Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
I would say that there is a number of reasons. The display of religious differences is one. Too many different views to choose from it is complicated for most. They see it as if Gods children can't agree on the answers then they can't see God as being the one in lead.
Then some are just to rapped up in the world and don't want to give it up.
The list could go on and on.
Most people who don't believe, aren't unbelievers because they have thought it out carefully and examined the evidence and chosen not to believe. Most people who don't believe, don't believe out of laziness or out of drifting along the path of least resistance.
Actually, most believers sort of drift into it too.
People are pretty much creatures of habit.
People are pretty much creatures of habit.
True Janine, and some of them are pretty much just habitual creatures too. ::kiddy::
Many of the unbelievers I know are unbelievers because they think smart people are unbelievers. It's may be another form of that laziness Janine mentioned, or it may be peer pressure. Probably both.
Some others I know are unbelievers in reaction to people like Pat Robertson. Not really rational, but certainly not surprising.
And you know some of the unbelievers I know say at one time they believed but God didn't save someone they loved when they were ill, and let them die, and they just can't believe that God would be like that and let so and so die, because he or she was such a good person.
It is so hard to explain to them that God's ways are not ours, and we can't always see why He does what He does. And that death is a result of sin in this world, not necessarily their loved ones sin but sin in general. Satan is very active in this world and we have to cope with him daily.
Of course, people who say they believe can't understand when someone they love dies, and they have prayed sincerely and over and over for that person to live. But it is so sad that you can't reach them. ::cryingtears::
PEGGY JOYCE, he only didn't save them because the safest place they could be was heaven. If it's your time, he'll tell your guardian Angel not to save you so you can be safe in heaven. ::amen!::
::holdingupflag:: American Heart forever ::holdingupflag::
twd, I am very smart and I believe. It doesn't matter how smart you are and I do not see how they think that. ::preachit::
::holingupflag:: American Heart forever
::saint:: AMDG ::saint::
MyrtleBeach,
Agreed. Yet, people do think that way.
Albert Einstein believed. His IQ was 180 something if I remember correctly.
What was that he said -- "God doesn't play dice with the universe"?
Isaac Newton believed as well. I'm not claiming it's a good argument, I'm just pointing out that it's one many people use.
I'm a programmer, and as such, all the people I regularly work with are college graduates, and many have advanced degrees. I am a Christian, as are several of my colleagues. But there are several others who essentially adhere to the (nonsensical) belief that intelligent people are athiests or agnostics, and so they must be too.
I've had long discussions about it with one, who expressed frank surprise that, intelligent and educated as I am, I could possibly be a believer. I don't fit his stereotype of the dim witted, ignorant religious nut. Yet, he still holds to his atheism, without giving me any stronger argument than that smart people are atheists.
Rational? No. But people aren't always rational, even smart ones.
The last couple popes I recall were certainly no dunces, either, so far as intelligence goes. Satan knows how to appeal to our pride, and encouraging us to feel smugly intelligent for our unbelief is an all too effective tool of his.
Yep.
: twd Fri Mar 24, 2006 - 10:52:47
I've had long discussions about it with one, who expressed frank surprise that, intelligent and educated as I am, I could possibly be a believer. I don't fit his stereotype of the dim witted, ignorant religious nut. Yet, he still holds to his atheism, without giving me any stronger argument than that smart people are atheists.
Rational? No. But people aren't always rational, even smart ones.
I remember hearing about a conversation that Cardinal O'Connor had with his friend Carl Sagan in which Sagan said something to the effect of, "I don't understand how a man as intelligent as you are believes in God." The Cardinal, of course, responded, "and I don't understand how a man as intelligent as you does not."
It seems to me that sometimes we choose the realm we want to live in among the physical, mental, and spiritual. A person who relies on their mental abilities to the extent that they discount the spiritual is akin to the "religious fanatic" who lives in the spiritual world to the point that he loses touch with the physical world around him.
I believe that if we keep the balance, we will believe in God.
I have heard from aethiests numerous times why they don't believe. One thing that I have heard numerous times is that there is no empirical evidence that can show them that God is real. Those who have said this are usually of a modern scientific thinking on everything and demand hard evidence on just about everything. They don't seem to grasp the idea of faith, which is exactly what they use when looking at the evolutionary tree and say they have proved man evolved from a supposed puddle of the basic organic building blocks of life over several billion years. With all its many holes and supposed paths over the years, that is more representative of emperical evidence to them than looking around in nature or into the nighttime sky and seeing everything as being made by a supreme being.
With all its many holes and supposed paths over the years, that is more representative of emperical evidence to them than looking around in nature or into the nighttime sky and seeing everything as being made by a supreme being.
Yeah, it just seems so amazing that someone can not see that as perfect as nature is, sky, the clouds, the sun, the birds, bees, and the most amazing of all amazing, the human body and the way it is put together, not only just the organs, but the awesomely complex electrical system it is run by.
Every cell, every molecule perfected crafted to run and fire up the energy it does, to keep it running smoothly. Our organ and gland system, all in allignment to run as a ticking clock, even better running, when we keep it in tune, well oiled, and the charger charged up.
Our God is just an incredible amazing God! ::clappingoverhead::
I find it sad who don't see Him as that. They seem to really miss out on the Joy of life we were meant to have when we were first put in the garden.
The condition we are in without our creator, and the life He has planned for each of us, by His Son's sacrifice of life on earth, and the Hope He gave us through that act of undying love, how can it be? ::shrug::
Amazing. ::prayinghard::
Memmy
You're not going to trick me into getting into this. My stockpile of manna has gotten pretty high, and I don't want to lose any. ::cool::
That's ok, Barry, some strange way mine was at 19, and now down to 8.
It doesn't hurt that bad. ::smile::
I wonder ::pondering:: .
Not quite sure this topic was about, or aimed at you though.
Memmy
As has been said, Christianity is not a religion for dummies (in spite of the book by the same name) which asks you to check your brain at the door
Many people put more real rational thought into buying a home or a used car than they do in picking a belief system/religion/philosophy. No sane person would buy a used car on "faith alone." You'd get in it, pop the hood, kick the tires, check the mileage, take it for a test drive, etc. In other words, you'd investigate the claims made for the car by the salesman before you decided to buy it. Why should adopting a religious belief be any different?
Pax.
They dont believe because they need "proof" whatever that is.
"Blessed are ye who have not seen, yet still believe."
I think society in general (at least in a lot of western cultures, if not others) has come to lack an appreciation about their past and a seriousness about their future. I almost wish I could say that we have an excuse for our unbelief because of the times we live in, but we know that there has always been unbelief.
And we have in Romans: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. "
The root cause has to be something that affects every person in every place and in every era.
Would it make sense to say that a person's unbelief is actually just a symptom of very serious denial? That some awareness of the truth is present (because "His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen.... so that we are without excuse") in every person, but is basically shoved away out of pride, and denied out of a fearful realization of what they have rejected?
Have I gotten in over my head already?
Probably.
: MyrtleBeach Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 18:15:07
Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
Another question... why do some people believe?
: memmy Sun Mar 26, 2006 - 12:25:19
That's ok, Barry, some strange way mine was at 19, and now down to 8.
It doesn't hurt that bad. ::smile::
I wonder ::pondering:: .
Not quite sure this topic was about, or aimed at you though.
Memmy
Well, my manna has disappeared completely! ::eek:: Oh, wait.... ::peeking::
I think what's even worse than not believing is putting that belief into something else, into other "gods". In some ways I think it would be better for the individual to just not believe in any god at all, whatsoever, then to believe in and put all their faith and trust into some make believe, mythological god or goddess. That's like giving God the finger as far as I'm conserned. ::frown::
I wonder if one can truly be said to not believe in any god... When someone claims to believe in no god at all, they normally look at themselves, and more particularly "self" as a "god".
I don't think that honestly anyone can say that they don't believe there could be a God but more accurately they don't want to believe there is. It is easier to feel you don't have to answer to God than to admit there is God and he will judge one in the way they live. But I am sure that everyone has heard of God. I even will go as far to say that I feel that if they would be honest they do believe that there is a strong possibility that there is God.
Well, the Scripture says "the fool hath said in his heart there is no God"... It doesn't say that he or she really believes it.
: MyrtleBeach Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 18:15:07
Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
Because they see no reason why they should.
: bvaug Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 20:00:46
Then some are just to rapped up in the world and don't want to give it up.
Talking about invalidation techniques. I could turn around and say that people believe because they are weakminded and cowardly.
I am NOT saying that. I am just saying that to say such is as invalidating as what bvaug said.
: janine Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 22:17:24
Most people who don't believe, aren't unbelievers because they have thought it out carefully and examined the evidence and chosen not to believe. Most people who don't believe, don't believe out of laziness or out of drifting along the path of least resistance.
Actually, most believers sort of drift into it too.
People are pretty much creatures of habit.
I believe I have examined enough evidence to justify the conclusion I have formed.
: twd Thu Mar 23, 2006 - 07:27:57
Many of the unbelievers I know are unbelievers because they think smart people are unbelievers. It's may be another form of that laziness Janine mentioned, or it may be peer pressure. Probably both.
Some others I know are unbelievers in reaction to people like Pat Robertson. Not really rational, but certainly not surprising.
I'm definitely smart.
However, there are a lot of folks over at the Infidel Board I would classify as fools.
: Lee Freeman Sun Mar 26, 2006 - 17:25:47
As has been said, Christianity is not a religion for dummies (in spite of the book by the same name) which asks you to check your brain at the door
Many people put more real rational thought into buying a home or a used car than they do in picking a belief system/religion/philosophy. No sane person would buy a used car on "faith alone." You'd get in it, pop the hood, kick the tires, check the mileage, take it for a test drive, etc. In other words, you'd investigate the claims made for the car by the salesman before you decided to buy it. Why should adopting a religious belief be any different?
Pax.
The BIble says that greedy people are subject ot excommunication from the church. Now, go, define just what greed is in an absolute objective unchallengeable way.
If a used car you speak of is broken down, I can see it and know it. Define greed using the Bible as your reference material in such a way to where I can identify it when I see it like I can a broken down car. *No room for opinion either.
: Barry H. Manners Sat May 13, 2006 - 00:07:38
: bvaug Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 20:00:46
Then some are just to rapped up in the world and don't want to give it up.
Talking about invalidation techniques. I could turn around and say that people believe because they are weakminded and cowardly.
I am NOT saying that. I am just saying that to say such is as invalidating as what bvaug said.
Oh Barry come on buddy you know that there is just as much a chance that God is real as there is that he is not. Both are a faith issue. I have faith that he is who he said and you have faith that he isn't. If I am right Then Praise God I will see him face to face and live in joy in his presence. If you are right then it doesn't matter anyway. Since it is as we know a matter of faith either way then I find more joy in accepting that he is who he said he was. I feel there is enough history and findings to support his claims.
Barry whether you will ever admit it or not you don't know 100% either way. You have read enough of his word and know enough to think about it. That my friend is the spirit trying to reach you. God is reaching out for you just as he promised. You are just not allowing him to come in. You chose your doubt as a comfort zone but if you would just allow him in you would find much more joy in your spiritual side.
There is not one soul here on earth that the spirit has not tried to reach. The spirit has made god known to all. Everyone responds to the Spirit differently. Some just blow him off and some just give a casual notice and some full accepts the Spirits work in their lives. All have been somewhat told of God. Just let the Spirit work in you to soften your heart and you will see things you can not see. You will understand things you do not understand. Have the Faith in God and don't fight his reaching out and you will receive blessing. You may never fully understand everything about God because there is just more than we as earthling can understand of the spiritual world but when we get there it will all be so simple .
Well enough rambling just open up your heart and let God touch your intermost being and you will find joy in him.
: bvaug Sat May 13, 2006 - 13:22:57
there is just as much a chance that God is real as there is that he is not.
There is a 100% chance that God is real. There is a 0% chance that He is not.
James I agree with you but that wont fly with the doubtful. I was just trying to make a point. It all boils down to faith.
Seein' as how I don't eat no manna anyhows....
"We walk by faith, not by sight."
Some people believe because God gives them faith. (Eph. 2:8-10) well duh.
V
One thing that I have heard numerous times is that there is no empirical evidence that can show them that God is real. Those who have said this are usually of a modern scientific thinking on everything and demand hard evidence on just about everything.
To these kind of people I always ask one question: who created "the big bang?" and when they say "it was just there" I reply, "so was God". ;)
People (some people anyway) do not believe, or rather choose not to believe because it is easier for them. They do not want to have to "follow any rules or moral code of conduct" that would infringe on their carefree way of life. They like their alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, sexual immorality, lust and greed and God does not fit in with their life styles...hence why there is a "god" tailor made for everyone, even if that "god" is science.
Some choose to not believe for the fear of "hell". The world at large has deluted its self into thinking that everyone goes to Heaven when they die and that is not only a ridiculous frame of mind, but also a completly unrealistic one. We are all sooooo sure that Grandma and Grandpa are in Heaven....well, what about Ted Bundy, Hitler, or Jeffery Dolhmer? Are they in Heaven or are they in Hell? Who's to say that Grandma and Grandpa are in Heaven either? Just because *I* loved them dearly and think they are the two greatest, most wonderful people on the planet, doesn't mean that God agrees with me. So what if Grandma and Grandpa were excellent grandparents to *me*, what if they were abusive to my parents? What if Grandpa was a pedaphile and Grandma knew it but chose to look the other way?
Ok, I'm starting to ramble off topic here...sorry :D
Anyway, the reasons people choose to not believe are as numerous as the people themselves.
: Barry H. Manners Sat May 13, 2006 - 00:05:27
: MyrtleBeach Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 18:15:07
Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
Because they see no reason why they should.
/
Is it therefore unreasonable to believe in God?
Why would anyone not believe in the might Creator and the Lord of Heaven and Earth who sent his son to die for us?
: spurly Tue May 30, 2006 - 22:05:17
Why would anyone not believe in the might Creator and the Lord of Heaven and Earth who sent his son to die for us?
Because it's not something that a person can see or feel or wrap their minds completely around in a rational way. Those things might, on a good day, take you so far, but It eventually boils down to faith.
We are all born selfish and proud and many have a hard time thinking that there is someone out there that we will have to answer to, or even if we can accept that there is a God we think that we're really not so bad that we deserve hell. These are all legitimate rational thoughts aren't they? It's almost like somebody is whispering these things in our ears. ::doh:: Oh wait, yeah, there is.
: spurly Tue May 30, 2006 - 22:05:17
Why would anyone not believe in the might Creator and the Lord of Heaven and Earth who sent his son to die for us?
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
It seems, at many times, the problem is not belief in God, or that this God is a mighty Creator and that he has interacted with his creation in many ways. But it seems to be the habit of man to conform God to a palatable image for oneself, and not the image of God given us from the Biblical account, which is true.
And for that my friend, you deserve manna.
: spurly Fri Aug 11, 2006 - 12:07:05
And for that my friend, you deserve manna.
Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
And for that you get some manna as well. I know I might be taking that verse out of context, but you get the idea.
: MyrtleBeach Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 18:15:07
Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
God like santa claus is fun to believe in until you grow up and know better. As a species we need to grow up. The world would be a better place.
: Petey Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 17:20:31
: MyrtleBeach Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 18:15:07
Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
God like santa claus is fun to believe in until you grow up and know better. As a species we need to grow up. The world would be a better place.
Dear Petey,
I gather you don't believe in God.
God Bless
Ken
: unionstcoc Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 18:39:38
: Petey Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 17:20:31
: MyrtleBeach Wed Mar 22, 2006 - 18:15:07
Why do some people not believe? ::frown::
God like santa claus is fun to believe in until you grow up and know better. As a species we need to grow up. The world would be a better place.
Dear Petey,
I gather you don't believe in God.
God Bless
Ken
Dear Ken,
No I don't. I hope that's not a problem. I'd like to understand why people do believe. I'm quite open minded and hope to find like minded people here.
Petey
Would you be so kind as to tell me why you do not believe in God.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
: unionstcoc Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 18:54:27
Would you be so kind as to tell me why you do not believe in God.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Hi Ken,
Certainly. There are thousands of reasons I don't believe but the short answer, and one you may be able to identify with, is that I don't believe in God for the same reasons I don't believe in Santa Claus. Santa was fun to believe in as a child but as I grew up I realized that he doesn't exist - can't exist. I can easily see how humans would need to create answers (gods & religions) to all the unknowns when we were young as a species. Today we understand so much more about this universe and our place in it. Simply put, I don't need a god. Why do you believe/need?
Petey
: Petey Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 19:15:28
: unionstcoc Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 18:54:27
Would you be so kind as to tell me why you do not believe in God.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Hi Ken,
Certainly. There are thousands of reasons I don't believe but the short answer, and one you may be able to identify with, is that I don't believe in God for the same reasons I don't believe in Santa Claus. Santa was fun to believe in as a child but as I grew up I realized that he doesn't exist - can't exist. I can easily see how humans would need to create answers (gods & religions) to all the unknowns when we were young as a species. Today we understand so much more about this universe and our place in it. Simply put, I don't need a god. Why do you believe/need?
Petey
Petey,
If I were to prove to you that there is a God that does exist and created all mankind with proof that you likely never heard. Would that begin to change your thinking about whether there is a God.
It would also answer the question you asked me-"Why do you believe/need?"
Fair enough.
I don't want to push that is why I am asking.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
: unionstcoc Wed Oct 11, 2006 - 19:35:43
Petey,
If I were to prove to you that there is a God that does exist and created all mankind with proof that you likely never heard. Would that begin to change your thinking about whether there is a God.
It would also answer the question you asked me-"Why do you believe/need?"
I don't want to push that is why I am asking.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Fair enough. I'm here to learn.
Petey,
Your more than gracious, I thank you for that. So here goes.
There are a few truths that exist within the soul and heart of every human being. They are so simple that most people miss the simple truth behind them.
I will deal with one, less I muddy the water (and I tend to do that sometimes).
I am assuming for sake of argument that because you do not believe there is one all consuming God, the creator of everything in the known universe you do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God.
I am guessing that most believers have tried to prove to you that God exist by using external facts. I will only use internal facts. That is the internal truths that are in you as a person.
A truth that resides in every human being is the fact the people want to love and be loved. People need love. As they grow to adulthood the way they find love changes. But at the outset all human beings want to be loved and love.
Granted love means different things to you then it does to me or anyone else. How we feel loved is like a kaleidoscope, it changes as we turn the time of our life as we grow and mature.
In Genesis 1:26 we read - Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
You may be saying, "But I don't believe in the bible so this verse means nothing to me.
Ken,
I believe the bible is a very interesting book written by men, edited by men, compiled by men and interpreted by men. Are you saying that the capacity for love inside me is evidence that God exists? You feel that we could not have love without a loving creator? We are created in his image so we have love? What about hate, rage, insecurity, anxiety, depression, etc. Do we have those emotions because the creator has them too? I don't understand.
Thanks,
Petey
Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?
: James Rondon Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 01:21:04
Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?
Hi James,
If I believed God existed it wouldn't change anything in the way I live my life. I'm a good person in any sense of the word. I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do. I suppose if I believed in God I'd be a good person going to heaven instead of a good person going to hell. That's a consequence I suppose. When you asked your question what did you think my answer was going to be? If you don't mind me asking, what would the consequences be in your life if you knew that God did not exist? I imagine it would be quite traumatic for you but I don't want to make any assumptions.
: Petey Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 08:44:49
: James Rondon Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 01:21:04
Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?
Hi James,
If I believed God existed it wouldn't change anything in the way I live my life. I'm a good person in any sense of the word. I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do. I suppose if I believed in God I'd be a good person going to heaven instead of a good person going to hell. That's a consequence I suppose. When you asked your question what did you think my answer was going to be? If you don't mind me asking, what would the consequences be in your life if you knew that God did not exist? I imagine it would be quite traumatic for you but I don't want to make any assumptions.
But what is the good of doing/being good?
I mean, if you could take something that didn't belong to you, but that you wanted/needed, knowing that it would not be missed and that you would never be caught, would you do it?
If not, why not? If so, is that "good" by your definition?
: normfromga Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 13:51:51
: Petey Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 08:44:49
: James Rondon Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 01:21:04
Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?
Hi James,
If I believed God existed it wouldn't change anything in the way I live my life. I'm a good person in any sense of the word. I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do. I suppose if I believed in God I'd be a good person going to heaven instead of a good person going to hell. That's a consequence I suppose. When you asked your question what did you think my answer was going to be? If you don't mind me asking, what would the consequences be in your life if you knew that God did not exist? I imagine it would be quite traumatic for you but I don't want to make any assumptions.
But what is the good of doing/being good?
I mean, if you could take something that didn't belong to you, but that you wanted/needed, knowing that it would not be missed and that you would never be caught, would you do it?
If not, why not? If so, is that "good" by your definition?
Hello again,
I treat people the way I want to be treated. Since I want people to treat me well I treat people well. I don't want people to steal from me so I don't steal from people. I live my life by these rules because they make sense to me.
Petey
Are you saying that the capacity for love inside me is evidence that God exists? You feel that we could not have love without a loving creator? We are created in his image so we have love?
Dear Petey,
Think about it. A loving God creates man and every man/woman has a great need to love and be loved. An evil man or good man both have this very need in them.
What about hate, rage, insecurity, anxiety, depression, etc. Do we have those emotions because the creator has them too? I don't understand.
I was hoping you would ask this very thing.
Man's need for love and a few other soul motivated things come from man's very center being his soul or spirit, which ever term you care to use. The negative emotions you mentioned are a result of man's physical self trying to find love, happiness and peace not realizing those needs come from his very soul.
So man spends his life trying to find those things in physical things such as people, places or things. But they are always short lived. The fact all men are created this way shows that the one true God is real.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
: unionstcoc Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 18:16:03
I was hoping you would ask this very thing.
Man's need for love and a few other soul motivated things come from man's very center being his soul or spirit, which ever term you care to use. The negative emotions you mentioned are a result of man's physical self trying to find love, happiness and peace not realizing those needs come from his very soul.
So man spends his life trying to find those things in physical things such as people, places or things. But they are always short lived. The fact all men are created this way shows that the one true God is real.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Hi Ken,
So we are made up of a soul and a physical body. The physical self tries to satisfy the souls cravings with things in the physical world which results in negative emotions because the physical world will always let us down. These cravings will only be satisfied fully in the spiritual world by accepting the never ending love of God.
Sounds good but I
know God does not exist. I
know that when my brain ceases functioning my soul does not continue on. I know these things and yet I am at peace with the world, I am happy, I am loved and accepted. I want for nothing. If as you say all men are created the way you describe how do you explain me?
I believe gods were invented by men for many reasons but one of the main reasons was to have the equivalent of a childs invisible friend. Someone to understand us and accept us and love us. After all, we are a very resourceful species. If we need something and don't have it we will invent it.
: Petey Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 21:18:47Sounds good but I know God does not exist.
How do you
know God does not exist?
: DCR Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 06:45:06
: Petey Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 21:18:47Sounds good but I know God does not exist.
How do you know God does not exist?
For the same reasons you know Santa Claus does not exist. If I was to start a list it would take me weeks to complete.
Petey
Hi Petey,
I have been following this thread for a while and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share. I understand that you don't believe in God. I would like to ask you a question, "Do you believe in the existence of the wind?" If so, why? I hope you don't think I am being facetious.
Blessings,
Jaime
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:17:41
Hi Petey,
I have been following this thread for a while and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share. I understand that you don't believe in God. I would like to ask you a question, "Do you believe in the existence of the wind?" If so, why? I hope you don't think I am being facetious.
Blessings,
Jaime
Hi Jaime,
I know the wind exists for a hundred reasons but simply put it can be measured. This is a trick question right? ::pondering::
Petey
PS Just noticed you're from Midland. I got my EE from Texas Tech in the early 80s.
: Petey Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:28:35
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:17:41
Hi Petey,
I have been following this thread for a while and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share. I understand that you don't believe in God. I would like to ask you a question, "Do you believe in the existence of the wind?" If so, why? I hope you don't think I am being facetious.
Blessings,
Jaime
Hi Jaime,
I know the wind exists for a hundred reasons but simply put it can be measured. This is a trick question right? ::pondering::
Petey
PS Just noticed you're from Midland. I got my EE from Texas Tech in the early 80s.
Petey,
Your a literal thinker, yes.
I am at work, so can't post like I can at home. I will continue our line of reasoning.
You see I have worked with athiest. After a few years I discovered what I call inner evidence for God as opposed to outer evidence. I discovered this truth for proving God's existence has never really been used per say. And it had a big impact not only with athiest but many others.
Again, you have a great spirit about you that I fine very refreshing.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Petey,
It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.
I apologize at my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:
A Case for a Creator - by Lee Strobel
Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.
Thank you for your cordial responses,
Jaime
PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:43:19
Petey,
It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.
I apologize at the my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:
A Case for a Creator - by Lee Stroebel
Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.
Thank you for cordial responses,
Jaime
PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.
Dear Jaime,
Very good post. I think Petey will like it very much.
Your right, Petey is a very cordial person, I am enjoying these two threads.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Thank you Ken, I too am enjoying this thread.
Blessings,
Jaime
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:43:19
Petey,
It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.
I apologize at the my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:
A Case for a Creator - by Lee Strobel
Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.
Thank you for your cordial responses,
Jaime
PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.
Thanks Jaime I'll read the book.
Petey
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:43:19
PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.
Small world isn't it? ::smile::
: unionstcoc Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:52:50
Your right, Petey is a very cordial person, I am enjoying these two threads.
Thanks guys. Like I said in an earlier post, I try to treat people the way I'd like to be treated myself.
Chat with you later Ken.
Petey
Your welcome Petey.
Have a good weekend. I have been working in Brownwood, Tx all week, and I'm packing up to drive back to the "Tall City" (Midland). Hope the dust isn't blowing this week! ::smile::
Blessings,
Jaime
PS - yes, it is a small world! ::nodding:: (and really flat out here)
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 12:09:39
Your welcome Petey.
Have a good weekend. I have been working in Brownwood, Tx all week, and I'm packing up to drive back to the "Tall City" (Midland). Hope the dust isn't blowing this week! ::smile::
Blessings,
Jaime
Be safe and I do remember the dust!
Petey
: unionstcoc Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:52:50
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:43:19
Petey,
It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.
I apologize at the my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:
A Case for a Creator - by Lee Stroebel
Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.
Thank you for cordial responses,
Jaime
PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.
Dear Jaime,
Very good post. I think Petey will like it very much.
Your right, Petey is a very cordial person, I am enjoying these two threads.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Guys,
I was at books-a-million this evening and found a couple of books by Strobel but not that one. I'll find it soon maybe Amazon.
Petey
: Petey Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 07:52:58
: DCR Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 06:45:06
: Petey Thu Oct 12, 2006 - 21:18:47Sounds good but I know God does not exist.
How do you know God does not exist?
For the same reasons you know Santa Claus does not exist. If I was to start a list it would take me weeks to complete.
Petey
Lord have mercy.
How do you know Santa Claus doesn't exist?
Petey,
If you saw the one The Case for Christ, that is another very good read.
Believing in God is not really all that hard. The alternative of pure chance is too fantastic for an engineer to believe. Deducing which one He is from a multitude of religious thought is a wee bit more difficult. I have always been somewhat envious of engineers. They see things I can't always see.
: Petey Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 21:31:03
: unionstcoc Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:52:50
: Jaime Fri Oct 13, 2006 - 11:43:19
Petey,
It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.
I apologize at the my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:
A Case for a Creator - by Lee Stroebel
Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.
Thank you for cordial responses,
Jaime
PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.
Dear Jaime,
Very good post. I think Petey will like it very much.
Your right, Petey is a very cordial person, I am enjoying these two threads.
God Bless
Ken Mathews
Guys,
I was at books-a-million this evening and found a couple of books by Strobel but not that one. I'll find it soon maybe Amazon.
Petey
Petey, I hope you find it. The following link is a short blurb about it:
http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1222 (http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1222)
Blessings,
Jaime
I've read The Case For Faith, by Lee Strobel as well.
It is fantastic!
: Jaime Sat Oct 14, 2006 - 19:11:11
Petey, I hope you find it. The following link is a short blurb about it:
http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1222 (http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1222)
Blessings,
Jaime
Thanks Jaime,
I found Strobels website too. I only glanced at it but it looks interesting.
Petey
: DCR Sat Oct 14, 2006 - 00:05:24
Petey,
If you saw the one The Case for Christ, that is another very good read.
Thanks DCR but that one wasn't there either. I'll find it though.
Petey
: zoonance Sat Oct 14, 2006 - 17:40:49
Believing in God is not really all that hard. The alternative of pure chance is too fantastic for an engineer to believe. Deducing which one He is from a multitude of religious thought is a wee bit more difficult. I have always been somewhat envious of engineers. They see things I can't always see.
Hi zoonance,
Believing in God is very hard for
me and it's not that I don't want to believe! My youngest son (12) was killed in a car accident two years ago... Believe me, I'd love to believe he's an angel in heaven right now but I can't change my beliefs just out of convenience. It's not just that there's zero hard scientific evidence for God but his existance would actually contravene everything we know about the universe. I can't believe in a being that breaks all the physical laws that the rest of the universe must follow.
Pure chance is exactly why we're here exchanging e-mails. What are the odds that a planet with water is orbiting a sun so that the water exists in a liquid form? Zero? Hardly. What are the chances that a simple replicating molecule formed on the planet? Zero? Not quite. Can you imagine how long one thousand million years is? I can't. It boggles my mind but that's probably how long it took for that simple molecule to appear.
Just for fun, here's a little exercise in logic and the concept of infinity. In fact, taken to it's ultimate conclusion it indicates that God must exist. First I'm sure you know infinite means never ending. If the universe is infinite in time and space it will contain an infinite number of anything you can imagine. An infinite number of suns, planets, civilizations and gods. Even very specific things are infinite. Say you have a favorite pet dog Rover and you wanted another exact Rover. Just start looking in the infinite universe infinitely and you will find another group of elements that is Rover. You want another Rover then keep looking till you find one. Do you grasp this concept? If the possibility of something existing is non-zero and the universe is infinite then it will contain an infinite number of the non-zero something! If the possibility of God existing is non-zero then in an infinite universe there will exist an infinite number of gods! Before you get too excited there are two problems with an infinite number of gods. First we don't know if the universe is infinite and second nothing can exist in the universe that doesn't follow the physical laws of the universe. Like I said it's just an exercise in logic and infinity.
Petey
: Petey Sun Oct 15, 2006 - 09:12:28
: Jaime Sat Oct 14, 2006 - 19:11:11
Petey, I hope you find it. The following link is a short blurb about it:
http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1222 (http://www.ideacenter.org/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1222)
Blessings,
Jaime
Thanks Jaime,
I found Strobels website too. I only glanced at it but it looks interesting.
Petey
Apparently there were several editions that came out. Here (http://www.bestbookdeal.com/booksearch?country=US&search=TTL&string=a+case+for+a+creator) is a list of the books, with places that they can be bought new or used.
Methinks Petey is trying too hard.
Thought I'd share this -- very well done:
"The Watchmaker":
http://www.kids4truth.com/watchmaker/watch.html
Ah -- but you see, that's the very stuff that proves the total logic of God.
God is infinite -- no need to postulate bunches of Gods. There's only the One -- of such unimaginable infinite-ness that all exists within Him.