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jiggyfly
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« on: November 07, 2009, 05:12:08 AM »

Will God Save All or Only Some?
"Faithful is the saying and worthy of all acceptation. For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, Who is the Savior of all men, specially of them that believe. These things command and teach"
(1 Tim. 4:9-11, R.V.)

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Think of it -- the living God IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN! Not the "preserver" of all, as some would have us believe. The Greek work used here is SOTER. It occurs twenty-four times in the New Testament and is correctly translated "Savior" every time.

See Luke 1:47; 2:11; John 4:42; Acts 5:31; 13:23; Eph. 5:23; Phil. 3:20; 1 Tim 1:1; 2:3; 4:10; 2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:3, 4; 2:10, 13; 3:4, 6; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11; 2:20; 3:2, 18; 1 John 4:14; Jude 25.

Nor does the text say, God is the "provider" of salvation for all. This would not make Him the Savior of all. He is only the Savior of those He actually saves. In order to be the Savior of all, He will save all. THE LIVING GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN . Such a fact should fill the hardest heart with joy and cause continual thanksgiving to God for His power, wisdom, love, grace and righteousness.

Knowing how difficult it would be for man to believe this plain statement, God offers man encouragement by assuring him that it is a FAITHFUL SAYING, and WORTHY OF ALL ACCEPTATION. It is faithful to God, faithful to His Son, faithful to His Work, and faithful to the desire of all who have had the love of God poured into their hearts by the Holy Spirit. It is hard to understand why so many should condemn it as unfaithful and worthy of all rejection, when God has so plainly declared it to be a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

Man's need for salvation is desperate. He is sinful, dying and helpless to save himself (Rom. 1:18-3:25). To save man and make out of him a creature unto His own praise will indeed glorify God and His son, Jesus Christ.


I. HOW WILL GOD SAVE ALL MANKIND?
Both the means and the manner whereby this Salvation is accomplished are clearly revealed in the Scriptures. "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man CHRIST JESUS; WHO GAVE HIMSELF A RANSOM FOR ALL, to be testified in due time" (1 Tim. 2:3-6). "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved" (Acts 4:12).

There is no salvation for anyone at any time except through Jesus Christ and His saving work. It is only through His death, burial, and resurrection life that all will be saved. There will be no failure here. He was manifested to put away sin and to destroy the works of the Devil (Heb. 9:26; 1 John 3:8). He will not stop until He has accomplished these ends.

In the light of the facts set forth in the Scriptures, how foolish the statement that if all are to be saved Jesus Christ need never have died. If He had not died for the sins of the world, no one could be saved. But since He has died and now lives again ALL WILL BE SAVED.


II. WHEN WILL GOD SAVE ALL?
The Scriptures make it very plain that all are not saved at the same time. "Who gave Himself a ransom for all; THE TESTIMONY IN ITS OWN TIMES" (1 Tim. 2:6, R.V.). "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. BUT EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER" (1 Cor. 15:22-24).

At the present time God is saving only those He has chosen and called unto the special salvation of the ages (1 Cor. 1:26-30; 1 Tim. 6:12). He will use these in various ways in bringing about the salvation of the rest (Eph. 3:8-12; 2:6-10). Note, please, the text says, "God is the Savior of all men SPECIALLY (not, EXCLUSIVELY) of them that believe." Because of this the Apostle Paul wrote, "Therefore I endure all things for the ELECT'S sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory" (literally, 'eonian' or 'age-lasting' glory, 2 Tim. 2:10). And again he wrote, "But we preach Christ crucified, unto Jews a stumbling-block, and unto Gentiles foolishness; but unto them that ARE CALLED, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" (1 Cor. 1:23, 24).

Election and predestination become most precious portions of God's truth once it is seen that the reason some are elected to a special salvation is that through them the rest may be reached. There is a special salvation for some and a general salvation f or the rest later on. Those who believe now will be made like Christ when He returns and will live and reign with Him during the coming eons or ages. They will be delivered from the Second Death.

The nonelect will be saved at the end of the ages solely as the result of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ in their behalf. Does this mean a second chance? By no means! Salvation is not a matter of chance, first or second. Had it bee n left to chance no one would have been saved, now or later (Rom. 3:10-12; 1:28-32). Salvation is of God! He assures us that He will save all.

Let no one think for a moment that there will not be judgment and condemnation. "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and unrighteousness of men" (Rom. 1:18). Those who are hard and impenitent of heart treasure up for themselves wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God Who will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. To them that are factious and obey not the truth but obey unrighteousness shall be wrath indignation, tribulation and anguish. See Rom. 2:1-16; Rev. 2:11-15; etc. All that the Scriptures ACTUALLY teach about the wrath of God will surely come to pass. The wrath of God is an awful thing and it is not our purpose to minimize it in the least. However too much condemnation and punishment is just as unrighteous as too little.


III. WHAT DOES THIS SALVATION INCLUDE?

The Justification and Making Righteous of All.
"So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One shall the many be made righteous" (Rom. 5:18-19).


The Reconciliation of All to God.
"For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in Him should all the fulness dwell; and through him to reconcile all things unto Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens" (Col. 1:19-20).

Reconciliation means the removal of all alienation and enmity, thus making peace.


The Vivification of All.
"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be MADE ALIVE. But each in his own ORDER; Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's at his coming; then the end [ORDER]. The last enemy that shall be abolished is death" (See 1 Cor. 15:20-26).

The making alive in this passage is more than resurrection alone. It is a making alive beyond the power and reach of death as will be seen from the experience of Christ the FIRSTFRUITS, and those who are Christ's at His coming. Resurrection may be only to mortality as in the case of Lazarus, etc. Making alive here is unto incorruption and immortality (1 Tim. 6:13-16; 1 Cor. 15:50-57).


The Subjection of All to God the Father.
"For, He put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted [none others] Who did subject all things unto Him. And when all things have been subjected unto Him, then shall THE SON ALSO HIMSELF BE SUBJECTED to Him that did subject all things unto Him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL" (1 Cor. 15:27-28; Phil. 2:9-11; Eph. 1:9-11, 19-23).

But someone protests, Will not believing that God is the Savior of all do away with evangelistic fervor and zeal? It did not affect the Apostle Paul in this manner. On the contrary it increased his fervor and zeal. "For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, Who is the Savior of all men" (1 Tim. 4:10; see also 2 Cor. 5:13-21). We must ever distinguish between the fact of the salvation of all and the manner in which God brings it to pass. He condescends to work through human instrumentality (Rom 10:11-15; 1 Cor. 1:21). Genuine believers will live and work unto this end continually. It is invigorating to know that complete success is assured ultimately.

Again someone may say, Yes, it does seen to be true but it is a dangerous doctrine and should not be taught. God says, "THESE THINGS COMMAND AND TEACH." Shall we obey God or man? Shall we seek God's pleasure or man's? Those who seek to please man are not slaves of Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:10). Shall we who know Him and have had our eyes opened to the glorious triumph of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ sit idly by and let reproach be heaped upon His name without protesting? Think how the teaching of end less punishment slanders God and Jesus Christ, for we know Christ died for all. Does God lack the goodness, the power, the love, the grace to save all? Every attribute of God is slandered by the unscriptural teaching of eternal punishment. God says punishment is age-lasting, man says everlasting. Let us believe God and not man.

--Joseph E. Kirk
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« on: November 07, 2009, 05:12:08 AM »

 
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Cally
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 06:05:34 AM »

Okay, look at that verse a little more closely.

"Jesus is the savior of all men" is a statement clarifying that he is the ONLY savior of all men. In other words, there is not some other savior of some other men some other way.

"especially of those who believe," Special for those who believe. Like "especially intended" for those who believe.

This language is clearly spoken into the human perspective, not the Godly (predestination) perspective. Because from our point of view we simply preach the gospel and be a light unto the world and see who bites, and even then, not especially assume that those who don't are the ones predestined for destruction (just look at what happened when Peter converted some of the people who had Christ crucified).

So "Savior of all" language is clearly meant to show that there is no other savior for anyone else. He is the singular source of salvation for all people--other people who don't follow Christ are not saved by some other means, Christ is the "savior of all". Those who accept salvation were ESPECIALLY intended for him.

The other thing you mention reminds of what happens in Hebrews. It's true, that before Christ there was not a full revelation of the way everything would work, but they INSTINCTIVELY understood (just as God was teaching them about the Son of Man throughout their history). In a nutshell God trained the Jews about Christianity so that the Jews would train (and be an example to) the rest of the world after they were taught. Those who died without perfect knowledge, as it says in Hebrews, will receive what is promised because of the completion of the body of Christ. Those who died in the training, so to speak, will be made complete with those who are blessed with full knowledge.
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 06:05:34 AM »

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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 12:02:10 PM »

Quote
Okay, look at that verse a little more closely.

"Jesus is the savior of all men" is a statement clarifying that he is the ONLY savior of all men. In other words, there is not some other savior of some other men some other way.

But where is the "ONLY" in this scripture?

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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 05:09:13 PM »

Jiggyfly do you know of another savior than Jesus? Does God's holy word teach of another beside Jesus?
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 05:16:48 PM »

Quote
Okay, look at that verse a little more closely.

"Jesus is the savior of all men" is a statement clarifying that he is the ONLY savior of all men. In other words, there is not some other savior of some other men some other way.

But where is the "ONLY" in this scripture?



Well the other thing this scripture was meant to show (and along with the ones comparing Jesus to Adam) was that Jesus' sacrifice is POWERFUL ENOUGH to save all men, and more than reverse the transgression that affected "all men".

As you know, it says "only" other places.
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 05:47:43 PM »

Instead of the words of man or scriptural gymnastics, lets go to the words of Jesus, Himself:

John 3

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 05:47:43 PM »

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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 06:11:43 PM »

He will save all of the some.
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 06:13:01 PM »

At this point, God doesn't save anyone.

It's your choice.
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 06:38:00 PM »

Jesus is the Savior of all men, but all men are not saved.
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 06:38:00 PM »

 
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 07:31:46 PM »

Jesus is the Savior of all men, but all men are not saved.

Exactly.

God will save everyone who accepts salvation. If that were everyone, then everyone would be saved.
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 07:31:46 PM »

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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2009, 07:48:43 PM »

Jesus is the Savior of all men, but all men are not saved.

Exactly.

God will save everyone who accepts salvation. If that were everyone, then everyone would be saved.

Universalists like to argue that everyone will be saved, sadly this is not the case.
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 08:49:49 PM »

Charles Sloan

 
Quote
Universalists like to argue that everyone will be saved, sadly this is not the case.

Oh how I wish it were true. Unfortunately it isn't.

I have read some Universalists who also believe that ultimately  satan will be among the redeemed.

GTM
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2009, 08:53:48 PM »

Charles Sloan

 
Quote
Universalists like to argue that everyone will be saved, sadly this is not the case.

Oh how I wish it were true. Unfortunately it isn't.

I have read some Universalists who also believe that ultimately  satan will be among the redeemed.

GTM

You have to do a lotta mental and scriptural gymnastics just to get past what Jesus says on the subject, let alone the rest of the New Testament in order to believe that all will be in heaven (universalism).
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2009, 08:53:48 PM »

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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2009, 09:01:33 PM »

Indeed, there was a guy on my message board doing Olympian gymnastics to try and prove universalism. Although everything ultimately centered on redefining the Greek word "aiōnios" to mean a period of time that will end or an age. Of course completely ignoring the context in which the word is used in, like describing God as "eternal", the Word as "everlasting", or even "eternal" life. In the end, ole Dave got banned.

Honestly, I got a headache reading his posts. I can't stand people who warp Scripture like that.   
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2009, 09:31:52 PM »

kind of like Mormons who espouse that Satan and Christ are brothers, and the biggest blessing for mankind was when Adam sinned.  Go figure.
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