author=4WD link=topic=105660.msg1055158842#msg1055158842 date=1584873456]
I am very disappointed. So far it seems no one actually addressed the point of the OP. GB reverted to his usual nonsense about the failed Levitical priesthood which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of works whether as Jesus spoke about works or as Paul spoke about works.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert
; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven
; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world
It has everything to do with the religion that existed in Jesus' time. Jesus is speaking to those who had been led astray by the failed priesthood you ignore.
In a nutshell, what we read in passages like John 6:26-29 is that Jesus tells us that we must work, i.e., we must do something, in order to obtain eternal life; while in passages like Ephesians 2:8-9 it seems that Paul tells us that no works, i.e., doing something, anything, will get us eternal life.
It seems you should maybe think about considering all of Paul's teaching, it might help clear this up.
Rom. 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good
, to the Jew
first, and also
to the Gentile
: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God
Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness
? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin
, but ye have obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness
Paul teaches everyone "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance".
The Blood is there, the Spirit is there, the Grace is there, His Word is there. We did nothing to make that happen. But we must "do" something with HIS Blood, His Spirit, His Grace, HIS Word, in order for it to benefit us. At least according to Jesus and Paul.
My question is who is right, Jesus or Paul? Or how can Jesus and Paul both be telling us the truth?
Paul is saying nothing different than Jesus. It's just that the religions of this land, like the religions of the land during their time, has corrupted their way.
Ignoring the religion that Jesus spent much of His Ministry rebuking, and Paul fought against in every epistle he wrote, does not seem wise. Remember, it was the so called Circumcision that killed Jesus in the first place, stoned Stephen to death, bewitched the Galatians, and rejected the Gentiles as without God and without hope in the world.
If our goal here is to discern truth of Paul's and Jesus' teaching, why would we ignore the teaching of the religion which led many of these same folks astray in the first place?
And what is the difference Spiritually between God giving Israel the Passover Lamb while they were still in Egypt (Which in my understanding symbolizes sin) and the Christ shedding His Blood for us while we were yet sinners?
And if HIS Blood represents HIS Grace, are we not to "DO" something with it? It seems the answer to this from both Paul and Jesus is the same. YES!!