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Born again......adults

Started by wincam, Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 05:24:20

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wincam

Born again as adults is a grave error and only a massive Protestant money making delusion and deception and an innovation and addition to true Christianity imho - the whole thrust re Jn. 3:3-5 is about being born again as little children simply believing and accepting which we are told elsewhere is simply simply very difficult is well nigh impossible for adults - little Catholic children are rightly baptised and confirmed as and whilst simply simply believing - wincam

LexKnight

Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

wincam

Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

Rella

Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 05:24:20
Born again as adults is a grave error

Then John 3:7 means nothing to you?

From King James

7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

From the Catholic online Bible

7 Do not be surprised when I say: You must be born from above.

Your beliefs are not at all surprising considering your Pope said

"Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful"
"And that a personal relationship with Jesus is wrong."

http://godfruits.tv/pope-says-personal-relationship-jesus-harmful/

That is the difference between you and me.

I am a proud card carrying BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN and I value my PERSONAL relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus who instructed me to be born again.

MeMyself

Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 05:24:20
Born again as adults is a grave error and only a massive Protestant money making delusion

Haha!  Protestant money making delusion!  We don't pay to be saved...that was done waaay back within the Catholic church.  It was called Indulgences.

Quote- little Catholic children are rightly baptised and confirmed as and whilst simply simply believing - wincam

Is it *their* belief, or is it done because the parents fear they will be lost and so *they* get them baptized and confirmed?

LexKnight

Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

Jd34

What does it mean to be " born again" ?  Maybe someone needs to  define that metaphor so to get on the same page. 

Jsta Babbler

#7
This Thread sounds just like Nicodemus
::frown::

John Ch.3
Jesus answered and said unto him,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
.
...
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him,
How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him,
Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

---- The Wise Man Saith -----
Song of Solomon 4:1
Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair;
thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks:
thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn,
which came up from the washing;
whereof every one bear twins,
and none is barren among them.


Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to his mercy he saved us,
by the washing of regeneration,
and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Eph.5:25
"..... even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church,
not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.



as The Wise Man Saith
Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair;
thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks:

2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn,
which came up from the washing;
whereof every one bear twins,
and none is barren among them.



Posters
Put away the "--- many books  ---" written by the Theolgians 

Dust off your Bible
Get yourself a good Hebrew and a Greek Dictionary
and get some real Learning in the School of Christ
lest ye be as Peter says
"which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
."
_________________________________________________________________

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,
and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever. Amen.

::eatingpopcorn:

MeMyself

Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 09:42:48
Posters
Put away the "--- many books  ---" written by the Theolgians 

Dust off your Bible
Get yourself a good Hebrew and a Greek Dictionary
and get some real Learning in the School of Christ
lest ye be as Peter says
"which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
."

What many books? No one is talking about books.  ::shrug::


winsome

 
Quote from: Rella on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:46:50

Your beliefs are not at all surprising considering your Pope said

"Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful"
"And that a personal relationship with Jesus is wrong."

http://godfruits.tv/pope-says-personal-relationship-jesus-harmful/

 

That is a blatant LIE!

Pope Francis did not say either of those things

You need to repent


mclees8

There are many ideas and confusion amongst Protestant and Catholics.  How is one born again of the spirit ?
If one does not truly understand a spiritual relationship with Christ and the Father it is virtually impossible to be Born again from above. To be Born again only comes when you meet with Christ in the prayer closet. If you never come to Him in private prayer then you cannot be born again. This is an absolute truth. Jesus said That God is spirit and one must worship as spirit.  To pray to an object is carnal it is idle worship. One can pray with a congregation, but if you do not have a daily relationship in your prayer closet you are not born again, only in your head. .

winsome

Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again. One can be born again of he spirit even before he is Baptized in water. Or he can be born again after. 

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

MeMyself

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

Nah, unh. (your turn)


haha. just kidding...sort of.  Winsome,  the act of baptism doesn't save unless the heart wants to be saved.  God will not force salvation on anyone. It is possible to "get wet" and yet, not be born again.  Being born again is about the heart wanting to be right with God.  That must come first.

mclees8

#15
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

Water baptism is a cleansing of one sins.  It does not establish a spiritual relationship with Christ . In the discourse in John three " innless one is born again of the spirit and of water which says they are separate events. How much time do you spend with Jesus in the prayer closet? If you do it often then you have established a spiritual relationship with Him in the spirit.  Born again of the spirit. If you do not spend time in a spiritual relationship with Christ then water baptism would be meaningless

LexKnight

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Winsome, that isn't how it works.You can't just sprinkle water on them, say a few words, and the child is automatically born from above. It requires an inner choice from them, repentance, and an infant simply does not have the cognitive abilities to do such. No need anyway, as an infant is innocent.

chosenone

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

verses?

chosenone

Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:47:17
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Winsome, that isn't how it works.You can't just sprinkle water on them, say a few words, and the child is automatically born from above. It requires an inner choice from them, repentance, and an infant simply does not have the cognitive abilities to do such. No need anyway, as an infant is innocent.

Amen. putting a few drops of water on a babies head makes no difference whatsoever.

mclees8

#19
Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:33:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

Nah, unh. (your turn)


haha. just kidding...sort of.  Winsome,  the act of baptism doesn't save unless the heart wants to be saved.  God will not force salvation on anyone. It is possible to "get wet" and yet, not be born again.  Being born again is about the heart wanting to be right with God.  That must come first.

Lex we are on the same page. True ones heart must want to be right, but it hen must become real by spending time with Christ in prayer and have a hunger for His word. This comes when the Holy spirit actually lives in us ever drawing us closer t the Lord

winsome

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:03:00
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:47:17
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Winsome, that isn't how it works.You can't just sprinkle water on them, say a few words, and the child is automatically born from above. It requires an inner choice from them, repentance, and an infant simply does not have the cognitive abilities to do such. No need anyway, as an infant is innocent.

Amen. putting a few drops of water on a babies head makes no difference whatsoever.

Of course it doesn't. But that is not baptism.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:38:19
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

Water baptism is a cleansing of one sins.  It does not establish a spiritual relationship with Christ . In the discourse in John three " innless one is born again of the spirit and of water which says they are separate events. How much time do you spend with Jesus in the prayer closet? If you do it often then you have established a spiritual relationship with Him in the spirit.  Born again of the spirit. If you do not spend time in a spiritual relationship with Christ then water baptism would be meaningless

They are not separate events.

They happen together. It is when we are baptised (in water) that the Holy Spirit regenerates us.
"..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Something here does not compute.  You say a baby sprinkled with water in the name of the Father the son and the Holy Ghost is not born again but if one who say later is sprinkled with water in the Father Son and Holy Ghost is born again.     ::pondering::

Jsta Babbler

#23
----Born Again ----

Job 28:1
Surely there is a vein for the silver,
and a place for gold where they fine it.

....
12 But where shall wisdom be found?
and where is the place of understanding?


God Asks Job
Job 39:1
Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?


Ps. 29:9
"The voice of the LORD maketh the hinds to calve,...."

Jn. 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth,
and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Rev. 12:2
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,
and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried,
travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
\

as God asked Job
Knowest thou  "the time" when the wild goats of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

___________________________________________________________


Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,
and to present you faultless
before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever. Amen.

::eatingpopcorn:

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:31:38
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Something here does not compute.  You say a baby sprinkled with water in the name of the Father the son and the Holy Ghost is not born again but if one who say later is sprinkled with water in the Father Son and Holy Ghost is born again.     ::pondering::

No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

MeMyself

Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:38:27
----Born Again ----

Job 28:1
Surely there is a vein for the silver,
and a place for gold where they fine it.

....
12 But where shall wisdom be found?
and where is the place of understanding?


God Asks Job
Job 39:1
Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?


Ps. 29:9
"The voice of the LORD maketh the hinds to calve,...."

Jn. 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth,
and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Rev. 12:2
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,
and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried,
travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
\

as God asked Job
Knowest thou  "the time" when the wild goats of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

___________________________________________________________


Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,
and to present you faultless
before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever. Amen.

::eatingpopcorn:

How do you find this to contribute to the thread, Babbler?

MeMyself

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:41:41
No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

Its the exact same thing, and you know it, Winsome. 

And, sadly, many *think* their children are saved due to an act *they* themselves had not a moment of input in, but they are wrong. We cannot save our children by following a ritual for them. *They* *must* come to God on their own.

Jsta Babbler

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:42:12
Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:38:27
----Born Again ----



as God asked Job
Knowest thou  "the time" when the "wild goats" of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

___________________________________________________________




How do you find this to contribute to the thread, Babbler?

OK;
Who are these Wild Goats spoken of by Job, God and David
plz. note:
these are  Wild Goats, Not in Bondage too nor the Servants of Man or Men




mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:13:04
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:38:19
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:13:26
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 10:06:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:56:13
Quote from: wincam on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:15:27
Quote from: LexKnight on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 07:14:28
Wait, so one being converted and born again as an adult... is a grave error?

there is a difference that makes all the difference between a Christian adult and a convert being born again as a Christian by water and the Spirit - btw it is noticeable that a Protestant does not have to be born again as a Christian on conversion to a Catholic nor vice versa it seems - wincam

And you would say an infant, once they get wet by water blessed by a priest, is born again?

No, but someone who is baptised in water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is "born again"

Water baptism of itself does not make one Born again.

Yes it does.

Water baptism is a cleansing of one sins.  It does not establish a spiritual relationship with Christ . In the discourse in John three " innless one is born again of the spirit and of water which says they are separate events. How much time do you spend with Jesus in the prayer closet? If you do it often then you have established a spiritual relationship with Him in the spirit.  Born again of the spirit. If you do not spend time in a spiritual relationship with Christ then water baptism would be meaningless

They are not separate events.

They happen together. It is when we are baptised (in water) that the Holy Spirit regenerates us.
"..he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." (Titus 3:5)

We mare not reading the same Bible,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
. Tit 3:5

Washing of regeneration comes when one first believes tha Jesus is Lord and repents in his sins in his heart heart.   Take the thief on the cross When was he regenerated?  You have Jesus locked up in a box of laws.

MeMyself

Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:50:21
Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:42:12
Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:38:27
----Born Again ----



as God asked Job
Knowest thou  "the time" when the "wild goats" of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

___________________________________________________________




How do you find this to contribute to the thread, Babbler?

OK;
Who are these Wild Goats spoken of by Job, God and David
plz. note:
these are  Wild Goats, Not in Bondage too nor the Servants of Man or Men

I think you might be posting on a different thread than you mean to.

Jsta Babbler

#30
Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:54:13
Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:50:21
Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:42:12
Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:38:27
----Born Again ----



as God asked Job
Knowest thou  "the time" when the "wild goats" of the rock bring forth ?
or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil?
or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

___________________________________________________________




How do you find this to contribute to the thread, Babbler?

OK;
Who are these Wild Goats spoken of by Job, God and David
plz. note:
these are  Wild Goats, Not in Bondage too nor the Servants of Man or Men

I think you might be posting on a different thread than you mean to.
No, we are discussing ".. You must be Born Again"

Matt.23:1
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

Christ asked Nicodemus
( one of the Tutors and Governors Paul speaks of in Gal. ch 4 )

Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
You  setting in the Seat of Moses as a Tutor and Governor of Isreal
and you know not these things
::doh::
???????

Christ had not began his ministery yet
the were no Apostles at that time
SO:::
Where was Nicodemus supposed to learn of this
--- Born Again Experience ----
this
".. You must be Born Again"

Ps. 29:9
"The voice of the LORD maketh the hinds to calve,...."


There ain't no Magic in the Water
___________________________________________________________________

::eatingpopcorn:

MeMyself

Quote from: Jsta Babbler on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 12:18:08
There ain't no Magic in the Water
___________________________________________________________________

*Finally* you make your point.  Thanks.

Rella

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 09:59:45
Quote from: Rella on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 08:46:50

Your beliefs are not at all surprising considering your Pope said

"Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful"
"And that a personal relationship with Jesus is wrong."

http://godfruits.tv/pope-says-personal-relationship-jesus-harmful/

 


That is a blatant LIE!

Pope Francis did not say either of those things

You need to repent



Then I suppose he also did not say

"Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."

http://www.wucnews.com/2014/07/pope-francis-warns-any-personal.html

And these following links are all wrong?

This from National Catholic Reporter... (The Francis Chronicles)

http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/church-essential-faith-there-are-no-free-agents-pope-says

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/pope-francis-says-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous/95078

http://www.plaintruth.com/the_plain_truth/2014/07/pope-francis-says-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-is-dangerous-and-absurd-without-the-church.html

None of these from any youtube source. I purposely left those out. As well as the blogs about this.

It is not I who needs to repent. He does.

winsome

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:43:50
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:41:41
No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

Its the exact same thing, and you know it, Winsome. 


It's not the same thing

MeMyself

Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 12:28:32
Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:43:50
Quote from: winsome on Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 11:41:41
No, I didn't say that.

I said that an infant, "once they get wet by water blessed by a priest", is not born again because that is not baptism. An infant who is baptised (in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) is born again.

Its the exact same thing, and you know it, Winsome. 


It's not the same thing

Unh, hunh.  Your turn...

Again, kidding sort of.  What Lex described is EXACTLY what you are advocating for and you know it.  NO ONE can save anyone else.  That is between them, as an individual and God.

I wish it weren't so. I wish I could jump through a hoop and my kids all be born again and walk with God, but that's not how it works.  I can lead them and teach them and pray for them, but THEY must come to Him on their own.

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