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Fellowship With Transgenders

Started by NyawehNyoh, Thu May 09, 2024 - 21:00:24

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NyawehNyoh

.
FAQ: Should Christians shun transgenders?

REPLY: Absolutely not!

Transgendering isn't specifically addressed in the Bible, viz: it's a gray area, and as such ought to be approached in accord with the 14th chapter of Romans which says, in so many words, that we are not permitted to engage Christian transgenders with debating nor abuse them with judgmental criticism.

Transgendering is a rough road to travel due to embarrassing therapy regimens; and side effects, complications, negative public opinion, doubts, regrets, disappointment, and mood swings that many would rather not talk about. So be especially careful with your dialogue so as not to push them to the point where you'll be forcing them to maintain their poise with fibs.

A little empathy, and a whole lot of tact and courtesy, can be very useful in helping someone get thru the day, ergo: don't become a hell for transgenders, instead, become a haven because people really ought to feel safe with Christians instead of wary.

Matt 7:12 . . So in everything: do to others what you would have them do to you.
_

Texas Conservative

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Thu May 09, 2024 - 21:00:24Transgendering isn't specifically addressed in the Bible, viz: it's a gray area, and as such ought to be approached in accord with the 14th chapter of Romans which says, in so many words, that we are not permitted to engage Christian transgenders with debating nor abuse them with judgmental criticism.

This is not biblically accurate.  You are severely misusing Romans 14, and as such, you should not give any advice to anyone.

Genesis says "He made them male and female."  Up until recently, gender and sex were synonyms.

Under the law, in Deuteronomy 22:5 it was forbidden for men to wear women's clothes and women to wear men's clothes. 

NyawehNyoh

.
I have yet to figure out why it is that so many Christians are in the habit of conflating gender dysphoria with gays and lesbians; but I suspect the mistake is due to a failure on their part to research the condition-- easily done by simply taking the time to look for it on YouTube.

From what I've learned thus far: gender dysphoric folk are not what I'd call a bad influence. For the most part they are simply harmless guys and girls who truly believed they'd be happier as the opposite sex; and actually quite a few do find satisfaction in that direction; though of course many oftentimes discover that the dream was better than the reality as there are some rather inconvenient complications associated with their surgeries.
_

NyawehNyoh

.
Beware of profiling!

For example it is the personal belief of some that if you're a white man, then you are automatically a toxic male. Is that true? No, of course not, because not every white guy is a bad person; in point of fact: quite a few white guys are very decent folks. You see; profiling fails to take into account an individual's personal characteristics.

In the same vein, not every transgender person is militant, nor are they all political activists, nor are they all together unified to poison the minds of young children. In point of fact, many of the transgenders I've reviewed on YouTube are anxious to warn children about the hazards associated with altering their sex.

Therefore I highly recommend dealing with transgenders on an individual basis, i.e. one at a time, viz: should you meet with a transgender, resist jumping to conclusions-- first get to know that person before deciding how best to classify their thinking because if there is one thing on this earth that everybody despises it's a prejudiced bigot, and too many Christians I encounter online are exactly that.
_

Texas Conservative

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Fri May 10, 2024 - 10:37:57.
I have yet to figure out why it is that so many Christians are in the habit of conflating gender dysphoria with gays and lesbians; but I suspect the mistake is due to a failure on their part to research the condition-- easily done by simply taking the time to look for it on YouTube.

From what I've learned thus far: gender dysphoric folk are not what I'd call a bad influence. For the most part they are simply harmless guys and girls who truly believed they'd be happier as the opposite sex; and actually quite a few do find satisfaction in that direction; though of course many oftentimes discover that the dream was better than the reality as there are some rather inconvenient complications associated with their surgeries.
_

You have more to learn.

There is a difference between gender dysphoria and the indoctrination of today's youth. 

Not to mention that leftist groups and those doctors making money off these confused individuals.

Texas Conservative

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Fri May 10, 2024 - 10:39:11.
Beware of profiling!

For example it is the personal belief of some that if you're a white man, then you are automatically a toxic male. Is that true? No, of course not, because not every white guy is a bad person; in point of fact: quite a few white guys are very decent folks. You see; profiling fails to take into account an individual's personal characteristics.

In the same vein, not every transgender person is militant, nor are they all political activists, nor are they all together unified to poison the minds of young children. In point of fact, many of the transgenders I've reviewed on YouTube are anxious to warn children about the hazards associated with altering their sex.

Therefore I highly recommend dealing with transgenders on an individual basis, i.e. one at a time, viz: should you meet with a transgender, resist jumping to conclusions-- first get to know that person before deciding how best to classify their thinking because if there is one thing on this earth that everybody despises it's a prejudiced bigot, and too many Christians I encounter online are exactly that.
_

Treating people with respect is fine.  I agree with that.  I don't agree with your misuse of scripture.

NyawehNyoh

#6
.
If you ask me: the real sinners in the world of transgender are the parents, and the supposedly competent adults in education and the medical professions, who encourage kids as young as 12 and 13 to start on cross-sex chemicals which in time have the potential to result in sterility, early-onset menopause, and irreversible changes to a kid's physical characteristics.

The tragedy of it all is that quite a few youngsters are experimenting with transgendering while too young to fully comprehend the gravity of what they are doing to themselves. For example when pre-pubescent girls are told they may never be able to have children of their own should they choose to go the distance with transgendering, many don't care because they haven't matured enough yet to perceive what it's like to be a mommy. Pre-pubescent girls often view children as a messy nuisance.

And then there's also the permanent loss of libido; which is a loss common to both boys and girls. Pre-pubescent kids have yet to experience full-on libido and thus are unable to appreciate its value in adulthood.

For example; my first experience with chemo-therapy for esophageal cancer quenched my normal libido considerably; and I began regarding women as unsanitary beasts rather than the alluring creatures they're meant to be. Well; I was very relieved when my libido got back up to speed after completing chemo, but kids who pursue transgendering to the max quite possibly will never even get to have a taste of that particular fact of life.

So-called "informed consent" isn't possible with pre-pubescent kids because they just simply aren't old enough yet to appreciate the risks. For example: we were babysitting a good friend's little girl one evening while watching Michael Jackson perform on the television. Teen-age girls in the audience were screaming and weeping; so our friend's little girl wanted to know why they were crying like that. My wife explained: "When you get older; you'll understand" Well I can just about guarantee that with enough cross-sex chemicals in their systems (e.g. testosterone and puberty blocker) little girls will never be old enough to understand and thus they'll miss the star-struck excitement that makes a growing girl's teen-age years so special.
_

Hobie

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Fri May 10, 2024 - 10:37:57.
I have yet to figure out why it is that so many Christians are in the habit of conflating gender dysphoria with gays and lesbians; but I suspect the mistake is due to a failure on their part to research the condition-- easily done by simply taking the time to look for it on YouTube.

From what I've learned thus far: gender dysphoric folk are not what I'd call a bad influence. For the most part they are simply harmless guys and girls who truly believed they'd be happier as the opposite sex; and actually quite a few do find satisfaction in that direction; though of course many oftentimes discover that the dream was better than the reality as there are some rather inconvenient complications associated with their surgeries.
_
When they confront your daughter in the shower at school, you may gain true understanding...

NyawehNyoh

.
Probably no entertainer understood a child's need for acceptance better than Mr. Rogers.

Herein are the lyrics to one of his songs-- addressed to every kid watching his show regardless of age, race, and/or gender. It's sort of self explanatory; so I offer no comments to go with it.

I like you as you are.
Exactly and precisely,
I think you turned out nicely;
And I like you as you are.

I like you as you are.
Without a doubt or question,
Or even a suggestion;
Cause I like you as you are.

I like your disposition,
Your facial composition,
And with your kind permission,
I'll shout it to a star.

I like you as you are.
I wouldn't want to change you,
Or even rearrange you;
Not by far.

I like you.
I L-I-K-E Y-O-U
I like you, yes I do.
I like you, Y-O-U,
I like you: like you as you are.

Music and Lyrics by Josie Carey & Fred Rogers
© McFeely-Rogers Foundation.
All Rights Reserved.

_

Jaime

#9
Parents need to "like" their children enough to protect them and steer them away from such destructive behavior. Every child has an identity  crisis from time to time. It is the parent's obligation  and duty to help them navigate rather than succumb to harmful peer pressure. Whacking their genitals off and giving them hormone therapy because they are temporarily confused is ABUSE.

NyawehNyoh

#10
.
FAQ: Why do the transgender movers and shakers insist upon starting children as young as 12-13 on the road to changing their sex?

REPLY: In order for transgenders to successfully pass as women, and/or successfully pass as men; they pretty much have to begin making changes to their body in sync with nature's puberty clock; which presents a relatively brief window of opportunity.

Should they begin transitioning after the window has expired-- say at 17 or 18 -- their body will very likely be stuck in whatever physical configuration nature gave it. In other words: transitioning girls will be stuck with hips and a soft appearance etc, and transitioning boys will be stuck with whiskers and a rugged appearance etc.

So timing is crucial in the transgender process; which can actually work to a parent's advantage. If moms and dads can manage to keep their underage children off of cross-sex medications during those critical puberty years, it will become much easier in the long run to persuade them to stay as they are because adult boys and girls are typically lots more sensible, and a lot less impressionable, than those in the 12-13 range.
_

Hobie

Quote from: Jaime on Sat May 11, 2024 - 09:40:10Parents need to "like" their children enough to protect them and steer them away from such destructive behavior. Every child has an isentity crisis from time to time. It is the parent's obligation  and duty to help them navigate rather than succumb to harmful peer pressure. Whacking their genitals off and giving them hormone therapy because they are temporarily confused is ABUSE.
And what happens if they change their mind as some have...

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri May 10, 2024 - 11:44:46Treating people with respect is fine.  I agree with that.  I don't agree with your misuse of scripture.
Even that is tricky... "deadnaming" and "misgendering" are considered terrible offenses by some...

Jaime

#13
Quote from: Hobie on Sat May 11, 2024 - 14:50:08And what happens if they change their mind as some have...

Changing their mind IS What should happen prior to mutilation. Parents should NOT jump quickly to help facilitate. Same with any adolescent impulse. Cries for help are sometime non-verbal in nature, such as the impmilse to cut one's self as my wife has seen many times in adolescent girls over the years in her job as a school.

NyawehNyoh

.
Quote from: Jaime on Sun May 12, 2024 - 07:03:50Changing their mind IS What should happen prior to mutilation.

Some girls choose to keep their uterus just in case they change their minds about becoming a mommy. But the thing is: +/- two years of taking cross-sex medications during puberty can cause a growing girl's uterus to become permanently atrophied and no more fertile than a plastic throw-away shopping bag. So even should girls decide to keep their uterus, they are at risk of losing its use for the rest of their lives if they don't stop taking cross-sex medications in time to save it.
_

NyawehNyoh

#15
.
Eve was the first to taste the forbidden fruit, and when she did; nothing happened. She went right on unashamed in the buff the same as before, viz: it wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that Eve became sensitive about her body's appearance naked.

Now the thing is: Eve was constructed with material taken from Adam's body, but she was already fully formed and fully sentient prior to his tasting the fruit so it was too late for Adam's eating to effect Eve by means of heredity.

So: if Eve's feelings about her naked body weren't altered by means of the fruit, and if her feelings weren't altered by means of heredity; then by what?

Mr. Serpent is the logical source (a.k.a. the Devil & Satan, Rev 20:2) He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover their pelvic areas.


FAQ: So you think this Devil of yours has something to do with the current wave of gender dysphoria?

REPLY: Yes.

FAQ: The entire gender dysphoria mechanism? --educators, students, medical professionals, psychiatric counselors, parents, and various government agencies at State and Federal levels, etc --are caught up in some sort of paranormal master plan?

REPLY: Yes.

* Ironically the progressive element in our midst is called "woke" when in reality it is actually under the influence of a very powerful kind of hypnosis about which we thus far know very little; and you hot-shot pulpit pounders out there need to be very careful how you behave yourselves in talks with these folks.

"The Lord's servants must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone. They must be able to teach effectively, and be patient with difficult people. They should gently teach those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will believe the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the Devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants." (2Tim 2:23-26)
_

NyawehNyoh

.
A full transgender process typically includes psychiatric counseling, cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers, and specialized surgery. Unfortunately the results of a full process aren't always satisfactory, rather, quite disappointing as patients sometimes find themselves saddled with inconvenient side effects and unpleasant complications.

To top it off: thus far the process has been unable to replicate real men and women. No; at best the process has managed to produce only artificial men and women that don't function near as well as patients were led to expect.

But that's not all-- there's also the afterlife to consider, which has the potential to make transgendering a futile expenditure of one's resolve.

John 3:1-2 . . Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said: "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

Pharisees in that day were very pious men-- typically educated, and highly respected. To my knowledge, this man was neither gay nor afflicted with gender dysphoria. So considering his qualities; Jesus' response is very curious.

John 3:3 . . In reply Jesus declared: "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

The Greek word translated "again" basically means from above. In other words, Jesus wasn't speaking of a ritual or a sacred rite; no, he was speaking of an act of God.

The thing to note is that this particular act of God isn't optional, rather, it's required, i.e. there are no exceptions and no exemptions to this rule regardless of one's moral perfections and/or imperfections, and regardless of age, race, religion, social/financial/political status, and/or gender identity.

John 3:7 . . You must be born again.

We're all equals in that respect, therefore:

Rom 15:5-7 . . May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
_

Hobie

#17
Something odd..

NyawehNyoh

.
Thus far my comments have been relative to folks who've undergone a full transgender process; which typically includes psychiatric counseling, cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers, and specialized surgery.

I am very tolerant of those people, whereas I am greatly discontented with guys competing in women's sports whose bodies fail to display even the slightest hint of femininity, i.e. they are not taking cross-sex hormones, nor have they undergone any of the appropriate surgeries.

In my judicious estimation: guys insisting they are women while still in possession of their full and complete natural manhood, are frauds and shameless cheats right down there in the dirt with the lowest of wolves in sheep's clothing we might name.

I would recommend not only shunning a Christian man who competes in women's sports solely on the basis of his "identifying" as a woman, but to avoid all association with that guy-- both in church and out of church --lest his churlish scruples rub off on us.

1Cor 15:33 . . Do not be misled: Bad company corrupts good character.
_

Hobie

#19
I think this is AI.....Notice the manner of its post, really nonsensical.

NyawehNyoh

.
I suspect quite a few Christians would be very surprised to discover there are numbers of transgendered folk amongst themselves-- male and female, young and old --who don't need evangelizing just as there are numbers of other "sinners" who no longer do.

1Cor 6:9-11 . . Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

The prejudice against transgendered folk is so rampant that it's difficult for them to find a church where they can get a sense of belonging. Personally, I classify them as Christians with special needs; and very few mature believers are willing and/or qualified to provide those needs; choosing instead to write them off as incorrigible scraps.

Something else to take into consideration is de-transgendering. Many have realized they've made a dreadful mistake and are taking that route; which is not entirely possible for some. Those who've gone all-in with radical surgeries are now in a fix that only a full blown resurrection can repair with any realistic expectation of achieving 100% success.

They are not alone. Quite a few Christians out there are earnestly longing for the day when they'll be released from their handicaps and restored to full function. For some; just getting up on their own two feet will be a blessing of joy nigh unto impossible to describe.
_

Wycliffes_Shillelagh

Quote from: Hobie on Sat May 18, 2024 - 03:33:35I think this is AI.....Notice the manner of its post, really nonsensical.
Nope.  He's been blathering like this since before AI existed.

Copy-pasta, I'm sure.  But not AI.

Red Baker

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri May 10, 2024 - 06:32:42This is not biblically accurate.  You are severely misusing Romans 14, and as such, you should not give any advice to anyone.

Genesis says "He made them male and female."  Up until recently, gender and sex were synonyms.

Under the law, in Deuteronomy 22:5 it was forbidden for men to wear women's clothes and women to wear men's clothes. 
Amen!

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Fri May 10, 2024 - 11:44:46Treating people with respect is fine.  I agree with that.  I don't agree with your misuse of scripture.
Amen.

QuoteIf you ask me: the real sinners in the world of transgender are the parents, and the supposedly competent adults in education and the medical professions, who encourage kids as young as 12 and 13 to start on cross-sex chemicals which in time have the potential to result in sterility, early-onset menopause, and irreversible changes to a kid's physical characteristics.
And folks like you, who are willing to twist scriptures to encourage them in their wickedness.


Alan

Quote from: Red BakerAnd folks like you, who are willing to twist scriptures to encourage them in their wickedness.

How did you come up with that from what he said here?;

 
QuoteIf you ask me: the real sinners in the world of transgender are the parents, and the supposedly competent adults in education and the medical professions, who encourage kids as young as 12 and 13 to start on cross-sex chemicals which in time have the potential to result in sterility, early-onset menopause, and irreversible changes to a kid's physical characteristics.


Certainly doesn't look like he's encouraging anyone, he's simply saying the adults are to blame and the young kids are the victims. (in the long run)

Texas Conservative

Quote from: Alan on Mon Jun 10, 2024 - 10:39:18How did you come up with that from what he said here?;

 

Certainly doesn't look like he's encouraging anyone, he's simply saying the adults are to blame and the young kids are the victims. (in the long run)

The OP's use of Romans 14 is where Red got that from.

NyawehNyoh

#25

There's a story told at Luke 7:36-50 about an outcast woman. Well; long story short: one of the religious men present at this dinner judged her on a curve; and in his pious opinion she was at the very bottom, i.e. down in the very muck and mire of human depravity.

But it turned out the fallen woman's degree of piety was vastly superior to the religious man's.

The thing is: he honestly felt that were Jesus a true prophet, he wouldn't allow that deplorable woman to touch him; not even his feet; which she was washing with her own tears and using her own hair as a towel to dry them off.

So beware! Though our pious opinions might be honest, they just might also be honestly wrong instead of right.
_

Texas Conservative

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Mon Jun 10, 2024 - 21:54:00.
There's a story told at Luke 7:36-50 about an outcast woman. Well; long story short: one of the religious men present at this dinner graded her on a curve; and in his opinion she was at the very bottom, i.e. the very dregs of humanity.

But it turned out that fallen woman's degree of piety was vastly superior to the piety of the religious man who honestly felt that Jesus, were he a true prophet, wouldn't have allowed her to touch him; not even his feet; which she was washing with her own tears and using her own hair as a towel to dry them off.
_

What is going on that you are so interested in this topic and are willing to misuse Romans 14 concerning transgenders?  Is there a family member suffering from gender dysphoria?

Alan

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Jun 10, 2024 - 10:55:31The OP's use of Romans 14 is where Red got that from.
What was said in that quote that warrants the use of Romans 14? 

Texas Conservative

QuoteTransgendering isn't specifically addressed in the Bible, viz: it's a gray area, and as such ought to be approached in accord with the 14th chapter of Romans which says, in so many words, that we are not permitted to engage Christian transgenders with debating nor abuse them with judgmental criticism.

Rella

Not everyone wants to ....

https://www2.cbn.com/news/us/united-methodists-lose-1m-members-single-day-council-bishops-grieves-mass-exodus

United Methodists Lose 1M Members in a Single Day, Council of Bishops 'Grieves' Mass Exodus

https://spectator.org/methodist-church-first-drag-queen-pastor-god-is-nothing/

Methodist Church's First Drag Queen Pastor: 'God Is Nothing'

And I am one who doesn't. Not wishing them ill but a distance is best for me.

NyawehNyoh

#30

Sometimes culture dictates morality.

For example: I heard tell of a man who lived back east in one of the southern states where it was okay for Christians to use tobacco but not okay for them to appear in public wearing a swim suit

When the man moved to California he discovered the opposite, i.e. it was wrong for Christians to use tobacco while okay for them at a public beach wearing a swim suit.

Rom 14:5 . . One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
_

Texas Conservative

Quote from: NyawehNyoh on Wed Jun 12, 2024 - 07:01:05
Sometimes culture dictates morality.

For example: I heard tell of a man who lived back east in one of the southern states where it was okay for Christians to smoke but not okay for them to appear in public wearing a racy swim suit

When the man moved to California he discovered the opposite, i.e. it was wrong for Christians to smoke while okay for them at a public beach wearing a racy swim suit.

Rom 14:5 . . One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
_

More misuse of scriptures. 

Alan


Quote from: Texas ConservativeTransgendering isn't specifically addressed in the Bible, viz: it's a gray area, and as such ought to be approached in accord with the 14th chapter of Romans which says, in so many words, that we are not permitted to engage Christian transgenders with debating nor abuse them with judgmental criticism.

But that isn't the quote RB used, it does however add clarity to the opposition of NN's take on the subject. It's another one of those things that is not specifically mentioned in the bible, but definitely falls into a category of avoiding sexual deviation. 

armchairscholar

Quote from: Rella on Tue Jun 11, 2024 - 15:15:23https://spectator.org/methodist-church-first-drag-queen-pastor-god-is-nothing/

Methodist Church's First Drag Queen Pastor: 'God Is Nothing'

And I am one who doesn't. Not wishing them ill but a distance is best for me.

This makes me so angry. I've been thinking for a while that this whole Woke/Transgender stuff is straight up Satanic

Alan

Quote from: armchairscholar on Thu Jun 20, 2024 - 05:13:10This makes me so angry. I've been thinking for a while that this whole Woke/Transgender stuff is straight up Satanic
Especially when they target kids, that's just so wrong and it's happening more and more, almost to the point of normalcy, which is scary in itself. 

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