 507
  • Gender: Female
  • That's not coffee in that cup!
    • View Profile
Why vinegar at the cross?
« on: March 18, 2009, 06:57:14 AM »
I have heard many things about the vinegar that was given to Jesus and others on the cross.

Vinegar was medicinal -it was actually a good thing.
It was an additional horrible torture of the Romans.
It was laced with either dope to ease pain or something to speed death.
It was actually laced with a drug planned to be given by Pilate and rich Joseph to mimic death so Joseph (of Arimathea) could spirit Jesus away from Joseph's tomb.

The last one you don't have to waste time commenting on.

Was it a "good" medicinal thing or another horror.   Why not water on a sponge for the dying men, for Pete's sake.
__________________________________________________________

Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to go right now!

__________________________________________________________

Christian Forums and Message Board

Why vinegar at the cross?
« on: March 18, 2009, 06:57:14 AM »

Offline jessbuds

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 411
  • Manna: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 07:18:07 AM »

I think it did happened because it was prohesied long ago?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 07:18:07 AM »

Offline Jimbob

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21529
  • Manna: 439
  • Gender: Male
  • Experiencing technical difficulties.
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 07:40:43 AM »

I think it did happened because it was prohesied long ago?

Are you thinking of Psalm 69:21?

Quote
19 You know how I am scorned, disgraced and shamed;
all my enemies are before you.
20 Scorn has broken my heart
and has left me helpless;
I looked for sympathy, but there was none,
for comforters, but I found none.
21 They put gall in my food
and gave me vinegar for my thirst.


NIV
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 07:40:43 AM »

Offline phoebe

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6778
  • Manna: 344
  • Gender: Female
  • FlowerFarmer
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 08:39:04 AM »
The vinegar was mixed with gall, which is a type of drug/poison. I find it interesting that Scripture says:

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

After He drank the gall-laced vinegar, He died. So, it makes sense to me that it was poisonous. Not saying that is proof, but it is logical.

"IMO"

I have one Head, and one Head only-Jesus Christ

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 08:39:04 AM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Mystery Man

  • Guest
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 08:44:43 AM »
The vinegar was mixed with gall, which is a type of drug/poison. I find it interesting that Scripture says:

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

After He drank the gall-laced vinegar, He died. So, it makes sense to me that it was poisonous. Not saying that is proof, but it is logical.



It was just pure vinegar and nothing else.  It was a fulfilling of prophecy.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 08:44:43 AM »



Offline Jimbob

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21529
  • Manna: 439
  • Gender: Male
  • Experiencing technical difficulties.
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 08:59:05 AM »
The vinegar was mixed with gall, which is a type of drug/poison. I find it interesting that Scripture says:

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

After He drank the gall-laced vinegar, He died. So, it makes sense to me that it was poisonous. Not saying that is proof, but it is logical.


That's a logical fallacy known as "Post hoc ergo propter hoc."
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 08:59:05 AM »

Offline phoebe

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6778
  • Manna: 344
  • Gender: Female
  • FlowerFarmer
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 10:36:48 AM »
The vinegar was mixed with gall, which is a type of drug/poison. I find it interesting that Scripture says:

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

After He drank the gall-laced vinegar, He died. So, it makes sense to me that it was poisonous. Not saying that is proof, but it is logical.


That's a logical fallacy known as "Post hoc ergo propter hoc."

I'm familiar with the terms. That doesn't mean it doesn't have some validity. It was written this way for a reason.

I don't think it should be brushed aside so quickly.

The vinegar was mixed with gall, which is a type of drug/poison. I find it interesting that Scripture says:

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

After He drank the gall-laced vinegar, He died. So, it makes sense to me that it was poisonous. Not saying that is proof, but it is logical.



It was just pure vinegar and nothing else.  It was a fulfilling of prophecy.

No, it wasn't "pure" vinegar. It was soured. Soldier's issue of spoiled wine. Given to help them with injuries, to relieve some of their pain. Like whiskey at the OK Corral. Or taken in large quantity to take one's own life. It was in accordance with Jewish custom. Spice mixed with myrrh in sufficient quantity to make a pain-killing/lethal drug.

I think the argument has enough validity to be considered.
"IMO"

I have one Head, and one Head only-Jesus Christ

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 12:10:10 PM »
My understanding, though with no more scripture than has already been offered is that gall supposedly acted as an opiate, or relaxer and reliever of pain. The Lord denied it having came to suffer for the sins of the world. He didn't spill His blood as some claim, He pour it out for us; praise His holy name.

In Jesus' name - larry2

Offline phoebe

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6778
  • Manna: 344
  • Gender: Female
  • FlowerFarmer
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 12:12:05 PM »
My understanding, though with no more scripture than has already been offered is that gall supposedly acted as an opiate, or relaxer and reliever of pain. The Lord denied it having came to suffer for the sins of the world. He didn't spill His blood as some claim, He pour it out for us; praise His holy name.

In Jesus' name - larry2

Yes, and while Matthew, Mark and Luke don't, John records that he did take some when offered again.
"IMO"

I have one Head, and one Head only-Jesus Christ

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 12:12:05 PM »

Offline Jimbob

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21529
  • Manna: 439
  • Gender: Male
  • Experiencing technical difficulties.
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 12:15:37 PM »
Do its effects really matter considering Matthew 27:34 (other than that its effects appear, as Larry2 pointed, to be why he refused to drink it)? 

"...they offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall, but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." Mt. 27:34 ESV

Anywho, what you didn't drink can't have killed you.

“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 12:15:37 PM »

Offline phoebe

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6778
  • Manna: 344
  • Gender: Female
  • FlowerFarmer
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 12:36:43 PM »
What about John's rendition that He did drink?
"IMO"

I have one Head, and one Head only-Jesus Christ

Mystery Man

  • Guest
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 12:53:49 PM »
What about John's rendition that He did drink?


It says in John , it was just vinegar. John 19:29 & 30.   In verse 28 it states - "After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst"

Putting it upon the hyssop was to purge him - Psalm 51:7.  Which means to be freed from guilt.

hyssop was an arromatic herb

larry2

  • Guest
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2009, 01:09:23 PM »
Just a thought. Has it occured that since scripture would not contradict itself, there could be two different occurences when vinigar was offered? Once with gall and the next without?

In Jesus' name - larry2

Offline Jimbob

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21529
  • Manna: 439
  • Gender: Male
  • Experiencing technical difficulties.
    • View Profile
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2009, 01:14:37 PM »
It was offered twice.  The reference in John says that when we received it, he said, "It is finished."  "Received" however is open to interpretation, and doesn't entirely clear much up.
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley

Mystery Man

  • Guest
Re: Why vinegar at the cross?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2009, 01:21:22 PM »
It was offered twice.  The reference in John says that when we received it, he said, "It is finished."  "Received" however is open to interpretation, and doesn't entirely clear much up.

Yes, it was offered to him twice.  The first time is recorded in Matthew27:34 , but he would not drink it.

Mark 15:36 is just vinegar

In John 19:30 it was just vinegar and he drank it