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Hell's Daily Tally

Started by NyawehNyoh, Mon Sep 03, 2018 - 20:55:16

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NyawehNyoh

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1Cor 4:4 . . My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent.

During former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's assassination back in 2011, he was overheard to complain: Why are you doing this? I've done nothing wrong.

Former US President Richard Nixion once stated-- in so many words --that when a President breaks the law, it's not a crime.

Those two men serve to demonstrate just how unreliable the human conscience can be at times.

Man was created with as near a perfect conscience as a creature can be given.

Gen 1:27 . . God created Man in His own image, in the image of God created He him.

But then came the forbidden fruit incident by which Man's near-divine conscience underwent something that caused it to become humanistic.

Gen 3:22 . . The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

Man was able to discern between good and evil before his fall, but that was by means of a conscience influenced by its maker. The forbidden fruit incident altered Man's conscience to become his own influence, i.e. Man became defensive, and he rationalizes a lot too. (Rom 2:14-15)

I think the writer of 1Cor 4:4 was well aware of just how tricky Man's conscience can be so he was reluctant to insist upon his innocence-- a little sophistry here and a little there, and even monsters like Communist China's Xi Jinping and North Korea's Kim Jong-Un can be persuaded in their own minds to believe themselves okay guys.

Jer 17:9-10 . .The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it? . . . I, The Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds.

The upside is: Christ's crucifixion not only serves to save people from their sins, but according to Heb 9:8-14 his death saves them from their conscience too.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,560 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 95,018,040 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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One of my favorite lines from the movie "Titanic" is when Mr. Ismay protests that the ship can't sink; and Mr. Andrews responds: She's made of iron, sir! I assure you, she can... and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.

There are folks at large all across the internet, and around the globe, sincerely believing that Hell isn't a place of perpetual conscious suffering. They, like Mr. Ismay, will be utterly stunned and bewildered beyond comprehension to discover it's exactly that.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,567 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 95,444,403 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Folks react to misfortune in a sort of four-step process. The first is usually disbelief, followed by anger, then despair, and finally adjustment.

In the movie "Shawshank Redemption" a man is given two life sentences for murders he didn't commit. At first he feels very strongly that the truth will come out that he's innocent and doesn't belong in prison: he expects to eventually be exonerated and set free.

Well, one of the old-timers cautioned him about that with the advice: "Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. It's no use on the inside. You'd better get used to that idea."

I'd imagine that most new arrivals in Hell go thru the four-step process and at first hope against hope that it isn't permanent. It probably takes quite a while for them to get used to the idea that it is what it is, i.e. they're never getting out.

Were Hell a normal penal colony like San Quentin or Riker's Island; then I think most folks would eventually settle down and accept it as a way of life. But the element of fire makes adjustment very difficult. If only there was at least some water to help folks beat the heat, that would be very helpful. And maybe recreation and/or something to occupy their minds like reading, writing, art, and construction projects. I really don't know how people keep from running mad with insanity from mental atrophy down there.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,574 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 95,870,766 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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In Jesus' case, mortality/immortality pertained only to his body rather than to both his body and himself. Were that not so, then Jesus would've ceased to exist when he expired on the cross, and in order to restore his corpse to life; it would've been necessary to first return the man himself to existence.

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that human life is entirely physical which, for them, isn't exactly true. They hold to something called "life force" which enables the core of one's being to exist. The life force is versatile. It can be taken from a spirit body, transferred to a human body, and then transferred back again to the spirit body from whence it came.

The JW life force suggests an interesting possibility. Supposing when folks are terminated in the lake of fire per Rev 20:11-15, their life force survives to be transferred to a spirit body; enabling them to be perfectly suited to join the Devil and his angels per Matt 25:41, thus keeping the lost in existence for as long as God deems necessary to accomplish retribution for their works per Rev 20:12.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,581 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 96,297,129 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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1Tim 6:7 . .We brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

Christians walk a strange path. On the one hand they have to be ready to leave this life on a moment's notice, while on the other hand ready for a long stay, i.e. live like there's no tomorrow, and yet live like there are years to come.

Those two dissimilar expectations balance each other so that we don't live to extremes in either direction: always keeping in mind that as we came into this world empty-handed we will leave it empty-handed. So everyone should be prepared to suffer the loss of every cherished personal item in their possession that they hold dear; along with every project and every endeavor.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,586 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 96,601,674 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

DaveW

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Sun Jan 01, 2023 - 11:58:47
.In Jesus' case, mortality/immortality pertained only to his body rather than to both his body and himself.
Be careful how you say that.  It is bordering on gnosticism.  Making too much distinction between "self" and "body" is unbiblical.

NyawehNyoh

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FAQ: Do people in Hell have immortality?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Do people in Hell have eternal life?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: If so that people in Hell have neither immortality nor eternal life, then how can it be possible their conscious suffering is perpetual?

REPLY: There's a level of existence about which I know practically nothing.

People in Hell lose their bodies when the pass on, so that rules out immortality. They keep human nature when they pass, so that rules out eternal life.

The dark side of this world consists of spirit beings. I strongly suspect that when the lost pass on, they themselves become existent as spirit beings-- but I don't think they become demons or devils or some such.

For example: the story told at Luke 16:19-31 portrays a man in Hades entirely sentient. He has a tongue, and vision, and hearing, and is capable of speech. Plus; his memories are intact, and he's capable of anxiety. From all appearances, the man is fully human except of course he's no longer physical.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,589 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 96,784,401 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

RB

#287
Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Mon Jan 09, 2023 - 12:20:23
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FAQ: Do people in Hell have immortality?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Do people in Hell have eternal life?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: If so that people in Hell have neither immortality nor eternal life, then how can it be possible their conscious suffering is perpetual?

REPLY: There's a level of existence about which I know practically nothing.

People in Hell lose their bodies when the pass on, so that rules out immortality. They keep human nature when they pass, so that rules out eternal life.

The dark side of this world consists of spirit beings. I strongly suspect that when the lost pass on, they themselves become existent as spirit beings-- but I don't think they become demons or devils or some such.

For example: the story told at Luke 16:19-31 portrays a man in Hades entirely sentient. He has a tongue, and vision, and hearing, and is capable of speech. Plus; his memories are intact, and he's capable of anxiety. From all appearances, the man is fully human except of course he's no longer physical.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,589 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 96,784,401 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

Sir, God forbid that I question your sincerity, yet He commands us to rebuke error and false doctrine. Luke 16 is a parable, do you help in seeing this?  Did you watch a lot of sci-fi growing up? If the answer is yes, then I do see your problem in having a hard time with a present burning hellfire theory.

There is no such place, as a present burning hell fire~ your brother maybe saw the light of this truth before he passed on. You told us once that he was a priest that begun to even question if there was a burning hell. He certainly found out its twin brother "purgatory" was a false teaching. They go hand in hand, just in case you do not know, or have not consider this as of yet.   

NyawehNyoh

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Quote from: RB on Mon Jan 09, 2023 - 14:06:08Luke 16 is a parable

I have yet to read one of Christ's stories that couldn't possibly be taken from real life: they're all quite believable: farmers sowing seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the blind, et al. They're all 110% plausible. None of them come across as fantasy with no basis in reality.

Now if he had told a story about a wooden boy like Pinocchio, or a moon made of green cheese, or a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow; then I think we'd have reason to believe Christ was a tale-spinner.

The thing is: Abraham is an historical figure: a prophet (Gen 20:7) a reliable teacher/mentor (Gen 18:19) and one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8)

I just don't think Christ would tell a whopper about such an important man. Also, Jesus' story quotes Abraham. Well, if the story is fiction, then Christ quoted Abraham saying things he didn't really say.

Now if you prefer Luke 16:19-31 is a parable; that's okay by me; I have no problem with that just as long as you concede to the possibility that it's taken from a plausible real life event the same all the rest of Jesus' parables.


NOTE: None of Christ's stories originated with him. He was micromanaged.

John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

God is widely known for His honesty and His integrity. I cannot imagine someone so high, so holy, and so dignified stooping to tall tales especially when He has at His disposal a vast archive of real life human experiences to draw upon. And if there is anybody who knows anything at all about the afterlife. it's God; so you really ought to stop making His son out to be a big fibber and start listening to the information God instructed him to tell his followers.
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DaveW

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Mon Jan 09, 2023 - 12:20:23
People in Hell lose their bodies when the pass on, so that rules out immortality. They keep human nature when they pass, so that rules out eternal life.
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


So people DO have their bodies in hell.  That is why the evil dead are bodily resurrected at the final judgement. 

NyawehNyoh

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The rich man of Luke 16:19-31 was able to recognize the beggar who was at one time lain at his gate, which suggests that folks retain a measure of their appearance in the afterlife.

I don't know how the man recognized Abraham because the old gentleman lived many years prior to Moses and the Prophets: maybe the man just simply asked Abraham his name. But then too the man was able to hear Abraham speaking over on the other side of the barrier so he likely heard Lazarus use Abraham's name a time or two.

I think quite a bit of dialogue went back and forth but Jesus gave us only a smattering of it. In point of fact, he gave us the precise amount that God had in mind for everyone to know.

John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me.

John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.
_

NyawehNyoh

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"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives".

"The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-- on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam".
(Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot-- on imaging from Voyager 1)

The Earth is like a death star, careening thru space, looping around and around the Sun many times over and again: a floating grave yard whose soil is filled with the dead from many centuries stretching back to Abel: the first of its passengers to return to the dust from whence they came.

Ecc 7:2 . . It is better to spend your time at funerals than at festivals. For you are going to die, and you should think about it while there is still time.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,595 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 97,149,855 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Gen 28:15 . . Remember, I am with you: I will protect you wherever you go and will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.

Hardly any of those promises were fulfilled in Jacob's lifetime. So how could God say: "I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you"

Well; I think it best to take it that God remained Jacob's provider even in the grave, i.e. when God's people pass away, they don't become dead to Him; whereas when the wicked die, they no longer make any difference; for example:

"As to whether the dead will be raised-- Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, Moses wrote of The Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So he is the God of the living, not the dead. They are all alive to him." (Luke 20:37-38)

God has always been with Jacob, and never left him even once-- all these many years; better than three-thousand of them by now. And all this whole time Jacob has lived under God's protection because God promised He would protect Jacob wherever he went; and in order for that promise to be meaningful, it has to include the afterlife. (cf. Ps 139:7-10, Matt 16:18)


TALLY UPDATE: 1,600 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 97,454,400 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Rom 8:15-16 . . For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out: Abba, Father. The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

That passage tells of a supernatural close encounter of a third kind, so to speak.

Not every Christian undergoes the experience. For example: adherents of Catholicism honestly don't know for sure where they stand with God-- we're talking about something like 1.3 billion+  people. That number represents a minimum 49% of the world's Christians. It's difficult to tag the number of Protestants because they are so diverse in their beliefs and practices.

* Rom 8:15-16 never happened for Mother Teresa. She complained in private correspondence with spiritual counselors that she felt not the slightest glimmer of the Lord's presence virtually the entire five decades of missionary work in India; leading her to wonder if there really is a God out there; and she sometimes spoke of Jesus as "the absent one".

The Spirit of adoption is supposed to make God's people feel at home; not feel left out. I don't know what went wrong with Teresa but for sure her spiritual condition was not good.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,607 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 97,880,763 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me

John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

John 14:31 . . I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

God is not only Jesus' supervisor, but also his role model. For example: the Father has entrusted all judgment to His son (John 5:22) For that reason, people really ought to be scared of Christ because he intends to go about the business of judging no differently than the fire and brimstone practices of the God of the Old Testament, by whom Jesus has been trained to take the reins.

John 5:19 . . I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

Isa 11:4-5 . . He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,610 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 98,063,490 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Heb 12:29 . . For our God is a consuming fire.

That's a quote from Deut 4:24 which, in context, doesn't describe God's physical characteristics, rather, it's a figure of speech illustrating rage: defined by Webster's as violent and uncontrolled anger. It's hard to imagine Christianity's divine patron ticked off to that extent, but there it is.

* A consuming fire is one that cannot be extinguished, i.e. once it gets going, there's no stopping till all that's aflame is utterly destroyed beyond recognition, viz: a conflagration.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,614 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 98,307,126 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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FAQ: Does Matt 25:31-46 depict the final judgment?

REPLY: No, rather; it depicts a culling from the herd of Tribulation survivors relative to their treatment of the Jews during a time of unequaled anti-Semitism. If the Jews thought they had it bad in the Holocaust: something worse is yet to come.

TALLY UPDATE: 1,622 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 98,794,398 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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If there is such a thing as soul sleep, I won't know it, here's why:

I've been under anesthesia once for appendicitis, twice for hernias, one for a scalp lump, once for a kidney stone, twice for total knee replacements, once for a colonoscopy, once for lung cancer, and once for an endoscopy.

In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage of time. The very moment I went under was simultaneous with awakening. So if soul sleep is like that, I'll be in Heaven as if I went from here to there in less than a second of time on the clock, i.e. instantaneously. The same can be said for folks on track to face justice, i.e. there will be no delay.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,627 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 99,098,943 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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God has a passion for mercy and generosity; but they're not His only passions.

Rom 11:22 . . Behold then the kindness and severity of God

The human condition is so bad, so corrupt, and so hopeless that only the death of God's sole descendant is adequate to rescue everybody from the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:10-15 where numbers of folks will be terminated with extreme prejudice by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

Now, who in their right might mind can look at that scene and not come away with the opinion that it depicts a very cruel and unusual punishment? Why not just put folks down with an injection so that they softly and gently fall asleep never to wake up? Wouldn't that be nicer, more humane? Yes that would be nicer and more humane; but would it satisfy God?

Adam started out in the image of God. So at first, his sense of right and wrong was in agreement with his creator's sense of right and wrong. Then came the forbidden fruit incident when Adam's original sense of right was lost and his conscience became that of a tin god.

Well; that's why many of us cannot appreciate our maker's justice. If we did, we wouldn't be criticizing Him for the way He intends to punish folks. Instead, we'd be cheering Him on; like this:

Rev 16:5-7 . .Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say: You are just in these judgments: You who are, and who were; the Holy one, because you have so judged . . .Yes, Lord God Almighty, true and just are your judgments.

* The "Holy one" is none other than God's descendant, i.e. the sweet little babe away in a manger will be presiding at the great white throne event.

John 5:22-23 . . Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,663 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 101,291,667 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Luke 16:27-29 . . I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment. Abraham replied: They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.

Although many details pertaining to the afterlife are absent in the Old Testament, Moses and the prophets wrote quite a bit about retribution. Torah-trained Jews have always known something frightening is in the works. For example:

Isa 66:23-24 . . And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith The Lord; and they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,669 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 101,657,121 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Ps 115:17 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go down into silence.

"any who go down into silence" tells us that certain folks might just as well be mute in the afterlife because The Lord no longer lends them His ear; they're permanently cut off from His benevolence, viz: God has no interest whatsoever in either their worship or their prayers, i.e. they are dead to Him; and as far as He's concerned they're like old documents disposed in the shredder because they no longer matter.

* It's conceivable that the outer darkness spoken of in the 8th and 22nd chapters of Matthew is a sort of reiteration of Ps 115:17. In other words: although folks alienated from God are in a darkness of sorts already; He hasn't totally abandoned them yet.

Matt 5:44-45 . . I say, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For He gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too.

Illustrations for Dante's Inferno by the artist Gustave Doré may not be entirely true, but they sure do a good job of impressing the total and complete absence of God's benevolence in the netherworld.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,676 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 102,083,484 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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I think most folks would agree that monsters like Kim Jong-Un, Xi Jinping, Robert Mugabe, Muammar Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, human traffickers, and drug cartel kingpins belong in Hell; but why are decent folk down there?

Well; obviously humanity's moral compass points to a different north than their maker's, viz: sometimes what's permissible in human reasoning is unacceptable to God. Why is that?

In the beginning; humanity was created with a conscience patterned after its maker's conscience.

"And God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Gen 1:26-27)

Then came the forbidden fruit incident, wherein humanity's conscience lost its divine quality and became humanistic.

Then the Lord God said: Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:22)

In other words; Man became a tin god conducting himself in accord with his own moral values.

There's a rather humorous scene in Dante's Inferno where these two guys who knew each other in life are quarreling over who deserves Hell more than the other; which is pretty silly when it's considered that both are in the same place and on the same level.

I rather suspect that quite a few folks sincerely believe God has made a big mistake sending them down there. In their judicious estimation; others deserve it for sure, but not themselves.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,683 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 102,509,847 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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FAQ: Was Adam's disobedience a Hell-worthy transgression?

REPLY: No. According to Gen 2:17 it was a death-worthy transgression rather than Hell-worthy. In other words; the proper penalty for Adam's mistake was simply his loss of immortality; and of course loss of access to the tree of life to make sure he'd not survive. (Gen 3:22-24) Now as for Adam's later sins; that's another story.

FAQ: Did Jesus' virgin conception insulate him from Adam's fall?

REPLY: According to Romans 5:12-21 the so-called original sin isn't inherited, rather; it's imputed; and it isn't imputed to each in his own time, but was imputed to each in real time. In other words: the moment Adam tasted the forbidden fruit his entire posterity was doomed to mortality right then and there: no delay and no waiting period.

The thing is: although Joseph wasn't Jesus' biological father, his mother was biological; and if she was in any way biologically related to Eve, then Mary was also biologically related to Adam because Eve was constructed top to bottom, inside and out, front to back, and side to side with material taken from Adam's body. In point of fact: had Jesus not been executed, he would've eventually passed away of some other cause.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,688 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 102,814,392 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Consider a Jewish man; he's undergone circumcision the eighth day as required, and successfully completed Bar Mitzvah. From that point on he is obligated to comply with the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God on oath per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Now supposing that same Jewish man begins to have second thoughts about the covenant and thinks maybe he would like to try something else. Well; he is not at liberty to just up and walk away from the covenant; no, not when he is very likely indebted to it via one or more of the curses listed at Lev 26:14 39, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-68. Those curses have to be satisfied first before he can even surmise himself free to transfer his affections to another religion. However; if that man would like; Christ can do it all for him.

  Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Gal 3:13 . . . Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,693 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 103,118,937 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Rev 16:8-9 . .The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire. They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify Him.

Rev 16:10-11 . .The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

You know what's missing in those two scenarios? The element of fright is missing. The recipients of those acts of God actually get angry and resentful instead of scared.

Back in the sixth chapter, people panic and actually pray to be buried alive rather than face the wrath of God. But apparently by the time of the sixteenth chapter, they're over it. Well; no surprise there.

The first time I heard of Jesus' return I got nervous because, at the time, I had a lot to answer for. But the nervousness soon passed, and I became indignant because I don't like being made afraid; so I can sort of understand the people's change of mood between the sixth chapter and the sixteenth. Hell is no doubt populated by a large number of very outraged folks.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,698 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 103,423,482 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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Righteousness and Justification are spoken of together in Rom 5:18 the same as they are in Rom 3:21-24. So then, if perchance someone is fortunate to obtain the righteousness, then they will automatically obtain the justification that goes along with it.


FYI: Righteousness pertains to innocence, and Justification pertains to acquittal.

For example: former US President Donald Trump was charged with insurrection. His accusers in the Senate failed to convict him, i.e. the majority voted for his innocence and consequently he was acquitted.

This is what God has done for some of us; except that He has declared us all guilty rather than innocent (Rom 3:23). However; via our faith in Jesus' blood as an adequate propitiation for our sins, God granted us an adjudication of innocence, and consequently an acquittal. It's all spelled out in Rom 3:21-28.

The first prayer I prayed that made some sense contained the words below:

"God, I know I'm a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death"

My prayer wasn't much to brag about; but it was the smartest sixteen words I'd ever spoken up to that time.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,703 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 103,728,027 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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NyawehNyoh

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The way I figure it: seeing as how God is an intelligent, mature adult (so to speak) who's never petty, nor capricious, nor biased, nor fickle, nor impulsive, nor unreasonable, and takes no kind of sick pleasure in causing people harm; then God must be just as stuck with Hell and can't make it go away with any more ease than we can.

For reasons I have yet to even guess, Hell is unavoidable even for God because it's somehow the right thing to do; i.e. it has to be utilized for punishment in order to satisfy a level of justice that our limited little minds may never be able to fully grasp.

Ps 145:17 . .The Lord is righteous in all His ways


TALLY UPDATE: 1,708 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 104,032,572 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
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NyawehNyoh

#307
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FAQ: Doesn't 1Tim 2:4 say it is God's will that everyone be spared?

REPLY: It was likely God's will that no one perish in the Flood, but many did anyway.

2Pet 2:4 . . God did not spare the ancient world when he brought the Flood on its ungodly people; but saved only Noah plus seven others.

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a fair warning of terrors yet to come.

2Pet 2:6 . . He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes; making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,714 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 104,398,026 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

#308
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The Corona virus is potentially lethal but not necessarily fatal, viz: should you contract the disease, the likelihood of your getting past it is very good.

The global death toll as of 05/19/2023 was in the neighborhood of 6,877,607 out of 688,762,502 cases, viz: the odds of dying from the virus are like 100 to one.

Of course folks down below no longer concern themselves with diseases; they have a whole other world of problems to cope with; mostly thirst, despair, and anxiety. I should think that finding a place to sit down would occupy their thoughts quite a bit too.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,719 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 104,702,571 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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The New Testament often speaks of the afterlife by means of the Greek word háidēs (a.k.a. Hades) which was doubtless borrowed from Hellenistic influences prevalent in that day.

Hades was believed to be a conscious afterlife where everybody went when they died regardless of age, race, gender, or religious preference; which of course implies that not only was the rich man of Luke 16:19-31 in Hades but so were Abraham and Lazarus; even Jesus did some time there. (Matt 12:40 & Acts 2:25 31)

Hades is sometimes thought to speak of people's graves, but the correct Greek word for grave in the New Testament isn't Hades, it's actually mnemeion (mnay-mi' on), for example:

Matt 27:52-53 . . And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Matt 27:59-60 . . And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulcher, and departed.

John 11:18 . . Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.

John 11:38 . . Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

John 12:17 . . The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.

Those are only a smattering of examples from the New Testament where grave is properly translated from mnemeion. Bible committees that render Hades as grave do so arbitrarily, i.e. by interpretation rather than by translation.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,724 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 105,007,116 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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1John 4:10 . . . God loved us when we didn't love Him, and sent His son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

The Greek verb for love in that passage speaks of benevolence sans any particular affection and/or fondness. This is the manner of love we're required to extend to everyone regardless of whether we like them or not.

In a nutshell, the love expressed in sending Christ to die for God's enemies was an act of gratuitous kindness, care, pity, courtesy, and sympathy which should not be mistaken to indicate that He particularly likes any of us. In point of fact, God most likely detests a pretty large number of people for whom Christ died; yet He's not indifferent to their safety because God is basically a neighborly sort of person. (Matt 5:44-48)


BTW: If perchance you haven't already; take a moment to speak with God and tell Him you'd like to take advantage of His son's death.

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." (1John 2:2)


TALLY UPDATE: 1,730 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 105,372,570 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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  Zech 1:5 . .Where are your forefathers now? And the prophets, do they live forever?

My own father is gone, and the great preacher Billy Graham; he's gone too. My favorite rock and roll guitar player during the years I was a teen-ager was Chuck Berry. He's gone. When I was a sophomore in high school, me and a buddy went to see "The Blob" starring a rather unknown actor at the time named Steve McQueen. He's gone. My eldest brother entered the Catholic priesthood and anon became a Friar. He's gone. My bestest friend ever, whom I'd known since the 2nd grade in elementary school back in 1951, is gone too; shot to death by law enforcement at only 37 years old.

There's hardly a month goes by without someone passing away that at one time was very important to me; a constant reminder that nobody lives forever and neither will I. At my current age of 79, and diagnosed with esophageal cancer, I'll be passing away not too long from now. Most of my life has already been lived and I'm in the home stretch; heading for the exit. When I was a youngster, life's horizon seemed forever far away; but now, looking at my deteriorating body, it seems I'm walking on the horizon's edge.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,738 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 105,859,842 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

#312
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I would like it very much if my friends, associates, and loved ones down in Hades were allowed visitor days in the afterlife because after they're transferred to the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15, I may never get to be with them ever again.

Christians are sometimes asked how they can possibly be happy in Heaven while aware that their loved ones are imprisoned in an eternity of suffering. Well; Rev 21:4 predicts there will neither sorrow nor tears in the future cosmos, apparently made possible by starting over from scratch and leaving all else behind, including memories of the past.

Rev 21:5 . . He who was seated on the throne said: I am making everything new! Then he said: Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,743 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 106,164,387 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

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In the story told at Luke 16-19-31, the beggar Lazarus died and was carried by angels to the afterlife. Curiously, the rich man's transportation isn't specified.

One of the most disturbing scenes I've yet to observe in a Hollywood movie occurs in "GHOST" starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. When someone marked for the wrong side of the afterlife passes away, these eerie phantoms emerge, having the appearance of black oily smoke, uttering awful moans, and drag their panic-stricken captives down into the ground.

I don't know if that's how the rich man in Luke's story was transported, but if so; I can well imagine just how shocking and horrifying it must've been for him at death to suddenly be able to see menacing spirit creatures surrounding him with looks on their faces that could only convey but one unmistakable intent; and I suspect those sinister beings had been hovering around that poor man and stalking him every day and night of his entire life without him knowing it and patiently waiting for the green light to take him down.

So, I wonder if the angels that provided Lazarus transportation were not also assigned as security to protect him from being shanghaied by something similar to those dark mists.


TALLY UPDATE: 1,750 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 106,590,750 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

NyawehNyoh

~
Matt 5:8 . . Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

A rough-hewn definition of "pure in heart" is when someone is the same on the inside as they are on the outside; which is just the opposite of dissembling; defined as: to put on a false appearance, i.e. conceal facts, intentions, or feelings under some pretense.

Dissembling is a very common form of dishonesty which is practiced by just about everybody at one time or another. Most of us do not always want others to know what we are actually thinking and/or feeling about certain things. The very opposite of that is transparency, which most of us want from others, but prefer not to reciprocate with transparency of our own.

Here's a really good example of someone pure in heart.

"When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false." (John 1:47)

Jesus was pure in heart too.

"No deceit was found in his mouth." (1Pet 2:22)

I think we may safely assume there are no exceptions to the sixth beatitude, i.e. no one is exempt; sincerity and forthrightness aren't optional with God; they're mandatory.

"Who may ascend into the hill of The Lord? And who may stand in His holy place? He who has . . a pure heart . . he shall receive a blessing from The Lord." (Ps 24:3-5)


TALLY UPDATE: 1,896 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post No.1 are in the ball park, then something like 115,483,464 arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Sept 03, 2018.
_

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