A person who sins is not a Christian.
(Romans 6:11) "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 10:19:26
A person who sins is not a Christian.
This statement is a "sin"...a blatant lie from the pit of hell.
Examine yourself...you just lied; and that is a big fat ugly ruthless sin.
A Spiritual Christian will not deliberately commit a sin.
giver,
We all sin and we all do it deliberately even if we dont want to in our heart.
1. Definition of sin is to not love our neighbor as ourself (Gods Law) 1 John 3:4.
2. When Jesus met the Young Rich Man he told Jesus he did not sin. (Many think like that)
To test him Jesus told him to give ALL he had to the poor and follow Him. The YRM deliberately did not.
We all know we would spend our last dime for ourself if we were hungry, diseased or naked.
Yet even as Christians we see this in the news and TV all the time. Yet do we give our last dime to feed, clothe and heal
these people? NO. We deliberately withold so we can live very well even though others starve and die of disease.
So it is proven we do NOT love our neighbor as ourself and we do it deliberately.
Conslusion: Anyone who says they do not sin deliberately and yet withold their money and wealth from those in need is a
hypocrite. They know what Gods Law requires and they DELIBERATELY refuse to follow it. Peace, JohnR
: highrigger Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 10:40:54
A Spiritual Christian will not deliberately commit a sin.
giver,
We all sin and we all do it deliberately even if we dont want to in our heart.
1. Definition of sin is to not love our neighbor as ourself (Gods Law) 1 John 3:4.
2. When Jesus met the Young Rich Man he told Jesus he did not sin. (Many think like that)
To test him Jesus told him to give ALL he had to the poor and follow Him. The YRM deliberately did not.
We all know we would spend our last dime for ourself if we were hungry, diseased or naked.
Yet even as Christians we see this in the news and TV all the time. Yet do we give our last dime to feed, clothe and heal
these people? NO. We deliberately withold so we can live very well even though others starve and die of disease.
So it is proven we do NOT love our neighbor as ourself and we do it deliberately.
Conslusion: Anyone who says they do not sin deliberately and yet withold their money and wealth from those in need is a
hypocrite. They know what Gods Law requires and they DELIBERATELY refuse to follow it. Peace, JohnR
I agree any wrongdoing is a sin. Not all sin leads to death though. Knowing something is wrong and if that person is a Spiritual Christian, and willfully commits that sin; now that is death.
(1 John 5:17) "Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
Giver, are you a Christian?
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 18:52:05
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: cs80918 Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 19:36:30
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 18:52:05
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
Well if only people who are sinless after being saved will be in heaven there will be very few in heaven. Like less than 100. Maybe none.
None...is the correct answer...
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 18:52:05
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
People aren't sinless after being saved but the difference is that when a christian commits a sin they should feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit and feel remorseful and then repent.
Also a christian who practices willful sin and feels no conviction and has no desire to stop the sin.....I would have a huge question mark on that person.
A sinner lives in sin. That is his lifestyle. A Christian is not a sinner because he does not live in sin. I have sinned sense I got saved. However, I do not constantly repeat the same sin over and over again with no self-control.
When a Christian says the quaint little phrase "I am just a sinner saved by grace" he puts in his mind a subtle excuse to commit sin. On the other hand, when a Christian says "I am not a sinner, God has saved me from my sin, He has made me into a saint." He strives to live up to the standard of God and to live in holiness, without which no man shall see God.
If we commit a sin after the bloodline(salvation)we confess that sin and he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Never settle for less my brethren, always strive for holiness, and never allow yourself to think like a sinner. Rather think as a saint.
: RobWLarson Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 23:55:14
A sinner lives in sin. That is his lifestyle. A Christian is not a sinner because he does not live in sin. I have sinned sense I got saved. However, I do not constantly repeat the same sin over and over again with no self-control.
When a Christian says the quaint little phrase "I am just a sinner saved by grace" he puts in his mind a subtle excuse to commit sin. On the other hand, when a Christian says "I am not a sinner, God has saved me from my sin, He has made me into a saint." He strives to live up to the standard of God and to live in holiness, without which no man shall see God.
If we commit a sin after the bloodline(salvation)we confess that sin and he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Never settle for less my brethren, always strive for holiness, and never allow yourself to think like a sinner. Rather think as a saint.
Amen on the "always strive for holiness" comment and thinking as a saint. With those ideals in our minds I think the tendency to sin is considerably lessoned. I have something in my life that I'm working to overcome and especially thinking of the holiness aspect helps me deal more effectively with it.
: Ladonia Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 00:09:17
: RobWLarson Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 23:55:14
A sinner lives in sin. That is his lifestyle. A Christian is not a sinner because he does not live in sin. I have sinned sense I got saved. However, I do not constantly repeat the same sin over and over again with no self-control.
When a Christian says the quaint little phrase "I am just a sinner saved by grace" he puts in his mind a subtle excuse to commit sin. On the other hand, when a Christian says "I am not a sinner, God has saved me from my sin, He has made me into a saint." He strives to live up to the standard of God and to live in holiness, without which no man shall see God.
If we commit a sin after the bloodline(salvation)we confess that sin and he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Never settle for less my brethren, always strive for holiness, and never allow yourself to think like a sinner. Rather think as a saint.
Amen on the "always strive for holiness" comment and thinking as a saint. With those ideals in our minds I think the tendency to sin is considerably lessoned. I have something in my life that I'm working to overcome and especially thinking of the holiness aspect helps me deal more effectively with it.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: Sinead Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 23:16:18
People aren't sinless after being saved but the difference is that when a christian commits a sin they should feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit and feel remorseful and then repent.
Also a christian who practices willful sin and feels no conviction and has no desire to stop the sin.....I would have a huge question mark on that person.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.
Notice what Hebrews says? "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins
I asked you a question Giver, which you failed to answer. Are you a Christian?
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 22:36:56
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 18:52:05
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: Giver Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 10:08:42
There is not an organized/denominational Church today that is teaching the whole Word of God.
Another lie from the pit of hell...
We cannot trust one word you say...you are full of lies (sin) that has you blinded to the whole Word of God...
You yourself are stuck on about 10 verses...
: cs80918 Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 19:36:30
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 18:52:05
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: Giver Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 13:41:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 19:36:30
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 18:52:05
: Ladonia Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 14:09:04
I am a Christian. I am a sinner. I try not to sin, but it happens. I repent and Christ then forgives. When I die, my advocate will be Christ. Him and me before the Father.
I know the Catholic Church tell you that and you believe it is true. The written Word of God does not tell you what the Church teaches. Jesus did not personally tell me what you believe. By the way the Church did not always teach what you now believe, and what it now teaches. There is a Saint who reminded the Church of that and they cut his tongue and right arm off to stop him from reminding them.
A Christian who sins is of the devil. Now you should take note, John told us that.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
Giver he who says he has not sin is a liar and the truth is not in him. That is what the Bible says. If you sin after having been saved, and you confess that sin then he is faithful and just to forgive you that sin and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness...again.
Apparantly Giver has reached a state of perfection and that is quite a feat because the last person I've heard about who had reached that level was................Jesus Christ!
: RobWLarson Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 18:41:44
Giver he who says he has not sin is a liar and the truth is not in him. That is what the Bible says. If you sin after having been saved, and you confess that sin then he is faithful and just to forgive you that sin and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness...again.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: Ladonia Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 19:16:49
Apparantly Giver has reached a state of perfection and that is quite a feat because the last person I've heard about who had reached that level was................Jesus Christ!
You should know that Jesus called us to be perfect as the Father is perfect. If Jesus called us to be perfect don't you think he would have given us the means to become perfect?
(Matthew 5:48) "Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.
And what does Jesus say in this matter before us? In Luke 17:3-4 Our Lord says:
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Likewise Christ answers again in Matt 18:21-22 the following:
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
I vote for forgiveness whenever one is repentant. Christ will do no less when it comes to us and our own sins.
Isn't this something like flaming everybody...Ahm jus' sayin ::shrug::
Anyway the topic would be good for a laugh or two...
... if it were not so sad in its premise
Was not Peter rebuked by Paul for allowing a certain amount of prejudice back into his life? Was Mark at one point become a coward and left the ministry for a time, only to come back, resulting in the great Apostle Paul refusing to give him a second chance, and in the end of Paul's life he asked for Mark to be sent to him, because he was of great value to him?
The difference between a sinner and a Christian is this, a sinner is in bondage to his sin. He cannot escape for his addictions, and his lusts. A Christian is not bond to sin. He serves a different master. However, in the rare times that he makes a mistake, that he does sin, he can go back to Jesus and receive forgiveness once again, and God then forgives him and he is released from any sort of bondage to it.
To say that you never sin, ever, you are calling God a liar and the truth is not in you.
topics like this always make me want to sigh and say 'Oh no not again' The bible is clear that we are all sinners and we will never be perfect until we get to heaven. Paul says "WE HAVE ALL FALLEN SHORT" All means all. Simple. Even a little child could understand that.
"IF we say that we are without sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is NOT in us" The Bible says. Therefore is anyone says that they are without sin, they are decieved and have no truth in them. They have the sins of pride and arrogance for a start.
: Ladonia Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 20:15:38
And what does Jesus say in this matter before us? In Luke 17:3-4 Our Lord says:
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Likewise Christ answers again in Matt 18:21-22 the following:
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
I vote for forgiveness whenever one is repentant. Christ will do no less when it comes to us and our own sins.
Did your brother die on the cross for you? Did your brother give you the Holy Spirit, and grace to not sin? Yes forgive your brother, but Jesus is your God, and he expects you to obey him.
: RobWLarson Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 00:23:21
Was not Peter rebuked by Paul for allowing a certain amount of prejudice back into his life? Was Mark at one point become a coward and left the ministry for a time, only to come back, resulting in the great Apostle Paul refusing to give him a second chance, and in the end of Paul's life he asked for Mark to be sent to him, because he was of great value to him?
The difference between a sinner and a Christian is this, a sinner is in bondage to his sin. He cannot escape for his addictions, and his lusts. A Christian is not bond to sin. He serves a different master. However, in the rare times that he makes a mistake, that he does sin, he can go back to Jesus and receive forgiveness once again, and God then forgives him and he is released from any sort of bondage to it.
To say that you never sin, ever, you are calling God a liar and the truth is not in you.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: chosenone Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 03:31:36
topics like this always make me want to sigh and say 'Oh no not again' The bible is clear that we are all sinners and we will never be perfect until we get to heaven. Paul says "WE HAVE ALL FALLEN SHORT" All means all. Simple. Even a little child could understand that.
"IF we say that we are without sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is NOT in us" The Bible says. Therefore is anyone says that they are without sin, they are decieved and have no truth in them. They have the sins of pride and arrogance for a start.
A sinner needs to find something to make him or her feel righteous. So saying the bible says we are all sinners then gives them an excuse to keep on sinning. Also it helps to paint everyone black who shares that one can, and is required by God, to live without sinning.
I will give you some verses that describe someone who sin. These verses were written by a person whom Jesus taught while he was here the first time. Just so you don't think I made them up.
(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
Giver, let me give you something - the definition of the main words translated 'sin' in our english versions.
In both testaments the words are archery terms (actually "sin" was an archery term also in middle and elizabethan english) meaning to miss the target, to not reach the target, to TRY and AIM but not make it.
So unless you absoutly hit the center of God's ultimate will and glory 100% of the time, you are sinning.
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 06:49:24
Giver, let me give you something - the definition of the main words translated 'sin' in our english versions.
In both testaments the words are archery terms (actually "sin" was an archery term also in middle and elizabethan english) meaning to miss the target, to not reach the target, to TRY and AIM but not make it.
So unless you absoutly hit the center of God's ultimate will and glory 100% of the time, you are sinning.
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 06:49:24
Giver, let me give you something - the definition of the main words translated 'sin' in our english versions.
In both testaments the words are archery terms (actually "sin" was an archery term also in middle and elizabethan english) meaning to miss the target, to not reach the target, to TRY and AIM but not make it.
So unless you absoutly hit the center of God's ultimate will and glory 100% of the time, you are sinning.
Dave, the Holy Spirit lets one know when he or she sins or is about to sin. God leads one on the narrow path, and will let a person know if he or she is about to fall off that path.
Sin is any wrongdoing, and God will make sure one of his will not do anything wrong. Some wrongdoings do not lead to death, and are human errors that come from hurts, and those wrongdoings take some healings, which may only be healed over time.
John told us about sins that don't lead to death.
(1 John 5: 17) "If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
The wrongdoing/sin that leads to death, and the sin this thread is addressing, is one where a person knows an act is wrong, and willingly commits the act.
A sinner is of Satan, if one deliberately sins he or she does not know God, and they are of the devil.
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 06:03:44
: chosenone Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 03:31:36
topics like this always make me want to sigh and say 'Oh no not again' The bible is clear that we are all sinners and we will never be perfect until we get to heaven. Paul says "WE HAVE ALL FALLEN SHORT" All means all. Simple. Even a little child could understand that.
"IF we say that we are without sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is NOT in us" The Bible says. Therefore is anyone says that they are without sin, they are decieved and have no truth in them. They have the sins of pride and arrogance for a start.
A sinner needs to find something to make him or her feel righteous. So saying the bible says we are all sinners then gives them an excuse to keep on sinning. Also it helps to paint everyone black who shares that one can, and is required by God, to live without sinning.
I will give you some verses that describe someone who sin. These verses were written by a person whom Jesus taught while he was here the first time. Just so you dont think I made them up.
(1 John 3:9) No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because Gods seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
(1 John 5: 3-4) This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world.
(1 John 3:5-6) Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
(1 John 3:8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
Anyone who truly knows God would NEVER usea verse as an excuse to carry on sinning.
However the Bible is clear "If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is NOT IN US". How much more clear and easy to understand can it be?
Anyone who claims to never sin, is sinning by doing so, so that disproves that theory straight away!
: chosenone Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:36:36
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 06:03:44
: chosenone Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 03:31:36
topics like this always make me want to sigh and say 'Oh no not again' The bible is clear that we are all sinners and we will never be perfect until we get to heaven. Paul says "WE HAVE ALL FALLEN SHORT" All means all. Simple. Even a little child could understand that.
"IF we say that we are without sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is NOT in us" The Bible says. Therefore is anyone says that they are without sin, they are decieved and have no truth in them. They have the sins of pride and arrogance for a start.
A sinner needs to find something to make him or her feel righteous. So saying the bible says we are all sinners then gives them an excuse to keep on sinning. Also it helps to paint everyone black who shares that one can, and is required by God, to live without sinning.
I will give you some verses that describe someone who sin. These verses were written by a person whom Jesus taught while he was here the first time. Just so you dont think I made them up.
(1 John 3:9) No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because Gods seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
(1 John 5: 3-4) This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world.
(1 John 3:5-6) Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
(1 John 3:8) He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
Anyone who truly knows God would NEVER usea verse as an excuse to carry on sinning.
However the Bible is clear "If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is NOT IN US". How much more clear and easy to understand can it be?
Anyone who claims to never sin, is sinning by doing so, so that disproves that theory straight away!
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 05:51:11
: Ladonia Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 20:15:38
And what does Jesus say in this matter before us? In Luke 17:3-4 Our Lord says:
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Likewise Christ answers again in Matt 18:21-22 the following:
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
I vote for forgiveness whenever one is repentant. Christ will do no less when it comes to us and our own sins.
Did your brother die on the cross for you? Did your brother give you the Holy Spirit, and grace to not sin? Yes forgive your brother, but Jesus is your God, and he expects you to obey him.
If Jesus says that we are to forgive our brother "seventy times seven", do you really think that Jesus would turn around and do the exact opposite when it comes to us? No, I don't think so.
What we have here with the Scriptures you quote and the ones I quoted puts us in a quandary. Who do we believe, the Master or one of His followers? I'm going with the Master.
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:00:21
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 05:51:11
: Ladonia Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 20:15:38
And what does Jesus say in this matter before us? In Luke 17:3-4 Our Lord says:
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
Likewise Christ answers again in Matt 18:21-22 the following:
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
I vote for forgiveness whenever one is repentant. Christ will do no less when it comes to us and our own sins.
Did your brother die on the cross for you? Did your brother give you the Holy Spirit, and grace to not sin? Yes forgive your brother, but Jesus is your God, and he expects you to obey him.
If Jesus says that we are to forgive our brother "seventy times seven", do you really think that Jesus would turn around and do the exact opposite when it comes to us? No, I don't think so.
What we have here with the Scriptures you quote and the ones I quoted puts us in a quandary. Who do we believe, the Master or one of His followers? I'm going with the Master.
You should know your bible well enough to know that is exactly what God did. He does not allow sinners into the kingdom of Heaven. Also if one who knows him deliberately commits a sin there is no repentance for that person.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:51:26
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.
My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I personally only listen and follow my God.
Giver, you posted the following earlier in this thread.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:12:00
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:51:26
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.
My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I personally only listen and follow my God.
Well of course God would never lead you to sin, that is from Satan and we need to be on guard against the evil one.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:12:00: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:51:26
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.
My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I personally only listen and follow my God.
I will take that as a "no."
You are wrong. The answer is yes.
If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin. If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.
Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:45:02
Giver, you posted the following earlier in this thread.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:55:20
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:12:00: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:51:26
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.
My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I personally only listen and follow my God.
I will take that as a "no."
You are wrong. The answer is yes.
If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin. If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.
Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.
How wrong you are. The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation. Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation. Jesus guides everything I do. I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make.
Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 09:11:43
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:55:20
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:12:00: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:51:26
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.
My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I personally only listen and follow my God.
I will take that as a "no."
You are wrong. The answer is yes.
If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin. If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.
Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.
How wrong you are. The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation. Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation. Jesus guides everything I do. I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make.
Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?
I find this so fascinating! You really believe that you are sinless. Honest and for true? So, you are perfect, never hurt someone's feelings and need to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong", or speak from selfish ambition, or try and control situations, or are rude, or thoughtless? REALLY?! ::eatingpopcorn:
And, as for the "I ask Jesus about all decisions" bit...so what about split second decisions that have to be made say while driving? I believe in allowing God to have control over our lives, but to claim that every single decision is lead by the Lord just can't be true! AND Paul confessed in the word that he struggled with sin. Guess he wasn't a Christian either. Heaven is going to be a very lonely place for you, Giver.
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
: MeMyself Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 09:32:15
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 09:11:43
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:55:20
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:12:00: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:51:26
Is it possible to sin in obeying God?
My God has never led me to sin, and my God will never lead me to sin.
My God is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I personally only listen and follow my God.
I will take that as a "no."
You are wrong. The answer is yes.
If you do something to obey what is commanded in the bible or what you feel God is leading you to do that requires you to do something that you believe sinful, then you can get into a situation where you have no alternative but to sin. If you disobey God you sin by disobedience and if you obey, then you sin by doing something you do not have faith for.
Whatsoever is not from faith is sin.
How wrong you are. The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation. Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation. Jesus guides everything I do. I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make.
Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?
I find this so fascinating! You really believe that you are sinless. Honest and for true? So, you are perfect, never hurt someone's feelings and need to say "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong", or speak from selfish ambition, or try and control situations, or are rude, or thoughtless? REALLY?! ::eatingpopcorn:
And, as for the "I ask Jesus about all decisions" bit...so what about split second decisions that have to be made say while driving? I believe in allowing God to have control over our lives, but to claim that every single decision is lead by the Lord just can't be true! AND Paul confessed in the word that he struggled with sin. Guess he wasn't a Christian either. Heaven is going to be a very lonely place for you, Giver.
Early Christians knew what I have been sharing is the truth.
What I am sharing is a spiritual walk with God. It is foolishness to people who are not spiritual.
No person could or can live without sin unless he or she is being led and given the grace by God.
When a spiritual shares he or she does not sin, it is only giving glory to God, because only with God can one defeat Satan/sin.
The way one knows if he or she is spiritual is if they can live the whole Word of God, which includes not sinning.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 09:11:43How wrong you are. The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation. Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation. Jesus guides everything I do. I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make.
Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?
That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about when you sense God telling you to do something that you feel is wrong. (usually due to a false belief system)
For example - I had a pastor back in high school that before coming to faith was a drunk. One day God impressed on him to go to the bar he used to frequent years earlier and pass out tracts. But he believed and taught that even smelling alcohol met the biblical standard of "drunkenness" which is forbidden. Since he could not smell alcohol in biblical faith, to him it would truly be sinful.
How could he obey the leading of the Lord and not sin? He finally decided to hyperventilate and then hold his breath and run thru the place throwing tracts at every one. That way he would not smell the booze and lose his salvation.
That is one of the interesting quirks of the New Covenant - anything done in a lack of biblical faith is sinful. But the sin is a lack of faith, not necessarily the activity itself.
The thing about Johns letter is he states black and white statements, rather than write in detail about how many sins are acceptable etc, so he writes statements that the reader must figure things out for themselves. In some ways they are like ingridients that make up a recipe. If one of the ingridients is missing, the picture is not complete.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
: DaveW Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:53:51
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 09:11:43How wrong you are. The Holy Spirit/Jesus always lets me know what to do in any situation. Jesus once asked me to give him the first few moments of every situation. Jesus guides everything I do. I ask Jesus about all decisions that I make.
Remember Jesus said he would never let one be tempted beyond their ability to resist?
That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about when you sense God telling you to do something that you feel is wrong. (usually due to a false belief system)
For example - I had a pastor back in high school that before coming to faith was a drunk. One day God impressed on him to go to the bar he used to frequent years earlier and pass out tracts. But he believed and taught that even smelling alcohol met the biblical standard of "drunkenness" which is forbidden. Since he could not smell alcohol in biblical faith, to him it would truly be sinful.
How could he obey the leading of the Lord and not sin? He finally decided to hyperventilate and then hold his breath and run thru the place throwing tracts at every one. That way he would not smell the booze and lose his salvation.
That is one of the interesting quirks of the New Covenant - anything done in a lack of biblical faith is sinful. But the sin is a lack of faith, not necessarily the activity itself.
That situation comes about because one allows man to teach him or her about God.
The Holy Spirit/Jesus will teach one how to live the Word. A person does not need anyone to teach them about God.
Ask Jesus what to do in any situation and then do as he tells you.
(1 John 2:27) "But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.
: FireSword Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:54:58
The thing about Johns letter is he states black and white statements, rather than write in detail about how many sins are acceptable etc, so he writes statements that the reader must figure things out for themselves. In some ways they are like ingridients that make up a recipe. If one of the ingridients is missing, the picture is not complete.
The Holy Spirit once told me to tell people that no matter who tells them anything about God, be it a priest, bishop, or anyone they were to ask Jesus if it was right or wrong.
When one reads the Written Word of God, they need to ask Jesus what he wants them to understand about what they are reading.
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:12:17
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:12:17
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
I am afraid you have not read enough of the written Word.
Let me share something with you. When I accepted Jesus call to his ministry I was going to Mass and Communion every day. I had three babies at the time, the youngest was born blind and Jesus healed her. I though Jesus would want me to go to a seminary, so I asked him what one. I thought it would need to be a special seminary, because being married, and being a priest was not often allowed.
Jesus told me "NO! Don't read about me. I will teach you about me.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 12:06:07
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:12:17
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:12:17
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
I am afraid you have not read enough of the written Word.
Let me share something with you. When I accepted Jesus call to his ministry I was going to Mass and Communion every day. I had three babies at the time, the youngest was born blind and Jesus healed her. I though Jesus would want me to go to a seminary, so I asked him what one. I thought it would need to be a special seminary, because being married, and being a priest was not often allowed.
Jesus told me "NO! Don't read about me. I will teach you about me.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:42:30
That situation comes about because one allows man to teach him or her about God.
The Holy Spirit/Jesus will teach one how to live the Word. A person does not need anyone to teach them about God.
Yes the Holy Spirit is a teacher. However, He usually works thru men. Teachers are one of the 5 main ministries listed in Eph 4. We all need them. God made sure of it.
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 12:18:13
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 12:06:07
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:12:17
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
: Ladonia Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 11:12:17
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 10:19:14
: Jimmy Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 08:58:32
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 07:49:43
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?
Absolutely not. To be forgiven of our sins does not mean that we did not or do not sin. If you forgive someone who has hurt you, it does not mean they did not hurt you. The deed is done and can not be undone.
Do you not know that when God forgives that he forgets what he has forgiven?
Ah hah! So you really agree with us that all sin. By that statement you are using the illusion that once God forgets the sin and He has forgiven you, the sin never happened, and thus you do not sin. How conveinient!
I am afraid you have not read enough of the written Word.
Let me share something with you. When I accepted Jesus call to his ministry I was going to Mass and Communion every day. I had three babies at the time, the youngest was born blind and Jesus healed her. I though Jesus would want me to go to a seminary, so I asked him what one. I thought it would need to be a special seminary, because being married, and being a priest was not often allowed.
Jesus told me "NO! Don't read about me. I will teach you about me.
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:02:37
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
I became a Christian when I was a Child. That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.
When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.
A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become. Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking. If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one.
After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. That can be a problem for many. People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's. Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.
God bless you Giver and I am happy for you that you have reached this stage in your spiritual life. A person who is no longer a sinner is truly a wonderful thing. I'm not there yet, but I'll keep on working on it, untill then I will keep on praying for Gods mercy upon my soul.
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:13:46After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. That can be a problem for many. People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's. Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.
Do you trust yourself not sining for eternal life?
Or...
Do you trust the finished work of Christ on the Cross for the atonement of our sins for eternal life?
It has to be one or the other...there is no wiggle room; it is either Jesus Christ or Self...
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:13:46
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:02:37
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
I became a Christian when I was a Child. That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.
When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.
A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become. Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking. If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one.
After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. That can be a problem for many. People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's. Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.
When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?
When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?
My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit. We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.
Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we yield more and more to God. Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.
When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ. We are merchanise that Jesus has bought. The bible says we were bought. Which means he owns us. We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus. Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God. God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.
In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?
Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus. Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way. My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.
These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"
I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.
I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like. rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.
I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians. How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?
1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 15:10:20
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:13:46
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:02:37
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
I became a Christian when I was a Child. That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.
When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.
A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become. Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking. If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one.
After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. That can be a problem for many. People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's. Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.
When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?
When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?
My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit. We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.
Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we yield more and more to God. Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.
When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ. We are merchanise that Jesus has bought. The bible says we were bought. Which means he owns us. We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus. Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God. God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.
In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?
Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus. Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way. My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.
These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"
I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.
I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like. rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.
I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians. How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?
1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men
For the first forty years of my life I had no idea what it meant to have the Holy Spirit. A bishop laid hands on me when I was about eight years old, and I was told that meant I had the Holy Spirit. There was no explanation of what that meant other then it was supposed to be of some help in living my life.
I know now there is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit when he is leading one. Having the Holy Spirit is a relationship between God and us.
When the Holy Spirit started to manifest himself to me, it was through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit/Jesus did not begin to teach me until I accepted Jesus call to his ministry. After that there is no way I would have ever not done everything I was taught, and told to do.
My understanding of the relationship of an infant in Christ and God is that he or she is the same as ordinary people, except they may be saved. Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven. It only means they may not go to Hell. If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.
Thankfuldad,
This post can be the best advice you have ever received. Pray that God will give you a true understanding of the following verse. This verse totally destroys Martin Luther and Calvin's understanding of God.
(Galations 5:13-26)
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 19:50:24
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 15:10:20
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:13:46
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:02:37
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
I became a Christian when I was a Child. That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.
When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.
A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become. Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking. If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one.
After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. That can be a problem for many. People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's. Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.
When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?
When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?
My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit. We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.
Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we yield more and more to God. Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.
When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ. We are merchanise that Jesus has bought. The bible says we were bought. Which means he owns us. We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus. Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God. God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.
In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?
Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus. Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way. My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.
These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"
I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.
I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like. rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.
I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians. How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?
1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men
For the first forty years of my life I had no idea what it meant to have the Holy Spirit. A bishop laid hands on me when I was about eight years old, and I was told that meant I had the Holy Spirit. There was no explanation of what that meant other then it was supposed to be of some help in living my life.
I know now there is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit when he is leading one. Having the Holy Spirit is a relationship between God and us.
When the Holy Spirit started to manifest himself to me, it was through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit/Jesus did not begin to teach me until I accepted Jesus call to his ministry. After that there is no way I would have ever not done everything I was taught, and told to do.
My understanding of the relationship of an infant in Christ and God is that he or she is the same as ordinary people, except they may be saved. Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven. It only means they may not go to Hell. If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.
What do you mean by the following things you said?-
Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven. It only means they may not go to Hell. If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.
If someone does not go to heaven or hell then where do they go?
Also, how are you walking in the spirit?
I am also assuming you are Catholic?
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 20:07:09
Thankfuldad,
This post can be the best advice you have ever received. Pray that God will give you a true understanding of the following verse. This verse totally destroys Martin Luther and Calvin's understanding of God.
(Galations 5:13-26)" For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another. I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
I know that verse well...and by faith, I trust fully in the blood of Jesus for Salvation; God has supernaturally deposited His Spirit into my heart. It is His Spirit that works through me which display His Fruit. I am saved first by faith...then, His Fruit/Spirit lives through me...the glory goes to God, and only HIM...
I am nothing...and if you think you are something; you only decieve yourself...
Also...it would be nice of you...if you would kindly answer my question...
cs80918,
Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 06:45:17
cs80918,
Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 08:52:31
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 06:45:17
cs80918,
Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 09:52:22
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 08:52:31
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 06:45:17
cs80918,
Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 09:52:22
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 08:52:31
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 06:45:17
cs80918,
Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 20:57:53
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 19:50:24
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 15:10:20
: Giver Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:13:46
: cs80918 Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:02:37
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?
Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?
I became a Christian when I was a Child. That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.
When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.
A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become. Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking. If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one.
After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. That can be a problem for many. People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's. Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.
When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?
When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?
My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit. We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.
Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we yield more and more to God. Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.
When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ. We are merchanise that Jesus has bought. The bible says we were bought. Which means he owns us. We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus. Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God. God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.
In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?
Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus. Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way. My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.
These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"
I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.
I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like. rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.
I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians. How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?
1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men
For the first forty years of my life I had no idea what it meant to have the Holy Spirit. A bishop laid hands on me when I was about eight years old, and I was told that meant I had the Holy Spirit. There was no explanation of what that meant other then it was supposed to be of some help in living my life.
I know now there is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit when he is leading one. Having the Holy Spirit is a relationship between God and us.
When the Holy Spirit started to manifest himself to me, it was through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit/Jesus did not begin to teach me until I accepted Jesus call to his ministry. After that there is no way I would have ever not done everything I was taught, and told to do.
My understanding of the relationship of an infant in Christ and God is that he or she is the same as ordinary people, except they may be saved. Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven. It only means they may not go to Hell. If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.
What do you mean by the following things you said?-
Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven. It only means they may not go to Hell. If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.
If someone does not go to heaven or hell then where do they go?
Also, how are you walking in the spirit?
I am also assuming you are Catholic?
According to an earlier post Giver practices "a pre-Constantine, the Great Christianity" as taught to him by Jesus. He does not adhere to the Catholic Faith as we who do know we are sinners who can be forgiven throgh Jesus Christ completely if or when sin happens.
.
IMO....
A person who isn't sinful isn't alive.
Now, whether that is "credited" to a Christian and/or is forgivable (and thus forgotten) are other matters for another day and thread.
.
Quote: "Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus. Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way. My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will."
OK...as one not having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit could you tell me in what way does one
"born again about 30 years ago" NOT know that God was trying to mold you into the image of Jesus?
Was the Spirit just sitting in your heart and waiting for you to get the message?
Keeping in mind that Jesus said in John 14:14 "If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it."
Were you "too hard headed" to ask?
Did you not receive the Holy Spirit by asking Jesus into your heart?
If I understand 2 Corinthians 5:12 you believe that you have received not the spirit of the world, but
the spirit which is of God; that you might know the things that are freely given to you by God."
Someone like me, who is the "natural man who receives NOT the Spirit of God" can be expected to
NOT know the Holy Spirit via experience (v. 13); therefore, I admit being dumber than a man getting kicked
by a mule the second time as educated.
But, you sir, being "born again about 30 years ago," or Spirit regenerated would be programed to
"teach which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual" would you not?
If I am reading verse 10 of Corinthians 2 correctly, did not God "reveal" to you the "deep things of God"?
I would appreciate if all you "born again" Christians would show pity on those of us who come to this forum
who do NOT "have the mind of Christ" (v 16)
Understanding NOT "the deep things of God,
I have to admit, I "study to show myself approved unto God" (2 Timothy 2:15) but keep on
getting kicked by that mule.
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins. The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins. The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins. The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 11:06:29
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins. The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.
: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.
Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.
(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad ofhis tithef we all truly are.
No! Don't you understand? Giver has apparantly reached a level that few others have. In his mind he sins no more. He never gets mad, never lustful, always turns the other cheek, never refuses money to the homeless person, picks up EVERY hitchhiker he sees, always contributes his tithe. You ARE giving 10 percent of your salary off the top to the Lord, right Giver?
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 11:59:28
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 11:06:29
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins. The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51
: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.
Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.
(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
Giver how many people do you think will be in heaven according to your beliefs that they must be sinless?
You and who else? If that is the case there will be few in heaven.
In the book of revelation there are multiples of people in heaven. I know what you say can not be true, because if you say were true there would be less than 100 if none in heaven.
Notice that the verse after 1 John 2:1 are warnings.
1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Give I bet if you are honest and open your life up to us for an indepth evaulation, we will find sin in you.
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:53:53
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51
: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.
Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.
(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
Giver how many people do you think will be in heaven?
What works have you done to become sinless?
Giver- name some people in the bible that have reached your level and tell me exatcly in what verse they reached your level.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:53:53
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51
: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.
Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.
(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
Giver don't you care about us? If you believe we are not going to enter the kingdom of heaven, why don't you teach us how we can enter the kingdom of heaven?
Do you not have any mercy on us? Do you want us not to enter the kingdom of God? What must we do so we can go to heaven? How did you overcome sinning?
What are the steps that you took and are taking?
: Elvisman Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:28:10
: Giver Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 10:08:42
The Christianity I practice is a pre-Constantine the Great Christianity, as taught to me by Jesus.
There is not an organized/denominational Church today that is teaching the whole Word of God.
Because no church is teaching the whole Word of God there are very few people who: (John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
: gospel Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:40:32
: Elvisman Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:28:10
: Giver Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 10:08:42
The Christianity I practice is a pre-Constantine the Great Christianity, as taught to me by Jesus.
There is not an organized/denominational Church today that is teaching the whole Word of God.
Because no church is teaching the whole Word of God there are very few people who: (John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
: cs80918 Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 14:09:58
Giver how many people do you think will be in heaven?
What works have you done to become sinless?
I answered Jesus' call, and obeyed him ever sense. Jesus said: (Matthew 7:13-14) "Enter by the narrow gate since the road that leads to perdition is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 14:47:22
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:53:53
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51
: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.
That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.
Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.
(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.
: cs80918 Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:35:46
Giver don't you care about us? If you believe we are not going to enter the kingdom of heaven, why don't you teach us how we can enter the kingdom of heaven?
Do you not have any mercy on us? Do you want us not to enter the kingdom of God? What must we do so we can go to heaven? How did you overcome sinning?
What are the steps that you took and are taking?
(John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
What a con? To take Christ at His word? He said He alone is the way to the Father, HE is the narrow road. He is our advocate with the Father, who casts our sins as far as east from west and remembers them no more. He promises to be faithful to complete the good work *begun* at salvation. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and NOTHING can pluck us from His hand. I've no fear of the "Lord! Lord!" verse, because I *have* confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed with ALL my heart that God raised Him from the dead. I know I am in Christ Jesus and there is NO condemnation for those who in Christ. I do not set my feet to deliberately sin, but sin happens because I am human and of a sin nature...I am forgiven and will be forgiven until my life is complete! God promises this! I *do* make it my aim to live as Holy a life as possible, but even then...I can't even *begin* to measure up to HIS perfect holiness!
Just makes me sad for you, Giver, for I fear it is you who will have a lot of explaining to do on judgement day. What answer will *you* give if He were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom? (PST! Remember, all our righteousness measures up to being a big ol stinking pile of filthy rags compaired to His...)
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 18:28:44
What a con? To take Christ at His word? He said He alone is the way to the Father, HE is the narrow road. He is our advocate with the Father, who casts our sins as far as east from west and remembers them no more. He promises to be faithful to complete the good work *begun* at salvation. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and NOTHING can pluck us from His hand. I've no fear of the "Lord! Lord!" verse, because I *have* confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed with ALL my heart that God raised Him from the dead. I know I am in Christ Jesus and there is NO condemnation for those who in Christ. I do not set my feet to deliberately sin, but sin happens because I am human and of a sin nature...I am forgiven and will be forgiven until my life is complete! God promises this! I *do* make it my aim to live as Holy a life as possible, but even then...I can't even *begin* to measure up to HIS perfect holiness!
Just makes me sad for you, Giver, for I fear it is you who will have a lot of explaining to do on judgement day. What answer will *you* give if He were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom? (PST! Remember, all our righteousness measures up to being a big ol stinking pile of filthy rags compaired to His...)
(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:03:45
No one begotten by God sin, and if one sins he or she is of the devil. Now why would anyone take the word of someone who admits he or she deliberately commit sin?
LOL! Someone who values honesty and humility perhaps? Paul called himself the chief of sinners...he wrote a LOT of the NT.
The trouble, Giver and the danger of your message is that it is completely wrapped up with a select few verses, but ignores the rest of God's word and promises of Christ Himself.
Ps. I *said* I do NOT make it my ambition to sin, so you I guess you CAN take me at my word! ::smile::
I don't think you answered my question, Giver.
What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:15:24
I don't think you answered my question, Giver.
What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?
If Jesus asked me such a question, I would ask him if in his old age if his memory was failing. Jesus told me that I would be one with him and then we would be one with the Father.
The only reason I know of that God has chosen me to be with him is that I obey him.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:24:57
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:15:24
I don't think you answered my question, Giver.
What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?
If Jesus asked me such a question, I would ask him if in his old age if his memory was failing. Jesus told me that I would be one with him and then we would be one with the Father.
The only reason I know of that God has chosen me to be with him is that I obey him.
Why you though? I obey Him too...so does my gram who denies Christ...so should He let her in too?
sorry I did not read through all 7 pages, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the Corinthian church, they were doing some willfull sinning....treating the poor like lower class, getting drunk at the taking of the Lords supper, and someone son was having sex with his step mother.
Yet Paul never said they were not Christian. He called them carnal, of the flesh.
I like this explanation on Christians willfully sinning.
"Can a true Christian be carnal? In answering this question, let's first define the term "carnal.
: Debrah Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 21:59:08
sorry I did not read through all 7 pages, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the Corinthian church, they were doing some willfull sinning....treating the poor like lower class, getting drunk at the taking of the Lords supper, and someone son was having sex with his step mother.
Yet Paul never said they were not Christian. He called them carnal, of the flesh.
I like this explanation on Christians willfully sinning.
"Can a true Christian be carnal? In answering this question, let's first define the term "carnal.
Giver I really want to be sinless like you are. What are the steps? Do you do as the bible says and be anxious for nothing, but everything with peititions and prayers and thanksgiving?
How exactly does a person walk in the spirit? Do you fast often? Do you read your bible 2-8 hours a day? Do you speak in tongues.
If you are really sin free and are not lying, why not share how you are doing this?
Don't you want other people to go to heave to?
If you don't help us there will only be you and maybe 100 other people with you in heaven.
I am being sarcastic and real at the same time. Seriously what is your secret?
You said you asked Jesus to give you the Holy Spirit. What else did you do?
Is being in Christ the same thing as having the holy spirit dwell inside a person?
If a person's life is hidden in Christ does that mean they will be in heaven with Christ?
I know I am in CHrist, because the bible says you can check to see if you are in Christ or not. Whoever believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is in Christ.
1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
Giver??? Do you believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh? Do you believe God the son Jesus came in the flesh?
: Ladonia Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:34:56: DaveW Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad ofhis tithef we all truly are.
No! Don't you understand? Giver has apparantly reached a level that few others have. In his mind he sins no more. He never gets mad, never lustful, always turns the other cheek, never refuses money to the homeless person, picks up EVERY hitchhiker he sees, always contributes his tithe. You ARE giving 10 percent of your salary off the top to the Lord, right Giver?
He does so by so watering down the definition of sin that he can avoid it.
Has he EVER passed an ethonol plant? If so then he has smelled alcohol and sinned.
Which food hit the floor first this morning? If it was not the one God wanted, he sinned. (and God has an opinion on EVERYTHING)
While those are extreme positions (that I grew up with) I do not accept them now. they are extrabiblical. However, the following has biblical support and I accept it:
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the [rhema - spoken] word of God.
What ever not done in faith is sin.
If he did not hear God saying to do EVERY THING he does - then it is not done in faith and is sin.
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38
You can justify your sins that way, but if you deliberately commit a sin you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
A Christian is a temple of God and no filth/sin will ever enter God's temple.
There is the rub. Most sins are NOT DELIBERATE.
Sin is missing the mark (archery term) meaning you were TRYING to hit it right but did not. Bad aim. Not enough power to the arrow. Over shot the target.
Making sin ONLY deliberate disobedience is watering down the definiton.
There are 3 different things:
Sin - missing the mark
Trespass - willful disobedience
Iniquity - transgenerational effects of sins and transgressions
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:24:57
: MeMyself Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:15:24
I don't think you answered my question, Giver.
What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?
If Jesus asked me such a question, I would ask him if in his old age if his memory was failing. Jesus told me that I would be one with him and then we would be one with the Father.
The only reason I know of that God has chosen me to be with him is that I obey him.
Hey Giver, I'm not going to mock God by questioning you about perfection.
I do want to say that this is the ultimate goal that God wants us to achieve. Jesus wasn't perceived well by the pharisees either. They all mocked him in disbelief. Sad to see that happening on a Christian message board too.
There's a bunch of wolves in sheep clothing, glad to see you are safe from them as God promised you would be. Keep standing your ground and watch them with me jumping the fence to get to the other side.
Being perfect isn't always what it is imagined to be, the bible says being with God is unimaginable. Trying to imagine perfection won't get anyone there any faster either.
: DaveW Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 06:14:36
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38
You can justify your sins that way, but if you deliberately commit a sin you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
A Christian is a temple of God and no filth/sin will ever enter God's temple.
There is the rub. Most sins are NOT DELIBERATE.
Sin is missing the mark (archery term) meaning you were TRYING to hit it right but did not. Bad aim. Not enough power to the arrow. Over shot the target.
Making sin ONLY deliberate disobedience is watering down the definiton.
There are 3 different things:
Sin - missing the mark
Trespass - willful disobedience
Iniquity - transgenerational effects of sins and transgressions
Any wrongdoing is a sin. Not all sins lead to death. (1 John 5: 17) "If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
A wrongdoing that one commits without his or her knowing or giving one's consent, is a sin, but only needs prayer and will not lead to death.
The Holy Spirit will make a person aware of these wrongdoings and give a person instruction on how to overcome these faults.
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:01:05
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
A wrongdoing that one commits without his or her knowing or giving one's consent, is a sin, but only needs prayer and will not lead to death.
Where in scripture do you get these definitions?
: DaveW Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:24:22
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:01:05
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
A wrongdoing that one commits without his or her knowing or giving one's consent, is a sin, but only needs prayer and will not lead to death.
Where in scripture do you get these definitions?
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Is not the wages of sin, death?? It seems you have confused physical death with spiritual death.
The reason so many are upset with your claims of perfection Giver, with your claims to be sinless, is because Christians believe there is and has only been One sinless Man, the Man Jesus Christ. And that now He continues to live His sinless life in and through Christians by His Spirit. He is the Seed that cannot sin,
If we had perfect faith, we could be sinless. If we were always and only living in total dependency upon Christ, in the same way that He lived in total dependency upon His Father, then we would be as perfect as He was. But we don't live that way 100% of the time; no one does, we all fall short, and we all fall short because we all still have the flesh with us, and the flesh never gets "better", it does not improve, it will always be set against the things of the Spirit, so that we do not always do what we, in our spirit, want to do.
Until the day when our corruptibility is exchanged for incorruptibility, until that day, we will not perfectly live by faith, and whatever is not of faith is sin.
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:01:05
Any wrongdoing is a sin. Not all sins lead to death. (1 John 5: 17) If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
The sin that leads to death is the sin of rejection of the Holy Spirit. When you reject God's plan of salvation...you reject His Spirit; and God's plan was the Lamb slain before the foundations of this world...the death of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.
You reject that...and there is a certainty of death, everlasting torment.
So I ask you again giver:
Do you trust in God's plan of Salvation for eternal life?
Or
Do you trust in self...yourself not sinning for eternal life?
Zero wiggle room; it is God's plan or Givers plan (in your situation)...
Let's not forget, God's thoughts are not like man. So what we think God thinks, may not be so with God.
It's indescribable, unimaginable. ::smile:: Nobody but God and Giver knows and believe me, you will know for certain in this life where you stand with God.
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 09:27:23
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:01:05
Any wrongdoing is a sin. Not all sins lead to death. (1 John 5: 17) "If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
The sin that leads to death is the sin of rejection of the Holy Spirit. When you reject God's plan of salvation...you reject His Spirit; and God's plan was the Lamb slain before the foundations of this world...the death of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.
You reject that...and there is a certainty of death, everlasting torment.
So I ask you again giver:
Do you trust in God's plan of Salvation for eternal life?
Or
Do you trust in self...yourself not sinning for eternal life?
Zero wiggle room; it is God's plan or Givers plan (in your situation)...
Exactly! God's ways may be higher than our ways, we may not fully understand His mind, BUT on the issue of salvation, He has been VERY clear! He leaves no room for us to wonder on that issue! Jesus said HE alone is the way to the Father. Many are offended by His claim still today just like they were when He first breathed them.
The mocking of God comes when we try and drag people off the narrow road of Christ ...and insist or even imply that salvation can be found elsewhere.
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:01:05
: DaveW Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 06:14:36
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38
You can justify your sins that way, but if you deliberately commit a sin you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
A Christian is a temple of God and no filth/sin will ever enter God's temple.
There is the rub. Most sins are NOT DELIBERATE.
Sin is missing the mark (archery term) meaning you were TRYING to hit it right but did not. Bad aim. Not enough power to the arrow. Over shot the target.
Making sin ONLY deliberate disobedience is watering down the definiton.
There are 3 different things:
Sin - missing the mark
Trespass - willful disobedience
Iniquity - transgenerational effects of sins and transgressions
Any wrongdoing is a sin. Not all sins lead to death. (1 John 5: 17) "If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
A wrongdoing that one commits without his or her knowing or giving one's consent, is a sin, but only needs prayer and will not lead to death.
The Holy Spirit will make a person aware of these wrongdoings and give a person instruction on how to overcome these faults.
But Giver, in this thread you seemed to be pretty emphatic in stating that you did not sin. Now you are saying "Any wrongdoing is sin" and "Not all sin leads to death". So, are you ever guilty of wrongdoing?
How many of you have a relationship with Jesus where you ask him what you should or should not do in your actions? Then wait for his instructions before doing what you do?
People will ask God something, and then take for an answer some other person's words, or some other event that seem to be an answer.
Jesus said his people would hear his voice and follow no other. Well then listen for Jesus speaking to you, and come to know his voice, and don't listen to anyone else.
One will, using their power, ever defeat Satan/sin. The only way to defeat Satan is to be possessed by God.
Jesus called us to be perfect, and he gave us the way to become perfect.
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:21:13
How many of you have a relationship with Jesus where you ask him what you should or should not do in your actions? Then wait for his instructions before doing what you do?
People will ask God something, and then take for an answer some other person's words, or some other event that seem to be an answer.
Jesus said his people would hear his voice and follow no other. Well then listen for Jesus speaking to you, and come to know his voice, and don't listen to anyone else.
One will, using their power, ever defeat Satan/sin. The only way to defeat Satan is to be possessed by God.
Jesus called us to be perfect, and he gave us the way to become perfect.
yep. and that one way is to accept Him as Lord, confess with our mouth and believe with our hearts that God raised Him from the dead. ::smile::
That is where our walk begins...as we mature in Him, we will learn to wait upon Him, and want to follow His leading in our lives. (so I agree with what you say about knowing His voice)
: Ladonia Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:10:59
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 07:01:05
: DaveW Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 06:14:36
: Giver Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38
You can justify your sins that way, but if you deliberately commit a sin you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
A Christian is a temple of God and no filth/sin will ever enter God's temple.
There is the rub. Most sins are NOT DELIBERATE.
Sin is missing the mark (archery term) meaning you were TRYING to hit it right but did not. Bad aim. Not enough power to the arrow. Over shot the target.
Making sin ONLY deliberate disobedience is watering down the definiton.
There are 3 different things:
Sin - missing the mark
Trespass - willful disobedience
Iniquity - transgenerational effects of sins and transgressions
Any wrongdoing is a sin. Not all sins lead to death. (1 John 5: 17) "If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
A sin that leads to death is any wrongdoing that one knows is wrong and willfully commits.
A wrongdoing that one commits without his or her knowing or giving one's consent, is a sin, but only needs prayer and will not lead to death.
The Holy Spirit will make a person aware of these wrongdoings and give a person instruction on how to overcome these faults.
But Giver, in this thread you seemed to be pretty emphatic in stating that you did not sin. Now you are saying "Any wrongdoing is sin" and "Not all sin leads to death". So, are you ever guilty of wrongdoing?
That is a good question, and I had to sit, think, and ask Jesus if I am guilty of any wrongdoing. I am not aware of any infractions, and Jesus tells me that I am not guilty of any.
After a time sin ceases to become an issue in one's life. The Holy Spirit keeps teaching and correcting until living totally as God wants one to live becomes a habit.
I tell people that Jesus sat next to me and personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. People can't believe that Jesus does such a thing. I also have been told by Jesus to share what I am sharing, but the only way one can ever be sure of anything about God is if God personally
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:57:52I tell people that Jesus sat next to me and personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. People cant believe that Jesus does such a thing. I also have been told by Jesus to share what I am sharing, but the only way one can ever be sure of anything about God is if God personally
Giver...I hate to burst your bubble; however, what you are sharing is what a deceiving spirit would instruct a man.
God's plan for our salvation...is the cross of Jesus, and His shed blood for our sins. There is no other plan...certainly not one where we are to go sinless in order to enter the kingdom of God. You have been greatly deceived.......the fact that you cannot answer my question; is alarming for one who claims to be a Christian.
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 20:33:35
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:57:52I tell people that Jesus sat next to me and personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. People cant believe that Jesus does such a thing. I also have been told by Jesus to share what I am sharing, but the only way one can ever be sure of anything about God is if God personally
Giver...I hate to burst your bubble; however, what you are sharing is what a deceiving spirit would instruct a man.
God's plan for our salvation...is the cross of Jesus, and His shed blood for our sins. There is no other plan...certainly not one where we are to go sinless in order to enter the kingdom of God. You have been greatly deceived.......the fact that you cannot answer my question; is alarming for one who claims to be a Christian.
If one sin he or she is of the devil. A devil will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. A person who sins will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
This reminds me of Giver, just close your eyes and listen and think of your ultimate goal with Christianity.
: Giver Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 06:37:21
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 20:33:35
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:57:52I tell people that Jesus sat next to me and personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. People can't believe that Jesus does such a thing. I also have been told by Jesus to share what I am sharing, but the only way one can ever be sure of anything about God is if God personally
Giver...I hate to burst your bubble; however, what you are sharing is what a deceiving spirit would instruct a man.
God's plan for our salvation...is the cross of Jesus, and His shed blood for our sins. There is no other plan...certainly not one where we are to go sinless in order to enter the kingdom of God. You have been greatly deceived.......the fact that you cannot answer my question; is alarming for one who claims to be a Christian.
If one sin he or she is of the devil. A devil will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. A person who sins will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Givers plan for salvation: if you sin, you are of the devil...and you will not enter the kingdom of God...
God's plan...Jesus, and His shed blood for the atonement of our sins...which shook the foundations of hell and brought us back into a right relationship with God.
Which plan sounds like the Good News of the gospel...which brings us to our knees in Thanksgiving today?
Thank you Father God, for the Love you have for us; not because we are so good, but because that is Who you are. Thank you for your grace, thank you for Jesus and His Spirit which you have given us. Thank you for the good in our lives...as the good is all from you. Thank you for our Christian friends and family...that we can know with blessed assurance...that we have eternal life through you...as we are your loved and protected children. We thank you in Jesus holy and precious name....Amen.
giver, it is sad for me to read the false teaching you believe, for you keep cursing yourself and others to eternal damnation, if we believe you, we are all doomed, their is no salvation for anyone.
Your misunderstanding of scripture and salvation seems to come down to your not reading the bible as a whole story, but you are taking verses out of context.
Over and over in the NT we see Christians struggle with sin, yet they are still children of God. Even those who may have been disciplined to the point of death, for they are with Jesus, if they were born again.
giver, I am not sure how you can ever have peace or hope in the type of salvation you believe in.
I will be praying for you.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
: Thankfulldad Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 09:05:19
: Giver Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 06:37:21
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 20:33:35
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:57:52I tell people that Jesus sat next to me and personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. People can't believe that Jesus does such a thing. I also have been told by Jesus to share what I am sharing, but the only way one can ever be sure of anything about God is if God personally
Giver...I hate to burst your bubble; however, what you are sharing is what a deceiving spirit would instruct a man.
God's plan for our salvation...is the cross of Jesus, and His shed blood for our sins. There is no other plan...certainly not one where we are to go sinless in order to enter the kingdom of God. You have been greatly deceived.......the fact that you cannot answer my question; is alarming for one who claims to be a Christian.
If one sin he or she is of the devil. A devil will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. A person who sins will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Givers plan for salvation: if you sin, you are of the devil...and you will not enter the kingdom of God...
God's plan...Jesus, and His shed blood for the atonement of our sins...which shook the foundations of hell and brought us back into a right relationship with God.
Which plan sounds like the Good News of the gospel...which brings us to our knees in Thanksgiving today?
Thank you Father God, for the Love you have for us; not because we are so good, but because that is Who you are. Thank you for your grace, thank you for Jesus and His Spirit which you have given us. Thank you for the good in our lives...as the good is all from you. Thank you for our Christian friends and family...that we can know with blessed assurance...that we have eternal life through you...as we are your loved and protected children. We thank you in Jesus holy and precious name....Amen.
Amen!
: Debrah Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 09:14:41
giver, it is sad for me to read the false teaching you believe, for you keep cursing yourself and others to eternal damnation, if we believe you, we are all doomed, their is no salvation for anyone.
Your misunderstanding of scripture and salvation seems to come down to your not reading the bible as a whole story, but you are taking verses out of context.
Over and over in the NT we see Christians struggle with sin, yet they are still children of God. Even those who may have been disciplined to the point of death, for they are with Jesus, if they were born again.
giver, I am not sure how you can ever have peace or hope in the type of salvation you believe in.
I will be praying for you.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
To you too! :) Thank you for your post too...I agree with it 100%
Look at the first sentence here this sounds like this could be sin. What do you think people do you think Giver committed a sin by writing this sentence? It is very disrespectful, it is not honoring or loving towards God.
If Jesus asked me such a question, I would ask him if in his old age if his memory was failing. Jesus told me that I would be one with him and then we would be one with the Father.
The only reason I know of that God has chosen me to be with him is that I obey him.
Reply
Give the main problem with your post is that you do not have love enough for other people to help them go to heaven. You are not helping anyone.
You call yourself "GIVER" (boasting about your goodness) and you come here stating:
: Giver Sat Nov 19, 2011 - 10:19:26
A person who sins is not a Christian. I am a temple of God where no sin exists.
It is written:
Prov 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
Repent and confess your sin.
1 Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
(1 Corinthians 3:16-16) "Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God, which you are, is holy
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
There have been many excellent posts in this thread challenging Givers belief...and, we have given Giver every opportunity; yet he refuses to acknowledge God's plan of salvation. He continues to insist that he is without sin...and regardless of our faith; if we sin...we are headed to hell.
I suggest we leave Giver in God's hands...and we no longer recognize Giver on this forum.......He gives no hope, no compassion, no mercy, and no grace to anyone. He is in his own little world of deceit and lies...his bubble has been burst; still, he stays under a curse...deceived and blinded by his own pride...
Our Apostle Peter was the first to minister the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius > Acts chapter ten. Then in Galatians 2:11-13 we read how Peter and other church leaders together withdrew from Gentile-background Christians who they knew had received the Holy Spirit. Paul says they "played the hypocrite" with Peter. Playing the hypocrite is sinning. So, also, Peter betrayed the Holy Spirit whom he had ministered to Gentiles.
So, I guess we have people who believe that Peter was a sinner.
And we have how John was receiving the vision of Revelation and writing what God had him write. Then John fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. And we have Revelation 22:7-8 where it says he fell down to worship an angel. He sinned by worshiping an angel . . . right while he was receiving the book of Revelation.
So, I guess there are people who believe John at that time was not one who "cannot sin" and therefore he was unforgiven.
But I understand that Jesus has not made us perfect, but is still correcting us and the Holy Spirit is still maturing us in Jesus (Galatians 4:19, 2 Corinthians 3:18) who has no sin and can not sin. More and more, though, then, in His love we do not sin while we grow more and live better in God's love with His leading. God does succeed in changing us so "as He is, so are we in this world," as John has ministered in 1 John 4:17.
But John who wrote these things also confesses how he fell down to worship an angel. So, he is being honest with us. We need to follow his good example of honesty ::smile:: and therefore do what he did > "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)
Glory is to You, O God our Father ::smile::
: Thankfulldad Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 09:05:19
: Giver Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 06:37:21
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 20:33:35
: Giver Wed Nov 23, 2011 - 11:57:52I tell people that Jesus sat next to me and personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. People can't believe that Jesus does such a thing. I also have been told by Jesus to share what I am sharing, but the only way one can ever be sure of anything about God is if God personally
Giver...I hate to burst your bubble; however, what you are sharing is what a deceiving spirit would instruct a man.
God's plan for our salvation...is the cross of Jesus, and His shed blood for our sins. There is no other plan...certainly not one where we are to go sinless in order to enter the kingdom of God. You have been greatly deceived.......the fact that you cannot answer my question; is alarming for one who claims to be a Christian.
If one sin he or she is of the devil. A devil will never enter the kingdom of Heaven. A person who sins will never enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Givers plan for salvation: if you sin, you are of the devil...and you will not enter the kingdom of God...
God's plan...Jesus, and His shed blood for the atonement of our sins...which shook the foundations of hell and brought us back into a right relationship with God.
Which plan sounds like the Good News of the gospel...which brings us to our knees in Thanksgiving today?
Thank you Father God, for the Love you have for us; not because we are so good, but because that is Who you are. Thank you for your grace, thank you for Jesus and His Spirit which you have given us. Thank you for the good in our lives...as the good is all from you. Thank you for our Christian friends and family...that we can know with blessed assurance...that we have eternal life through you...as we are your loved and protected children. We thank you in Jesus holy and precious name....Amen.
I wholeheartedly agree with you here! Yes, Jesus came for us, to show forgiveness to us sinners and to help us when we call upon Him. Giver does tell us the ultimate with his posts, to be perfect as Christ was, but in reality we all sin at one point or another and we have the assurance of Christ who can make us whole again.
Yes, God is able to restore us. Also, we have > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." (Galatians 6:1) So, God also is able to include us in restoring someone who is in "any" trespass.
But it also does say, "considering yourself lest you also be tempted."
So, if God warns us to watch ourselves so we don't get tempted, this to me shows that it is possible for even someone who is "spiritual" to give in to temptation, and so we need to watch our own selves while we laboring to help restore other people. But with God we can restore someone in "any" sin problem, I consider possible with God.
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
Don't bother praying for Giver, God doesn't listen to sinners. ::smile::
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
Ouch, double whammy. I'd quit while I was ahead and just admit I am blind so I can start with a clean slate, eventually.
1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
: comfy Thu Nov 24, 2011 - 21:16:53
Our Apostle Peter was the first to minister the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius > Acts chapter ten. Then in Galatians 2:11-13 we read how Peter and other church leaders together withdrew from Gentile-background Christians who they knew had received the Holy Spirit. Paul says they "played the hypocrite" with Peter. Playing the hypocrite is sinning. So, also, Peter betrayed the Holy Spirit whom he had ministered to Gentiles.
So, I guess we have people who believe that Peter was a sinner.
And we have how John was receiving the vision of Revelation and writing what God had him write. Then John fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. And we have Revelation 22:7-8 where it says he fell down to worship an angel. He sinned by worshiping an angel . . . right while he was receiving the book of Revelation.
So, I guess there are people who believe John at that time was not one who "cannot sin" and therefore he was unforgiven.
But I understand that Jesus has not made us perfect, but is still correcting us and the Holy Spirit is still maturing us in Jesus (Galatians 4:19, 2 Corinthians 3:18) who has no sin and can not sin. More and more, though, then, in His love we do not sin while we grow more and live better in God's love with His leading. God does succeed in changing us so "as He is, so are we in this world," as John has ministered in 1 John 4:17.
But John who wrote these things also confesses how he fell down to worship an angel. So, he is being honest with us. We need to follow his good example of honesty ::smile:: and therefore do what he did > "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)
Glory is to You, O God our Father ::smile::
Sinners need to make everyone a sinner as they are. Making everyone else a sinner is their way to make themselves feel righteous even thought they are of the devil.
Judging others as sinners is one dangerous act.
Paul tells us that a spiritual person cannot be judged by anyone.
(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) "These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;' who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?' But we are those who have the mind of Christ.
: Bitter Sweet Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 01:10:41
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
Don't bother praying for Giver, God doesn't listen to sinners. ::smile::
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
Ouch, double whammy. I'd quit while I was ahead and just admit I am blind so I can start with a clean slate, eventually.
There is no clean slate. There is no hope of one. Giver's message is that Christ has compassion only for those who deny and reject Him. Once they give Him their life, THAT'S when the rejection begins. He goes from a God of love and excuse making for sin, to one who is a harsh, fault finding favorites playing bully who does not keep His promise to complete what He's begun.
Thank goodness MOST of us know our master's voice and know the voice that Giver is speaking for is NOT HIM! ::smile::
: Giver Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 07:06:16
Sinners need to make everyone a sinner as they are. Making everyone else a sinner is their way to make themselves feel righteous even thought they are of the devil.
[/quote]
Giver, this is an outright lie you just told. Not to mention slander.
You are so blind to the truth. ::frown::
: MeMyself Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 10:36:23
Giver, this is an outright lie you just told. Not to mention slander.
You are so blind to the truth. ::frown::
Jesus said blind people aren't guilty of sin so Giver still isn't sinning in Jesus eyes, right? Giver isn't a sinner. Since you called him blind, then you are the one saying Jesus is a liar. How is a blind person a sinner when Jesus clearly say's he isn't?
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
Only your guilt remains since you can see and say Giver is blind. Don't blame him for YOUR problems.
Is this how Jesus talked to the blind people? NO, he healed them not calling them liars and slanders.
: Bitter Sweet Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 11:25:19
: MeMyself Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 10:36:23
Giver, this is an outright lie you just told. Not to mention slander.
You are so blind to the truth. ::frown::
Jesus said blind people aren't guilty of sin so Giver still isn't sinning in Jesus eyes, right? Giver isn't a sinner. Since you called him blind, then you are the one saying Jesus is a liar. How is a blind person a sinner when Jesus clearly say's he isn't?
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
Only your guilt remains since you can see and say Giver is blind. Don't blame him for YOUR problems.
Is this how Jesus talked to the blind people? NO, he healed them not calling them liars and slanders.
Nope. Not even close. I have not, nor do I call Jesus a liar. You are following the same road of taking and using scripture out of context.
Giver called those that are honest about our struggles with sin of the devil; that is slander. He said we want to make everyone a sinner to feel righteous; that is a lie. Where is your rebuke of him doing this to the posters on the board...and I think he is more than capable of speaking for himself. I was speaking TO him, so next time I will do my best to address him alone, since I was not talking to you.
I have never blamed anyone for my problems here or anywhere, so you over step and speak of what you don't know. Givers words (his fruit) prove he has no understanding of the gospel of Truth and hope that Christ offers...hence my comment that he was blind to the Truth. ::smile::
: MeMyself Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 11:48:36
Giver called those that are honest about our struggles with sin of the devil; that is slander.
So is sin of God if it isn't of the devil? I don't think so, I think it is of the devil and therefore NOT slander.
He said we want to make everyone a sinner to feel righteous; that is a lie. Where is your rebuke of him doing this to the posters on the board...and I think he is more than capable of speaking for himself. I was speaking TO him, so next time I will do my best to address him alone, since I was not talking to you.
In post #137 you did talk to me, liar. It's simple just hit reply instead of quote and don't lie.
I have never blamed anyone for my problems here or anywhere, so you over step and speak of what you don't know. Givers words (his fruit) prove he has no understanding of the gospel of Truth and hope that Christ offers...hence my comment that he was blind to the Truth. ::smile::
I don't believe you, you just lied saying you weren't talking to me when in fact you did reply to my post so I'm not listening... blah blah blah God doesn't listen to SINNERS either.
::workingout::
bitter sweet, you have shared openly on this forum, so what I am about to share is not gossip, but to prove a point I am going to share you have admitted to living with a man, that you are not married to.
So if you believe the gospel Giver is teaching, you are not a child of God, you are going to hell.
Be wise in what you say dear one....
: Debrah Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 15:06:27So if you believe the gospel Giver is teaching, you are not a child of God, you are going to hell.
Be wise in what you say dear one....
Likewise, we remarried the other day, not that it's any of your business.
Now bite your tongue.
James 3:9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God's likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
How do "Christian" sinners help other sinners while they are still sinners?
James 5:19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Aren't we told not to be hypocrites? Sorry but I don't listen to people that tell me not to sin that are sinning themselves.
James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
Being sinless is the freedom spoken of here.
: Bitter Sweet Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 13:31:39
: MeMyself Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 11:48:36
Giver called those that are honest about our struggles with sin of the devil; that is slander.
So is sin of God if it isn't of the devil? I don't think so, I think it is of the devil and therefore NOT slander.
He said we want to make everyone a sinner to feel righteous; that is a lie. Where is your rebuke of him doing this to the posters on the board...and I think he is more than capable of speaking for himself. I was speaking TO him, so next time I will do my best to address him alone, since I was not talking to you.
In post #137 you did talk to me, liar. It's simple just hit reply instead of quote and don't lie.
I have never blamed anyone for my problems here or anywhere, so you over step and speak of what you don't know. Givers words (his fruit) prove he has no understanding of the gospel of Truth and hope that Christ offers...hence my comment that he was blind to the Truth. ::smile::
I don't believe you, you just lied saying you weren't talking to me when in fact you did reply to my post so I'm not listening... blah blah blah God doesn't listen to SINNERS either.
::workingout::
Excuse me...but you are mistaken. I was NOT talking to you in the post you responded to. Your whole post here is very very rude and uncalled for. I am not a liar. Had you responded to the post that I WAS addressing you, I wouldn't have said that I wasn't talking to you. The post of mine that you quoted was to GIVER, not you. I did not lie. I am now going to completely ignore you, since you seem to be so bitter and angry and like to throw around insults and call names.
: MeMyself Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 11:48:36I was speaking TO him, so next time I will do my best to address him alone, since I was not talking to you.
I'm so disappointed, you didn't even try. There's a bunch on discipline in the bible, it's a good place to start.
::workingout::
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
As christians we shouldn't be living lifestyles of sin but God says here that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
So yes chrisitans do fall into sin occasionally. Something as small as thinking hateful thoughts to a brother or sister in Christ is sin.
If one says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him according to Jesus.
When we sin, and we do at times, we must confess it and repent. With that said, we shouldn't be sinning on regular basis or living in blatant sin.
Sin is something that still happens as christians and until we are with Jesus we will never be able to remain totally sinless, its part of our nature.
: Sinead Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 19:39:27
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
As christians we shouldn't be living lifestyles of sin but God says here that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
So yes chrisitans do fall into sin occasionally. Something as small as thinking hateful thoughts to a brother or sister in Christ is sin.
If one says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him according to Jesus.
When we sin, and we do at times, we must confess it and repent. With that said, we shouldn't be sinning on regular basis or living in blatant sin.
Sin is something that still happens as christians and until we are with Jesus we will never be able to remain totally sinless, its part of our nature.
::amen!::
Thanks for sharing! It is SO nice to see God's word used in proper context! ::smile::
: Sinead Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 19:39:27
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
As christians we shouldn't be living lifestyles of sin but God says here that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
So yes chrisitans do fall into sin occasionally. Something as small as thinking hateful thoughts to a brother or sister in Christ is sin.
If one says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him according to Jesus.
When we sin, and we do at times, we must confess it and repent. With that said, we shouldn't be sinning on regular basis or living in blatant sin.
Sin is something that still happens as christians and until we are with Jesus we will never be able to remain totally sinless, its part of our nature.
Yes John was talking to Children in Christ. Infants in Christ will sin. Just as Paul pointed out in the following verse.
(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) "Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn't that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?
bitter sweet, you made your personal life my business and everyone else's who have read here about your lifestyle, so your reprimand of me is inappropriate.
So do you think your saved now that your married and not living in sin? How will you ever know if you base your salvation on living a sinless life? Which of course no one can do, if so, then why did we ever need a savior?
anyway, congratulations on your marriage.
: Debrah Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 21:33:40
bitter sweet, you made your personal life my business and everyone else's who have read here about your lifestyle, so your reprimand of me is inappropriate.
1. When you make a statement about someone that isn't true, it means you don't have your facts straight and makes you look like a liar. Try praying to God for an answer before you say the wrong thing. But you also have to consider, God doesn't listen to sinners.
2. Then you proceeded to pass judgement on anyone that believed what Giver is saying is true as not being of God and going to hell, a curse.
I think the verse I posted was very appropriate considering you cursed and believe you are praising God at the same time. The bible say's you shouldn't do that so if you have a problem with it, you are in essence saying God's word is inappropriate, not mine. Try to pay attention more to what you write and pause before you hit the send button.
So do you think your saved now that your married and not living in sin? How will you ever know if you base your salvation on living a sinless life? Which of course no one can do, if so, then why did we ever need a savior?
1. My husband and I never left each other.
2. God reassures me constantly.
3. I don't think it's a good idea for you to put doubt in other people's head, it makes you look like you lack faith.
Debrah, sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.
: Debrah Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 21:33:40
anyway, congratulations on your marriage.
It's a little late for that, we've been married since 2005 and never left each other. You attempted to asunder what God joined together a long time ago, another thing the bible say's we shouldn't do.
Now I understand why some people are so adamant about being a sinner, they don't even do what the bible say's about how to treat other people and talk to them. I think that's a simple place to start, focus on other people by doing what the bible says, once you have that mastered (basically minding your own business) then you can focus on yourself.
bitter sweet, this will be my last reply to you.
I used your life example, so you could see how insane it is to support givers teachings on salvation.
You may have never left your ex-husband, but you told all of us you were not married but still living together in sin.
so in fact you are willfully sinning again against me when you call me a liar, so again if you believe in givers theology, you are going to hell.
I hope your eyes, heart and mind will be opened to how givers theology is not of the Lord.
::tippinghat::
: Giver Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 20:20:42
: Sinead Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 19:39:27
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
As christians we shouldn't be living lifestyles of sin but God says here that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
So yes chrisitans do fall into sin occasionally. Something as small as thinking hateful thoughts to a brother or sister in Christ is sin.
If one says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him according to Jesus.
When we sin, and we do at times, we must confess it and repent. With that said, we shouldn't be sinning on regular basis or living in blatant sin.
Sin is something that still happens as christians and until we are with Jesus we will never be able to remain totally sinless, its part of our nature.
Yes John was talking to Children in Christ. Infants in Christ will sin. Just as Paul pointed out in the following verse.
(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) "Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn't that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?
: MeMyself Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 10:05:34
: Giver Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 20:20:42
: Sinead Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 19:39:27
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
As christians we shouldn't be living lifestyles of sin but God says here that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
So yes chrisitans do fall into sin occasionally. Something as small as thinking hateful thoughts to a brother or sister in Christ is sin.
If one says he is without sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him according to Jesus.
When we sin, and we do at times, we must confess it and repent. With that said, we shouldn't be sinning on regular basis or living in blatant sin.
Sin is something that still happens as christians and until we are with Jesus we will never be able to remain totally sinless, its part of our nature.
Yes John was talking to Children in Christ. Infants in Christ will sin. Just as Paul pointed out in the following verse.
(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) "Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn't that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 10:53:33
Jesus told us that those who do not do the will of the Father would never enter the kingdom of God. Jesus told us that God would make his home in those who live the Word of God. It sure seems to me that God sees all what one does, and does not do. Sin is not doing God's will.
You can con yourself into believing that your sins will not keep you out of the kingdom of God, but scripture says you are wrong.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Debrah Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 09:11:28
bitter sweet, this will be my last reply to you.
so in fact you are willfully sinning again against me when you call me a liar, so again if you believe in givers theology, you are going to hell.
I hope your eyes, heart and mind will be opened to how givers theology is not of the Lord.
::tippinghat::
I appreciate your effort in attempting to take the speck out of my eye.
But, since you say my eyes are not open then I am not guilty of any sin, Jesus say's so. FYI I can't be both blind and a sinner.
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
Only your guilt is left remaining. Please try to stay true to the word of God instead of perverting it into your own.
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:21:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
Again...what you share is from satan, or a demon. We are not saved by not sinning; we are saved by the blood of Christ shed for us on Calvary. There is NO other way...you have been greatly deceived; and are living and spreading a lie. The lake of fire awaits those that spread such blasphemy.
That was not Jesus instructing you...but a power of darkness!
: Thankfulldad Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:30:09
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:21:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
Again...what you share is from satan, or a demon. We are not saved by not sinning; we are saved by the blood of Christ shed for us on Calvary. There is NO other way...you have been greatly deceived; and are living and spreading a lie. The lake of fire awaits those that spread such blasphemy.
That was not Jesus instructing you...but a power of darkness!
Jesus our Lord and God needs to talk to you.
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:53:47
: Thankfulldad Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:30:09
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:21:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
Again...what you share is from satan, or a demon. We are not saved by not sinning; we are saved by the blood of Christ shed for us on Calvary. There is NO other way...you have been greatly deceived; and are living and spreading a lie. The lake of fire awaits those that spread such blasphemy.
That was not Jesus instructing you...but a power of darkness!
Jesus our Lord and God needs to talk to you.
He has...and has given me insight into your deceit. You are believing a lie from the pit of Hell.
Giver, surely you know Jesus is in heaven? He doesn't make special trips back to earth. That is why He told us "I will not leave you alone, I will send you the Holy Spirit."
Jesus went up to heaven, and the Holy Spirit came down to be with us.
: Sinead Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:57:33
Giver, surely you know Jesus is in heaven? He doesn't make special trips back to earth. That is why He told us "I will not leave you alone, I will send you the Holy Spirit."
Jesus went up to heaven, and the Holy Spirit came down to be with us.
Do you ever wonder who it was that Paul saw when he was knocked off his horse?
If Jesus does not come here then how does he talk to his people?
(John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."
Jesus talks to us through the Holy Spirit. I hear Him through preaching usually, like if I've spoken to God about something I often hear the answer through a sermon. Sometimes through other people or through a verse in the Bible.
He speaks in a lot of different ways.
Right now He is in heaven eagerly awaiting the go-ahead from the Father to return for us.
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:21:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
What do you make of the fact that what your "Jesus" told you contradicting what the Jesus of the bible says? He says HE is the way to the Father and that no one comes to Him but through Himself. We are also told in the scripture salvation is a gift from God and not of works so that no man can boast...that contradicts what you are saying "Jesus" told you as well, because you say you will tell Him He should let you in based on your obedience.
: Sinead Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 19:36:15
Jesus talks to us through the Holy Spirit. I hear Him through preaching usually, like if I've spoken to God about something I often hear the answer through a sermon. Sometimes through other people or through a verse in the Bible.
He speaks in a lot of different ways.
Right now He is in heaven eagerly awaiting the go-ahead from the Father to return for us.
::amen!::
I love it when I sense God speaking to my spirit through His, and it is confirmed by a sermon or His word! It also works with conviction....He will put a check in my spirit about something and it will be confirmed through His word or the sermon at church. God is sooo good to keep His promise to never leave or forsake us! ::clappingoverhead::
: MeMyself Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 19:49:44
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:21:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
What do you make of the fact that what your "Jesus" told you contradicting what the Jesus of the bible says? He says HE is the way to the Father and that no one comes to Him but through Himself. We are also told in the scripture salvation is a gift from God and not of works so that no man can boast...that contradicts what you are saying "Jesus" told you as well.
This thread is about Christians sinning. It is not about a teaching that you believe to be true, that was never part of the Christian belief until Martin Luther, Calvin, and the likes.
You don't see it strange that it took Christian hundreds of years after Jesus died for Christians to come to the truth?
Wake up! Your understanding of the truth is hearsay.
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 20:01:11
: MeMyself Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 19:49:44
: Giver Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:21:12
: cs80918 Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 16:58:33
GIVER-what is the point of your thread? Are you trying to save people from hell?
I hope you can understand my answer. Many years ago Jesus personally started teaching me about him. Jesus in fact sat next to me and had me open the bible to where it tells us that Christians are dead to sin. Over the years he has let me understand just how important a teaching that is.
My point of the thread is to have people read what I post. Jesus told me to give a word and leave. My job is just to give a word to as many people as is possisible.
I am not a teacher or preacher. My only job is to obey Jesus. He tells me to post, and what to post. Lately Jesus has had me stress the teaching of Christians living with out sinning. He seems to be stressing that there is a great need for all Christians to become spiritual.
Jesus has told me a time is coming soon when man will suffer more then he has ever suffered. I am to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community will grow. He wants a place of safety for his people.
This word was given to me over thirty years ago. Lately there seems to be a much more urgency to my giving the word.
I truly have no personal agenda. In fact Jesus has to keep telling me not try to make people understand. Trying to get people to understand is just too much of a burden on me, and Jesus is telling me not to carry that burden that it is his burden.
I would stop sharing right now if Jesus would let me. What I do is not anything anyone would want to do.
What do you make of the fact that what your "Jesus" told you contradicting what the Jesus of the bible says? He says HE is the way to the Father and that no one comes to Him but through Himself. We are also told in the scripture salvation is a gift from God and not of works so that no man can boast...that contradicts what you are saying "Jesus" told you as well.
This thread is about Christians sinning. It is not about a teaching that you believe to be true, that was never part of the Christian belief until Martin Luther, Calvin, and the likes.
You don't see it strange that it took Christian hundreds of years after Jesus died for Christians to come to the truth?
Wake up! Your understanding of the truth is hearsay.
No..it is not. You make false claims of how long it took people to "come to truth". The disciples TOLD the way was Jesus! Paul after conversion did the same. It is the same message the Church (of true believers) tell to this day!
YOU are not understanding what Christ said and the claims He makes! You refuse to even acknowledge that Jesus said HE was THE way, THE TRUTH and THE life..He said NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT through HIM! We are told in Ephesians that salvation is a gift of God, not one of works so that NO MAN can boast!
Your understanding is what is hearsay! You preach a "Jesus" that contradicts scripture, Himself and what God told Paul to tell us about salvation! You preach a "Jesus" that says works are good enough...they are NOT! If they were, WHY did the Christ have to come at all? Why did He have to be humiliated and take on human form? Why did He have to walk the road of calvary, be beaten, spit on and mocked? Why did He have to die and be resurrected? If works are enough...that just seems so cruel of God and foolish of Jesus! God is not cruel and Jesus is no fool...
You preach a "Jesus" that says there is no forgiveness for sin. That is just false! There is nothing that supports your claim when you read the WHOLE Bible and understand its FULL message!
: Sinead Sat Nov 26, 2011 - 18:57:33
Giver, surely you know Jesus is in heaven? He doesn't make special trips back to earth.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Are you saying you believe He comes back every now and then?
He never died.
Jesus never died??? What?
Well, I certainly don't consider him dead.
Bittersweet, He isnt dead anymore, He rose from the dead.
: Sinead Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 05:29:28
Bittersweet, He isnt dead anymore, He rose from the dead.
Then where did he go? He was on earth and people witnessed that he is alive and well. On earth as it is in heaven.
I won't ever consider him dead and not among us.
If you dont believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then why do you think He came to earth? How do you think He has saved us from sin?
The Bible is very clear on this, are you saying you dont read or believe it?
: Sinead Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 05:35:57
If you dont believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then why do you think He came to earth? How do you think He has saved us from sin?
The Bible is very clear on this, are you saying you dont read or believe it?
I'm just saying that he's not dead and he is among us on earth. Where do you think he went after he resurrected? Did he just disappear off the face of the earth?
He's not dead anymore, He rose and went up to heaven. He is not here on the earth. If you do see Him please find Him and send him to my house (I expect to see Him in the flesh please) since you believe He is still here.
: Sinead Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 05:40:30If you do see Him please find Him and send him to my house (I expect to see Him in the flesh please) since you believe He is still here.
Do you think joking about him isn't a sin?
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
: chosenone Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 06:30:01
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
(John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
: Bitter Sweet Fri Nov 25, 2011 - 06:39:27
1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
: chosenone Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 06:30:01
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, "I know him,
: chosenone Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 06:30:01
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
::amen!:: , Chosen One! What you share is found in the scripture when read in context and used properly! Thank you for sharing this and bringing Truth back to the conversation. ::smile::
Jude 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 09:45:18
: chosenone Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 06:30:01
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
::amen!:: , Chosen One! What you share is found in the scripture when read in context and used properly! Thank you for sharing this and bringing Truth back to the conversation. ::smile::
Surprise people, Jesus/God made a home in me. By the way if you will read scripture, all of it you may learn something. But you know something even more important; let Jesus explain scripture and then you will understand the written Word of God.
(John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 10:27:56
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 09:45:18
: chosenone Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 06:30:01
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
::amen!:: , Chosen One! What you share is found in the scripture when read in context and used properly! Thank you for sharing this and bringing Truth back to the conversation. ::smile::
Surprise people, Jesus/God made a home in me. By the way if you will read scripture, all of it you may learn something. But you know something even more important; let Jesus explain scripture and then you will understand the written Word of God.
(John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 10:43:34
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 10:27:56
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 09:45:18
: chosenone Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 06:30:01
Jesus died, rose again, and ascended into heaven where he is with the Father. God is with us here now through the Holy Spirit. Befor Jesus went back to heaven, he told the disciples that it was better for them that He goes away, so that God would send a helper which is the Holy Spirit. If we are believers we have God through the Holy Spirit living in us. Jesus is not walking around the earth now, He is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of His Father.
::amen!:: , Chosen One! What you share is found in the scripture when read in context and used properly! Thank you for sharing this and bringing Truth back to the conversation. ::smile::
Surprise people, Jesus/God made a home in me. By the way if you will read scripture, all of it you may learn something. But you know something even more important; let Jesus explain scripture and then you will understand the written Word of God.
(John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
easy to understand, I agree! We who have accepted Him as Lord of our lives and invited Him into our hearts DO obey Him and what He calls us to do...and He forgives us when/if we stumble just like He promises to in very easy to understand terms as well! ::clappingoverhead:: (He does this because no sin can enter in)
He also put it in VERY easy to understand plain spoken terms when He said HE alone was the way to the Father, not works, not obedience, not our feeble attempts at sinlessness (because HE is the only sinless perfect Lamb of God)...HE alone is our access to the Father. ::smile::
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15
Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God. When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.
Colossians 2: 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness.
By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin. No sin can enter God's home.
Colossians 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:08:53
easy to understand, I agree! We who have accepted Him as Lord of our lives and invited Him into our hearts DO obey Him and what He calls us to do...and He forgives us when/if we stumble just like He promises to in very easy to understand terms as well! ::clappingoverhead:: (He does this because no sin can enter in)
He also put it in VERY easy to understand plain spoken terms when He said HE alone was the way to the Father, not works, not obedience, not our feeble attempts at sinlessness (because HE is the only sinless perfect Lamb of God)...HE alone is our access to the Father. ::smile::
Yes any you along with the people like Luther, Calvin, and the rest, all have chosen to misunderstand what only by Jesus can one get to the Father means.
There is so much scripture that tells us that one has to have the works or they will not enter into the kingdom of God. A sinner will never enter into God's kingdom.
You go one believing what man has taught you about God, and see where it gets you. Paul told us one couldn't come to know God unless God teaches him or her.
If one still sins they do not know God, and that is Scripture.
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
1 John 5:16-17 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
This we know is blasphemy. Going against someone with the fullness of Christ is going against Christ himself. We are constantly warned to control our tongues, not so easy to control the fingers we type with either.
Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:36:41
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:08:53
easy to understand, I agree! We who have accepted Him as Lord of our lives and invited Him into our hearts DO obey Him and what He calls us to do...and He forgives us when/if we stumble just like He promises to in very easy to understand terms as well! ::clappingoverhead:: (He does this because no sin can enter in)
He also put it in VERY easy to understand plain spoken terms when He said HE alone was the way to the Father, not works, not obedience, not our feeble attempts at sinlessness (because HE is the only sinless perfect Lamb of God)...HE alone is our access to the Father. ::smile::
Yes any you along with the people like Luther, Calvin, and the rest, all have chosen to misunderstand what only by Jesus can one get to the Father means.
There is so much scripture that tells us that one has to have the works or they will not enter into the kingdom of God. A sinner will never enter into God's kingdom.
You go one believing what man has taught you about God, and see where it gets you. Paul told us one couldn't come to know God unless God teaches him or her.
If one still sins they do not know God, and that is Scripture.
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
Many verses say that God chose "His elect" from before the world began.
One reason He did this was that He can see the end of man's history from the beginning.
Only these elected ones are the true Christians in God's eyes.
These elected ones do indeed sin from time to time,
and even an elect who is now a habitual sinner may repent later and return to be a sheep.
Let's consider 3 classes of people:
1) an elect who is a repentant sinner
2) an elect who is a habitual sinner (now)
3) not an elect who is a habitual sinner
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:50:20
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:36:41
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:08:53
easy to understand, I agree! We who have accepted Him as Lord of our lives and invited Him into our hearts DO obey Him and what He calls us to do...and He forgives us when/if we stumble just like He promises to in very easy to understand terms as well! ::clappingoverhead:: (He does this because no sin can enter in)
He also put it in VERY easy to understand plain spoken terms when He said HE alone was the way to the Father, not works, not obedience, not our feeble attempts at sinlessness (because HE is the only sinless perfect Lamb of God)...HE alone is our access to the Father. ::smile::
Yes any you along with the people like Luther, Calvin, and the rest, all have chosen to misunderstand what only by Jesus can one get to the Father means.
There is so much scripture that tells us that one has to have the works or they will not enter into the kingdom of God. A sinner will never enter into God's kingdom.
You go one believing what man has taught you about God, and see where it gets you. Paul told us one couldn't come to know God unless God teaches him or her.
If one still sins they do not know God, and that is Scripture.
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 14:05:16
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God. When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.
Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him.
By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin. No sin can enter God's home.
Read the following verse carefully. Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.
This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross. Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God. It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God! When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life. But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where His love made a way for us...
To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...
The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes Giver a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
: Thankfulldad Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:00:15
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God. When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.
Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him.
By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin. No sin can enter God's home.
Read the following verse carefully. Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.
This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross. Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God. It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God! When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life. But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where He made a way for us...
To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...
The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes him a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross.
Yes...it sure seems that way. :(
The book he loves to quote was written to counter what the gnostic teachers were trying to teach. They claimed they had a higher or deeper understanding of what it means to be spiritual...sound familiar?
I have hope for Giver though! God's word is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It is my hope that he really begin to read with a humble heart asking God to show him if there be any unclean way in him, so that he can understand and come to know the hope we've found. ::smile::
OK...giving this thread a rest for some cleanup.
You two go to your respective corners and when the bell rings come back out fighting again... ::smacking::
(http://www.nnhs65.com/CHRISTMAS/ani-xmas-ringing-bell.gif)
And by the way...
Merry Christmas. ::preachit::
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:05:32
: Thankfulldad Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:00:15
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God. When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.
Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him.
By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin. No sin can enter God's home.
Read the following verse carefully. Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.
This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross. Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God. It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God! When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life. But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where He made a way for us...
To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...
The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes him a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross.
Yes...it sure seems that way. :(
The book he loves to quote was written to counter what the gnostic teachers were trying to teach. They claimed they had a higher or deeper understanding of what it means to be spiritual...sound familiar?
I have hope for Giver though! God's word is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It is my hope that he really begin to read with a humble heart asking God to show him if there be any unclean way in him, so that he can understand and come to know the hope we've found. ::smile::
Do you deliberately commit any wrongdoing? If you do then you have never seen Jesus, nor do you know Jesus. Also if you deliberately sin you will never enter the Kingdom of God.
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
: John Zain Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 13:45:07
Many verses say that God chose "His elect" from before the world began.
One reason He did this was that He can see the end of man's history from the beginning.
Only these elected ones are the true Christians in God's eyes.
These elected ones do indeed sin from time to time,
and even an elect who is now a habitual sinner may repent later and return to be a sheep.
Let's consider 3 classes of people:
1) an elect who is a repentant sinner
2) an elect who is a habitual sinner (now)
3) not an elect who is a habitual sinner
What class are the blind in?
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
The blind are those who say they are without sin, and are hypocrites just like the pharisees.
: Sinead Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 05:23:30
The blind are those who say they are without sin, and are hypocrites just like the pharisees.
But Jesus's words, not yours, say the blind are not guilty of sin in John 9:14. I'm going to have to take God's word over yours.
The pharisees kept accusing the blind man of being a sinner but the blind man didn't know whether he was or not. He didn't care, he could see now. Jesus washes our guilt when we open our eyes, so we have a clean slate. That's why he had the man wash the mud off. Nobody can make us see but Jesus and that's when he makes his home in us. It's up to us to continue staying clean without mud in our eyes.
Jesus said this to the pharisees;
John 9:39 Jesus said,[a] "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.
When Jesus was talking to the pharisees he told them their guilt remained because they claimed to see. He told them that because they claimed to see and were still in sin that their guilt remained.
They claimed to have a relationship with God and yet Here He was right in front of them and they were rejecting Him.
: Sinead Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 06:14:08
When Jesus was talking to the pharisees he told them their guilt remained because they claimed to see. He told them that because they claimed to see and were still in sin that their guilt remained.
They claimed to have a relationship with God and yet Here He was right in front of them and they were rejecting Him.
Exactly, God is great! So instead of calling people blind, it's just best that we work together and love and help each other, the way Jesus treated the blind man. Jesus knows who is and who isn't blind, he will either open or shut our eyes when time comes for judgement.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 06:17:06
: Sinead Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 06:14:08
When Jesus was talking to the pharisees he told them their guilt remained because they claimed to see. He told them that because they claimed to see and were still in sin that their guilt remained.
They claimed to have a relationship with God and yet Here He was right in front of them and they were rejecting Him.
Exactly, God is great! So instead of calling people blind, it's just best that we work together and love and help each other, the way Jesus treated the blind man. Jesus knows who is and who isn't blind, he will either open or shut our eyes when time comes for judgement.
Yes He does.
: Sinead Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 06:20:26
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 06:17:06
: Sinead Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 06:14:08
When Jesus was talking to the pharisees he told them their guilt remained because they claimed to see. He told them that because they claimed to see and were still in sin that their guilt remained.
They claimed to have a relationship with God and yet Here He was right in front of them and they were rejecting Him.
Exactly, God is great! So instead of calling people blind, it's just best that we work together and love and help each other, the way Jesus treated the blind man. Jesus knows who is and who isn't blind, he will either open or shut our eyes when time comes for judgement.
Yes He does.
Not only that, the pharisees just couldn't believe that it happened by washing the mud off his eyes and it cleaned him of sin too. How can he not have any sin with sight? They didn't understand, but most importantly they didn't believe it was possible.
Some people he tells to go and sin no more. Those people are gone working on it. But the blind, instant sight and freedom from their past sins.
When we don't realize what we are doing is a sin and then Jesus cures us, we aren't guilty of it anymore. And we aren't hypocrites because we've been there and we understand what the other is going through. We know we can't blame them because Jesus didn't blame us.
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 04:33:20
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:05:32
: Thankfulldad Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:00:15
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God. When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.
Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him.
By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin. No sin can enter God's home.
Read the following verse carefully. Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.
This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross. Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God. It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God! When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life. But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where He made a way for us...
To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...
The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes him a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross.
Yes...it sure seems that way. :(
The book he loves to quote was written to counter what the gnostic teachers were trying to teach. They claimed they had a higher or deeper understanding of what it means to be spiritual...sound familiar?
I have hope for Giver though! God's word is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It is my hope that he really begin to read with a humble heart asking God to show him if there be any unclean way in him, so that he can understand and come to know the hope we've found. ::smile::
Do you deliberately commit any wrongdoing? If you do then you have never seen Jesus, nor do you know Jesus. Also if you deliberately sin you will never enter the Kingdom of God.
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 04:33:20
: MeMyself Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:05:32
: Thankfulldad Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:00:15
: Giver Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 11:00:15Jesus gave me his Holy Spirit, and he and the Holy Spirit taught me to live the whole Word of God. When I matured to the spiritual person God wanted me to be, God came and made his home in me.
Jesus told us that he would make his home in those who love him.
By the way God's home is not open to Satan/sin. No sin can enter God's home.
Read the following verse carefully. Jesus said it, and not like Paul's words, which people can't understand, Jesus made it easy to read.
This is all well and good regarding spiritual growth; regardless...everything regarding "Salvation" must point back to the cross of our Lord...there, He took on the sins of man and nailed them to the cross. Our redemption was made perfect there...it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God. It was there that our sins were forgiven and the atonement took place...it was there that our Salvation was secured; it was there on the cross where Jesus said "it is finished"...it was there that our salvation was freely given...a pure gift of God! When once we receive through a God given faith...and trust in His death for our sins...Gods Spirit works through us and gives us life. But this life (eternal life)...is not possible; without faith in the cross of our Lord, where He made a way for us...
To say that one must not sin to receive eternal life...is blasphemy to God's plan of Salvation, and makes God a liar...
The fact that Giver cannot point his salvation back to the cross...makes him a liar, a deceiver, one of the antichrist and sadly...an enemy of the cross.
Yes...it sure seems that way. :(
The book he loves to quote was written to counter what the gnostic teachers were trying to teach. They claimed they had a higher or deeper understanding of what it means to be spiritual...sound familiar?
I have hope for Giver though! God's word is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword. It is my hope that he really begin to read with a humble heart asking God to show him if there be any unclean way in him, so that he can understand and come to know the hope we've found. ::smile::
Do you deliberately commit any wrongdoing? If you do then you have never seen Jesus, nor do you know Jesus. Also if you deliberately sin you will never enter the Kingdom of God.
(1 John 3:5-6) "Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven?
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven?
Philippians 3:18-19...For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.
Why are you an enemy of the Cross of Christ?
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven?
That's where he died. I am so sorry everyone for saying that he never died once, I totally forgot.
I keep eternity in mind because that's where I am with him. ::smile::
Thank you God for Giver.
Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too
God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:56:45
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven?
That's where he died. I am so sorry everyone for saying that he never died once, I totally forgot. I keep eternity in mind because that's where I am with him. ::smile::
Thank you God for Giver.
Philippians 3:15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
Galatians 6:12-15...Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet the want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
The cross is where Jesus made a way for us to have a relationship with God. Without the cross...our sins would not be forgiven; we would be without hope. Many try to make an outward impression that they are without sin...to avoid the cross of Christ. Few...very few trust in the cross; "but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13). It was on the cross that the blood of Christ cleansed us from all unrighteousness...and made a way for us to be crucified with Him; saved by the blood...we are now children of the Most High; a new creation in Him...
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:18:46
Galatians 6:12-15...Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet the want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
The cross is where Jesus made a way for us to have a relationship with God. Without the cross...our sins would not be forgiven; we would be without hope. Many try to make an outward impression that they are without sin...to avoid the cross of Christ. Few...very few trust in the cross; "but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13). It was on the cross that the blood of Christ cleansed us from all unrighteousness...and made a way for us to be crucified with Him; saved by the blood...we are now children of the Most High.
I don't disagree with this at all. I only disagree with people using it as an excuse to continue in sin. Jesus tells us to sin no more and we have to live up to it. I won't take his death for granted, he died because the sinners killed him. We can't be like them when we are with him. Sin opposes him, is against him, not with him.
It's not hard, Jesus promised us his yoke is easy and his burden light. It is accomplish-able, Jesus promised us and washed sin from us. How can he wash us and we continue to be filthy?
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:31:24
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:18:46
Galatians 6:12-15...Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet the want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.
The cross is where Jesus made a way for us to have a relationship with God. Without the cross...our sins would not be forgiven; we would be without hope. Many try to make an outward impression that they are without sin...to avoid the cross of Christ. Few...very few trust in the cross; "but now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ" (Ephesians 2:13). It was on the cross that the blood of Christ cleansed us from all unrighteousness...and made a way for us to be crucified with Him; saved by the blood...we are now children of the Most High.
I don't disagree with this at all. I only disagree with people using it as an excuse to continue in sin. Jesus tells us to sin no more and we have to live up to it. I won't take his death for granted, he died because the sinners killed him. We can't be like them when we are with him.
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus. But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross. It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.
Ephesians 2:8...For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith...and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God...9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan. Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness. Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus. But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross. It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.
The bible says it.
1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.
If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I
was a sinner, then he made my body his home.
Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:53:52
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus. But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross. It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.
The bible says it.
1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.
If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.
Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.
And what did God do to make a way for us to become a new creation?
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan. Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness. Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.
Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:58:07
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan. Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness. Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.
Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.
No...Giver is condemning us to Hell
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:59:25
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:58:07
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan. Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness. Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.
Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.
No...Giver is condemning us to Hell
He wouldn't want that for his worst enemies. None of us do. ::smile::
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:05:53
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:59:25
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:58:07
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
Be careful...please be very careful not to fall into a trap layed out there by satan. Satan is the accuser...those who would condemn Christians because of sin, are from the powers of darkness. Their only purpose is to discount the cross of Jesus Christ.
Nobody is accusing you of anything. But when we are told we are wrong, that's an accusation.
No...Giver is condemning us to Hell
He wouldn't want that for his worst enemies. None of us do. ::smile::
Then why would he discount the cross of Christ where God made a way for us to have a relationship with Him and become a new creation?
He claims Jesus sat down beside him and instructed him; there have been a few out there claiming such a thing...and they all lead us away from the cross.
He is deceived...please do not follow him
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:57:12
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:53:52
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus. But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross. It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.
The bible says it.
1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.
If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.
Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.
And what did God do to make a way for us to become a new creation?
He gave his son so that we can have eternal life. God is in Jesus and Jesus is in us. Father, Son and you, the holy spirit. We can't be sinners with so much holiness in us. We can't call ourselves sinners, you don't have to say it out loud. But God gives us a quiet reassurance that what we are sharing isn't of this world, is it?
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:13:43
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:57:12
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:53:52
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 11:39:01
No Christian is looking for an excuse to sin; sin causes pain...sin hurts others...sin truly disgusts those who are in Christ Jesus. But, to say that one must not sin to enter into the kingdom of heaven is a lie from the pit of Hell...and makes one an enemy of the cross. It voids what Jesus did for us...and takes away the free gift of Salvation given to us by God.
The bible says it.
1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Were is past tense, when we are washed our bodies become Jesus's temple.
If you were never any of that, then you were without sin and shouldn't worry about getting into the kingdom, no? I was that and Jesus made me clean. I won't insult him by contradicting what he did for me by saying I am a sinner. I was a sinner, then he made my body his home.
Christ wants to live in all of us, but he can't put new wine in old skins. He puts new wine in new skins.
And what did God do to make a way for us to become a new creation?
He gave his son so that we can have eternal life. God is in Jesus and Jesus is in us. Father, Son and you, the holy spirit. We can't be sinners with so much holiness in us. We can't call ourselves sinners, you don't have to say it out loud. But God gives us a quiet reassurance that what we are sharing isn't of this world, is it?
Lust is a sin, covet is a sin, envy is a sin, missing the mark is a sin...now, can you honestly say you never sin?
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:12:06
He is deceived...please do not follow him
I wasn't following him, I was following God's voice and found Giver sitting there. I already was given by Jesus what he was sharing. This isn't new to me. Giver is a holy man, blessed and has a lot of courage.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:17:24
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:12:06
He is deceived...please do not follow him
I wasn't following him, I was following God's voice and found Giver sitting there. I already was given by Jesus what he was sharing. This isn't new to me. Giver is a holy man, blessed and has a lot of courage.
So...Jesus sat next to you too?
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:16:35
Lust is a sin, covet is a sin, envy is a sin, missing the mark is a sin...now, can you honestly say you never sin?
I don't have any desires, I only enjoy my family and food, only cooking and tasting, not over indulging in it. I don't know what you mean by missing the mark?
If I sin unwittingly because I am blind to it being a sin, missing the mark perhaps??? Jesus will wipe it clean from me and I won't do it anymore. Because I know Jesus continually cleanses me when necessary.
Am I totally sin free? I don't know, but that keeps me exempt from any sin I may be doing unwittingly.
John 9:41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:21:38
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:17:24
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:12:06
He is deceived...please do not follow him
I wasn't following him, I was following God's voice and found Giver sitting there. I already was given by Jesus what he was sharing. This isn't new to me. Giver is a holy man, blessed and has a lot of courage.
So...Jesus sat next to you too?
There are times he is in us and times when he is next to us. Please don't make fun of something you may not understand.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:27:14
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:16:35
Lust is a sin, covet is a sin, envy is a sin, missing the mark is a sin...now, can you honestly say you never sin?
I don't have any desires, I only enjoy my family and food, only cooking and tasting, not over indulging in it. I don't know what you mean by missing the mark?
If I sin unwittingly because I am blind to it being a sin, missing the mark perhaps??? Jesus will wipe it clean from me and I won't do it anymore. Because I know Jesus continually cleanses me when necessary.
Am I totally sin free? I don't know, but that keeps me exempt from any sin I may be doing unwittingly.
John 9:41 Jesus said, If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
What gives eternal life?
The cross of Jesus for the atonement of our sins...
or
Bitter sweet not sinning for the atonement of your sins...
It must be one or the other...no wiggle room please...
The following does not say that because Jesus died on the cross and one believes he did they will enter the kingdom of God.
New American Bible
(Ephesians 2:13) "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ.
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:33:05
The following does not say that because Jesus died on the cross and one believes he did they will enter the kingdom of God.
New American Bible
(Ephesians 2:13) "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ.
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:31:30
What gives eternal life?
Hebrews 9:27 And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment
All you have to do is die one time. But that doesn't guarantee eternal life. If you think continuing to call yourself a sinner will take you there, then so be it. But remember, Gods ways are not like man's ways.
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:41:38
: Giver Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 10:25:13
Can anyone show me, using the written Word of God, that believing Jesus died on the cross will gain him or her the kingdom of Heaven?
Philippians 3:18-19...For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.
Why are you an enemy of the Cross of Christ?
::clappingoverhead:: That's gotta hurt! ::amen!::
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:38:34
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:31:30
What gives eternal life?
Hebrews 9:7 And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment
All you have to do is die one time. ::smile::
Love the way you and Giver dance around what Jesus did for us on the cross...and want to put the emphasis on your holiness. Are you an enemy of the cross?
If this isnt enough then maybe I can find some more translations!!!!!!
1 john 1v8
Amplified
if we say we have no sin(refusing to admit that we are sinners), we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth(which the gospel presents) is not in us (does not dwell in our hearts.
English Standard Version (©2001)
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
International Standard Version (©2008)
If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we're not being truthful to ourselves.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And if we shall say we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If we say, "We aren't sinful" we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
American King James Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
American Standard Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:47:55
Love the way you and Giver dance around what Jesus did for us on the cross...and want to put the emphasis on your holiness. Are you an enemy of the cross?
Do you actually think that people filled with the holy spirit aren't holy? I think an enemy of God will not be made holy.
Anyone claiming that they know Jesus, have the holy spirit and know God's word must be holy or just anyone can do this? Just like anyone can be saved by just saying Jesus saved me and I'm still a sinner?
: chosenone Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 13:19:54
If this isnt enough then maybe I can find some more translations!!!!!!
English Standard Version (©2001)
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
International Standard Version (©2008)
If we say that we do not have any sin, we are deceiving ourselves and we're not being truthful to ourselves.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And if we shall say we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If we say, "We aren't sinful" we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
American King James Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
American Standard Version
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Chosenone, I never said I am sin free. I said I don't know whether I am or not because if I sin, I do it unwittingly. Jesus will clean it from me and I will stop doing it, he will open my eyes to it. I am still blind in things. If one say's their eyes are open, then they are left with their guilt. I don't know everything, all I know is that Jesus washes the sin from me when I am made aware of it by him.
Do we know what every single sin is? No, we only know the basics, adultery, slander, ect. Most of us don't do those already.
So don't make yourself guilty of something you don't know. None of us know. If you say you are a sinner, you are still guilty of something, if you say you don't sin, you are guilty, BUT if you are blind to some sins, then you aren't guilty. You don't know, Jesus isn't done with us, he's with us to the end.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 13:23:53
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 12:47:55
Love the way you and Giver dance around what Jesus did for us on the cross...and want to put the emphasis on your holiness. Are you an enemy of the cross?
Do you actually think that people filled with the holy spirit aren't holy? I think an enemy of God will not be made holy.
Anyone claiming that they know Jesus, have the holy spirit and know God's word must be holy or just anyone can do this? Just like anyone can be saved by just saying Jesus saved me and I'm still a sinner?
Salvation is easy...because it cost God so much; Jesus was without sin...though for our sake He became sin...and His blood covers us. For those who trust in the shed blood of Jesus for forgiveness of their sins...they will be saved.
Those who trust in their efforts; and believe me...billions do...will not see the kingdom of God. Only those who trust in the blood of Jesus are given the Holy Spirit of God. It is then...after salvation is given as a gift, that we grow spiritually in Jesus Christ. It is growth in Him that makes us Holy...but, our salvation is secured already; anyone who says they know Him but reject the cross and replace it with self...is decieved.
Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
Really, is that what the holy spirit is saying, people sin unwittingly? Sounds like a holy thing to me with all those high priests. So does that mean the first tabernacle isn't functioning? I'm confused, please no one try to explain it to me. I get my information from other sources.
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!
28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:17:12
Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
Really, is that what the holy spirit is saying, people sin unwittingly? Sounds like a holy thing to me with all those high priests. So does that mean the first tabernacle isn't functioning? I'm confused, please no one try to explain it to me. I get my information from other sources.
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!
28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Why did you skipped verse 15???
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Jesus set us free; not...me not sinning will set me free!
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:36:31
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:17:12
Hebrews 9:7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
Really, is that what the holy spirit is saying, people sin unwittingly? Sounds like a holy thing to me with all those high priests. So does that mean the first tabernacle isn't functioning? I'm confused, please no one try to explain it to me. I get my information from other sources.
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!
28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Why did you skipped verse 15???
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Jesus set us free; not...me not sinning will set me free!
Idk why I skipped, maybe just didn't want to post all the scripture.
What do you think freedom is if it's isn't being free of sin? I've heard of slave to sin but not free in sin.
Romans 6:18 You have been
set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
He isn't bearing sin the second time around. What makes you think he's going to be ok with it?
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 14:36:31
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance...now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Jesus set us free; not...me not sinning will set me free!
I dont' know how much more clear Giver needs it to be...the verse you shared uses reference to Christ's death as a ransom, this verse from the same book also speaks of His death; "28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." speaks of Him being sacrificed to take away the sins of many. Romans 10:9 says "believe in your heart that God raised Him from the *dead* and you will be saved". How did He die? ON THE CROSS! He said "It is finished" because His death paid the ransom (or penalty) for our sin (missing the mark of Holiness that God requires) He is the ONLY one who was Holy enough to do so!
The cross is where the Perfect Lamb of God was sacrificed once for all as atonement for the sins of the world. He came to SAVE the world, not condemn it! He SAID He was the only way!
Here are more verses that explain how to attain salvation, Giver, and the importance of Christ dying on the cross to save us.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 4:25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made the one who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the right-eousness of God.
1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit.
Hebrews 9:22 22 In fact, we can say that according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified by sprinkling with blood. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
And, why our own works just don't cut it:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5-7 he saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. (we NEED a savior!)
The importance of believing that He is who He said He is:
John 1:12 But to all who have received him--those who believe in his name--he has given the right to become God's children
John 3:16-18 For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
How to be saved:
Romans 10:9-11 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 15:36:14Idk why I skipped, maybe just didn't want to post all the scripture.
What do you think freedom is if it's isn't being free of sin? I've heard of slave to sin but not free in sin.
Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
He isn't bearing sin the second time around. What makes you think he's going to be ok with it?
You talk as if I am ok with sin; I HATE SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that clear?
Regardless; we are saved by the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...Salvation is through Him......NOT through me not sinning!
Thank you MeMyself for the scriptures you posted....excellent and manna to you!
: MeMyself Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 15:59:25
Here are more verses that explain how to attain salvation, Giver, and the importance of Christ dying on the cross to save us.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 4:25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made the one who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the right-eousness of God.
1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit.
Hebrews 9:22 22 In fact, we can say that according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified by sprinkling with blood. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
And, why our own works just don't cut it:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5-7 he saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. (we NEED a savior!)
The importance of believing that He is who He said He is:
John 1:12 But to all who have received him--those who believe in his name--he has given the right to become God's children
John 3:16-18 For this is the way God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
How to be saved:
Romans 10:9-11 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,
::doh::
WOW, Giver. Well, I presented the WORD in FULL, with God's salvation message and standards and you spit on His purpose and plan and call it garbage. ::frown::
I see your heels are dug in and you are right in your own eyes. It appears you think you *are* equal to the holiness of God..so I've only one thing left that I can think of to say to you at this point;
Good luck with that! :(
: MeMyself Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 21:03:59
::doh::
WOW, Giver. Well, I presented the WORD in FULL, with God's salvation message and standards and you spit on His purpose and plan and call it garbage. ::frown::
I see your heels are dug in and you are right in your own eyes. It appears you think you *are* equal to the holiness of God..so I've only one thing left that I can think of to say to you at this point;
Good luck with that! :(
I believe it is time to give Giver over to God...like Paul states in Galatians 5:11...Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Paul defended the cross of our Lord; Giver defends himself not sinning...
We all now know what Paul wishes upon those who abolish the cross......ouch!
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 16:07:00
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 15:36:14Idk why I skipped, maybe just didn't want to post all the scripture.
What do you think freedom is if it's isn't being free of sin? I've heard of slave to sin but not free in sin.
Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
He isn't bearing sin the second time around. What makes you think he's going to be ok with it?
You talk as if I am ok with sin; I HATE SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that clear?
Regardless; we are saved by the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...Salvation is through Him......NOT through me not sinning!
Thank you MeMyself for the scriptures you posted....excellent and manna to you!
If you sin unwittingly, you aren't guilty of it. I don't think you are ok with it, most of us here hate it and kick ourselves when we become aware of doing something we shouldn't have been doing, simple commands we just aren't consciously aware of even though we have read them over and over again in the bible.
Don't you ever realize you are doing something you should not have been doing after reading the bible? Not the big things, but the little things we do like not testing spirits because it just isn't politically correct? Or because it's our friend on the internet and so we just agree with their entire lifestyle? Do you love this world? Does this world hate you?
Hebrews 3: 12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called "Today,
Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.[a] 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
"So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.'
: Bitter Sweet Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 02:56:37
: Thankfulldad Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 16:07:00
: Bitter Sweet Mon Nov 28, 2011 - 15:36:14Idk why I skipped, maybe just didn't want to post all the scripture.
What do you think freedom is if it's isn't being free of sin? I've heard of slave to sin but not free in sin.
Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
He isn't bearing sin the second time around. What makes you think he's going to be ok with it?
You talk as if I am ok with sin; I HATE SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that clear?
Regardless; we are saved by the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ...Salvation is through Him......NOT through me not sinning!
Thank you MeMyself for the scriptures you posted....excellent and manna to you!
If you sin unwittingly, you aren't guilty of it. I don't think you are ok with it, most of us here hate it and kick ourselves when we become aware of doing something we shouldn't have been doing, simple commands we just aren't consciously aware of even though we have read them over and over again in the bible.
Don't you ever realize you are doing something you should not have been doing after reading the bible? Not the big things, but the little things we do like not testing spirits because it just isn't politically correct? Or because it's our friend on the internet and so we just agree with their entire lifestyle? Do you love this world? Does this world hate you?
I understand what you are saying; yes...we all struggle with sin in our life...not that we want to sin, but that sin is in us all by nature. That is why Jesus came and did what He did for us; He became sin...though He was without sin...and He did that on the cross. See how important the cross is to the believer...it was there our sins were forgiven, it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God.
When we trust in Jesus alone for Salvation...God supernaturally gives us His Spirit; and the sanctification in our lives begin. Never trust anything but God's grace in you and in others...because we all need His grace.
: Thankfulldad Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 09:06:02
I understand what you are saying; yes...we all struggle with sin in our life...not that we want to sin, but that sin is in us all by nature.
But you don't do the big things like murder and adultery, wanting your neighbors car. But there are things that are a part of our nature like gossiping. Some of us never think twice about it even though we know God doesn't like it and tells us not to do. We keep doing it until we realize it's wrong. Even though we've read it hundreds of times, we just never opened our eyes to it. When we do finally stop gossiping, it just hits us like a ton of bricks, it's Jesus washing us. He's going to continually keep us clean but it also takes discipline on our part, otherwise the bible wouldn't stress the importance of keeping our tongue in control.
That is why Jesus came and did what He did for us; He became sin...though He was without sin...and He did that on the cross. See how important the cross is to the believer...it was there our sins were forgiven, it was there that Jesus brought us back into a right relationship with God.
Yes, but it's all in vain if we don't discipline ourselves and control ourselves. We have to continually obey God's words still. We aren't excused from deliberately sinning.
When we trust in Jesus alone for Salvation...God supernaturally gives us His Spirit; and the sanctification in our lives begin. Never trust anything but God's grace in you and in others...because we all need His grace.
Yes and I don't think you are a sinner, you may do some sin unwittingly and that leaves you guiltless. You know the saying, if you keep telling yourself something over and over you are going to believe it and be it. Jesus doesn't want you to be a sinner, the sinners are who killed him, we aren't them. I know you aren't on his opposers side so stop saying you are.
We aren't perfect, God knows this, that's why we are excused by our ignorance. I would rather be blind than think I know the right way. How many Christians have ever admitted to you that they themselves are blind? They don't tell you that do they? But I am telling you that I am blind and that's what keeps me perfect in his love.
::smile::
: Bitter Sweet Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 13:26:45
We aren't perfect, God knows this, that's why we are excused by our ignorance. I would rather be blind than think I know the right way. How many Christians have ever admitted to you that they themselves are blind? They don't tell you that do they? But I am telling you that I am blind and that's what keeps me perfect in his love.
::smile::
This is just the thing; we are not excused...we are all guilty deserving of eternal punishment. That is why God made a way...His plan of Salvation for us; He sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins...there is no other way to God...no other way to the Father...to other way to eternal life. ONE way...Jesus.
Being blind of sin is no excuse for a person to think that He or She is good enough to enter the kingdom of Heaven...Jesus in the narrow door, the only way.
: Thankfulldad Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 13:42:45
Being blind of sin is no excuse for a person to think that He or She is good enough to enter the kingdom of Heaven...Jesus in the narrow door, the only way.
That's contrary to what the bible tells me.
John 9: 41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
The pharisees kept insisting the blind man was a sinner, not Jesus.
: Bitter Sweet Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 13:56:39
: Thankfulldad Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 13:42:45
Being blind of sin is no excuse for a person to think that He or She is good enough to enter the kingdom of Heaven...Jesus in the narrow door, the only way.
That's contrary to what the bible tells me.
John 9: 41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
The pharisees kept insisting the blind man was a sinner, not Jesus.
But now you claim to see...
The narrow door into Heaven in Jesus death on the cross for our sins...do you believe that?
: Thankfulldad Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 14:09:04
But now you claim to see...
When did I say that? I told you that I would rather be blind than say I know everything is right or wrong.
You are sure your way is the right way? I'm not going to debate what you believe however...
I will do my best to constantly correct myself as the spirit moves me. I won't repeat my mistakes when I realize they are a mistake and I will take all of God's words to heart and not just a couple that I believe are my ticket into the kingdom.
You keep repeating the cross, but what are you doing to make it of any value in your life?
All you people with your human reasoning which makes excuses and logistical human exception for doing wrong, need to stop.
Paul told us how impossible it is for man to defeat Satan/sin in Romans seven. He explained that man just is no able with his will power not to sin.
Paul in Romans eight tells us how it is that Jesus made it possible to defeat Satan/sin. How is it that so few people fail to see how God made it so we would never sin again?
It seems that people just want to be able sin. Yet people say they love God.
John tells us that if one sins they have never seen or known God. Yet sinners on this forum keep insisting that they know God, and love God?
John tells us that if one sins he or she is of the devil, how is it then that people who sin can still say they are God's children?
Sinners take so many of Paul's writings and read them in such a way as to make sinners some of those entering into the kingdom of heaven.
Peter warned us about such people.
(2 Peter 3:15-16) "Think of our Lord's patience as your opportunity to be saved: our brother Paul, who is so dear to us, told you this when he wrote to you with the wisdom that is his special gift. He always writes like this when he deals with this sort of subject, and this makes some points in his letter hard to understand; these are the points that uneducated and unbalanced people distort, in the same way as they distort the rest of scripture a fatal thing for them to do.
: Bitter Sweet Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 14:27:34
You keep repeating the cross, but what are you doing to make it of any value in your life?
The cross is where our Lord laid down His life for us; the value in the cross is almost impossible to express in human terms...it is where God's perfect plan of Salvation unfolded. The effect of the cross is Salvation, sanctification, healing and so much more. We are to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified; God made a way for us to have a relationship with Him through the cross of Jesus. Everything in the Christian experience must point back to the cross...the cross shook the foundations of Hell and satan's battle was lost. Satan now must discredit the cross in order to fool the foolish...and destroy the hope of the hopeful.
Please take some time to understand what the cross of our Lord did for you. It was there that God has given me eternal life...I would say that is of great value in my life. It was there that God made a way for me to have a relationship with Him...I would say that is of great value in my life. It was there that Jesus finished the work of Salvation...I would say that is of great value in my life. It was there that God now can forgives us of sin...I would say that is of great value in my life. It was there that God showed His love...by giving Himself up for us; I would say that is of great value in my life.
Everything points back to the cross for those who trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of sin...and for life everlasting.
For those who trust in God's perfect plan of salvation; God gives us His Spirit...and He begins a marvelous work in our life; I would say that is of great value...because He shows us right from wrong...good from evil...those decieved and those who have it right. All...because of the cross of Jesus...
Never trust anyone that is an enemy of the cross; their god is their stomach and their glory is in their shame...
Beware of anyone taking God's plan and making it all about them; for example...I am good, I don't sin, I trust in myself, it is all about me, and so on. That is satan hard at work to destroy God's perfect plan...and make it about self. Self always gets in the way of God working in a persons life...
If you have been forgiven of sin, why do you continue to say you are a sinner? Doesn't that nullify the value of the cross in your life?
: Bitter Sweet Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 18:43:38
If you have been forgiven of sin, why do you continue to say you are a sinner? Doesn't that nullify the value of the cross in your life?
I said I hate sin...
Nothing can separate us from the love of God; I am His child...saved by grace through the blood of Jesus. That is where I rest...confident in His finished work and thankful for the work He is doing right now in my life...
: Thankfulldad Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 18:48:23
: Bitter Sweet Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 18:43:38
If you have been forgiven of sin, why do you continue to say you are a sinner? Doesn't that nullify the value of the cross in your life?
I said I hate sin...
Nothing can separate us from the love of God; I am His child...saved by grace through the blood of Jesus. That is where I rest...confident in His finished work and thankful for the work He is doing right now in my life...
::smile::
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:12:46
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:19:55
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:12:46
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:19:55
Notice sanctity and perfection.
My witness is that Jesus has made his home in me and he guides everything that I do. I only do what Jesus tells me to do. I gave my life to Jesus a long time ago, and he took that life, and does what he will with my live.
That is all well and good that you can witness to yourself; problem is...many of us as God's children see a different witness...one of lies and deceit...
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:44:00
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:19:55
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:12:46
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 14:06:04You should know that I have had many revelations from Jesus. My wife had two visits from Mary the mother of our Lord.
Ok...this just broke the camels back; and you have been exposed (again) as "one" of many who have been deceived. Mary...the mother of our Lord; can not...will not...ever visit anyone on this earth. Are you serious?
Ephesians 6:11...Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the ruler, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Satan hates the cross of Jesus because of what was accomplished there...beware of anyone who discredits the cross of Jesus; and becomes an enemy of the cross.
Their god is their stomach and their glory is in their shame...the Apostle Paul wishes they would go all the way and emasculate themself...
Giver......God have mercy on your soul ::frown::
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:47:45
That is all well and good that you can witness to yourself; problem is...many of us as God's children see a different witness...one of lies and deceit...
Just because you think you are excused from sinning doesn't mean you have a right to slander people. It's a command God has for his children.
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 14:06:04
My wife had two visits from Mary the mother of our Lord.
Oh brother. ::frown::
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 14:06:04
There is a spiritual walk with God that most people don't even know that exist, and part of my job is to bring this knowledge to people.
WOW, so why didn't Jesus cover this that most people don't know about? Did God not get the message clear enough in His word that both He AND His son need this new revelation from you? ::shrug::
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:09
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:47:45
That is all well and good that you can witness to yourself; problem is...many of us as God's children see a different witness...one of lies and deceit...
Just because you think you are excused from sinning doesn't mean you have a right to slander people. It's a command God has for his children.
Where have I said we are excused from sinning? Lord help me ::smile::...sin hurts others, sin brings pain, sin results in lying and deceit. Once again, we are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good. I HATE sin...
But when an demon of darkness is maskerating as Jesus and Mary...fooling others by spreading a false Gospel which is dependent on us not sinnng for salvation...we are called to expose them, and proclaim the truth!
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:09
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:47:45
That is all well and good that you can witness to yourself; problem is...many of us as God's children see a different witness...one of lies and deceit...
Just because you think you are excused from sinning doesn't mean you have a right to slander people. It's a command God has for his children.
By the way...I recall you saying that you are blind to some sins; and that is your excuse for when you sin and don't realize it. Are you really excused from those sins?
Maybe the cross would mean more to you if you knew Jesus covered them all ::smile::
'My wife had two visits from Mary the mother of our Lord'
.
I would be seriously concerned about this, because whatever visited your wife it wasnt Mary, but probably an evil spirit pretending to be Mary. Mary has died and is with God in heaven, not appearing on the earth.
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:58:11
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:09
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:47:45
That is all well and good that you can witness to yourself; problem is...many of us as God's children see a different witness...one of lies and deceit...
Just because you think you are excused from sinning doesn't mean you have a right to slander people. It's a command God has for his children.
Where have I said we are excused from sinning? Lord help me ::smile::...sin hurts others, sin brings pain, sin results in lying and deceit. Once again, we are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good. I HATE sin...
But when an demon of darkness is maskerating as Jesus and Mary...fooling others by spreading a false Gospel which is dependent on us not sinnng for salvation...we are called to expose them, and proclaim the truth!
Amen.
Those who claim they are sinless and that we all need to be sinless are not reading the Bible. Jesus died for us and became our saviour BECAUSE we are sinners and we always will be no matter how hard we try not to be. None of us will be sinless until we get to heaven. Its arrogant and proud to claim we can achieve what Jesus alone has achieved.
I am always VERY VERY uneasy when anyone claims to have had extra 'divine revelation' that apparently no one else has had. Thats how the cults start. Think mormons.Think Joseph Smith who claimed the very same thing.If any claims are made that are not Biblical then we can safely ignore them.
: chosenone Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:32:28If any claims are made that are not Biblical then we can safely ignore them.
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
Is God's will for us to sin? Is God's will for us to continue being sinners? We can't safely ignore God's word. What's so unbiblical about being Holy?
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 14:06:04
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:44:00
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:19:55
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:12:46
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:58:11
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:09
: Thankfulldad Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:47:45
That is all well and good that you can witness to yourself; problem is...many of us as God's children see a different witness...one of lies and deceit...
Just because you think you are excused from sinning doesn't mean you have a right to slander people. It's a command God has for his children.
Where have I said we are excused from sinning? Lord help me ::smile::...sin hurts others, sin brings pain, sin results in lying and deceit. Once again, we are to hate what is evil and cling to what is good. I HATE sin...
But when an demon of darkness is maskerating as Jesus and Mary...fooling others by spreading a false Gospel which is dependent on us not sinnng for salvation...we are called to expose them, and proclaim the truth!
First, I agree with the "false gospel" part of what you say as regards Givers pronouncements here as to his claims that he is not a sinner.
I would ask you however, that with an open mind you consider the case of Padre Pio, a priest who had the stigmata, which are the wounds of Christ. Or maybe the case of Sister Faustina, a nun who claimed private revelations from Our Lord as regards the "Divine Mercy", a series of revelations detailing the ultimate and everlasting love God has for us. Is it not at all possible that such things could have happened?
As one who believes in the Virgin birth, with the Holy Spirit "coming upon" a Jewish maiden, I am not in a position to discount any thing that God might choose to do. While these private revelations are not considered to be "dogma", they can be accepted by the faithful as communications from God.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 08:00:07
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
Read the context of that verse. It is a healed man talking to pharasees. He makes that assertation which is presumably the common understanding taught in the synagogues of the day (taught by pharasees). That does not make it so unless you can find an OT verse supporting it.
Jn 9.30 The man answered and said to them, "Well, here is an amazing thing, that you do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes.
31 We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
32 Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind.
33 If this man were not from God, He could do nothing.
: DaveW Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:24:17
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 08:00:07
John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
Read the context of that verse. It is a healed man talking to pharasees. He makes that assertation which is presumably the common understanding taught in the synagogues of the day (taught by pharasees). That does not make it so unless you can find an OT verse supporting it.
Jn 9.30 The man answered and said to them, "Well, here is an amazing thing, that you do not know where He is from, and yet He opened my eyes.
31 We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
32 Since the beginning of time it has never been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a person born blind.
33 If this man were not from God, He could do nothing.
GIVER- A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.
The tactic or method is as follows.
Convince christians that they must be sinless to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Deceive Giver into thinking he is sinless.
Christians will work hard to be sinless and will fail and they will fell bad all their life. Maybe they will kill themselves, maybe they will lash out at people, maybe they will stop going to church, maybe they will hurt other people.
Satan might restrict temptation of Giver so that it is easier for Giver not to committ things which Giver things are sins.
I know Giver is a sinner, because he doesa not love like he should.
GIVER- A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.
The tactic or method is as follows.
Convince christians that they must be sinless to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Deceive Giver into thinking he is sinless.
Christians will work hard to be sinless and will fail and they will fell bad all their life. Maybe they will kill themselves, maybe they will lash out at people, maybe they will stop going to church, maybe they will hurt other people.
Satan might restrict temptation of Giver so that it is easier for Giver not to committ things which Giver things are sins.
I know Giver is a sinner, because he doesa not love like he should.
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER- A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.
The tactic or method is as follows.
Convince christians that they must be sinless to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Deceive Giver into thinking he is sinless.
Christians will work hard to be sinless and will fail and they will feel bad all their life. They will be confused and chasing something that can not be obtained while on this earth. Maybe they will kill themselves, maybe they will lash out at people, maybe they will stop going to church, maybe they will hurt other people.
Satan might restrict temptation of Giver so that it is easier for Giver not to committ things which Giver things are sins.
I know Giver is a sinner, because he doesa not love like he should.
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER- A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.
So - you are operating in the charismatic gift of Discerning of Spirits?
That is the ONLY way anyone can tell if the source of something like that is demonic or organic.
: Ladonia Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 09:30:19
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 14:06:04
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:44:00
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 13:19:55
: Ladonia Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:12:46
: Giver Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 09:49:23
: MeMyself Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 08:31:38
Thankful, thanks for sharing that about resting in what Christ did, His finished work on the cross. ::smile::
A person who sins IS a Christian. A forgiven follower of Christ. What a blessing that we don't have to focus on our sin, but REJOICE in our Shepherd coming and finding us! He will never leave or forsake us, He is faithful and just to cleans us from all unrighteousness, and calls us His own! He is not grading us by our ability to be 100% perfect, but loving us because we are His sheep.
Matthew 18:12 speaks of His beautiful love for us, His never leaving us if we wander away and His dedication to the commitment to complet the good work He began in the lives of His children.
""What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?"
Thank you, Lord Jesus! ::smile::
You need not focus on sin, but you had better focus on walking as Jesus walked. If you don't you will not enter the kingdom of God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 14:59:22Yes baby Christians will be forgiven if they ask, but a Christian will not need to be forgiven.
This is the 3rd time I have asked you this...and you fail to answer each time, why?
Do you Giver trust in the death of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of your sins...and eternal life?
or,
Do you trust yourself not sinning for the atonement of your sins...and eternal life?
Please answer so we will know if you are from God or from satan......and please do not throw out random Bible verses; just answer the question...please...
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
: JohnDB Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
A spiritual Christian will not sin. A baby Christian/a Christian who is not yet spiritual will sin.
Let me share part of my life with you. I was a Christian from birth. I went to Christian schools, and I truly believed in Jesus. Jesus even answered a prayer of healing for me before I was a teen. From the age of twenty-five to forty I went to church everyday. I always tried to live without sinning. I even would pray to die before ever sinning again. I would cry after committing a sin. No matter how hard I tried; sin would happen.
After accepting Jesus' call to his ministry, and giving him my life, and Jesus giving me his Holy Spirit, and Jesus personally teaching me for about a year, he had me go to confession. After I did that he told me I was clean and he could now use me. That was over thirty years ago, and I have remained sinless ever sense.
There is so much scripture that tells us we are free from sin if we become possessed by God's spirit. Why is it people can't see?
There was a time where I felt anger with the church, because it did not teach me what I just shared with you. Then I realized that there were no longer people in the church who knew. Then one sees that those who do know have to let others know. Now I only saw that because Jesus pointed it out to me.
: Giver Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 20:19:15From the age of twenty-five to forty I went to church everyday.
Please...give me a break; a lie...which by the way is sin!
: DaveW Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 12:05:28
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER- A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.
So - you are operating in the charismatic gift of Discerning of Spirits?
That is the ONLY way anyone can tell if the source of something like that is demonic or organic.
You are right it is either his flesh, the world or satan/demon/s.
It way it is UNGODLY. Not of God.
It is discerned by what he has written, just like if you have read through the Quran. It is UNGODLY.
: Giver Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 20:19:15
: JohnDB Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
A spiritual Christian will not sin. A baby Christian/a Christian who is not yet spiritual will sin.
Let me share part of my life with you. I was a Christian from birth. I went to Christian schools, and I truly believed in Jesus. Jesus even answered a prayer of healing for me before I was a teen. From the age of twenty-five to forty I went to church everyday. I always tried to live without sinning. I even would pray to die before ever sinning again. I would cry after committing a sin. No matter how hard I tried; sin would happen.
After accepting Jesus' call to his ministry, and giving him my life, and Jesus giving me his Holy Spirit, and Jesus personally teaching me for about a year, he had me go to confession. After I did that he told me I was clean and he could now use me. That was over thirty years ago, and I have remained sinless ever sense.
There is so much scripture that tells us we are free from sin if we become possessed by God's spirit. Why is it people can't see?
There was a time where I felt anger with the church, because it did not teach me what I just shared with you. Then I realized that there were no longer people in the church who knew. Then one sees that those who do know have to let others know. Now I only saw that because Jesus pointed it out to me.
Giver are you catholic?
: DaveW Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 12:05:28
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:40:52
GIVER- A demon has been whispering in your ear lying to you.
So - you are operating in the charismatic gift of Discerning of Spirits?
That is the ONLY way anyone can tell if the source of something like that is demonic or organic.
Thank you for pointing this out. Maybe I was presumptious or being dramatic to drive home a point.
I do know this that God's people hear his voice.
In my own life I can't always discern if it is satan,my felsh or the world, but I can discern if it is of God or not of God.
Giver- I do believe you are right about something. Christians have not been taught nearly enough about walking in the spirit.
There are churches that meet, every day. And we have, "exhort one another daily," in Hebrews 3:13. But it says to do this, "lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." And we also have Galatians 6:1 > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." So, even "you who are spiritual" are warned to watch yourself, "lest you also be tempted." If we were "sinless" like Jesus, we would not be able to be tempted, I consider.
And John says he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (in Revelation 1:10), and he was receiving the vision message of Revelation when he fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. I would say he knew better than to worship an angel, but he did. That was a sin.
Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).
: comfy Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 13:21:45
There are churches that meet, every day. And we have, "exhort one another daily," in Hebrews 3:13. But it says to do this, "lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." And we also have Galatians 6:1 > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." So, even "you who are spiritual" are warned to watch yourself, "lest you also be tempted." If we were "sinless" like Jesus, we would not be able to be tempted, I consider.
And John says he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (in Revelation 1:10), and he was receiving the vision message of Revelation when he fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. I would say he knew better than to worship an angel, but he did. That was a sin.
Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).
(1 Corinthians 10:13) "You can trust God not to let you be tried beyond your strength, and with any trial he will give you a way out of it and the strength to bear it.
Giver- Are you Catholic?
: comfy Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 13:21:45
There are churches that meet, every day. And we have, "exhort one another daily," in Hebrews 3:13. But it says to do this, "lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." And we also have Galatians 6:1 > "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." So, even "you who are spiritual" are warned to watch yourself, "lest you also be tempted." If we were "sinless" like Jesus, we would not be able to be tempted, I consider.
And John says he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (in Revelation 1:10), and he was receiving the vision message of Revelation when he fell down to worship an angel > Revelation 19:9-10. I would say he knew better than to worship an angel, but he did. That was a sin.
Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16).
"Not sinning includes "without complaining and arguing" (Philippians 2:14-16). Your quote reminded me of an incident during the first year of my ministry. I was losing everything I owned, as was told to me by the Holy Spirit, but having to lose my car was just too hard for me, so I thought. I was complaining to Jesus about the need for me to do with out my car, when he said to me: "Bob! They hung me. You can understand that I stopped complaining from that day on.
: JohnDB Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
Amen and also arrogance and pride. God hates pride as well.
: JohnDB Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
By the way it takes something more then someone accusing one of sin to make him or her a sinner.
If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him.
: Giver Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 14:54:06
: JohnDB Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
By the way it takes something more then someone accusing one of sin to make him or her a sinner.
If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him.
The Greek word for that is bologna (baloney).... it is written (Paul wrote this):
1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
: Giver Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 14:54:06
: JohnDB Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:46
I believe that a person whose life is characterized by sin isn't "saved". IE philanderer, pornographer or homosexual. A person engaged in one of those lifestyles has to leave that lifestyle if they truly want what God offers.
But that doesn't mean that good intentioned people wanting to serve God to their best ability aren't going to err. Peter had issues with the inclusion of Gentile believers. So to claim sinless perfection once a person becomes saved is hypocrisy.
By the way it takes something more then someone accusing one of sin to make him or her a sinner.
If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him.
This is not bibilical. The bible speaks of rebuking other Christians who are wrong.
Giver I am assuming you are Catholic, by you mentioning Mary visting your wife.
By being Catholic you are being sinful, because the very fact you are Catholic you are committing sins. You communicate with Saints who have died from their mortal body. You pray the rosary, etc.. all the sinful Catholic practices.
baloney . . . just as long as they aren't eating a donkey! ::smile::
Giver, you said, "If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him."
But Peter withdrew himself from Gentile-background believer, and God was working in Paul "toward the Gentiles", we have in Galatians 2:8. So, Paul would be appropriate for the Holy Spirit to use to deal with Peter.
And when Peter withdrew himself from the Gentile background Christians, Paul called that "hypocrisy" (Galatians 2:11-13). Isn't hypocrisy one of the sins that Jesus hated the most? along with unforgiveness and lording oneself over others.
And Peter was the one who had first ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius. This is in Acts chapter ten. So, Peter knew they had the Holy Spirit. By withdrawing himself from Holy Spirit people (Galatians 2:11-13), he was not only sinning in "hypocrisy" as Paul says, but he was perverting the other leaders with his bad example (as it says in Galatians 2:13), and betraying the Holy Spirit who had trusted him with Spirit-filled Gentile believers. And to withdraw himself because of "fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:12) was sin against God's love, because "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment," we have in 1 John 4:18.
So, I would say this was a very serious sin.
But Paul handled it in a humble way, as he has said > "if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness," he gives us in Galatians 6:1. So, he did not use major measures, but "a spirit of gentleness" . . . for "any trespass", it says.
But I understand that Paul's good example fed and helped them so Peter did better. Then, I can see, he became able to write his two epistles. These letters, I can see, are the result of a man learning from his errors and becoming mature in God's love so he was able to write like this, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit combined with his own actual experience of sharing with God in His love and how God revealed to Peter things yet to come.
To say that Peter did not sin in a very serious way, by playing "the hypocrite" . . . this is interesting that ones do say this. They don't want to admit that their idol leader could have so sinned even while leading the church. And look at how ones went right along with him. But Paul criticizes this, saying, "even Barnabas" went along with it. So, Barnabas was considered to be a very real Christian, I would say; Paul admired him, but still pointed out how "even Barnabas" messed up so big-time. So, Peter's sin was very much not a small thing, if it was very bad for Barnabas to go along with it, and be so against how Paul had come to admire him.
But someone in denial can try to cover this up. Cover-ups are nothing new!!! There is a sort of being "sinless" hoax witch has someone ignoring how something is a sin, so the person can keep on with the hoax of being "sinless" > just say something isn't a sin, or was no big deal, or whatever. Betraying the trust of the Holy Spirit is a very big deal. In the Roman Catholic Church moral teaching, by the way, to lead someone else into sin, like Peter did with "even Barnabas", is one of the most serious of sins. I'm not into Roman Catholic, but I just thought I'd point this out, that I was taught while in CCD. So, the official Roman church would also agree with me, on this point, "maybe" ::smile::
But we have the Jesus who sees us the way we really are, and He keeps working with us, and providing leaders who see us honestly and help us. Jesus takes us "just as I am", but then He expects us also to take every person just as each one is . . ."in any trespass", Paul does say, and have compassion > "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)
Peter and Paul as sinners?
When people can't dispute scripture that I quote about sin, they try to make Peter, and Paul sinners.
Well Peter and Paul were sinners, until God made his home in them.
(1 Peter 4:16-19) "However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
: comfy Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 21:13:03
baloney . . . just as long as they aren't eating a donkey! ::smile::
Giver, you said, "If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him."
But Peter withdrew himself from Gentile-background believer, and God was working in Paul "toward the Gentiles", we have in Galatians 2:8. So, Paul would be appropriate for the Holy Spirit to use to deal with Peter.
And when Peter withdrew himself from the Gentile background Christians, Paul called that "hypocrisy" (Galatians 2:11-13). Isn't hypocrisy one of the sins that Jesus hated the most? along with unforgiveness and lording oneself over others.
And Peter was the one who had first ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius. This is in Acts chapter ten. So, Peter knew they had the Holy Spirit. By withdrawing himself from Holy Spirit people (Galatians 2:11-13), he was not only sinning in "hypocrisy" as Paul says, but he was perverting the other leaders with his bad example (as it says in Galatians 2:13), and betraying the Holy Spirit who had trusted him with Spirit-filled Gentile believers. And to withdraw himself because of "fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:12) was sin against God's love, because "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment," we have in 1 John 4:18.
So, I would say this was a very serious sin.
But Paul handled it in a humble way, as he has said > "if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness," he gives us in Galatians 6:1. So, he did not use major measures, but "a spirit of gentleness" . . . for "any trespass", it says.
But I understand that Paul's good example fed and helped them so Peter did better. Then, I can see, he became able to write his two epistles. These letters, I can see, are the result of a man learning from his errors and becoming mature in God's love so he was able to write like this, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit combined with his own actual experience of sharing with God in His love and how God revealed to Peter things yet to come.
To say that Peter did not sin in a very serious way, by playing "the hypocrite" . . . this is interesting that ones do say this. They don't want to admit that their idol leader could have so sinned even while leading the church. And look at how ones went right along with him. But Paul criticizes this, saying, "even Barnabas" went along with it. So, Barnabas was considered to be a very real Christian, I would say; Paul admired him, but still pointed out how "even Barnabas" messed up so big-time. So, Peter's sin was very much not a small thing, if it was very bad for Barnabas to go along with it, and be so against how Paul had come to admire him.
But someone in denial can try to cover this up. Cover-ups are nothing new!!! There is a sort of being "sinless" hoax witch has someone ignoring how something is a sin, so the person can keep on with the hoax of being "sinless" > just say something isn't a sin, or was no big deal, or whatever. Betraying the trust of the Holy Spirit is a very big deal. In the Roman Catholic Church moral teaching, by the way, to lead someone else into sin, like Peter did with "even Barnabas", is one of the most serious of sins. I'm not into Roman Catholic, but I just thought I'd point this out, that I was taught while in CCD. So, the official Roman church would also agree with me, on this point, "maybe" ::smile::
But we have the Jesus who sees us the way we really are, and He keeps working with us, and providing leaders who see us honestly and help us. Jesus takes us "just as I am", but then He expects us also to take every person just as each one is . . ."in any trespass", Paul does say, and have compassion > "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)
Boy, talk about Peter sinning. Didn't he deny Our Lord 3 times and was fully forgiven by Him?
: Ladonia Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 09:06:12
: comfy Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 21:13:03
baloney . . . just as long as they aren't eating a donkey! ::smile::
Giver, you said, "If the Holy Spirit thought what Peter was doing was serious, he would have used a different method of communicating it to Peter then having Paul tell him."
But Peter withdrew himself from Gentile-background believer, and God was working in Paul "toward the Gentiles", we have in Galatians 2:8. So, Paul would be appropriate for the Holy Spirit to use to deal with Peter.
And when Peter withdrew himself from the Gentile background Christians, Paul called that "hypocrisy" (Galatians 2:11-13). Isn't hypocrisy one of the sins that Jesus hated the most? along with unforgiveness and lording oneself over others.
And Peter was the one who had first ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles . . . at the house of Cornelius. This is in Acts chapter ten. So, Peter knew they had the Holy Spirit. By withdrawing himself from Holy Spirit people (Galatians 2:11-13), he was not only sinning in "hypocrisy" as Paul says, but he was perverting the other leaders with his bad example (as it says in Galatians 2:13), and betraying the Holy Spirit who had trusted him with Spirit-filled Gentile believers. And to withdraw himself because of "fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:12) was sin against God's love, because "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment," we have in 1 John 4:18.
So, I would say this was a very serious sin.
But Paul handled it in a humble way, as he has said > "if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness," he gives us in Galatians 6:1. So, he did not use major measures, but "a spirit of gentleness" . . . for "any trespass", it says.
But I understand that Paul's good example fed and helped them so Peter did better. Then, I can see, he became able to write his two epistles. These letters, I can see, are the result of a man learning from his errors and becoming mature in God's love so he was able to write like this, from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit combined with his own actual experience of sharing with God in His love and how God revealed to Peter things yet to come.
To say that Peter did not sin in a very serious way, by playing "the hypocrite" . . . this is interesting that ones do say this. They don't want to admit that their idol leader could have so sinned even while leading the church. And look at how ones went right along with him. But Paul criticizes this, saying, "even Barnabas" went along with it. So, Barnabas was considered to be a very real Christian, I would say; Paul admired him, but still pointed out how "even Barnabas" messed up so big-time. So, Peter's sin was very much not a small thing, if it was very bad for Barnabas to go along with it, and be so against how Paul had come to admire him.
But someone in denial can try to cover this up. Cover-ups are nothing new!!! There is a sort of being "sinless" hoax witch has someone ignoring how something is a sin, so the person can keep on with the hoax of being "sinless" > just say something isn't a sin, or was no big deal, or whatever. Betraying the trust of the Holy Spirit is a very big deal. In the Roman Catholic Church moral teaching, by the way, to lead someone else into sin, like Peter did with "even Barnabas", is one of the most serious of sins. I'm not into Roman Catholic, but I just thought I'd point this out, that I was taught while in CCD. So, the official Roman church would also agree with me, on this point, "maybe" ::smile::
But we have the Jesus who sees us the way we really are, and He keeps working with us, and providing leaders who see us honestly and help us. Jesus takes us "just as I am", but then He expects us also to take every person just as each one is . . ."in any trespass", Paul does say, and have compassion > "He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)
Boy, talk about Peter sinning. Didn't he deny Our Lord 3 times and was fully forgiven by Him?
Why is it people can't or don't know that before anyone was able to walk in the Holy Spirit Jesus had to ascend into heaven. Without being possessed by the Holy Spirit no one can live without sinning.
When the Holy Spirit possesses one he or she will not sin.
Also remember we are talking about sins that lead to death. Those are wrongdoings that one knows is a wrongdoing and does the act anyway.
(1 John 5:17) "Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.
You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.
Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.
The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you. It is about yielding to God. The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,
There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit. Love, long suffering, etc.
I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.
You are not offering any advice.
: cs80918 Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.
You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.
Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.
The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you. It is about yielding to God. The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,
There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit. Love, long suffering, etc.
I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.
You are not offering any advice.
You know, I like what you just said here about the Holy Sprit being in Christians. Twice I have been asked to give eulogies at funerals and both times I at first had no idea of what to say. In each instance after a period of prayer the words suddenly came into my head and I was the one to write them down on the paper. Yep, it was the Holy Spirit who gave me those words, of that I am sure.
You also say "draw nearer to God and He will draw nearer to you". Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. We are the ones who need to open ourselves to God and He will definitely walk right in. Sometimes I feel suh a peace come over me and it is truly a great feeling. I heard a sermon once on "having the peace of Christ" and I understood exactly what was being talked about. It feels that despite the troubles life brings, everything is in it's right place. ( at least as far as my life is going).
: Giver Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:30:36
Why is it people can't or don't know that before anyone was able to walk in the Holy Spirit Jesus had to ascend into heaven. Without being possessed by the Holy Spirit no one can live without sinning.
When the Holy Spirit possesses one he or she will not sin.
There is no such thing as 'Holy Spirit possession' never.
The Holy Spirit always LEADS !!!
Are you aware of the difference of 'possession and leading' ?
: cs80918 Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.
You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.
Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.
The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you. It is about yielding to God. The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,
There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit. Love, long suffering, etc.
I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.
You are not offering any advice.
You said: "You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
: Beta Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 08:49:08
: Giver Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:30:36
Why is it people can't or don't know that before anyone was able to walk in the Holy Spirit Jesus had to ascend into heaven. Without being possessed by the Holy Spirit no one can live without sinning.
When the Holy Spirit possesses one he or she will not sin.
There is no such thing as 'Holy Spirit possession' never.
The Holy Spirit always LEADS !!!
Are you aware of the difference of 'possession and leading' ?
I am too tired this morning to look up all the places in the written Word of God where it tells us God possesses one who is of God. Also when people who attempt to tell others things that they themselves obviously have no understanding of, it makes me sad that they know so little.
(John 14: 23) "Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.
: Giver Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 09:30:40
: cs80918 Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.
You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.
Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.
The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you. It is about yielding to God. The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,
There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit. Love, long suffering, etc.
I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.
You are not offering any advice.
You said: "You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
: cs80918 Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 16:30:17
: Giver Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 09:30:40
: cs80918 Sat Dec 03, 2011 - 11:58:07
Giver- First of all thank you for starting this topic.
You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
Anyone who believes in Jesus as their God and savior and believes what he said and did is SEALED with the Holy Spirit.
All Christians receive the Holy Spirit when they believe in Jesus and yield to Jesus as their ruler and God.
Jesus breathed on the apostles and they received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is with all believers in Christ.
The bible says to draw near to God and he will draw near to you. It is about yielding to God. The more a person yields to God and trusts in God the more they mature in Christ,
There is evidence of having the Holy Spirit. Love, long suffering, etc.
I believe you are sincere, but you are confused.
You are not offering any advice.
You said: "You error in the fundamental understanding of what it means to be in Christ. The basic understanding of what it means to be saved.
Once AGAIN GIVER,
GIVER are you CATHOLIC?
ARE YOU CATHOLIC?
He said he went "to confession", in an earlier post, if I remember correctly. And that is not related to this thread, I "suppose". It's about what is really true or not. I admit I want to just dump what Giver says, by lazily saying oh you're just another Catholic and therefore you can't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I can be lazy.
So, it looks like when Giver says a Christian does not sin, he means one does not deliberately do what is wrong. And he means one is not so perfect that one always does things perfectly, but is able to do sins of ignorance and imperfection.
But our Apostle Peter knew he had ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles. And Paul clearly does say his sin was "hypocrisy". And this is in scripture. So, if you believe the Holy Spirit wrote Galatians through chapter two, verses 11-13, then it is the Holy Spirit Himself who is saying Peter's sin was "hypocrisy". So, if Giver feels and says that is only Paul's opinion and view, then possibly, Giver, you do not consider the scriptures of Galatians to be divinely inspired, in which case you would not be in line with official Roman Catholic belief, I would consider.
So, even though you may have gone to Catholic "confession", you may not be officially Roman Catholic, if you think what Paul says in Galatians is only Paul's own view and not what the Holy Spirit had him write.
But the Bible clearly does say, "He who has been born of God does not sin," in 1 John 3:9. Ones say this means one can not leave God, but because we are not perfect we can fail and mess up . . . like Peter did, etc., even after he had ministered the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles and was a Spirit-filled person. And our apostle John, right while he was receiving the vision of Revelation says,"I fell down to worship" an angel (Revelation 19:10) . . . not exactly what the Holy Spirit had him doing. So, he was not perfect, though blessed to receive the Book of Revelation. But because he was close to God, he was so closely and quickly given communication to correct him > Revelation 19:9-10. But then, later, he says, in another place, "I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel"! > Revelation 22:8. And the angel spoke to correct John.
So, as you get closer to God, you will be more closely corrected, even with personal communication, right away, if we are close to Him.
: comfy Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 21:14:37
He said he went "to confession", in an earlier post, if I remember correctly. And that is not related to this thread, I "suppose". It's about what is really true or not. I admit I want to just dump what Giver says, by lazily saying oh you're just another Catholic and therefore you can't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I can be lazy.
So, it looks like when Giver says a Christian does not sin, he means one does not deliberately do what is wrong. And he means one is not so perfect that one always does things perfectly, but is able to do sins of ignorance and imperfection.
But our Apostle Peter knew he had ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles. And Paul clearly does say his sin was "hypocrisy". And this is in scripture. So, if you believe the Holy Spirit wrote Galatians through chapter two, verses 11-13, then it is the Holy Spirit Himself who is saying Peter's sin was "hypocrisy". So, if Giver feels and says that is only Paul's opinion and view, then possibly, Giver, you do not consider the scriptures of Galatians to be divinely inspired, in which case you would not be in line with official Roman Catholic belief, I would consider.
So, even though you may have gone to Catholic "confession", you may not be officially Roman Catholic, if you think what Paul says in Galatians is only Paul's own view and not what the Holy Spirit had him write.
But the Bible clearly does say, "He who has been born of God does not sin," in 1 John 3:9. Ones say this means one can not leave God, but because we are not perfect we can fail and mess up . . . like Peter did, etc., even after he had ministered the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles and was a Spirit-filled person. And our apostle John, right while he was receiving the vision of Revelation says,"I fell down to worship" an angel (Revelation 19:10) . . . not exactly what the Holy Spirit had him doing. So, he was not perfect, though blessed to receive the Book of Revelation. But because he was close to God, he was so closely and quickly given communication to correct him > Revelation 19:9-10. But then, later, he says, in another place, "I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel"! > Revelation 22:8. And the angel spoke to correct John.
So, as you get closer to God, you will be more closely corrected, even with personal communication, right away, if we are close to Him.
That's a very good post comfy, I agree with that.
: comfy Sun Dec 04, 2011 - 21:14:37
He said he went "to confession", in an earlier post, if I remember correctly. And that is not related to this thread, I "suppose". It's about what is really true or not. I admit I want to just dump what Giver says, by lazily saying oh you're just another Catholic and therefore you can't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I can be lazy.
So, it looks like when Giver says a Christian does not sin, he means one does not deliberately do what is wrong. And he means one is not so perfect that one always does things perfectly, but is able to do sins of ignorance and imperfection.
But our Apostle Peter knew he had ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles. And Paul clearly does say his sin was "hypocrisy". And this is in scripture. So, if you believe the Holy Spirit wrote Galatians through chapter two, verses 11-13, then it is the Holy Spirit Himself who is saying Peter's sin was "hypocrisy". So, if Giver feels and says that is only Paul's opinion and view, then possibly, Giver, you do not consider the scriptures of Galatians to be divinely inspired, in which case you would not be in line with official Roman Catholic belief, I would consider.
So, even though you may have gone to Catholic "confession", you may not be officially Roman Catholic, if you think what Paul says in Galatians is only Paul's own view and not what the Holy Spirit had him write.
But the Bible clearly does say, "He who has been born of God does not sin," in 1 John 3:9. Ones say this means one can not leave God, but because we are not perfect we can fail and mess up . . . like Peter did, etc., even after he had ministered the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles and was a Spirit-filled person. And our apostle John, right while he was receiving the vision of Revelation says,"I fell down to worship" an angel (Revelation 19:10) . . . not exactly what the Holy Spirit had him doing. So, he was not perfect, though blessed to receive the Book of Revelation. But because he was close to God, he was so closely and quickly given communication to correct him > Revelation 19:9-10. But then, later, he says, in another place, "I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel"! > Revelation 22:8. And the angel spoke to correct John.
So, as you get closer to God, you will be more closely corrected, even with personal communication, right away, if we are close to Him.
If Giver admits he is Catholic than he will find it hard to continue this argument.