Christians are Criminals on Probation
Christians are......criminals, on probation.
Point #1.) I was a sinner...I broke the Law....God's Law (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).
Point #2.) I asked forgiven for my my 'past' sins, (Romans 3:25) by Jesus Christ, with the idea that I would not commit any known sin again....hence probation.
Point #3.) In order for Jesus Christ is get me qualified for heaven (Be perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect), Jesus must show me any sin that I am not yet aware of, and correct any sinful habit which would marr the faultless character which Jesus Christ is trying to bring out in me.
Point #4.) It is then, 'my' responsibilty to correct those faults in my present character, thru grace, which God gives me freely....as I have not the strenght to do the that work, in my human power alone.
As scripture says: 'Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' (Phillippians 2:12).
This refers to that part, we as Christian play, in our own Salvation, which is brought out in point #5........
Point #5.) Temptations ...are the testing ground by which my character is tested, on a daily basis.
The 10 commandments, as found in Exodus 20:3-17 is God's standard of Righteousness, to check my progress.
And, Jesus Christ says:
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life ?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Believe in His promises to lead and guide you. To never leave nor forsake you. To empower you with the Holy Spirit and lead you through the paths of righteousness and you will have life abundantly.
It's not His will that any should perish. Believe He is transforming you to the image of His Son and your faith will get it done.
You have spoken of sin and we know what the Lord says about that, so go with a determined heart and a made up mind that His grace is sufficient.
: Bonnie Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 18:22:59
Believe in His promises to lead and guide you.
What you say is true, BUT let me fill in the details of what you say, OK ?
You mean like.....
Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:
58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it].
This contains a promise, as is the one below.....
56:2 Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
To never leave nor forsake you.
It is we...who leave God.....Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
To empower you with the Holy Spirit and lead you through the paths of righteousness and you will have life abundantly.
And what does the Bible define as righteousness ?
119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word:
for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.
It's not His will that any should perish. Believe He is transforming you to the image of His Son and your faith will get it done.
James 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
You have spoken of sin and we know what the Lord says about that, so go with a determined heart and a made up mind that His grace is sufficient.
But, so many people do not...know how God, defines sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
For example....how many people in the Christian world realize that it is a sin, to ignore the Lord's Day, the 7th day sabbath..... in favor of Sunday worship services ?
Hi, I love those answers taken from Scripture.
Yes, it is true that most are divided on the Sabbath. In my area if you want to fellowship with others you will meet on Sunday or not at all.
What is your suggestion? Or do you take the Sabbath on Saturday?
: Bonnie Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 19:07:46
Hi, I love those answers taken from Scripture.
Yes, it is true that most are divided on the Sabbath. In my area if you want to fellowship with others you will meet on Sunday or not at all.
What is your suggestion?
Start a home church, with just a couple people interested in what the Bible really says, or.... rent a building to hold Sabbath meetings in them.
Or do you take the Sabbath on Saturday?
The Bible has told us which day is the sabbath.
The Scriptures below tells us that the sabbth was the day before Jesus arose from the grave.
Luke 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Chapter 24
24:1 Now upon the first [day] of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain [others] with them.
24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
I disagree... there is no probation. We are sinners who have been bought a "Pardon" ... with a pardon comes no probation. No one is watching us to make sure we don't sin again, and then take way our pardon.
We can sin away our gift, but no one is waiting to see if we do or take it when we fall short. That is what probation is... a pardon is "Set free of all crimes".
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:16:15
I disagree... there is no probation. We are sinners who have been bought a "Pardon" ... with a pardon comes no probation. No one is watching us to make sure we don't sin again, and then take way our pardon.
We can sin away our gift, but no one is waiting to see if we do or take it when we fall short. That is what probation is... a pardon is "Set free of all crimes".
You may not know about the 'Investigative Judgment' for Christians......
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come]
that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it]
first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?
: 3AM Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:25:50
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:16:15
I disagree... there is no probation. We are sinners who have been bought a "Pardon" ... with a pardon comes no probation. No one is watching us to make sure we don't sin again, and then take way our pardon.
We can sin away our gift, but no one is waiting to see if we do or take it when we fall short. That is what probation is... a pardon is "Set free of all crimes".
You may not know about the 'Investigative Judgment' for Christians......
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?
No... I know about that, but I know that when we are saved, washed in the blood of the Lamb.. we are clean, and there is no probation. We are His, paid for with a price. He is not sitting above us keeping score. We are free, our sins thrown into the sea of forgetfulness.
Probation implies that NO ONE has forgotten what you did BEFORE and that they still hold the paper on your judgement for those crimes. If you violate that probation, then you do the paper. You go back and finish the time you were given. If you are good, and finish the probation, while someone keeps score and watches, then you get to stay free. But, your conviction is always there, never wiped off of your record. That is not how salvation works.
(I know how probation works... due to family members, prison and all that)
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:37:50
: 3AM Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:25:50
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:16:15
I disagree... there is no probation. We are sinners who have been bought a "Pardon" ... with a pardon comes no probation. No one is watching us to make sure we don't sin again, and then take way our pardon.
We can sin away our gift, but no one is waiting to see if we do or take it when we fall short. That is what probation is... a pardon is "Set free of all crimes".
You may not know about the 'Investigative Judgment' for Christians......
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?
No... I know about that, but I know that when we are saved, washed in the blood of the Lamb.. we are clean, and there is no probation. We are His, paid for with a price. He is not sitting above us keeping score. We are free, our sins thrown into the sea of forgetfulness.
Again......you may not understand HOW Judgment works.
There is a reason the Books of record are kept, on each and every individual person.....
33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his [righteousness] in the day that he sinneth.
33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Probation implies that NO ONE has forgotten what you did BEFORE and that they still hold the paper on your judgement for those crimes. If you violate that probation, then you do the paper. You go back and finish the time you were given. If you are good, and finish the probation, while someone keeps score and watches, then you get to stay free.
But, your conviction is always there, never wiped off of your record.
And when the Judgment Day comes, THEN that record is clean forevermore, for all eternity.
That is not how salvation works.
Salvation occurs ONLY when a person has eliminated every possible sin, from their life.
Then, a person is truely saved, from sin.
God is always in the process of showing us new things we need to get rid of out of our lives.....it is an on-going process.
Salvation, is not a one time event, where you immediatedly cease to commit any more sins.
Christians need to study EVERYTHING about HOW God's Judgment works......it is part of the "EverLasting Gospel' message.
: 3AM Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:58:24
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:37:50
: 3AM Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:25:50
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 21:16:15
I disagree... there is no probation. We are sinners who have been bought a "Pardon" ... with a pardon comes no probation. No one is watching us to make sure we don't sin again, and then take way our pardon.
We can sin away our gift, but no one is waiting to see if we do or take it when we fall short. That is what probation is... a pardon is "Set free of all crimes".
You may not know about the 'Investigative Judgment' for Christians......
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?
No... I know about that, but I know that when we are saved, washed in the blood of the Lamb.. we are clean, and there is no probation. We are His, paid for with a price. He is not sitting above us keeping score. We are free, our sins thrown into the sea of forgetfulness.
Again......you may not understand HOW Judgment works.
There is a reason the Books of record are kept, on each and every individual person.....
33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his [righteousness] in the day that he sinneth.
33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Probation implies that NO ONE has forgotten what you did BEFORE and that they still hold the paper on your judgement for those crimes. If you violate that probation, then you do the paper. You go back and finish the time you were given. If you are good, and finish the probation, while someone keeps score and watches, then you get to stay free.
But, your conviction is always there, never wiped off of your record.
And when the Judgment Day comes, THEN that record is clean forevermore, for all eternity.
That is not how salvation works.
Salvation occurs ONLY when a person has eliminated every possible sin, from their life.
Then, a person is truely saved, from sin.
God is always in the process of showing us new things we need to get rid of out of our lives.....it is an on-going process.
Salvation, is not a one time event, where you immediatedly cease to commit any more sins.
Christians need to study EVERYTHING about HOW God's Judgment works......it is part of the "EverLasting Gospel' message.
We are getting a lot of very draconian, preachy, doctrinal legalism here of late. Can I ask what then is the beginning and the life of the saved, under the three commands of The Great Commission?
Thanks in advance,
Robert
No... your "probation" implies that salvation is not free. That we are held hostage to our previous sins and if we are good enough at Judgment we can have it.
This cannot be so, or the blood of Jesus would not have had to be shed for us. We could have just been good.
Either Jesus blood shed at Calvary is enough or it isn't. Salvation is free to "Those who believe" ..
John 3:16 ... "For God so loved the world that he GAVE His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"
It does not say... that whosever is good enough as I keep score.
There is only ONE book we need to worry about... The Lambs Book of Life".. name in, or name out. By the Blood of the Lamb.
I'll say this...
I am going to TRUST the BLOOD of Jesus to be getting me to Heaven... not my own goodness. That would be foolish.
The Bible tells us what we must do to be saved and that is to 'believe in God and the one who He has sent' ie Jesus. Jesus saves us. We can not and do not save ourselves. Jesus has taken away our sins and we are in Gods sight sinless because of what jesus has done. Of course we need to pray and repent of things we do wrong, but if we had to be perfect ourselves without Jesus to get to heaven, no one would get there.
No one is sinless except Jesus, so without Him we have NO HOPE. None of us, not even you, are sinless. We ALL make mistakes and sin.
Are you saying that you are sinless?.........I dont think so. Are you saying that you aLWAYS keep all of the commandments?...........I dont think so Thats is why we ALL need Jesus. if we were sinless we wouldnt need Jesus and his death woudl have been a total waste of time.
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:11:23
No... your "probation" implies that salvation is not free. That we are held hostage to our previous sins and if we are good enough at Judgment we can have it.
This cannot be so, or the blood of Jesus would not have had to be shed for us. We could have just been good.
Either Jesus blood shed at Calvary is enough or it isn't. Salvation is free to "Those who believe" ..
John 3:16 ... "For God so loved the world that he GAVE His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"
It does not say... that whosever is good enough as I keep score.
Perhaps I should add this Bible verse ....
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
There is only ONE book we need to worry about... The Lambs Book of Life".. name in, or name out. By the Blood of the Lamb.
AH....BUT the Bible says that a person's name can be...taken out of that Book.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
However, those who believe in the, "Once Saved, Always Saved theory...usually ignore or reject that Bible verse....as well as reject other Bible verses, which basicly say the same thing.
You are mistaken my friend.... about me.
I firmly believe on Hebrews 10 but not as a probation for Christians who walk with the LORD. It is referring to Christians who believe they can live ungodly and still be saved, for those who choose to willfully sin in life and use being saved as a doormat. It's not a probation for those who are actually striving and contending for the Gospel and to be pleasing to Jesus.
I do not believe once saved always saved. You jumped the gun on that misconception. I believe that Born again Christians can indeed choose to sin themselves right out of grace by trampling underfoot the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and insulting the Holy Spirit.
But, I do not believe that we are on a probation until judgment day when we will be granted salvation. We have it now, and what we do with it is up to us... we can walk in it and hold fast to the Gospel of Jesus Christ or we can abuse it and sin or backslide from it.
But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.
: 3AM Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:18:12
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
However, those who believe in the, "Once Saved, Always Saved theory...usually ignore or reject that Bible verse....as well as reject other Bible verses, which basicly say the same thing.
Do you really understand what you are saying? I can help you with syntaxial Greek if you wish for present and past tense data. That admonition is for the Apocrypha as revealed to John of Patmos, since he was so bizarre in strength and they had trouble killing him 5 different times. He was a Boanergez as well.
And where you addressed this: "Once Saved, Always Saved theory...usually ignore or reject that Bible verse", I do not understand as those are totally unrelated topics. You are, in fact, saved once, not a yo-yo in soul bounce.
Hope that is helpful.
Robert
: RAMS Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 23:47:31
: 3AM Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:18:12
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
However, those who believe in the, "Once Saved, Always Saved theory...usually ignore or reject that Bible verse....as well as reject other Bible verses, which basicly say the same thing.
Do you really understand what you are saying? I can help you with syntaxial Greek if you wish for present and past tense data. That admonition is for the Apocrypha as revealed to John of Patmos, since he was so bizarre in strength and they had trouble killing him 5 different times. He was a Boanergez as well.
And where you addressed this: "Once Saved, Always Saved theory...usually ignore or reject that Bible verse", I do not understand as those are totally unrelated topics. You are, in fact, saved once, not a yo-yo in soul bounce.
Hope that is helpful.
Robert
There is the
Investigative Judgment Day for Christian yet to come, wherein then it will be decided whether a person's name will be kept in the Book of Life, or their names will be taken out of the Book of Life.
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:13:10
I'll say this...
I am going to TRUST the BLOOD of Jesus to be getting me to Heaven... not my own goodness. That would be foolish.
::amen:: You can keep all the commandments PERFECTLY, But without accepting Christ..It means nothing
: Corbley Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 15:46:08
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:13:10
I'll say this...
I am going to TRUST the BLOOD of Jesus to be getting me to Heaven... not my own goodness. That would be foolish.
::amen:: You can keep all the commandments PERFECTLY, But without accepting Christ..It means nothing
But, no person can keep all God's commandments without Jesus Christ, in the life.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Which means that no one has ...kept God's commandments.
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 14:42:26
There is the Investigative Judgment Day for Christian yet to come, wherein then it will be decided whether a person's name will be kept in the Book of Life, or their names will be taken out of the Book of Life.
This day will come for believers & non-believers. But it has nothing to do with "un-saving" a born again christian. God says when we are forgiven our sins are cast into the depths of the sea. Jesus died for us so God did not need an "eraser contingent on sinning" for the Book of Life.
I believe that all forgiven/unforgiven sins will be known, as nothing is hidden from God, but the Bible clearly states that there is only one un-forgiveable sin. To reject this, is to reject the blood sacrifice, which is more dangerous than not believing in an Investigative Judgment that could alter your eternal resting place.
: fanuvmxpx Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 18:05:10
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 14:42:26
There is the Investigative Judgment Day for Christian yet to come, wherein then it will be decided whether a person's name will be kept in the Book of Life, or their names will be taken out of the Book of Life.
This day will come for believers & non-believers. But it has nothing to do with "un-saving" a born again christian. God says when we are forgiven our sins are cast into the depths of the sea. Jesus died for us so God did not need an "eraser contingent on sinning" for the Book of Life.
I believe that all forgiven/unforgiven sins will be known, as nothing is hidden from God, but the Bible clearly states that there is only one un-forgiveable sin. To reject this, is to reject the blood sacrifice, which is more dangerous than not believing in an Investigative Judgment that could alter your eternal resting place.
Man-O-Man....are you for a surprise !!!!Having NOT read everything in the Bible about God's Judgment day, a
lot of people are in for a BIG surprise.
Judgment Day is part of the EverLasting Gospel message......
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him;
for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 18:28:54
Man-O-Man....are you for a surprise !!!!
Having NOT read everything in the Bible about God's Judgment day, a lot of people are in for a BIG surprise.
Judgment Day is part of the EverLasting Gospel message......
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
I'll take my chances and place all my bets on Jesus dying for me. I'm all in for God.
: fanuvmxpx Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:05:07
I'll take my chances and place all my bets on Jesus dying for me. I'm all in for God.
Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection, is just one part of the WHOLE Gospel message....where is the rest of it ?
I don't think probation is the right word but one can get out of favor with God for continual disobedience to His Word, for not submitting to His Will and dishonoring that which is holy, good and upright in His sight.
: Bonnie Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:21:38
I don't think probation is the right word but one can get out of favor with God for continual disobedience to His Word, for not submitting to His Will and dishonoring that which is holy, good and upright in His sight.
The bottom line is then.......to study the Bible, to learn EVERYTHING of what the will of God is for our daily lives ?
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:36:00
But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.
Have you ever studied what Jesus Christ is doing right now, today....according to the OT Sanctuary services ?
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:24:24
: Bonnie Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:21:38
I don't think probation is the right word but one can get out of favor with God for continual disobedience to His Word, for not submitting to His Will and dishonoring that which is holy, good and upright in His sight.
The bottom line is then.......to study the Bible, to learn EVERYTHING of what the will of God is for our daily lives ?
Yes, without studying we can't possibly know how to please God. Meditating upon it and letting it really set in our minds. God wants us ~ our whole hearts.
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:24:24
The bottom line is then.......to study the Bible, to learn EVERYTHING of what the will of God is for our daily lives ?
I agree 3AM. You cannot "accept" the gospel message and then live your life how you want, it nullifies your "acceptance" of the gospel message. And you are correct that I only clarified the "reason" for why we are saved and not "what needs to change" in our lives in order to truly accept that blessing. For if you claim to believe, but show no fruits, then did you truly believe at all?
Our nature must change and our hearts then our goals and our lives will change.
ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
: Bonnie Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:47:36
ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
This is the key point....... For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The Law can't save anyone...it can only point out where we are in error.
THEN, we go to Jesus and ask forgiveness, and help to correct those errors.
Jesus condenmed sin...by not doing anything against God's commandments.
Showing us...what we can also do, IF we put our total faith in Him.
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:28:56
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:36:00
But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.
Have you ever studied what Jesus Christ is doing right now, today....according to the OT Sanctuary services ?
3am You can NEVER be good enough...You can not be rightous. We will always fall short.
We do the best we can do and when we do sin...repent and try to avoid that sin again.
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 20:25:05
: Bonnie Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:47:36
ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
This is the key point....... For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The Law can't save anyone...it can only point out where we are in error.
THEN, we go to Jesus and ask forgiveness, and help to correct those errors.
Jesus condenmed sin...by not doing anything against God's commandments.
Showing us...what we can also do, IF we put our total faith in Him.
Amen!
: Corbley Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 22:34:11
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:28:56
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:36:00
But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.
Have you ever studied what Jesus Christ is doing right now, today....according to the OT Sanctuary services ?
3am You can NEVER be good enough...You can not be rightous. We will always fall short.
We do the best we can do and when we do sin...repent and try to avoid that sin again.
That is also true, Corbley, we cannot be sinless by nature but we can strive to be.
: Corbley Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 22:34:11
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:28:56
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:36:00
But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.
Have you ever studied what Jesus Christ is doing right now, today....according to the OT Sanctuary services ?
3am You can NEVER be good enough...You can not be rightous. We will always fall short.
We do the best we can do and when we do sin...repent and try to avoid that sin again.
SO...you're telling me to reject what Jesus Christ said ?
Sorry, can't do that.
For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is no his own.
Otherwise He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
And inasmuch as it is appointed to men to die once and after comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Heb.9:24-28
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, "This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their heart, and on their mind I will write them, He then says, "And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
Now where there is forgiveness of these things there is no longer any offering for sin. Rom.10
: 3AM Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:36:42
: Corbley Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 22:34:11
: 3AM Sat Nov 22, 2008 - 19:28:56
: kensington Sun Nov 16, 2008 - 22:36:00
But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.
Have you ever studied what Jesus Christ is doing right now, today....according to the OT Sanctuary services ?
3am You can NEVER be good enough...You can not be rightous. We will always fall short.
We do the best we can do and when we do sin...repent and try to avoid that sin again.
SO...you're telling me to reject what Jesus Christ said ?
Sorry, can't do that.
No cling to what Christ said:
No one come to the Father but by me
There is None Rightious, no not one
For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.
he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation
: Corbley Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 16:46:08
[For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.
he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation
Works, only are the proof that one has Salvation.
Just as the keeping of ALL God's commandments are proof, that a person has Jesus Christ working in their lives.
We don't keep the commandments
to be saved....we keep them
because we are Saved.
: 3AM Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 17:01:05
: Corbley Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 16:46:08
[For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.
he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation
Works, only are the proof that one has Salvation.
Just as the keeping of ALL God's commandments are proof, that a person has Jesus Christ working in their lives.
We don't keep the commandments to be saved....we keep them because we are Saved.
That is exactly what I have been saying
: Corbley Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 17:10:53
: 3AM Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 17:01:05
: Corbley Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 16:46:08
[For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.
he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation
Works, only are the proof that one has Salvation.
Just as the keeping of ALL God's commandments are proof, that a person has Jesus Christ working in their lives.
We don't keep the commandments to be saved....we keep them because we are Saved.
That is exactly what I have been saying
I'm glad we are on the same page, my friend.
Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.
Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ? ::smile::
: 3AM Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 14:35:16
Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.
Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ? ::smile::
Does anyone disagree with that ?
: 3AM Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 16:05:56
: 3AM Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 14:35:16
Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.
Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ? ::smile::
Does anyone disagree with that ?
Only slightly. Probation is to be given another chance to "not fail"...not suggesting that you "do the opposite of fail". Would someone on probation for theft be obligated to give money to people, or simply not to take it from others?
The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.
No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.
Anyone who has been separated from God has had that happen because they didn't live like they were made to live. Essentially, the lived Me-centered rather than Other-centered.
You know you have sinned because there is an objective law by which you can tell you've blown it. But it isn't and has never been the breaking of the law that messed you up. You were messed up first, and then broke the law.
Therefore, no one is a criminal (unless you just want to beat yourself up), and no one is on probation. The sacrifice of Jesus speaks for all people, and our God, being an Other-centered God, can live with our messing up because He loves us. We either seek God (imperfectly) or we don't. We're either in relationship with God or we don't. God, the Son, and the Spirit either abide with us or they don't.
There is no question, no probation, no parole, no command to never break another rule, or consistently have pure thoughts.
We are to grow in the direction of pure thoughts and right behavior, but we need not perfect either of them because Jesus and God already accept us if we open ourselves to them.
: HRoberson Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 18:28:06
The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.
No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.
Too bad Adam & Eve didn't know that.
Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?
Because the Bible has this to say:
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
: 3AM Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 09:50:40
: HRoberson Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 18:28:06
The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.
No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.
Too bad Adam & Eve didn't know that.
Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?
Because the Bible has this to say:
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
::amen::
: 3AM Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 09:50:40
: HRoberson Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 18:28:06
The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.
No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.
Too bad Adam & Eve didn't know that.
Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?
Because the Bible has this to say:
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
I didn't say you couldn't sin.
I said the law was a tool to illustrate that you had.
Jesus said something like "the guy that hates in his heart is guilty of murder."
Why would he say that?
Because, it is our hearts, the way we see others, the way we live - in our beings - that matters; the murder is simply an expression of what is in our hearts. We are not separated from God because of some overt behavior, but because we do not live as He made us to live.
: HRoberson Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:32:19
: 3AM Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 09:50:40
: HRoberson Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 18:28:06
The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.
No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.
Too bad Adam & Eve didn't know that.
Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?
Because the Bible has this to say:
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
I didn't say you couldn't sin.
I said the law was a tool to illustrate that you had.
Jesus said something like "the guy that hates in his heart is guilty of murder."
Why would he say that?
Because, it is our hearts, the way we see others, the way we live - in our beings - that matters; the murder is simply an expression of what is in our hearts.
Good point HR. Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point. It is a heart condition. Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty.
: 3AM Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 16:05:56
: 3AM Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 14:35:16
Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.
Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ? ::smile::
Does anyone disagree with that ?
As someone has said, slightly.
The premise though, that there is "a second chance," is itself a limited concept. The Gospel is not that you have a second chance, but that God wants you to live with Him and is willing to overlook not only your past living for self, but also your future living for self (intermittently) through the sacrifice of Jesus who demonstrated perfect fidelity to God.
Perhaps this is part of my problem.....
....probation also means you're still under judgment.
Which is incorrect from a Christian perspective.
: HRoberson Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 13:15:49
Perhaps this is part of my problem.....
....probation also means you're still under judgment.
Which is incorrect from a Christian perspective.
Judgment hasn't come to us yet, HB, but in a sense we are judged every day. Am I right that you believe in OSAS?
God bless
: Serenity432001 Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:44:34
: HRoberson Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:32:19
: 3AM Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 09:50:40
: HRoberson Fri Feb 13, 2009 - 18:28:06
The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.
No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.
Too bad Adam & Eve didn't know that.
Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?
Because the Bible has this to say:
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
I didn't say you couldn't sin.
I said the law was a tool to illustrate that you had.
Jesus said something like "the guy that hates in his heart is guilty of murder."
Why would he say that?
Because, it is our hearts, the way we see others, the way we live - in our beings - that matters; the murder is simply an expression of what is in our hearts.
Good point HR. Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point. It is a heart condition. Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty.
I wonder who feels that way, Lisa. The ten are the easy part.
: Bonnie Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 17:58:42
: HRoberson Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 13:15:49
Perhaps this is part of my problem.....
....probation also means you're still under judgment.
Which is incorrect from a Christian perspective.
Judgment hasn't come to us yet,
Then the whole idea of probation is erroneous from the get go.
Am I right that you believe in OSAS?
God bless
You would be incorrect.
I have read what has been said, thought about the title of this discussion, and come to the conclusion that it is incorrect. Children that are born into a family cannot be put on probation. Now, what I am trying to understand is what the poster was trying to say.
Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point. It is a heart condition. Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty.
The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) are there to check your progress, as a Christian.
How else would a person know where are in their Christian walk with Christ, if they had no measuring guild ?
Faith, can only be measured by a person's works.
As the Bible says: "By their fruits shall you know them".
: 3AM Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 09:21:09
Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point. It is a heart condition. Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty.
The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) are there to check your progress, as a Christian.
How else would a person know where are in their Christian walk with Christ, if they had no measuring guild ?
Faith, can only be measured by a person's works.
As the Bible says: "By their fruits shall you know them".
Yet for some odd reason.. Christ decided to not reiterate the 10 commandments and summarize them instead.
Curious...
: Tantor Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 09:44:16
Yet for some odd reason.. Christ decided to not reiterate the 10 commandments and summarize them instead.
Curious...
God expects that a Christian will study the OT also, as it also is the word of God.
: 3AM Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 09:57:35
: Tantor Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 09:44:16
Yet for some odd reason.. Christ decided to not reiterate the 10 commandments and summarize them instead.
Curious...
God expects that a Christian will study the OT also, as it also is the word of God.
The Word of God is Jesus.. he supersedes all.
Besides, a non gentile trying to study the OT without the correct background is futile... I was raised reading the bible and had a lot of preconceived ideas that I thought were correct about the Old Testament until I went to college and had a converted Jewish professor that taught the Old Testament.. what I learned is that most of Christendom had absolutely no clue at all what the Old Testament is all about.
I would recommend reading this book before you even pick up the Bible and try and read the Old Testament because it sets the cultural, economic and political stage so well.
http://www.amazon.com/History-Israel-John-Bright/dp/0664220681
: 3AM Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 09:21:09
Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point. It is a heart condition. Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty.
The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) are there to check your progress, as a Christian.
How else would a person know where are in their Christian walk with Christ, if they had no measuring guild ?
Faith, can only be measured by a person's works.
As the Bible says: "By their fruits shall you know them".
After Christ died, the Holy Spirit is our excellent measuring guide. I believe the OT & NT are both relevant for study, but I also believe the following principles:
1. The Law of the OT & NT will judge the non-believer, as they are not covered by the blood
2. The Law of the OT & NT are both relevant as guides to the born-again believer
3. Jesus became the "New Law" when I became a born-again believer. He died for me and now I am under His Law, which does encompass, yet supersedes, the laws of the OT & NT. God is the final Judge, not the Bible.
4. Abiding by the Laws of the OT & NT cannot save men, only Christ can
5. Those who are born-again, will naturally move forward (past) the Laws of Old, towards Jesus their New Law.
Whether or not I can sin a little, sin a lot, or not sin at all...I will strive daily to not sin. If, by striving daily to not sin, I am judged for eternity...I deserve no less...it is only by God's grace that we have a Hope. If I am to be judged for eternity, I will continue to help others in need, as this is the heart of Christ. He deserves All of me.