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The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel

Started by dpr, Wed Feb 21, 2024 - 13:50:14

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dpr

I'll cover a lot about the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel here directly from Bible Scripture. Many brethren in Christ have been wrongly subjected to many false fabrications against the real history about the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, and the reason they do that I believe is because of Satan's jealousy of God accomplishing the things He said He would do. That involves the history of the Ten Lost Tribes especially, which used to be a teaching in the Churches of Europe, but has fallen out of favor today because of ideas planted by the unawares crept into the Church (Jude 4).

1. Per 1 Kings 11, Solomon loved many strange women (meaning foreigners), and took wives of them, but allowed them to bring their idol worship in among the children of Israel. This God warned Solomon about twice, but Solomon did not listen. God then said He would 'rend' the kingdom from Solomon, but do it in the days of Solomon's son Rehoboam. It is very important to recall that God had ordained the tribe of Judah, and lineage of David, to be kings over Israel, and Solomon was a son of David that inherited David's throne. (1 Kings 11:1-12).

2. Solomon had setup Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim, as governor over the ten tribes of Israel that dwelt in the northern lands of Israel. Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin mostly dwelt in the southern portion of lands of Israel at that time. Solomon and Jeroboam had a falling out, so Jeroboam fled to Egypt.

The falling out between them was because of a prophecy that God's prophet Ahijah had given Jeroboam, that God would give him to be king over ten tribes of Israel, the "house of Israel" in the northern holy lands. Because of this, Solomon sought to kill Jeroboam (1 Kings 11:26-40). At the same time, God said He would given Solomon's son Rehoboam at Jerusalem, one tribe, for the sake of Jerusalem and His servant David (1 Kings 11:31-36).

3. When it was time to make Rehoboam (Solomon's son) king, all Israel was called to Shechem. Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim, who had fled to Egypt, heard of it, and they called for him to return from Egypt. Then Jeroboam and all Israel spoke to Rehoboam, and asked him to relieve his father Solomon's burden he had put upon the northern tribes. Eventually, Rehoboam then answered Jeroboam and the ten tribes harshly, saying he would increase his father's yoke put upon them. God had caused Rehoboam to say this, because He had said He would rend Israel before. (1 Kings 12:1-15).

4.  At this Jeroboam and the ten northern tribes of Israel departed to their tents in the north. King Rehoboam of Judah sent his rep over the tribute to the northern tribes and they stoned him. Rehoboam then fled back to Jerusalem. Then the northern ten tribes sent for Jeroboam of Ephraim and made him king over Israel like God had said through His prophet Ahijah (northern "kingdom of Israel" the ten northern tribes it would be called). (1 Kings 12:16-20).

This began the separation of old Israel into two separate houses and kingdoms. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin would be together at this time, in the southern lands of Judea-Jerusalem. They would be called the "house of Judah". The ten northern tribes under Jeroboam of Ephraim would then be called the "house of Israel", and Jeroboam would build Shechem in mount Ephraim in the north and dwell there. 1 Kings 12:20-25. This is when this separation of old Israel into two separate kingdoms would become the "two nations" idea of Ezekiel 37:19-22.

5.  Then Jeroboam, king of Israel, of the tribe of Ephraim, considered what would happen if the ten northern tribes went down to Jerusalem to worship, as was proper under that time of the old covenant. So Jeroboam instead made two gold calf idols in the north for the ten tribes to worship so they would not go down to Jerusalem and possibly join with Judah and Benjamin. Jeroboam then made common priests of the people, which prevented the Levites in the north from doing their priestly duties (1 Kings 12:26-33).

Per 2 Chronicles 11, the Levites among the northern ten tribes then left, and went south and joined with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin at Judea. A small remnant of the northern tribes also refused Jeroboam's calf idols and went south and joined with Judah and Benjamin. This is when the "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah", became made up of the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.

6.  Then there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam all their days (1 Kings 14:30). And Jeroboam as "king of Israel" over the ten northern tribe "kingdom of Israel" or "house of Israel", would reign from the city of Samaria in the northern holy land.

7.  Many years later, in the days of Hoshea, king of Israel over the northern ten tribe kingdom at Samaria, God would send the kings of Assyria upon the northern ten tribe kingdom. The king of Assyria would finally besiege Samaria for three years, and take all the northern ten tribes captive to Assyria and to the lands of the Medes. Only the 3-tribe "house of Judah" would remain in the holy land in the south (2 Kings 17:1-18, and 2 Kings 18).

After this, the ten northern tribes drop out of Bible history. The rest of the Book of 2 Kings 19 forward is only about the 3 tribe "kingdom of Judah", or "house of Judah" at Judea-Jerusalem. When the kings of Assyria removed all the ten northern tribes from the holy land, as was one their methods of conquering, they would exchange peoples in the land. They took peoples from five provinces in Babylon, and placed them there in the northern holy lands where the ten tribes had been. These foreigners would become the Samaritans.












Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Howdy.

I've omitted your points 1-6 below.  Everything there seems good to me.  Point 7 seems to contain some historical errors...

Quote from: dpr on Wed Feb 21, 2024 - 13:50:147.  Many years later, in the days of Hoshea, king of Israel over the northern ten tribe kingdom at Samaria, God would send the kings of Assyria upon the northern ten tribe kingdom. The king of Assyria would finally besiege Samaria for three years, and take all the northern ten tribes captive to Assyria and to the lands of the Medes. Only the 3-tribe "house of Judah" would remain in the holy land in the south (2 Kings 17:1-18, and 2 Kings 18).

Samaria was indeed besieged and captured, but Sargon II did not carry off "all 10 tribes" at this time, but rather only about 30,000 of the inhabitants of the city of Samaria itself.

From an inscription at Sargon II's palace of Khorsabad:

7 I besieged and occupied the town of Samaria, and took 27,280 of its inhabitants captive. I took from them 50 chariots, but left them the rest of their belongings. I placed my Lieutenants over them; I renewed the obligation imposed upon them by one of the Kings who preceded me.[8]

The vast majority of the House of Israel was not carried into captivity, but rather they were either killed by the Assyrians, or fled into diaspora in the surrounding countries.  The Assyrians impressed many of them as laborers and used them to build siege ramparts before ultimately building pyramids out of their skulls.

Quote from: dpr on Wed Feb 21, 2024 - 13:50:14After this, the ten northern tribes drop out of Bible history. The rest of the Book of 2 Kings 19 forward is only about the 3 tribe "kingdom of Judah", or "house of Judah" at Judea-Jerusalem. When the kings of Assyria removed all the ten northern tribes from the holy land, as was one their methods of conquering, they would exchange peoples in the land. They took peoples from five provinces in Babylon, and placed them there in the northern holy lands where the ten tribes had been. These foreigners would become the Samaritans.
The northern kingdom may not appear in Kings/Chronicles after its destruction, but it is still a major part of the books of prophecy.  The House of Israel has its own prophetic timeline, separate from Judah.  Examples:

Ezekiel 37 contains the "prophecy of dry bones" where Israel is shown to be dead, but it is prophesied that they will return to life, and their bones be covered in sinews and skin and they will live again.

In Hosea 1, God judges Israel that they will be "not a people" or "not my people" (depending on your translation) and destroyed.  Simultaneously, God proclaims mercy for the southern kingdom of Judah.  He immediately goes on to talk about Israel's numbers restored to be "as the sand of the sea," and that they will ultimately be re-united with Judah.

-Jarrod

dpr

#2
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Feb 21, 2024 - 15:09:35Howdy.

I've omitted your points 1-6 below.  Everything there seems good to me.  Point 7 seems to contain some historical errors...

Samaria was indeed besieged and captured, but Sargon II did not carry off "all 10 tribes" at this time, but rather only about 30,000 of the inhabitants of the city of Samaria itself.

I'm not sure where you are relying on your history from, but for me, God's Word as written takes precedence...

2 Kings 17:4-6
4 And the king of Assyria found conspiracy in Hoshea: for he had sent messengers to So king of Egypt, and brought no present to the king of Assyria, as he had done year by year: therefore the king of Assyria shut him up, and bound him in prison.

5 Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.

6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
KJV

2 Kings 17:18
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of His sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
KJV


So when God's Word says that there was none left (meaning the northern ten tribes), but that the tribe of Judah only, I tend to believe that as written, and not what some pagan king said. And I recognize that the kings of Assyria historically removed the ten tribes in stages.


QuoteThe northern kingdom may not appear in Kings/Chronicles after its destruction, but it is still a major part of the books of prophecy.  The House of Israel has its own prophetic timeline, separate from Judah.  Examples:

I of course never denied the above. I'm well aware that God's Word still has many prophecies about the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" in contrast to the "house of Judah" (Jews).

QuoteEzekiel 37 contains the "prophecy of dry bones" where Israel is shown to be dead, but it is prophesied that they will return to life, and their bones be covered in sinews and skin and they will live again.

Yes, but that is certainly not all the Ezekiel 37 prophecy, as that is to show a timeline for the future when that will happen, when God says there He will breath life back into them (Ezekiel 37:4-6). That also is the timing when God is describing the two symbolic sticks there put back together in final, with One King (put for Jesus Christ) over them all back in the holy land. And that is one of my points about the idea there of the "two nations" per Ezekiel 37:19-22, representing God putting back together in final the "house of Israel" (ten lost tribes) and the "house of Judah" (Jews) in a final restoration in the holy land, something that is definitely NOT happening today, because it requires Jesus' return.

QuoteIn Hosea 1, God judges Israel that they will be "not a people" or "not my people" (depending on your translation) and destroyed.  Simultaneously, God proclaims mercy for the southern kingdom of Judah.  He immediately goes on to talk about Israel's numbers restored to be "as the sand of the sea," and that they will ultimately be re-united with Judah.

Yet there is a lot more written there in Hosea about the ten tribes and their future, even what would happen to them linked to the New Covenant. And Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea to Gentile Romans in Romans 9, which places both believing Israel of the ten tribes and... believing Gentiles, together as one body. I wonder who that would point to per New Testament doctrine? To Christ's Church of course, and it's apparent that Apostle Paul understood about the scattering of the ten tribes to become the western foundation of Christ's Church along with believing Gentiles. It's really just about believing what God's Word points to as written and being careful to not believe a lot hype and leaven doctrines that go against His Word.


dpr

#3
The Book of Hosea is where God reveals what He would do to the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel", or "house of Israel", because of rebellion in false Baal worship against Him. But He also reveals how He would redeem them, and others along with them. So most of the Book of Hosea is addressing only the ten northern tribes of Israel, and only Judah sparsely, but more in the latter Chapters. Around 611 B.C., God would scatter the ten northern tribe "kingdom of Israel" out of the northern holy land, and leave the Jews of the "house of Judah" that dwelt in the southern holy lands.

Hos 1:1-5
1 The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.


Notice above the labels "kings of Judah" and "king of Israel". That's to reveal a time when old Israel was still split into two separate kingdoms by God's Hand, each kingdom with their own king (per 1 Kings 11 forward).


2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, "Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD."

3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.

4 And the LORD said unto him, "Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.

5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel."
KJV


God tells His prophet Hosea to go take a prostitute for a wife to represent the rebellion of idol worship by the ten northern tribes, and name his first son "Jezreel".

Jezreel is used in Hosea with 2 meanings, as a Homonym, one for God getting ready to scatter the northern ten tribe kingdom, and then another about His gathering of them in final. At this point, "Jezreel" is used to point to His getting ready to scatter the ten tribes "house of Israel" so they are no more a kingdom in the land.


Hos 1:6-9
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, "Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen."


Hosea's wife bears a daughter next, and God said to call her, "Lo-ruhamah", which means, 'not beloved', or 'not pitied', because He would no longer have mercy upon the ten tribe "house of Israel", but instead would "utterly take them away", scattering them out of the holy land.

But for the "house of Judah", the 3-tribe "kingdom of Judah" (Jews), that dwelt in the southern holy lands at Judea-Jerusalem, God said He would save them, and have mercy on them at this point in time. (See also 2 Kings 17:18).


8 Now when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.

9 Then said God, "Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not My people, and I will not be your God."
KJV


Hosea's wife then bare another son next, and God said to name him, "Lo-ammi", which means 'not My people', as God said He would not be their God. (In Jeremiah 3, God said He gave Israel, i.e., the northern ten tribe kingdom, a "bill of divorce".)


Hos 1:10-11
10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people', there it shall be said unto them, 'Ye are the sons of the living God.'
KJV



In verse 10 above, even though God is saying here He is going to scatter the ten northern tribes of the "kingdom of Israel", while leaving the "kingdom of Judah" in the land in His mercy. Yet still, God said the scattered ten tribes of "house of Israel" would be as many as the sands of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered.

Then especially important, God said that where He first called the ten tribes "Lo-Ammi" (not My people), there... it would be said to them, "Ye are the sons of the living God." Did you know that Apostle Paul quoted this passage to believing Roman Gentiles per Romans 9?



Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He saith also in Osee, 'I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.'
KJV



What in the world is Apostle Paul doing quoting that above passage to Gentiles, which God said to the ten tribes in the Book of Hosea? I won't hide what Paul was pointing to in that...

Apostle Paul included... believing Gentiles in that, "Ye are the sons of the living God" passage that God said to the ten tribes. So... that means... Christ's Church, because that is exactly who Apostle Paul was talking about in that Romans 9:24-26 Scripture. What then, do those Hosea 1:10-11 verses point to in final? They point to Christ's future Kingdom here on earth at His future return. And Hosea 1:11 is revealing the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) and the "house of Judah" (Jews), will in that future appoint the One Head (Jesus Christ) over them, back together in the holy land of promise, AND... believing Gentiles with them!



11 "Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel."
KJV



Above is the second usage of that word Jezreel, this time put for God's gathering of His saints of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles, under Jesus Christ, The "one head".

Afterall, per Revelation 21:16, the future new Jerusalem is to descend from Heaven, with its base upon this earth, but as a cube reaching 12,000 furlongs up into the sky (furlong = roughly 202 English yards, means rougly 1,500 miles high). So there should be plenty of room for both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles under Lord Jesus Christ.


Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 12:27:32I'm not sure where you are relying on your history from...
It was primary source material - an inscription made by the same Assyrians who besieged Samaria.

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 12:27:32So when God's Word says that there was none left (meaning the northern ten tribes), but that the tribe of Judah only, I tend to believe that as written, and not what some pagan king said. And I recognize that the kings of Assyria historically removed the ten tribes in stages.
Well... the Bible does record that tribe of Naphtali was carried off, prior to the capture of Samaria.

Nonetheless, the fact remains... it was not the practice of the day to re-locate entire nations.  Typically only the nobles and artisans of the country were "carried off."  We can see an example of this in the book of Daniel, when Judah went into captivity.

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 12:27:32I of course never denied the above. I'm well aware that God's Word still has many prophecies about the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" in contrast to the "house of Judah" (Jews).
Good.  It's sometimes hard to converse if you don't have some common beliefs.  We seem to have a pretty similar understanding of the Bible for the most part.  But it's more interesting to talk about the differences.

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 12:27:32Yes, but that is certainly not all the Ezekiel 37 prophecy, as that is to show a timeline for the future when that will happen, when God says there He will breath life back into them (Ezekiel 37:4-6). That also is the timing when God is describing the two symbolic sticks there put back together in final, with One King (put for Jesus Christ) over them all back in the holy land. And that is one of my points about the idea there of the "two nations" per Ezekiel 37:19-22, representing God putting back together in final the "house of Israel" (ten lost tribes) and the "house of Judah" (Jews) in a final restoration in the holy land...
So far so good.  The "death" of the House of Israel didn't require that every citizen was literally exterminated.  It only required that they were separated from their covenant relationship with God, and lost their identity as a nation.  A divorce, as Jeremiah said.  "Not My people."  Many today call this "spiritual death," although I find that to be a strange turn of phrase.

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 22, 2024 - 12:27:32...something that is definitely NOT happening today, because it requires Jesus' return.
Return?  I think what it required was Jesus first coming.

Haven't you read how Jesus traveled through Galilee, the Decapolis, Perea, Transjordan, Samaria - all the historical territories of the northern kingdom? Or that He specifically was looking for the 'lost sheep?'

Matt 15:24  [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Haven't you read how He baptized converts, metaphorically 'resurrecting' them?  And that He regarded the others as 'dead?'

Matt 8:22  But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

As I understand it, the resurrection of Israel was a large part of Jesus work on earth.  John 10:16 is a restatement of the prophecy of the joining together of the two sticks:

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This work is not un-started.  By baptizing, Jesus and His apostles began the work of (re?)adopting those who believe-like-Abraham. 

We are restored to our relationship with God and our identity as a particular people.  That is precisely the undoing of the 'death' that Ezekiel refers to.  Compare the bolded green bits.  This is the resurrection of dead Israel.

-Jarrod

dpr

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 09:55:11....

Return?  I think what it required was Jesus first coming.

Haven't you read how Jesus traveled through Galilee, the Decapolis, Perea, Transjordan, Samaria - all the historical territories of the northern kingdom? Or that He specifically was looking for the 'lost sheep?'

Matt 15:24  [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That's not how I understand what He was saying with that, or His venture into the northern areas of the holy land which the Assyrians had supplanted with foreigners from Babylon, and were known as the Samaritans. So I have a hard time agreeing with your speculations on that.

One of the things the kings of Assyria would do once they conquered a land was to remove the original peoples that lived there, and replace them with foreign peoples from other lands. And that is exactly what the king of Assyria did per Bible Scripture of 2 Kings 17:24 which says five peoples from five provinces in Babylon replaced the Israelites that were in the cities of Samaria.

Also, 2 Kings 17:18 says God removed Israel out of His sight, and that there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. So I prefer to believe God's Word as written. If secular historians write something different than the Scripture witness, I'm not going to believe them.

That idea that Jesus went north looking for ten tribe Israelites sounds more like an idea Jewish converts may have had, but even they well knew the ten northern tribes had been take captive to Assyria, and Judah would not have anything to do with the Samaritans that lived in the north.

Jesus being sent to the lost sheep of the "house of Israel" I understand to mean to be about where the ten tribes were scattered to and would accept The Gospel on the level of national scales, like Asia Minor and Europe.

When Jesus sent His 12 Apostles to preach The Gospel, notice He told them to NOT go into any of the regions in the north among Gentiles...

Matt 10:5-7
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."
KJV


I'm well aware how some Jewish scholars think that all the ten lost tribes of Israel returned, and some Jewish scholars believe they are gone forever, and other Jewish scholars which keep to God's future prophecies about their future return. I am not one who believes today's state of Israel in the middle east represents all 12 tribes of Israel having returned. Thinking that would be to go against many future prophecies in God's Word about the future restoration when Jesus returns. And that is why I commented further on what is written in the Ezekiel 37 chapter about that future restoration instead of going off on some tangent about the resurrection, which some people like to do instead of mentioning the latter prophecies about the future restoration of the two 'houses' when Jesus returns.

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: dpr on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 12:16:12That's not how I understand what He was saying with that, or His venture into the northern areas of the holy land which the Assyrians had supplanted with foreigners from Babylon, and were known as the Samaritans. So I have a hard time agreeing with your speculations on that.

One of the things the kings of Assyria would do once they conquered a land was to remove the original peoples that lived there, and replace them with foreign peoples from other lands. And that is exactly what the king of Assyria did per Bible Scripture of 2 Kings 17:24 which says five peoples from five provinces in Babylon replaced the Israelites that were in the cities of Samaria.

Also, 2 Kings 17:18 says God removed Israel out of His sight, and that there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. So I prefer to believe God's Word as written. If secular historians write something different than the Scripture witness, I'm not going to believe them.

That idea that Jesus went north looking for ten tribe Israelites sounds more like an idea Jewish converts may have had, but even they well knew the ten northern tribes had been take captive to Assyria, and Judah would not have anything to do with the Samaritans that lived in the north.

Jesus being sent to the lost sheep of the "house of Israel" I understand to mean to be about where the ten tribes were scattered to and would accept The Gospel on the level of national scales, like Asia Minor and Europe.

When Jesus sent His 12 Apostles to preach The Gospel, notice He told them to NOT go into any of the regions in the north among Gentiles...

Matt 10:5-7
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."
KJV


I'm well aware how some Jewish scholars think that all the ten lost tribes of Israel returned, and some Jewish scholars believe they are gone forever, and other Jewish scholars which keep to God's future prophecies about their future return. I am not one who believes today's state of Israel in the middle east represents all 12 tribes of Israel having returned. Thinking that would be to go against many future prophecies in God's Word about the future restoration when Jesus returns. And that is why I commented further on what is written in the Ezekiel 37 chapter about that future restoration instead of going off on some tangent about the resurrection, which some people like to do instead of mentioning the latter prophecies about the future restoration of the two 'houses' when Jesus returns.
I'm not sure that physical descent counts for much. 

Jesus' teaching on this seems to be "you can tell who is a child of Abraham by their behavior." (See John 8-10)  Paul is openly hostile to genealogies, and also proclaims the same teaching as Jesus - the sons of Abraham are those believe like Abraham.

Abraham was promised to become a "father of nations" (i.e of Gentiles) and the fulfillment of this promise is found in the adoption of converts into Israel.  The promised resurrection of dead Israel is also the fulfillment of Abraham's covenant promise.

dpr

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 12:33:23I'm not sure that physical descent counts for much. 

Surely you're not now trying to bring in ideas like Israelites of the seed are saved simply for being born of the seed of Israel? God's Word says everyone must bow to Him through His Son Jesus Christ, and that of course includes Israelites of the seed.

But does that mean Israelites born of the seed are no longer important in God's eyes? God forbid no! And our Heavenly Father himself said so, per Jeremiah 31. Those who refuse Christ, of either the seed of Israel or the Gentiles will simply be, cut off from His Salvation.

It's like Apostle Paul said in Romans 11, that God's election of the seed is without repentance, He won't go back on what He promised them. The problem some have with not being able to spiritually grasp that is how they confuse believers of the seed of Israel with the unbelieving orthodox Jews of Judaism. God's promise to gather the ten tribe house of Israel in final is still expecting today (Amos 9:9). Moreover, in Rev.7 when Christ pointed to the 144,000, that is about literal Israelites of the seed, 12,000 out of each tribe mentioned there it says. The "great multitude" in that chapter represents the believing Gentiles.


Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: dpr on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 13:06:06Surely you're not now trying to bring in ideas like Israelites of the seed are saved simply for being born of the seed of Israel?
Literally the opposite of what I said.

dpr

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 23, 2024 - 18:27:50Literally the opposite of what I said.

Sorry, but when someone says things like you did, that you weren't sure that physical descent counts for much, that suggests to me that God having chosen the physical 'seed' of Israel is not that important.

I'm not Jewish (that I know of), so I'm not trying to claim one born of the 'seed' is above anyone else. It's simply that God chose the 'seed' of Israel for a specific purpose, and what's kind of funny, His purpose is one that orthodox unbelieving Jews reject, and that is, care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ for all... nations. God put a major responsibility upon the chosen 'seed', not exalted status, but in 'service' for the nations, as a nation of priests.

This point is not often understood by Churches still on the "milk". It involves God's Birthright which He began through His Promise by Faith through Abraham. Certain Blessings were included within that Birthright, and care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ was one of them, for that Promise by Faith which Abraham believed, and God counted to him as righteousness, is the same Faith that we have believed per The Gospel (see Romans 4 and Galatians 3 by Apostle Paul).

So did that all stop with Abraham, and just became some spiritualization floating in the clouds until Jesus's 1st coming? No, it continued to Abraham's son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob. And Jacob was given the new name ISRAEL to represent God's Birthright Blessings with that Gospel of Faith on Christ Jesus. God hid the majority of His chosen seed of the ten tribes until it was time for His Birthright to manifest among them, along with believing Gentiles, as Christ's Church. While the majority of Israelites of the ten tribes were being hidden, under new names and customs in different lands, the Jews of the "house of Judah" 3 tribes that still kept their old heritages as part of Israel began claiming they only... now represented God's Israel, as many of them still try to do to this day.

I mean, it's kind of sickening, because so many ten lost tribe Israelites in today's Christian Church that have ancestors of the scattered ten tribes buy into the Jew's propaganda that only the Jews today represent the chosen seed of the children of Israel, when that is not true. Why do I say this? Because God's Birthright included The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it is the scattered ten tribe "house of Israel" that migrated mainly to the west which have manifested that Birthright among the nations historically and today, Great Britain actually becoming the first nation to accept The Gospel on a national scale. The rest of the European nations would then follow suit, a type of miracle, yet Bible prophecy. And the spreading of that was not just a chance thing, but God used His physical chosen seed of Israel, of all 12 scattered tribes.


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