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Jesus didn't know if Heavenly Father accepted His crucifixion? is this true?

Started by Cathlodox, Sat Jun 01, 2024 - 11:40:48

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Cathlodox

SDA's believe that the 2nd Coming has already taken place and attribute this 2nd coming event to Jesus being unsure if Father God accepted Jesus' suffering and death on the Cross.

QuoteEllen White, Early Writings pages 187, 188 quoted also in the Youth Instructor 1852 -1952 centennial edition /
"Jesus quickly ascended to His Father to hear from His lips that He accepted the sacrifice, and to receive all power in heaven and upon earth.... The same day He returned, and showed Himself to His disciples. He suffered them then to touch Him ; for He had ascended to His Father, and had received power."-Early Writings, pp. 187, 188.
 

Is it / would it be appropriate to say that Jesus was uncertain that His sacrifice on the cross was acceptable to the Father and so Jesus needed to "wing his way" to heaven to get the truth of the matter from the "lips" of the Father?

Is there warrant in Scripture to conclude such a thing happened?


Amo

More Babylonian gobbledegook.

SDA's believe no such thing about the second coming.

Jhn 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Jhn 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 5 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Obviously Jesus had ascended to the Father, since the time He told Mary not to touch Him.

Cathlodox

You are avoiding the question Amo.

Ellen said Christ didn't know if His sacrifice was acceptable to the Father so THAT was the reason Ellen said Jesus told Mary not to hold onto Him.

Jesus had things to do and was on a timeline - His telling Mary not to hold Him up had absolutely ZERO to do with Jesus not knowing if He cut the mustard.

Deal with the question and accept reality. Ellen claimed Jesus had to go to heaven to hear from Flesh Father's own lips if His sacrifice was up to par.

Amo

Quote from: Cathlodox on Sat Jun 01, 2024 - 12:58:55You are avoiding the question Amo.

Ellen said Christ didn't know if His sacrifice was acceptable to the Father so THAT was the reason Ellen said Jesus told Mary not to hold onto Him.

Jesus had things to do and was on a timeline - His telling Mary not to hold Him up had absolutely ZERO to do with Jesus not knowing if He cut the mustard.

Deal with the question and accept reality. Ellen claimed Jesus had to go to heaven to hear from Flesh Father's own lips if His sacrifice was up to par.

I'm avoiding nothing, but in your own confused mind. EGW said no such thing. You have imposed that idea upon her words. It is not there. Our Lord was simply continuing His example of submitting to the Father in all things. As is the eternal purpose of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to bring all back to willing obedience to the Father, that God may be all in all.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Jhn 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.







Cathlodox

QuoteAmo said: I'm avoiding nothing, but in your own confused mind. EGW said no such thing. You have imposed that idea upon her words. It is not there.

No Amo, Ellen said Jesus left earth for heaven so that He could hear from Flesh Father's own lips if His (Jesus') death on the cross cut the mustard for God. Its frankly idiotic to argue Ellen didn't say this when you are looking at her "Youth Instructor" quote.

QuoteAmo said: Our Lord was simply continuing His example of submitting to the Father in all things. As is the eternal purpose of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to bring all back to willing obedience to the Father, that God may be all in all.

He submitted all the way to death on the cross - this isn't what we are talking about here. What we're discussing is Ellen White urinating on the following:

Mark 14, 49
Mark 14, 62
Luke 1, 20
Luke 22,37

Luke 24, 25 - 27:
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

That's Jesus saying that the Old Testament spelled out that He would have the victory with zero chance of failure - this is why the Nicene Creed says  everything that happened to Jesus was "ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES". Ellen White says 'NOT SO FAST MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL'.

QuoteEllen White: He had infinite power only because He was perfectly obedient to His Father's will." (Ellen G. White, Manuscript 99, 1903, pp. 3, 4. "Christian Education in Our Schools", September 1, 1903, see also Selected Messages book 3, page 141, chapter 19, 'The incarnation')

According to Ellen Christ was at some point in the ancient past exalted to be "LIKE GOD". This set Lucifer off and made him indignant. Christ was free to keep this "infinite power" so long as he towed the rope and didn't mess his britches.

QuoteEllen White
Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His Deity could not be lost WHILE He stood faithful and true to His loyalty.


Amo

No Cathlodox, you are full of dung, and spew endless gobbledegook.

Cathlodox

Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 08, 2024 - 08:44:39No Cathlodox, you are full of dung, and spew endless gobbledegook.

Everyone can see you didn't justify what your prophet Ellen said about Christ only having ultimate power so long as He obeyed father god.

Nor did you say where I was wrong in saying that Jesus Himself showed His Disciples from the Scriptures that it was impossible He would fail to bring Salvation to the world.

Everyone reading this can see your cop out.


Amo

They can see your gobbledegook, and believe it if they wish. I'll not waste time addressing your nonsense.

Cathlodox

Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 08, 2024 - 12:25:04They can see your gobbledegook, and believe it if they wish. I'll not waste time addressing your nonsense.

I can ask for nothing more.

DaveW

Quote from: Cathlodox on Sat Jun 01, 2024 - 12:58:55Ellen said Christ didn't know if His sacrifice was acceptable to the Father so THAT was the reason Ellen said Jesus told Mary not to hold onto Him.
From an email I received last week:

Why Couldn't Mary Touch Jesus?

The text delves into a perplexing narrative from John's gospel, where post-resurrection, Jesus initially forbids Mary from touching Him but later invites Thomas to do so. This distinction in Jesus' response is explored through the lens of Jewish High Priest purity requirements on the Day of Atonement, where contact with anything ceremonially unclean was prohibited to maintain ritual purity essential for entering God's presence. Jesus, as the ultimate High Priest, was preparing to minister in the heavenly tabernacle (Heb. 9:11), and His caution to Mary was to ensure He remained undefiled, preserving His readiness to serve in a consecrated state. Various factors could have rendered Mary ceremonially unclean, risking Jesus' defilement. However, by the time Jesus encounters Thomas, His priestly duties had been completed, making concerns about defilement irrelevant. This narrative underscores the importance of Jesus' mission and the lengths to which He went to fulfill His role as a priest in the heavenly tabernacle, prior to assuming His roles as prophet and king.

Amo

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Jun 10, 2024 - 09:20:17From an email I received last week:

Why Couldn't Mary Touch Jesus?

The text delves into a perplexing narrative from John's gospel, where post-resurrection, Jesus initially forbids Mary from touching Him but later invites Thomas to do so. This distinction in Jesus' response is explored through the lens of Jewish High Priest purity requirements on the Day of Atonement, where contact with anything ceremonially unclean was prohibited to maintain ritual purity essential for entering God's presence. Jesus, as the ultimate High Priest, was preparing to minister in the heavenly tabernacle (Heb. 9:11), and His caution to Mary was to ensure He remained undefiled, preserving His readiness to serve in a consecrated state. Various factors could have rendered Mary ceremonially unclean, risking Jesus' defilement. However, by the time Jesus encounters Thomas, His priestly duties had been completed, making concerns about defilement irrelevant. This narrative underscores the importance of Jesus' mission and the lengths to which He went to fulfill His role as a priest in the heavenly tabernacle, prior to assuming His roles as prophet and king.

Interesting. Thanks.

Cathlodox

QuoteDaveW said: The text delves into a perplexing narrative from John's gospel, where post-resurrection, Jesus initially forbids Mary from touching Him but later invites Thomas to do so. This distinction in Jesus' response is explored through the lens of Jewish High Priest purity requirements on the Day of Atonement, where contact with anything ceremonially unclean was prohibited to maintain ritual purity essential for entering God's presence. Jesus, as the ultimate High Priest, was preparing to minister in the heavenly tabernacle (Heb. 9:11), and His caution to Mary was to ensure He remained undefiled, preserving His readiness to serve in a consecrated state. Various factors could have rendered Mary ceremonially unclean, risking Jesus' defilement. However, by the time Jesus encounters Thomas, His priestly duties had been completed, making concerns about defilement irrelevant. This narrative underscores the importance of Jesus' mission and the lengths to which He went to fulfill His role as a priest in the heavenly tabernacle, prior to assuming His roles as prophet and king

This is disgusting. Your claiming Jesus may have smelled Mary was on the rag and because Jesus was under the weight of the Levitical ceremonial law THAT is why He didn't allow Mary to touch Him but let Thomas to stick his fingers into His wounds. Classy SDA's! Classy!

This novel excuse still doesn't answer the question of how Ellen White would know Jesus was unclear if the Flesh Father had accepted Jesus' crucifixion stunt.

I'm being totally serious here that the SDA Sabbath isn't a problem at all - it's their militant anti-Trinitarianism.

If DaveW's understanding is correct Jesus had better make sure He has bells on His garments so He doesn't spook the Flesh Father in the temple in Heaven otherwise the Flesh Father could get spooked and kill Michael christ.

Amo

Quote from: Cathlodox on Mon Jun 10, 2024 - 21:38:09This is disgusting. Your claiming Jesus may have smelled Mary was on the rag and because Jesus was under the weight of the Levitical ceremonial law THAT is why He didn't allow Mary to touch Him but let Thomas to stick his fingers into His wounds. Classy SDA's! Classy!

This novel excuse still doesn't answer the question of how Ellen White would know Jesus was unclear if the Flesh Father had accepted Jesus' crucifixion stunt.

I'm being totally serious here that the SDA Sabbath isn't a problem at all - it's their militant anti-Trinitarianism.

If DaveW's understanding is correct Jesus had better make sure He has bells on His garments so He doesn't spook the Flesh Father in the temple in Heaven otherwise the Flesh Father could get spooked and kill Michael christ.

DaveW is not an SDA. A Jewish believer if I recall correctly. Nor did he specify that which you chose to harp upon, but rather as usual, you are putting words into others mouths. We are all defiled before our most holy God. Nevertheless, by all means, please do babble-on.

Cathlodox

Quote from: Amo on Tue Jun 11, 2024 - 04:03:00DaveW is not an SDA. A Jewish believer if I recall correctly. Nor did he specify that which you chose to harp upon, but rather as usual, you are putting words into others mouths. We are all defiled before our most holy God. Nevertheless, by all means, please do babble-on.

What part about Jesus sitting down after He ascended to heaven do you not understand.

A practicing Jew does not believe Jesus was the Christ spoken of in the Old Testament, let alone a Christ who after raised from the dead was worried about the same Old Testament rubrics the Apostles of Christ said had no value pertaining to salvation.

Messianic Jews evidently believe that Christ isn't God Himself but a part of God that could sin and loose His salvation. This is just arianism under a different name than Adventism.

Cathlodox

Amo,

I quoted Ellen White where she said after Jesus rose from the dead He was unclear if the Father accepted his shot at providing salvation to the world.

Now is where you should defend Ellen White from Scripture, reason and SDA tradition as to why she was right in claiming Christ was ignorant as to the value the Father ascribed to Jesus' sinless life, torture and death on the cross.

Amo

Quote from: Cathlodox on Tue Jun 11, 2024 - 20:13:52What part about Jesus sitting down after He ascended to heaven do you not understand.

A practicing Jew does not believe Jesus was the Christ spoken of in the Old Testament, let alone a Christ who after raised from the dead was worried about the same Old Testament rubrics the Apostles of Christ said had no value pertaining to salvation.

Messianic Jews evidently believe that Christ isn't God Himself but a part of God that could sin and loose His salvation. This is just arianism under a different name than Adventism.

Babble-on.

Amo

Quote from: Cathlodox on Tue Jun 11, 2024 - 22:40:58Amo,

I quoted Ellen White where she said after Jesus rose from the dead He was unclear if the Father accepted his shot at providing salvation to the world.

Now is where you should defend Ellen White from Scripture, reason and SDA tradition as to why she was right in claiming Christ was ignorant as to the value the Father ascribed to Jesus' sinless life, torture and death on the cross.

Why would I do that? I have already stated that you have been caught twisting, manipulating, and lying about the words of others too often, for me to waste time responding to your endless false accusations. I believe this was in reference to EGW in particular, if I remember correctly.

You have lost too much credit in my book in any case, to be taken seriously. I don't think you even believe some of the stuff you come up with. Your efforts appear to be more along the lines of distraction, or misdirection, to consume and or waste time which could be far better spent addressing truth. Yes, your efforts are directed at prevention and damage control, not any sincere attempts to arrive at truth.

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