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Giants

Started by Amo, Sat May 11, 2019 - 12:21:57

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3 Resurrections

Quote from: Jaime on Sun Apr 21, 2024 - 19:54:28Interesting for sure. I was just addressing 3R's comment anout what the translated text says. I would have given him grace if he had said it "should have been translated thus and and so." But no present translations says "became."

Just doing a quick search online tonight concerning the Genesis 1:2 phrase in the original Hebrew.

Here is a comparison of the Hebrew term used in two separate cases.  In Genesis 19:26, we have "But his wife looked back behind him, and she became (hayeta) a pillar of salt."

And here again in Genesis 1:2 (KJV) there is the same verb used again.  "And the earth was (hayeta) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep..."

Question:  Why is it necessary to translate this "hayeta" Hebrew term as "became" when scripture mentions Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt, but it is not necessary to translate it that way in Genesis 1:2? 

This article I just read mentioned three versions which all have the earth "becoming" formless and void... 

the Chaldee Version ("But the earth had become desert and empty"),
the Aramaic Version ("And the earth had become ruined and uninhabited"),
and the Septuagint Version ("But the earth had become unfurnished and empty")

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Jaime on Sun Apr 21, 2024 - 20:21:56I agree, but again 3Rs claimed the text said became, it didn't, but i can entertain a mistranslation, though it is kinda frustrating being the 2nd sentence in the entire story. The potential of totally game changing translation errors seem quite likely. Similar to the ages of Shem's descendants being 100 years off on every one of the descendents and ON PURPOSE.

I've posted this before:

Lots of good information in this.

But he still assumes the scope of the flood to be global.  If he hadn't, he might have noticed that the date he sets for the flood - 3000 BC - aligns almost perfectly with the date archaeologists give to the Shurappak flood (2900 BC).

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Sun Apr 21, 2024 - 20:52:50Just doing a quick search online tonight concerning the Genesis 1:2 phrase in the original Hebrew.

Here is a comparison of the Hebrew term used in two separate cases.  In Genesis 19:26, we have "But his wife looked back behind him, and she became (hayeta) a pillar of salt."

And here again in Genesis 1:2 (KJV) there is the same verb used again.  "And the earth was (hayeta) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep..."

Question:  Why is it necessary to translate this "hayeta" Hebrew term as "became" when scripture mentions Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt, but it is not necessary to translate it that way in Genesis 1:2? 

This article I just read mentioned three versions which all have the earth "becoming" formless and void... 

the Chaldee Version ("But the earth had become desert and empty"),
the Aramaic Version ("And the earth had become ruined and uninhabited"),
and the Septuagint Version ("But the earth had become unfurnished and empty")
The best you can do with that argument is to prove ambiguity.

The problem is in the translation of verse 1.  See the link I posted on the last page showing a different translation there...

At the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and earth, the earth was formless and void...

Rella

Quote from: Amo on Thu Feb 29, 2024 - 08:01:40https://ia803106.us.archive.org/16/items/tgwra/The%20Ancient%20Giants%20Who%20Ruled%20America%20by%20Richard%20J.%20Dewhurst%20%282014%29.pdf

THE ANCIENT GIANTS WHO RULED AMERICA

I am placing the following link here as it is of the same subject matter as THE ANCIENT GIANTS WHO RULED AMERICA..
IOW Giants.

I only am including this for comparason sake and not as dogmatic proof... The main reason is that the author of this... who attached it at the end of https://ia601001.us.archive.org/19/items/TheCompleteBookOfEnochStandardEnglishVersionJayWinter/The%20Complete%20Book%20of%20Enoch%2C%20Standard%20English%20Version%20-%20Jay%20Winter.pdf

THE COMPLETE BOOK OF ENOCH
Standard English Version

by Dr. Jay Winter , and while it has a Library of Congress
notation... it seems to be amiss in some of his translation/organization.

But because this has been a hotly debated subject for a very long while... it is worth consideration, from a differing view.

It is best to read from the link, but I know most will not bother.... Believe or not.... one day we shall all know the truth.

Starting at page 130 at the above link.... I will copy in full, as I can.

The Dead Sea Scrolls

This chart showing a listing of what scrolls were found in the Qumran caves isimportant to note in regards to the texts found therein as they include an associated body of work that is one in the same.

 Parts of the Book of Giants were found regarding Enoch in the caves as well.
It would appear that whoever
the scribe or group of people who stored away these scrolls, intended them for
safe keeping as they represent a body of knowledge that has, curiously enough,
been largely fought since their inception. When a researcher gets to a certain
point they tend to realize that some information and studies surpass the
understanding of the intellect alone but rather sequesters the heart to
comprehend such mysteries of which the mind is unwilling.

(See page 131 in the link for the chart. It would not download to copy)

The Book of the Giants
The Book of the Giants was published in not less than six or seven languages.

From this point to page 144 is a lot of technical info, so
starting again at page 144)


RECONSTRUCTED SUMMARY OF THE
BOOK OF GIANTS

CHAPTER ONE: The Watchers are grieved over the sins of mankind, and
petition God to let them descend to the earth to teach the sons of men
righteousness and to rebuke them. God grants their petition. Azazel is sent to
prepare the way for the Watchers. Azazel prepares the way, and the Watchers
descend and they begin to teach them righteousness and justice. Enoch is chosen
by the Watchers to serve as a mediator between men and the Watchers.

CHAPTER TWO: The daughters of men lust after the attractive Watchers, and
seduce them; Azazel, with Shemhazah's help, instigates the fall of the 200
Watchers and their followers. The Watchers fall from their glorious nature, and
become bound to fleshly bodies as a consequence of their joining sexually to
flesh. They begin to reveal to their wives heavenly and earthly secrets.

CHAPTER THREE: The Watchers have their own families with humans and
also with animals, and those that were defiled by them give birth to Giants.
These Giants begin to grow to massive sizes, and become full of greed and
corruption. They kill many dragons and the sons of Cain worship them for
protecting them. The children of Cain are no longer able to sustain the Giants
with their offerings of vegtables and grain so the Giants turn on them and kill
them and begin to eat them. The Giants develop a taste for blood and begin
eating any moving thing including each other. The Watchers teach some of the
secrets they were appointed over to keep from the sons of men. The Giants
imitate the sins of their fathers, and take for themselves wives and animal mates,
and they beget Naphil and Eliyo. God seeing all this wickedness, sends Enoch to
declare to Shemhazah and the fallen Watchers that they will be soon punished
for causing the earth to be corrupted.

CHAPTER FOUR: Enoch is sent by the righteous Watchers to rebuke the fallen
Watchers and to declare to them their doom. He comes to Azazel first and
condemns him as the principal sinner amongst the fallen Watchers. He then
summons Mahaway to him and has him gather all the Watchers for his message.
Enoch enters the assembly of the fallen Watchers, and gives them the message of
doom. They weep and lament and beg Enoch to present to God their petition for
mercy and a second chance - to restore them to their former glory and that their
sons might have eternal life. They required a messenger to talk to God because
God had since stopped talking to them after their transgression. Enoch hears
their case and tells them he will talk to God on their behalf.

CHAPTER FIVE: Enoch, having written the petition of the fallen Watchers and
discussing it with God, receives a vision from God as a response, and Enoch
writes the vision for the fallen Watchers in a book and gives the book to them.
Enoch declares to them they will not be forgiven, and describes for them his
ascent into the presence of God, where he was given a message for them.

CHAPTER SIX: Enoch received from God an answer for the fallen Watchers: he
is told to tell them why they were not given permission to have sex, and what
their punishment is because of it, and he foretells unto them the miserable doom
and fate of the offspring of the fallen Watchers, and foretells to them that they
will become evil spirits and will not have eternal life but that their years will be
no more than 500. After hearing this the fallen Watchers and their Giant sons
take up stones to throw at Enoch but the holy Watchers shield Enoch from their
deadly blows and lift Enoch up into the heavens to escape their earthly wrath
against Enoch the messenger. (This is perhaps the first time that anyone ever
attempted to "kill the messenger.")

CHAPTER SEVEN: Hobabesh kidnaps another Giant's wife, and starts a war
amongst the Giants. When the war was ending, one of Ohyah's companions was
killed by Mahaway. Ohyah mourns with his father Shemhazah about his friend,
and they curse Mahaway. Mahaway defends himself, appealing to the words of
his father Baraqel as justification. Ohyah gets angry and attempts to kill
Mahaway, but Gilgamesh and the other Giants prevent Ohyah from doing so,
and they ward off Ohyah's murderous intentions. (This is where we learn about
Gilgamesh slaying dragons, or dinosaurs and being a hero for the normal sized
men of that time.)

CHAPTER EIGHT: Gilgamesh has a dream, but interprets it as indicating the
Giants will not be punished. The Giants celebrate but aren't entirely convinced,
and subsequent to this, Ohyah and Hahyah have dreams of their own. They seek
the interpretation of the dreams, but none of the Giants can declare to them what
the meaning of their dreams are, so the Giants have Mahaway go to Enoch in
order to learn from him the meaning of the dreams and to learn what the fate of
the Giants will be. Mahaway flies to Enoch, and Enoch greets Mahaway, and
Mahaway explains why he came, and Enoch proceeds to give Mahaway the
answer, and he writes it down in a tablet, and gives a second tablet as well to
Mahaway intended for Shemhazah and the Watchers, and he sends Mahaway
back to the Giants with the two tablets.

CHAPTER NINE: Mahaway flies back to the Giants with the two tablets. And
Mahaway tells them of his journey to Enoch and of Enoch saving his life, and
tells them that Enoch had given him two tablets and revealed everything they
had wanted to know form him. The first tablet is read. The Giants discuss the
contents of the first tablet after it is finished being read, and realize they are
doomed, and they lament over their miserable fate. They then have the second
tablet read. Enoch tells
Shemhazah that he and the other fallen Watchers will soon be bound, but that the
Giants should repent and pray, for they still have a chance to benefit from
reformation of their lives.

CHAPTER TEN: Shemhazah urges his two sons Ohyah and Hahyah to reform
their lives in the hopes that they will be yet given mercy. Ohyah and Hahyah
listen to the advice of Shemhazah and attempt to convince the Giants to reform
themselves, teaching them through proverbs where true success is found. The
Giants seek to reform their lives. Enoch is sent to declare to the Watchers that
within 120 years, they would all be bound in a dark prison of punishment for
their sins, and that their sons would all be destroyed from off the face of the
earth. Noah begins to build the Ark. Around this time, only Azazel is bound.

CHAPTER ELEVEN: The Giants lament over Azazel being bound, and then
they and the Watchers, seeing that they were not bound or destroyed vaunted
themselves. When this happened, Gabriel the archangel was sent to incite the
Giants to commit civil war against themselves and their offspring, and they all
began to kill each other, and the Watchers beheld the destruction of their
families. When the war of the Giants ends with few survivors, all of the fallen
Watchers are subsequently bound by the angels into the dark prison of
punishment.

CHAPTER TWELVE: Noah goes into the Ark, and the flood comes, and begins
to kill all life, but not all the Giants are killed by the flood. In order to fix this,
Yehuweh sends the Leviathan, and the Leviathan begins to kill all the Giants and
their sons who survived. Ohyah alone survives the attacks of the Leviathan, and
kills the Leviathan. The archangel Raphael is sent by Yehuweh in order to punish
Ohyah for killing the Leviathan, and to finally restore the earth to purity Ohyah
is killed and bound in the dark prison of punishment with the fallen Watchers.
The flood being over, and the Giants and their sons still remaining on the earth
without bodies, become evil spirits, and are given a law by an angel of Yehuweh
how they are to live if they want to avoid being sent to the dark prison of
punishment that the Watchers were sent to. And this explains how the Nephilim
came to be on the earth after the flood.


Evidence of Giants (starts on page 148 of the link) (pictures will not copy for me)

Fossilized remains of giant human skeletons have been found all around the
world. Ranging in size, many of them have been recovered with giant weapons,
armor, and strange artifacts dubbed OOPARTS (Out of Place Artifacts). The
current worldview model for humanity doesn't support the existence of a giant
human race (according to evolution). These enormous ancient human beings
were worshipped throughout various world religions of which tell of many of
them slaying dragons. It is important to note that the term "dragon" was replaced
by the word "dinosaur" in 1871 by Sir. Edward Owen. Hence, any reference in
ancient literature to dragons, is a reference to dinosaurs according to the
ontology of the word change associations involved. The following is a brief
report of recovered giant fossilized human remains of which most end up in
private collections of the elite of society save a few who have found their way to
museums around the world. Although in recent years many of these museums
have been selling these remains to private collectors for large sums of money
their discoveries remain documented and undisputed by reasonable scholars
without hidden agendas. Take a look at the evidence and decide for yourself if
there were "Giants on the earth in those days." - Genesis 6:4
Perhaps the best place to start off with providing evidence of the existence of
giant human beings is Crete. Crete was once known in old times as Arcadia. The
Greek historian Herodotus had written about another historian, Eustathius who
had said that Arcadia was once called Gigantis, or "The Land of Giants,"
because of the giants who had formerly lived there. It was also known as the
Greek Garden of Eden. This connection between Arcadia, giants, and to the
Garden of Eden makes sense, because the 4th century Roman author Servius in
his Commentary on the Eneid says, that the Arcadians often reached the age of
300 years.—Grotius.

( see link for map page 149)

Several of the world's most influential authors all throughout history verify these
accounts of giants, gods, and the island of Crete. People such as Diodorus
Siculus, Pliny, Strabo, Plutarch, and Plato, just to name a few. In addition to
these historical accounts by some of the world's most trusted authorities, there is
also the science with real life giant bones that have been found on Crete. In fact,
the largest bones that have ever been found were discovered on this very same
island, which may prove this was truly the home or the Land of Giants.

During the Cretan war from 205–200 BC a massive giant skeleton was
discovered on the island. This giant was measured at the length of thirtythree cubits, which equates to nearly 42 feet. The Roman Lucius Flaccus was
a notable eye witness to the gigantic bones, and the Greek writer under Roman
Emperor Hadrian, Phlegon of Tralles also mentions the discovery of several
giant skeletons. In the included chart of giant fossilized remains findings around
the world features the 36 foot skeleton found by the Carthaginians.
In the The Geography of Strabo, Volume 1 By Strabo, he writes about these
giants that were discovered in city founded by the biblical Corinthians who used
to reside in the modern day island of Crete;
"Somewhere in this neighbourhood is the mountain Bermius,2 which was
formerly in the possession of the Briges, a Thracian nation, some of whom
passed over to Asia and were called by another name, Phrygians (Phryges). After
Thessalonica follows the remaining part of the Therman Gulf, extending to
Canastneum. This is a promontory of a peninsula form, and is opposite to
Magnesia. Pallene is the name of the peninsula. It has an isthmus 5 stadia in width, with a ditch cut across it. There is a city on the peninsula, formerly called
Potidsna, founded by the Corinthians, but afterwards it was called Cassandria,
from king Cassander, who restored it after it was demolished. It is a circuit of
570 stadia round the peninsula by sea. Here giants were said to have lived, and
the region to have been called Phlegra. Some consider this to be a mere
fable, but others, with greater probability on their side, see implied in it the
existence of a barbarous and lawless race of people who once occupied the
country, but who were destroyed by Hercules on his return home, after the
capture of Troy. Here also the Trojan women are said to have committed the
destructive act of burning the ships, to avoid becoming the slaves of their
captors' wives."
There are more stories and eyewitness accounts of giant people and bones being
found on the island of Crete, than anywhere in the world as this information is
current. In addition to the eyewitness accounts and bones that have been found
here that help verify this history with some science, there is more scientific
evidence in the form of the tools that these giant people had used. Tools such as
the massive double headed axes that have been found in Crete. These axes are
said to be from up to 1700 years before Christ and were also the main religious
symbol of the ancient Cretans. They date to the Second Palace and Post-Palace
periods (1700 - 1300 BC)". The Minoan name for the double axe is "labrys",
thus the word labyrinth may originally have meant the "House of the Double
Axe," an ancient reference to the invention of the double axe which is attributed
to giants.
This biblical story may give us a clue as to what eventually had happened to
these giants from Crete:
The sons of Joseph were authorized to invade the "Land of the Giants" and Og,
the king of Bashan, and the last sovereign of the Ashtoreth dynasty, encountered
Moses at Edrei, where he fell "with his sons, and all his people, until there was
none left alive, and they (the Israelites) possessed the land," Numbers. xxi. 33,
34, 35.

Deuteronomy 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the
Moabites call them Emims.
Deuteronomy 3:13 And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of
Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all
Bashan, which was called the land of giants.
Joshua 12:4 And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which was of the remnant
of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,
Joshua 13:12 All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and
in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses
smite, and cast them out.

Fossilized human footprints have also been discovered in Sweden, and in
Mexico. Giant skeletons have been discovered throughout the United States and
giant fossilized remains are not solely exclusive to the lands of Crete but rather
world-wide. Photos of giants from recent times are all a part of important natural
history. An article from Strand magazine (December,1895) reprinted in "Traces
of the Elder Faiths" of Ireland by W.G. Wood-Martin mentions this fossilized
giant discovered during mining operations in County Antrim, Ireland:
"Pre-eminent among the most extraordinary articles ever held by a railway
company is the fossilized Irish giant, which is at this moment lying at the
London and North-Western Railway Company's Broad street goods depot, and a
photograph of which is reproduced here. . . This monstrous figure is reputed to
have been dug up by a Mr. Dyer whilst prospecting for iron ore in County
Antrim. The principal measurements are: entire length, 12ft. 2in.; girth of chest,
6ft. 6in.; and length of arms, 4ft. 6in. There are six toes on the right foot. The
gross weight is 2 tons; 15cwt.; so that it took half a dozen men and a powerful
crane to place this article of lost property in position for the Strand magazine
photographer to do her work."
The below is the picture of the giant published in Strand Magazine 1895: (see link)
 
Near Crittenden, Arizona, in 1891, workmen excavating for a commercial
building came upon a huge stone sarcophagus eight feet below the surface. The
contractor called in expert help, and the sarcophagus was opened to reveal a
granite mummy case which had once held the body of a human being more than
twelve feet tall - a human with six toes, according to the carving of the case. But
the body had been buried so many thousands of years that it had long since
turned to dust. Just another silent witness to the truth of Genesis, which tells us
that there were giants on the earth in those days, the excavation of over a dozen
skeletons 8 to 12 feet tall, around the world shocked archaeologists.
If you have already read through the Book of Giants then you may understand
why on so many Sumerian artifacts that we find depictions of giant humans
being served by lesser humans in stature. As the Book of Enoch testifies, and as
other texts of the same body of knowledge tell us, some men worshipped these
giants only to have them eventually turn on them.

The associated text in the Book of Giants that pertains to this particular
Sumerian tablet is the following:
". . . they took and imprisoned all the helpers that were in the heavens. And the
angels themselves descended from the heaven to the earth. And (when) the
two hundred demons saw those angels, they were much afraid and worried.
They assumed the shape of men and hid themselves. Thereupon the angels
forcibly removed the men from the demons, (10) laid them aside, and put
watchers over them. . . . the giants . . . . were sons . . . with each other in bodily
union . . . . with each other self- . . . . and the . . . . that had been born to them,
they forcibly removed them from the demons. And they led one half of them
(20) eastwards, and the other half westwards, on the skirts of four huge
mountains, towards the foot of the Sumeru mountain, into thirty-two towns
which the Living Spirit had prepared for them in the beginning. And one calls
(that place) Aryān-waižan. And those men are (>or: were) . . . . in the first arts
and crafts. (30) . . . . they made . . . the angels . . . and to the demons . . they went
to fight. And those two hundred demons fought a hard battle with the four
angels, until the angels used fire, naphtha, and brimstone. . ." - Book of Giants -
Sogdian Manuscript
Of such cities mentioned in the Book of Giants other authorities on the antiquities of history make note:
Cristoforo Buondelmonti (1386-1430) was an Italian monk, traveler, and a
pioneer in promoting first-hand knowledge of Greece and its antiquities, who
had written about a Cretan city named Sarandopolis that was formerly
inhabited by giants, and where modern eparkhia of Setia derived its name.
The San Diego Giant
The mummy remains of a giant were unearthed in a cave near San Diego,
California. It was discovered by a party of prospectors, and was displayed at the
Atlantic exposition while, a number of Smithsonian scientists were there. They
asked permission to examine it and when consent was given applied their tapes
and found that it measured eight feet four inches from crown to heel. The
body lied rest in a ten foot coffin. The exhibitor agreed to sell it for $500 to the
Smithsonian of which sold it in more recent days to an "unknown private
collector." The following photo is the San Diego Giant: (see link)

In terms of the life spans of the giants we find that it was appointed to them 500
years to live:
Enoch 4:12 And to Gabriel said the Lord, "Proceed against the bastards and the
reprobates, and against the children of fornication and destroy the children of the
Watchers from amongst men. Send them one against the other that they may
destroy each other in battle, for length of days shall they not have. And no
request that they make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf;
for they hope to live an eternal life, and that each one of them will live five
hundred years." - Enoch Book 1: Watchers Ch.4:12

Notice how that is specific to a definite degree? Well it would seem that their
days were numbered as a curse and that perhaps they couldn't die until 500 years
had been allotted to them. Keep in mind that God was not pleased at all with that
the fallen angels had done and was using this as a testament against them for
breaking His laws. They wanted their giant sons to have the eternal life like they
had but God denied their plea for this. Although the exact contents of the
petition the fallen angels had Enoch deliver to God is not known this verse
appears to be a logical response to one of the things the fallen must have
included in it regarding their sons length of life.
Furthermore, in regards to their hybrid status (half man, half angel) of existence
we are encountered with the terms and conditions of their afterlife as the Book of
the Words of Righteousness tells us:
Enoch 5:28 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh,
shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling.
Enoch 5:29 Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are
born from men and from the Watchers is their beginning and primal origin;
they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called.
Enoch 5:30 And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do
battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble. They take no
food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offences.
Not having souls, once the giants had died they became roaming spirits of the
earth. Being able to inhabit the bodies of men and women, animals, and other
"forms." Only when reading through the Testament of Solomon do we find
evidence of these evil spirits residing on earth until the final judgement.
Solomon 1:70. And there came before my face another enslaved spirit, having
obscurely the form of a man, with gleaming eyes, and bearing in his hand a
blade. And I asked: "Who art thou?" But he answered: "I am a lascivious spirit,
engendered of a giant man who died in the massacre in the time of the giants." I
said to him: "Tell me what thou art employed upon earth, and where thou hast
thy dwelling

Closing notes and my own personal observations:
Being a former evolutionist (macro), finding about OOPARTS and fossilized
giant human beings around the world compelled me to look for answers outside
the modern scientific religion and into the accounts of historians, scribes, and the
body of knowledge of the divine. The earth and its artifacts seem to testify to its
own past so long as we pay attention to the ancient reporters who so diligently
made the happenings of ancient times known to us through the preservation of
their observations. The more one goes looking for evidence pertaining to giants,
the more one finds. The bulk of information pertaining to these giants seems to
be clustered on the body of biblical knowledge of which no other codex contains
more references or information about. This mystery itself seems best solved by
pouring over the evidence with diligent study performed by reading with not the
eyes but rather the heart.

Texas Conservative

The Ancient Giants in America?  Were these said "giants" the ones that were based in New York, or the ones based around modern day San Francisco?

Rella

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Apr 22, 2024 - 07:34:21The Ancient Giants in America?  Were these said "giants" the ones that were based in New York, or the ones based around modern day San Francisco?

No idea. My bloodline does not trace back that far.

Jaime

#531
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Sun Apr 21, 2024 - 21:18:17Lots of good information in this.

But he still assumes the scope of the flood to be global.  If he hadn't, he might have noticed that the date he sets for the flood - 3000 BC - aligns almost perfectly with the date archaeologists give to the Shurappak flood (2900 BC).

The flood narrative is distantly second to the narrative of the purposely changed ages of Seth's descendants by the Masoretic scribes as well as the REASON. There's most often a motive for such things. To me the flood question in the title is an eye grabber not the most important thing addressed. I am a proponent of the flood covering the entire earth, but that is not the reason I posted this video. The reason is the masoretic revision of the ages of Seth's descendants.

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Rella on Mon Apr 22, 2024 - 08:57:21No idea. My bloodline does not trace back that far.
Those are sports-ball teams he's talking bout.

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Jaime on Mon Apr 22, 2024 - 10:10:26The flood narrative is distantly second to the narrative of the purposely changed ages of Seth's descendants by the Masoretic scribes as well as the REASON. There's most often a motive for such things. To me the flood question in the title is an eye grabber not the most important thing addressed. I am a proponent of the flood covering the entire earth, but that is not the reason I posted this video. The reason is the masoretic revision of the ages of Seth's descendants.
In that case... the video does a good job.

If you're a Bible student, it's probably important to understand that the Masoretes held an anti-Christian bias, and that they monkeyed around with the text.

Rella

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Apr 22, 2024 - 10:52:24Those are sports-ball teams he's talking bout.

Jarrod... I know.

That held not relevance to the Enoc tale then did my comment.

TC brough it basically current and as we are talking about long before the world wide flood I simply was, once again
jesting to take it back there.

Obviously you have trouble with how I say things....

Sorry.. Ill go away for a while again

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Rella on Mon Apr 22, 2024 - 13:53:44Jarrod... I know.

That held not relevance to the Enoc tale then did my comment.

TC brough it basically current and as we are talking about long before the world wide flood I simply was, once again
jesting to take it back there.

Obviously you have trouble with how I say things....

Sorry.. Ill go away for a while again
No problem.  Sarcasm often doesn't hit the mark in a written medium.

Amo

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Sun Apr 21, 2024 - 17:59:17Rella, in both of these Hebrews texts, the word "worlds" (plural) should be "AGES" (aionas) as in the YLT and other literal versions. 

But even though these two Hebrews verses can't be used as proof texts for pre-Adamic  inhabitants of this planet, I believe Genesis 1:2 can.  The original languages indicate that "the world BECAME without form and void...", as if God had used this globe for other purposes before Creation week, and obliterated the conditions of that world (or even a series of other civilizations) to repurpose this planet for humanity's use.

In other words, I believe it is possible that we could be occupying an extremely ancient planet which was being renovated during Creation week.  This would explain the apparent difference between the roughly 6,000-year history of mankind on this planet and the dates which are given to the planet's material elements themselves.

As is always the case, the context of what is being said or discussed, is often the best determinant regarding proper interpretation or application of translation. It seems obvious to me, concerning the context of Heb 1, that worlds is the proper translation which fits the context. Not ages.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

And again -

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

In the King James version in any case, the word under examination was translated as ages only twice. Where it seems to fit the context well.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:


Most versions translate the verse under examination correctly as worlds and or universe, which of course includes all the worlds within it. Not ages.

2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed Heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,(KJ21)

2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;(ASV)

2 [But] in the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order].(AMPC)

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;(BRG)

2 In these final days, though, he spoke to us through a Son. God made his Son the heir of everything and created the world through him.(CEB)

2 at the end of these days has spoken to us in [the person of the] Son, whom he has established heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;(DARBY)

2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world.(DRA)

 2 And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things.(ERV)

2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.(ESV)

2 [d]Whom he hath made [e]heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds,(GNV)

2 But now in these last days God has spoken to us through ·his Son [or a son; 1:3]. God has ·chosen [appointed] his Son to ·own [be heir/inheritor of] all things, and through him he made the ·world [universe; ages; C comprising both space and time; John 1:3].(EXB)

2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;(NKJV)

2 at the last in these days he hath spoken to us by the Son; whom he hath ordained heir of all things, and by whom he made the worlds.(WYC)

2  But now at last, God sent his Son to bring his message to us. God created the universe by his Son, and everything will someday belong to the Son.(CEV)

2 In these last days, he has spoken to us by his Son. God has appointed him heir of all things and made the universe through him.(CSB)

2 But now, in the acharit-hayamim, he has spoken to us through his Son, to whom he has given ownership of everything and through whom he created the universe.(CJB)

2 But in these last days, he has spoken to us in his Son. In the beginning, God worked through his Son to make thewhole universe. He decided that everything should belong to his Son.(EASY)

2 In these last days, he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.(EHV)

2 In these last days he has spoken to us through his Son. God made his Son responsible for everything. His Son is the one through whom God made the universe.(GW)

2 In these last days, He has spoken to us by His Son. God has appointed Him heir of all things and made the universe through Him.(HCSB)

Rella


Amo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9FiNgOVqKQ

More ancient ruins. Some of which look more like imprints left in mud rock, lava flow, hardened volcanic ash and or a mixture of the same or more. Deposited, moved around, and chaotically dispersed by the convulsions of the global flood. The structures or items leaving the imprints being long gone. It is obvious as well, these more ancient ruins or imprints were built upon or around by later societies, being long gone now themselves as well. 

Rella

There may be more ... but I stumbled on this and thought you might be interested???? OR NOT  rofl 

https://nypost.com/2024/04/04/us-news/mystery-surrounds-peculiar-giant-skeletons-claimed-to-be-found-in-nevada-caves/

Scientists still baffled from giant human skeletons up to 10 feet tall decades after initial discovery

Rella

#540
AND https://www.ancientpages.com/2014/03/31/discovery-of-unusual-ancient-skeleton-offers-evidence-giants-inhabited-california/

Discovery Of Unusual Ancient Skeleton Offers Evidence Giants Inhabited California

AND

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/?a=d&d=SFC19080709.2.11&e=-------en--20--1--txt-txIN--------

Remains of Giant Race Are Found Near Santa Monica Beach SPECIAL DISPATCH TO THE CALL LOS ANGELES, July 8— Fourteen skeletons. of giant Indians, supposed. to have roved this section centuries ago, have Just been dug from the, sands of the beach on the Malibu ranch just north of Santa Monica.


Amo

Yep. A major cover up, or generations of hoaxers all perpetrating the same one.

Rella


Amo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPNgGnUrCKM

An enlightening video about the truth of what has been happening for a long time now concerning "Archeological sites" which have the potential to ruin present accepted and harshly defended narratives. What they are doing in regards to Gobekli Tepe is not an isolated incident at all. The archeological remains which reveal the truth about the giants of our past, are not at all the only evidences destroyed, hidden, covered over, or intentionally contaminated with reconstructions dreamed up in the minds of agenda driven archeologists and "scientists so called" alone.

No this huge site which those protecting their own narratives against evidences disproving the same, was not intentionally buried by someone thousands of years ago. It was far more likely destroyed and buried by the global flood, and or later catastrophic events connected to the same. There are many sites the world over, which archeologists and scientists of a certain narrative simply abandon because they do not like where the evidence is leading.

This is not to mention the intentional destruction of many, built over or upon to cover them up, or flooded under waters by Damming projects, or simply designated as areas off limits to all but those in the know. While they examine the evidence they hide from others, and or figure out and or facilitate proper narratives to mislead, before revealing the tainted evidences they have altered unto their own agendas.

This will all come out in the laundry, when God reveals all of their deceptions and cover ups, to hide Him and the truths of His word from the masses.

Amo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo9YagKpkz0

I found the above video interesting. It reveals how advanced societies were even 5000 years ago. Though it pictures them as basically primitives according to present faulty narratives. It also questions just exactly what happened to seemingly suddenly end this society. Which I think is obvious of course, a flood, if not the flood. Or catastrophic event later, likely still related to conditions caused by the flood.

I became curious though, as the video addressed artifacts and structures of importance at the site, while basically ignoring the structure right in the middle and atop the entire complex. Which the entire city or complex was obviously it appears, built around. The structure does not seem to be built of the same material or like the rest of the complex built around it. Why would this center of attention be ignored by the presentation and others I viewed in order to get more info and a better look at that structure?

The following video, though not in English, has the best views of that structure I could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiTGvNeGo1U

It seems to me, that this site is another possible example of peoples discovering and building upon or around antediluvian artifacts. Which they either honored as evidence of those before them who were more advanced than they were, and or deified and built their religions and or societies upon.

Perhaps there are videos or information relating to this object itself, which could add more light upon the subject. For now, or until then, I'm suspicious of the seeming indifference toward this central and uplifted monument or ruin of Mohenjo Daro.

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