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why a title like this?

are you sure your calling and election is sure?

lets read a verse that happened on judgement day

are you sure your calling and election is sure?

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

why am I suppose to be diligent to make my calling and election sure?

what happened to these people concerning the calling and election?

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Lord said not everyone who confess his name Lord Lord(Jesus) will enter into the kingdom?

yet we have doctrines that teach all we have to do is call o his name and we shall be saved.

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

these people thought for sure they were doing God's will.

these people had to wait until judgement day to find out that they were wrong and there calling was not sure.

is your salvation sure?
are you sure you are saved?
are you sure you are born again?
who called you to God?

before anyone of us can answer this we should read what Paul has to say first.

Romans 10

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


we have to hear God's words first before we know or assume that we are

is your salvation sure?
are you sure you are saved?
are you sure you are born again?


are you really sure that you fit all these criteria that the denominations teach?

did the People in Matthew 7 hear the truth?

were they saved?
did they get salvation?
where they born again?
who called them?

Mattew 7 is a warning to us today

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

these people thought they would be saved
these people thought they would obtain salvation
these people thought they would be born again
these people called upon the Lord's name
these people found out there reward on JUDGEMENT DAY.

understand what happened on this day to these people

are you sure you are born again?

Peter said

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus said

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

when do this man know that he is born from a corruptible seed to a incorruptible seed?

Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.

on judgement day the people in Matthew 7 did not get the Lord's salvation

listen to the Lord's rejection of these people

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Jesu said

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

the people below was judged on judgement day, is this the end?


Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

: howard  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 08:10:41

are you sure your calling and election is sure?

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

why am I suppose to be diligent to make my calling and election sure?

what happened to these people concerning the calling and election?

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Lord said not everyone who confess his name Lord Lord(Jesus) will enter into the kingdom?

yet we have doctrines that teach all we have to do is call o his name and we shall be saved.

Howard---

Unfortuantely you are combining two groups of verses that do not belong together.  When Peter says "Brethren---make your calling and election sure" he is speaking to saved Christians.  He is telling them to stand firm in their salvation and not stray away.  2 Peter 1:10 is directed to saved people.

Matthew 7:21,22 is directed at people who were never saved.  We know this because Jesus says "I NEVER KNEW YOU" yet the Bible says that God "KNOWS THOSE THAT ARE HIS".  Since He NEVER knew them, they are not Christians.

Dear brother Howard,
fish153 is right, Jesus was speaking to people who, even though they may have believed they were doing what He would have wanted them to do, were not 'KNOWN' by Him. Jesus knows us not by what we do for Him, but by our faithful recognition and acknowledgement of Him. This leads, many times, to a commitment to 'serve' Him and in that service we may do those things described in Matthew 7:22. Without all this we are merely trying to 'buy' our way into heaven. Something, that in God's eyes, we are not worthy of.
May you never have doubts about your relationship with Jesus.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer). 

We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

We have the assurance NOW of salvation! What a terrible and stressful existence without the assurance that Jesus gives!

Luke 19:9
Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For God says,"At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you.

: fish153  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 14:49:02


.......God "KNOWS THOSE THAT ARE HIS".  Since He NEVER knew them, they are not Christians.

.......GOD knowing who they are is one thing - themselves NOT KNOWING they are not true Christians is quite another !
And such is the dilemma some people (sadly the many) are in even today.
Scripture says satan deceives the whole world therefore we are all deceived UNTIL we are called and taken out of this deceived world.
From Howard's quotes can be seen that 'the many are still deceived even while thinking/believing they are not.
How can we be SURE of our calling and election ? THERE IS A WAY !!!

: Sinead  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:54:36
We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

Good post Sinead !!!
To be finally 'saved is always a future event and things can go wrong in the meantime.....similar to a 'pregnancy. When we are conceived/begotten we are not then 'born. A period of 'development must take place which some 'Christians totally disregard believing themselves to be already born again.
However....there are ways and means to make our calling and election sure....but it can not be rushed or taken for granted...as 'many do.

: Lively Stone  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 01:35:11
We have the assurance NOW of salvation! What a terrible and stressful existence without the assurance that Jesus gives!

Luke 19:9
Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For God says,"At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you.

: Beta  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 03:11:45

: Sinead  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:54:36
We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

Good post Sinead !!!
To be finally 'saved is always a future event and things can go wrong in the meantime.....similar to a 'pregnancy. When we are conceived/begotten we are not then 'born. A period of 'development must take place which some 'Christians totally disregard believing themselves to be already born again.
However....there are ways and means to make our calling and election sure....but it can not be rushed or taken for granted...as 'many do.

Beta/Sinead----

Think about something if you will.  The Bible mentions in many places about "the joy of salvation".  Let me ask a question:  How can you possibly rejoice in something you are never sure you have?  If you don't believe you will know until the end how can you possibly "rejoice in salvation"?

When a person is SAVED from drowning they are thankful and they rejoice.  The salvation is ACCOMPLISHED--they are safe. In fact, they jump up and down with joy that they are still alive, and embrace with great joy the ones that saved them.    

But if they were still in the water, flailing and hoping someone comes to retrieve them from the water can they rejoice?  If they are only hoping that sometime in the future someone might save them from their plight are they filled with joy and thankfulness?  Of course not. The "might be" limits all joy.

I just posted this verse in another thread---but here it is again:

"These things I write onto you that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life" (1 John 5:13)

Now---that's something to jump up and down about!!  That is something to rejoice in!  We can KNOW that we HAVE eternal life NOW!!  Was John the Apostle being presumptuous for stating such a thing?  No---he was stating a fact, and WANTED Christians to rejoice in THEIR SALVATION.

Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit. We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

: INJ  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 15:00:34
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit. We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

And how do we know we have the Spirit of God ?
Acts 5v32, Heb.5v9 explain : when we are obedient to God.

And how do we show our love to God ?
1Joh.5v3 this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments...
1Jon.2v4 he that says 'I know him and keeps not his Commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Both points you raised have scriptural answers that make clear what God wants .
Anyone doing the Will of God is not condemned. Simple !

: fish153  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 14:48:40

Beta/Sinead----

Think about something if you will.  The Bible mentions in many places about "the joy of salvation".  Let me ask a question:  How can you possibly rejoice in something you are never sure you have?  If you don't believe you will know until the end how can you possibly "rejoice in salvation"?

When a person is SAVED from drowning they are thankful and they rejoice.  The salvation is ACCOMPLISHED--they are safe. In fact, they jump up and down with joy that they are still alive, and embrace with great joy the ones that saved them.    

But if they were still in the water, flailing and hoping someone comes to retrieve them from the water can they rejoice?  If they are only hoping that sometime in the future someone might save them from their plight are they filled with joy and thankfulness?  Of course not. The "might be" limits all joy.

I just posted this verse in another thread---but here it is again:

"These things I write onto you that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life" (1 John 5:13)

Now---that's something to jump up and down about!!  That is something to rejoice in!  We can KNOW that we HAVE eternal life NOW!!  Was John the Apostle being presumptuous for stating such a thing?  No---he was stating a fact, and WANTED Christians to rejoice in THEIR SALVATION.

Yes fish I know what scripture says re eternal life...but do the majority of christians KNOW ? Apparently MANY do NOT...... or they would not find themselves in Mat.7v21-23.
Just reading scripture and applying it to yourself is not the right way to go about getting saved....MANY think it is and will be bitterly disappointed.
While we are still in the flesh we are struggling in the water....not without hope (as you make out) but not fully saved either. Christ is already saving us if we follow/obey his instructions to the end.

: fish153  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 14:49:02

: howard  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 08:10:41

are you sure your calling and election is sure?

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

why am I suppose to be diligent to make my calling and election sure?

what happened to these people concerning the calling and election?

Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Lord said not everyone who confess his name Lord Lord(Jesus) will enter into the kingdom?

yet we have doctrines that teach all we have to do is call o his name and we shall be saved.

Howard---

Unfortuantely you are combining two groups of verses that do not belong together.  When Peter says "Brethren---make your calling and election sure" he is speaking to saved Christians.  He is telling them to stand firm in their salvation and not stray away.  2 Peter 1:10 is directed to saved people.

Matthew 7:21,22 is directed at people who were never saved.  We know this because Jesus says "I NEVER KNEW YOU" yet the Bible says that God "KNOWS THOSE THAT ARE HIS".  Since He NEVER knew them, they are not Christians.

Fish

these people in Matthew 7 are people of yesterday, today and in the future, these people had to wait until JUDGEMENTS day to find out that they did not make it into God's kingdom.

from the time they first accepted Jesus, because in there mind they thought they was doing it right, until that time of death and Judgement day they read Peter and thought they were included in with the brethren or a christian.

unfortunately

they had to find out on judgement day that they are not the brethren or christian

the verses go together up until judgement day.  

this is when the verse separate.

did they make there calling and election sure

they thought they did.

: thefixer  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:32:54
Dear brother Howard,
fish153 is right, Jesus was speaking to people who, even though they may have believed they were doing what He would have wanted them to do, were not 'KNOWN' by Him. Jesus knows us not by what we do for Him, but by our faithful recognition and acknowledgement of Him. This leads, many times, to a commitment to 'serve' Him and in that service we may do those things described in Matthew 7:22. Without all this we are merely trying to 'buy' our way into heaven. Something, that in God's eyes, we are not worthy of.
May you never have doubts about your relationship with Jesus.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer). 

I dont have doubts brother, what I have is questions

I have to question you comment and here is why

lets read some more of Jesus reply to these people and us

  21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

its obvious these people did not do the will of Jesus
its clear that they did the will of someone else who they thought was the will of Jesus

this verse goes against your post

Jesus has something he wants us to do and it is his will that we do it.

: Sinead  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:54:36
We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

it is refreshing to hear someone actaully confess and believe what is written in God's words


Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

people are not hearing the saying of Jesus

they are not hearing these words

Matthe 24

  13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

: Lively Stone  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 01:35:11
We have the assurance NOW of salvation! What a terrible and stressful existence without the assurance that Jesus gives!

Luke 19:9
Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For God says,"At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you.

: Beta  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 03:11:45

: Sinead  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:54:36
We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

Good post Sinead !!!
To be finally 'saved is always a future event and things can go wrong in the meantime.....similar to a 'pregnancy. When we are conceived/begotten we are not then 'born. A period of 'development must take place which some 'Christians totally disregard believing themselves to be already born again.
However....there are ways and means to make our calling and election sure....but it can not be rushed or taken for granted...as 'many do.

amen

this one verse we all need to put it into our daily lives

listen ot what Solomon says here

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

: fish153  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 14:48:40

: Beta  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 03:11:45

: Sinead  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:54:36
We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

Good post Sinead !!!
To be finally 'saved is always a future event and things can go wrong in the meantime.....similar to a 'pregnancy. When we are conceived/begotten we are not then 'born. A period of 'development must take place which some 'Christians totally disregard believing themselves to be already born again.
However....there are ways and means to make our calling and election sure....but it can not be rushed or taken for granted...as 'many do.

Beta/Sinead----

Think about something if you will.  The Bible mentions in many places about "the joy of salvation".  Let me ask a question:  How can you possibly rejoice in something you are never sure you have?  If you don't believe you will know until the end how can you possibly "rejoice in salvation"?

When a person is SAVED from drowning they are thankful and they rejoice.  The salvation is ACCOMPLISHED--they are safe. In fact, they jump up and down with joy that they are still alive, and embrace with great joy the ones that saved them.   

But if they were still in the water, flailing and hoping someone comes to retrieve them from the water can they rejoice?  If they are only hoping that sometime in the future someone might save them from their plight are they filled with joy and thankfulness?  Of course not. The "might be" limits all joy.

I just posted this verse in another thread---but here it is again:

"These things I write onto you that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life" (1 John 5:13)

Now---that's something to jump up and down about!!  That is something to rejoice in!  We can KNOW that we HAVE eternal life NOW!!  Was John the Apostle being presumptuous for stating such a thing?  No---he was stating a fact, and WANTED Christians to rejoice in THEIR SALVATION.

how do you know?

how do you know when you have verse of warning from Jesus the prophets and Apostles

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

How do you know unless God has told you already?

Peter said make your election sure and he said this

Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

and Paul said this

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


Paul said work out your own salvation

we know Jesus is our salvation yet Paul lets us know that we have a hand in our salvation also

are you sure you are working on your own salvation until the Saviour comes?

Paul said;

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Romans 6:17 (KJV)

Wonder what he was talking about??

: howard  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 09:26:34

: Lively Stone  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 01:35:11
We have the assurance NOW of salvation! What a terrible and stressful existence without the assurance that Jesus gives!

Luke 19:9
Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For God says,"At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you.

: Lively Stone  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 10:59:27

: howard  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 09:26:34

: Lively Stone  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 01:35:11
We have the assurance NOW of salvation! What a terrible and stressful existence without the assurance that Jesus gives!

Luke 19:9
Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For God says,"At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you.

: howard  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 08:05:30

responding to the topic, i'm not serving Jesus, bcause Jesus NEVER taught ANYONE to serve him. Jesus said he teach what his Father wants him to,(John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you).

also to serve one is to do their will,Jesus even said it's NOT his will he's doing ,(John 5:30 -I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me).

so all that Jesus taught was what his Father wanted him to teach. which mean WE... are to serve ONLY his Father, Jesus said so! (Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven).  and 

(Matt.12:50-For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).

Jesus showed only those acknowledging his Father,were sent to Jesus.
(John 6:44,45- No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me).

Jesus words shows...we must know  AND learn about his Father. though many are teaching falsely to serve Jesus. those who say they serve him, really is ignoring his words. i believe Jesus, and HIS teachings, instead of what any "church" leader wants me to believe. any who says i'm wrong for NOT serving Jesus. needs to take it to him, because he told us who to serve...his Father. peace

: jojo50  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 15:32:39

: howard  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 08:05:30

responding to the topic, i'm not serving Jesus, bcause Jesus NEVER taught ANYONE to serve him. Jesus said he teach what his Father wants him to,(John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you).

also to serve one is to do their will,Jesus even said it's NOT his will he's doing ,(John 5:30 -I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me).

so all that Jesus taught was what his Father wanted him to teach. which mean WE... are to serve ONLY his Father, Jesus said so! (Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven).  and 

(Matt.12:50-For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).

Jesus showed only those acknowledging his Father,were sent to Jesus.
(John 6:44,45- No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me).

Jesus words shows...we must know  AND learn about his Father. though many are teaching falsely to serve Jesus. those who say they serve him, really is ignoring his words. i believe Jesus, and HIS teachings, instead of what any "church" leader wants me to believe. any who says i'm wrong for NOT serving Jesus. needs to take it to him, because he told us who to serve...his Father. peace

Jesus was the servant of all and said if anyone wants to be greatest in the kingdom we need to learn to serve. Serving is an act of love in the Kingdom of God rather than a demand. Whatever we do to our brethren we have done to Jesus.

: yogi bear  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 09:43:08
Paul said;

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Romans 6:17 (KJV)

Wonder what he was talking about??

what is he saying?

lets read a little more to find out

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.



sounds like this mortal man has a choice and struggles between sin and righteousness

it don't sound as thougth Paul is letting us know that we are saved.

when are we made free from sin?

when Jesus returns and gives us our immortal body

: Lively Stone  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 10:59:27

: howard  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 09:26:34

: Lively Stone  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 01:35:11
We have the assurance NOW of salvation! What a terrible and stressful existence without the assurance that Jesus gives!

Luke 19:9
Jesus responded, “Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a true son of Abraham.

2 Corinthians 6:2
For God says,“At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you.” Indeed, the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.

Colossians 1:27
For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: Christ lives in you. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us all come forward and draw near with true (honest and sincere) hearts in unqualified assurance and absolute conviction engendered by faith (by that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness), having our hearts sprinkled and purified from a guilty (evil) conscience and our bodies cleansed with pure water.

1 John 3:21
And, beloved, if our consciences (our hearts) do not accuse us [if they do not make us feel guilty and condemn us], we have confidence (complete assurance and boldness) before God,

Jesus is salvation to come, he is our salvation.

when does he come?

so do we have it now or do we wait for salvation to come?

the righteous man is a christian(in Jesus) yet he turneth from his righteousness(in Jesus)
what happened to his salvation now that he did not turn back to righteousness or endured unto the end?


Ezekiel 18

25Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and death in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

The scriptures say we have salvation NOW.

who has salvation now?

the one who endure in Jesus until the end  ot the one who was never in Jesus or who was in and cluld not run the race to the end and fell away?

who has salvation now?

and how do you know?

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible? 

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

HOW?

to many holes inyour post.

Read the bible, believe the bible, and be baptized. 

: Beta  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 08:05:11

: INJ  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 15:00:34
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit. We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

And how do we know we have the Spirit of God ?
Acts 5v32, Heb.5v9 explain : when we are obedient to God.

And how do we show our love to God ?
1Joh.5v3 this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments...
1Jon.2v4 he that says 'I know him and keeps not his Commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Both points you raised have scriptural answers that make clear what God wants .
Anyone doing the Will of God is not condemned. Simple !

very very simple

and she told me how to do it.

: Memphis Dwight  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:17:08
Read the bible, believe the bible, and be baptized. 

MD

is it this simple, look at all the denominations we have and Paul said this

Romans 10



8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


who believes the report?
where is the preacher
faith comes by hearing the word of God.

XMAS is fast approaching most people know Xmas has nothing to do with Jesus but they attach his name to it.

who believes the report?

they can't read Jesus was born on December 25
yet they associate His name with it.


can't read it in the bible
they beleive it even though its not in the bible

would they get baptize in the name of Jesus who is associated with Xmas?

   

Romans 10

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?


Jeremiah 10
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.



2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

: jojo50  Wed Oct 26, 2011 - 15:32:39

: howard  Mon Oct 24, 2011 - 08:05:30

responding to the topic, i'm not serving Jesus, bcause Jesus NEVER taught ANYONE to serve him. Jesus said he teach what his Father wants him to,(John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you).

also to serve one is to do their will,Jesus even said it's NOT his will he's doing ,(John 5:30 -I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me).

so all that Jesus taught was what his Father wanted him to teach. which mean WE... are to serve ONLY his Father, Jesus said so! (Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven).  and 

(Matt.12:50-For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother).

Jesus showed only those acknowledging his Father,were sent to Jesus.
(John 6:44,45- No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me).

Jesus words shows...we must know  AND learn about his Father. though many are teaching falsely to serve Jesus. those who say they serve him, really is ignoring his words. i believe Jesus, and HIS teachings, instead of what any "church" leader wants me to believe. any who says i'm wrong for NOT serving Jesus. needs to take it to him, because he told us who to serve...his Father. peace

Jesus said this in the flesh

John 12:26
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.


Jesus said this before he came in the flesh


Genesis 26:24
And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.


Numbers 12:7
My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.


2 Samuel 7:5
Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in?


keep in mind


1.Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:16:19

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

What are you talking about? You the post asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Jn 2:27

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

1 Jn 2:20

If we have the Holy Spirit he himself will lead us into truth. This is in conjunction with the word of God. We know that we know.

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible?  
[/quote]

God's character is seen in the whole of the bible. It is seen in his interactions with creation. The creation testifies of him. It is seen in his covenants. It is seen in his name and word...


Do you want to know more about God? These 20 Bible facts about God will give you insight into the nature and character of God.

God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is sovereign.
(2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 46:9-11)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
God is righteous and just.
(Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 11:7; Psalm 119:137)
God is faithful.
(Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 89:1-8)
God is true and truth.
(Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2)
God is good.
(Psalm 25:8; Psalm 34:8; Mark 10:18)
God is merciful.
(Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 103:8-17; Daniel 9:9; Hebrews 2:17)
God is gracious.
(Exodus 34:6; Psalm 103:8; 1 Peter 5:10)
God is love.
(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:8)
God is spirit.
(John 4:24)
God is light.
(James 1:17; 1 John 1:5)
God is triune or trinity.
(Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Simply if you see Jesus or know him you will see or know the heavenly father (God)

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

Simply do to others that you would want done to yourself. Which is the Royal Law of love in sceptre. Laying down your life for others, as Jesus did. Our proof is in action.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

2And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

HOW?

Learning through the word of God through studying and instruction of the Spirit of God.

to many holes inyour post.

Too many superior attitudes in yours my friend.  ::announcment::

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 10:17:16

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:16:19

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

What are you talking about? You the post asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Jn 2:27

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

1 Jn 2:20

If we have the Holy Spirit he himself will lead us into truth. This is in conjunction with the word of God. We know that we know.

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible? 

God's character is seen in the whole of the bible. It is seen in his interactions with creation. The creation testifies of him. It is seen in his covenants. It is seen in his name and word...


Do you want to know more about God? These 20 Bible facts about God will give you insight into the nature and character of God.

God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is sovereign.
(2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 46:9-11)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
God is righteous and just.
(Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 11:7; Psalm 119:137)
God is faithful.
(Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 89:1-8)
God is true and truth.
(Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2)
God is good.
(Psalm 25:8; Psalm 34:8; Mark 10:18)
God is merciful.
(Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 103:8-17; Daniel 9:9; Hebrews 2:17)
God is gracious.
(Exodus 34:6; Psalm 103:8; 1 Peter 5:10)
God is love.
(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:8)
God is spirit.
(John 4:24)
God is light.
(James 1:17; 1 John 1:5)
God is triune or trinity.
(Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Simply if you see Jesus or know him you will see or know the heavenly father (God)

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

Simply do to others that you would want done to yourself. Which is the Royal Law of love in sceptre. Laying down your life for others, as Jesus did. Our proof is in action.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

2And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

HOW?

Learning through the word of God through studying and instruction of the Spirit of God.

to many holes inyour post.

Too many

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

1 Corinthians 9

23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

24Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul had to being his body under subjection  so he won't be a castaway.

Paul had to continually run so he obtain a incorruptible crown

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 10:17:16

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:16:19

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

What are you talking about? You the post asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Jn 2:27

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

1 Jn 2:20

If we have the Holy Spirit he himself will lead us into truth. This is in conjunction with the word of God. We know that we know.

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible? 

God's character is seen in the whole of the bible. It is seen in his interactions with creation. The creation testifies of him. It is seen in his covenants. It is seen in his name and word...


Do you want to know more about God? These 20 Bible facts about God will give you insight into the nature and character of God.

God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is sovereign.
(2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 46:9-11)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
God is righteous and just.
(Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 11:7; Psalm 119:137)
God is faithful.
(Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 89:1-8)
God is true and truth.
(Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2)
God is good.
(Psalm 25:8; Psalm 34:8; Mark 10:18)
God is merciful.
(Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 103:8-17; Daniel 9:9; Hebrews 2:17)
God is gracious.
(Exodus 34:6; Psalm 103:8; 1 Peter 5:10)
God is love.
(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:8)
God is spirit.
(John 4:24)
God is light.
(James 1:17; 1 John 1:5)
God is triune or trinity.
(Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Simply if you see Jesus or know him you will see or know the heavenly father (God)

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

Simply do to others that you would want done to yourself. Which is the Royal Law of love in sceptre. Laying down your life for others, as Jesus did. Our proof is in action.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

2And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

HOW?

Learning through the word of God through studying and instruction of the Spirit of God.

to many holes inyour post.

Too many

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

With all due respect Howard....go and judge yourself.  ::cool::

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 12:12:08

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 10:17:16

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:16:19

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

What are you talking about? You the post asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Jn 2:27

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

1 Jn 2:20

If we have the Holy Spirit he himself will lead us into truth. This is in conjunction with the word of God. We know that we know.

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible? 

God's character is seen in the whole of the bible. It is seen in his interactions with creation. The creation testifies of him. It is seen in his covenants. It is seen in his name and word...


Do you want to know more about God? These 20 Bible facts about God will give you insight into the nature and character of God.

God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is sovereign.
(2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 46:9-11)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
God is righteous and just.
(Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 11:7; Psalm 119:137)
God is faithful.
(Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 89:1-8)
God is true and truth.
(Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2)
God is good.
(Psalm 25:8; Psalm 34:8; Mark 10:18)
God is merciful.
(Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 103:8-17; Daniel 9:9; Hebrews 2:17)
God is gracious.
(Exodus 34:6; Psalm 103:8; 1 Peter 5:10)
God is love.
(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:8)
God is spirit.
(John 4:24)
God is light.
(James 1:17; 1 John 1:5)
God is triune or trinity.
(Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Simply if you see Jesus or know him you will see or know the heavenly father (God)

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

Simply do to others that you would want done to yourself. Which is the Royal Law of love in sceptre. Laying down your life for others, as Jesus did. Our proof is in action.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

2And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

HOW?

Learning through the word of God through studying and instruction of the Spirit of God.

to many holes inyour post.

Too many

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

With all due respect Howard....go and judge yourself.  ::cool::

I have

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

so with all due respect inj

i assume you cannot answer the questions

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 11:23:11

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 12:12:08

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 10:17:16

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:16:19

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

What are you talking about? You the post asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Jn 2:27

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

1 Jn 2:20

If we have the Holy Spirit he himself will lead us into truth. This is in conjunction with the word of God. We know that we know.

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible? 

God's character is seen in the whole of the bible. It is seen in his interactions with creation. The creation testifies of him. It is seen in his covenants. It is seen in his name and word...


Do you want to know more about God? These 20 Bible facts about God will give you insight into the nature and character of God.

God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is sovereign.
(2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 46:9-11)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
God is righteous and just.
(Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 11:7; Psalm 119:137)
God is faithful.
(Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 89:1-8)
God is true and truth.
(Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2)
God is good.
(Psalm 25:8; Psalm 34:8; Mark 10:18)
God is merciful.
(Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 103:8-17; Daniel 9:9; Hebrews 2:17)
God is gracious.
(Exodus 34:6; Psalm 103:8; 1 Peter 5:10)
God is love.
(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:8)
God is spirit.
(John 4:24)
God is light.
(James 1:17; 1 John 1:5)
God is triune or trinity.
(Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Simply if you see Jesus or know him you will see or know the heavenly father (God)

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

Simply do to others that you would want done to yourself. Which is the Royal Law of love in sceptre. Laying down your life for others, as Jesus did. Our proof is in action.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

2And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

HOW?

Learning through the word of God through studying and instruction of the Spirit of God.

to many holes inyour post.

Too many

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

With all due respect Howard....go and judge yourself.  ::cool::

I have

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

so with all due respect inj

i assume you cannot answer the questions

Of course I can answer the questions. But as you appear to be acting pios rather than having a debate. I choose not to. As there would be no point.

2 Peter 1

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

: INJ  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 18:38:59

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 11:23:11

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 12:12:08

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

: INJ  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 10:17:16

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 09:16:19

author=INJ link=topic=58777.msg1054628802#msg1054628802 date=1319572834]
Simply put. We know we are serving Jesus when we know we are being led of the spirit after being born again of Gods spirit.

the Word says

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

can I try your spirit since you know? How do I know you are led by the spirit of God when the Word says that another Jesus is among us?

What are you talking about? You the post asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Jn 2:27

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

1 Jn 2:20

If we have the Holy Spirit he himself will lead us into truth. This is in conjunction with the word of God. We know that we know.

We are no longer using human reasoning but trusting in Gods character, Gods word and want to be with others who love God the same way.

what is God character where is it written in the bible?  

God's character is seen in the whole of the bible. It is seen in his interactions with creation. The creation testifies of him. It is seen in his covenants. It is seen in his name and word...


Do you want to know more about God? These 20 Bible facts about God will give you insight into the nature and character of God.

God is eternal.
(Deuteronomy 33:27; Jeremiah 10:10; Psalm 90:2)
God is infinite.
(1 Kings 8:22-27; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 102:25-27; Revelation 22:13)
God is self-sufficient and self-existent.
(Exodus 3:13-14; Psalm 50:10-12; Colossians 1:16)
God is omnipresent (present everywhere).
(Psalm 139:7-12)
God is omnipotent (all powerful).
(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6)
God is omniscient (all knowing).
(Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
God is unchanging or immutable.
(Psalm 102:25-27; Hebrews 1:10-12; 13:8)
God is sovereign.
(2 Samuel 7:22; Isaiah 46:9-11)
God is wise.
(Proverbs 3:19; Romans 16:26-27; 1 Timothy 1:17)
God is holy.
(Leviticus 19:2; 1 Peter 1:15)
God is righteous and just.
(Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 11:7; Psalm 119:137)
God is faithful.
(Deuteronomy 7:9; Psalm 89:1-8)
God is true and truth.
(Psalm 31:5; John 14:6; John 17:3; Titus 1:1-2)
God is good.
(Psalm 25:8; Psalm 34:8; Mark 10:18)
God is merciful.
(Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 103:8-17; Daniel 9:9; Hebrews 2:17)
God is gracious.
(Exodus 34:6; Psalm 103:8; 1 Peter 5:10)
God is love.
(John 3:16; Romans 5:8; 1 John 4:8)
God is spirit.
(John 4:24)
God is light.
(James 1:17; 1 John 1:5)
God is triune or trinity.
(Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

Simply if you see Jesus or know him you will see or know the heavenly father (God)

Even simpler, we love God if we love. Especially those fellow believers who love God. But also love their enemies, praying for those who persecute them.

what is this love you speak of how do we beleivers know we love God and other where is the proof?

Simply do to others that you would want done to yourself. Which is the Royal Law of love in sceptre. Laying down your life for others, as Jesus did. Our proof is in action.

We are transformed, by the renewing of our minds, become thankful forever more.

show me the verses on hoiw to renew our mind?

2And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

HOW?

Learning through the word of God through studying and instruction of the Spirit of God.

to many holes inyour post.

Too many

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

With all due respect Howard....go and judge yourself.  ::cool::

I have

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

so with all due respect inj

i assume you cannot answer the questions

Of course I can answer the questions. But as you appear to be acting pios rather than having a debate. I choose not to. As there would be no point.

quit making excuses and answer.

where do you make this judgement of me concerning piou?

is it because I don't beleive in what you are saying?

would you rather for me to cuss, lie and rabble rouse? 

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

This is not what God has commanded concerning testing the spirits.

1 John 4:1-8, paraphrased...

Don't Believe Everything You Hear

My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

Here's how you test for the genuine Spirit of God. Everyone who confesses openly his faith in Jesus Christ—the Son of God, who came as an actual flesh-and-blood person—comes from God and belongs to God. And everyone who refuses to confess faith in Jesus has nothing in common with God. This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!

My dear children, you come from God and belong to God. You have already won a big victory over those false teachers, for the Spirit in you is far stronger than anything in the world. These people belong to the Christ-denying world. They talk the world's language and the world eats it up. But we come from God and belong to God. Anyone who knows God understands us and listens. The person who has nothing to do with God will, of course, not listen to us. This is another test for telling the Spirit of Truth from the spirit of deception.

God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 19:00:51

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

This is not what God has commanded concerning testing the spirits.

1 John 4:1-8, paraphrased...

Don't Believe Everything You Hear

My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

Here's how you test for the genuine Spirit of God. Everyone who confesses openly his faith in Jesus Christ—the Son of God, who came as an actual flesh-and-blood person—comes from God and belongs to God. And everyone who refuses to confess faith in Jesus has nothing in common with God. This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!

My dear children, you come from God and belong to God. You have already won a big victory over those false teachers, for the Spirit in you is far stronger than anything in the world. These people belong to the Christ-denying world. They talk the world's language and the world eats it up. But we come from God and belong to God. Anyone who knows God understands us and listens. The person who has nothing to do with God will, of course, not listen to us. This is another test for telling the Spirit of Truth from the spirit of deception.

God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

Manna to you Lively, for being kind, sensitive and wise.

Many people could learn a lot from you if they had ears to hear.  ::kissing::

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 19:00:51

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

This is not what God has commanded concerning testing the spirits.

1 John 4:1-8, paraphrased...

Don't Believe Everything You Hear

My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

Here's how you test for the genuine Spirit of God. Everyone who confesses openly his faith in Jesus Christ—the Son of God, who came as an actual flesh-and-blood person—comes from God and belongs to God. And everyone who refuses to confess faith in Jesus has nothing in common with God. This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!

My dear children, you come from God and belong to God. You have already won a big victory over those false teachers, for the Spirit in you is far stronger than anything in the world. These people belong to the Christ-denying world. They talk the world's language and the world eats it up. But we come from God and belong to God. Anyone who knows God understands us and listens. The person who has nothing to do with God will, of course, not listen to us. This is another test for telling the Spirit of Truth from the spirit of deception.

God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

oh yes this is.

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word

in a week or two we will be HEARING eveything chirstmas

in a few months we will be HEARING eveything about easter

every sunday and every day we hear people speaking abot love ones wicked or righteous in heaven

every sunday and every day we hear about a wicked father or uncle burning in hell with satan.

you have to hear false doctrine in order to try it.   

what are the words of a evil spirit, evil words.

try it to see if it is from God.

is christmas from God
is easter from God
is going to heaven from God
is going to hell burning now from God

if so show me the spirit of truth put the verses

 

: INJ  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 19:49:41

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 19:00:51

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

This is not what God has commanded concerning testing the spirits.

1 John 4:1-8, paraphrased...

Don't Believe Everything You Hear

My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

Here's how you test for the genuine Spirit of God. Everyone who confesses openly his faith in Jesus Christ—the Son of God, who came as an actual flesh-and-blood person—comes from God and belongs to God. And everyone who refuses to confess faith in Jesus has nothing in common with God. This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!

My dear children, you come from God and belong to God. You have already won a big victory over those false teachers, for the Spirit in you is far stronger than anything in the world. These people belong to the Christ-denying world. They talk the world's language and the world eats it up. But we come from God and belong to God. Anyone who knows God understands us and listens. The person who has nothing to do with God will, of course, not listen to us. This is another test for telling the Spirit of Truth from the spirit of deception.

God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

Manna to you Lively, for being kind, sensitive and wise.

Many people could learn a lot from you if they had ears to hear.  ::kissing::

Wow! Thank you for that blessing, INJ!

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are spirit.

let me try your words to see if they are spirit

I always heard Jesus was born on dec 25th

show me where Jesus was born on dec 25th?

I always heard Jesus died good friday and rose early easter sunday morning

show me Jesus where Jesus died friday and rose easter sunday morning?

I laways heard that people go to heaven with the Father and Jesus

show me where man is in heaven the 3rd heaven where the Father and Jesus are?

let me try your spirit.

 

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:03:44

: INJ  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 19:49:41

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 19:00:51

: howard  Thu Oct 27, 2011 - 11:33:06

let me try your spirit as the Lord commanded

do you observe CHRIST MASS?
do you observe Easter?
do you believe man goes to heaven?
do you believe man goes to hell after death?
how  many spirits are there in God's word?

This is not what God has commanded concerning testing the spirits.

1 John 4:1-8, paraphrased...

Don't Believe Everything You Hear

My dear friends, don't believe everything you hear. Carefully weigh and examine what people tell you. Not everyone who talks about God comes from God. There are a lot of lying preachers loose in the world.

Here's how you test for the genuine Spirit of God. Everyone who confesses openly his faith in Jesus Christ—the Son of God, who came as an actual flesh-and-blood person—comes from God and belongs to God. And everyone who refuses to confess faith in Jesus has nothing in common with God. This is the spirit of antichrist that you heard was coming. Well, here it is, sooner than we thought!

My dear children, you come from God and belong to God. You have already won a big victory over those false teachers, for the Spirit in you is far stronger than anything in the world. These people belong to the Christ-denying world. They talk the world's language and the world eats it up. But we come from God and belong to God. Anyone who knows God understands us and listens. The person who has nothing to do with God will, of course, not listen to us. This is another test for telling the Spirit of Truth from the spirit of deception.

God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

Manna to you Lively, for being kind, sensitive and wise.

Many people could learn a lot from you if they had ears to hear.  ::kissing::

Wow! Thank you for that blessing, INJ!

wow! now that we know he can bless lets see if he can answer questions.

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:04:17
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are spirit.

let me try your words to see if they are spirit

I always heard Jesus was born on dec 25th

show me where Jesus was born on dec 25th?

I always heard Jesus died good friday and rose early easter sunday morning

show me Jesus where Jesus died friday and rose easter sunday morning?

I laways heard that people go to heaven with the Father and Jesus

show me where man is in heaven the 3rd heaven where the Father and Jesus are?

let me try your spirit.

 

Forget it howard. You are barking up the wrong tree. You do not test the spirits in that way. Do you think evil spirits will submit to your questions? Neither will the spirit of God in a person, because we see you may have some personal pride in trying to catch an evil spirit, yet all you can do in such queries is catch a person who may be ignorant of the word.

Not gonna do it!

God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

what is this love we are to continue in?

how do we do this.

are you sure God is Love, because I also can read that God can hate.

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:05:46

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:04:17
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are spirit.

let me try your words to see if they are spirit

I always heard Jesus was born on dec 25th

show me where Jesus was born on dec 25th?

I always heard Jesus died good friday and rose early easter sunday morning

show me Jesus where Jesus died friday and rose easter sunday morning?

I laways heard that people go to heaven with the Father and Jesus

show me where man is in heaven the 3rd heaven where the Father and Jesus are?

let me try your spirit.

 

Forget it howard. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I understand, lets forget it.

because I tried your spirit I barked up the right tree.

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:07:43
God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

what is this love we are to continue in?

how do we do this.

are you sure God is Love, because I also can read that God can hate.

But God is not hate, is He? Now, are you sure you believe what he says of Himself?

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:09:19

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:05:46

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:04:17
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are spirit.

let me try your words to see if they are spirit

I always heard Jesus was born on dec 25th

show me where Jesus was born on dec 25th?

I always heard Jesus died good friday and rose early easter sunday morning

show me Jesus where Jesus died friday and rose easter sunday morning?

I laways heard that people go to heaven with the Father and Jesus

show me where man is in heaven the 3rd heaven where the Father and Jesus are?

let me try your spirit.

 

Forget it howard. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I understand, lets forget it.

because I tried your spirit I barked up the right tree.

What does that mean to you? I am so used to being insulted around here, that I have no idea whether you are doing that or not.

Dear brother Howard,
You are correct when you say, "Jesus has something he wants us to do and it is his will that we do it.

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:07:43
God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

what is this love we are to continue in?

how do we do this.

are you sure God is Love, because I also can read that God can hate.

Howard I have already tested your spirit, and I would rather not talk to it anymore. God is Love, and in him is not darkness at all.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

(NKJV)
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 1 John 4:8

We are meant to provoke one another to love and good deeds my friend. Your attitude is one of delusion, we test by the word of God, and by the spirit of decrement not dates of Christmas.

Howard I have already tested your spirit, and I would rather not talk to it anymore. God is Love, and in him is not darkness at all.

and I yours and you need to ask the Lord for understanding God is Love like I said but God is hate also.

lets read it so you can get some understanding about the God Jesus

Psalm 139
21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

23Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Zechariah 8

16These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:

17And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.


Isaiah 61:8
For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogance, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

all over the bible the Lord tells you that he hates again i go back and read the words again,

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

lets read some more of the chapter and again I will try your spirit, keep reading you stop at verse 5 read verse 6 to the end of the chapter. those who don't sin and walk in God's words walk in the light and he is a light unto them they that walk in darkness and sin is he light unto them or he is darkness?[ /color]

notice John uses the word IF, so if you don't walk in light what is the other side to it 


1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


now lets look at a side of God though righteous, but far from love to those who don't obey

Proverbs 8:36
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Psalm 119:104
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Psalm 119:113
I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

2 Samuel 22:41
Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies, that I might destroy them that hate me.

Matthew 22:

12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  

14For many are called, but few are chosen.

look what the God of love did

here is another


Matthew 25

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hundred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hundred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hundred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hundred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

God is love but who ever taught you be it mom or pastor or denomination did not show you the other side of God

God hates also. God hate because he has a cause. The cause is due to wickedness and sin

We are meant to provoke one another to love and good deeds my friend. Your attitude is one of delusion, we test by the word of God, and by the spirit of decrement not dates of Christmas.

most people don't know what love is and I'm talking about Godly love so how can you provoke someone to do something they know nothing about, this saying of your is ludacris.

when the people start posting or speaking about christmas in a week or so they will associate Jesus in it your spirit will be tested at that time, what will you say? will you tell them Jesus has nothing to to with it or will you go along with it? you will go along with it!!!   

: thefixer  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 21:02:42
Dear brother Howard,
You are correct when you say, "Jesus has something he wants us to do and it is his will that we do it.

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:16:59

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:09:19

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:05:46

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:04:17
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are spirit.

let me try your words to see if they are spirit

I always heard Jesus was born on dec 25th

show me where Jesus was born on dec 25th?

I always heard Jesus died good friday and rose early easter sunday morning

show me Jesus where Jesus died friday and rose easter sunday morning?

I laways heard that people go to heaven with the Father and Jesus

show me where man is in heaven the 3rd heaven where the Father and Jesus are?

let me try your spirit.

 

Forget it howard. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I understand, lets forget it.

because I tried your spirit I barked up the right tree.

What does that mean to you? I am so used to being insulted around here, that I have no idea whether you are doing that or not.

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:16:59

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:09:19

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:05:46

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:04:17
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are spirit.

let me try your words to see if they are spirit

I always heard Jesus was born on DEC 25Th

show me where Jesus was born on DEC 25Th?

I always heard Jesus died good Friday and rose early Easter Sunday morning

show me Jesus where Jesus died Friday and rose Easter Sunday morning?

I always heard that people go to heaven with the Father and Jesus

show me where man is in heaven the 3rd heaven where the Father and Jesus are?

let me try your spirit.

 

Forget it howard. You are barking up the wrong tree.

I understand, lets forget it.

because I tried your spirit I barked up the right tree.

What does that mean to you? I am so used to being insulted around here, that I have no idea whether you are doing that or not.

first and foremost I am not here to insult people including you.

we are to grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus, in other words we all are still learning.

if people keep Xmas and associated it with Jesus is this the spirit of truth or the spirit of error?

if people keep good Friday to Easter Sunday morning and associated it wit Jesus is this the spirit of truth or the spirit of error?

 
if they do is this the spirit of truth or the spirit of error?

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

: Lively Stone  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:10:45

: howard  Sat Oct 29, 2011 - 20:07:43
God Is Love
My beloved friends, let us continue to love each other since love comes from God. Everyone who loves is born of God and experiences a relationship with God. The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can't know him if you don't love.

what is this love we are to continue in?

how do we do this.

are you sure God is Love, because I also can read that God can hate.

But God is not hate, is He? Now, are you sure you believe what he says of Himself?

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

God can hate he is not hate

you read it for yourself

Proverbs 6

16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

here is Jesus speaking by the mouth of David

Psalm 139:21
Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Psalm 139:22
I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Ecclesiastes 3:8
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

God can hate and it those who don't do what he says

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 24:22 - Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God No law, no need to go to church, its in the law (commandments), even on the wrong day of the week Sunday!

: bro.tan  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 20:00:56

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 24:22 - Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God No law, no need to go to church, its in the law (commandments), even on the wrong day of the week Sunday!

"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse.  And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins". (Mark 2: 21,22)

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

Are you saying that Jesus' Spirit was 'lawless and not obedient to God his Father ?
You are going against scripture my friend. Jesus kept his Fathers Commandments which include sabbath-keeping. Not only because he was a Jew but because the sabbath was made for man way before any mention of Jews.
Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath in the NT for us today...his Spirit is eternal.

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

Dear Beta
Yeshua said no such thing concerning any "tomb" where he would be spending three days and three nights:

Matthew 12:40 KJV
40.  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart (GSN#2588 "kardia") of the earth (GSN#1093 "ge").

Original Strong's Ref. #2588
Romanized  kardia
Pronounced kar-dee'-ah
elongated form from the primary kar (Latin, cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle:
KJV--(+ broken-)heart(-ed).

Original Strong's Ref. #1093
Romanized  ge
Pronounced ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

If you want to know what he means by "the kardia of the soil"-'adamah (a blood pumping organ of the human body) then perhaps the "Parable of the Sower" is a good place to start(over). And oh what a great Day of atonement-cleansing it will be, (three days and three nights that is) but each in his or her own appointed time.  ::smile::

Jonah 2:1-10 KJV
1.  Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,
2.  And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3.  For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4.  Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5.  The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6.  I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.
7.  When my soul fainted within me I remembered the Lord: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8.  They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9.  But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.
10.  And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

(http://sheshbazzardaq.com/emoticon-giggling.gif)

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 02:07:06

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

Dear Beta
Yeshua said no such thing concerning any "tomb" where he would be spending three days and three nights:

Matthew 12:40 KJV
40.  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart (GSN#2588 "kardia") of the earth (GSN#1093 "ge").

Original Strong's Ref. #2588
Romanized  kardia
Pronounced kar-dee'-ah
elongated form from the primary kar (Latin, cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle:
KJV--(+ broken-)heart(-ed).

Original Strong's Ref. #1093
Romanized  ge
Pronounced ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

If you want to know what he means by "the kardia of the soil"-'adamah (a blood pumping organ of the human body) then perhaps the "Parable of the Sower" is a good place to start(over). And oh what a great Day of atonement-cleansing it will be, (three days and three nights that is) but each in his or her own appointed time.  ::smile::

Hi daq , I am by no means 'educated like yourself and have to be content with a simple mind for which I make no apology (1Cor.1).
So when Jesus drew the analogy between Jonah and Himself Mat.12v39,40; it seemed reasonable to think he meant an equal period of time. That their confinement would be in different places was not really the issue...to me as I understood. And indeed followoing further scriptures led to a different fact than that believed in trad christianity.  ::smile::

Afraid I fail to see how the 'parable of the sower' could determine /confirm Jesus' prediction . Not that it has not a valid purpose as all parables have.!

Hi Beta
First off there is no way Yeshua was crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday if one believes that Palm Sunday was indeed a Sunday, (which it was). The Gospel of Mark lays out the entire week:

Re: "Good Thursday" ~ It was Friday 14 Nisan (Re: #16-18)
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2011, 07:05:07 AM (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/good-thursday/msg877112/#msg877112) »

Re: Harold Camping's Latest End Times Prediction
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2011, 12:12:21 AM (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/harold-camping's-latest-end-times-prediction/msg1054627229/#msg1054627229) »

More importantly the "Parable of the Sower" tells us exactly what the true earth-soil-ground-'adamah is to YHWH. It has much more to do with man and the "soil of the heart" than it does with "planet Earth" or the physical terrene-globe of the world, (but, of course, context is everything). In the Hebrew this difference is made clear with the two different words used for earth-land-soil-ground etc., which are 'erets (land) and 'adamah (soil). The soil which the Creator used to form the man Adam is called 'adamah and this is the "soil of the heart" whether for the good or the bad. In the Hebrew the 'adamah is more like the "soul" (which is the true man) and yet the 'erets is more like the outward body of the flesh, (outer court of the Temple including its outer precincts for the common or "profane").

Matthew 13:18-13 KJV
18.  Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19.  When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart (GSN#2588 "kardia"). This is he which received seed by the way side.
20.  But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21.  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22.  He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23.  But he that received seed into the good ground (GSN#1093 "ge") is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

::smile::

Here is a perfect example Beta ~

Ezekiel 36:16-28 KJV
16.  Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
17.  Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, (HSN#127 'adamah) they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18.  Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, (HSN#776 'erets) and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19.  And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: (HSN#776 'erets) according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20.  And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land (HSN#776 'erets).
21.  But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22.  Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23.  And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24.  For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, (HSN#776 'erets) and will bring you into your own land (HSN#127 'adamah).
25.  Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26.  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27.  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28.  And ye shall dwell in the land (HSN#776 'erets) that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Original Strong's Ref. #127
Romanized  'adamah
Pronounced ad-aw-maw'
from HSN0119; soil (from its general redness):
KJV--country, earth, ground, husband[-man] (-ry), land.

Original Strong's Ref. #776
Romanized  'erets
Pronounced eh'-rets
from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or, partitively, a land):
KJV--X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, + wilderness, world.

The passage speaks not of a literal, physical, or "geographic location" on a map, or on planet Earth, but rather concerns the people of YHWH including yourself, myself, and all those who come to Christ in faith. He is going to cleanse your heart-'adamah first and then shall you come to dwell in the land-'erets promised to the fathers: because the Torah of YHWH will be written in the "fertile soil"-'adamah of your heart!

::priest::  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 22:06:09

: bro.tan  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 20:00:56

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 24:22 - Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God No law, no need to go to church, its in the law (commandments), even on the wrong day of the week Sunday!

"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse.  And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins". (Mark 2: 21,22)

Amen. Godly wisdom Fish.

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 22:06:09

: bro.tan  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 20:00:56

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 24:22 - Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God No law, no need to go to church, its in the law (commandments), even on the wrong day of the week Sunday!

"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse.  And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins". (Mark 2: 21,22)

Lets go into Ephesian 2: 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


So Paul is saying that the Gentile are now fellowcitizens with the saints, or Israelites. Pay attention to the last verse, verse  20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Understand what foundation is, and you will see that you have to go back in the old book, there no testamony without the old book. Try walking in a house with no foundation. I understand why you uses Mark 2: 21,22, but in this case theres nothing new, and thats what you have to understand. Also Paul said in romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. You do know that the scriptures are from Genesis to malachi, if not you just learn now.

: bro.tan  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 19:26:09

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 22:06:09

: bro.tan  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 20:00:56

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 24:22 - Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God No law, no need to go to church, its in the law (commandments), even on the wrong day of the week Sunday!

"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse.  And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins". (Mark 2: 21,22)

Lets go into Ephesian 2: 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


So Paul is saying that the Gentile are now fellowcitizens with the saints, or Israelites. Pay attention to the last verse, verse  20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Understand what foundation is, and you will see that you have to go back in the old book, there no testamony without the old book. Try walking in a house with no foundation. I understand why you uses Mark 2: 21,22, but in this case theres nothing new, and thats what you have to understand. Also Paul said in romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. You do know that the scriptures are from Genesis to malachi, if not you just learn now.

And in addition to Chief Cornerstone ~ NEW SPIRIT
No wonder that an old wineskin looks much like a human heart. Wineskins were not replaced with "brand new" skins every time, (way too expensive) but rather they were refreshed and renewed. In order to renew a wineskin first it would be washed in running water, (River of Life) then it would be soaked in oil, (Holy Spirit).

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kQQkmQT7OYo/Top8qxedncI/AAAAAAAAAdg/rOs6HaRcpP0/s200/old-wine-skin.jpg)  (http://www.bluestemprairie.com/a_bluestem_prairie/images/2008/03/30/wineskin.jpg)

Matthew 9:17 ASV
17.  Neither do men put new wine into old wine-skins: (GSN#779 askos) else the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins perish: but they put new (GSN#3501 neos) wine into fresh (GSN#2537 kainos) wine-skins, and both are preserved.

Original Strong's Ref. #779
Romanized  askos
Pronounced as-kos'
from the same as GSN0778; a leathern (or skin) bag used as a bottle:
KJV--bottle.

Mark 2:22 ASV
22.  And no man putteth new wine into old wineskins; else the wine will burst the skins, and the wine perisheth, and the skins: but they put new (GSN#3501 neos) wine into fresh (GSN#2537 kainos) wine-skins.  

And the great thing about the Word and Doctrine of Christ is that herein we have the true intended meanings of both "neos" and "kainos" in the NT writings, (because CERTAINLY all of the NT Epistles adhere to the doctrines of Yeshua). Therefore we have before us the fact that the "New Covenant" is a RENEWED-REFRESHED-KAINOS COVENANT.

NEW SPIRIT  ~  RENEWED HEART

John 7: 38-39 YGB
38.  he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39.  and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV
13.  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18 KJV
18.  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

::priest::  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:41:20

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

Are you saying that Jesus' Spirit was 'lawless and not obedient to God his Father ?
You are going against scripture my friend. Jesus kept his Fathers Commandments which include sabbath-keeping. Not only because he was a Jew but because the sabbath was made for man way before any mention of Jews.
Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath in the NT for us today...his Spirit is eternal.

Beta--

I said no such thing.  Jesus was a Jew and was the only one who has ever kept the WHOLE Law perfectly.  The Law was fulfilled in Him. We have the Spirit of God living within our hearts---there is no further need to 'observe days'.  Those who are so taken up with the Sabbath and Saturdays remind me of the Pharisees who were so hung up on the Law that they were offended that Jesus would heal a man with a withered hand on the Sabbath, or that they were eating corn on the Sabbath, etc, etc.  They are so taken up with what day is the correct day to worship that they forget mercy and judgment just as the Pharisees did.

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

Fish

where was the Jew when the Lord did this act in the first book of the bible?

Genesis 2:3
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

where is the Jew in the last book of the bible?

Revelation 22:13-15
13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Is the they Jews only or all mankind?

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:41:20

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

Are you saying that Jesus' Spirit was 'lawless and not obedient to God his Father ?
You are going against scripture my friend. Jesus kept his Fathers Commandments which include sabbath-keeping. Not only because he was a Jew but because the sabbath was made for man way before any mention of Jews.
Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath in the NT for us today...his Spirit is eternal.

if we go by Fish understanding then we have to take a close look at Paul

is Paul a Jew or Benjamite?

lets read where Paul is from the tribe of benjamin,

Paul is not from the tribe of Judah

so is Paul really a Jew.

now we have this benjamite keeping the sabbath day long after Jesus death and resurrection.
 
Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

now for you gentiles that are out there Paul taught your forefathers to keep the sabbth day in the NT long after Jesus death and resurrection

lets read

Acts 13
42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.


wait a minute you mean that the non-jews (GENTILES) kept the sabbath in the NT?

Are you sure you are serving Jesus?

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

AMEN!!!

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 02:07:06

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

Dear Beta
Yeshua said no such thing concerning any "tomb" where he would be spending three days and three nights:

Matthew 12:40 KJV
40.  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart (GSN#2588 "kardia") of the earth (GSN#1093 "ge").

Original Strong's Ref. #2588
Romanized  kardia
Pronounced kar-dee'-ah
elongated form from the primary kar (Latin, cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle:
KJV--(+ broken-)heart(-ed).

Original Strong's Ref. #1093
Romanized  ge
Pronounced ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

If you want to know what he means by "the kardia of the soil"-'adamah (a blood pumping organ of the human body) then perhaps the "Parable of the Sower" is a good place to start(over). And oh what a great Day of atonement-cleansing it will be, (three days and three nights that is) but each in his or her own appointed time.  ::smile::

the tomb is the heart of the earth or we can call it a grave also.

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:41:20

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

Are you saying that Jesus' Spirit was 'lawless and not obedient to God his Father ?
You are going against scripture my friend. Jesus kept his Fathers Commandments which include sabbath-keeping. Not only because he was a Jew but because the sabbath was made for man way before any mention of Jews.
Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath in the NT for us today...his Spirit is eternal.

if we go by Fish understanding then we have to take a close look at Paul

is Paul a Jew or Benjamite

lets read where Paul is from the tribe of benjamin, Paul is not from the tribe of Judah so is Paul really a Jew.
now we have this benjamite keeping the sabbath day long after Jesus death and resurrection. \
 
Romans 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

now for you gentiles that are out there Paul taught your forefathers to keep the sabbth day in the NT long after Jesus death and resurrection

lets read for yourself


Acts 13

42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

44And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

wait a minute you mean that the non-jews (GENTILES) kept the sabbath in the NT?

Are you sure you are serving Jesus?

Matthew 25:40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Since I've done things for the "least of these", I'm fully confident I am serving Jesus and pleasing God.  Thanks for askin'!  ::smile::

: MeMyself  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 10:00:33
Matthew 25:40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Since I've done things for the "least of these", I'm fully confident I am serving Jesus and pleasing God.  Thanks for askin'!  ::smile::

thanks for replying

yet I will ask what things have you done for the least?

and the reason I ask is because of these people in Matthew 7

Matthew7
  21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


and here

I need you on the south side of Chicago, because we have many people who would need someone like you
because they will come up to you and say they are hungry or you will see the children without coats or in the summer in need of water.

how many of the followers of Jesus give to the people in the streets who God may send to them?

Matthew 25

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

: howard  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 10:08:42

: MeMyself  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 10:00:33
Matthew 25:40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Since I've done things for the "least of these", I'm fully confident I am serving Jesus and pleasing God.  Thanks for askin'!  ::smile::

thanks for replying

yet I will ask what things have you done for the least?

Hmmm...well, since its between myself and God I will point out this scripture...

Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

I don't want it to look like my acts of kindness were for MY glory at all, so I choose not to boast of them.

Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

They were for God's glory alone.
God bless!

People will see your deeds and your fruits because you are a example of the Lord.

Philippians 1:10-12
10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

12But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;


Matthew 7:19-21 (King James Version)

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


John 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

1 Peter 2:20-22 (King James Version)

20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:  

22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


Jesus kept the commandments
Jesus kept the sabbath
Jesus kept the feast days
Jesus was circumcised
Jesus was baptised
Jesus never said he was saved from the grave when the Father rraised him up
Jesus was born again after he died and was raised from the grave.
Jesus committed no sin and no guile was found in his mouth

Peter said follow in Jesus steps.

the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was an example to us that we should not do as they did.

what did they do?

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Genesis 13:13
But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

what is sin?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


so what Sodom and Gomorrah did is a example to us on what not to do

: howard  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 11:40:41
People will see your deeds and your fruits because you are a example of the Lord.

Philippians 1:10-12
10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

12But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;


Matthew 7:19-21 (King James Version)

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


John 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Yes, by our fruit, not our boasting.  ::smile::

: howard  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 11:45:56
1 Peter 2:20-22 (King James Version)

20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:  

22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


Jesus kept the commandments
Jesus kept the sabbath
Jesus kept the feast days
Jesus was circumcised
Jesus was baptised
Jesus never said he was saved from the grave when the Father rraised him up
Jesus was born again after he died and was raised from the grave.
Jesus committed no sin and no guile was found in his mouth

Peter said follow in Jesus steps.

Yes, we should follow Him (emulate Him) because He is our example...but following Him does not save our souls.  His death and resurrection has done that and if  "you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

In regards to what you understand Peter saying we should follow Jeus on...Jesus says this about what is most important to Him...serving the least of these and acknowledging Him before men...

PS. Jesus, I'm pretty sure kept the dietary law as well, but Peter was given freedom to eat everything...so was he in error and sin for not following Jesus on what he ate?

Dear brother Howard,
I assume you know who the Holy Spirit is and what He does as He interacts with the so blessed believer. The Spirit is one part of the essence of God. He is not an independent entity in that He is motivated only by the will GOD, which is who He is in reality. This is why, I feel, that it is so very important to establish the connection with God, through Jesus. The result being the 'gift' of the SPIRIT of GOD.
I would like you to, if you haven't already, consider some of the scripture you use in light of what I just stated. Let's begin with:
    Mat 4:4  But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
If a person has not been indwelled with the 'Spirit' the only "..word coming out of the mouth of God.

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 02:07:06

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

Dear Beta
Yeshua said no such thing concerning any "tomb" where he would be spending three days and three nights:

Matthew 12:40 KJV
40.  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart (GSN#2588 "kardia") of the earth (GSN#1093 "ge").

Original Strong's Ref. #2588
Romanized  kardia
Pronounced kar-dee'-ah
elongated form from the primary kar (Latin, cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle:
KJV--(+ broken-)heart(-ed).

Original Strong's Ref. #1093
Romanized  ge
Pronounced ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

If you want to know what he means by "the kardia of the soil"-'adamah (a blood pumping organ of the human body) then perhaps the "Parable of the Sower" is a good place to start(over). And oh what a great Day of atonement-cleansing it will be, (three days and three nights that is) but each in his or her own appointed time.  ::smile::

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 03:54:18
Hi Beta
First off there is no way Yeshua was crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday if one believes that Palm Sunday was indeed a Sunday, (which it was). The Gospel of Mark lays out the entire week:

Re: "Good Thursday" ~ It was Friday 14 Nisan (Re: #16-18)
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2011, 07:05:07 AM (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/good-thursday/msg877112/#msg877112) »

Re: Harold Camping's Latest End Times Prediction
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2011, 12:12:21 AM (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/harold-camping's-latest-end-times-prediction/msg1054627229/#msg1054627229) »

More importantly the "Parable of the Sower" tells us exactly what the true earth-soil-ground-'adamah is to YHWH. It has much more to do with man and the "soil of the heart" than it does with "planet Earth" or the physical terrene-globe of the world, (but, of course, context is everything). In the Hebrew this difference is made clear with the two different words used for earth-land-soil-ground etc., which are 'erets (land) and 'adamah (soil). The soil which the Creator used to form the man Adam is called 'adamah and this is the "soil of the heart" whether for the good or the bad. In the Hebrew the 'adamah is more like the "soul" (which is the true man) and yet the 'erets is more like the outward body of the flesh, (outer court of the Temple including its outer precincts for the common or "profane").

Matthew 13:18-13 KJV
18.  Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19.  When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart (GSN#2588 "kardia"). This is he which received seed by the way side.
20.  But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21.  Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22.  He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23.  But he that received seed into the good ground (GSN#1093 "ge") is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Here is a perfect example

Ezekiel 36:16-28 KJV
16.  Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
17.  Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, (HSN#127 'adamah) they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
18.  Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, (HSN#776 'erets) and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
19.  And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: (HSN#776 'erets) according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20.  And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land (HSN#776 'erets).
21.  But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22.  Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23.  And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24.  For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, (HSN#776 'erets) and will bring you into your own land (HSN#127 'adamah).
25.  Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26.  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27.  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28.  And ye shall dwell in the land (HSN#776 'erets) that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Original Strong's Ref. #127
Romanized  'adamah
Pronounced ad-aw-maw'
from HSN0119; soil (from its general redness):
KJV--country, earth, ground, husband[-man] (-ry), land.

Original Strong's Ref. #776
Romanized  'erets
Pronounced eh'-rets
from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or, partitively, a land):
KJV--X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, + wilderness, world.

The passage speaks not of a literal, physical, or "geographic location" on a map, or on planet Earth, but rather concerns the people of YHWH including yourself, myself, and all those who come to Christ in faith. He is going to cleanse your heart-'adamah first and then shall you come to dwell in the land-'erets promised to the fathers: because the Torah of YHWH will be written in the "fertile soil"-'adamah of your heart!

::priest::  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th

: howard  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 09:48:40

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 02:07:06

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

Dear Beta
Yeshua said no such thing concerning any "tomb" where he would be spending three days and three nights:

Matthew 12:40 KJV
40.  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart (GSN#2588 "kardia") of the earth (GSN#1093 "ge").

Original Strong's Ref. #2588
Romanized  kardia
Pronounced kar-dee'-ah
elongated form from the primary kar (Latin, cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle:
KJV--(+ broken-)heart(-ed).

Original Strong's Ref. #1093
Romanized  ge
Pronounced ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

If you want to know what he means by "the kardia of the soil"-'adamah (a blood pumping organ of the human body) then perhaps the "Parable of the Sower" is a good place to start(over). And oh what a great Day of atonement-cleansing it will be, (three days and three nights that is) but each in his or her own appointed time.  ::smile::

the tomb is the heart of the earth or we can call it a grave also.

For the same reasoning the "Prophecy Futurists" have no acceptable answer to the "Full Preterist" arguments because the Preterists know the Scripture well and use it like the Sword that it is. Yet, just like you, neither of them is willing to hear that the "fertile soil of the heart" is the true land of Judaea, and thus, (circumcision being of the heart and not of the flesh) there are therefore true Jews, (of the Spirit and the "fertile Judaean soil of the heart") and then there are those in Philadelphia who claim to be Jews and are not, (Rev.3:9). One of the Futurists recently graced the halls with her insinuations and indirect accusations towards all those who disagreed with her as being used of the devil and Satan. Yet, now that she has accomplished the work of her mother, the very board where she boasted and fronted her uncovered head is now flooded with Full Preterits and yet she is nowhere to be found in the brutal debates which are currently engulfing the same board, (which is not surprising, for as is the mother so is the daughter). Oh what a great fire is kindled by the tongue, being so little a member, yet boasting such great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! The tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. Oh well, that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of her neighbor, the poor of the flock understand.

::priest::  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th

: fish153  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 23:15:19

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:41:20

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

Are you saying that Jesus' Spirit was 'lawless and not obedient to God his Father ?
You are going against scripture my friend. Jesus kept his Fathers Commandments which include sabbath-keeping. Not only because he was a Jew but because the sabbath was made for man way before any mention of Jews.
Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath in the NT for us today...his Spirit is eternal.

Beta--

I said no such thing.  Jesus was a Jew and was the only one who has ever kept the WHOLE Law perfectly.  The Law was fulfilled in Him. We have the Spirit of God living within our hearts---there is no further need to 'observe days'.  Those who are so taken up with the Sabbath and Saturdays remind me of the Pharisees who were so hung up on the Law that they were offended that Jesus would heal a man with a withered hand on the Sabbath, or that they were eating corn on the Sabbath, etc, etc.  They are so taken up with what day is the correct day to worship that they forget mercy and judgment just as the Pharisees did.

I fail to see how anyone can claim to have the Spirit of Christ/God IN THEM and then live/walk CONTRARY to it ???
If one walks contrary to God's Spirit then that person is walking IN HIS OWN SPIRIT. Is not the Spirit of God DIFFERENT from the human spirit ? If we don't have HIS Spirit we are none of HIS.
GOD is Law-giver and whosoever transgresses the law (the Commandments NT) commits sin 1Joh 3v4 NT. How can anyone say there is no law to keep ? Are not the Commandments spiritual and eternal ? Rom.7.
The Sabbaths are 'Holy time God sanctified and reserved for his communication with man. This has nothing to do with the Jews or the Pharisees. It is NOT THEIR time - it is GOD's OWN time Lev.23. Man can not do as he likes with things/time  decreed,blessed and sanctified by GOD unless he sets himself above God.

I can only say again that Jesus specified and concentrated more on a certain 'time' in Mat.12v40 and was not in particular making reference to the location of where he would be.
The ' time ' he would spend in the 'grave' would 'prove' to make him the 'true Christ' as opposed to 'the imposter' who was not fulfilling Jesus' prediction and thus showing himself to be a liar and a false christ.
Biblically there can not be 3 days and 3 nights = 72 hours from friday sunset to sunday sunrise when deceived people celebrate his resurrection ,also unbiblical.

Dear sister Beta,
Considering the period of time ---three days and three nights --- I too had a problem with my understanding and scriptural understanding not coming together. After a great deal of research I came to realize that the Jewish notion of a day, during the times of the Bible, and our modern notion are not the same. Please read the following Commentaries that I got from E-Sword.

Wesley writes:
Matthew 12:40  Three days and three nights - It was customary with the eastern nations to reckon any part of a natural day of twenty - four hours, for the whole day. Accordingly they used to say a thing was done after three or seven days, if it was done on the third or seventh day, from that which was last mentioned. Instances of this may be seen, 1Ki_20:29; and in many other places. And as the Hebrews had no word to express a natural day, they used night and day, or day and night for it. So that to say a thing happened after three days and three nights, was with them the very same, as to say, it happened after three days, or on the third day. See Est_4:16; Est_5:1; Gen_7:4, Gen_7:12; Exo_24:18; Exo_34:28. Jon_2:1.

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown writes:
Matthew 12:40 
For as Jonas was — "a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation

: thefixer  Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 10:13:40
Dear sister Beta,
Considering the period of time ---three days and three nights --- I too had a problem with my understanding and scriptural understanding not coming together. After a great deal of research I came to realize that the Jewish notion of a day, during the times of the Bible, and our modern notion are not the same. Please read the following Commentaries that I got from E-Sword.

Wesley writes:
Matthew 12:40  Three days and three nights - It was customary with the eastern nations to reckon any part of a natural day of twenty - four hours, for the whole day. Accordingly they used to say a thing was done after three or seven days, if it was done on the third or seventh day, from that which was last mentioned. Instances of this may be seen, 1Ki_20:29; and in many other places. And as the Hebrews had no word to express a natural day, they used night and day, or day and night for it. So that to say a thing happened after three days and three nights, was with them the very same, as to say, it happened after three days, or on the third day. See Est_4:16; Est_5:1; Gen_7:4, Gen_7:12; Exo_24:18; Exo_34:28. Jon_2:1.

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown writes:
Matthew 12:40  
For as Jonas was — "a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation

Dear brother daq,
Might I ask you, Of what ethnicity was Jesus, the writers of scripture, and the witnesses to the life and death of Jesus? were they not all Jews? doesn't it follow that they would speak in terms they were used to speaking in? And don't you think it at all possible that you are placing your understanding and expectations ahead of complete acceptance of the contextual approach to Biblical understanding?
The last part of your post I find interesting in light of your stance. You wrote:
"When Yeshua appeared to the two on the road to Emmaus it was absolutely NOT yet three days and three nights to the full. Therefore what I have stated above is the TRUTH."
It reads to me as Three days and Three nights had not yet past when Jesus appeared. Or perhaps you are stating the same as I, that Three days and Three nights do NOT equate to today's measurement of time.
Your loving brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

Hi the fixer, Why would I want to read various commentaries written by MEN when I have the Word of GOD/Christ ?
Jesus tells us exactly how long a biblical day/night is Joh.11v9,10; that is all we need to know to make the right calculations regarding his prediction in Mat.12v40.
Jesus was buried and rose again 'according to scripture 1Cor.15v4, not according to human understanding. Thank you for your trouble.

Dear sister Beta,
Might I ask if use a concordance to aid in your Bible study?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

Wow! Lot of info. I like the part in the first chapter of the Book of Acts, right where it states, " Many infallible proofs". ::clappingoverhead::

: thefixer  Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 19:42:44
Dear sister Beta,
Might I ask if use a concordance to aid in your Bible study?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).

The only dictionary/ concordance I use is in the back of my battered KJV which only refers me back to scriptures.
It is precisely all the many human ideas/interpretations/opinions that satan uses to confuse mankind Rev.12v9. The carnal mind is a vast oportunity to be exploited and 'boy - does he take advantage of it.Rom.8v7 The ignorant self-seeking mind is like a lamb to the slaughter ....hence the ' MANY' on the road to destruction.

: MeMyself  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 11:53:02

: howard  Tue Nov 01, 2011 - 11:40:41
People will see your deeds and your fruits because you are a example of the Lord.

Philippians 1:10-12
10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

12But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;


Matthew 7:19-21 (King James Version)

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


John 13:15
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Yes, by our fruit, not our boasting.  ::smile::

ok

remove the boasting

are you sure you are serving Jesus?

helping people is not all of the criteria for serving Jesus

author=MeMyself link=topic=58777.msg1054631149#msg1054631149 date=1320166659]
author=howard link=topic=58777.msg1054631136#msg1054631136 date=1320165956]
1 Peter 2:20-22 (King James Version)

20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:  

22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


Jesus kept the commandments
Jesus kept the sabbath
Jesus kept the feast days
Jesus was circumcised
Jesus was baptised
Jesus never said he was saved from the grave when the Father rraised him up
Jesus was born again after he died and was raised from the grave.
Jesus committed no sin and no guile was found in his mouth

Peter said follow in Jesus steps.

Yes, we should follow Him (emulate Him) because He is our example...but following Him does not save our souls.  His death and resurrection has done that and if  "you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

and you are correct but Paul goes on to say in the same chapter that the people have not heard or beleive the report on Jesus and how shall they hear unless they have a preacher sent from God.

so it much more than confessing because of all the stipulations that Paul addresses in the barrage of question he aske after.

it say you shall be saved which is future.

Romans 10

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

understand what Paul is saying hear in Romans 10 he is asking are you really serving Jesus
who has beleived in Jesus?

In regards to what you understand Peter saying we should follow Jeus on...Jesus says this about what is most important to Him...serving the least of these and acknowledging Him before men...

how do we acknowledge him before men? with our mouth? with confession? no, with deeds.

PS. Jesus, I'm pretty sure kept the dietary law as well, but Peter was given freedom to eat everything...so was he in

where is this written?

author=thefixer link=topic=58777.msg1054631381#msg1054631381 date=1320216511]
Dear brother Howard,
I assume you know who the Holy Spirit is and what He does as He interacts with the so blessed believer. The Spirit is one part of the essence of God. He is not an independent entity in that He is motivated only by the will GOD, which is who He is in reality. This is why, I feel, that it is so very important to establish the connection with God, through Jesus. The result being the 'gift' of the SPIRIT of GOD.
I would like you to, if you haven't already, consider some of the scripture you use in light of what I just stated. Let's begin with:
    Mat 4:4  But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
If a person has not been indwelled with the 'Spirit' the only "..word coming out of the mouth of God.

: daq  Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 10:44:50

: thefixer  Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 10:13:40
Dear sister Beta,
Considering the period of time ---three days and three nights --- I too had a problem with my understanding and scriptural understanding not coming together. After a great deal of research I came to realize that the Jewish notion of a day, during the times of the Bible, and our modern notion are not the same. Please read the following Commentaries that I got from E-Sword.

Wesley writes:
Matthew 12:40  Three days and three nights - It was customary with the eastern nations to reckon any part of a natural day of twenty - four hours, for the whole day. Accordingly they used to say a thing was done after three or seven days, if it was done on the third or seventh day, from that which was last mentioned. Instances of this may be seen, 1Ki_20:29; and in many other places. And as the Hebrews had no word to express a natural day, they used night and day, or day and night for it. So that to say a thing happened after three days and three nights, was with them the very same, as to say, it happened after three days, or on the third day. See Est_4:16; Est_5:1; Gen_7:4, Gen_7:12; Exo_24:18; Exo_34:28. Jon_2:1.

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown writes:
Matthew 12:40  
For as Jonas was — "a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 08:42:36

how do we acknowledge him before men? with our mouth? with confession? no, with deeds.

We acknowledge Him in how we live..and with our words of encouragement..and when we are challenged if we believe, by saying "yes".  What does JESUS say we are to do in our following of Him?  I cannot remember ONE time where He tells us to worship on a specific day or eat a specific way...He talks to us about how we treat others.  ::smile::

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 08:42:36

PS. Jesus, I'm pretty sure kept the dietary law as well, but Peter was given freedom to eat everything...so was he in

where is this written?

::smile:: Acts 10:9-16  ::smile:: Acts 10:9-16
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 09:29:35

: daq  Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 10:44:50
Sorry "thefixer" but that is nothing more than a bunch of fancy footwork from people who do not have the answer. There are other places where Yeshua states that he will be raised "in the third day" and those are the places where the "Jewish" or "Hebrew" expression applies. The very reason that Yeshua states precisely THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS is so that there be absolutely no mistaking the statement with a so-called Jewish expression. Do you know that this particular topic is one often used by non-believers to discredit the Gospel of Christ? For such reasons it behooves us to understand the truth in this matter.

Luke 24:13-21 KJV
13.  And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14.  And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15.  And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16.  But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17.  And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18.  And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19.  And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20.  And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21.  But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

When Yeshua appeared to the two on the road to Emmaus it was absolutely NOT yet three days and three nights to the full. Therefore what I have stated above is the TRUTH.

what is your point?

Luke 24
1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

it looks to me that Jesus rose before the sun came up because he was gone.

sometime after the sun went down saturday he had rose from the grave

the first day of the week starts when the sun goes down of the 7th day of the week

if you go by the error of good friday to sunday morning the Jesus of the bible was not in the grave 3 days and 3 nights

if you go by the bible the Jesus of the bible went in the grave wednesday before the sun went down and rose after the sun went down saturday night

this is why Jesus was walking around sunday morning or what they called back then the first day of the week

Jesus said

Luke 13

    32And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.   33Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

35Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

was Jesus perfected or raised the third day do we believe this?

My point has not changed one iota,  ::smile::
Here it is again:

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 02:07:06

: Beta  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 01:23:59

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

I am with you in all this howard but remember :
if they don't hear God or Jesus they certainly won't hear you or me !
They are following a wrong Jesus ....an imposter who for them rose on easter-sunday. The true Jesus was in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights as HE himself predicted and ' rose according to scripture in the end of the Sabbath.....not according to human reasoning which is 'glaringly false.
This world remains 'deceived until satan is cast into the abyss at the end of this evil age ...that he should deceive the nations no more.

And scripture can not be broken !

Dear Beta
Yeshua said no such thing concerning any "tomb" where he would be spending three days and three nights:

Matthew 12:40 KJV
40.  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart (GSN#2588 "kardia") of the earth (GSN#1093 "ge").

Original Strong's Ref. #2588
Romanized  kardia
Pronounced kar-dee'-ah
elongated form from the primary kar (Latin, cor, "heart"); the heart, i.e. (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle:
KJV--(+ broken-)heart(-ed).

Original Strong's Ref. #1093
Romanized  ge
Pronounced ghay
contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):
KJV--country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

If you want to know what he means by "the kardia of the soil"-'adamah (a blood pumping organ of the human body) then perhaps the "Parable of the Sower" is a good place to start(over). And oh what a great Day of atonement-cleansing it will be, (three days and three nights that is) but each in his or her own appointed time.  ::smile::

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 02:07:06

However, if you now want to know all of which was said in between then and here then you will now need to go reread all of it and find it for yourself. Yet if you did not care about the Atonement of your own soul to begin with then why should I continue here now? As the Prophet Zechariah stated: "That that dieth let it die"...  ::smile::

(because CERTAINLY all of the NT Epistles adhere to the doctrines of Yeshua). Therefore we have before us the fact that the "New Covenant" is a RENEWED-REFRESHED-KAINOS COVENANT.

All the doctrines of the NT do not only adhere to the doctrine of Yeshua, it is the doctrine of Yeshua, no difference.

The New Covenant is NEW, not refresh.....totally wrong. In the New covenant you MUST be born again. It is not a refresh, or rehashing of the old. It is something that had never been done before.

: INJ  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 11:55:01

(because CERTAINLY all of the NT Epistles adhere to the doctrines of Yeshua). Therefore we have before us the fact that the "New Covenant" is a RENEWED-REFRESHED-KAINOS COVENANT.

All the doctrines of the NT do not only adhere to the doctrine of Yeshua, it is the doctrine of Yeshua, no difference.

The New Covenant is NEW, not refresh.....totally wrong. In the New covenant you MUST be born again. It is not a refresh, or rehashing of the old. It is something that had never been done before.

Again:

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 21:29:31

: bro.tan  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 19:26:09

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 22:06:09

: bro.tan  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 20:00:56

: fish153  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 15:08:29

: howard  Sun Oct 30, 2011 - 07:50:26

Jesus custom was to keep the 7th day sabbath

Luke 4

15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

are you sure you are following the Jesus who kept the 7th day sabbath?

Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath because he was a JEW.  We are Christians saved by God's Grace--we live by
the Spirit, not by the Law.

In the scriptures its written in Leviticus 24:22 - Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God No law, no need to go to church, its in the law (commandments), even on the wrong day of the week Sunday!

"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. Otherwise, the new piece will pull away from the old, making the tear worse.  And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins". (Mark 2: 21,22)

Lets go into Ephesian 2: 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


So Paul is saying that the Gentile are now fellowcitizens with the saints, or Israelites. Pay attention to the last verse, verse  20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Understand what foundation is, and you will see that you have to go back in the old book, there no testamony without the old book. Try walking in a house with no foundation. I understand why you uses Mark 2: 21,22, but in this case theres nothing new, and thats what you have to understand. Also Paul said in romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. You do know that the scriptures are from Genesis to malachi, if not you just learn now.

And in addition to Chief Cornerstone ~ NEW SPIRIT
No wonder that an old wineskin looks much like a human heart. Wineskins were not replaced with "brand new" skins every time, (way too expensive) but rather they were refreshed and renewed. In order to renew a wineskin first it would be washed in running water, (River of Life) then it would be soaked in oil, (Holy Spirit).

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kQQkmQT7OYo/Top8qxedncI/AAAAAAAAAdg/rOs6HaRcpP0/s200/old-wine-skin.jpg)  (http://www.bluestemprairie.com/a_bluestem_prairie/images/2008/03/30/wineskin.jpg)

Matthew 9:17 ASV
17.  Neither do men put new wine into old wine-skins: (GSN#779 askos) else the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins perish: but they put new (GSN#3501 neos) wine into fresh (GSN#2537 kainos) wine-skins, and both are preserved.

Original Strong's Ref. #779
Romanized  askos
Pronounced as-kos'
from the same as GSN0778; a leathern (or skin) bag used as a bottle:
KJV--bottle.

Mark 2:22 ASV
22.  And no man putteth new wine into old wineskins; else the wine will burst the skins, and the wine perisheth, and the skins: but they put new (GSN#3501 neos) wine into fresh (GSN#2537 kainos) wine-skins.  

And the great thing about the Word and Doctrine of Christ is that herein we have the true intended meanings of both "neos" and "kainos" in the NT writings, (because CERTAINLY all of the NT Epistles adhere to the doctrines of Yeshua). Therefore we have before us the fact that the "New Covenant" is a RENEWED-REFRESHED-KAINOS COVENANT.

NEW SPIRIT  ~  RENEWED HEART

John 7: 38-39 YGB
38.  he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39.  and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV
13.  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18 KJV
18.  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

::priest::  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th

: daq  Mon Oct 31, 2011 - 21:29:31

And ~

Luke 5:34-39 KJV
34.  And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
35.  But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
36.  And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
37.  And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38.  But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
39.  No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

Sorry for your luck ...  ::crackup::  ::smile::

in the wilderness we read where it was the Jesus of the bible leading Israel around.

1 Corinthians 10

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

this same Jesus is the same God who gave man the dietary laws

Leviticus 11

1And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you


44For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

the Jesus of the bible makes a difference between what we can eat and what we can't.

and the same Jesus who gave the dietary laws don't change his mind,

Malachi 3

6For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

so whgen we get to the NT did the Jesus of the bible change his mind according to his own command

NOT

according to Paul



Hebrews 13
8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
   

so who is the Jesus being taught today that changed his mind and now says we can eat anything?

where is this written?

we read where we cant eat anything we want, where is it written that we can?

 

::smile:: Acts 10:9-16  ::smile:: Acts 10:9-16
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.

the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

Millions of professing Christians attend church each Sunday, singing songs, clapping hands and wanting to "feel good" about their acceptance of The Person of Christ—at least their idea about Christ.

Yet the true Christ of the Bible warns us all:


(Mat.7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These are church people that Jesus is going tell to "Depart from me I never knew you ye that work iniquity

That might work with man but I guarantee you it will not fly with God.


In decrying lawlessness, Jesus was talking about mankind's failure to keep God's spiritual Law, the Ten Commandments. Many churches today give "lip service" to the commandments just as the word of God prophesied they would;


(Eze.33:30-32) (v.31) Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD. (v.31) And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. (v.32) And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.

You hear what thus saith the Lord but you aren't going to do it.

Oh, it sounds like a very lovely song and a pleasant voice when you hear it, you hear what the word of God says but you do them not.

Some churches are quick to say we teach and keep the commandments but their members become some what confused if they are reminded that the fourth commandment directly tells us to worship God on the seventh day of the week, which we know as Saturday not the ancient, pagan "day of the sun, Sunday.

The truth is that we have become, in large part, a society of Salad-Bar Christians.

Many like to profess that they follow Christ, but few actually follow Him! Many like to profess that they believe in the Ten Commandments, but they are extremely quick to "water down" the commandments when it suits their purpose—and our modern "lifestyle."

We like to think that we stand for truth.

But how many of us resort to lying "a little" when it suits our purpose?

How many of us actually keep the dietary law of the bible.

Again, the word of God is very clear.

For the Apostle John quotes the word of God promising:

(Rev 21:7-8) (v.7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (v.8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The liar and the murderers along with the whoremongers and the abominable will receive the same reward.

Let's take a quick look at one way that you can make yourself abominable in the eyes of the Lord.

(Lev 20:25) Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.

You mean you didn't know that you could make yourself unclean and abominable by eating certain manners of food?

Yes, what your diet consists of could very well have you tossed into the fire with the liars and the murderers and the whoremongers.

howard , you may well have touched on an interesting point when you mention 'unclean foods.
I know the dietary laws along with the Commandments and Feasts of the Lord are not popular but I believe they reveal something important.
1Cor.15v46 says : ...that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural and afterward that which is spiritual.
Now ...if we eat 'unclean food how can we assume to be spiritually clean ?  ::pondering::

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 20:57:32

::smile:: Acts 10:9-16  ::smile:: Acts 10:9-16
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.

: Beta  Fri Nov 04, 2011 - 15:04:29
howard , you may well have touched on an interesting point when you mention 'unclean foods.
I know the dietary laws along with the Commandments and Feasts of the Lord are not popular but I believe they reveal something important.
1Cor.15v46 says : ...that was not first which is spiritual but that which is natural and afterward that which is spiritual.
Now ...if we eat 'unclean food how can we assume to be spiritually clean ?  ::pondering::

we cant.

when we eat things that God said don't eat we disobey the word of God.

the feast days actually is a blue print for Jesus coming

lets take a look at the day of pentecost

in Acts 2 Peter said this concerning this day

 
Acts 2

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


lets  look at Joel 2

28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


same event

Peter says this day is on the day of pentecost

let look at through John writings

same event

Revelation 6

12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

when te heavens role back like a scroll and the events happen to the moon and sun

this is the day of pentecost on the year of pentecost.

this day will be the sign of the return of Jesus.

: MeMyself  Fri Nov 04, 2011 - 15:20:24

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 20:57:32

::smile:: Acts 10:9-16  ::smile:: Acts 10:9-16
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.

IF Jesus' blood is pure enough to cleanse the sinners heart, He surely can cleanse what we eat.  The verse tells us that Peter said "NO LORD!" to what the Lord had shown him before He said to get up, kill and eat.  GOD said, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." It reasons that He was telling Peter that there was no more reason for dietary restrictions, that Christ's death and resurrection had even fulfilled that.  God SHOWED Peter what his choices were and clearly there were things he was unaccustomed to eating.

BUT, it really seems you aren't open to a discussion, just open to being right and condemning others, so I'll bow out now.

you brought this up, don't go now

show me where God said we can eat anything now, show me in this chapter were unclean foods are clean

Acts 10

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate


show me

what I read is God gave confused Peter some understanding

Peter said God has showed him not ot call no man common or UNCLEAN

28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean

he showed Peter, he has showed me and everyone on this forum, will you run or will you try to understand?

God was not talking about food God was talking about MAN!!

 

   

Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation






Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Peter was to minister to and fellowship with the gentiles....man was not unclean nor his eating habits because they were not born Jewish.  God gave him the call to give up the letter of the law in order to minister and show the lost the way and hope of Christ.

He forgot that when he let the judgements of the law keepers intimidate him and he went back to law keeping.  He was called to task for it by Paul in Galatians 2:11-21   ::smile::

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation

Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Full marks for trying to lead MeMysslf to water... but you can't make him drink.
If they won.t hear Jesus they won't hear you..or me.
Most trad Christians only hear Peter or Paul (as you heard from his own lips) so further trying is a waste of time.  ::doh:: ::cryingtears::

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:32:05

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation

Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Full marks for trying to lead MeMysslf to water... but you can't make him drink.
If they won.t hear Jesus they won't hear you..or me.
Most trad Christians only hear Peter or Paul (as you heard from his own lips) so further trying is a waste of time.  ::doh:: ::cryingtears::

Wow...ok..that was rude.

I also hear what JESUS says  ::smile::
Matthew 15: 10-20
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:49:06

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:32:05

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation

Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Full marks for trying to lead MeMysslf to water... but you can't make him drink.
If they won.t hear Jesus they won't hear you..or me.
Most trad Christians only hear Peter or Paul (as you heard from his own lips) so further trying is a waste of time.  ::doh:: ::cryingtears::

Wow...ok..that was rude.

I also hear what JESUS says  ::smile::
Matthew 15: 10-20
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 12:02:11

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:49:06

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:32:05

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation

Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Full marks for trying to lead MeMysslf to water... but you can't make him drink.
If they won.t hear Jesus they won't hear you..or me.
Most trad Christians only hear Peter or Paul (as you heard from his own lips) so further trying is a waste of time.  ::doh:: ::cryingtears::

Wow...ok..that was rude.

I also hear what JESUS says  ::smile::
Matthew 15: 10-20
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 12:09:27

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 12:02:11

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:49:06

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:32:05

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation

Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Full marks for trying to lead MeMysslf to water... but you can't make him drink.
If they won.t hear Jesus they won't hear you..or me.
Most trad Christians only hear Peter or Paul (as you heard from his own lips) so further trying is a waste of time.  ::doh:: ::cryingtears::

Wow...ok..that was rude.

I also hear what JESUS says  ::smile::
Matthew 15: 10-20
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation






Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Well now I have heard it all. Are you serious??? I was listening to a CD of Galatians yesterday, when Paul speaks of others being bewitched because people were letting others tell them that they needed to be circumcised and do other  things from the law. "Foolish Galatians,who has bewitched you" he says. This seems to be happening here. God makes it clear that we can eat anthing now because he has declared all food clean. Why try to make a passage says what it doesn't? To imply that we are risking our salvation because we eat pork(horror!!!) is madness. God has declared that all food is allowable for us to eat, yes even food that has been offered to idols.
Not sure what church you come from,but if I were you I would leave it asap if that is what nonsense they teach.Seriously worrying.

: Sinead  Tue Oct 25, 2011 - 00:54:36
We are not saved until the end. It isn't over till it's over.

It is He who endures to the end who will be saved. This is a futristic verse. It is something yet to come.

If we are still alive in the world we are not yet at the end and we are not yet saved - however we are followers of Christ.

We are told to examine ourselves to see whether or not we are in the faith.  2 Corinthians 13:5

Popular teachings today would have us believe that once we're saved we can never turn away from Christ and forfeit our salvation. This is a false and dangerous teaching that can and has lead people down a dangerous path.

IF we endure to the end with Him, then we will be saved.
IF we abide in Him, He will abide in us.
IF we do not deny Him before men, He will not deny us and confess us before the angels and before the Father.

Exactly!!! Gods salvation carries with it the knowledge of the Holy Spirit revealed to us and that seals us through repentance that we are adopted into Christ having the same inheritance as long as we keep faith in him and endure/overcome all persecutions of this world up to the time of Jesus return whether we be alive or dead physically.

If I am allowing the Holy Spirit to dwell in me then I know for a surety that I am continuing in the works of the Lord by allowing His Spirit to guide me in all things until the day I am saved from the destruction of this world waiting for the new earth and new Jerusalem to be ushered down from God.
Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Eph 1:1  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:2  Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6  To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14  Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

: chosenone  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 13:20:04

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation






Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Well now I have heard it all. Are you serious??? I was listening to a CD of Galatians yesterday, when Paul speaks of others being bewitched because people were letting others tell them that they needed to be circumcised and do other  things from the law. "Foolish Galatians,who has bewitched you" he says. This seems to be happening here. God makes it clear that we can eat anthing now because he has declared all food clean. Why try to make a passage says what it doesn't? To imply that we are risking our salvation because we eat pork(horror!!!) is madness. God has declared that all food is allowable for us to eat, yes even food that has been offered to idols.
Not sure what church you come from,but if I were you I would leave it asap if that is what nonsense they teach.Seriously worrying.

Amen. Howard gives Torah a bad name and turns people off to the Truth that the Law is SPIRIT. Take the Parable of the Sower for instance: the fowls of heaven, (unclean birds listed in Lev.11:13-19) are the "wicked one", devil, and Satan, who swoop in and steal the seeds of truth from the compacted, rocky, soil on the side of the road, (hardened hearts). The dietary laws are interpreted in this way by the Master in some of the parables. They have nothing to do with physical eating because they are commandments given in SPIRIT from the voice of YHWH, (and the Decalogue by the very finger of YHWH which is Yeshua our High Priest). If one understands the dietary laws in Spirit then "You shall not eat swine" means "DO NOT BE LIKE SWINE" etc., etc., do not be like the fowls who wait and watch from above for weak and vulnerable young to swoop and devour. For the same reasons which Howard displays herein, (an understanding of everything according to the flesh and the eyes of the flesh) the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes, were false teachers and condemned for it. However, the NT church is reminded not to eat things sacrificed to idols, (Acts 15:29, Rev.2:14-20) this commandment is in the same SPIRIT. I once had an entire library shelf full of books and had already consumed all of them before I realized (was shown) they were food that had been sacrificed to the once awesome greenback pigs.  ::smile::

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 21:05:22
the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 12:41:45

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 12:09:27

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 12:02:11

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:49:06

: Beta  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 11:32:05

: howard  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:22:32
Jesus gave us the dietary laws and they are still valid

if you think they are not then are you really serving Jesus

lets read for those who want to continue to disobeying Jesus and believe or been taught to eat what you want  you are playing with your salvation

Isaiah 65

1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

2I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

3A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

4Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

5Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

6Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

when Jesus returns!!!

Full marks for trying to lead MeMysslf to water... but you can't make him drink.
If they won.t hear Jesus they won't hear you..or me.
Most trad Christians only hear Peter or Paul (as you heard from his own lips) so further trying is a waste of time.  ::doh:: ::cryingtears::

Wow...ok..that was rude.

I also hear what JESUS says  ::smile::
Matthew 15: 10-20
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

Yes we are under obligation of 'Commandments since they are all over the NT.

Are you ? You should be if you hear Jesus Joh.15v10.
The Father's Commandments include the 7th day Sabbath
why is it not kept ? Lk.6v46
Hearing Jesus is one thing - obeying is another.  ::pondering::

: Debbie_55  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 14:28:53

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 21:05:22
the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there 

: MeMyself  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 10:48:04
Peter was to minister to and fellowship with the gentiles....man was not unclean nor his eating habits because they were not born Jewish.  God gave him the call to give up the letter of the law in order to minister and show the lost the way and hope of Christ.

He forgot that when he let the judgements of the law keepers intimidate him and he went back to law keeping.  He was called to task for it by Paul in Galatians 2:11-21   ::smile::

Acts10 and Galatians2 are 2 separate events, 2 different towns, with 2 differents situatuions

  *
Joppa beauty, a town in the portion of Dan (Josh. 19:46; A.V., "Japho"), on a sandy promontory between Caesarea and Gaza, and at a distance of 30 miles north-west from Jerusalem. It is one of the oldest towns in Asia. It was and still is the chief sea-port of Judea. It was never wrested from the Phoenicians. It became a Jewish town only in the second century B.C. It was from this port that Jonah "took ship to flee from the presence of the Lord" (Jonah 1:3). To this place also the wood cut in Lebanon by Hiram's men for Solomon was brought in floats (2 Chr. 2:16); and here the material for the building of the second temple was also landed (Ezra 3:7). At Joppa, in the house of Simon the tanner, "by the sea-side," Peter resided "many days," and here, "on the house-top," he had his "vision of tolerance" (Acts 9:36-43). It bears the modern name of Jaffa, and exibituds all the decrepitude and squalor of cities ruled over by the Turks. "Scarcely any other town has been so often overthrown, sacked, pillaged, burned, and rebuilt." Its present population is said to be about 16,000. It was taken by the French under Napoleon in 1799, who gave orders for the massacre here of 4,000 prisoners. It is connected with Jerusalem by the only carriage road that exists in the country, and also by a railway completed in 1892. It is noticed on monuments B.C. 1600-1300, and was attacked by Sannacharib B.C. 702.


*
Antioch (1.) In Syria, on the river Orontes, about 16 miles from the Mediterranean, and some 300 miles north of Jerusalem. It was the metropolis of Syria, and afterwards became the capital of the Roman province in Asia. It ranked third, after Rome and Alexandria, in point of importance, of the cities of the Roman empire. It was called the "first city of the East." Christianity was early introduced into it (Acts 11:19, 21, 24), and the name "Christian" was first applied here to its professors (Acts 11:26). It is intimately connected with the early history of the gospel (Acts 6:5; 11:19, 27, 28, 30; 12:25; 15:22-35; Gal. 2:11, 12). It was the great central point whence missionaries to the Gentiles were sent forth. It was the birth-place of the famous Christian father Chrysostom, who died A.D. 407. It bears the modern name of Antakia, and is now a miserable, decaying Turkish town. Like Philippi, it was raised to the rank of a Roman colony. Such colonies were ruled by "praetors" (R.V. marg., Acts 16:20, 21).

Genesis 7

1And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth


the dietary laws are not a Jewish law it is a law from God.

there was no Jew around when the dietary law was given.

was Noah a Jew or israleite?

You do not know that "clean" in those verses refered to eating.

Gen 9.3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

That was to all mankind before the Jews.  The specific dietary laws in Leviticus are for JEWS ONLY.

Acts 15 lists what 'laws' gentile believers in Jesus need to keep:

19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

The only dietary restriction is from strangled meat. (can't drain the blood properly)

: DaveW  Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 12:07:38
You do not know that "clean" in those verses refered to eating.

Gen 9.3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

That was to all mankind before the Jews.  The specific dietary laws in Leviticus are for JEWS ONLY.

Acts 15 lists what 'laws' gentile believers in Jesus need to keep:

19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

The only dietary restriction is from strangled meat. (can't drain the blood properly)

Your statement is simply not true especially in light of the fact that you saw fit to capitalize the words "JEWS ONLY". The dietary laws are given to ALL ISRAEL. Judah is only one tribe out of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Leviticus 11:1-2 KJV
1.  And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
2.  Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

Yeshua says he is not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel:

Matthew 10:5-7 KJV
5.  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6.  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7.  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

THEN HE SAYS THIS:

Matthew 15:10-28 KJV
10.  And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11.  Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12.  Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13.  But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14.  Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15.  Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16.  And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17.  Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18.  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19.  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20.  These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
21.  Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22.  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23.  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24.  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25.  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26.  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27.  And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28.  Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And [also] her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Yeshua has effectively changed (from our perspective not his) the meaning of what it truly means to be an Israelite. The Canaanite woman of Tyre was grafted into the Jer.11:16 and Rom.11 Olive Tree of YHWH and House of Israel by FAITH because she changed her mindset, was willing to become a "dog", was willing to sit at the feet of the Master and eat only the "crumbs" of his DOCTRINES which fell from his table, and even worship was not enough, (and even Nicodemus, who "came by night" seeking crumbs of wisdom, had to do the same). Therefore the dietary laws are not "abolished" or "of no effect" but rather they are become SPIRIT according to the interpretations of them given by the Master Interpreter of Torah in the Gospel accounts.

John 6:63 KJV
63.  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

: howard  Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 07:10:04

: Debbie_55  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 14:28:53

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 21:05:22
the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there 

Please reread vs. 4 and 5 and if you want to live by the law by all means please do, but also remember if you break even one you are guilty of breaking them all. I will live by grace instead because I know I am not perfected as of yet and will not be until the coming of the Lord and the law is not of faith nor does it have have any salvation provision in it.


Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

: daq  Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 13:46:10
Your statement is simply not true especially in light of the fact that you saw fit to capitalize the words "JEWS ONLY". The dietary laws are given to ALL ISRAEL. Judah is only one tribe out of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

And Paul described himself as a JEW of the tribe of Benjamin.

I am using the term the same way he did.

Acts 21:39 But Paul said, " I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people.

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there

Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

That does not say anything one way or another about gentile christians.

: DaveW  Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 12:07:38
You do not know that "clean" in those verses refered to eating.

Gen 9.3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.

That was to all mankind before the Jews.  The specific dietary laws in Leviticus are for JEWS ONLY.

Acts 15 lists what 'laws' gentile believers in Jesus need to keep:

19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

The only dietary restriction is from strangled meat. (can't drain the blood properly)

maybe this verse will increase your understanding

Genesis 8:20
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

the clean beast and unclean beast was established in Noah's day, not Moses Day.

what is the dietary restriction of strangled meat?

: Debbie_55  Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 15:30:58

: howard  Mon Nov 07, 2011 - 07:10:04

: Debbie_55  Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 14:28:53

: howard  Thu Nov 03, 2011 - 21:05:22
the Jesus of the bible has a dietary law and it has not changed. for those who don't keep the dietary  are you sure that you are serving the Jesus of the bible

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there 

Please reread vs. 4 and 5 and if you want to live by the law by all means please do, but also remember if you break even one you are guilty of breaking them all. I will live by grace instead because I know I am not perfected as of yet and will not be until the coming of the Lord and the law is not of faith nor does it have have any salvation provision in it.


Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

in Galatians is Paul speaking of the commandments or the law of animal sacrifce?

in the commandments a curse?

How did a man get hung on the tree?

what did the man break to get hung on the tree?

if you break one you break them all and if you break one the Lord said long after Jesus death and resurrection

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


if a man sin or break one of the commandments he has a advocate who is Jesus

in other words repent

also the same Paul in Galatian is the same Paul who said this in Romans

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

and Paul said this

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

so I think Galatians need to be reexamined because Paul is not talking about the commandments in it, but the law of animal sacrifice

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there

Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

That does not say anything one way or another about gentile christians.

timothy is a greek

Timothy father was greek his mother was Jew''the man carries the seed which makes Timothy a greek

Acts 16:1
Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

the first lesson Jesus teaches us is that of the seed


Genesis 1:10-12

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.



Gen 17v9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53

for those who believe in Leviticus 11 and know that Levitcus 11 is true, for the Lord sanctified what we can and cannot eat in Leviticus 11

Read Leviticus 11

now where does it say we can eat anything in 1Timothy?

its not there

Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

That does not say anything one way or another about gentile christians.

if we use your logic then abraham and the stranger in his house hold where Jews.
 
Abraham and his household kept the law and were circumcised

lets read the bible

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.



Genesis 17
9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

10This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant


was abraham and the STRANGER jews, isrealites?

your logic is not bible based.

the dietary laws has nothing to do with being a Jew or Israelite.

The Dietary laws were in place when Noah came across the flood

man did not eat meat and men did not kill animals for food.

why did the Lord have Noah sacrifice clean beast and not unclean beast.?

what is a clean animal and what is a unclean animal?

if you are told that the dietary laws are not to be kept are you serving Jesus?

do you really think Jesus ate unclean foods?

: howard  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:47:42maybe this verse will increase your understanding

Genesis 8:20
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

the clean beast and unclean beast was established in Noah's day, not Moses Day.

what is the dietary restriction of strangled meat?

I would say that "clean" and "unclean" were probably known during the life of Adam and Cain.  But until the Exodus we do not see that stipulation being used for food. It would seem from the texts that it showed what was acceptable for sacrifice and what was not. Indeed, before Noah no flesh was considered food. Before Genesis 9.3 only vegatation was considered fit for human consumption.

Here is where the prohibition on strangled meat comes from:

Acts 15.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

: howard  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 07:03:12

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

timothy is a greek

Timothy father was greek his mother was Jew''the man carries the seed which makes Timothy a greek

You are looking at that from a modern western viewpoint.  Judaism since about that time has been matrilineal (from the mother) instead of from the father. Thus following Genesis "the seed of the woman." Paul writes to Timothy and mentions him following the faith of his mother and grandmother (both Jews) and Paul circ's him which makes him fully Jewish.

The Dietary laws were in place when Noah came across the flood

The only dietary law in place before and during the flood was to eat vegetables only.

why did the Lord have Noah sacrifice clean beast and not unclean beast.?

Unrecorded.

what is a clean animal and what is a unclean animal?

Unrecorded until Moses wrote Leviticus

if you are told that the dietary laws are not to be kept are you serving Jesus?

It depends on whether you are Jewish (Israelite) or not.

do you really think Jesus ate unclean foods?

He did not as He is Jewish.

was abraham and the STRANGER jews, isrealites?

your logic is not bible based.

Abraham was the first Hebrew and his house after him.

In current parlance we could call them Jews and not be far from mark.  Definately a father of the Jews.

In Christ Jesus there is neither greek nor jew so
nationality does not matter. But in every nation he that fears (respects) God and works righteousness is accepted with him Acts 10v35.

: Beta  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:46:34
In Christ Jesus there is neither greek nor jew so
nationality does not matter. But in every nation he that fears (respects) God and works righteousness is accepted with him Acts 10v35.

Then explain Acts 21.20-26.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,
23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.
24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.

Several weeks ago our Rabbi Mike Rudolph gave a message on Paul's supposed anti-torah verses.  He and Rabbi Dan Juster have been working on a book together on the Torah commands. The portions have been posted as they finish them on the Tikkun website.

I see that the chapter is now posted.  A brief quote:

But as we seek the Holy Spirit for how to keep the Law, we are hindered by ever-present "elephants in the room". The "elephants" of which I speak are the well-known writings of the Apostle Paul which seem to say that obeying the Mosaic Law is no longer profitable and may even cause spiritual harm. I knew it was not so, but because I have had to restudy and rethink Paul's statements every time someone raised them to me in debate, I decided to write this short verse-by-verse commentary in order to express concisely what I believe Paul really meant in his writings.

In reading further, each numbered caption is a statement one frequently hears from opponents of observing the Law. Following each caption are the Scriptures, authored by Paul, that are most often used to support the erroneous view. After that comes my commentary.

 
We No Longer Have to Obey the Law Because We Are Now Under Grace 
We Are Justified by Faith & Not by the Law, So the Deeds of the Law Have No Value.  We Are Now Dead to the Law, Having Been Delivered from It.   
The Mosaic Law is a Curse, and Those Who Seek to Obey It Are Under Its Curse.   
It No Longer Matters What We Eat, or Drink, or Whether We Keep God's Special Days.  The Mosaic Law was Defective & Is Now Obsolete. 
The Mosaic Law is a Ministry of Death, So Literal Observance of It Kills. 
The Mosaic Law was Done Away With by Messiah, So All We Need Do Now is Love Our Neighbor.

http://www.tikkunamerica.org/halachah/intro-mr3c.php

Now remember this was written to JEWS, not gentiles in the regular church. However the doctrine holds even if you from the gentile groups are not held to it.

most people don't understand that you have a role in saving yourself

Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.



Ezekiel 14

12The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

13Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

14Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 10:28:07

: Beta  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:46:34
In Christ Jesus there is neither greek nor jew so
nationality does not matter. But in every nation he that fears (respects) God and works righteousness is accepted with him Acts 10v35.

Then explain Acts 21.20-26.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come,
23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow.
24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.
25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.

: DaveW  Thu Nov 10, 2011 - 08:52:05
Several weeks ago our Rabbi Mike Rudolph gave a message on Paul's supposed anti-torah verses.  He and Rabbi Dan Juster have been working on a book together on the Torah commands. The portions have been posted as they finish them on the Tikkun website.

I see that the chapter is now posted.  A brief quote:

But as we seek the Holy Spirit for how to keep the Law, we are hindered by ever-present "elephants in the room". The "elephants" of which I speak are the well-known writings of the Apostle Paul which seem to say that obeying the Mosaic Law is no longer profitable and may even cause spiritual harm. I knew it was not so, but because I have had to restudy and rethink Paul's statements every time someone raised them to me in debate, I decided to write this short verse-by-verse commentary in order to express concisely what I believe Paul really meant in his writings.

In reading further, each numbered caption is a statement one frequently hears from opponents of observing the Law. Following each caption are the Scriptures, authored by Paul, that are most often used to support the erroneous view. After that comes my commentary.

 
We No Longer Have to Obey the Law Because We Are Now Under Grace 
We Are Justified by Faith & Not by the Law, So the Deeds of the Law Have No Value.  We Are Now Dead to the Law, Having Been Delivered from It.   
The Mosaic Law is a Curse, and Those Who Seek to Obey It Are Under Its Curse.   
It No Longer Matters What We Eat, or Drink, or Whether We Keep God's Special Days.  The Mosaic Law was Defective & Is Now Obsolete. 
The Mosaic Law is a Ministry of Death, So Literal Observance of It Kills. 
The Mosaic Law was Done Away With by Messiah, So All We Need Do Now is Love Our Neighbor.

http://www.tikkunamerica.org/halachah/intro-mr3c.php

Now remember this was written to JEWS, not gentiles in the regular church. However the doctrine holds even if you from the gentile groups are not held to it.

was cain a Jew, Gentile, Hamite, Shemite? he was niether

but Cain knew what sin was because God told him what sin was

Genesis 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


why would mention sin to cain f cain did not know what sin was?

how did cain(man) know what sin is?

God gave his words to man(word of mouth) eventually he had it written down when Israel came along

   

Genesis 5:22
And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


how did non- Jews, non nationalities walk with God when the languages and nations had not been set up yet?

author=DaveW link=topic=58777.msg1054632994#msg1054632994 date=1320766697]
The Dietary laws were in place when Noah came across the flood

The only dietary law in place before and during the flood was to eat vegetables only.

wrong

the dietary laws were always in place
the Lord had not given them to man because before the flood man did not eat meat.

why did the Lord have Noah sacrifice clean beast and not unclean beast.?
Unrecorded.
what is a clean animal and what is a unclean animal?

Unrecorded until Moses wrote Leviticus

not so

how did Noah know about it? God told him

so 8 people knew about them.

if you are told that the dietary laws are not to be kept are you serving Jesus?
It depends on whether you are Jewish (Israelite) or not.

Noah was not a Jew or Israelite, nor his son's

so the law was given to MAN.

do you really think Jesus ate unclean foods?
He did not as He is Jewish.

Colossians 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

will you not walk as Jesus walked because he is Jewish?

author=howard link=topic=58777.msg1054632971#msg1054632971 date=1320756462]maybe this verse will increase your understanding

Genesis 8:20
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

the clean beast and unclean beast was established in Noah's day, not Moses Day.

what is the dietary restriction of strangled meat?[

I would say that "clean" and "unclean" were probably known during the life of Adam and Cain.  But until the Exodus we do not see that stipulation being used for food. It would seem from the texts that it showed what was acceptable for sacrifice and what was not. Indeed, before Noah no flesh was considered food. Before Genesis 9.3 only vegatation was considered fit for human consumption.

yet

the dietary laws were there because Jesus was there

just like sin

sin was around before a jew or israelite

this one scriptures tell it all

Jesus who is the lamb of God and also a Jew has been around from the foundation of the world

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:31:31

: howard  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 07:03:12

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 06:08:53Um - Timothy was a Jew - Paul circ'd him. (thereby obligating him to the WHOLE LAW)  Of course Paul would NOT tell Timothy to eat just anything.

timothy is a greek

Timothy father was greek his mother was Jew''the man carries the seed which makes Timothy a greek

You are looking at that from a modern western viewpoint.  Judaism since about that time has been matrilineal (from the mother) instead of from the father. Thus following Genesis "the seed of the woman." Paul writes to Timothy and mentions him following the faith of his mother and grandmother (both Jews) and Paul circ's him which makes him fully Jewish.

Brother Dave

a woman don't carry a seed

Mary is the only woman that had a seed and it did not come from man.

who is the authourity God or man?

man carries the seed even today

man sperm is the seed

the woman is the ground

Acts 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

man has changed the order of things but we know better

the order of things was setup in Genesis 1

Genesis 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 1:25
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


man puts his seed(sperm) in the woman(ground) it is after HIS kind.

not her kind

: DaveW  Tue Nov 08, 2011 - 09:41:56

was abraham and the STRANGER jews, isrealites?

your logic is not bible based.

Abraham was the first Hebrew and his house after him.

In current parlance we could call them Jews and not be far from mark.  Definately a father of the Jews.

abraham was not a jew. nor has the stranger in his House

yet before the commandments, dietary laws etc was written down

we read

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham knew the law and even the circumcision he event taught the stranger

lets look at something else

the egyptians knew the law before a jew or israelite was born

Genesis 12


9And Abram journeyed, going on still toward the south.

10And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.

11And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:

12Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.

13Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

14And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.

15The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaoh's house.

16And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.

17And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.

18And Pharaoh called Abram and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?

19Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

20And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had.



 

Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


the saints will get war made against them, if you don't get war made against you are you really serving God

are you tried, have you endured temptation?


James 1:12

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.


this is steps in obtaining our crown of life

there is no such thing as osas, we must endure every day.

if you have not had any problems in your life after you acceptance of Jesus and understanding his word, are you really serving Jesus?

think about

Listen very carefully to what the Master is saying here.

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Look at verse 35 in Mark, For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. What life are you losing?

That sinful life.

If you pick up his cross and bare it, you put off that old man and put on the knew.

Verse 36, For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? R

Remember you cannot take anything with you into the next life.

What shall you give in exchange for eternal life in the GOD family?

 Here are some brothers that stood their ground.

Look also who is doing the persecuting.

Nothing has changed.

Acts 5


17Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,

18And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison.

19But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,

20Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

21And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.

22But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned and told,

23Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.

24Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.

25Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.

26Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.

27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

33When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

40And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

41And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

42And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

The high priest had the brothers beaten and wanted to kill them.

Why?

They preached in the name of JESUS.

You also saw how the angel of the LORD saved them out of prison.

When they were freed by the angel, what did they do?

They went back into the temple and preached JESUS. After they were beaten, what did they do?

Verse 41, And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for HIS name.

Can you handle that?

are you serving Jesus?

You now should clearly understand these verses that the Master is saying here.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?

Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?

Look and see who the LORD considers family members.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and
sister, and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.


these example and commands from Jesus is what we use to see if we are serving Jesus

: howard  Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 22:28:42
You now should clearly understand these verses that the Master is saying here.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?

Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?

Look and see who the LORD considers family members.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and
sister, and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.


these example and commands from Jesus is what we use to see if we are serving Jesus

Howard---

I appreciate what you are saying.  But I do have to remind you that the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses renounce family and life pursuits to "follow the Lord" also. But are they serving Jesus?  They think they are. The Mormons even give up two years of their life to "go on a mission".  They are laughed at, scoffed at, have doors shut on them, and spend hours doing "good works".  And they are very sincere!  But they are sincerely wrong.

They look at their own service as proof that they love and serve the Lord.  They are actually putting their trust in their own works and sacrifice rather than in the Finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ. If you try to gauge "serving Jesus" based on works that you are doing, or hours you are putting in, you are not really serving Christ at all.

Instead of asking "are you sure you are serving Jesus"  a better question would be "are you sure you have been born-again?"  Because true service actually results FROM salvation, rather than looking to our works as a way leading TO salvation.

: fish153  Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 23:03:33

: howard  Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 22:28:42
You now should clearly understand these verses that the Master is saying here.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?

Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?

Look and see who the LORD considers family members.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and
sister, and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.


these example and commands from Jesus is what we use to see if we are serving Jesus

Howard---

I appreciate what you are saying.  But I do have to remind you that the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses renounce family and life pursuits to "follow the Lord" also. But are they serving Jesus?  They think they are. The Mormons even give up two years of their life to "go on a mission".  They are laughed at, scoffed at, have doors shut on them, and spend hours doing "good works".  And they are very sincere!  But they are sincerely wrong.

They look at their own service as proof that they love and serve the Lord.  They are actually putting their trust in their own works and sacrifice rather than in the Finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ. If you try to gauge "serving Jesus" based on works that you are doing, or hours you are putting in, you are not really serving Christ at all.

Instead of asking "are you sure you are serving Jesus"  a better question would be "are you sure you have been born-again?"  Because true service actually results FROM salvation, rather than looking to our works as a way leading TO salvation.

Hi Fish

where in the bible did the Lord tell the Mormons or JW to do it the way they do?

at the end of the day when the Lord return will they make the cut(eternal life) or will the Lord tell them to depart from him?

these entities have the same question as we do who belong to denominations or not are we really serving Jesus?

as concerning born again

Peter said

Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

who on this site be they Mormon or JW are of the incorruptible seed?

if any here let them do as Jesus commanded below

John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

if you are in sin and commit sin you are corruptible

who will cast the first stone?

   

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

all have sinned

who will cast the first stone?

if you are born again cast the stone

because your are a incorruptible seed.

are you really serving Jesus if you are born again then it is a mystery

Paul said

1Corithians 15

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


when did you put on incorruption?

when you became born again what was you born again to what?

are you flesh and blood which you were born into or when was you born from flesh to something else?

when did this happen?

born again into what?

everyone here was born of a woman

when did you again become born?

this truly is a mystery?

this is why my post question the status quo

something don't make sense

Definition of BORN

a: brought forth by or as if by birth


again

: in return : back

another time : once more : anew

born again

to bring forth once more

every one here is flesh

when was you brought forth once more?

Great posts howard

but rather lost on those who claim to be already 'born again.
They have already 'got it all.... in the flesh !

: howard  Fri Nov 11, 2011 - 23:59:25
when you became born again what was you born again to what?

are you flesh and blood which you were born into or when was you born from flesh to something else?

when did this happen?

born again into what?

everyone here was born of a woman

when did you again become born?

this truly is a mystery?

this is why my post question the status quo

something don't make sense

Definition of BORN

a: brought forth by or as if by birth


again

: in return : back

another time : once more : anew

born again

to bring forth once more

every one here is flesh

when was you brought forth once more?

perhaps your questions would be best asked of Christ, since the concept is His.

John 3
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.

: MeMyself  Sat Nov 12, 2011 - 08:42:18
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

I love the good news of God's word!  ::clappingoverhead:: We are assured that we are not condemned if we believe in the name of God's one and only Son!  No matter what "tests" "well meaning" others may present us with.  There is only one test according to Christ, disbelieve in Him and be condemned, or believe in Him and there is no condemnation.  ::amen!::

Howard/Beta--

Go back and read John chapter 3.  Nicodemus asks the same question, as memyself has pointed out.  Jesus says you must be born again, and Nicodemus says "how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"  He was thinking in purely natural terms----just as you are!

Being born-again is a spiritual regeneration----an invisible second birth---though the results of that new birth can be clearly seen. You cannot "see" the Kingdom of God without this rebirth.  Without regeneration one will be only "religious" and will follow the letter without having the Spirit.  Jesus said "You MUST be born-again".

: fish153  Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 00:05:02
Howard/Beta--

Go back and read John chapter 3.  Nicodemus asks the same question, as memyself has pointed out.  Jesus says you must be born again, and Nicodemus says "how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"  He was thinking in purely natural terms----just as you are!

Being born-again is a spiritual regeneration----an invisible second birth---though the results of that new birth can be clearly seen. You cannot "see" the Kingdom of God without this rebirth.  Without regeneration one will be only "religious" and will follow the letter without having the Spirit.  Jesus said "You MUST be born-again".

fish

I read that verse a 1000 times

what I understand is this

John 3

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


a person born again is like the wind we cannot tell when it comes or where it goes

are you like this?

we know that those who where killed in the wilderness will not be raised up when Jesus return at the first resurrection.

Hebrews 3

13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

How is it that the people in the wilderness had the same Gospel that Paul and we have?
Hebrews 4

1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.  

How is it that the people in the wilderness had the same Gospel that Paul and we have?
???

Hebrews 4

1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

this same Gospel that the children of Israel had and we have lets read some more on what happened to them

1 Corinthians 10

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


Not only did the children of Israel have the same Gospel as we do, they have the saqme God Jesus as we do

yet they did not believe in Jesus or his Gospel

why is the people in Noah days and the people in Sodom days an example to us in these NT days?


2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.



surely the Lord is trying to tell us something, these example are a reminder that to us.

   

: howard  Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 11:23:44

: fish153  Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 00:05:02
Howard/Beta--

Go back and read John chapter 3.  Nicodemus asks the same question, as memyself has pointed out.  Jesus says you must be born again, and Nicodemus says "how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"  He was thinking in purely natural terms----just as you are!

Being born-again is a spiritual regeneration----an invisible second birth---though the results of that new birth can be clearly seen. You cannot "see" the Kingdom of God without this rebirth.  Without regeneration one will be only "religious" and will follow the letter without having the Spirit.  Jesus said "You MUST be born-again".

fish

I read that verse a 1000 times

what I understand is this

John 3

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


a person born again is like the wind we cannot tell when it comes or where it goes

are you like this?

Howard---

Yes.  The verse is saying you can hear and see the effects of the wind, though you cannot see the wind itself.  Those born of the Spirit show the "effects" of the new birth in their lives----they are completely changed.  But you could never physically show someone what changed you----The Holy Spirit enters and changes our very hearts----but He cannot be seen.  I was Born-again when I was 17 years old, and the change was so drastic people knew something had happened to me---all I could say is that God had entered my life---the Holy Spirit had entered my heart.

: fish153  Mon Nov 14, 2011 - 12:25:22

: howard  Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 11:23:44

: fish153  Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 00:05:02
Howard/Beta--

Go back and read John chapter 3.  Nicodemus asks the same question, as memyself has pointed out.  Jesus says you must be born again, and Nicodemus says "how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"  He was thinking in purely natural terms----just as you are!

Being born-again is a spiritual regeneration----an invisible second birth---though the results of that new birth can be clearly seen. You cannot "see" the Kingdom of God without this rebirth.  Without regeneration one will be only "religious" and will follow the letter without having the Spirit.  Jesus said "You MUST be born-again".

I read that verse a 1000 times

what I understand is this

John 3

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


a person born again is like the wind we cannot tell when it comes or where it goes

are you like this?

Howard---

Yes.  The verse is saying you can hear and see the effects of the wind, though you cannot see the wind itself.  Those born of the Spirit show the "effects" of the new birth in their lives----they are completely changed.  But you could never physically show someone what changed you----The Holy Spirit enters and changes our very hearts----but He cannot be seen.  I was Born-again when I was 17 years old, and the change was so drastic people knew something had happened to me---all I could say is that God had entered my life---the Holy Spirit had entered my heart.

I will ask the same qeustion that nicodemus asked

  4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

are you the first man to enter in to your mother womb to be born again

or are you like the wind? Here in the windy city chicago the wind bloweth constantly are you like it.

here is what happened to you at 17

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

   

: fish153  Sun Nov 13, 2011 - 00:05:02
Howard/Beta--

Go back and read John chapter 3.  Nicodemus asks the same question, as memyself has pointed out.  Jesus says you must be born again, and Nicodemus says "how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"  He was thinking in purely natural terms----just as you are!

Being born-again is a spiritual regeneration----an invisible second birth---though the results of that new birth can be clearly seen. You cannot "see" the Kingdom of God without this rebirth.  Without regeneration one will be only "religious" and will follow the letter without having the Spirit.  Jesus said "You MUST be born-again".

when where you regenerated?

are you flesh or are you in the spirit?

if you are spirit yhrn you are like the wind, I can't see the wind here in the windy city

John 3
1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


who among you here is born of a incorruptible seed?

only Jesus and the heavenly Father is incorruptible

have any here been born of them?

are you hated by nations and men for Jesus name or are you love by everyone in Jesus name?

Matthew 24:9
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Hebrews 11

1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


these OT people served God even with there lives.

and they wont be born again(made perfect) without us.