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Paul Was Pre-Trib

Started by Rella, Wed May 24, 2023 - 17:30:27

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Rella

 ( a potentially different viewpoint)

https://www.raptureforums.com/rapture/paul-pre-trib/

Following partial quote is from above link.

QuotePaul Was Pre-Trib
May 22, 2023
Bible Prophecy, Bible Study, End Times, Rapture
Paul Was Pre-Trib
By Jack Kelley

This is not meant to be a complete commentary on 2 Thes. 2. Instead, I want to demonstrate that Paul had to have taught the Thessalonians that the rapture of the Church would precede the End Times judgments. Think of it as a supplement to your study of 1st and 2nd Thessalonians.

By most accounts Paul stayed in Thessalonica for only about 3 weeks and during that time he founded a Church and taught them the doctrines of salvation and sanctification, the Trinity, the nature of man, the assurance of pardon, and the Day of the Lord. He continued teaching them after he left with his first letter, written from Corinth in 51 AD, in which he introduced the doctrine of the rapture (1 Thes. 4:16-17). Shortly after that they received another letter appearing to be from him, announcing that the Day of the Lord had come. They reacted with fear and confusion and immediately sought clarification.

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the Day of the Lord has already come. Don't let any one deceive you in any way for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." (2 Thes 2:1-3)

From Paul's response it's clear the previous letter had been a forgery, sent by someone pretending to be him and designed to frighten them. It worked. The Greek words for unsettle and alarm literally mean to agitate, incite, and frighten. Something in the letter had contradicted their understanding of his teaching and they were upset. Reading 2 Thes 2:1-3 we see that the forgery must have disputed Paul's teaching on events leading up to the Day of the Lord. This is the only logical explanation for his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians.

Notice that right from the beginning Paul separated the coming of the Lord from our being gathered to Him. That's because they're two different events. We can't tell their relative timing from this, but we can tell they're not the same thing. One is when He comes back down to Earth, while from 1 Thes. 4:16-17 we know the other has us going up to meet Him in the air and continuing to Heaven. The 2nd coming will be witnessed by everyone (Matt. 24:30), but the rapture is an instantaneous disappearance (1 Cor. 15:51-52) that happens without warning.

Yes, I understand some of you feel this is one persons idea and you do not know him. Be aware he also does not know you.[/size]

This is an article that I thought some here may find of interest.[/size]

4WD

Nah, Paul was strictly an amillennialist.  I can get into that a little if you like.

Rella

Quote from: 4WD on Wed May 24, 2023 - 18:37:49
Nah, Paul was strictly an amillennialist.  I can get into that a little if you like.

Fine, I have no skin in this game.... yet.

Texas Conservative

Paul was definitely pre-trib according to the science.

4WD

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

That was exquisite.  That was almost a +1 but I will hold off on that for now.

dpr

Apostle Paul taught a Post-tribulational view of Christ's future return and gathering of the saints. This a FACT from the written Scripture in 1 Thessalonians 4...

1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV


Paul in the previous 13 thru 15th verses covered Jesus' bringing the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. Verse 16 shows those 'asleep' saints being resurrected PRIOR to His gathering of the saints still alive on earth per verse 17.

So when... is the RESURRECTION? It happens on the day of Christ's future coming when all... in the graves come forth (John 5:28-29). That means the VERY LAST DAY of this world, after the great tribulation. Jesus' coming is actually what will end the time of great tribulation and this present world.

Thus I am surprised that so many brethren are not that familiar with Apostle Paul's teaching in 1 Thessalonians 4 as written.

What Paul showed there is actually the same... teaching that Lord Jesus revealed in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, which is about His coming and gathering of His saints AFTER... the tribulation of those days.



dan p

Quote from: 4WD on Wed May 24, 2023 - 18:37:49Nah, Paul was strictly an amillennialist.  I can get into that a little if you like.

Rella   is   spot  on   and  2  Thess  2:3     2:3  is  the   answer  ,  when   anyone   studies ,  the   Greek  word   translated   Falling   Away ;

That   Greek  word   is  PAROUSIA  which  means a  Departure and  this  same  Greek word   is   used  in  Acts  21:21 !!

dan p 

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

QuotePaul Was Pre-Trib
Maybe... but Jesus wasn't.

dpr

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue Feb 27, 2024 - 09:20:12Maybe... but Jesus wasn't.

Apostle Paul was not pre-trib, so no true Christian should even agree to a 'maybe'.

The problem is that Pre-tribbers use a 'different' Bible than the one that was handed down to the Christian Church via the Traditional Texts by Christ's witnesses. Pre-tribbers simply discard all parts of Bible Scripture which disagrees with what they 'want' to believe.

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: dpr on Tue Feb 27, 2024 - 10:19:49Apostle Paul was not pre-trib, so no true Christian should even agree to a 'maybe'.
It was an attempt at humor.

Quote from: dpr on Tue Feb 27, 2024 - 10:19:49The problem is that Pre-tribbers use a 'different' Bible than the one that was handed down to the Christian Church via the Traditional Texts by Christ's witnesses. Pre-tribbers simply discard all parts of Bible Scripture which disagrees with what they 'want' to believe.
You talkin bout the Scofield Reference Bible?

Texas Conservative

Paul was certainly pre-trib.  Unless you are a preterist.  And then he lived after the trib.

dpr

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Feb 27, 2024 - 10:25:46Paul was certainly pre-trib.  Unless you are a preterist.  And then he lived after the trib.

Apostle Paul absolutely was NOT... Pre-trib.

You cannot show Bible Scripture where Paul pointed to a Pre-tribulational coming by Christ and gathering of His saints.

Thusly, all you are doing is simply wrongly supporting a false doctrine first planted in churches in 1830's Britain by John Nelson Darby, and which then spread to the Americas, especially by the charlatan thief C.I. Scofield.

dpr

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue Feb 27, 2024 - 10:21:37It was an attempt at humor.

I knew that, but I don't think it a joking matter.

QuoteYou talkin bout the Scofield Reference Bible?

No, I was talking about the 'imaginary' Bible they create in their minds by omitting... much of The Bible Scriptures. Notice below even the Darby Bible reveals that Jesus' coming to gather His saints is AFTER the tribulation...

Matt 24:29-31
29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the land lament, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from [the one] extremity of [the] heavens to [the other] extremity of them.
Darby



What Scofield did with his Scofield Study Bible was to add annotations of his personal beliefs to Bible translations, like the KJV originally. And now Oxford publishers have added it to the NKJV, NIV, and NASB.


Texas Conservative

Obviously Paul was pre-trib.  He died before the tribulation.

Rella

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Feb 28, 2024 - 06:28:30Obviously Paul was pre-trib.  He died before the tribulation.

 rofl  rofl  rofl  rofl  rofl

dpr

Quote from: Rella on Wed Feb 28, 2024 - 06:30:25rofl  rofl  rofl  rofl  rofl

I like the pic of the pre-trib rapture believer looking up with suitcase in hand while chaos has already broken out all around him.

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