What does the Bible say about a marriage that has never been consummated. I'm going on almost 20 years of unconsummated marriage, and am in fact still a virgin. We have always had a very poor relationship, though we got married as Christians. I don't want to go into the reasons why it's unconsummated except to say that it's a combination psychological\physical issue due to past trauma. I don't think it can be solved. What I want to know is what does the Bible say about this? Are we considered biblically married? I'm desperate for answers.
Well I would say that you are legally and properly married, after all you made vows before God, but not having sex isn't what God wants for you. I would suggest that you/your spouse get professional help and prayer ministry for the damage that this past trauma has caused. If it was abuse, then there are plenty of people who were abused for example, who have gone on to have full sex lives.
IF the one who didn't want sex married the other when they knew they didn't, that was deception, and wrong. Then shouldn't have married anyone. Presumably you have no children either?
: ap481 Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 00:40:35
I don't think it can be solved.
I agree with what chosenone said, I just want to add this peace, "I (you) can do ALL Things through Christ (the anointed One and His anointing) Who strengthens me" It can be solved, you just need to stand on the word of God, find other scripture also to suet your situation. And stand on that! I agree to get help, but if possible make sure that help comes from a Christian, like your pastor...!
: ap481 Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 00:40:35 I'm going on almost 20 years of unconsummated marriage, and am in fact still a virgin.
Tell me you are not serious. I cannot begin to fathom what you have written. I'm thinking this is a joke, OR, you are testing Christians and their beliefs. No one lives with another person in private longer than
five minutes and not make love~at least not where I was born, and being a true blooded male. Something would give somewhere quickly~and I'll leave it there.
: RB Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 05:39:24
Tell me you are not serious. I cannot begin to fathom what you have written. I'm thinking this is a joke, OR, you are testing Christians and their beliefs. No one lives with another person in private longer than five minutes and not make love~at least not where I was born, and being a true blooded male. Something would give somewhere quickly~and I'll leave it there.
What would you suggest RB,
That he rapes her? Or divorces her?
Its a hard situation, one that should have been sorted out long ago, yes. However if someone marries you and doesn't tell you they don't want sex, is that reason to end the marriage?
: RB Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 05:39:24
Tell me you are not serious. I cannot begin to fathom what you have written. I'm thinking this is a joke, OR, you are testing Christians and their beliefs. No one lives with another person in private longer than five minutes and not make love~at least not where I was born, and being a true blooded male. Something would give somewhere quickly~and I'll leave it there.
It's best not to jump to conclusions; there may be some health issue there; we just don't know with the info. provided. There is a sense also that on forums such as this we won't necessarily expect to receive full information, either.
: chosenone Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:02:08
However if someone marries you and doesn't tell you they don't want sex, is that reason to end the marriage?
The Bible is clear not to withhold sex from each other unless you are fasting. However.... That is
not a reason to end the marriage. As a couple, if you are both Christians, Seeking the wisdom of God IS the first line of defense here. If there is healing that need to take place first; bring it to God, together: God IS a God who heals, the body
and the soul! Trust Him... Go slow... Love, and respect each other.... be completely truthful with each other...
Change WILL come!. One last thing (that should have been first ::nodding::)
Read the Bible,and pray together (holding hands is a good start) I will also pray for the two of you. God bless!
: faroukfarouk Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:30:33
It's best not to jump to conclusions; there may be some health issue there; we just don't know with the info. provided. There is a sense also that on forums such as this we won't necessarily expect to receive full information, either.
They said it was issues due to past trauma. Maybe there was severe abuse.
: Faithbuilders Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:34:25
The Bible is clear not to withhold sex from each other unless you are fasting. However.... That is not a reason to end the marriage. As a couple, if you are both Christians, Seeking the wisdom of God IS the first line of defense here. If there is healing that need to take place first; bring it to God, together: God IS a God who heals, the body and the soul! Trust Him... Go slow... Love, and respect each other.... be completely truthful with each other... Change WILL come!. One last thing (that should have been first ::nodding::) Read the Bible,and pray together (holding hands is a good start) I will also pray for the two of you. God bless!
Go slow? How much slower can you get if you've never had sex with your spouse and still waiting - for over 20 years?
: chosenone Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:02:08
However if someone marries you and doesn't tell you they don't want sex, is that reason to end the marriage?
That's not a marriage, and yes, it's ok to end that relationship. If someone marries you, with no intention of having sexual relations with you, and doesn't bother to let you know - that's no marriage and in many states, that so-called marriage can be annulled.
I had a friend in high school who went off to a Christian college and found her dream man. They got married, but after about a year, he still refused to consummate the marriage, so she had her marriage annulled. He said he couldn't/wouldn't have sex with her because of emotional problems from past experiences and accused her of not waiting long enough for him to work it out.
He came out later as gay.
I know of another similar situation where the husband refused to consummate the marriage, so she had the relationship/marriage dissolved. The good thing is, as far as I know, he hasn't entered into a heterosexual relationship with another female under false pretenses.
I'd have given this marriage 3 months. She obviously has issues that prevent her from being a partner in marriage, she's better off alone.
: mommydi Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 15:36:57
That's not a marriage, and yes, it's ok to end that relationship. If someone marries you, with no intention of having sexual relations with you, and doesn't bother to let you know - that's no marriage and in many states, that so-called marriage can be annulled.
I had a friend in high school who went off to a Christian college and found her dream man. They got married, but after about a year, he still refused to consummate the marriage, so she had her marriage annulled. He said he couldn't/wouldn't have sex with her because of emotional problems from past experiences and accused her of not waiting long enough for him to work it out.
He came out later as gay.
I know of another similar situation where the husband refused to consummate the marriage, so she had the relationship/marriage dissolved. The good thing is, as far as I know, he hasn't entered into a heterosexual relationship with another female under false pretenses.
Please show me where God says its ok to end a marriage for this reason.
: chosenone Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 19:04:50
Please show me where God says its ok to end a marriage for this reason.
Please show me in scripture where God says its ok to end a marriage for any reason other than sexual infidelity.
What would you say if the woman had said this man was hitting her? Would you have given her unbiblical counsel to leave the marriage?
: Texas Conservative Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 19:46:21
Please show me in scripture where God says its ok to end a marriage for any reason other than sexual infidelity.
What would you say if the woman had said this man was hitting her? Would you have given her unbiblical counsel to leave the marriage?
If a spouse is violent then the spouse and children need to separate until the violent spouse gets help.
I don't see that that anyone is on danger here. Its needs sorting out, and should have been long ago, but vows have been made.
: chosenone Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 20:05:04
If a spouse is violent then the spouse and children need to separate until the violent spouse gets help.
I don't see that that anyone is on danger here. Its needs sorting out, and should have been long ago, but vows have been made.
Would you recommend divorce in the case of spousal abuse (violence)?
: chosenone Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:02:08What would you suggest RB,
That he rapes her?
Scripturally, there is NO SUCH THING as a man raping his wife....that's called biblical insanity concerning those that believe a person can rape his/her spouse.... Judy, I would
never mention to anyone that my wife had to rape me just to have sex. Judy, I'm beginning to wonder do you ever read your bible? HER BODY belongs to her HUSBAND they are ONE FLESH, and his body BELONGS to his wife, they are ONE BODY. I could heap many reasons why it is IMPOSSIBLE for a person to be guilty of the rape of their spouse. The world has influenced your thinking, NOT the word of God.
Or divorces her?
I do not believe the scriptures teach divorce and remarriage EXCEPT for fornication~ which takes in many sexual sins, and THAT being one of them.
: faroukfarouk Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:30:33It's best not to jump to conclusions
"Jumping"....I do not think so. I would be jumping if they did not have sex within minutes behind close doors.
: mommydi Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 15:36:57I had a friend in high school who went off to a Christian college and found her dream man. They got married, but after about a year, he still refused to consummate the marriage, so she had her marriage annulled. He said he couldn't/wouldn't have sex with her because of emotional problems from past experiences and accused her of not waiting long enough for him to work it out. He came out later as gay.
The man married the wrong
woman man! It will come out sooner or later as to why it took longer than five minutes.
: chosenone Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 19:04:50
Please show me where God says its ok to end a marriage for this reason.
Earlier, you stated this-
However if someone marries you and doesn't tell you they don't want sex, is that reason to end the marriage?
You are describing someone entering a marriage under false pretenses - deceiving his/her future spouse on purpose. Why would God recognize/ordain such a non-union? The question is not whether you think they have a valid marriage, but whether God recognizes it as a valid marriage in the first place.
: mommydi Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 09:54:28
Earlier, you stated this-
You are describing someone entering a marriage under false pretenses - deceiving his/her future spouse on purpose. Why would God recognize/ordain such a non-union? The question is not whether you think they have a valid marriage, but whether God recognizes it as a valid marriage in the first place.
We don't know what they told each other or what was said. Besides that they made promises and vows to each other for better and for worse.
This situation is something that should have been addressed many years ago. There are all sorts of things that as Christians they could have done back then to help sort this out. Prayer ministry and counselling etc.
: chosenone Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 10:42:29
We don't know what they told each other or what was said. Besides that they made promises and vows to each other for better and for worse.
This situation is something that should have been addressed many years ago. There are all sorts of things that as Christians they could have done back then to help sort this out. Prayer ministry and counselling etc.
The same could apply to an abusive spouse, if the unbiblical advice of divorcing a spouse for abuse fits, so should the unbiblical advice of leaving a marriage for zero intimacy.
: Alan Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 13:11:36
The same could apply to an abusive spouse, if the unbiblical advice of divorcing a spouse for abuse fits, so should the unbiblical advice of leaving a marriage for zero intimacy.
Separation because the spouse or children are in danger is completely different. I didn't say divorce, I said separation.
If one person enters the marriage under false pretenses and has no intention of becoming sexually active with the spouse, and refuses to consummate the marriage, then I'm still not sure they're married in God's eyes. Why would they be?
: chosenone Fri Sep 14, 2018 - 23:12:58
Well I would say that you are legally and properly married, after all you made vows before God, but not having sex isn't what God wants for you. I would suggest that you/your spouse get professional help and prayer ministry for the damage that this past trauma has caused. If it was abuse, then there are plenty of people who were abused for example, who have gone on to have full sex lives.
IF the one who didn't want sex married the other when they knew they didn't, that was deception, and wrong. Then shouldn't have married anyone. Presumably you have no children either?
I know that we are legally married, we did make vows. I've heard arguments before that the because the marriage has never been consummated, the vows have never really been fulfilled in the eyes of God, but I have no idea if this is true or not. We've gotten much professional help. We've been to 3 sex therapists, sexual abuse therapists, marriage counselors, our pastors, elders, we've prayed together for years (not consistently). None of it has changed a thing. She did not say we wouldn't have sex after we got married, but she did make a statement once along those lines that make me think in essence that's what she was saying. She said that, "You better initiate spiritual behavior, praying, evangelism, bible reading, more than you initiate sexual things." This should have been a warning sign to me that sex was not going to happen. In retrospect, maybe this statement was a veiled statement that she never wanted to have sex. And there are no children, which has caused me tremendous grief because I basically lied to my family about why we didn't have children. If I were to tell them it was because it was unconsummated, they would have made life a living hell for my wife. I'm getting near 60 now and still a virgin, being in this situation is starting to catch up with me and is affecting me spiritually in bizarre ways. I can almost barely stand to be in the same house as my wife anymore. I've had to curb my sexual desire so much for my wife that now when I look at her trying to avoid sexual thoughts completely as it feels like lust. Living with a woman who you are married to, but can't look at sexually has become a living hell for me that I can't find answers to in the Bible.
: ap481 Tue Sep 18, 2018 - 08:24:43
I know that we are legally married, we did make vows. I've heard arguments before that the because the marriage has never been consummated, the vows have never really been fulfilled in the eyes of God, but I have no idea if this is true or not. We've gotten much professional help. We've been to 3 sex therapists, sexual abuse therapists, marriage counselors, our pastors, elders, we've prayed together for years (not consistently). None of it has changed a thing. She did not say we wouldn't have sex after we got married, but she did make a statement once along those lines that make me think in essence that's what she was saying. She said that, "You better initiate spiritual behavior, praying, evangelism, bible reading, more than you initiate sexual things." This should have been a warning sign to me that sex was not going to happen. In retrospect, maybe this statement was a veiled statement that she never wanted to have sex. And there are no children, which has caused me tremendous grief because I basically lied to my family about why we didn't have children. If I were to tell them it was because it was unconsummated, they would have made life a living hell for my wife. I'm getting near 60 now and still a virgin, being in this situation is starting to catch up with me and is affecting me spiritually in bizarre ways. I can almost barely stand to be in the same house as my wife anymore. I've had to curb my sexual desire so much for my wife that now when I look at her trying to avoid sexual thoughts completely as it feels like lust. Living with a woman who you are married to, but can't look at sexually has become a living hell for me that I can't find answers to in the Bible.
What advise have you been given by the pastor, elders, counsellors and therapists? Why do you think that it seems so much worse now after so long? What does she think when she sees that verse Paul wrote about not depriving the other spouse because of the temptation? Does she realise that she is disobeying God?
Was her abuse very severe? Presumably she wasn't desperate for children either?
I do think that you are married in His eyes, but many wouldn't blame you for leaving such a marriage whether its right or wrong. We are supposed to have sex together, ultimately she should probably have remained single.
Whether she might be deemed to be abusive to the OP is one thing. (If the OP were to compile a dossier, I'm sure it could in theory be drawn up - at a certain level - convincingly.)
Whether the OP wants - should want - to label her an abuser is another. It all goes back to the promise of loving one's spouse. Which relates to the nature of Divine love taking the initiative to love, even when we were unlovable. (John's First Epistle, etc.)
: chosenone Tue Sep 18, 2018 - 18:25:04
What advise have you been given by the pastor, elders, counsellors and therapists? Why do you think that it seems so much worse now after so long? What does she think when she sees that verse Paul wrote about not depriving the other spouse because of the temptation? Does she realise that she is disobeying God?
Was her abuse very severe? Presumably she wasn't desperate for children either?
I do think that you are married in His eyes, but many wouldn't blame you for leaving such a marriage whether its right or wrong. We are supposed to have sex together, ultimately she should probably have remained single.
Advice has been to pray about it, see more therapists, no real solutions. Most of our religious leaders seem to think that it's very difficult to solve our marriage problems without having a physical relationship there too. Other than "just do it", because the Bible says so, there doesn't seem to be any answers. Most therapists know how to "rekindle", they don't know what to do with us because rekindling doesn't work. We end up back at nothing. It's seems so worse for me now because my mother died a few years ago and I lied to her so much about why we didn't have children and I'm feeling tremendous guilt over it. Also, my mother was my closest human relationship and I realize with my wife we aren't close at all. I told myself for years, that married couples didn't really have sex, so it wasn't a big deal if we didn't. I realize that I've lied to myself and my whole family about this, and it's crushed me. I just can't do it anymore, but the problem is I'm left with nothing if I try to deal with it. My wife did have severe abuse which is a major reason why it hasn't been consummated. Honestly, I know she loves kids, but it's something we never talked about because it was always a moot subject with not being able to have sex. What's worse is I'm questioning all these years I've tried to stay pure. Our dating relationship was pure and it seems like it was huge mistake. I just "don't feel married" at this point, we've been in separate bedrooms for years, and I just don't see a solution to it. We belong to a church that doesn't believe in divorce, so I would have to pretty much leave it to get divorced. I guess what I want to hear is that from a biblical perspective we were never married, but no one has ever told me this and probably won't. I don't know what to do.... It's a horrible situation to have to burn in lust over your wife in marriage for so long.
: ap481 Wed Sep 19, 2018 - 01:04:35I told myself for years, that married couples didn't really have sex, so it wasn't a big deal if we didn't. .............
How do you think you got here?
: ap481 on: Today at 01:04:35 It's a horrible situation to have to burn in lust over your wife in marriage for so long.
What you are saying just does not add up, you are lying not to yourself but to us. If you put two people in a cell for twenty years without sex, they would have it between themselves... 99% sure of that~the one percent would fear God and not do so, but they WOULD relieve themselves somehow.
: ap481« on: Yesterday at 08:24:43I've had to curb my sexual desire so much for my wife that now when I look at her trying to avoid sexual thoughts completely as it feels like lust.
Disagree~99% of men would begin to hate her the first week she refuses to have sex.
2nd Samuel 13:1-15 the story of Amon and Tamar proves that. I think you are playing on simpleminded Christians who are very merciful to others problems and disappointments in life. Your words just do not add up to REALITY, and the word of God which is the truth on every given
practical matter involving man and woman~man, and man, woman, and woman.
: RB Wed Sep 19, 2018 - 04:42:52
How do you think you got here? What you are saying just does not add up, you are lying not to yourself but to us. If you put two people in a cell for twenty years without sex, they would have it between themselves... 99% sure of that~the one percent would fear God and not do so, but they WOULD relieve themselves somehow.Disagree~99% of men would begin to hate her the first week she refuses to have sex. 2nd Samuel 13:1-15 the story of Amon and Tamar proves that. I think you are playing on simpleminded Christians who are very merciful to others problems and disappointments in life. Your words just do not add up to REALITY, and the word of God which is the truth on every given practical matter involving man and woman~man, and man, woman, and woman.
I'm not lying to you, everything I wrote here is 100% true. I never said I didn't relieve myself. I often masturbate thinking about my wife, thinking that was ok, but in reality it's not. I'm sorry if you don't think this situation is real, trust me it's very real. Your response is partly the reason why I haven't been able to get any help on it. No one knows what to do or say. It comes down to "get a divorce" or "pray about it". That's it.....
: ap481 Wed Sep 19, 2018 - 08:31:00
No one knows what to do or say. It comes down to "get a divorce" or "pray about it". That's it.....
One could ask: When does it become inappropriate to pray? The recourse to God's grace is still there even in 'the furnace of affliction' (Isaiah 48.10).
So no answers really right? Can't divorce, just stay "married"? Or fake married it seems.
: ap481 Mon Oct 08, 2018 - 00:46:53
So no answers really right? Can't divorce, just stay "married"? Or fake married it seems.
Did your wife tell you that she didn't want sex before you married?
ap481 - I am going to presume you are presenting a bona-fide case here with a sincere request for some advice.
May I offer a suggestion that has not been introduced yet? You have said that as a couple you have run the gamut of multiple therapeutic solutions. In your experience, has anyone proposed the EMDR method of counseling? It appears your situation would be ideally suited to use this approach, which is able to target and heal traumatic memories of either short or long duration, and of recent or long-past occurrence. Please do yourself and your spouse a favor and do some online research about this particular method of treatment. If you are able to locate a counselor nearby who is proficient in this, there are excellent, rapid results that can be achieved, in comparison to other types of therapy. If the practitioner is a Christian into the bargain - so much the better - but this is not a necessity for EMDR to be of real benefit on multiple fronts.
God bless your efforts at finding a healing solution, regardless of which angle He brings that help from. Whatever decisions you make about this should be based on the fact that "God hath called us to PEACE". Our lives as Christians should aim for this peace within ourself, among others of the world if possible, and with our spouse. You have my prayers as you labor to achieve this.
: chosenone Mon Oct 08, 2018 - 07:05:18
Did your wife tell you that she didn't want sex before you married?
In a veiled sense she did. She said that I better initiate prayer, Bible reading and other spiritual activities more than sex with her. Consequently this has always made me very insecure about initiating sex with her.
: 3 Resurrections Mon Oct 08, 2018 - 13:39:55
ap481 - I am going to presume you are presenting a bona-fide case here with a sincere request for some advice.
May I offer a suggestion that has not been introduced yet? You have said that as a couple you have run the gamut of multiple therapeutic solutions. In your experience, has anyone proposed the EMDR method of counseling? It appears your situation would be ideally suited to use this approach, which is able to target and heal traumatic memories of either short or long duration, and of recent or long-past occurrence. Please do yourself and your spouse a favor and do some online research about this particular method of treatment. If you are able to locate a counselor nearby who is proficient in this, there are excellent, rapid results that can be achieved, in comparison to other types of therapy. If the practitioner is a Christian into the bargain - so much the better - but this is not a necessity for EMDR to be of real benefit on multiple fronts.
God bless your efforts at finding a healing solution, regardless of which angle He brings that help from. Whatever decisions you make about this should be based on the fact that "God hath called us to PEACE". Our lives as Christians should aim for this peace within ourself, among others of the world if possible, and with our spouse. You have my prayers as you labor to achieve this.
This is 100% a real true situation. I'm not making it up. We have never tried that type of therapy, I suppose it's worth looking into. Thanks for the suggestion and your kind words. There are times I've felt like just separating and staying single the rest of my life. One of the problems I think is that we have never had a good relationship from the beginning. I've never felt loved by her and this situation has just made it worse.
: ap481 Fri Oct 12, 2018 - 01:25:23
In a veiled sense she did. She said that I better initiate prayer, Bible reading and other spiritual activities more than sex with her. Consequently this has always made me very insecure about initiating sex with her.
I just wonder why you didn't talk about this with her before you married. Its a massive thing to know that you are going to refuse any sex, and not even have children because of it, yet get married anyway.
I feel for you, and I do wonder if you have seen another lady you like? After all, this has been going on for 20 years now so why wait so long and suddenly now be wanting to leave?
ap481 - If you are interested at all in researching this therapy method, the first step I would take if I were you would be to purchase the following book and read it from cover to cover. "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel Van Der Kolk is an explanation of how the body processes traumatic memories and stores them, and how the brain can be reprogrammed using EMDR to store these memories in a way that they are no longer able to cripple a person's day-to-day ability to function normally. It gives a variety of case studies to show the broad spectrum of individuals whose experiences can be helped using this method. Anyone from the very young child to the very aged is a candidate for this, and the range of trauma can come from sexual abuse, military combat, years of domestic verbal abuse, even witnessing something like a one-time 9-11 tragedy.
What EMDR does is to mimic the way God has given us to process stressful memories while we are sleeping (in the REM phase of our sleeping), only it is done by the EMDR method while the person is awake instead. Personally, I believe every single soldier or first-responder should be offered this EMDR therapy as part of a job benefit package as a matter of course, so that the level of job stress does not build up over time and leak over into their personal and family lives.
If you are able to purchase this book above, let your wife read it as well. An older friend of mine whose extensive traumatic history I can appreciate introduced this book to me and it comes highly recommended by many. As a Christian, we know that God is ultimately the only healer, but He has blessed different means for us to achieve that healing. EMDR I believe is one of those means.
: chosenone Fri Oct 12, 2018 - 09:45:08
I just wonder why you didn't talk about this with her before you married. Its a massive thing to know that you are going to refuse any sex, and not even have children because of it, yet get married anyway.
I feel for you, and I do wonder if you have seen another lady you like? After all, this has been going on for 20 years now so why wait so long and suddenly now be wanting to leave?
I honestly don't know why we didn't talk about it. I knew nothing about sex, wouldn't have even know what to ask or talk about. I guess I just assumed it would happen. If I knew this was going to happen, I wouldn't have done it.
To answer your question, in a sense this has nothing to do with sex or another lady. It has to do that when my mother died 5 years ago, I realized that she was the only one that understood and loved me and my wife never did. I feel so completely unloved it's overwhelming, and now I realize that the no sex is a symptom of that. I realize what we have is no marriage at all. I feel if she would have sex with someone else it wouldn't even bother me because something would be taken away that I've never had to begin with. Why would I care? When I realized how abnormal and bad this was, I started to panic. A better question is why would I get married when I felt so unloved by her? It's because I had no idea what made me feel loved.