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Jaime
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The Parable of The Wheat & Tares

Started by dpr, Sun Feb 18, 2024 - 23:46:11

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dpr

If you do not  understand this parable of the wheat and the tares that Lord Jesus taught, then you probably will not understand about the principalities of Satan's host working behind the scenes in this present world. Believe it or not, Jesus did cover the matter, and it has a long history in the Old Testament Books also.

Matt 13:24-30
24 Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, "Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?"
28 He said unto them, "An enemy hath done this." The servants said unto him, "Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?"
29 But he said, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
KJV


In the actual horticulture of wheat and tares, the tares are actually weeds that while growing look just like real wheat. Then when the tares are fully grown, they manifest black buds on their ends so they are easily recognized. At harvest the tares are then separated from the wheat, and the tares are cast into the fire, but the wheat goes into the barn.


Then later, Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house with His disciples, and they asked Him to explain the parable of the tares of the field...

Matt 13:36-43
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;


The good wheat represents God's children which Jesus sowed.


38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.


The tares, which are weeds that look just like wheat while growing, represent the children of the devil which he sowed in this world. Harvest time is the end of this world by Christ's angels.


40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV


Notice that Jesus did not mention His future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 in the above. Just because He did not mention it here, does not mean His "thousand years" future reign won't happen, just so ya know.

So who really, are these "tares" per His Word? Do you know? Did you even know that God's Word points to them in many Bible Scriptures?

Jaime

And which is taken first and dealt with in the end? Contrary to the Left Behind scenario.

dpr

Zechariah 14, a chapter that declares Christ's future return to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, also reveals that 'leftovers' who came up against Jerusalem will be made to come up to Jerusalem and worship The KING, and keep the feast of tabernacles from year to year. So the Bible student was actually supposed to have already been aware of that Zechariah 14 Scripture before they read Jesus' explanation of His parable of the wheat and tares.

Thus we know the wicked are not all destroyed at Christ's future coming, nor are the unsaved nations. The 'tares', those ordained to work against Christ that will still reject Him, will go into the "lake of fire" at the Great White Throne Judgment of Rev.20.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with any Left-behind scenario, which idea is not even written in God's Word anyway.

Quote from: Jaime on Mon Feb 19, 2024 - 12:29:23And which is taken first and dealt with in the end? Contrary to the Left Behind scenario.

Texas Conservative

Left Behind is almost purely biblical.  Sad to see so many people rejecting the truth.

Rella

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Feb 19, 2024 - 13:01:37Left Behind is almost purely biblical.  Sad to see so many people rejecting the truth.

+1

Jaime

#5
 NO, The Left Behind scenario says the righteous will be taken first and THEN the unrighteous will be dealt with afterwards. Not so in the Wheat and Tares. I agree with the Wheat and Tares chronology IN the Bible.

Later two men working in a field, one is taken and the orher left behind. Why do we assume the righteousnis taken and the unrighteous is left behind, if the parable of the whest and tares has any bearing at all?

dpr

#6
Yal on man's Pre-trib Rapture theory, don't feel sorry for me, but feel sorry for yourselves, because Jesus was emphatic in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His saints is AFTER... the tribulation, not prior to it.

That is what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 also, because Paul showed in 1 Thess.4:13-16 that the asleep saints are resurrected first when Jesus brings them with Him when He comes. And that resurrection only happens on the LAST DAY of this present world, which is when He comes to gather His Church.

For 1,800 years, until John Nelson Darby in 1830's Great Britain started preaching the false Pre-trib Rapture theory, the Christian Church had held to a Post-tribulational return of Jesus Christ.

Those in Christ are not to be deceived by such preachers. We are to stick with what God's written Word says, and Jesus made the time of His coming to gather His saints very plain, as did Apostle Paul also. So if one would rather listen to some preacher, or to an organization system, instead of staying in God's Word and listening to Him, then that person is certainly looking for trouble and to be deceived by Satan's servants who undoubtedly began the false pre-trib rapture theory.

With the Left-behind idea, one who believes that should take a much closer look at the end of Luke 17 where Christ's disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord?" after He had said about two grinding at the mill, one taken and the other left, etc. Jesus' answer shows the one 'taken' will be wherever the dead 'carcase' is, as that's where the fowls will be gathered together.

Luke 17:35-37
35 "Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV


The Matthew 24 version of Christ's answer...

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


Jesus' answer shows that His servants definitely do NOT... want to be the first one TAKEN, because those are NOT taken by Him.

Sorry, but there are so many Pre-trib Rapture preachers that have put their faith in a false doctrine from men that is NOT written in God's Word. Those preachers are promising something they have NO authority to promise, because Jesus and His Apostles instead WARNED His servants about the false leaven doctrine that men create.


Texas Conservative

I guess some people will be left behind.  And then when I am gone, and they are still here, they will be sorry.

Jaime

Hmmmm the parable says the unrighteous will be take out first and burnt up, and not left behind.

Quote30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

dpr

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Feb 20, 2024 - 18:11:01Hmmmm the parable says the unrighteous will be take out first and burnt up, and not left behind.


Which did Jesus give in final, that Matthew 13 Scripture, or His Revelation, like Revelation 20 where He showed Satan, the wicked, the abode of hell, and death, are not destroyed until after His future "thousand years" reign?

Clearly, what He showed in His Revelation is the 'last Word' about when those "tares" will be destroyed, so why would we deny His Revelation while reading His parable of the wheat and tares?

dpr

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Feb 20, 2024 - 16:21:57I guess some people will be left behind.  And then when I am gone, and they are still here, they will be sorry.

Well brother, that suggests you heed man's false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory, which is not Biblical.

Even though that doctrine may be popular, it still is not Biblical.

Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His future coming and 'gathering' of His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation.

And even at the end of Luke 17, when Jesus was asked, "Where, Lord?" by His disciples about the ones that were 'taken', Jesus showed those taken will be as a dead carcase wheresoever the fowls are gathering together. That is definitely not... about being gathered to Lord Jesus, but instead to Satan's host, which in God's Word the fowls are symbols for.


Jaime

#11
Quote from: dpr on Wed Feb 21, 2024 - 11:06:45Which did Jesus give in final, that Matthew 13 Scripture, or His Revelation, like Revelation 20 where He showed Satan, the wicked, the abode of hell, and death, are not destroyed until after His future "thousand years" reign?

Clearly, what He showed in His Revelation is the 'last Word' about when those "tares" will be destroyed, so why would we deny His Revelation while reading His parable of the wheat and tares?

I'm not denying what revelations says. I believe in a post millennial tribulation and THEN a gathering as Mathew 24 clearly states.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Texas Conservative

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 23:22:09Well brother, that suggests you heed man's false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory, which is not Biblical.

Even though that doctrine may be popular, it still is not Biblical.

Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His future coming and 'gathering' of His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation.

And even at the end of Luke 17, when Jesus was asked, "Where, Lord?" by His disciples about the ones that were 'taken', Jesus showed those taken will be as a dead carcase wheresoever the fowls are gathering together. That is definitely not... about being gathered to Lord Jesus, but instead to Satan's host, which in God's Word the fowls are symbols for.



Just like God spared Noah and his family, so will Christians be spared the tribulation.

Jaime

#13
No, we will be spared his wrath or final judgement of the second death.


Besides what can be done to us that hasn't already been done to some Christians throughout history until now, except torture and kill us in some fashion because of our faith? Are we in this age granted immunity to a horrible death and tribulation like happened TO CHRISTIANS in pretty much every century since Christ?

I absolutrly believe that we will be sparedthe eradication of his final wrath of the second death. But the tribulation leading TO that, not so much. If not God was wildly unfair to the 10s of millions horribly tortued and killed for their faith throughout history.


dpr

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 06:35:41Just like God spared Noah and his family, so will Christians be spared the tribulation.

Well, Noah and his family didn't have to leave the earth. The Ark was his protection, and God even 'sealed' them in that Ark. For the end, Lord Jesus Christ is our Ark of protection. And God's 'seal' by The Holy Spirit is how we are kept from the hour of temptation, meaning the coming Antichrist-false-messiah will not be a temptation to Christ's elect during the tribulation.

Noah's Ark was on top of the height of the waters of the flood for 150 days. Per the old Hebrew reckoning, 150 days equals a period of five months. That "five months" is how long the coming tribulation is to last, and is how long those NOT sealed with God's seal will be subject to the 'stinging'.

And most importantly, those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Scriptures that Jesus said, which I quoted, completely exposes the Pre-trib Rapture theory as false. And I believe my Lord Jesus Christ over all men who claim different.

dpr

Quote from: Jaime on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 06:52:02No, we will be spared his wrath or final judgement of the second death.

....


I assume you are referring to the following "wrath" idea that Apostle Paul mentioned...

1 Thess 5:9
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV


That above "wrath" has nothing... to do with the future "second death" that only will occur AFTER Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

Furthermore, that "wrath" Paul mentioned there is about the day of God's cup of wrath poured on the FINAL 7th Vial, on the LAST DAY of this present world (Rev.16:15-18)

That is why Apostle Paul was pointing to the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" WHEN... the wicked and deceived say, "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" comes upon them. That means the LAST DAY of this world, NOT the time of the "great tribulation" which happens prior to that last day.

The false Pre-trib Rapture school has twisted so many Bible Scriptures around that it is very easy for them to fool the Biblically illiterate who will not do their own homework in God's Word.



Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 06:35:41Just like God spared Noah and his family, so will Christians be spared the tribulation.
Hmmm... I don't think TC is serious here.  He's just stirring the pot.


Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: dpr on Sun Feb 18, 2024 - 23:46:11So who really, are these "tares" per His Word? Do you know? Did you even know that God's Word points to them in many Bible Scriptures?
The parable of wheat and tares is about Israel's mixed heritage. 

Even from the times of Moses, the nation was a mixed group - faithful AND unbelieving, the children of Jacob AND Esau, the wheat AND the tares.

Jesus put the latter group on notice.  A reckoning was coming... and it came.  The Sadducees and the Levites and the temple are no more.  They were burned... literally.

dpr

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 12:45:26The parable of wheat and tares is about Israel's mixed heritage. 

Even from the times of Moses, the nation was a mixed group - faithful AND unbelieving, the children of Jacob AND Esau, the wheat AND the tares.

Jesus put the latter group on notice.  A reckoning was coming... and it came.  The Sadducees and the Levites and the temple are no more.  They were burned... literally.

Mixing with the Canaanites and the very nations which God told the children of Israel to utterly destroy per Deuteronomy 20, that is. I don't care to try and sugarcoat that, because our Heavenly Father certainly didn't (Judges 2 and Judges 3). Nor did Jesus come to think of it (see John 8).

Jaime

#19
Dor,  so you agree with me that the Tribulation is NOT God's wrath? But that comes later? If so we agree perfectly. Many many Christians have suffered much tribulation over the centuries and continue to.today.

Jaime

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 12:45:26The parable of wheat and tares is about Israel's mixed heritage. 

Even from the times of Moses, the nation was a mixed group - faithful AND unbelieving, the children of Jacob AND Esau, the wheat AND the tares.

Jesus put the latter group on notice.  A reckoning was coming... and it came.  The Sadducees and the Levites and the temple are no more.  They were burned... literally.

Some believe that the tares are decendants of Cain sewn along side the other decendants of Adam. I think they call this the Serpent Seed.

dpr

Quote from: Jaime on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 13:44:46Dor,  so you agree with me that the Tribulation is NOT God's wrath? But that comes later? If so we agree perfectly. Many many Christians have suffered much tribulation over the centuries and continue to.today.

I assumed that you were pointing to the "wrath" of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 that Paul said we are not appointed to as Satan's wrath for during the "great tribulation". Paul was not talking about Satan's "wrath" of Revelation 12:12 (KJV). Paul was pointing to God's cup of wrath poured out on the wicked on the last day of this world, upon the wicked.

The Pre-trib Rapture school likes to push the falsehood that 1 Thess.5:9 is about Satan's wrath during the coming tribulation. It is not.

dpr

Quote from: Jaime on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 13:44:46Many many Christians have suffered much tribulation over the centuries and continue to.today.

Lord Jesus was specific about the time for the "great tribulation" per His Olivet discourse SIGNS at the end, leading up to His future return. It's not proper to apply that "great tribulation" to just any time. That "great tribulation" will only begin with the false-Messiah at Jerusalem placing the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new Jewish temple there, which is the requirement for that per the Book of Daniel that Jesus quoted that from.

That may sound like I'm being too specific, but that is what the actual AOD and "great tribulation" prophecies are about as written in God's Word.


Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Jaime on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 14:19:58Some believe that the tares are decendants of Cain sewn along side the other decendants of Adam. I think they call this the Serpent Seed.
That wasn't what I had in mind.  That's like a fringe theory - science fiction.

Jaime

Quote from: dpr on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 17:19:55I assumed that you were pointing to the "wrath" of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 that Paul said we are not appointed to as Satan's wrath for during the "great tribulation". Paul was not talking about Satan's "wrath" of Revelation 12:12 (KJV). Paul was pointing to God's cup of wrath poured out on the wicked on the last day of this world, upon the wicked.

The Pre-trib Rapture school likes to push the falsehood that 1 Thess.5:9 is about Satan's wrath during the coming tribulation. It is not.

I don't think so either. Also the tribulation is separate from God's wrath.

I would like your response to my statement about being killed and tortured during the Great  Tribulation is no different than Christians have been subjected to for centuries on account of their faith. Torture and horrible death has gone on for centuries and will continue.

Jaime

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 17:29:40That wasn't what I had in mind.  That's like a fringe theory - science fiction.

I don't believe the Wheat and Tares  to Israel only, but it DOES to the Kingdom of Heaven as it states in the parable itself, similar to the parable of the sower.

dpr

#26
Quote from: Jaime on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 17:32:54I would like your response to my statement about being killed and tortured during the Great  Tribulation is no different than Christians have been subjected to for centuries on account of their faith. Torture and horrible death has gone on for centuries and will continue.

The comparison mistake I'm talking about is with how some try to use the tribulations in the past as a way to try and say the future coming "great tribulation" is already past, or for some other time than the very end of this world.

The time of "great tribulation" that Jesus pointed to is specific to the time that the "abomination of desolation" for the end of this world is setup. That is the specific event for the end that Jesus linked the "great tribulation" to...

Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV


That "abomination of desolation" idol event set to happen in Jerusalem for the very end of this world is the hinge point for the coming "great tribulation". This hinge point is where many brethren are being deceived today about that future time.

It is common to apply the idea of torture and execution with that "great tribulation" time, especially if you go to a Pre-trib Rapture type church.

But many make the mistake of not really understanding per God's Word, just what that future 'tribulation' type will be.

When Apostle Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5 that "sudden destruction" will come upon those who will be saying, "Peace and safety", that is what kind of time the coming "great tribulation" will be, that is, for the deceived who will think the coming false-Messiah is Christ having returned. Yet that "sudden destruction" upon the deceived won't happen until the last day when Jesus is revealed.

Daniel 8 reveals the "king of fierce countenance" will destroy many using peace, NOT war. And per the KJV there, it says he will cause craft to prosper in his hand. This is actually seen in Revelation 11 with those of the nations rejoicing over the dead bodies of God's two witnesses, because of the plagues they brought upon them. It even says the nations will send each other gifts. So does that sound like all out killing, WWIII, and torture? No, of course not. It's about deception by the majority of the world, and that was Lord Jesus' main warning to His Church about the end time events, to not allow any man to deceive us.

Also when Jesus said we'd hear of wars and rumors of war, to not be troubled because those things must be, He then said, "But the end is not yet." What is the opposite of a time of war and rumors of war? A time of world peace is its opposite. Many brethren fail to think just a little bit by Jesus' indirect statement about peace there, and many pastors fail to quote that last phrase by Lord Jesus, so really they miss Lord Jesus' main Message about the end in that.

Now for us in that future tribulation, those of Christ's Church that stand faithful with Christ, refusing to bow to the coming false-Messiah in place of Lord Jesus, or his image, or take his mark, even the deceived of our own families will have us delivered up thinking they are helping us. That kind of thing is one of the events that makes the coming "great tribulation" different than past persecutions against the saints. This is what the following events are about...

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV


Not all of us that will be delivered up to give that future witness by The Holy Spirit will be killed. Not all the Church on earth will be delivered up either. Yet many of us will, just for refusing to bow to the coming false-Messiah and the "image of the beast" he will setup, just like in the days of Daniel.

Do you recall the Joel 2 prophecy that Apostle Peter quoted on Pentecost? The Joel 2 section he quoted is actually for this very event at the end, the delivering up of saints to give a Testimony for Christ against the beast by The Holy Spirit. That is when the true cloven tongue of Pentecost will manifest again, but to all the world this next time. And because of that event, it will signal Satan's defeat, because Jesus said what The Holy Spirit will give us to say, even the gainsayer will not be able to resist; and that is when Satan will determine to destroy Israel off the face of the earth, but will be when Jesus will step in to stop it with the battle of Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16 with the 7th Vial.


Jaime

#27
I have never ascribed to the pre-trib rapture. My point was I believe Christians will go through THAT tribulation in the endtimes just as Christians have always done, in the face of torture and horrible PHYSICAL death. AVOIDING THE SECOND death is the goal it seems to me. In my view the tribulation is not God's wrath. I believe we WILL be raptured  PRE-WRATH, but NOT pre-trib. I don't believe we will be spared tribulation just as Christians throughout history have not been spared tribulation in the form of torture and horrible death.

AND I am not a preterist, partial preterist or Amillennialist.

dpr

Quote from: Jaime on Sun Feb 25, 2024 - 06:12:45I have never ascribed to the pre-trib rapture. My point was I believe Christians will go through THAT tribulation in the endtimes just as Christians have always done, in the face of torture and horrible PHYSICAL death. AVOIDING THE SECOND death is the goal it seems to me. In my view the tribulation is not God's wrath. I believe we WILL be raptured  PRE-WRATH, but NOT pre-trib. I don't believe we will be spared tribulation just as Christians throughout history have not been spared tribulation in the form of torture and horrible death.

AND I am not a preterist, partial preterist or Amillennialist.

But I just don't agree with your view of the coming "great tribulation" involving torture and horrible death for everyone in Christ's Church. Persecutions yes, but not horrible death...

Luke 21:12-19
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
KJV


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