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Hebrew Visions of Revelation

Started by Rella, Sun Jan 14, 2024 - 07:21:40

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Rella

This is a link to where you can download a free copy of the book

Hebrew Visions of Revelation, by Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg, Ph.D.

With this comment under his name

Have we misunderstood the story entirely?

I have just receive my copy... by email.... ( it took a few minutes )
and of note is the copyright page

ISBN: 9798863523675
All Rights Reserved. Hebrew Visions of Revelation,
Copyright © 2023 by Eliyahu Lizorkin-Eyzenberg.
Cover design by Pinchas Shir (www.pshir.com). This
book contains material protected under International and
Federal Copyright Laws and Treaties. Any unauthorized
reprint or use of this material is prohibited. No part of
this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form
or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including
photocopying, recording, or by any information storage
and retrieval system without written permission from the
author (dr.eli.israel@gmail.com).

Which precludes me from actually posting the link for the actual book.

But they provide the way you can get it at the link below.And I would think conversations without major quoting would be acceptable.

Happy reading....

https://lp.israelbiblecenter.com/lp-biblical-studies-ibc-revelation-campaign-en.html?via=3e6af93#3e6af93




Rella

Adding to my post above...

I obtained permission from the author
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg,

to post one comment from the book I am now reading... It is an interesting comment so I wanted to share.

From page 6 of the book....

"The message Revelation was either authored during or in anticipation of persecution of especially non-Jewish followers of Messiah (Christ) in the Roman Empire."

It  just hit me, @3 Resurrections,  that I wonder how this would affect the preterists beliefs who tie Revelation to the AD70 temple destruction.

3 Resurrections

Quote from: Rella on Sun Jan 14, 2024 - 11:55:17From page 6 of the book....

"The message Revelation was either authored during or in anticipation of persecution of especially non-Jewish followers of Messiah (Christ) in the Roman Empire."

It  just hit me, @3 Resurrections,  that I wonder how this would affect the preterists beliefs who tie Revelation to the AD70 temple destruction.

Well, I have stated the same before many times - that Revelation was written somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60, at a time just prior to the breakout of Nero's blistering persecution of the saints.  This started in late AD 64 when he made war against them and "overcame them" for those 42 months in Revelation 13:5-7 until just before Nero's death in AD 68.

John's letters to the 7 churches speak of an imminent outbreak of persecution for the believers under which they were "about to suffer", and the hour of trial which was "about to come upon all the world".


Rella

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Sun Jan 14, 2024 - 13:39:32Well, I have stated the same before many times - that Revelation was written somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60, at a time just prior to the breakout of Nero's blistering persecution of the saints.  This started in late AD 64 when he made war against them and "overcame them" for those 42 months in Revelation 13:5-7 until just before Nero's death in AD 68.

John's letters to the 7 churches speak of an imminent outbreak of persecution for the believers under which they were "about to suffer", and the hour of trial which was "about to come upon all the world".




Yes you have.  But not all do.

So, I especially wanted you to know what this man said there and if there is anything I find interesting I'll PM you

dpr

Quote from: Rella on Sun Jan 14, 2024 - 15:56:13Yes you have.  But not all do.

So, I especially wanted you to know what this man said there and if there is anything I find interesting I'll PM you


Yet the evidence for John being on Patmos during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian, and released to live in Ephesus after the death of Domitian, as revealed by early Church fathers, outweighs any 70 A.D. suppositions.

3 Resurrections

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 15:36:54Yet the evidence for John being on Patmos during the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian, and released to live in Ephesus after the death of Domitian, as revealed by early Church fathers, outweighs any 70 A.D. suppositions.


On the contrary, the internal evidence within Revelation and the scripture itself all points to a pre-AD 70 composition of Revelation. External sources should always take a back seat to the book of Revelation itself and the time markers within it.  All of these time markers combined indicate a composition date in a very narrow window of time between late AD 59 and early AD 60.

And you are conveniently disregarding the external evidences as well that point to a composition of Revelation during the reign of Nero. 

 

 

dpr

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 22:08:11On the contrary, the internal evidence within Revelation and the scripture itself all points to a pre-AD 70 composition of Revelation.
....

That statement is false, and easily disproven by the fact that the Seals of Revelation 6 are the SIGNS of the end that Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

Moreover, what Jesus said in His Olivet discourse linking the final generation on earth that will see His future return with it, makes proving Preterist's false ideas that Jesus' Olivet discourse SIGNs were fulfilled back in history, like 70 A.D., so... easy... to refute...

Matt 24:32-37
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:


Symbolic "summer" is when the symbolic harvest is which Jesus is showing there, which is verified by the continuing subject here about the day of His future return.


33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Likewise, when that generation "shall see all these things", know that His return is at the doors. When they see all WHAT THINGS? Those SIGNS of the end leading up to His future return that He gave there in His Olive discourse, with the very last SIGN He gave there being His future return and gathering of His saints, His Church. And it is THAT generation that will SEE His return at the end that He was pointing to.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV


That idea of Heaven and earth passing away is about the LAST DAY of this present world on the "day of the Lord". That is the day when Jesus will... return. And that... is the subject here, not some false Preterist or Historicist notion that all these SIGNS in His Olivet discourse were fulfilled back in 70 A.D.

I know you didn't create the false doctrine you are on, those false ideas you say have been around for a long time.

3 Resurrections

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 23:05:3233 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

I guess you never noticed that James announced the fulfillment of this verse (James 4:8-9).

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts for the coming of the Lord has drawn near.  Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: BEHOLD, THE JUDGE STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR." 

Christ's second coming bodily return was on the near horizon for those believers James was addressing.  So near in time, that James said the judge was "standing at the door", just as Christ had foretold for His own generation.

James had just been warning the rich men of his day, scolding them for having "heaped treasure together in the last days" (James 5:3).  Those were the last days of that age.  Other ages followed the end of those last days, once Christ had bodily returned.  Scripture describes in several places the continued progress of regular history on this planet that would still occur after the bodily return of Christ in AD 70.

Unfortunately, you are stuck in a rut and can't seem to acknowledge those texts. 


dpr

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 23:44:52I guess you never noticed that James announced the fulfillment of this verse (James 4:8-9).

"Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts for the coming of the Lord has drawn near.  Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: BEHOLD, THE JUDGE STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR." 

Christ's second coming bodily return was on the near horizon for those believers James was addressing.  So near in time, that James said the judge was "standing at the door", just as Christ had foretold for His own generation.

James had just been warning the rich men of his day, scolding them for having "heaped treasure together in the last days" (James 5:3).  Those were the last days of that age.  Other ages followed the end of those last days, once Christ had bodily returned.  Scripture describes in several places the continued progress of regular history on this planet that would still occur after the bodily return of Christ in AD 70.

Unfortunately, you are stuck in a rut and can't seem to acknowledge those texts. 

That is one of the worst false suppositions from taking Bible Scripture out of its context that I have ever seen. There is so much... Bible Scripture, in both the Old Testament Books and New Testament Books declaring the FUTURE return of Jesus Christ that there simply is no excuse for one claiming to be a Christian to be Biblically ignorant of those Bible witnesses! And I guarantee that Apostle James was definitely NOT ignorant of the Bible Scripture about Christ's FUTURE return which is still expecting to this day!




3 Resurrections

Quote from: dpr on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 12:46:15That is one of the worst false suppositions from taking Bible Scripture out of its context that I have ever seen. There is so much... Bible Scripture, in both the Old Testament Books and New Testament Books declaring the FUTURE return of Jesus Christ that there simply is no excuse for one claiming to be a Christian to be Biblically ignorant of those Bible witnesses! And I guarantee that Apostle James was definitely NOT ignorant of the Bible Scripture about Christ's FUTURE return which is still expecting to this day!

Who said anything about denying a future bodily return of Christ?  I have never denied this.

But James was most definitely writing about a return of Christ as a judge that was then "at the door".  The coming of the Lord had already "drawn near" at the time James was writing.  Someone standing "at the door" is arriving in a very short period of time.  A child could understand this.  It takes a scholar to twist the meaning of this simple message and try to make it say something else. 

Christ was returning soon in those last days during the first century, and as Paul wrote to Timothy in AD 67, Christ was "about to judge the living and the dead at His appearance and His kingdom".  Which He did in AD 70 . 

What you and I are waiting for is Christ's final third coming return and a final judgment.   

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