This is something that has been bothering me and I decided to look up more about it. I found this site which seems to have things with a common them among other sites. There are two points that I will make and I would like for you to say whether you agree with them and why or why not.
Here is the site in case you want to refer to it but I would like responses on the two main points I listed.
http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/unforgivable_sin.htm
The unforgivable sin (according to this site), was meant for the pharisees. When they saw Jesus perform these miracles in person, they knew that it had to be the work of the holy spirit. However. they attributed these miracles to be the work of the devil or because Jesus was demon possessed. This leads me to a couple of the main points that I want to see if you agree with.
1. This website claims that the unforgivable sin cannot be committed today. The reason is because Jesus is not alive for us to see these miracles performed today. Therefore, even if somebody thinks to himself or says to someone else that they think the miracles Jesus performed were the work of the devil or because he was demon possessed, that would not be an unforgivable sin because you did not actually see these miracles performed by Jesus himself in person while he was alive on the earth.
2. It claims that if you are worried that you may have committed the unforgivable sin, you haven't. The reason being is because the worry that you may have committed it is the holy ghost/spirit working in you and you have conviction and your heart isn't completely hardened.
I am not extremely knowledgeable on the Bible and these are just two main points that I found from this site and others and wanted to get your feedback.
It makes sense because it seems like to me if there was an unforgivable sin, it would not be easy to commit. In fact, it seems like it would be near impossible to commit. Which would make sense if you can't commit the sin today and was just meant for the pharisees in particular.
Thank you for you responses.
Jessbuds gave the answer in your other thread, volsfan.
Not believing in Jesus Christ is the unforgivable sin.
If you look at Matthew 16:13-20, you see that Peter makes the confession that Jesus is the Christ.
In verse 17, Jesus tells him that he is blessed, and that flesh and blood has not revealed that fact to him, but the father has revealed it to him.
Now we know that the father did not speak directly to Peter.
It was the HOLY SPIRIT that "spoke" and revealed it to him.
And likewise, see 1Corinthians 12:3.
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Spirit draws people to the truth and the Holy Spirit reveals to them that Jesus is the Christ.
Now when the Holy Spirit reveals to a person (as with the Pharisees) that this Jesus IS the Christ, and that person DENIES it, is there any hope for that person?
The person who denies Jesus Christ,when the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth to them, is, as Jesus is recorded to have said in Mark 3:28, in danger of eternal damnation.
yeah I got a lot of responses from that other post. It still left me with some questions though as I was searching for more in depth info on it. But I'm glad so many people responded to it. This article I found just gives a lot more detail to the unforgivable sin that everyone is afraid of committing instead of just not being saved.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 00:38:02
The unforgivable sin (according to this site), was meant for the pharisees. When they saw Jesus perform these miracles in person, they knew that it had to be the work of the holy spirit. However. they attributed these miracles to be the work of the devil or because Jesus was demon possessed.
The above is correct.
1. This website claims that the unforgivable sin cannot be committed today. The reason is because Jesus is not alive for us to see these miracles performed today. Therefore, even if somebody thinks to himself or says to someone else that they think the miracles Jesus performed were the work of the devil or because he was demon possessed, that would not be an unforgivable sin because you did not actually see these miracles performed by Jesus himself in person while he was alive on the earth.
This I don't know about - but I doubt it's veracity.
2. It claims that if you are worried that you may have committed the unforgivable sin, you haven't. The reason being is because the worry that you may have committed it is the holy ghost/spirit working in you and you have conviction and your heart isn't completely hardened.
This is an interesting concept and I think it has merit.
yeah the thing about it not being able to be committed today is just a lot of peoples stance that it had to be something you did after seeing visual proff in person of his miracles. I the idea of being worried about it is something I have read on many sites in addition to the other point.
The reason it's easy for me to believe these things that I found is because I just can't imagine there being a sin that somebody could commit today that would ban them from entering heaven if they truly changed their ways or were sorry for something. I guess there is no definite way of knowing either way.
They also said that since it says in the Bible what you need to be saved, it doesn't say except for those who have committed the unforgivable sin. Who knows, but I would like to think that there is nothing I could do in this world bad enough to prevent me from getting into heaven if I asked forgiveness.
Not believing in Jesus Christ is the unforgivable sin.
NO IT IS NOT ... this is a false teaching, or a misunderstanding of scripture.
The WORD says that you can Blaspheme or degrade and speak against Jesus and be forgiven... so not believing in him keeps you from salvation, but it IS NOT the same thing as Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.
The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are THREE separate yet joined REAL beings... They speak separately, and as one. They move as one yet do different things. Jesus walked as a real flesh and blood man, and it was the spirit within Him that He sent back to us after He rose up and ascended to Heaven... Jesus HIMSELF is actually physically seated at the right hand of the Father speaking to Him each and every moment of time for us and about us... and the Separated part of Him that is the Holy Spiirit is HERE moving among us, dwelling in us, representing Jesus and the Father for us.
To blaspheme the Holy Spirit and to degrade who He is and what He doe, His purpose and His reality in your life is to commit the unforgiveable sin.
I have also heard two other thoughts on this teaching in the OP...
If you can ask yourself if you have committed this sin, you probably have not. It's a conscience sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit out of your life AFTER salvation.
The second thing is that Nonbelievers cannot commit this sin, for you would have to have Received Jesus as LORD and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in order to reject Him from you.
But, not believing in Jesus yet.... is not the unforgivable sin. That is simply rejecting salvation. You must believe that Jesus is the Messiah to receive Him as Messiah, but that can all be washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, at the MOMENT of salvation when the Holy Spirit does draw someone who does not believe to a place and time where they will believe. That is the purpose of the Holy Spirit... to draw nonbelievers to a state they will believe and to guide them to receive Jesus as LORD.
You have to have KNOWLEDGE of the Holy Spirit to Blaspheme Him. Once you have done that, you will know He left you, and that will be unforgivable on judgment day.
"The Holy Spirit draws people to the truth and the Holy Spirit reveals to them that Jesus is the Christ." This is truth.
"Now when the Holy Spirit reveals to a person (as with the Pharisees) that this Jesus IS the Christ, and that person DENIES it, is there any hope for that person?" YES.. EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY until the day they die and pass into eternity the Holy Spirit will continue to try to draw them. It's not a one shot deal with the LORD OF LORDS.. That is NOT what He died beaten half to death on a cross for.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 19:34:23
Who knows, but I would like to think that there is nothing I could do in this world bad enough to prevent me from getting into heaven if I asked forgiveness.
This is correct, but it perpetuates a misconception.
Our job isn't to "get into Heaven."
Our job is to live the life we've been called to live.
"Heaven" is a result of having the focus of living God-lives on this planet.
: HRoberson Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 20:24:45
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 19:34:23
Who knows, but I would like to think that there is nothing I could do in this world bad enough to prevent me from getting into heaven if I asked forgiveness.
This is correct, but it perpetuates a misconception.
Our job isn't to "get into Heaven."
Our job is to live the life we've been called to live.
"Heaven" is a result of having the focus of living God-lives on this planet.
I disagree... I think that our focus should be that when this "job" is done, we can and will spend eternity with the Savior, the Messiah, Jesus Christ... if that is in Heaven... so be it. My focus is not on this job, it's on the eternity that awaits me when this is over. Be it tomorrow or in 100 years. Eternity with Jesus is the prize and that is what we are "running" for.
well aftert reading these other posts I have no idea what the unforgivable sin is. You claim it isn't unbelief until the day you die but a lot of people say it is.
Also, are you saying degrading the holy spirit is the unforgivable sin. I think that could be unforgivable. To me, an unforgivable sin would have to be something that is impossible to do unless you put so much effort into it that it consumes your life. I done' know what it could be. I've seen two different views now.
well I guess I just can't worry about it. If I commit it I commit it. All I can do is the best I can to improve myself and try to reach where I want to get.
It still makes the most sense to me that it would be rejecting Jesus Christ into your life until the day you die.
here is one more link I found that discusses it in detail. Whether it's right or not is anyones guess. It makes sense though.
http://net-burst.net/guilty/sin.htm
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 21:29:07
well aftert reading these other posts I have no idea what the unforgivable sin is. You claim it isn't unbelief until the day you die but a lot of people say it is.
Also, are you saying degrading the holy spirit is the unforgivable sin. I think that could be unforgivable. To me, an unforgivable sin would have to be something that is impossible to do unless you put so much effort into it that it consumes your life. I done' know what it could be. I've seen two different views now.
We become believers when we get saved. Before that, we did not believe or we would not have been walking in sin... any sin. But, once we did believe, we received salvation. If not believing in Jesus for salvation or as your Savior was unforgivable... we would all go to hell. Because none of us were believers until we believed. But, when we believed and received Him, He gave us salvation and granted us forgiveness of sin... All sin. And then imparted His Holy Spirit to us to dwell in us. Before that, we had no knowledge of the workings of the Holy Spirit and didn't even know Him, or how He works or what He does in us. Of course we rejected that, we did not believe we needed salvation. That is what a nonbeliever is... we were all nonbelievers at one time... until we believed.
BUT... The Holy Spirit, God Himself in Spirit came to live in us, His holiness dwells in us, and that is the only way to blaspheme. For the Holy Spirit to be there when you do it, and then, He departs and is not there. He was not there present in your life, dwelling in your heart before you believed, the BIBLE is clear that He comes in at Salvation, before that... He called you, beckoned to you. But, He was not in you.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 21:44:57
It still makes the most sense to me that it would be rejecting Jesus Christ into your life until the day you die.
Except that Jesus made it clear that you could be forgiven of blasphemy towards God and even Him... Jesus, but not the Holy Spirit. HE separated the three beings for this one point.
So.. If rejection of Jesus was the unforgivable sin... He would not have needed to include or clarify that it was the sin of insulting the Holy Spirit. Yes, rejecting Jesus will damn you, if you do it till eternity. But, you can actually receive Jesus as LORD and still commit the unforgivable sin if you decide to sin that far.
Well it is kind of confusing. The theory that I agree with is that the unforgivable sin is not being saved when you die. That doesn't mean that if you do not believe or are not saved when you are alive that you can't be. It's just saying that if you die and aren't saved that is the unforgivable sin because of the finality of it.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:41:38
Well it is kind of confusing. The theory that I agree with is that the unforgivable sin is not being saved when you die. That doesn't mean that if you do not believe or are not saved when you are alive that you can't be. It's just saying that if you die and aren't saved that is the unforgivable sin because of the finality of it.
In the context of the original passage, the above is incorrect.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 22:18:31
here is one more link I found that discusses it in detail. Whether it's right or not is anyones guess. It makes sense though.
http://net-burst.net/guilty/sin.htm
Well this discourse on the sin, agrees with what I posted to you. It is not the blasphemy of rejecting Jesus that is unforgivable, it is the blasphemy of insulting His Holy Spirit. The are two different things. Two different sins, one can be forgiven, and one cannot.
but I think the thing that no one knows if what you really have to do. Saying it's blasphemy against the holy spirit still doesn't answer anything because that's not being specific. Like I said, it's something that most people can't do in their life or would be really hard to do.
Unless you also believe the theory that it could only be committed while Jesus was here on earth in physical form.
but what does insulting the holy spirit mean you have to do. It's actually something you can't be forgiven for. Is it meant in literal terms. Like I've already said, I don't understand what you could possibly say or do that could warrant unforgiveness whil you are alive. Unless you aren't willing to repent. I'm under the assumption that you are saying there is an unforgivable sin you can commit that would still be unforgivable no matter what you did to try and change that.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:44:20
Saying it's blasphemy against the holy spirit still doesn't answer anything because that's not being specific.
Start with the original text, and argue from there.
it also says in that article that Paul said that they could be forgiven if they were willing to repent of their beliefs.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:49:06
it also says in that article that Paul said that they could be forgiven if they were willing to repent of their beliefs.
Don't read the article.
Start with the original passage. The context is rather clear.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:44:20
but I think the thing that no one knows if what you really have to do. Saying it's blasphemy against the holy spirit still doesn't answer anything because that's not being specific. Like I said, it's something that most people can't do in their life or would be really hard to do.
Unless you also believe the theory that it could only be committed while Jesus was here on earth in physical form.
That is not possible, because until Jesus died and rose again and ascended to the Father... the Holy Spirit was not separate, and we know that they are separate when Jesus says that they are three separate sins and only one is unforgivable.
While Jesus was here on earth, you could reject him and speak against him and still be forgiven... Paul would be a good example of that. And actually you could do both while he lived and both after he ascended.
And if rejecting Jesus was the same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which did not come to us until he ascended... tell my WHY Jesus spoke to them as separate actions clearly.
hroberson, sorry are you referring to my original post or something else?
Is it meant in literal terms.
BINGO.
well I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't know what blasphemy against the holy spirit means. It's very difficult to convey on a screen and understand it because it's such a confusing subject. I hope I have not committed this sin though and if I have I guess that's that huh?
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:54:33
hroberson, sorry are you referring to my original post or something else?
The original passage in Scripture from whence comes the term "unforgivable sin."
"All sin may be forgiven Man, except......"
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:47:02
but what does insulting the holy spirit mean you have to do. It's actually something you can't be forgiven for. Is it meant in literal terms. Like I've already said, I don't understand what you could possibly say or do that could warrant unforgiveness whil you are alive. Unless you aren't willing to repent. I'm under the assumption that you are saying there is an unforgivable sin you can commit that would still be unforgivable no matter what you did to try and change that.
I believe this is why some teach that if you ask if you have done it, you probably haven't. I'm sure there will be those who will and won't care right to judgment.
I personally rely on Hebrews 10:26... we have to grow into reading deeper word.
If someone receives salvation, and they do get mad enough to shake their fist in the face of God, and out right reject him, and insulting and berating the Holy Spirit, telling Him to leave and that they don't want him. That is just what they will get. Who do we think we are that we can take the precious salvation He died to provide for us and throw it back as it is a rag? Step one step past that warning to insult His Spirit, is EXACTLY what blasphemy is.
He said plainly, you can reject and insult me, and my Father God, but you cannot do that to my Spirit. It's so clear a 3rd grader can understand it. For that is the reading level the Bible is written on.
: HRoberson Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:58:56
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:54:33
hroberson, sorry are you referring to my original post or something else?
The original passage in Scripture from whence comes the term "unforgivable sin."
"All sin may be forgiven Man, except......"
I thought that was what you intended, but did not want to speak for you.
I understand that, I just don't know if I've ever done it. I don't even know for sure if I'm saved right now in my life.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:03:06
I understand that, I just don't know if I've ever done it. I don't even know for sure if I'm saved right now in my life.
What do you understand?
What is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" according to the original passage?
according to what you and the other poster said, it's rejecting the spirit of God after you have been saved.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:05:41
according to what you and the other poster said, it's rejecting the spirit of God after you have been saved.
Not in the original passage it isn't.
I don't need to just give up trying if I'm worried about it but I don't know how much further I can go if I have committed something unforgivable.
That's what i don't know. Reading blasphemy of the holy spirit doesn't mean much to me because it doesn't get into specifics. Which is why so many people have questioned what it is specifically referring to.
: volsfan1 Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 23:57:06
well I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't know what blasphemy against the holy spirit means. It's very difficult to convey on a screen and understand it because it's such a confusing subject. I hope I have not committed this sin though and if I have I guess that's that huh?
I am not going to speak to your eternity at all... I'm not God and I am not the Holy Spirit. I only know what the word says. It's not my judgment that is written in eternity... it is His. But, you asked what that sin was, and I believe I have explained it rightly for you.
I do believe as we look more towards the end times, we will see nonbeliever and believers commit that sin. I believe the church shies away from speaking to this sin, because it is so frightening to think of. As it should be. But, as the days grow on, we are going to be called witness it happen, and to speak to it.
Do I think you did it? Not really, because I don't think you really meant it. I believe that when it happens, those who do it will mean it. And they won't repent. The rest, I leave up to a loving God. Peace.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:08:08
That's what i don't know. Reading blasphemy of the holy spirit doesn't mean much to me because it doesn't get into specifics. Which is why so many people have questioned what it is specifically referring to.
I'll help......read the following and then tell me what Jesus is talking about:
Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a demon, blind and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the dumb man spake and saw.
Mat 12:23 And all the multitudes were amazed, and said, Can this be the son of David?
Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This man doth not cast out demons, but by Beelzebub the prince of the demons.
Mat 12:25 And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Mat 12:29 Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Mat 12:31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by its fruit.
Mat 12:34 Ye offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 The good man out of his good treasure bringeth forth good things: and the evil man out of his evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
thank you both for you posts. I do not believe either that if I had committed it I would be worried about it. All I can do is what I can do.
it makes it sound as if he is saying speaking out publicly as a witness.
here is what I struggle with. I found this in another article.
[Suppose it were taught in Christian circles that thinking of blue giraffes is an unforgivable sin. 'Think once of a blue giraffe and you're eternally dammed.' Every Christian exposed to this teaching would end up thinking of a blue giraffe, since it is a fact of life that the harder anyone tries not to think of something, the more that person will think of it. This is not sinfulness; it is simply how the human mind works.
Do you suppose our Maker doesn't know this? Do you think he's set everyone up to be eternally dammed? That's what you would have to think if you suppose that God treats as unforgivable unwanted thoughts buzzing around in our minds.]
Once I get to thinking about it it's a compulsive thing for me to do.
Let's review....
1. People bring some bubba that's been healed
2. The Jewish religious leaders say that the healing was done by the power of the Devil
3. Jesus says, essentially, if you don't want to believe that I've done this, cool; but if you are going to assign the merciful and powerful work of the Spirit to the Devil, you will not be forgiven.
"Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit," in this context isn't doubt, it isn't dying without belief, it is ascribing the work of the Spirit to the Devil.
That's it; there's nothing more to it.
It is a different question to ask, "can we do this today?" or even, "is this sin, despite what Jesus says, actually unforgivable?" or "in what contexts might it be forgivable?"
But none of those change what the sin is.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:17:53
here is what I struggle with. I found this in another article.
[Suppose it were taught in Christian circles that thinking of blue giraffes is an unforgivable sin. 'Think once of a blue giraffe and you're eternally dammed.' Every Christian exposed to this teaching would end up thinking of a blue giraffe, since it is a fact of life that the harder anyone tries not to think of something, the more that person will think of it. This is not sinfulness; it is simply how the human mind works.
Do you suppose our Maker doesn't know this? Do you think he's set everyone up to be eternally dammed? That's what you would have to think if you suppose that God treats as unforgivable unwanted thoughts buzzing around in our minds.]
Once I get to thinking about it it's a compulsive thing for me to do.
You do not need articles to answer your question. You simply need to review the original passage.
makes sense hroberson. That post about the blue giraffes sums up how I think when I get to thinking about the unforgivable sin. It's a terrifying thing especially to not know if you have committed it and are already hopeless no matter what. I'm just a compulsive thinker.
I don't think personally if I had committed it though I would be this worried about it. Thank you for your posts.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:17:53
here is what I struggle with. I found this in another article.
Suppose it were taught in Christian circles that thinking of blue giraffes is an unforgivable sin. 'Think once of a blue giraffe and you're eternally dammed.' Every Christian exposed to this teaching would end up thinking of a blue giraffe, since it is a fact of life that the harder anyone tries not to think of something, the more that person will think of it. This is not sinfulness; it is simply how the human mind works.
Once I get to thinking about it it's a compulsive thing for me to do.
You hit the nail on the head as to why the body of Christ does not speak to it. It scares the saints to even think about it. Which is a good thing... the WORD says to "FLEE" (run away as fast as you can) from evil. But, God grants peace with His Holy Spirit when we seek him. And sends us comfort in times of stress.
I'd say... satan would love for you to Believe you committed this sin. He'd love to keep you on a track to Hell or to see you give up. He's the liar. He's the enemy of your soul, of your peace of all that is good in your life. If he can beat you down and take everything from you in life and then kill you.. He will. You need to stop worrying about THIS sin and start to get into the VICTORY teachings of defeating the enemy... Put your foot on his neck, and PUSH.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:23:03
makes sense hroberson. That post about the blue giraffes sums up how I think when I get to thinking about the unforgivable sin. It's a terrifying thing especially to not know if you have committed it and are already hopeless no matter what. I'm just a compulsive thinker.
I don't think personally if I had committed it though I would be this worried about it. Thank you for your posts.
OK, here's another wrinkle: It's forgivable.
kensington and hroberson thank you. When you start thinking about it and how easy it could be to commit I suppose if you said something in a moment of anger, it makes you want to give up. But I guess the best thing to do is do what you can and try your best to straighten things out.
hroberson don't mess with me. lol. don't confuse me here. Don't say something is forgivable just to try and make me feel bettter.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:26:36
kensington and hroberson thank you. When you start thinking about it and how easy it could be to commit I suppose if you said something in a moment of anger, it makes you want to give up. But I guess the best thing to do is do what you can and try your best to straighten things out.
I don't believe that you can do it on accident.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:27:27
hroberson don't mess with me. lol. don't confuse me here. Don't say something is forgivable just to try and make me feel bettter.
Maybe he means what you did is forgivable. True blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. If it was... Jesus would be a liar. And we know that is not possible. Or at least I do.
I agree that if you committed it like has been said on many things that I've read, you would not be worried or think you would need to ask for forgiveness. It would have to be someone with such a hardened heart that they feel no remorse of worry about it.
I probably just need to not give up and get closer with God.
a view that I agree with
http://www.religioustolerance.org/unfsin2.htm
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:37:45
I probably just need to not give up and get closer with God.
Yep.. and that is called WARFARE... don't sit back and let satan rob you of your walk. Draw as close to God as you can. Read the word, spend time daily in worship.. get right down on your knees in your living room with him. Listen to worship music or songs... And let that be what is in your thinking... clean your house (spiritually) and then put things of the spirit in yourself so that it stays clean.
It's not always easy, but it's always worth the effort. Even if you grow slowly... that is still growing. Try..
Matthew 12:30, 31
He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
What does it mean to "gather" with Jesus Christ.
Of course it means that you testify to him and make new disciples, new believers.
This IS the unmistakable mark of a believer -- see Acts 1:8.
You WILL be witnesses unto me ...
If, in your lifetime, you are not a witness to Christ, you are not a believer.
If you are not a believer, you have not believed and received Jesus Christ.
Now if the Holy Spirit has CALLED and CONVICTED you that Jesus is the Christ, and you deny it, you are, as Jesus said in Mark 3:28, in danger of eternal damnation.
In the case of the Pharisees, they denied what the Holy Spirit was telling them and showing them.
Christ knew they would never accept him, accept the truth.
Hence, no forgiveness for them.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:03:06
I don't even know for sure if I'm saved right now in my life.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him
should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
love,
sopranette
yeah it comes down to whether one believes you can do something in your lifetime and not be forgiven or whether it's something you have to do over the course of your whole lifetime (never receiving Jesus Christ). Even if it was out of a moment of anger I would think there is forgiveness. That comes back to the thing about if you did it and didn't mean it you would become worried about whether you had committed it or not.
here is a good discussion on it. It's a catholic forum but has good points
http://forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=44976&sid=36df386761ca1c50d870097474ece816&p=603698
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 00:27:27
hroberson don't mess with me. lol. don't confuse me here. Don't say something is forgivable just to try and make me feel bettter.
I'm not messing.
I'm trying to answer your entire conundrum one point at a time, so that you can step through it.
In order to do that, we need to take the answer one step at a time. That's why I want you to read, and stay with, the original passage only, until it's time to move on.
The answer to your question is quite simple, and does not require the reading of various articles, from various view points. All that is going to do is confuse you.
hroberson if you would just e-mail me your opinion on it that would be appreciated. It would save time. Do you have hotmail? The whole discussion has made me more confused. I sort of agree with people who say you can stilll be forgiven if you are willing to repent.
: volsfan1 Thu Feb 26, 2009 - 17:47:39
hroberson if you would just e-mail me your opinion on it that would be appreciated. It would save time. Do you have hotmail? The whole discussion has made me more confused. I sort of agree with people who say you can stilll be forgiven if you are willing to repent.
You have a PM.
Bottom line: the sin is specific, and the statement is aimed at specific people.
You likely have not committed the sin, and aren't the sort of person to whom the original statement was made.
Let it go.
thank you hroberson
Well, you're welcome.