I've wondered about this and have looked into it and it is confusing. I don't understand why he wouldn't simply release his birth certificate. And that's why I've never brought it up--I thought he would. But since he's not...I'm wondering......why? It has got to be that it's because releasing it would cause him more harm than refusing to release it. And now one of his fellow Democrats has brought suit demanding he release his birth certificate claiming that Obama is not a natural born citizen and therefore not eligible for the Presidency. But the DNC is fighting against Obama having to release his birth certificate as have all other candidates of modern times. See the article below:
================================
The Democrat suing Sen. Barack Obama and the Democratic National Committee for proof of Obama's American citizenship is outraged that his own party – rather than just providing the birth certificate he seeks – would step in to silence him by filing a motion to dismiss his lawsuit.
As WND reported, prominent Pennsylvania Democrat and attorney Philip J. Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court two months ago claiming Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen and therefore not eligible to be elected president. Berg has since challenged Obama publicly that if the candidate will simply produce authorized proof of citizenship, he'll drop the suit.
Berg told WND the longer the DNC tries to ignore his lawsuit or make it go away – instead of just providing the documents – the more convinced he is that his accusations are correct.
Despite assertions by the Washington Post, FactChecker.org and other organizations that Obama has produced a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg told WND he remains "99.99 percent sure" that the certificate is a fake and he wants a court, not a website, to determine its validity.
Earlier last week, lawyers for Obama and the DNC filed a joint motion to dismiss Berg's lawsuit. The fact that the DNC joined in the dismissal request has Berg fuming, believing his party's leaders have ignored his pleas for proof in order to favor their chosen candidate over a rank-and-file constituent.
"I think it's outrageous," Berg said. "The Democratic National Committee should be ensuring the Democratic Party and the public that they have a qualified candidate up there. To file a joint motion is like they're in cahoots.
Read Story (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76933)
If there's nothing to hide...why not release it? Why fight it? ::pondering::
"I don't understand why he wouldn't simply release his birth certificate"
He was hatched? ::shrug::
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/
There is a court record of the Democrat suing to get the certificate released to the public.
Is this not profoundly odd to anyone else? Clinton released his. Gore, Dukkasis, McGovern. This is just weird.
This was new to me. I knew about the secrecy surrounding his college years, where he was, what he did, how it was paid, but not about this. I assumed it would be required by law to produce it and make it public.
Like I've been saying all along, just too much stuff we don't know about the man, too much important stuff we have a right and responsibility to know before allowing him the privilege of even attempting to be our leader.
: admin Tue Oct 07, 2008 - 22:39:03
I've wondered about this and have looked into it and it is confusing. I don't understand why he wouldn't simply release his birth certificate.
Dude, this is tin-foil-hat territory; see SUMMARY: Since we published Obama's birth certificate (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/):
(http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg)
I don't like his policies, and I'm not voting for him, but I don't deny that he's a fellow American.
Because the ink on it isn't dry yet?
love,
Sopranette
: sopranette Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 05:43:30
Because the ink on it isn't dry yet?
I know the response is meant to be funny, but, seriously, if this is what McCain supporters here and beyond are going to offer up in the next four weeks, true conservatism is going to be set back at least a generation.
I'm not a McCain supporter.
love,
Sopranette
Sanctisivo... that isn't a real photocopy of his birth certificate... its a mockup some of the DNC gave when asked for it.
To fulfill this request the folks requesting it need an approved photocopy or the real thing.
I don't believe thier is a conspiracy here but I have no idea why he won't release it... it makes him look guilty (though some believe he was born in Kenya... and since his father was not an American citizen that would be enough to keep him from becoming president under current laws, since if you were born on foreign soil you must have two American citizen parents to run for president, which was John McCain's case... he was born in Panama).
I'm no conspiracy guy, but it is interesting that it's in a font that wasn't developed until 1982. Just sayin'. Does Hawaii not issue copies of originals, but new prints off the computer instead? That's the only explanation that'd make sense to me, and you never no, it may well be the case.
Here's my theory. He won't release his birth certificate, because on that birth certificate he has a different name. Then people will want to know why he changed his name - and his Muslim roots will be revisited again.
What is all the chatter about 'releasing' a birth certificate?
Who exactly IS it that has the responsibility to validate the birth certificate of an individual who's running for prez?
Henry Kissinger?
Vince McMahon?
Rush?
Geraldo?
Jon Stewart?
Who the H is it?
: poptart Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 09:12:10
What is all the chatter about 'releasing' a birth certificate?
Who exactly IS it that has the responsibility to validate the birth certificate of an individual who's running for prez?
Henry Kissinger?
Vince McMahon?
Rush?
Geraldo?
Jon Stewart?
Who the H is it?
Vince McMahon.
: admin Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 00:08:37
Is this not profoundly odd to anyone else? Clinton released his. Gore, Dukkasis, McGovern. This is just weird.
It's not "profoundly odd." It's plain stupid. What's profoundly odd is that you even bring it up. That's what's "weird".
Get used to it. Obama will be the next president and all this whining just makes people want to vote for him.
Obama is one of the pod people from the planet Dralax 4. That is what Obama is hiding.
Aren't all politicians?
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 09:57:45
Aren't all politicians?
Most are, in the words of a frequent "caller" to Glenn Beck's radio program, "lying liars who lie."
But if they are...uh...you know....elo...quent...we uh...let it...slide.
What is the big deal if there is nothing to hide?
I have a feeling no matter what certificate is published people are going to call it fake, especially since it seems to have been released and people still doubt it.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
OK, so why won't he release info on his college years?
There are things he wants hidden, things the American people have a right and responsibility to know, things that most Americans won't know until it is too late because of a very biased media.
For evidence of a very biased media:
www.newsbusters.org
Check it out.
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 08:49:54
I'm no conspiracy guy, but it is interesting that it's in a font that wasn't developed until 1982. Just sayin'. Does Hawaii not issue copies of originals, but new prints off the computer instead? That's the only explanation that'd make sense to me, and you never no, it may well be the case.
Look. All of this information is stored on databases. There is a printer, many printers, at the state office of vital records that is loaded with preprinted forms all ready to have the pertinent data burped out when the applicant pays the fee. I've got my birth certificate from Tennessee; it was printed off about ten years ago. I was born in 1960: so the form won't have a 1960s style. It won't have a 1960s font. There won't be anything 1960s about it except my certified birth date. If I went to the Cordell Hull office building in downtown Nashville to get another one, it'll have a 2008 font on a 2008 form but still have the same 1960 information.
If Republicans are going to go this tin-foil-hate route, the last four weeks of this campaign are going to be far more entertaining than I ever expected.
: spurly Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 09:07:23
Here's my theory. He won't release his birth certificate, because on that birth certificate he has a different name. Then people will want to know why he changed his name - and his Muslim roots will be revisited again.
Err. It's been released. More tin foil.
Seriously, is there any conspiracy garbage too moronic for some of you to embrace?
When the election is over and life goes back to normal, how are you going to get the stench off of you?
That's a little harsh, don't you think?
love,
Sopranette
: kmv Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:13:29
Seriously, is there any conspiracy garbage too moronic for some of you to embrace?
When the election is over and life goes back to normal, how are you going to get the stench off of you?
Only a fool would vote for someone about which their are questions as to their history, their loyalty, and their allegiance.
If the man has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding it? The answer is that he has many things to hide, things that would make a difference in his desire to be President of the United States of America.
: sanctusivo Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 05:35:44
: admin Tue Oct 07, 2008 - 22:39:03
I've wondered about this and have looked into it and it is confusing. I don't understand why he wouldn't simply release his birth certificate.
Dude, this is tin-foil-hat territory; see SUMMARY: Since we published Obama's birth certificate (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/):
(http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg)
I don't like his policies, and I'm not voting for him, but I don't deny that he's a fellow American.
Where is the state seal? It is not valid w/o the seal. It would be evident on a photo/scanned copy.
He was not born "Barack Hussein Obama II".
I don't think this is legitimate. Changing your name does not change your name on your birth certificate.
: sopranette Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:15:44
That's a little harsh, don't you think?
love,
Sopranette
No.
It is deserved.
Folly is a sin, you know.
: phoebe Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:20:37
He was not born "Barack Hussein Obama II".
I don't think this is legitimate. Changing your name does not change your name on your birth certificate.
Bingo.
: phoebe Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:20:37
He was not born "Barack Hussein Obama II".
I don't think this is legitimate. Changing your name does not change your name on your birth certificate.
Yikes! You just refuted your own point. Barack Hussein Obama II IS the name on the birth certificate.
: sanctusivo Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:08:38
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 08:49:54
I'm no conspiracy guy, but it is interesting that it's in a font that wasn't developed until 1982. Just sayin'. Does Hawaii not issue copies of originals, but new prints off the computer instead? That's the only explanation that'd make sense to me, and you never no, it may well be the case.
Look. All of this information is stored on databases. There is a printer, many printers, at the state office of vital records that is loaded with preprinted forms all ready to have the pertinent data burped out when the applicant pays the fee. I've got my birth certificate from Tennessee; it was printed off about ten years ago. I was born in 1960: so the form won't have a 1960s style. It won't have a 1960s font. There won't be anything 1960s about it except my certified birth date. If I went to the Cordell Hull office building in downtown Nashville to get another one, it'll have a 2008 font on a 2008 form but still have the same 1960 information.
Which, you'll note, I left the possibility open for. You will understand, of course, that people who live in states where only copies of original forms showing signatures and stamps are accepted might find this form unusual, no?
: kmv Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:13:29
Seriously, is there any conspiracy garbage too moronic for some of you to embrace?
When the election is over and life goes back to normal, how are you going to get the stench off of you?
It's not my fault. The satellites controlled by Major League Baseball are at fault.
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:35:32
: sanctusivo Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:08:38
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 08:49:54
I'm no conspiracy guy, but it is interesting that it's in a font that wasn't developed until 1982. Just sayin'. Does Hawaii not issue copies of originals, but new prints off the computer instead? That's the only explanation that'd make sense to me, and you never no, it may well be the case.
Look. All of this information is stored on databases. There is a printer, many printers, at the state office of vital records that is loaded with preprinted forms all ready to have the pertinent data burped out when the applicant pays the fee. I've got my birth certificate from Tennessee; it was printed off about ten years ago. I was born in 1960: so the form won't have a 1960s style. It won't have a 1960s font. There won't be anything 1960s about it except my certified birth date. If I went to the Cordell Hull office building in downtown Nashville to get another one, it'll have a 2008 font on a 2008 form but still have the same 1960 information.
Which, you'll note, I left the possibility open for. You will understand, of course, that people who live in states where only copies of original forms showing signatures and stamps are accepted might find this form unusual, no?
I needed my original birth certificate to get a drivers license here.
Me, too, in NY. We also have to have a stamped copy of the original of our daughters' to fly, which are copies of the form signed at the hospital, not a computer printout of pertinent info.
: Gary Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:36:36
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:35:32
: sanctusivo Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:08:38
: jmg3rd Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 08:49:54
I'm no conspiracy guy, but it is interesting that it's in a font that wasn't developed until 1982. Just sayin'. Does Hawaii not issue copies of originals, but new prints off the computer instead? That's the only explanation that'd make sense to me, and you never no, it may well be the case.
Look. All of this information is stored on databases. There is a printer, many printers, at the state office of vital records that is loaded with preprinted forms all ready to have the pertinent data burped out when the applicant pays the fee. I've got my birth certificate from Tennessee; it was printed off about ten years ago. I was born in 1960: so the form won't have a 1960s style. It won't have a 1960s font. There won't be anything 1960s about it except my certified birth date. If I went to the Cordell Hull office building in downtown Nashville to get another one, it'll have a 2008 font on a 2008 form but still have the same 1960 information.
Which, you'll note, I left the possibility open for. You will understand, of course, that people who live in states where only copies of original forms showing signatures and stamps are accepted might find this form unusual, no?
I needed my original birth certificate to get a drivers license here.
I don't recall bringing anything to i.d. myself way back when I first got my license, but back then I used whale oil lamps to study on a slate tablet to pass my driver's exam saddling a horse.
Right, I heard that he had issued it as well. But it's a Democrat suing saying that what he "released" was a fraud. Like someone else pointed out, the font on it wasn't invented until 1992. I just want him to release it. No, I'm not grasping at straws, but if he's supposed to release it, release it. A Democrat is suing for it to be released and the DNC is objecting along with Obama. So if that other version was valid then the DNC and Obama would simply say, "Here it is." But they're not.
This is just strange. Like I said, I haven't cared about this until recently because I thought that it was conspiracy junk. But if what he released was a fraud, that's a big deal and says a lot about him. So why not release it? What is he hiding? I think that's a fair question.
: admin Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 17:56:21
I think that's a fair question.
It's no more than an attempt to distract from the worst campaign ever waged by a Republican presidential candidate.
It's a ridiculous question. No one cares about it except the knotheads in the GOP.
If it's no big deal, then release it. Again.
: memmy Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 20:07:59
If it's no big deal, then release it. Again.
First of all, the birth certificate has been released. The State of Hawaii recorded his birth back in 1962.
Second, those who insist on refusing to be convinced lack integrity because there is nothing the Obama campaign can do to convince these people. They lie to themselves because they wind up lying about Obama.
I'm going to take a wild guess and presume that you're among those who would never be convinced.
I'm not voting for the guy, but wingnut, tin-foil garbage like this only hurts Republicans down ticket.
I think asking to see Obama's REAL birth certificate is an absolutely fair question. He did change his name to Barack so that should not be on the birth certificate. And just what is the big deal about this after all? If Obama truly has a legitimate birth certificate, he should just show it so that it ends the conspiracy and maybe people could trust him more, thus giving Obama more votes.
However, this is not the case, and Obama repeatedly refuses and guards endlessly that birth certificate, something is certainly wrong with this. Of course though, Obama lying about one more instance would be nothing new in his campaign.
: Allegiance Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:51:31
He did change his name to Barack so that should not be on the birth certificate.
Got any proof for this assertion?
I haven't heard anything about him changing his name and am reading a book about him that doesn't say anything about that. He was named after his birth father.
Anyway, if it's just Republican smear attempts, then a Democrat is not the one suing for his official birth certificate to be released................on wait. IT IS. Why? And how could all you sensible people overlook that?
: sopranette Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:15:44
That's a little harsh, don't you think?
love,
Sopranette
No Sopranette, I've learned by watching KMV post that it's only wrong for conservatives to be harsh. Liberals can accuse any conservative of anything and it's cool. But let a conservative and they can call you insult, belittle -- whatever. What's funny about all this is that it's a DEMOCRAT leading the charge to make Obama produce an official birth certificate, but somehow liberals are calling it a Republican conspiracy. Sort of like blaming Republicans for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac even though it was Democrats who said everything was just fine when Republicans wanted things tightened up and gave warnings.
And the funny thing is that a Democrat pointed all that out as well. For those of you who are behind, watch President Clinton point out that Republicans wanted to tighten up on Freddie and Fannie but the Dems blocked it completely.
So there was Clinton reminding people of history while Democrats are still trying to blame Republicans and Bush even though they were the ones who warned about it and wanted to do something about it but Dems blocked it. Basically, if it makes Barack Hussein Obama look bad, it's a wild conspiracy theory. He's untouchable. That's how liberals think right now.
: admin Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 22:49:16
: sopranette Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:15:44
That's a little harsh, don't you think?
love,
Sopranette
No Sopranette, I've learned by watching KMV post that it's only wrong for conservatives to be harsh. Liberals can accuse any conservative of anything and it's cool. But let a conservative and they can call you insult, belittle -- whatever. What's funny about all this is that it's a DEMOCRAT leading the charge to make Obama produce an official birth certificate, but somehow liberals are calling it a Republican conspiracy....
Uh, pardon me.
I didn't say it was a
Republican conspiracy, I said it was a
moronic conspiracy.
I would like to believe that those two aren't identical.
The evidence of this thread to the contrary.
: sanctusivo Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:58:33
: Allegiance Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:51:31
He did change his name to Barack so that should not be on the birth certificate.
Got any proof for this assertion?
Proof? How about Barack himself? He was born "Barry", not "Barack". It's in his book. Did you read it?
: spurly Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:29:33
: phoebe Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:20:37
He was not born "Barack Hussein Obama II".
I don't think this is legitimate. Changing your name does not change your name on your birth certificate.
Bingo.
Yes it does... been there done that... you spend a $50 fee and you are issued a new birth certificate with the new name on it. If you petitioned a judge to change your name, you get a new birth certificate. I changed one of my kids names when he was 4 years old, his birth certificate now reflects that... it did as of 6 weeks after the judge gave the order and it was filed.
However, upon looking at the said document claimed and posted as his birth certificate, I say it's not. It does NOT have a RAISED stamp on it anywhere... and the emblem of the state at the top is not what I am looking for. There should be a "RAISED" Stamp in the bottom right hand corner of that birth certificate and you have to have it even to get a Drivers license.... it would show, even in copy.. but they would know it wasn't certified... and Neither is that birth certificate.
: kensington Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:44:59
However, upon looking at the said document claimed and posted as his birth certificate, I say it's not. It does NOT have a RAISED stamp on it anywhere... and the emblem of the state at the top is not what I am looking for. There should be a "RAISED" Stamp in the bottom right hand corner of that birth certificate and you have to have it even to get a Drivers license.... it would show, even in copy.. but they would know it wasn't certified... and Neither is that birth certificate.
How can you tell if it's raised or not from that graphic?
: admin Fri Oct 10, 2008 - 00:32:15
: kensington Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:44:59
However, upon looking at the said document claimed and posted as his birth certificate, I say it's not. It does NOT have a RAISED stamp on it anywhere... and the emblem of the state at the top is not what I am looking for. There should be a "RAISED" Stamp in the bottom right hand corner of that birth certificate and you have to have it even to get a Drivers license.... it would show, even in copy.. but they would know it wasn't certified... and Neither is that birth certificate.
How can you tell if it's raised or not from that graphic?
There is nothing there.. the state seal at the top is not what you are looking for. You are looking for the "Registers" seal (raised) that would have been put there when it was recorded in the hall of records for the health department. I believe. It would be at the bottom. The state seal is not the same thing. This one posted is missing any proof this document was ever registered with the office.
All birth certificates we have, and having given birth all over the country due to military service... have the state seal at the top, as this does, but they also have that registers seal on it also. BOTH.
: kensington Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:39:00
: spurly Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:29:33
: phoebe Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 12:20:37
He was not born "Barack Hussein Obama II".
I don't think this is legitimate. Changing your name does not change your name on your birth certificate.
Bingo.
Yes it does... been there done that... you spend a $50 fee and you are issued a new birth certificate with the new name on it. If you petitioned a judge to change your name, you get a new birth certificate. I changed one of my kids names when he was 4 years old, his birth certificate now reflects that... it did as of 6 weeks after the judge gave the order and it was filed.
That probably varies by state.
Nevertheless, important other features like the seal are missing.
: phoebe Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:37:06
: sanctusivo Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:58:33
: Allegiance Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:51:31
He did change his name to Barack so that should not be on the birth certificate.
Got any proof for this assertion?
Proof? How about Barack himself? He was born "Barry", not "Barack". It's in his book. Did you read it?
Have
you read it?
Cite the title of the book and the page referenced, please.
: sanctusivo Fri Oct 10, 2008 - 07:39:12
: phoebe Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:37:06
: sanctusivo Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:58:33
: Allegiance Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 06:51:31
He did change his name to Barack so that should not be on the birth certificate.
Got any proof for this assertion?
Proof? How about Barack himself? He was born "Barry", not "Barack". It's in his book. Did you read it?
Have you read it? Cite the title of the book and the page referenced, please.
Sorry, I didn't buy it. I borrowed it from the library. I suggest you do the same.
: phoebe Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:37:06
Proof? How about Barack himself? He was born "Barry", not "Barack". It's in his book. Did you read it?
I'm pretty sure that 'Barry' was a nickname for 'Barack' - sort of like my husband being both Mike and Michael.
My husband's birth certificate says 'Michael' even though he was known as 'Mike' as a boy and young man.
That's a pretty lame justification for implying the birth certificate is fake. But you knew that. ::smile::
In my opinion, only someone who is not a US citizen but trying to pass himself off as one would refuse to show his birth certificate, or his parents are from a country that is hostile to the US. I would thin, though, that he could easily get a fake birth certificate. With enough money you can get any fake ID you want.
: phoebe Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 11:59:38
OK, so why won't he release info on his college years?
There are things he wants hidden, things the American people have a right and responsibility to know, things that most Americans won't know until it is too late because of a very biased media.
For evidence of a very biased media:
www.newsbusters.org Check it out.
The days of liberal bias media are long gone, as there are networks and news agencies that cater to both sides.
Foxnews = Conservative
MSNBC = Liberal
CNSNews = Conservative
ABC= Liberal
Wall Street Journal = Conservative
New York Times = Liberal
CNN is the only News Network that has been called both Conservative and Liberal
But with the internet blogs, news, forums, etc., both sides are evenly matched.
The October Surprise? And this from a lifelong Demorat!
: kmv Fri Oct 10, 2008 - 23:00:31
: phoebe Thu Oct 09, 2008 - 23:37:06
Proof? How about Barack himself? He was born "Barry", not "Barack". It's in his book. Did you read it?
I'm pretty sure that 'Barry' was a nickname for 'Barack' - sort of like my husband being both Mike and Michael.
My husband's birth certificate says 'Michael' even though he was known as 'Mike' as a boy and young man.
That's what I thought. And in the book I have, "The Faith of Barack Obama" it says he was born as Barack and later was called Barry.
: admin Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 12:16:20
The October Surprise? And this from a lifelong Demorat!
I hope the court puts this on the fast track and demands that he produce the legitimitate documents or drop out of the race.
He barely refers to a point that was brought up in more detail on a special I saw this weekend on CNN about the history presidential health (Fit to Lead)--that unlike McCain, Obama has refused to release his medical records to journalists. No real reason is given.
: spurly Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 12:58:00
: admin Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 12:16:20
The October Surprise? And this from a lifelong Demorat!
I hope the court puts this on the fast track and demands that he produce the legitimitate documents or drop out of the race.
If the judge didn't get things going and an unqualified person got into the White House that judge would look very, very bad.
I find it fascinating that when they asked McCain he released everything to them. Birth certificate, medical records (which is why the media kept trying to scare people into thinking McCain is in bad health because of a skin cancer).
But Obama won't produce his medical records or his birth certificate. And no, a picture on a website is not proof. It doesn't take much beyond beginner skills to create something like that with cheap software. All Obama has to do is release his birth certificate to the judge. Still ironic that it's a Democrat filing suit to have him release his birth certificate.
Oh dear. It looks like this is very likely true. I wonder how this will affect the nation if it is true. The article cites that same Democrat from Pennsylvania who has sued Obama. All Obama has to do is give his birth certificate to the judge. What is he hiding?
Obama Born in Kenya According to Grandmother (http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324)
: admin Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 20:59:39
Oh dear. It looks like this is very likely true. I wonder how this will affect the nation if it is true. The article cites that same Democrat from Pennsylvania who has sued Obama. All Obama has to do is give his birth certificate to the judge. What is he hiding?
Obama Born in Kenya According to Grandmother (http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324)
How will it affect the nation if it is true? 99% of the liberals won't care.
: admin Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 20:59:39
Oh dear. It looks like this is very likely true. I wonder how this will affect the nation if it is true. The article cites that same Democrat from Pennsylvania who has sued Obama. All Obama has to do is give his birth certificate to the judge. What is he hiding?
Obama Born in Kenya According to Grandmother (http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324)
FactCheck.org says this is already a done deal
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
"Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs."
It is all this kind of stuff that is hurting our candidate and not helping! As evident by all the recent polls. All the negative is backfiring and we need to stop it and deal with hardcore facts on why John's programs are better. Besides, it is the way we as Christian should be approaching the subject matter anyways.
FactCheck.org appears to be a pro-Obama entity and, therefore, has no credibility.
From article at Death by 1000 Papercuts (http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/10/obama-bill-ayers-and-factcheckorg-all-have-ties-to-annenberg-foundation/)
Finally, an interview with a major news group about this: http://www.myfoxtoledo.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail?contentId=7637353&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.14.1
: Mere Nick Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 22:06:09
FactCheck.org appears to be a pro-Obama entity and, therefore, has no credibility.
From article at Death by 1000 Papercuts (http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2008/10/obama-bill-ayers-and-factcheckorg-all-have-ties-to-annenberg-foundation/)
He was on their board. Obama should just give the documents to the judge and stop all this nonsense if it's not true.
: admin Mon Oct 13, 2008 - 20:59:39
Oh dear. It looks like this is very likely true. I wonder how this will affect the nation if it is true. The article cites that same Democrat from Pennsylvania who has sued Obama. All Obama has to do is give his birth certificate to the judge. What is he hiding?
Obama Born in Kenya According to Grandmother (http://www.israelenews.com/view.asp?ID=3324)
I don't understand why this isn't making any NEWS here in America... Whass up with the US anyway? Get off the couch and find out!!
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah,
Obama could settle it by producing the required documents.
: ElijahRev113 Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 02:57:39
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters
know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.
If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.
Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 08:37:40
: ElijahRev113 Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 02:57:39
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.
If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.
Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.
Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?
All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.
Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?
: kmv Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:20:18
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 08:37:40
: ElijahRev113 Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 02:57:39
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.
If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.
Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.
Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?
All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.
Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?
I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given
to the judge.
: Gary Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:22:21
: kmv Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:20:18
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 08:37:40
: ElijahRev113 Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 02:57:39
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.
If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.
Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.
Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?
All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.
Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?
I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.
Then the whole discussion is pointless and the implication that Obama has something to hide is less than honest, isn't it?
Can we put this to bed... and then focus on real facts that really matter...
(http://texasdarlin.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/page-view.jpg?w=262&h=764&h=764)
(http://texasdarlin.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/close-up.jpg?w=303&h=99&h=99)
These birth announcements come straight from the State Records. The Hillary Clinton camp already tried to dig this dirt up to disqualify him, and don't you know that if there was any truth to this Hillary would have capitalized on it! I mean, who has the most at stake here -- she did and does! And I am sure with all the resources that the Clinton's have at their ready, if there was any merit at all to it, Hillary's team would have played that card a long time ago.
Let us sell the true story of John McCain and forget about the dirt of Barack Obama.
Thanks OneTruth. If this is the real deal, then it seems settled. As for selling the true story of John McCain, all I can say for him is that he isn't Barack Obama. Maybe you saw the thread where I asked those here who voted in the Republican primaries voted for McCain. I didn't and don't know anyone who did.
: kmv Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 10:21:08
: Gary Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:22:21
: kmv Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:20:18
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 08:37:40
: ElijahRev113 Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 02:57:39
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.
If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.
Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.
Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?
All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.
Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?
I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.
Then the whole discussion is pointless and the implication that Obama has something to hide is less than honest, isn't it?
If the Democrat who filed suit honestly believes Obama has something to hide, it doesn't make it less than honest. If the judge was provided those documents and ruled against the Democrat who filed, it would make said Democrat wrong.
: Gary Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 20:24:24
: kmv Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 10:21:08
: Gary Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:22:21
: kmv Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 09:20:18
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 08:37:40
: ElijahRev113 Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 02:57:39
I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html
Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.
Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.
Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.
If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.
Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.
Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?
All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.
Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?
I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.
Then the whole discussion is pointless and the implication that Obama has something to hide is less than honest, isn't it?
If the Democrat who filed suit honestly believes Obama has something to hide, it doesn't make it less than honest. If the judge was provided those documents and ruled against the Democrat who filed, it would make said Democrat wrong.
It is less than honest to give the impression that Obama has refused to release documents when no judge has asked for them.
Well again, that's an easily forged document. It would be very simple for me to make it look like I was born in Hawaii in 1961 as well with a basic scanner and photo-shop type software. Some graphic on a computer doesn't tell us anything.
The bottom line is, why won't Obama give it to the judge as John McCain did immediately upon being asked?
You can keep up with the suit at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/. As of right now, The DNC and Obama have filed a motion to delay discovery until after the defendant's (Barack Obama and the DNC) motion to dismiss is decided. So again, this just digs Obama in deeper. Why won't he allow the judge to take a look at the birth certificate (discovery) if Obama has one proving his natural-born citizenship? If there's no problem, why won't he give him the certificate?!
And by the way, I first heard about this when he was running against Hillary. I thought it was bunk and I'm betting that Hillary and Co. figured Obama would tie it up in court and she would just look desperate or something. This guy doesn't care what he looks like, he just wants Obama to provide the dang piece of paper. He requested that of McCain and Obama and McCain wasted no time giving all the documents to prove his citizenship. But not Obama. What does he have to hide?
I can derive from his absolute refusal to show the certificate that he is not a natural citizen. What other reason can there be? This could be one of the most historic events in American history.
If you want to keep up with the case also see http://www.obamacrimes.com
KMV said
It is less than honest to give the impression that Obama has refused to release documents when no judge has asked for them.
Not true. See http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/
The judge asked and Obama filed a motion to delay discovery (on October 6) until after defendants motion to dismiss is decided.
Plus, the Democrat who is suing Obama also investigated McCain. McCain complied immediately and was 100 percent forthcoming. But apparently Obama has something to hide. I would also think in this amount of time that he could have someone working on forgeries. But not one person has given me a good reason why Obama would not simply present the documents necessary if he's really a natural-born citizen. McCain did. And it would save Barack time, money and dismiss this issue. What is he hiding?
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 20:52:38
KMV said
It is less than honest to give the impression that Obama has refused to release documents when no judge has asked for them.
Not true. See http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/
The judge asked and Obama filed a motion to delay discovery (on October 6) until after defendants motion to dismiss is decided.
Plus, the Democrat who is suing Obama also investigated McCain. McCain complied immediately and was 100 percent forthcoming. But apparently Obama has something to hide. I would also think in this amount of time that he could have someone working on forgeries. But not one person has given me a good reason why Obama would not simply present the documents necessary if he's really a natural-born citizen. McCain did. And it would save Barack time, money and dismiss this issue. What is he hiding?
I'm not clear on this. Which of the linked documents is the judge's order, or request, for the birth certificate?
If you're going to say the final document, I don't think so. It appears to be just a form filed by the
loon plaintiff 'recommending' that the judge rule that way.
The document isn't dated, and it isn't signed. I know zip about the law, but I would sure expect that a legitimate court order, or judge's request, would have, you know - a date or something. Also, a signature.
As to why Obama doesn't answer every random loon who demands paperwork from him? How about this - I demand that you send me copies of your tax return. After all, it would save you time and money and dismiss the issue, right?
This is a non starter, and unworthy of legitimization by reasonable thinkers.
KMV,
I was referring to the link to the Federal District Court Filings & Dockets at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/
There you'll see the chain of events. As to the "every random loon" question, how many of those loons are lawyers who happen to be lifetime Democrats and a former Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania? The DNC has even gotten involved in this. You act like this is just someone emailing Obama requesting the information.
Obama and the DNC have filed motions to dismiss and then a motion to delay discovery. Your implication that this is just some "loon" is dishonest. If it were just some loon the DNC would not have stepped in. This is one of the DNC's own folks! I think you'd better take this seriously or else you might feel pretty silly in the near future.
Since you consider yourself an honest person though, why not allow yourself to be unbiased and nonpartisan for a few minutes and read what the former attorney general of Pennsylvania is presenting as the plantiff to the judge. He's a Democrat like you, so we all know he's honest: http://obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-main/28-phil-j-berg-files-amended-complaint-in-berg-v-obama
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 22:00:20
KMV,
I was referring to the link to the Federal District Court Filings & Dockets at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/
There you'll see the chain of events. As to the "every random loon" question, how many of those loons are lawyers who happen to be lifetime Democrats and a former Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania? The DNC has even gotten involved in this. You act like this is just someone emailing Obama requesting the information.
Obama and the DNC have filed motions to dismiss and then a motion to delay discovery. Your implication that this is just some "loon" is dishonest. If it were just some loon the DNC would not have stepped in. This is one of the DNC's own folks! I think you'd better take this seriously or else you might feel pretty silly in the near future.
Since you consider yourself an honest person though, why not allow yourself to be unbiased and nonpartisan for a few minutes and read what the former attorney general of Pennsylvania is presenting as the plantiff to the judge. He's a Democrat like you, so we all know he's honest: http://obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-main/28-phil-j-berg-files-amended-complaint-in-berg-v-obama
Yes, I got that it was a filing. But I don't see any document at all
from the judge. If I'm missing it, please tell me which document it is. Use the document number 1-18 if you would.
I simply don't see anything at all from the judge requiring, or requesting, that Obama release his birth certificate. Nothing signed by the judge; nothing dated.
Can anyone point to any evidence that a/the judge has asked Obama to produce his birth certificate?
If I'm missing it, please show me where. But it seems dishonest to me to continue to imply that the court, or judge, has in some way required or requested or 'asked' for the birth certificate.
****
As to the question of how many random loons are attorneys? Lots.
How many random loons are Democrats? Lots.
How many random loons are former Attornies General of the state of Pennsylvania? Looks like at least one.
: admin Tue Oct 14, 2008 - 20:49:27
And by the way, I first heard about this when he was running against Hillary. I thought it was bunk and I'm betting that Hillary and Co. figured Obama would tie it up in court and she would just look desperate or something. This guy doesn't care what he looks like, he just wants Obama to provide the dang piece of paper. He requested that of McCain and Obama and McCain wasted no time giving all the documents to prove his citizenship. But not Obama. What does he have to hide?
I have one more question, why has not one; one respected newspaper or news agency anywhere in the world carrying this story. None in the U.S., None in England, none in Canada, None in France, Italy, Germany, or Japan, etc. How come, the only people talking about this are on blogs, and forums? Because it is not worth the salt in bread for the world press to look at.
You are forcing me to defend a man I do not support, but I cannot allow this silliness to perpetuate. The best I could do was find this from Our beloved Foxnews, which says,
Candidates meet 'natural-born' test despite rumors
Friday, October 10, 2008
By ANN SANNER, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON — As John McCain and Barack Obama vie to become president, certain fevered voices persist in saying they should not even be allowed to try.
In an argument popular on the Internet and taken seriously practically nowhere else, critics of the candidates argue that each does not qualify to run for the White House because he's not a "natural-born citizen" as the Constitution requires."
I keep going back to this, but I will do this one more time, with all the resources, connections, security clearances of Hillary Clinton and John McCain, then all the International Press (Time, U.S. News & World Report, Newsweek, Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, CNSnews, BBC, etc.), none, absolutely none of them thinks this is worth their time, and you can be 100% assure that they had their best people look into this, because it would be the biggest, most money making, reputation building story they could produce.
This is clearly backfiring onto John. You want John to win don't you? and I know you do, so why are we continuing to do things, to say things, to perpetuate thing that are doing nothing more than hurting him!!!
It appears you have a great deal of resources at your disposal, why are you not using them to promote the positive of John! That is what we need to do and to sell it, and it is needed more now than ever!
A website is not legal proof of anything. This needs to be establish true or false in a court of law since it is a legal matter.
: kensington Tue Oct 07, 2008 - 22:49:20
"I don't understand why he wouldn't simply release his birth certificate"
He was hatched? ::shrug::
I have had one rotten day. Thank you SO much for the giggle! ::applause::
Two things.
One, KMV, I looked through that stuff and even contacted a lawyer friend because I don't understand the legal jargon. My lawyer friend said that it isn't clear if the judge denied a certain motion. It would take more digging and she didn't seem interested in doing it. If he did not deny the motion of discovery as asked early on when he did deny the restraining order and one other item, then he might have let it stand. It doesn't say.
But my honest, unpartisan question is, with a suit on him, why would Obama simply not present his birth certificate to the judge and end this? Obviously McCain doesn't have to answer every "loon" either but he complied when he was approached by the former attorney general of Pennsylvania and then was cleared.
Now that it's gone this far and a suit has been filed, I'm just baffled as to why Obama would not simply present it to the judge. He would have nothing to lose and at least some to gain if he was indeed a natural born citizen. Then he would have more to go on than just a picture on a website. He could say that it was confirmed by a judge.
So why does Obama object? Do you not think that's a fair question? If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?
: Cross-titled Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 09:48:54
: admin Wed Oct 08, 2008 - 00:08:37
Is this not profoundly odd to anyone else? Clinton released his. Gore, Dukkasis, McGovern. This is just weird.
It's not "profoundly odd." It's plain stupid. What's profoundly odd is that you even bring it up. That's what's "weird".
Yes, why should I care if Obama is eligible to be President? I just need to sit back and stop thinking. If I did that...I'd become a liberal. ::Admin quickly snaps back before the spell of mind numbness overtakes him::
: admin Thu Oct 16, 2008 - 00:25:23
... If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?
No, admin. If John McCain objected to releasing ANY information to some nutjob without a judge's request, legal requirement, or valid reason, it would NOT be fair to ask why he didn't.
: kmv Mon Oct 20, 2008 - 00:17:20
: admin Thu Oct 16, 2008 - 00:25:23
... If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?
No, admin. If John McCain objected to releasing ANY information to some nutjob without a judge's request, legal requirement, or valid reason, it would NOT be fair to ask why he didn't.
There is a "right to know" (the exact name of that "right" escapes me for the moment) re:
any and
all presidential candidates. Obama refuses information and documentation re: his college years, as well. One
must ask why he won't release requested information,
must ask what is he hiding from the American people.
It's getting more and more fascinating and historical:
==================================
Philip Berg (D-Pennsylvania) Says He Has a Recording of Barack Obama's Grandmother Claiming Kenyan Birth for Obama
The Pennsylvania Democrat who has sued Sen. Barack Obama demanding he prove his American citizenship – and therefore qualification to run for president – has confirmed he has a recording of a telephone call from the senator's paternal grandmother confirming his birth in Kenya.
But Philip J. Berg, a former deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania, told the Michael Savage talk radio program tonight that the document is forged and that he has a tape recording he will soon release.
"This has been a real sham he's pulled off for the last 20 months," Berg told Savage. "I'll release it [the tape] in a day or two, affidavits from her talking to a certain person. I heard the tape. She was speaking [to someone] here in the United States."
He said the telephone call was from Obama's paternal grandmother affirming she "was in the delivery room in Kenya when he was born Aug. 4, 1961." For that story, click here (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78931).
=========================================
Obama Legally 'Admits' to Being Born in Kenya
Pennsylvania Democrat Philip J. Berg, who filed a lawsuit demanding Sen. Barack Obama present proof of his American citizenship, now says that by failing to respond Obama has legally "admitted" to the lawsuit's accusations, including the charge that the Democratic candidate was born in Mombosa, Kenya.
As WND reported, Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court in August, alleging Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Though Obama has posted an image of a Hawaii birth certificate online, Berg demands that the court verify the original document, which the Obama campaign has not provided.
Now Berg cites Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.
Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen. Read story (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78671).
=====================================
Obama: Most Secretive Democratic Candidate Ever
Sen. Barack Obama's campaign says his campaign will bring a new level of honesty and transparency to the White House. Obama proudly touts that he and Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla, passed a law requiring more transparency via a public database of all federal spending.
But when it comes to offering the public documents about his own public and private activities, Obama's record for openness gets an "F" grade.
During the heated Democratic primary, Obama complained of the Bush White House being "one of the most secretive administrations in our history
The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html
There is something funky about this whole B.O. birth certificate deal, not to mention a LOT of murky things about his past.
Myself, I found his departure from the campaign trail to visit his ailing grandma in Hawaii this past week to be ... curious.
Just my gut feeling, but I think this thing explodes next week and becomes the true 'October Surprise' that folks have been waiting for.
Guess we just wait and see.
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 00:30:20
The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html
See, I told you that it was a fake... just like when he prays... like in that posed picture in the article! No one who lies as good as he does, can be saved. He isn't. Who is he praying to? Allah? I don't trust him... not one bit. I don't think he knows who God is. I wonder how much scripture he can even test to ever reading?
His "visiting gramma"... reeks of a Bill Clinton move. Strickly for looks. But, I do hope that she is OK. I don't wish pain or suffering on her in the least. I'm just convinced she is ailing... it seems to me she has been pretty shut in since he threw her under the bus... You'd think he would have visited her before, or we would have seen her. I think she has been put in her place and kept there for his political means that justify and end. IMHO.
BTW... BEFORE anyone jumps on me to say or ask how much Scripture I think Mc Cain knows... The answer is, I have no idea, but he doesn't set himself up to appear as though he does know much either. He comes off more humble than that. ::tippinghat::
: kensington Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 01:12:23
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 00:30:20
The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html
See, I told you that it was a fake... just like when he prays... like in that posed picture in the article! No one who lies as good as he does, can be saved. He isn't. Who is he praying to? Allah? I don't trust him... not one bit. I don't think he knows who God is. I wonder how much scripture he can even test to ever reading?
His "visiting gramma"... reeks of a Bill Clinton move. Strickly for looks. But, I do hope that she is OK. I don't wish pain or suffering on her in the least. I'm just convinced she is ailing... it seems to me she has been pretty shut in since he threw her under the bus... You'd think he would have visited her before, or we would have seen her. I think she has been put in her place and kept there for his political means that justify and end. IMHO.
(1) Even World Net Daily concedes the birth certificate is legitimate. The state of Hawaii has confirmed that Obama was born there. His birth announcement in the local paper has been located. Berg is going to wind up paying Obama's attorneys' costs when the case is dismissed.
(2) McCain puts his mom on the stage at campaign events or Meet The Press, and it's America and apple pie. Obama makes an expressly private visit to see his sick grandmother, and it's cynical political manipulation.
(3) Even Ken Adelman, let alone Colin Powell, has endorsed Obama; Adelman, one of the chief architects of the strategy of going into Iraq, believes that Obama can manage the war on terror better than McCain.
Just as Somalia is a failed state, the GOP is a failed political party. Just like the Whigs.
In 1848, Zachary Taylor was the last Whig candidate to win the Presidency. In the House 0f 1849 (the 31st Congress), the Whigs had 108 of 233 members, but were only five down from the Democrats. In the Senate of 1849, the Whigs had 25 senators out of 62.
(The Whig platform was pretty simple for its day: Congressional supremacy in reaction to Andrew Jackson, economic modernization (increased industrialization), a growth-oriented monetary policy, and federal funding of internal improvements like roads and canals.)
Taylor died in 1850, succeeded by his vice-president, Millard Fillmore, who - unlike John Taylor when the Whig President William Henry Harrison died in 1841 - remained consistently Whig. In the 1850 elections for the 32nd Congress, the Whigs dropped to 85 members out of 233 for the 32nd Congress and drop slightly to 23 senators out of 62.
What happens in 1852? The southern agenda of extending slavery into the territories splits the party. The southern Whigs prevent the nomination of the incumbent, Fillmore, for the Presidency; the party ultimately nominates Winfield Scott. The Democrat Franklin Pierce trounces Scott. At this point, even Lincoln, who had served in the House in the 30th Congress of 1847-49 and is leader of the Whigs in Illinois, stops his political career and concentrates on his law practice.
For the 33rd Congress (1853-55): 71 House Whigs out of 234; 22 senators out of 62.
For the 34th Congress (1855-57): the Whigs cease to function as an organized party. There are 100 members of the House in unorganized opposition to the Democrats, 22 senators out of 62.
The GOP was founded in 1854 as a mid-Western party, with any potential Southern obstructionists sheared off and takes the role of the opposition in both chambers of the 35th and 36th Congresses.
The 37th Congress? That's the election that brings Lincoln to the Presidency. Eight years from schism to completed oblivion.
2008 is shaping up to be the 1852 of the GOP unless it takes the necessary steps to become a national party once again. The Democrats, despite the mantra of "Obama's the most liberal senator ever" - which is disputable and based on a rather flawed survey of Senate votes - were, coming into this election cycle, a Center-Left party. Somehow, they're able to attract some impressive GOP endorsements like Powell and Adelman. If the Democratic Party can become a true centrist party - and they're a whole lot closer to that than the GOP will be anytime soon, then there is no role in the center for the GOP to fill.
And they're done. They're just the biggest of the marginal parties with no chance whatsoever of ever winning the Presidency.
At that point, they're the Whigs of 1852, dying from their own internal divisions and the movement of society as a whole from their social priorities.
Back to 2008. What will happen in eight years?
R.I.P.?
(My guess: regardless of whether McCain wins or loses, the party has to move to the center to live. Otherwise, they're the "Southern Republican Party".)
Somehow, they're able to attract some impressive GOP endorsements like Powell and Adelman.
Those are
impressive GOP endorsements??
I laffed.
: poptart Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 08:37:51
Somehow, they're able to attract some impressive GOP endorsements like Powell and Adelman.
Those are impressive GOP endorsements??
I laffed.
Your right....no one in the GOP is impressive
: kensington Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 01:12:23
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 00:30:20
The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html
See, I told you that it was a fake... just like when he prays... like in that posed picture in the article! No one who lies as good as he does, can be saved. He isn't. Who is he praying to? Allah? I don't trust him... not one bit. I don't think he knows who God is. I wonder how much scripture he can even test to ever reading?
His "visiting gramma"... reeks of a Bill Clinton move. Strickly for looks. But, I do hope that she is OK. I don't wish pain or suffering on her in the least. I'm just convinced she is ailing... it seems to me she has been pretty shut in since he threw her under the bus... You'd think he would have visited her before, or we would have seen her. I think she has been put in her place and kept there for his political means that justify and end. IMHO.
How the heck did Obama throw her under the bus? In his race speech? He probably told the absolute truth. A lot of my older relatives can be racist, they are a product of their times. If he didn't go to visit her you would call him uncaring. Sometimes I think people need to step back and think about what they are saying before they say it.
How is visiting ones grandma on her potential deathbed remotely curious? You are putting ghosts and devils in the most innocent of events. If anyone thinks its wierd to go and visit ones dying relative then you all need to start patching up with your families ::frustrated::
: sanctusivo Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 07:44:27
(My guess: regardless of whether McCain wins or loses, the party has to move to the center to live. Otherwise, they're the "Southern Republican Party".)
The party is already left of center. The entire political spectrum has moved so far left since the 60's that the center as it existed then is nearly unrecognizable.
sancobamalover,
World Net Daily has NOT said that the birth certificate pictures on Obama's website are legit. You're pulling a Joe Biden here and LYING. That's probably why you didn't cite a source. The links I just posted were from World Net Daily and they are questioning his citizenship status strongly. Though reality usually doesn't interest Obama supporters, here are actual sources from yesterday from World Net Daily strongly attacking Obama not releasing his birth certificate and stating that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78931
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78671
: kmv Mon Oct 20, 2008 - 00:17:20
: admin Thu Oct 16, 2008 - 00:25:23
... If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?
No, admin. If John McCain objected to releasing ANY information to some nutjob without a judge's request, legal requirement, or valid reason, it would NOT be fair to ask why he didn't.
Ah yes KMV, thank you for reminding me that anyone who questions His Highness Barack Hussein Obama is a nutjob. Funny though, that when this "nutjob" who happens to be a Democrat and former Attorney General for the state of Pennsylvania also approached John McCain, McCain turned over his birth certificate and all requested information. And yet Obama fights doing that and keeps hiding his citizenship information. People hide when they
have something to HIDE. But we are just to take Obama's word for it, right? We're just supposed to know. Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world because liberals always take conservatives word for it.
But I'm not even thinking that you or most of the others who support Obama will even care if it comes out that he is not a natural born citizen as the Constitution requires of a President. And even though, if that turns out to be the case, that he knew that and had been frauding the system this whole time, it won't matter because he's Obama and his supporters change their views to his rather than choosing a candidate based on issues. So if it comes out that he presented a fake certificate on his website and had been frauding the system by running despite being ineligible, Obama supporters will still want him to be allowed to be President I'm sure. But the Supreme Court will uphold the Constitution and a certain Mr. Howard Dean will be in deep excrement.
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 11:39:46
sancobamalover,
World Net Daily has NOT said that the birth certificate pictures on Obama's website are legit. You're pulling a Joe Biden here and LYING. That's probably why you didn't cite a source. The links I just posted were from World Net Daily and they are questioning his citizenship status strongly. Though reality usually doesn't interest Obama supporters, here are actual sources from yesterday from World Net Daily strongly attacking Obama not releasing his birth certificate and stating that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya.
admin
mycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):
I can play WND, (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214) too. See Drew Zahn on August 23, 2008 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214):
A separate WND investigation into Obama's birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.
: sanctusivo Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:04:16
adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):
Who was your candidate again? I forget cause I never hear his name...
: Charles Sloan Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:13:05
: sanctusivo Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:04:16
adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):
Who was your candidate again? I forget cause I never hear his name...
Jaime will vigorously dissent, but I'm voting for Bob Barr, the most conservative candidate I believe is on the ballot.
I just think that the preoccupation with Obama and personal attacks has doomed the McCain candidacy and damaged the GOP as a political vehicle for conservative ideals. Blathering on about birth certificates is not campaigning on ideas or issues. The McCain campaign and the RNC have admitted as much.
Problem is that there is so much identification of conservatism with the GOP that antics like Jerome Corsi and Phillip Berg damage conservatism and make the United States look unserious.
: sanctusivo Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:04:16
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 11:39:46
sancobamalover,
World Net Daily has NOT said that the birth certificate pictures on Obama's website are legit. You're pulling a Joe Biden here and LYING. That's probably why you didn't cite a source. The links I just posted were from World Net Daily and they are questioning his citizenship status strongly. Though reality usually doesn't interest Obama supporters, here are actual sources from yesterday from World Net Daily strongly attacking Obama not releasing his birth certificate and stating that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya.
adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):
I can play WND, (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214) too. See Drew Zahn on August 23, 2008 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214):
A separate WND investigation into Obama's birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.
If you were being honest, you'd point out that that was before Berg presented his evidence. Berg did not even get involved in the situation until August 2008. WND, as several others, thought that because Obama had a graphic on his website that it was decided. But that's just silly. I could put a picture on my website of all kinds of stuff but that doesn't prove anything. And the graphic on Obama's site is not even a birth certificate. Bottom line, McCain gave his information right away, Obama has refused for over a year now. Be dishonest all you want concerning the importance of this matter and point to a graphic on a website as "proof." I think you're going to drop your jaw in shock early November.
Just checked, you can't even get a passport with a Certificate of Live Birth. You must have a Birth Certificate.
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:25:06If you were being honest, you'd point out that that was before Berg presented his evidence. Berg did not even get involved in the situation until August 2008. WND, as several others, thought that because Obama had a graphic on his website that it was decided. But that's just silly. I could put a picture on my website of all kinds of stuff but that doesn't prove anything. And the graphic on Obama's site is not even a birth certificate. Bottom line, McCain gave his information right away, Obama has refused for over a year now. Be dishonest all you want concerning the importance of this matter and point to a graphic on a website as "proof." I think you're going to drop your jaw in shock early November.
Lee:
God love you, you're there at the barricades for family values and conservatism, and I appreciate you for that. I am always impressed that the forums are open and at the number of guests who come to your site. All of that is good.
But, the bottom line is that Berg has filed a lawsuit in Pennsylvania that is going absolutely nowhere. He has not stated a claim that the court will listen to: he simply cannot accuse someone of something and then demand that the accused prove himself not liable. We would all be broke from those kinds of lawsuits. What Obama's Kenyan grandmother says is hearsay and not admissible unless Berg can drag her here to testify. In any event, it's beyond clear and convincing evidence that there is no doubt that Obama was born in Honolulu.
Sure, Obama could produce whatever, but he can game the system just as much as Berg. And that is exactly what the Democrats are doing. They're not responding in kind, and folks like Berg and Limbaugh are going nutjob in counter-response. When they do that, the perception is that the entire GOP is nutjob, racist, and xenophobic.
And that is a perception that the Democrats have encouraged and nurtured among independent non-partisan voters. Why do you think that Democrats have been frustrated at Obama's unwillingness to go after McCain the way that McCain has been going after him? They don't understand the strategy. Obama looks calm, in control, mature; McCain, on the other hand, looks desperate, angry, and flailing. QED.
I don't think the damage can be undone at this point: the further pursuit of the birth certificate meme is now meant to motivate the GOP in minority status and to attempt to delegitimize an Obama presidency. Thirty years ago, that might have worked over time, but our demographics are changing, and the GOP is ill-suited to adapt to the changes. It won't work this time. If American conservatism continues to links its fortunes with the GOP, they will be marginalized as a national political and societal force. The GOP will become a small party of a membership of only white people, the Grand Old "Get Off My Lawn" Party. A sad, sad fate for the political movement that once preserved the Union.
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:43:35
Just checked, you can't even get a passport with a Certificate of Live Birth. You must have a Birth Certificate.
Incorrect, I've gotten my passports with the same kind of certificate of live birth. I've never had to use a record of live birth.
You have to produce a copy of a birth certificate according to the http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html
It says: When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11. All documentation submitted as citizenship evidence will be returned to you. These documents will be delivered with your newly issued U.S. passport or in a separate mailing.
Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):
Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport
Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*
Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
Naturalization Certificate
Certificate of Citizenship
Sorry about that citing source thing, it's just a habit of mine.
By the way, Phil Berg was interviewed by Michael Savage a couple of days ago. Listen to the interview, you'll need to fast forward to the 18 minute mark. (http://www.talkradionetwork.com/premiumstream?dispid=304&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD0zNDI2JnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0JmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzA0JnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT0xMA==)
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 13:15:10Sorry about that citing source thing, it's just a habit of mine.
I'm just telling you, dude, I got my first passport with the birth certificate I got from the state of Tennessee down at the Cordell Hull building on the same kind of green certificate paper that Obama's is printed on.
And I'm telling you that there's a difference between a Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Live Birth. But feel free to disagree with what the government tells you is required.
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 13:38:20
And I'm telling you that there's a difference between a Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Live Birth. But feel free to disagree with what the government tells you is required.
Actually, there's not. What I think you're thinking of is a Record of Live Birth, the document with names, parents, birth times, weights, and doctor's names. That is NOT what is required for a passport.
Do you have a passport?
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 13:15:10
By the way, Phil Berg was interviewed by Michael Savage a couple of days ago. Listen to the interview, you'll need to fast forward to the 18 minute mark. (http://www.talkradionetwork.com/premiumstream?dispid=304&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD0zNDI2JnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0JmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzA0JnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT0xMA==)
Great information! ::thumbup::
: sanctusivo Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:47:34
: admin Sat Oct 25, 2008 - 12:25:06If you were being honest, you'd point out that that was before Berg presented his evidence. Berg did not even get involved in the situation until August 2008. WND, as several others, thought that because Obama had a graphic on his website that it was decided. But that's just silly. I could put a picture on my website of all kinds of stuff but that doesn't prove anything. And the graphic on Obama's site is not even a birth certificate. Bottom line, McCain gave his information right away, Obama has refused for over a year now. Be dishonest all you want concerning the importance of this matter and point to a graphic on a website as "proof." I think you're going to drop your jaw in shock early November.
Lee:
God love you, you're there at the barricades for family values and conservatism, and I appreciate you for that. I am always impressed that the forums are open and at the number of guests who come to your site. All of that is good.
But, the bottom line is that Berg has filed a lawsuit in Pennsylvania that is going absolutely nowhere. He has not stated a claim that the court will listen to: he simply cannot accuse someone of something and then demand that the accused prove himself not liable. We would all be broke from those kinds of lawsuits. What Obama's Kenyan grandmother says is hearsay and not admissible unless Berg can drag her here to testify. In any event, it's beyond clear and convincing evidence that there is no doubt that Obama was born in Honolulu.
Sure, Obama could produce whatever, but he can game the system just as much as Berg. And that is exactly what the Democrats are doing. They're not responding in kind, and folks like Berg and Limbaugh are going nutjob in counter-response. When they do that, the perception is that the entire GOP is nutjob, racist, and xenophobic.
And that is a perception that the Democrats have encouraged and nurtured among independent non-partisan voters. Why do you think that Democrats have been frustrated at Obama's unwillingness to go after McCain the way that McCain has been going after him? They don't understand the strategy. Obama looks calm, in control, mature; McCain, on the other hand, looks desperate, angry, and flailing. QED.
I don't think the damage can be undone at this point: the further pursuit of the birth certificate meme is now meant to motivate the GOP in minority status and to attempt to delegitimize an Obama presidency. Thirty years ago, that might have worked over time, but our demographics are changing, and the GOP is ill-suited to adapt to the changes. It won't work this time. If American conservatism continues to links its fortunes with the GOP, they will be marginalized as a national political and societal force. The GOP will become a small party of a membership of only white people, the Grand Old "Get Off My Lawn" Party. A sad, sad fate for the political movement that once preserved the Union.
Ha! You wish it was that way. The case is going somewhere and if you bothered to look at the court history thus far you'd see that. The DNC even stepped in on this! If it was just some nutjob they would have ignored it. And furthermore, if it were easily dimissed they would have gotten Obama to produce the document. But he hasn't and the question STILL IS; why not?
And for your information there isn't "clear and convincing evidence" that he was born in Hawaii. That's just a nothing statement. He won't give that information to the judge. He won't prove it. Based on your logic, Osama Bin Laden could run for President and we'd just have to take him at his word that he was a natural born citizen without him providing any documentation.
Phil Berg is not asking it be given to him, personally, but to the judge. And Obama hasn't. They motioned to dismiss and motioned to delay discovery. This is not some small town court and not a newbie lawyer. Phil Berg is a lifetime Democrat. Feel free to put your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand. It's sad that you don't even have a passing curiosity why Obama won't just hand the certificate to the judge. Nothing would seal the deal more for Obama. But he hasn't. If John McCain hadn't it would be all over the news constantly. They'd be updating what was happening in the case daily. But it's Obama and so there's no curiosity.
Why? Because people treat this like a ball game. They want their team to win and don't even care about the issues. So what Obama is out of the mainstream on issue after issue. Democrats want him because he's on their team and others because he's not George Bush.
But again, if you listen to the Michael Savage interview of Phil Berg, he gives some hints on what is about to happen. I think something very historic is about to happen. But feel free to tell us that we should just take Obama at his word......when McCain provided all the documents proving his eligibility requested of him. People think there's no way that someone would run if they weren't eligible so they dismiss it. And yet Obama still won't hand the judge the document that would ridicule the right and send him into the White House. Why? Because he was born in Kenya as his grandmother said.
Update, the judge dismissed the case. Berg is immediately appealing it to the Supreme Court. Too bad the judge is simply taking Obama's word. Why not just ask him to present proof and end it? Can anyone who says they are a United States citizen run for President and not be questioned? When I saw the title of the article I thought I would read that Obama presented a vaulted copy of his birth certificate to prove he's a citizen. But no, Obama "motioned to dismiss" rather than produce a birth certificate. It just doesn't make any sense.
Here are Philip Berg's comments:
(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/25/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama's lack of "qualifications
It could have just been thrown out because there was no case and that the certificate has been shown to everyone. There is always going to be people who look for ghosts and devils.
: admin Sun Oct 26, 2008 - 15:20:32Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama's lack of "qualifications
Bottom line is, I don't understand why Obama is fighting to keep from proving he's eligible. A picture on a website doesn't prove anything at all. A picture on a website is not even admissible in court. So again, the question that still hasn't been answered is, why is Obama not producing his birth certificate.
If it were some guy on Youtube or some blogger, why bother? But this guy is a former D. Attorney General from Pennsylvania who filed in Federal Court. And Obama filing motions to dismiss and then later a motion to delay discovery was much more time consuming and expensive in legal fees than simply handing his birth certificate to the judge. He could have removed all doubt.
But he would rather fight to keep from having to produce a basic document. Very strange. There are other details that you wouldn't know unless you read all of Phil Berg's arguments, but one is that Obama travelled to a certain country in the early 1980s (I don't remember the country or date but Berg gives the specific city and country and the exact day). And at the time, the country was not allowing American citizens to enter. Another citizenship had to be on your passport. Yet Obama entered just fine.
It's just odd. I'd feel better about Obama being President, even as much as I think he is too inexperienced, a socialist, a tax hiker and a baby killer, if he'd just produce proof he is a natural-born citizen. And if he truly is, I don't understand why he would fight to keep from proving that. Other Presidents provided much more than Obama. He has kept more in secret than any nominated candidate in history (source (http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_secrecy/2008/10/22/143157.html)).
Maybe he is keeping it a big secret so on inauguration day, he can get sworn in and hold it above his head in some kind of macabre ironic unveiling, it revealing he is some horrid blend of every nationality in the axis of evil.
Laughing manically he fires lightning bolts into the crowd as Darth Vader steps up beside him. The Uraki, orcs and goblins surround the crowd mashing people up. Meanwhile, all the children on earth playing video games cry as Dr Robotnik manifests himself from the Sega consoles with is army of Bavarian Child snatchers.
Meanwhile back to the actual inauguration, Dark Lord Obama is announcing his cabinet...Lex Luther, Hannibal, the Green goblin, V.I.K.I. (with an honor guard of NS-5's) and Queen Arachnia from star trek Voyager....oh and global warming becomes director of environment policy.
Lord Voldemort also simultaneously becomes Comrade president of the new Socialist wizarding community.
::cool:: All Hail Comrade Obama
You forgot the bipartisanship of Obama as he keeps Beelzebush around with his Risian Hurricane Generator.
: admin Sun Oct 26, 2008 - 16:25:45
Bottom line is, I don't understand why Obama is fighting to keep from proving he's eligible. A picture on a website doesn't prove anything at all. A picture on a website is not even admissible in court. So again, the question that still hasn't been answered is, why is Obama not producing his birth certificate.
What I think is that, since Obama knows he was born in Honolulu and that he is a U.S. citizen (after all, since he's been able to travel overseas while in office, he therefore has a valid passport and therefore has a valid birth certificate to obtain said passport), he knows the lawsuit is absolutely ridiculous and he has no intention of co-operating with a nutjob like Phil Berg. If I was being accused of something ridiculous and had the resources to tie my opponent in knots, I would mess with the guy and see how stupid he can act.
(Bottom line is that Phil is going to lose a lot of money and maybe even his law license.)
Phil goes boffo nutso, and everyone who has signed up for this tinfoil conspiracy looks like a bunch of fools. Even McCain hasn't touched this one: that should be a sign for anyone.
Anyone who is taking Berg seriously has made a serious error in judgment.
If he has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding it? Why is he dragging it out until after the election, when it seems that clearing his name/citizenship on this issue might garner him a few more votes? It isn't logical behavior of an innocent person.
: phoebe Sun Oct 26, 2008 - 18:58:10
If he has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding it? Why is he dragging it out until after the election, when it seems that clearing his name/citizenship on this issue might garner him a few more votes? It isn't logical behavior of an innocent person.
First of all, it's not his responsibility to prove himself not liable ("innocence" is something more related to a criminal case); it's the plaintiff's obligation. If all Berg has is a Kenyan grandmother he can't get into the country and fourth-hand hearsay and rumor, a judge is going to throw him out of court and assess him opposing party's court costs for being an idiot.
It's logical behavior to defend himself in court, and he has in the most efficient way: the case has been tossed on a pre-trial motion.
Sanctiviso,
Defend himself against what?! That's the whole question. Why would Obama want to "defend himself" from proving he's a natural born citizen? Why didn't McCain object? It was over a year ago that Obama and McCain were approached on this matter. McCain immediately gave proof. No him-hawing around and hiring lawyers to protect him from having to divulge proof he's a natural born citizen....or not. Obama has held this up over a year and actually fought it in court. It's not like he was accused of a crime. That's when you defend yourself. When you're asked in a Federal Court to prove you're eligible to hold the highest office in the world by presenting a single document, you do it!
Congratulations Obama supporters! Obama has just proven that it doesn't matter if he's constitutionally eligible or not because he can play the game of legal technicalities to keep from having to prove it. Bravo on backing such a great guy.
::sarcasm::
It is frightening that a possible President would have so little vetting and examination. Obama gets pass after pass after pass after pass and now it's on something that is nonpartisan. It's an issue that all Americans should be concerned with. Both he and John McCain were approached and asked to prove their eligibilty. One immediately provided information proving his eligibility. The other refused for a year, hired lawyers, fought having to prove eligibility in court by motioning to dismiss and delay discovery.
I'm telling you right now, if I were backing a candidate who put this much fuss and fight into refusing to prove he's a natural-born citizen and, thus, eligible to be President, I'd be thinking something is most certainly wrong with the picture. But who cares. He's Barack Hussein Obama the magic dragon and can do no wrong. Pathetic!
If Obama was born in Kenya, you can believe Hillary would not have let it slide.
Obama's Birth Certificate Sealed by Hawaii Governor
Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.
HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances. Full Story (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174)
Hiding much are we?
: admin Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 10:39:59Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.
The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.
: sanctusivo Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 12:29:05
: admin Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 10:39:59Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.
The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.
What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? She's a liberal protecting another liberal from her state. There are liberal Republicans you know. Far too many.
: admin Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 10:39:59
Obama's Birth Certificate Sealed by Hawaii Governor
Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.
HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances. Full Story (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174)
Hiding much are we?
Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
: sanctusivo Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 12:29:05
: admin Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 10:39:59Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.
The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.
Intrigue knows no partisanship.
: sanctusivo Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 12:29:05
: admin Mon Oct 27, 2008 - 10:39:59Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.
The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.
I'm shocked to hear to that. Really. Hawaii is supposed to be a solid democrat state. We learn something new every day.
Hiding much are we?
[/quote]
anyone else find it strange that Obama went to Hawaii this late in the campaign? I know it was supposedly to see his sick grandmother, but he didn't take his family? I find it strange, of course I think Obama is a liar and will do anything to become president.
Might be about time to bump this one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts#comment
It's going to be an interesting few weeks, folks.