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Happy Lord's Day

Started by Texas Conservative, Sun Jan 14, 2024 - 08:33:21

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Texas Conservative

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 08, 2024 - 20:28:47Why? He was in the Spirit experiencing a vision ABOUT the Day of the Lord. Why is the day of the week relevant or sensible? Is Sunday the only day one could be "in the Spirit"? Also if it is definitively Sunday, why no other reference in the NT for such a momentous declaration and game changer? If I am mistaken please show me the other occurences of the term Lord's Day.

The text doesn't say "Day of the Lord" in Rev 1:10.  In the Greek it is still "Lord's Day."  Context shows place (Patmos), time "Lord's Day."  A colloquialism for the day of the resurrection.  It is sensible to include to provide a setting.  The bible is a narrative, and John is providing a setting for his vision.  I don't abide in CENI, so I don't need to make John being in Patmos having a vision on a Sunday into an example to take as a command.

Your assumption that John references being in the Spirit on a Sunday would be a game changer.  I see it as more of a matter of fact.  If John had said it was a Tuesday when he got a vision, big whoop. 


Texas Conservative

Quote from: Jaime on Fri Feb 09, 2024 - 07:08:52No weaker than your logic.

I would say it is.  Rev 1:10 in Greek, the original written language of the book says "Lord's Day."  Not "Day of the Lord."

It's pretty plain that it isn't the "Day of the Lord."  Right there in words.


Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri Feb 09, 2024 - 07:28:21I would say it is.  Rev 1:10 in Greek, the original written language of the book says "Lord's Day."  Not "Day of the Lord."

It's pretty plain that it isn't the "Day of the Lord."  Right there in words.

If the penman had a bias it would be easy to express that bias with this change. The day was irrelevant especially since it is a term not ever mentioned elsewhere in the NT. The subject and context of the entire book is the Day of the Lord. I don't believe John was skilled in Greek. He was a peasant from Gallilee. Someone else likely did the finished Greek text with bias. Kind of like the Masoretic bias exposed in the translation of Seth's descendants in Genesis where 100 years was removed from their ages for a biased reason different than the Greek Septuagint.


I couldn't add this to the previous post. Talks about the purposefulMasoretic text revision in Genesis. Most of our Bibles including the KJV and my NASB are corrupted by this and other biases.


The "Lord's day" of the Catholic church can be traced no nearer to John than A.D. 194, or perhaps, in strict truth, to A.D. 200, and those who then use the name show plainly that they did not believe it to be the Lord's day by apostolic appointment. To hide these fatal facts by seeming to trace the title back to Ignatius; the disciple of John, and thus to identify Sunday with the Lord's day of that apostle, a series of remarkable frauds has been committed, which we have had occasion to examine. But even could the Sunday Lord's day be traced to Ignatius, the disciple of John, it would then come no nearer being an apostolic institution than does the Catholic festival of the Passover, which can be traced to Polycarp, another of John's disciples, who claimed to have received it from John himself! (THE HISTORY OF THE SABBATH by J.N. Andrews pgs. 166 & 7.)

"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday. Perhaps at the end of the second century a false application of this kind had begun to take place; for men appear by that time to have considered laboring on Sunday as a sin." (Neander's Church History, translated by H. J. Rose, p. 186.)

"Modern Christians who talk of keeping Sunday as a 'holy' day, as in the still extant 'Blue Laws,' of colonial America, should know that as a 'holy' day of rest and cessation from labor and amusements Sunday was unknown to Jesus . . . It formed no tenet [teaching] of the primitive Church and became 'sacred' only in the course of time. Outside the Church its observance was legalized for the Roman Empire through a series of decrees starting with the famous one of Constantine in 321, an edict due to his political and social ideas." (W, W. Hyde, "Paganism to Christianity in the Roman Empire," 1946, p. 257.)

"The Church made a sacred day of Sunday . . . largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun;--for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance." (Arthur Weigall, "The Paganism in Our Christianity," 1928, p. 145.)

"Remains of the struggle [between the religion of Christianity and the religion of Mithraism] are found in two institutions adopted from its rival by Christianity in the fourth century, the two Mithraic sacred days: December 25, 'dies natalis solis' [birthday of the sun], as the birthday of Jesus,--and Sunday, 'the venerable day of the Sun,' as Constantine called it in his edict of 321." (Walter Woodburn Hyde, "Paganism to Christianity in the Roman Empire," p. 60.)

"Constantine labored at this time untiringly to unite the worshipers of the old and the new into one religion. All his laws and contrivances are aimed at promoting this amalgamation of religions. He would by all lawful and peaceable means melt together a purified heathenism and a moderated Christianity . . . Of all his blending and melting together of Christianity and heathenism, none is more easy to see through than this making of his Sunday law: The Christians worshiped their Christ, the heathen their Sun-god . . . [so they should now be combined." (H.G. Heggtveit, "illustreret Kirkehistorie," 1895, p. 202.)

As we have already noted, excepting for the Roman and Alexandrian Christians, the majority of Christians were observing the seventh-day Sabbath at least as late as the middle of the fifth century [A.D. 450]. The Roman and Alexandrian Christians were among those converted from heathenism. They began observing Sunday as a merry religious festival in honor of the Lord's resurrection, about the latter half of the second century A.D. However, they did not try to teach that the Lord or His apostles commanded it. In fact, no ecclesiastical writer before Eusebius of Caesarea in the fourth century even suggested that either Christ or His apostles instituted the observance of the first day of the week.

"These Gentile Christians of Rome and Alexandria began calling the first day of the week 'the Lord's day.' This was not difficult for the pagans of the Roman Empire who were steeped in sun worship to accept, because they [the pagans] referred to their sun-god as their 'Lord.' "--EM. Chalmers, (How Sunday Came Into the Christian Church, p. 3.)

"What began, however, as a pagan ordinance, ended as a Christian regulation; and a long series of imperial decrees, during the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, enjoined with increasing stringency abstinence from labor on Sunday." (Huttan Webster, "Rest Days," pp. 122-123, 210.)

"A history of the problem shows that in some places, it was really only after some centuries that the Sabbath rest really was entirely abolished, and by that time the practice of observing a bodily rest on the Sunday had taken its place . . . It was the seventh day of the week which typified the rest of God after creation, and not the first day. " (Vincent Jo Kelly, Forbidden Sunday and Feast day Occupations, 1943, pp. 15, 22 [This Catholic University Press publication was written by a priest of the Redemptorist order].)

"The early Christians had at first adopted the Jewish seven-day week with its numbered week days, but by the close of the third century A.D. this began to give way to the planetary week; and in the fourth and fifth centuries the pagan designations became generally accepted in the western half of Christendom. The use of the planetary names by Christians attests the growing influence of astrological speculations introduced by converts from paganism . . . During these same centuries the spread of Oriental solar [sun] worships, especially that of Mithra [Persian sun worship], in the Roman world, had already led to the substitution by pagans of dies Solis for dies Saturni, as the first day of the planetary week. Thus gradually a pagan institution was engrafted on Christianity." (Hutton Webster, Rest Days, pp. 220-221. [Webster (1875-?), was an author, historian, and professor at the University of Nebraska].)

"The last day of the week was strictly kept in connection with that of the first day for a long time after the overthrow of the temple and its worship. Down even to the fifth century the Observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church, but with a rigor and solemnity gradually diminishing until it was wholly discontinued." (Coleman  Ancient Christianity Exemplified, chap. 26, sec. 2, p. 527.)

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