News:

Our Hosting and Server Costs Are Expensive! Please Subscribe To Help With Monthly Donations.

Main Menu
+-+-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 80068
Latest: LonnieyrgytreaRom
New This Month: 5
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 890043
Total Topics: 89475
Most Online Today: 246
Most Online Ever: 2999
(Fri Jan 13, 2023 - 21:20:46)
Users Online
Members: 2
Guests: 210
Total: 212
Rella
NyawehNyoh
Google (2)

Creation by God, why dont scientist believe?

Started by Hobie, Sat Feb 18, 2023 - 07:41:20

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alan

Quote from: Rella on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 09:56:48

Not so much. As believers or theologians (which is actually worse) to exclude their beliefs that God created that pinpoint capable of expansion is simply denying God.


I've never actually heard a believer say that, EVER, and I know many that believe the universe is indeed 13.8 billion years old, as claimed by science.

4WD

Quote from: Rella on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 09:56:48Not so much. As believers or theologians (which is actually worse) to exclude their beliefs that God created that pinpoint capable of expansion is simply denying God. It is agreeing with the atheists and agnostics that say it originally came from nothing. They get so puffed up in their own theories there is little left for anything else. And LeMaitre keeping science separate in his mind and work simply tells me he really believed that God was not involved. And the Jesuit training would promote that separation as he would have been very into their agenda in a way.
There was nothing in what you posted that could be construed to say that LeMaitre excluded his belief that God created the big bang.  LeMaitre keeping science separate simply indicates that he was well aware of the limitations of science and that the spiritual was quite outside the realm of science.

Rella

Quote from: Alan on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 10:29:34


I've never actually heard a believer say that, EVER, and I know many that believe the universe is indeed 13.8 billion years old, as claimed by science.

Ok. Then what do those you know say happened? What do they say the big bang was?
I don't care when actual land came into being... it could well be 13.8 billion years ago..and have no bearing on what happened here 6,000.

Did you never hear a believer  saying what the Jesuit Priest said about the universe coming from a small point and expanded... (and that is why he and Hubble both are credited with the expansion)(And look how many today are into that expansion idea.)

You are making my point that he.. the Jesuit Priest... may not have been a believer because he obviously wanted the start to be from something other the God, or it would not have mattered to him that his boss... Pope PiusXII.. said something about it proving the beliefs of the Catholic faith...

OR do you mean that your old age believers never denied God was the reason?


Rella

Quote from: 4WD on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 11:48:37
There was nothing in what you posted that could be construed to say that LeMaitre excluded his belief that God created the big bang.  LeMaitre keeping science separate simply indicates that he was well aware of the limitations of science and that the spiritual was quite outside the realm of science.

There is nothing that says he had any belief that God was involved at all.

I have never known a priest who did not include God in everything.. and if it was not God it was Mary ::doh:: (But that is beside the point.) He should have been about proving that without God the tiny point could not have happened.

4WD

Quote from: Rella on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 12:22:16
He should have been about proving that without God the tiny point could not have happened.
And just how would he, or anyone else, do that?  You can't even prove that God exists.  If you could actually do that, there wouldn't be a need for faith in God.

Alan

Quote from: Rella on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 12:13:21
Ok. Then what do those you know say happened? What do they say the big bang was?
I don't care when actual land came into being... it could well be 13.8 billion years ago..and have no bearing on what happened here 6,000.

Did you never hear a believer  saying what the Jesuit Priest said about the universe coming from a small point and expanded... (and that is why he and Hubble both are credited with the expansion)(And look how many today are into that expansion idea.)

You are making my point that he.. the Jesuit Priest... may not have been a believer because he obviously wanted the start to be from something other the God, or it would not have mattered to him that his boss... Pope PiusXII.. said something about it proving the beliefs of the Catholic faith...

OR do you mean that your old age believers never denied God was the reason?


I, much the same as LaMaitre believe that it was God's hand that initiated the Big Bang. Every old world creation believer I've ever talked to believed that to be true. I've literally never heard anyone say that God and nature are separate entities, independent of one another.

Rella

Quote from: Alan on Wed Mar 01, 2023 - 22:06:24

I, much the same as LaMaitre believe that it was God's hand that initiated the Big Bang. Every old world creation believer I've ever talked to believed that to be true. I've literally never heard anyone say that God and nature are separate entities, independent of one another.

But you never said it was not so.  HE DID... (see below).I promise this will be my last post on this subject... but wanted to post some of what is said about LeMaitre... color change in the quote is mine

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thereligioushistorynerd/2022/08/father-georges-lemaitre-and-the-big-bang-theory/

QuoteIn 1931, Lemaître proposed that the universe began as a single particle, infinitely dense, which inflated and stretched and pulled apart. He called this the "primeval atom."

The idea that the universe came from a single particle, or singularity, and that the expansion of that particle was the beginning of time, was greeted with skepticism by many of Lemaître's scientific peers.

It was well known that Lemaître was a Catholic priest. He even attended scientific conferences wearing his "clerics."

Some scientists dismissed Lemaître's primeval atom as part of a religious agenda.

But Lemaître's proposal impressed the most prominent physicist of the time, Albert Einstein. And, eventually, Lemaître's Big Bang came to be the prevailing theory in physics regarding the beginning of the universe

How did the Catholic Church react to Lemaître's work? The Church was very proud of him,....

Lemaître was not a scientist who was also, incidentally, a priest. He was fully a priest.

He was a foundational member of the Pontifical Academy of the Sciences, established by Pope Pius XI in 1936.

Lemaître's biographers admit he was something of an enigma, but he was clearly as devoted to God as he was to physics.

He maintained often that there is no contradiction between Catholicism and science.

But he also kept these two disciplines within their own delineated boundaries.

When Pope Pius XII proposed that astronomical discoveries might reveal proof of the existence of God, LeMaitre disagreed.

THIS is what I find too odd to ignore. If he disagreed his discoveries might prove the existence of God.... why???

It almost seems as if he was afraid to admit his true beliefs that the rest of the scientific community would not find him so credible.... OR that he just sees no relation that God might have created that tiny point in the beginning....  Either way I am still looking to find out what any scientist who may or maynot be a a believer has to say about why (the purpose)  life came into being in the first place.

That's it... from me... I am tired of reading about him.

As for me I am willing to accept that the ground may well be 13.8 billion years old. But not life. I will not buy the possible 4.5 billion years of science for life either.... But possibly 200,000 could be.

I firmly believe though that life came about before what we are  led to believe would be 6K, 7K, or 13K years ago.

And if LeMaitre, Hubble.... or even any physicist who espouses the big bang can be definitively proven right then what we are told in Genesis would be wrong.

Especially the Spirit hovering over those waters while the earth was without form, and void. Where did those waters come from
pre- expansion... or even pre-big band.

The two accounts are a mystery.....

But are never addressed anywhere.

4WD

Quote from: Rella on Thu Mar 02, 2023 - 06:42:56THIS is what I find too odd to ignore. If he disagreed his discoveries might prove the existence of God.... why???
Because, unlike the pope, Lemaitre was intelligent enough and wise enough to know that there is no such thing as proof for the existence of God.  God, obviously, has made that impossible to do.

Alan

Lamaitre maintained until his death in 1966 that the origin of the universe was initiated by God, his research pushed the origins of the universe back to a precise moment in time, but never did he make a claim that the origins of the universe and creation by God were two separate things.

Alan

Quote from: 4WD on Thu Mar 02, 2023 - 09:28:38
Because, unlike the pope, Lemaitre was intelligent enough and wise enough to know that there is no such thing as proof for the existence of God.  God, obviously, has made that impossible to do.
True, it was his faith that allowed him to believe it to be true.

Powered by EzPortal