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Creation scientists

Started by Amo, Sat Aug 10, 2019 - 12:47:21

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4WD

Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 22, 2024 - 15:49:37Do not be fooled by the vain imaginings of the proud of the earth. Who would restrict the God of heaven and earth, to the extremely low limits of their own understanding.
Were you looking in the mirror when you issued that edict?

Amo

Rella -
QuoteYou mean by the word of God that has been translated and retranslated to the point that there is not one commentary that can be relied on for the truth but a whole collection of commentaries of explanations on virtually every thing that is in the Holy Bible?

Or perhaps you mean by the words of an important person in ones basic religion... such as Frankie to the RCC, or Brigham Young to the Mormons?

WE are told in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Does this verse not instruct believers to make every effort to present themselves to God as approved, unashamed workers who handle the word of truth accurately.

Well, how exactly does one do that? You know as well as I that the RCC still teaches Mary was a virgin throughout her life... even though multiple translations have said Joseph did not know her until;..........
And they argue throughout that church that until or till means he never knew her. Those people will argue and nothing you or I  or the corner soap box minister can say that will change their minds.

But that does not make it settled the way it has always been written.

No Rella, I simply mean exactly what I said. We will be judged by the word of God, regardless of which or what interpretation we choose to believe and or create regarding it. Most of the word of God is pretty simple to comprehend and understand. The exact intent of which, is to reveal God and the truth to humanity. Which God was, is, and always will be very capable of. The problem is not with God's word, it is with the evil one, and those inclined to accept his lies.

We can see this right from the beginning. God says do not eat from this tree or you will die. Not rocket science! The devil comes in and begins his lies and confusion. Which have continued ever since, with a great many following him. Not because God's word is so overwhelmingly difficult to understand, but because the evil one and his angels are constantly seeking to confuse and twist the word of God unto humanities grater destruction.

Quotesimply makes no sense that it only took 120 hours... when the description of Day 1 starts " And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

According to what presupposition, does it not make sense that God created  the heavens and the earth in six days as the scriptures themselves declare? We don't know for certain what that first verse means or really even describes. I don't see however, what difference that should make regarding the testimony right after it, of the creation in six days. Or that we should limit God to the confines of our own understanding, regarding an event that was altogether, far beyond our current understanding. According to scripture, we could not even handle just seeing God in our current condition. Let alone being their among the rest of the sons of God as scripture describes it in one place, observing His creation of our heaven and earth.

We have the account of creation given to us by the inspiration of God, and later prophets and apostles who backed that testimony up as correct, by that same inspiration of God as well. To go off on speculative tangents which contradict these testimonies and suggest things never even eluded to by scripture in place of that which is, is simply to do just that. Certainly not a demonstration of faith in the word of God.

QuoteYou , if you know who he is, will not like what is written in the link I quote below. It was written by R. C. Sproul an American theologian and pastor (1939–2017)

Robert Charles Sproul was an American Reformed theologian and ordained pastor. He was the founder and chairman of Ligonier Ministries and could be heard daily on the Renewing Your Mind radio broadcast in the United States and internationally.

I do not think that it is necessarily wise to out of hand discount anything that anyone says... if they have an idea.

To me... The Holy Bible was written for "us" as instructional and our handbook as well as history book. I have for longer then I can remember had a strong feeling that We... mankind... was made for a reason... Part of which is for our Heavenly Father and another part which I wont go into here.

Assuming Adam... who is in our downline pedigree... came into being so you, and Hobiwe, and 4WD and RB and all here.. including me could be here at this time.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with the base origins of this planet we live on. The two do not necessarily need to be tied at the hip.

It is scripture that ties them at the hip, not me. The condition of the earth described before the creation, is that it was formless and void. Empty, without structure or life. The bible does not elude at all, to any kind of evolutionary development of life. Deep time or not.

QuoteYou of all people here who provides all those pictures and videos on what is said about the flood and giants and those extraordinary buildings
that are being found from those hugh stones .. do you honestly believe that they are about 6000 years old or less? They exist. You provide proof.

Also ... I still am working on the verse that follows the 7th day rest one. Gen 2: 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Please explain to me how there could be generations plural in a day? What was meant by this. There could not have been generations in a week.

Yes I do honestly believe they are thousands of years old. Many I believe are remnants of the pre-flood world, built by people of much greater stature, intellect, and ability than we even now poses. Though of a different nature, in a different world. The remnants or discovered ruins of which, post flood civilizations built upon. Many times in commemoration if not deification of these greater individuals and societies before them.

Chapter two of Genesis begins by addressing the seventh day after creation. By blessing and sanctifying it, an obvious reference to God's seventh day Sabbath. Which of course would not make much if any sense, if the day was symbolic and or represented a much larger frame of time. Apart from this as I understand, there were no chapter divisions in the earliest Genesis accounts.

The generations described after the reference to this seventh day, would no doubt be the days of creation themselves. Each day representing the generation or history of creation taking place upon that day.

QuoteStrong's Hebrew Lexicon

8435 towldah to-led-aw' or toldah {to-led-aw'}; from 3205; (plural only) descent, i.e. family; (figuratively) history:--birth, generations.

The following link may address some of your concerns.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/two-creation-accounts.html

I will address the link you provided when time affords.

Amo

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Jun 22, 2024 - 18:51:18Were you looking in the mirror when you issued that edict?

It would not apply. As I believe what the holy scriptures simply and plainly state, right in front of the faces of anyone who cares to read it. Not reading anything into or out of it. I contend it means that which it simply states.

Rella


4WD

Quote from: Amo on Sun Jun 23, 2024 - 12:25:13It would not apply. As I believe what the holy scriptures simply and plainly state, right in front of the faces of anyone who cares to read it. Not reading anything into or out of it. I contend it means that which it simply states.
Of course it would apply.  You said,
Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 22, 2024 - 15:49:37Do not be fooled by the vain imaginings of the proud of the earth. Who would restrict the God of heaven and earth, to the extremely low limits of their own understanding.
It seems readily apparent that it is nothing less than the extremely low limits of your own understanding that would suggest that God's special written revelation would not agree with His general revelation about the specifics and processes of His creation.

Amo

Quote from: 4WD on Mon Jun 24, 2024 - 05:31:14Of course it would apply.  You said,It seems readily apparent that it is nothing less than the extremely low limits of your own understanding that would suggest that God's special written revelation would not agree with His general revelation about the specifics and processes of His creation.

Gobbledegook. The word of God simply says what it means, and means what it says in the Genesis account. I need not add interpretation to the simple conclusive statements of scripture itself. Here we are though, please to tell and or add your interpretation of what it says. Thank you.

4WD

Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 29, 2024 - 10:11:24Gobbledegook. The word of God simply says what it means, and means what it says in the Genesis account. I need not add interpretation to the simple conclusive statements of scripture itself. Here we are though, please to tell and or add your interpretation of what it says. Thank you.
Do you even know what God's general revelation is?

Amo

https://www.livescience.com/space/cosmology/the-early-universe-is-nothing-like-we-expected-james-webb-telescope-reveals-new-understanding-of-how-galaxies-formed-at-cosmic-dawn

Quote below is from article at link above. Emphasis is mine.

Quote'The early universe is nothing like we expected': James Webb telescope reveals 'new understanding' of how galaxies formed at cosmic dawn

Astronomers using the James Webb Space Telescope have observed five extremely dense proto-globular clusters along a hair-thin arc of glittering stars. The discovery could help them understand how the earliest galaxies formed.

The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) has discovered what could be the earliest star clusters in the universe.

JWST spotted the five proto-globular clusters — swarms of millions of stars bound together by gravity — inside the Cosmic Gems arc, a galaxy that formed just 460 million years after the Big Bang.

The Cosmic Gems arc gets its name from its appearance: When seen from our solar system, the star-studded galaxy looks like a hair-thin crescent due to the powerful gravitational influence of a foreground galaxy, which magnifies and distorts the distant galaxy's appearance.

The galaxy is the most highly magnified region seen in the first 500 million years of our universe, giving astronomers an unprecedented window into how the stirrings of the first stars sculpted galaxies during cosmic dawn.

Cosmic dawn is the time encompassing the first billion years of the universe. Roughly 400 million years after the Big Bang, the Epoch of Reionization began, in which light from nascent stars stripped hydrogen of their electrons, leading to a fundamental reshaping of galaxy structures.

"The early universe is nothing like we expected," study first author Angela Adamo, an astronomer at Stockholm University, told Live Science. "Galaxies are more luminous, they form stars at break-neck speed, and they do so in massive and dense star clusters. We are building a new understanding of how early galaxies formed."

The researchers published their findings June 24 in the journal Nature.

So, in other words, scientists observations and conclusions about the universe and galaxy formation have ben wrong. Now with the new information they have from the JWST, they are building new understandings or theories. Which may of course be just as wrong, needing to be changed again accordingly.

The term Cosmic dawn and its definition given above, are of course theory as well, though state somewhat like a reality. It may be just as wrong as anything else they theorize. Representing one possibly wrong theory built upon another, built upon another. As much of so called science actually is. Man's theories and speculations regarding that which no one observed, based upon extrapolation concerning that which we can now observe. Ever subject to change according to new information based upon new observable evidences.

Nevertheless, if one's base theory is wrong, then all the rest following will be wrong as well. Simply making changes and adjustments concerning that which is and has been wrong from its inception. Describing the condition of ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of truth.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Rella

Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 29, 2024 - 13:13:44https://www.livescience.com/space/cosmology/the-early-universe-is-nothing-like-we-expected-james-webb-telescope-reveals-new-understanding-of-how-galaxies-formed-at-cosmic-dawn

Quote below is from article at link above. Emphasis is mine.

So, in other words, scientists observations and conclusions about the universe and galaxy formation have ben wrong. Now with the new information they have from the JWST, they are building new understandings or theories. Which may of course be just as wrong, needing to be changed again accordingly.

The term Cosmic dawn and its definition given above, are of course theory as well, though state somewhat like a reality. It may be just as wrong as anything else they theorize. Representing one possibly wrong theory built upon another, built upon another. As much of so called science actually is. Man's theories and speculations regarding that which no one observed, based upon extrapolation concerning that which we can now observe. Ever subject to change according to new information based upon new observable evidences.

Nevertheless, if one's base theory is wrong, then all the rest following will be wrong as well. Simply making changes and adjustments concerning that which is and has been wrong from its inception. Describing the condition of ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of truth.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Amo,

One question I dont believe I ever read you to answer is this.

With all that is ever talked about in the way of everything that is out there beyond the earth from such as stars, and planets, and galaxies, and big bang theories... et al (The things I label under guess work...)

Do you feel that the earth.. that we walk on came into existence after the other stuff, or do you feel it was all inclusive when creation was created?  (Not looking for a when in time, or how long ago, but just if you feel earth came after, or at the same time.) (BTW, there is no right or wrong answer to this IMO, just wondering)

Gen 1 :
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(IOW...Would this be the earth alone.... or everything out there? This would have been one day NASB95)

2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters

9Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

10God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
( dry land called earth came about on a third day... NASB95)



Amo

Quote from: Rella on Sat Jun 29, 2024 - 15:51:10Amo,

One question I dont believe I ever read you to answer is this.

With all that is ever talked about in the way of everything that is out there beyond the earth from such as stars, and planets, and galaxies, and big bang theories... et al (The things I label under guess work...)

Do you feel that the earth.. that we walk on came into existence after the other stuff, or do you feel it was all inclusive when creation was created?  (Not looking for a when in time, or how long ago, but just if you feel earth came after, or at the same time.) (BTW, there is no right or wrong answer to this IMO, just wondering)

Gen 1 :
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(IOW...Would this be the earth alone.... or everything out there? This would have been one day NASB95)

2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters

9Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

10God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
( dry land called earth came about on a third day... NASB95)




I don't know the answer to that. I think there is quite a bit more to the term heaven, than we can now see and or comprehend. Not to mention the whole dividing of the waters description. This is aside from the fact as well, that according to scripture, the pre flood world was different from our present one. I am also not sure if the description of the creation of heaven and earth was in relation to our observable galaxy alone, or others as well, or the entire universe. I lean toward our galaxy, but will wait until He can answer all questions.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Heaven and earth exist in relation to each other. We even somewhat understand now, the importance and inter relations of the planets and the star of our solar system. Just how precise distances, orbits, atmosphere, and what ever other elements must be, for our existence at all. Just a microscopic glimpse of the precision of creation as a whole no doubt.

I believe we can trust the particulars of time and event of creation described in the scriptures as accurate historical record. Though certainly not the how's, or intricacies involved in the creation of heaven and earth. There is simply so very much we do not know about heaven, or even the earth as originally created. We do see certain aspects of the creation of heaven and earth, transpiring together during the six days of creation. So, I figure they were formed together, and their relation to each other may very well be necessary to the existence of each, as God possibly intended. This is speculation though, concerning what and how God brought heaven and earth about. Certainly not scientific fact, or any attempt to limit how or what can and or did do. All such is far beyond us at present.






Amo


Amo


Amo


4WD

Quote from: Amo on Sun Jun 30, 2024 - 08:48:44https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRug4jRg0k0

Constants, not so constant.
From that "science so-called" that you spend so much time complaining about?

Amo

Quote from: 4WD on Mon Jul 01, 2024 - 12:47:05From that "science so-called" that you spend so much time complaining about?

Yep. The ones who contradict each other, don't agree with each other about many things, and prove their previous theories wrong over and over again. Proving that the nature of a great deal of theoretical science is simply the best guess work of varying views, seriously effected and our impacted by many a presumption regarding one's own world view. While such cannot be fully avoided as the nature of science is completely dependent upon increased information which only comes with time and increased investigation, the haughty attitude of many a scientist regarding their shaky theories which are so often proved wrong or deficient, is a topic specifically addressed in holy scripture. As a condition that will only increase in contradiction to the testimony of holy scripture as the end approaches. So be it, as God's word has determined.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Amo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW68VgvkS80

Another good one from Answers in Genesis Canada, about devolution.

Rella

IMO evolution is the opposite of the creation of life.

I do not believe that God the Father set out to create life of any kind that thousands, and millions and billions of years later did, infact, somehow morph into another creature.


Example
Mules and Hinnys did not evolve... nor were they created by the creator... They came about by breeding two species.

More: See pics of the following at https://factanimal.com/fun-stuff/hybrid-animals-that-really-exist/
1. Grolar Bear
Usually, it's a bad idea for cousins to reproduce, but try telling this to the Grolar bear: a lovechild of the two most fearsome mammals on land, a polar bear and grizzly bear.

2. Dzo
A product of a yak and domestic cattle, the Dzo is bred primarily to be a pack animal.

3. Coywolf
One of the most common hybrids to come about naturally is the coywolf. They are made up of a combination of coyotes with either eastern or gray wolves, and are occasionally called "wolfotes".

4. Liger
The liger is the offspring of a male Lion and a female Tiger.

Ligers only exist in captivity today, because the habitats of the parental species do not overlap out in the wild. They typically grow much larger than either parent species.

5. Wolfdog
Similar to the coywolf, wolfdogs are hybrids of wolves, but this time, with domesticated dogs.

While the breed of dog can vary and is not important, to qualify as a wolfdog, the wolf needs to be either gray, eastern, red, or Ethiopian.

6. Pumapard
Crossed between a cougar and a leopard, pumapards are small in stature. Contrary to most hybrid animals that double in size of their parents, the pumapard breed inherited dwarfism, and was often half the size of their predecessors.

They have a long body relative to cougars, with very short legs. Their coats can be dark, gray, sandy, or a chestnut brown.

7. Bengal Cat
The most adorable hybrid on this list, the bengal cat, may not have even crossed your mind as a hybrid. But it is! These cats are crossed between an Asian leopard cat and a domesticated one.

While the domestic cat does not have to come from a specific breed, it is most common for it to be a spotted Egyptian Mau.

8. Mule (Already mentioned)
The most common hybrid animal on this list, the mule is the offspring of a male donkey and a female horse. They are known to be sterile, but bred specifically to be pack animals.

9. Hinny  (also menti0ned before)
Remember the mule? Well meet its crossbred inversion! A hinny is the product of breeding a male horse with a female donkey (versus the mule's male donkey and female horse combination). While they look similar, they are different in many ways.

10. Zonkey
Another donkey hybrid, the zonkey is a combination of the donkey and a zebra. They are known by many names, some of which are zebrass, zebronkey, zedonk, zebadonk, zenkey or deebra.

Some may also refer to a zonkey as a "zebroid" as this is an umbrella term for all hybrids of zebras and other equine breeds.

11. Cama
A truly fluffy animal, camas are the offspring of a male dromedary camel and a female llama. Initially bred back in 1998, camas came about with the intention of creating a hybrid that produced more wool than a llama, while keeping the same size, strength, and temperament of a camel.

12. Narluga
The only aquatic animal on this list, the narluga is a product of a male beluga whale and a female narwhal. It had been only theorized to be real for nearly thirty years when, in 2020, a skull's teeth were analyzed to find out more about the DNA, and confirmed that narlugas do, in fact, exist.

And...

The Amazon rainforest is home to several kinds of little green birds that could fit in the palm of your hand. Males have a splash of color atop their heads, some sporting feathers in iridescent blue or pink hues, while others are snow-white. But on very rare occasions, people have spotted another kind of bird—one with a brilliant yellow crown. Though scientists identified the species in 1957, it was 45 years before they found one again.

They dubbed these elusive creatures golden-crowned manakins, and their lighter-colored counterparts are opal-crowned and snow-capped manakins. Scientists wondered if the little creatures with yellow head feathers were a hybrid of the other two, but they couldn't fathom how two birds with essentially white feathers could breed to create a new color.

In 2017, scientists sequenced much of the golden-crowned manakin's genome and discovered it derived about 80 percent of its DNA from the opal-crowned manakin and about 20 percent from the snow-capped manakin. This discovery made it the first known hybrid bird species in the Amazon.

When it comes to reproduction, dolphins may be among the least discriminatory creatures on the planet—frequently mating with cetaceans of other species, dolphins seem especially "open-minded," wrote the Washington Post's Jason Bittel in 2019.

In a 2016 study, researchers documented 20 cases of dolphin hybridization, and only seven of them occurred in captivity. These interspecies dalliances represented 18 unique pairings of species—and most of these were not closely related. Only two of the couplings belonged to the same genus.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2018/01/12/with-interspecies-hybrids-it-makes-a-difference-whos-the-dad-and-whos-the-mom/

With interspecies hybrids, it makes a difference who's the dad and who's the mom

OKAy.. I'll stop.

If these things happened not just in captivity but in the wild...
how far back did they begin. 100 years ago or shortly after life was created.... ?  I suggest it was closer to the beginning and why I do not support evolution.

Last: From Smithsonian

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/modern-humans-once-mated-with-other-species-125536319/

Modern Humans Once Mated with Other Species
Genetic studies reveal that some modern humans carry DNA from extinct hominid species, evidence of ancient interbreeding

Hobie

Quote from: Rella on Sat Jul 13, 2024 - 07:56:17IMO evolution is the opposite of the creation of life.

I do not believe that God the Father set out to create life of any kind that thousands, and millions and billions of years later did, infact, somehow morph into another creature.


Example
Mules and Hinnys did not evolve... nor were they created by the creator... They came about by breeding two species.

More: See pics of the following at https://factanimal.com/fun-stuff/hybrid-animals-that-really-exist/
1. Grolar Bear
Usually, it's a bad idea for cousins to reproduce, but try telling this to the Grolar bear: a lovechild of the two most fearsome mammals on land, a polar bear and grizzly bear.

2. Dzo
A product of a yak and domestic cattle, the Dzo is bred primarily to be a pack animal.

3. Coywolf
One of the most common hybrids to come about naturally is the coywolf. They are made up of a combination of coyotes with either eastern or gray wolves, and are occasionally called "wolfotes".

4. Liger
The liger is the offspring of a male Lion and a female Tiger.

Ligers only exist in captivity today, because the habitats of the parental species do not overlap out in the wild. They typically grow much larger than either parent species.

5. Wolfdog
Similar to the coywolf, wolfdogs are hybrids of wolves, but this time, with domesticated dogs.

While the breed of dog can vary and is not important, to qualify as a wolfdog, the wolf needs to be either gray, eastern, red, or Ethiopian.

6. Pumapard
Crossed between a cougar and a leopard, pumapards are small in stature. Contrary to most hybrid animals that double in size of their parents, the pumapard breed inherited dwarfism, and was often half the size of their predecessors.

They have a long body relative to cougars, with very short legs. Their coats can be dark, gray, sandy, or a chestnut brown.

7. Bengal Cat
The most adorable hybrid on this list, the bengal cat, may not have even crossed your mind as a hybrid. But it is! These cats are crossed between an Asian leopard cat and a domesticated one.

While the domestic cat does not have to come from a specific breed, it is most common for it to be a spotted Egyptian Mau.

8. Mule (Already mentioned)
The most common hybrid animal on this list, the mule is the offspring of a male donkey and a female horse. They are known to be sterile, but bred specifically to be pack animals.

9. Hinny  (also menti0ned before)
Remember the mule? Well meet its crossbred inversion! A hinny is the product of breeding a male horse with a female donkey (versus the mule's male donkey and female horse combination). While they look similar, they are different in many ways.

10. Zonkey
Another donkey hybrid, the zonkey is a combination of the donkey and a zebra. They are known by many names, some of which are zebrass, zebronkey, zedonk, zebadonk, zenkey or deebra.

Some may also refer to a zonkey as a "zebroid" as this is an umbrella term for all hybrids of zebras and other equine breeds.

11. Cama
A truly fluffy animal, camas are the offspring of a male dromedary camel and a female llama. Initially bred back in 1998, camas came about with the intention of creating a hybrid that produced more wool than a llama, while keeping the same size, strength, and temperament of a camel.

12. Narluga
The only aquatic animal on this list, the narluga is a product of a male beluga whale and a female narwhal. It had been only theorized to be real for nearly thirty years when, in 2020, a skull's teeth were analyzed to find out more about the DNA, and confirmed that narlugas do, in fact, exist.

And...

The Amazon rainforest is home to several kinds of little green birds that could fit in the palm of your hand. Males have a splash of color atop their heads, some sporting feathers in iridescent blue or pink hues, while others are snow-white. But on very rare occasions, people have spotted another kind of bird—one with a brilliant yellow crown. Though scientists identified the species in 1957, it was 45 years before they found one again.

They dubbed these elusive creatures golden-crowned manakins, and their lighter-colored counterparts are opal-crowned and snow-capped manakins. Scientists wondered if the little creatures with yellow head feathers were a hybrid of the other two, but they couldn't fathom how two birds with essentially white feathers could breed to create a new color.

In 2017, scientists sequenced much of the golden-crowned manakin's genome and discovered it derived about 80 percent of its DNA from the opal-crowned manakin and about 20 percent from the snow-capped manakin. This discovery made it the first known hybrid bird species in the Amazon.

When it comes to reproduction, dolphins may be among the least discriminatory creatures on the planet—frequently mating with cetaceans of other species, dolphins seem especially "open-minded," wrote the Washington Post's Jason Bittel in 2019.

In a 2016 study, researchers documented 20 cases of dolphin hybridization, and only seven of them occurred in captivity. These interspecies dalliances represented 18 unique pairings of species—and most of these were not closely related. Only two of the couplings belonged to the same genus.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2018/01/12/with-interspecies-hybrids-it-makes-a-difference-whos-the-dad-and-whos-the-mom/

With interspecies hybrids, it makes a difference who's the dad and who's the mom

OKAy.. I'll stop.

If these things happened not just in captivity but in the wild...
how far back did they begin. 100 years ago or shortly after life was created.... ?  I suggest it was closer to the beginning and why I do not support evolution.

Last: From Smithsonian

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/modern-humans-once-mated-with-other-species-125536319/

Modern Humans Once Mated with Other Species
Genetic studies reveal that some modern humans carry DNA from extinct hominid species, evidence of ancient interbreeding

They are within the same species which is consistent with what God set forth..

Amo

Here is a little dated good one, showing a link between science so called, and lefty progressivism. My comments in blue.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/denial-of-evolution-is-a-form-of-white-supremacy/

QuoteDenial of Evolution Is a Form of White Supremacy

As museums reopen let's introduce ourselves, and our children, to the original Black ancestors of all human beings

After a year of lockdown, museums, libraries and bookstores across America are reopening. This cultural reawakening's beginning coincided with both the Juneteenth holiday and the one-year anniversary of the one of the largest protests in American history against racial injustice. As bookstores reopen, many are organizing displays of children's books that celebrate Black history. What you won't find in even the biggest collections of books is the story of the dark-skinned early people who launched human civilization.

The global scientific community overwhelmingly accepts that all living humans are of African descent. Most scientific articles about our African origins focus on genetics. The part of the story that is not widely shared is about the creation of human culture. We are all descended genetically, and also culturally, from dark-skinned ancestors. Early humans from the African continent are the ones who first invented tools; the use of fire; language; and religion. These dark skinned early people laid down the foundation for human culture.  Considering the short life span of our early ancestors, these original innovators were probably also very young. No one who follows artistic trends will be surprised to learn that, from the beginning, human culture was essentially invented by teenagers. And by culture I don't just mean the arts, I mean the whole shebang.

I want to unmask the lie that evolution denial is about religion and recognize that at its core, it is a form of white supremacy that perpetuates segregation and violence against Black bodies. Under the guise of "religious freedom," the legalistic wing of creationists loudly insists that their point of view deserves equal time in the classroom. Science education in the U.S. is constantly on the defensive against antievolution activists who want biblical stories to be taught as fact. In fact, the first wave of legal fights against evolution was supported by the Klan in the 1920s. Ever since then, entrenched racism and the ban on teaching evolution in the schools have gone hand in hand. In his piece,What We Get Wrong About the Evolution Debate, Adam Shapiro argues that "the history of American controversies over evolution has long been entangled with the history of American educational racism."

At the heart of white evangelical creationism is the mythology of an unbroken white lineage that stretches back to a light-skinned Adam and Eve. In literal interpretations of the Christian Bible, white skin was created in God's image. Dark skin has a different, more problematic origin. As the biblical story goes, the curse or mark of Cain for killing his brother was a darkening of his descendants' skin. Historically, many congregations in the U.S. pointed to this story of Cain as evidence that Black skin was created as a punishment.

The fantasy of a continuous line of white descendants segregates white heritage from Black bodies. In the real world, this mythology translates into lethal effects on people who are Black. Fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible are part of the "fake news" epidemic that feeds the racial divide in our country.

For too long, a vocal minority of creationists has hijacked children's education, media and book publishing. Statistics on creationist beliefs in the US vary. Depending on the poll, up to 40 percent of percent of adults believe that humans have always existed in their present form (i.e., they believe in an unbroken human lineage stretching back to Adam and Eve).

We have seen some progress in the classroom. From 2007 to 2019, the percentage of teachers who present evolution without a creationist alternative grew dramatically, from only 51 percent to 67 percent. But it's still not enough. My hope is that if we make the connection between creationism and racist ideology clearer, we will provide more ammunition to get science into the classroom—and into our culture at large.

It's common knowledge that some school boards, especially in the South, have fought long and hard to keep evolution out of school textbooks. What you might not know is how the policing of educational content morphs into what might be called "self-censorship" within the children's book industry as a whole. Scientific findings about human origins have been slow to trickle down into books written for young people. This major omission reflects the outsize effect that science-denying voices have on the books that find their ways not just into classrooms, but also into libraries, bookstores and children's homes. Fear of economic punishment within the publishing industry creates a self-perpetuating lack of teaching materials about evolution.

If you go on Amazon and look up "children's books on evolution" you will find about 10–15 relevant titles. This is in contrast to the hundreds of children's books on other scientific subjects such as chemistry, astronomy and other less controversial subjects. I found only one book on evolution for preschoolers, called Grandmother Fish. The author had to self-fund the book through Kickstarter.

On the other hand, there are hundreds of children's books available on Amazon that focus on biblical origin stories. Science deniers are pumping money into a well-funded antievolution machine. In 2007, the creationists built their own Bible-themed museum and amusement park. What they understand is that to reach young children you need music, colorful characters and celebration.

In the Adam-and-Eve scenario, the Creator bestows both physical and cultural humanity on the first people. From the get-go Adam knows how to name the animals. No one has to invent language or figure out how to make tools. Science, of course, tells us otherwise. The process of natural selection shaped our bodies and capacities. Our humanity emerged over the millennia as creative ancient people figured out the crucial skills—from storytelling to cooking to rope making—that we now take for granted.

And yet, even in the current literature about human origins that we do have, the end point of evolution is often depicted as a white man carrying a spear. This image not only eliminates our African heritage but also erases women and children from the picture. Because evolution is foundational knowledge, we need the story to be told in many different ways, by many different voices.

As we move forward to undo systemic racism in every aspect of business, society, academia and life, let's be sure to do so in science education as well. Embracing humanity's dark-skinned ancestors with love and respect is key to changing our relationship to the past, and to creating racial equity in the present. These ancient people made the rest of us possible. Opening our hearts to them and embracing them as heroic, fully human and worthy of our respect is part of the process of healing from our racist history.

Delusional is, as delusional does. One delusion leads to another. I don't know who is more delusional, this guy for believing in evolution as the mechanism responsible for our existence, or whatever people there are who think they know the color of the skin of Adam and Eve, and or that such really matters at all. Go figure.


Rella

Quote from: Amo on Sun Jul 14, 2024 - 07:54:58Here is a little dated good one, showing a link between science so called, and lefty progressivism. My comments in blue.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/denial-of-evolution-is-a-form-of-white-supremacy/

Delusional is, as delusional does. One delusion leads to another. I don't know who is more delusional, this guy for believing in evolution as the mechanism responsible for our existence, or whatever people there are who think they know the color of the skin of Adam and Eve, and or that such really matters at all. Go figure.



Well... at least they don't pull the race card in the title.

This may be one of the dumber articles out there.

Amo

Quote from: Rella on Sun Jul 14, 2024 - 09:11:37Well... at least they don't pull the race card in the title.

This may be one of the dumber articles out there.

Agreed.

Amo


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