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Born again......adults

Started by wincam, Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 05:24:20

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LexKnight

Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

winsome

Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

LexKnight

Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

winsome

 
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

skeeter

Quote from: Ladonia on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 08:09:20
Quote from: skeeter on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 01:24:15
Revelation 21

2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.


very interesting - you think God needs to be humble?  you think He isn't deserving of the best of everything?  He who made it all?
No, not at all. I agree, God deserves the best, so that is why some of our church's are very beautiful and our clergy likewise wear beautiful robes. It's not to make us mere humans feel more important, but done for the glory of God.

These are some of the things that we orthodox believes do to emulate the Scriptures and is something that our friend Mclees simply cannot understand.
if you (the rcc/catholics) were doing something for God, you'd be believing in Him AND His word and proclaiming it to all.   Without glorious robes and buildings.

that money could be used to fund orphanages, feed the poor and even to pay for those Syrian refugees to stay safely in their own homeland etc.

nice try, but no one's going to believe that the Vatican palaces are for the glory of God and not certain men who falsely claim to serve Him.


skeeter

Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.
How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?
Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.
Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?
so?  that means our wealth (and for those in the RCC - wealth given by others) should be used for our own extravagant gain rather than for His service?

a - after His resurrection.  there will be another in the future.

c - falsehoods?  how about using the best knowledge he had back then to describe what he saw?
and who could see Him being His face was like 'the sun shining in full strength'?  that's blinding.

Ladonia

Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

Beautiful stained glass windows in a church help tell the message of salvation. You have a problem with beautiful buildings which are set aside for worship and I don't see anything unbiblical either. I hear the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was one beautiful building as well.

mclees8

#287
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for clothes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:28:54
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for cloes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.

Thank you for your personal and fallible opinion back up by not a single biblical reference.

mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:48:03
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:28:54
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for cloes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.

Thank you for your personal and fallible opinion back up by not a single biblical reference.

No biblical reference, Maybe you didn't read. If I have post scripture and  and verse then you must not be as knowledgeable of the scripture as you would like everyone to think. But as you say I will give you them. Have to leave for now but be soon.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:01:30
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:48:03
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:28:54
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for cloes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.

Thank you for your personal and fallible opinion back up by not a single biblical reference.

No biblical reference, Maybe you didn't read. If I have post scripture and  and verse then you must not be as knowledgeable of the scripture as you would like everyone to think. But as you say I will give you them. Have to leave for now but be soon.

Protestants demand scripture from Catholics. Why cannot you provide scripture?

The allusions to scripture that you give tend to be garbled as though vaguely remembered. At least if you had to find them you might get them right.

winsome

#291
mclees
Here is something for you to think about:

When the Jews returned from exile in Babylon they found Jerusalem and the Temple in ruins. They set about rebuilding Jerusalem and their homes but not the Temple.
God complained:
Haggai  Chapter 1
2 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
3 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet,
4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?

8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD.
 

The Lord punished them for not rebuilding his house.
9 Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house.

10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.

11 And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

They set to work.
14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of She-alti-el, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Chapter 2
6 Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land;
7 and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the LORD of hosts.
9 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the LORD of hosts.'"

When they had restored the glory of God's house he then blessed them
18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider:
19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Do the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree still yield nothing? From this day on I will bless you."

mclees8

#292
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:28:54
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.


Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?    Acts 7: 45-50


Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

CHAPTER 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Matt 24: 1,2



Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for clothes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.


But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?    Acts 7: 45-50

God instructed the Israelites to build a Tabernacle of the finest materials, gold, silver, bronze and fine materials (Ex 35:2-9) made by the best craftsmen (Ex 35:10-19) and then came and dwelt in it (Ex 40:34)

Then Solomon built a greater Temple (2Sam 6) and God promised Solomon he would dwell in that Temple (2Sam 5:11)

Then after the exile God commanded the rebuilding of the Temple and promised gold and silver for the building (see previous post).

So sort that contradiction out.[/quote]

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

Yes, I can do  big type also

And your point is?

mclees8

#295
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:21:43
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

Yes, I can do  big type also

And your point is?


[/
    I can write small to but this is the smallest font I have. I didn't want for the verse to quite that big but enough to make the exclamation.  My post is there and you asked for scripture back up and I gave it. Did you think I didn't know what the word says. The problem is do you know scripture enough to no I was scriptural.

    The scripture and the point I am making is not difficult and you know exactly what the point is. But you will dance and weasel in attempt to discredit it. And you can go right ahead because I know what the truth is and its stated.  School children could understand it.  So do your best. You know what denial is?

    Its like a man who comes to a solid rock wall and deny that its solid rock.  He can say what he wants to but its still a rock wall and he cannot pass through it
    size]

winsome

#296
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 11:57:03
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:21:43
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

Yes, I can do  big type also

And your point is?


[/

       
  • I can write small to but this is the smallest font I have. I didn't want for the verse to quite that big but enough to make the exclamation.  My post is there and you asked for scripture back up and I gave it. Did you think I didn't know what the word says. The problem is do you know scripture enough to no I was scriptural.

    The scripture and the point I am making is not difficult and you know exactly what the point is. But you will dance and weasel in attempt to discredit it. And you can go right ahead because I know what the truth is and its stated.  School children could understand it.  So do your best. You know what denial is?

    Its like a man who comes to a solid rock wall and deny that its solid rock.  He can say what he wants to but its still a rock wall and he cannot pass through it
    size]


Tell me what the point is. I can't read your mind. I can't see that the quote you gave relates to anything you said earlier and you didn't link it to anything. It stood alone from the rest of your reply.

Scripture is quoted to support an argument not to make weasly insinuations. If you are not making a weasly insinuation then come right out and say what you want to say and then back it up with scripture.

I'm getting fed up with you spewing out cr*p.

If you want random quotes then try this one
"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged" (Mt 7:1-2)



mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 12:10:55
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 11:57:03
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:21:43
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

Yes, I can do  big type also

And your point is?


[/

       
  • I can write small to but this is the smallest font I have. I didn't want for the verse to quite that big but enough to make the exclamation.  My post is there and you asked for scripture back up and I gave it. Did you think I didn't know what the word says. The problem is do you know scripture enough to no I was scriptural.

    The scripture and the point I am making is not difficult and you know exactly what the point is. But you will dance and weasel in attempt to discredit it. And you can go right ahead because I know what the truth is and its stated.  School children could understand it.  So do your best. You know what denial is?

    Its like a man who comes to a solid rock wall and deny that its solid rock.  He can say what he wants to but its still a rock wall and he cannot pass through it
    size]


Tell me what the point is. I can't read your mind. I can't see that the quote you gave relates to anything you said earlier and you didn't link it to anything. It stood alone from the rest of your reply.

Scripture is quoted to support an argument not to make weasly insinuations. If you are not making a weasly insinuation then come right out and say what you want to say and then back it up with scripture.

I'm getting fed up with you spewing out cr*p.

If you want random quotes then try this one
"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged" (Mt 7:1-2)


Im sorry that it seemed like I was judging or sounding like a smarty. One of my many failings. I must pray about that.  It does seem that you are getting a little edgy. You are not really wanting  to say Im wrong and you can show me. You are leaning on this idea that I am not making the point but truly the point is right there.  Your hierarchy is all show business but the apostle were humble not wanting to exalt themselves and call attention to tiles and pride of their position. I think that is pretty plain and the scriptures used make the point

Perhaps you should make your point  and be scriptural.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 12:54:17
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 12:10:55
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 11:57:03
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:21:43
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

Yes, I can do  big type also

And your point is?


[/

       
  • I can write small to but this is the smallest font I have. I didn't want for the verse to quite that big but enough to make the exclamation.  My post is there and you asked for scripture back up and I gave it. Did you think I didn't know what the word says. The problem is do you know scripture enough to no I was scriptural.

    The scripture and the point I am making is not difficult and you know exactly what the point is. But you will dance and weasel in attempt to discredit it. And you can go right ahead because I know what the truth is and its stated.  School children could understand it.  So do your best. You know what denial is?

    Its like a man who comes to a solid rock wall and deny that its solid rock.  He can say what he wants to but its still a rock wall and he cannot pass through it
    size]


Tell me what the point is. I can't read your mind. I can't see that the quote you gave relates to anything you said earlier and you didn't link it to anything. It stood alone from the rest of your reply.

Scripture is quoted to support an argument not to make weasly insinuations. If you are not making a weasly insinuation then come right out and say what you want to say and then back it up with scripture.

I'm getting fed up with you spewing out cr*p.

If you want random quotes then try this one
"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged" (Mt 7:1-2)


Im sorry that it seemed like I was judging or sounding like a smarty. One of my many failings. I must pray about that.  It does seem that you are getting a little edgy. You are not really wanting  to say Im wrong and you can show me. You are leaning on this idea that I am not making the point but truly the point is right there.  Your hierarchy is all show business but the apostle were humble not wanting to exalt themselves and call attention to tiles and pride of their position. I think that is pretty plain and the scriptures used make the point

Perhaps you should make your point  and be scriptural.

See blue bit.

That's your opinion - your judgment. It's not a fact as you seem to think.

On what basis do you make that judgement?

I know many priests and none of them are 'all show business' and 'pride of their position'. They are hard working servants of God.

I have also met several bishops and none of them are 'all show business' and 'pride of their position'. They too are hard working servants of God.

You judge from ignorance.

Ladonia

Thankfully there is really no need to argue things such as this. All we need to do is go to the Church as the Scriptures say to do and we will get the correct answer. In this case, beautiful houses of worship and beautiful garments for the clergy have been deemed just fine - both have been bound here on earth and thus are bound in in heaven. End of story.

mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:18:39
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:01:30
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:48:03
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:28:54
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for cloes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.

Thank you for your personal and fallible opinion back up by not a single biblical reference.

No biblical reference, Maybe you didn't read. If I have post scripture and  and verse then you must not be as knowledgeable of the scripture as you would like everyone to think. But as you say I will give you them. Have to leave for now but be soon.

Protestants demand scripture from Catholics. Why cannot you provide scripture?

The allusions to scripture that you give tend to be garbled as though vaguely remembered. At least if you had to find them you might get them right.


Not to be smart or disrespectful but if any one is vague here it is you. Is that the best argument you have? 

LexKnight

McLees, is there really a point in continuing this? Winsome's mind is very clearly set.

mclees8

Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 13:08:48
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 12:54:17
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 12:10:55
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 11:57:03
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:21:43
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mt 23: 5-12

Yes, I can do  big type also

And your point is?


[/

       
  • I can write small to but this is the smallest font I have. I didn't want for the verse to quite that big but enough to make the exclamation.  My post is there and you asked for scripture back up and I gave it. Did you think I didn't know what the word says. The problem is do you know scripture enough to no I was scriptural.

    The scripture and the point I am making is not difficult and you know exactly what the point is. But you will dance and weasel in attempt to discredit it. And you can go right ahead because I know what the truth is and its stated.  School children could understand it.  So do your best. You know what denial is?

    Its like a man who comes to a solid rock wall and deny that its solid rock.  He can say what he wants to but its still a rock wall and he cannot pass through it
    size]


Tell me what the point is. I can't read your mind. I can't see that the quote you gave relates to anything you said earlier and you didn't link it to anything. It stood alone from the rest of your reply.

Scripture is quoted to support an argument not to make weasly insinuations. If you are not making a weasly insinuation then come right out and say what you want to say and then back it up with scripture.

I'm getting fed up with you spewing out cr*p.

If you want random quotes then try this one
"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged" (Mt 7:1-2)


Im sorry that it seemed like I was judging or sounding like a smarty. One of my many failings. I must pray about that.  It does seem that you are getting a little edgy. You are not really wanting  to say Im wrong and you can show me. You are leaning on this idea that I am not making the point but truly the point is right there.  Your hierarchy is all show business but the apostle were humble not wanting to exalt themselves and call attention to tiles and pride of their position. I think that is pretty plain and the scriptures used make the point

Perhaps you should make your point  and be scriptural.

See blue bit.

That's your opinion - your judgment. It's not a fact as you seem to think.

On what basis do you make that judgement?

I know many priests and none of them are 'all show business' and 'pride of their position'. They are hard working servants of God.

I have also met several bishops and none of them are 'all show business' and 'pride of their position'. They too are hard working servants of God.

You judge from ignorance.

You will have to excuse me until to tomorrow as am weary of very weak arguments. But be assured I will be baack.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 16:46:02

Not to be smart or disrespectful but if any one is vague here it is you. Is that the best argument you have?

Best argument against what?

I'm just pointing out you have no arguments just unsubstantiated personal opinions.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 21:44:54

You will have to excuse me until to tomorrow as am weary of very weak arguments. But be assured I will be baack.

I hope your response will include addressing post #289

mclees8

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:01:30
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:48:03
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 07:28:54
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 11:44:11
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:36:46
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:28:47
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:08:09
Quote from: winsome on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 10:04:15
Quote from: LexKnight on Sun Mar 06, 2016 - 09:52:33
But Ladonia, the prophets revealed even the Lord, before His resurrection, had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him. The beautifying of your assemblies is antithetical to the testimony of the Lord.

How does that nullify Rev 21-2 & Rev 21: 18 - 20?

Then read Rev 1:12-16
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

No beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him?

Revelation 21-22 is after the resurrection, but both Revelation 21-22 and Revelation 1 are visions, parables meant to portray a spiritual truth.

Both are after the resurrection

a) Are we not living after the resurrection?

b) What spiritual truths are they portraying?

c) Is it normal to use falsehoods in visions to portray spiritual truths?

No, because He has not come yet, nor has His Saints been resurrected.

OK, so we are referring to different resurrections.

Rev 1 is after Jesus' resurrection. So how does your comment that he "had no beauty or appearance that would attract people to Him" relate to that? I would say none at all.

If, after His resurrection, Jesus is finely dressed in a white robe with a golden sash, eyes flames of fire etc, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies?

And even if the New Jerusalem is after the general resurrection, how is that antithetical to the beautifying of our assemblies now?

In Rev 4 – before the general resurrection – John sees in heaven a throne, and "round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads." There were also harps and golden bowls full of incense.

Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

Jesus and the disciples were In Jerusalem walking past the Temple and one said master see the temple how beautiful it is. Jesus said then to them I tell you the truth there will not be one stone left on it. Do you think God is impressed with the Vatican? I tell you also a truth, the Vatican will be a ruins.

Another truth that not one earthy flashy carnal religious thing will please Him but only men.
You spoke of Revelation and the elders in white robes. May I remind you that this is a vision and not earthly but heavenly. The church was to be humble upon the earth and not a parade of flashy religious robes surrounded by grandeur  The white robes are of spiritual portrayal.  Listen to me, a beggar in dirty rags for cloes  will be wearing the white robe before you ever will.

Thank you for your personal and fallible opinion back up by not a single biblical reference.

No biblical reference, Maybe you didn't read. If I have post scripture and  and verse then you must not be as knowledgeable of the scripture as you would like everyone to think. But as you say I will give you them. Have to leave for now but be soon.


Im so glad your reminded me. Things just moved along to fast to address. But is one I want address very much. Im still doing things but I will post this morning. Again thank you. The response may be a little longer but I will be as brief as possible

mclees8

#306
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:45:06
mclees
Here is something for you to think about:

When the Jews returned from exile in Babylon they found Jerusalem and the Temple in ruins. They set about rebuilding Jerusalem and their homes but not the Temple.
God complained:
Haggai  Chapter 1
2 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
3 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet,
4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?

8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD.
 

The Lord punished them for not rebuilding his house.
9 Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house.

10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.

11 And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

They set to work.
14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of She-alti-el, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Chapter 2
6 Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land;
7 and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the LORD of hosts.
9 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the LORD of hosts.'"

When they had restored the glory of God's house he then blessed them
18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider:
19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Do the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree still yield nothing? From this day on I will bless you."



It is like you and your church and fellow Catholics to reach back to the old Testament to justify these things in the knew. In the Old Testament God delt with the Jews as His covenant people as the nation of Irael. They were to have respect for Gods Temple built with hands and so adorned. They were to have respect of His law and statutes Did not God always restore blessings when they repenedt and do his will.
Today and ever since Christ suffered and shed His bood to establish a brand New Covenant, Not out of respect for things we do and build with our hands. The Temple Vail was rent into by God so that we canLove and do his will because of His grace. We are now As priest and kings able to enter the throne of God in the spirit where we see Christ and find healing for our infirmities. You should not have to call for scripture and verse to know what scripture I am referring to. Heb 4:15,16 It is now that we do not see Temples built with hands but built in the Temple of ones heart. And we must maintain it daily to not neglect it for worldly appeasements. Jesus is coming back for a church without spot or wrinkle. A bride who has prepared and kept their garments clean and white. Paul said know ye not ye are the Temple and the  spirit God dwells within you.
Today as always we have classes of people The Rich class who adorne themselves in finery. We have the middle class who live and adorn themselves well but not as the rich. And then there is the poor class who were hand me down clothes and live in lowly dwellings.
Who of the people does the Lord show respect and favor? Does he look upon the outward things or How well one has kept His heart for Christ and adhere evil.
The old Testament with its temple the People left in ill repair is likened to one who receives the grand gift of eternal life and salvation but neglected to maintain it so as to be able to receive the Lord on His return, Like the ten virgins that five failed to keep their lamps full, and there were the five ready and waiting. The lord opened unto them and they went in and the door was shut. The five foolish who did not keep the lams clean and full said Lord upon unto us and the Lord then said I don't know you. 

I tell you right now it takes more than Sunday worship to enter Gods Kingdom. It will take more than grand cathedrals with bishops and popes in fancy religious garb to enter in.  How will he find the Temple that he established in your heart?


skeeter

Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:20:02
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?    Acts 7: 45-50
God instructed the Israelites to build a Tabernacle of the finest materials, gold, silver, bronze and fine materials (Ex 35:2-9) made by the best craftsmen (Ex 35:10-19) and then came and dwelt in it (Ex 40:34)

Then Solomon built a greater Temple (2Sam 6) and God promised Solomon he would dwell in that Temple (2Sam 5:11)

Then after the exile God commanded the rebuilding of the Temple and promised gold and silver for the building (see previous post).

So sort that contradiction out.
are you likening commands from God to those of the RCC / builders?

skeeter

Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:45:06
mclees
Here is something for you to think about:

When the Jews returned from exile in Babylon they found Jerusalem and the Temple in ruins. They set about rebuilding Jerusalem and their homes but not the Temple.
God complained:
Haggai  Chapter 1
2 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
3 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet,
4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?

8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD.
 

The Lord punished them for not rebuilding his house.
9 Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house.

10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.

11 And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

They set to work.
14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of She-alti-el, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Chapter 2
6 Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land;
7 and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the LORD of hosts.
9 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the LORD of hosts.'"

When they had restored the glory of God's house he then blessed them
18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider:
19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Do the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree still yield nothing? From this day on I will bless you."

and the moral of the story is - they were busy doing their own worldly thing (what they wanted), what was important to them, not what was important to God.

they were doing their earthly busy work, not the work of God.  Just like so many today - making money, buying a newer bigger house, car, boat, trips etc - instead of seeking HIS kingdom by doing HIS work.  His work is what is important, not the worldly things that man occupies his time doing.

winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:21:39
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:45:06
mclees
Here is something for you to think about:

When the Jews returned from exile in Babylon they found Jerusalem and the Temple in ruins. They set about rebuilding Jerusalem and their homes but not the Temple.
God complained:
Haggai  Chapter 1
2 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
3 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet,
4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?

8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD.
 

The Lord punished them for not rebuilding his house.
9 Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house.

10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.

11 And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

They set to work.
14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of She-alti-el, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Chapter 2
6 Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land;
7 and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the LORD of hosts.
9 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the LORD of hosts.'"

When they had restored the glory of God's house he then blessed them
18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider:
19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Do the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree still yield nothing? From this day on I will bless you."

It is like you and your church and fellow Catholics to reach back to the old Testament to justify these things in the knew.

Are you wanting to discard the Old Testament as irrelevant?

May I remind you that Paul wrote:
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (3Tim 3:16)

ALL scripture not just the bits that don't contradict your opinions.

And may I also remind you that both Ladonia and I drew on the New Testament – Revelation. But you wanted to discard that as just a vision. You seem to be very selective in which books of the Bible you accept from Catholics.

"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' (Lk 7:33-34)

Or in this case "I quoted the OT and you say 'it's too old'. I quoted the NT and you say 'it's too new'"

You  referenced Hebrews so perhaps you will accept that.

Hebrews says the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary (Heb 9:1). The writer also says that this earthly sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly sanctuary (Heb 9:23-24). Indeed we find in the heavenly sanctuary described by St. John in Revelation many things that were also present in the sacrificial worship of the first covenant:

- a victim (Rev 5:6&12)
- a robed high priest (Rev 1:13)
- other priests (Rev 4:4, etc.)
- an altar (Rev 6:9 etc.)
- lampstands (Rev 1:12 etc.)
- incense (Rev 5:8 & 8:3-5)

These can also be found in the earthly worship of the Mass, when we partake in the heavenly worship.

In addition many other elements of the heavenly liturgy in Revelation are also found in the Mass.:
- antiphonal chants (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14, 7:10-12)
- book or scroll (Rev 5:1)
- consecrated celibacy (Rev 14:4)
- intercessory prayer (Rev 5:8, 8:3-4)

Here are a few questions:
When did Jesus condemn clerical dress?
When did Jesus condemn priests for wearing robes?
When did Jesus condemn beauty in the Temple?

The answer to each question is that he didn't. And you have no cause to either.

winsome

Quote from: skeeter on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 16:16:44
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:20:02
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?    Acts 7: 45-50
God instructed the Israelites to build a Tabernacle of the finest materials, gold, silver, bronze and fine materials (Ex 35:2-9) made by the best craftsmen (Ex 35:10-19) and then came and dwelt in it (Ex 40:34)

Then Solomon built a greater Temple (2Sam 6) and God promised Solomon he would dwell in that Temple (2Sam 5:11)

Then after the exile God commanded the rebuilding of the Temple and promised gold and silver for the building (see previous post).

So sort that contradiction out.
are you likening commands from God to those of the RCC / builders?

God expects, demands, that we give him of our best. From the sacrifice of Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, the sacrifices in the Temple he expects the best and he is displeased with less (see Malachi 1:6-14)

In the desert he commanded the best craftsmen, the finest materials, gold and silver. Similarly with Solomon's Temple. And God was pleased with what Solomon had done and said to Solomon "I have consecrated this house which you have built, and put my name there for ever; my eyes and my heart will be there for all time." (1Kg 9:3)

skeeter

Quote from: winsome on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 06:09:13
Quote from: skeeter on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 16:16:44
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:20:02
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?    Acts 7: 45-50
God instructed the Israelites to build a Tabernacle of the finest materials, gold, silver, bronze and fine materials (Ex 35:2-9) made by the best craftsmen (Ex 35:10-19) and then came and dwelt in it (Ex 40:34)

Then Solomon built a greater Temple (2Sam 6) and God promised Solomon he would dwell in that Temple (2Sam 5:11)

Then after the exile God commanded the rebuilding of the Temple and promised gold and silver for the building (see previous post).

So sort that contradiction out.
are you likening commands from God to those of the RCC / builders?
God expects, demands, that we give him of our best. From the sacrifice of Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, the sacrifices in the Temple he expects the best and he is displeased with less (see Malachi 1:6-14)

In the desert he commanded the best craftsmen, the finest materials, gold and silver. Similarly with Solomon's Temple. And God was pleased with what Solomon had done and said to Solomon "I have consecrated this house which you have built, and put my name there for ever; my eyes and my heart will be there for all time." (1Kg 9:3)
yes, those were commands of God at that time.  why do you suddenly think it's so all fired important? because you 're using it to support the extravagance of the RCC?
did God appear to your popes and tell them to take money from the poor people to build the Vatican? buy steaks for the priests to eat while people all around  us starve?

you've got your priorities all messed up.  and suddenly you're all behind what God says - gotta love that!

Ladonia

Quote from: skeeter on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 06:31:31
Quote from: winsome on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 06:09:13
Quote from: skeeter on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 16:16:44
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 10:20:02
Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 09:34:50
Now think about this.   Steven before he was stoned convicted the Jewish hierarchy of killing the Messiah, and in his discourse he mentioned the great temple saying the earth is Gods footstool, what building could build for Him.

45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things?    Acts 7: 45-50
God instructed the Israelites to build a Tabernacle of the finest materials, gold, silver, bronze and fine materials (Ex 35:2-9) made by the best craftsmen (Ex 35:10-19) and then came and dwelt in it (Ex 40:34)

Then Solomon built a greater Temple (2Sam 6) and God promised Solomon he would dwell in that Temple (2Sam 5:11)

Then after the exile God commanded the rebuilding of the Temple and promised gold and silver for the building (see previous post).

So sort that contradiction out.
are you likening commands from God to those of the RCC / builders?
God expects, demands, that we give him of our best. From the sacrifice of Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, the sacrifices in the Temple he expects the best and he is displeased with less (see Malachi 1:6-14)

In the desert he commanded the best craftsmen, the finest materials, gold and silver. Similarly with Solomon's Temple. And God was pleased with what Solomon had done and said to Solomon "I have consecrated this house which you have built, and put my name there for ever; my eyes and my heart will be there for all time." (1Kg 9:3)
yes, those were commands of God at that time.  why do you suddenly think it's so all fired important? because you 're using it to support the extravagance of the RCC?
did God appear to your popes and tell them to take money from the poor people to build the Vatican? buy steaks for the priests to eat while people all around  us starve?

you've got your priorities all messed up.  and suddenly you're all behind what God says - gotta love that!

The Catholic Church has no apologies to make as regards charitable giving and helping the poor. It is estimated that 25% of all AIDS victims worldwide are helped by the RCC. Before there was any government help on the healthcare front in this country, it was the Catholic Church that built and maintained many of the hospitals too. Many Catholic religious orders of today exist solely to help the poor, among them are the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal located in the South Bronx  and of course Mother Theresa's group - and there others also, too many to mention here.

So tell me, when will you be leaving YOUR extravagant lifestyle of a comfortable home, selling all your earthly possessions, giving the resulting money away to the poor and dedicating the rest of your life to helping the unfortunate among us? Please keep me appraised of what you are doing in the future, so I can include you and your new endeavors as part of my charitable giving.

mclees8

#313
Quote from: winsome on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 04:25:55
Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:21:39
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:45:06
mclees
Here is something for you to think about:

When the Jews returned from exile in Babylon they found Jerusalem and the Temple in ruins. They set about rebuilding Jerusalem and their homes but not the Temple.
God complained:
Haggai  Chapter 1
2 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
3 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet,
4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?

8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD.
 

The Lord punished them for not rebuilding his house.
9 Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house.

10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.

11 And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

They set to work.
14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of She-alti-el, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Chapter 2
6 Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land;
7 and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the LORD of hosts.
9 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the LORD of hosts.'"

When they had restored the glory of God's house he then blessed them
18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider:
19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Do the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree still yield nothing? From this day on I will bless you."

It is like you and your church and fellow Catholics to reach back to the old Testament to justify these things in the knew.

Are you wanting to discard the Old Testament as irrelevant?

May I remind you that Paul wrote:
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (3Tim 3:16)

ALL scripture not just the bits that don't contradict your opinions.

And may I also remind you that both Ladonia and I drew on the New Testament – Revelation. But you wanted to discard that as just a vision. You seem to be very selective in which books of the Bible you accept from Catholics.

"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' (Lk 7:33-34)

Or in this case "I quoted the OT and you say 'it's too old'. I quoted the NT and you say 'it's too new'"

You  referenced Hebrews so perhaps you will accept that.

Hebrews says the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary (Heb 9:1). The writer also says that this earthly sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly sanctuary (Heb 9:23-24). Indeed we find in the heavenly sanctuary described by St. John in Revelation many things that were also present in the sacrificial worship of the first covenant:

- a victim (Rev 5:6&12)
- a robed high priest (Rev 1:13)
- other priests (Rev 4:4, etc.)
- an altar (Rev 6:9 etc.)
- lampstands (Rev 1:12 etc.)
- incense (Rev 5:8 & 8:3-5)

These can also be found in the earthly worship of the Mass, when we partake in the heavenly worship.

In addition many other elements of the heavenly liturgy in Revelation are also found in the Mass.:
- antiphonal chants (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14, 7:10-12)
- book or scroll (Rev 5:1)
- consecrated celibacy (Rev 14:4)
- intercessory prayer (Rev 5:8, 8:3-4)

Here are a few questions:
When did Jesus condemn clerical dress?
When did Jesus condemn priests for wearing robes?
When did Jesus condemn beauty in the Temple?

The answer to each question is that he didn't. And you have no cause to either.

Your give many questions to temp and trap me in error and diminish the truth. I speek of.
Moses authority was when certain ones challenged Moses position  I will pray to the Lord about these things. The next day the challengers and their families  were all swallowed up. not Buy Moses by  the Lord Himself

I will go now and   pray that the Lord gives me the answers so that His truth cannot be used as convenience to alter truth and bring confusion about the truth . You have not even acknowledge truth about the difference about the Old and knew Testament covenants. in my post.  You have not even acknowledged the Holy Spirit  who leads us to all truth.   Be back soon.


winsome

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 10:49:09
Quote from: winsome on Wed Mar 09, 2016 - 04:25:55
Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 - 09:21:39
Quote from: winsome on Mon Mar 07, 2016 - 08:45:06
mclees
Here is something for you to think about:

When the Jews returned from exile in Babylon they found Jerusalem and the Temple in ruins. They set about rebuilding Jerusalem and their homes but not the Temple.
God complained:
Haggai  Chapter 1
2 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
3 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet,
4 "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?

8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD.
 

The Lord punished them for not rebuilding his house.
9 Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house.

10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.

11 And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

They set to work.
14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of She-alti-el, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,

Chapter 2
6 Once again, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land;
7 and I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with splendor, says the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the LORD of hosts.
9 The latter splendor of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts; and in this place I will give prosperity, says the LORD of hosts.'"

When they had restored the glory of God's house he then blessed them
18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the LORD's temple was laid, consider:
19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Do the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree still yield nothing? From this day on I will bless you."

It is like you and your church and fellow Catholics to reach back to the old Testament to justify these things in the knew.

Are you wanting to discard the Old Testament as irrelevant?

May I remind you that Paul wrote:
All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (3Tim 3:16)

ALL scripture not just the bits that don't contradict your opinions.

And may I also remind you that both Ladonia and I drew on the New Testament – Revelation. But you wanted to discard that as just a vision. You seem to be very selective in which books of the Bible you accept from Catholics.

"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, 'Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' (Lk 7:33-34)

Or in this case "I quoted the OT and you say 'it's too old'. I quoted the NT and you say 'it's too new'"

You  referenced Hebrews so perhaps you will accept that.

Hebrews says the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary (Heb 9:1). The writer also says that this earthly sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly sanctuary (Heb 9:23-24). Indeed we find in the heavenly sanctuary described by St. John in Revelation many things that were also present in the sacrificial worship of the first covenant:

- a victim (Rev 5:6&12)
- a robed high priest (Rev 1:13)
- other priests (Rev 4:4, etc.)
- an altar (Rev 6:9 etc.)
- lampstands (Rev 1:12 etc.)
- incense (Rev 5:8 & 8:3-5)

These can also be found in the earthly worship of the Mass, when we partake in the heavenly worship.

In addition many other elements of the heavenly liturgy in Revelation are also found in the Mass.:
- antiphonal chants (Rev 4:8-11, 5:9-14, 7:10-12)
- book or scroll (Rev 5:1)
- consecrated celibacy (Rev 14:4)
- intercessory prayer (Rev 5:8, 8:3-4)

Here are a few questions:
When did Jesus condemn clerical dress?
When did Jesus condemn priests for wearing robes?
When did Jesus condemn beauty in the Temple?

The answer to each question is that he didn't. And you have no cause to either.

Your give many questions to temp and trap me in error and diminish the truth. I speek of.
Moses authority was when certain ones challenged Moses position  I will pray to the Lord about these things. The next day the challengers and their families  were all swallowed up. not Buy Moses by  the Lord Himself

I will go now and   pray that the Lord gives me the answers so that His truth cannot be used as convenience to alter truth and bring confusion about the truth . You have not even acknowledge truth about the difference about the Old and knew Testament covenants. in my post.  You have not even acknowledged the Holy Spirit  who leads us to all truth.   Be back soon.


I posed three questions, which I answered myself, to make a point to you. You cannot answer them in the affirmative because Jesus made no such condemnations.

You seem to be avoiding and direct replies to what I post. Why is that?

I have given you a scriptural case for buildings and vestments that give glory to God but you give no answer.

As to the Old and New Covenants. I do not deny there are some changes but not the total discontinuity that you seem to think.

Christianity is rooted in Judaism. As Paul said,
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you." (Rom 11:17-18)

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