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Christian Interests => Theology Forum => Non-Traditional Theology => : Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02

: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02
Jesus was required to offer "something
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:04:07
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:15:22
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:04:07
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

Explain then.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:22:10
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:15:22
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:04:07
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

Explain then.

Ok.

Where better to start than the begining of the NT.

Matt 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Why does the Gospel begin revealing Jesus as the son of two sinners?

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:27:37
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:04:07
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

I understand what Jesus did, but I am not God.  I don't know why he required God the son to come in the flesh and then die on a cross, rise again and then ascend to the right hand of God in the throne in heaven.

I just don't get why he just didn't say okay all you people are forgiven.  I understand the old testament and the new, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

However; I believe in God and I trust in his will and in God even if it doesn't make sense.

Are you telling me that you understand every verse in the bible?  Are you telling me that you understand the complete will of God?

It is not about UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING it is about yielding and bowing down and SEEKING God and not yielding to our own understanding.

Yes I know the biblically principles of sacrifice and atonement and salvation etc, but it just doesn't make sense.  However; if you have ears to hear listen to what I am saying.

Jesus is my God and savior and I seek him and serve him and love him and believe him, and believe what he did and has done.  

If you know God's will perfectly and can calculate his every move good for you.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:34:25
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:27:37
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:04:07
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

I understand what Jesus did, but I am not God.  I don't know why he required God the son to come in the flesh and then die on a cross, rise again and then ascend to the right hand of God in the throne in heaven.

I just don't get why he just didn't say okay all you people are forgiven.  I understand the old testament and the new, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

However; I believe in God and I trust in his will and in God even if it doesn't make sense.

Are you telling me that you understand every verse in the bible?  Are you telling me that you understand the complete will of God?

It is not about UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING it is about yielding and bowing down and SEEKING God and not yielding to our own understanding.

Yes I know the biblically principles of sacrifice and atonement and salvation etc, but it just doesn't make sense.  However; if you have ears to hear listen to what I am saying.

Jesus is my God and savior and I seek him and serve him and love him and believe him, and believe what he did and has done.  

If you know God's will perfectly and can calculate his every move good for you.

Though I did not make the claims of knowing God's Will I sense you feel threatened by my questions.

What if you discovered after living you whole life this God is not the One True God?

What if what you say here is error?


Jesus is my God and savior and I seek him and serve him and love him and believe him, and believe what he did and has done.  

I won't push - I sense resistance already.

BTW, if you don't know the answer to a question there is no harm in learning.  I do it every day.

God Bless

Insight




: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:47:07
OP- please explain, who then is the one true God?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:56:10
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:47:07
OP- please explain, who then is the one true God?

I was trying to show you.

Matt 1:1 This is the genealogy  of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Why does the Gospel begin by revealing Jesus as the son of two sinners?

Also see Rom 1:3 and Gal 4:4

I dont know about you but the God i know is not the Son of a sinner?

Maybe in your studies you "may" not have asked the right questions of the Word?

I am giving you that opportunity.

Insight

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:17:24
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh Rom 1:3

It's one thing to say his was of the genealogy of David, but to make specific reference to David's flesh?

Why so?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:19:37
For verily Jesus took NOT on him the nature of angels; but Jesus took on him the nature of Abraham. Heb 2:16

Maybe you should yourself "what was Abraham & David's nature?

And why?

Is Mat 1:1 any clearer?

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:22:32
And just to prove I am not being bias - if you like I am more than happy to provide a Trinitarian answer.

You only need ask!
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:34:05
Are there 18 people reading this thread who cannot answer Matt 1:1 the very first verse of the New Testament.

I would be staggered if this was the case.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:38:43
For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus). 2 Cor 5:21

But let's translate this passage through a Trinitarian filter.

For God hath made God to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in God. 2 Cor 5:21

Is this right?  ::doh::

Is this what you all believe?  ::shrug::

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 23:25:15
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh  with the affections and lusts.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 03:14:43
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 06:56:17
cs

He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

This is not quite the Truth, By Christ death, He did reconcile to God those He died for ! Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:53:06
: beloved57  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 06:56:17
cs

He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

This is not quite the Truth, By Christ death, He did reconcile to God those He died for ! Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



Could you clarify what you are trying to say?  There are a few different train of thoughts that could be conceived by the above information you gave.

Also, I think your efforts would be better spent debating with the OP, it seems like he does not believe Jesus is God the son. 
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 03:14:43
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

If you read Eph 1 you will know there is NO longer a mystery concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus, ALL has been fully revealed.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:9

You just confessed you do not know the Gospel.

Maybe you should read the rest of the Epistle to the Ephesian to find all the places where Paul explains there is NO mystery.

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:16:40
Then why are you even questioning if you know all the mysteries?

Wouldn't that put you at Hebrews 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

You are exempt from teaching us anything.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:33:54
: Bitter Sweet  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:16:40
Then why are you even questioning if you know all the mysteries?

Wouldn't that put you at Hebrews 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

You are exempt from teaching us anything.

Then you have ceased from learning?

BTW maybe you have misplaced this verse also. The audience here is in regards to those who still hold onto the old covenant. Maybe you omitted to highlight the context of Heb 8 (a better covenant). 

Paul is acknowledging the earth will not always be in ignorance of the true New Covenant.   Actually this is a direct reference to a time when God will give Israel special "teachers" See Jer 3:15; 23:3,4; Isa 30:14-21; 54:13

Hence those who understand the Mystery of the New Covenant now will led these people into the "new covenant".

Along with the Gentile believers.

Its best to always check the context of a passage before using it to support an unscriptural idea.

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote before in few words, Eph 3:3

I am able to keep posting these truth's until you repent of the unknown mystery which you think you know.

If that is at all possible.

Insight



   


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:00:40
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 03:14:43
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

If you read Eph 1 you will know there is NO longer a mystery concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus, ALL has been fully revealed.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:9

You just confessed you do not know the Gospel.

Maybe you should read the rest of the Epistle to the Ephesian to find all the places where Paul explains there is NO mystery.

Insight


What do you think Eph 1:9 is saying?  Do you think it is saying that we know God's will in detail?  That we can predict with certainty God's will in all things?

What exactly do YOU think it means?

Also, if Jesus was not God the son in the flesh who do YOU believe Jesus was and is?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:01:11
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:33:54
Then you have ceased from learning?

Well, I don't mention God in my house anymore but I've learned most about God through my Atheist husband if that tells you anything about where I am on the learning curve.


I am able to keep posting these truth's until you repent of the unknown mystery which you think you know.

If that is at all possible.

Insight

I'd much rather learn from my husband, he seems to be ahead of his time.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:05:40
: Bitter Sweet  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:01:11
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:33:54
Then you have ceased from learning?

Well, I don't mention God in my house anymore but I've learned most about God through my Atheist husband if that tells you anything about where I am on the learning curve.


I am able to keep posting these truth's until you repent of the unknown mystery which you think you know.

If that is at all possible.

Insight

I'd much rather learn from my husband, he seems to be ahead of his time.

As you wish (John 13:30)
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:19:08

What did Jesus offer?

Answer: Himself

Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me: Hebrews 10:5


Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you desired not, neither had pleasure in them; which are offered by the law;And afterward he said, "Behold, I have come to do your will, oh God.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:21:42
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:00:40
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 03:14:43
: cs80918  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

If you read Eph 1 you will know there is NO longer a mystery concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus, ALL has been fully revealed.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:9

You just confessed you do not know the Gospel.

Maybe you should read the rest of the Epistle to the Ephesian to find all the places where Paul explains there is NO mystery.

Insight


What do you think Eph 1:9 is saying?  Do you think it is saying that we know God's will in detail?  That we can predict with certainty God's will in all things?

What exactly do YOU think it means?

Also, if Jesus was not God the son in the flesh who do YOU believe Jesus was and is?

It is saying the "unknown" mystery of how God would actually reconcile man back to Himslef was hid down through the ages, but through the Keys of the Kingdom whcih were passed from Christ to Peter we now understand how entering the Kingdom age is made possible.

So subjects like the Atonement are lost to Trinitarian believers as we are seeing becuase they do not understand the how and why Jesus was born of a sinner and came in the line of sinners.

These matters are swept away as mysterious because their preconceived doctrine cannot fit within the inspired framework...when this happens you will see denial.

Only those who are willing to set to one side, what they think they know, for the hope of knowing the what they deem as a mystery or the "unknown"

Look at Bitter Sweat's response and tell this is not so.

Insight


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:25:36
: gospel  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:19:08

What did Jesus offer?

Answer: Himself

Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me: Hebrews 10:5



Thank you Gospel for providing a simplest of answers.

Why a "body" prepared for me?





: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:46
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:25:36
: gospel  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:19:08

What did Jesus offer?

Answer: Himself

Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me: Hebrews 10:5



Thank you Gospel for providing a simplest of answers.

Why a "body" prepared for me?

As a onetime, once and for all offering for Sin

The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:14

God promised this prophetically through Abraham

Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together.
Genesis 22:8

Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son. Genesis 22:13

So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
Genesis 22:14
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:55:33
: gospel link=topic=59588.msg1054639440#msg1054639440

As a onetime, once and for all offering for Sin


Thanks again Gospel!

Another simple answer.

But what did he do once?

Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this Jesus did once, when he offered up himself. Heb 7:27

How so for himself if he was sinless?

Don't be quick to answer! And whatever you do Gospel do not reply with Trinitarian teaching...it won't fit!




: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:37:53
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:52:58
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:37:53
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Yes lets.

Show me a Scripture that states "God the Son". 
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 07:15:40
He offered God as a sacrifice. So that God will no longer be outside in the world but in each of us, not separating us from God through other people or church or prayer. We are taken out of the world. We don't even have to mention the word God to know God. I may just start calling myself an Atheist again, just so I can live in the fullness of him. But Christians will no longer be a part of the world because there is no god out there, only in us.

Jesus told us to be ready, be ready for what? To change in a blink of an eye.

I don't know if you all are ready, are you? It's going to get really ugly out there in a minute and there isn't anything out there that will help you. But you won't need help anyway when God is already in you.

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:34:08
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:52:58
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:37:53
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Yes lets.

Show me a Scripture that states "God the Son". 


Show me a scripture that states "Jesus is not God the son".

Instead of playing these games lets just get to the core of this issue.

The bible clearly says that Jesus is God, the son of God, the son of Man, the messiah, the anointed one, the Holy one, the lamb of God (THE ENTIRE LIST IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THIS)

There are many names and titles for Jesus.  He is ALL OF THEM.

Jesus is not just the son of man or the son of God, he is both of them and God and the messiah and he also has many more names.





: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:43:48
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:34:08
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:52:58
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:37:53
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Yes lets.

Show me a Scripture that states "God the Son". 


Show me a scripture that states "Jesus is not God the son".

Instead of playing these games lets just get to the core of this issue.

The bible clearly says that Jesus is God, the son of God, the son of Man, the messiah, the anointed one, the Holy one, the lamb of God (THE ENTIRE LIST IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THIS)

There are many names and titles for Jesus.  He is ALL OF THEM.

Jesus is not just the son of man or the son of God, he is both of them and God and the messiah and he also has many more names.







I know you said Jesus is either.

1. son of God
2. son of man

Who or what do you think was the son of God? (God the son, a person, a little god, an angel, a non-god heavenly being?)

Who or what do you think was the son of man? (God the son, a person, a little god, an angel, a non-god heavenly being?)
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:22:56
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:55:33
: gospel link=topic=59588.msg1054639440#msg1054639440

As a onetime, once and for all offering for Sin


Thanks again Gospel!

Another simple answer.

But what did he do once?

Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this Jesus did once, when he offered up himself. Heb 7:27

How so for himself if he was sinless?

Don't be quick to answer! And whatever you do Gospel do not reply with Trinitarian teaching...it won't fit!

Methinks that through over reading and not quite understanding what you are reading you are somewhat confused

Foundational truths that help clarify your dilemma are as follows;

1. No man is perfect...none!

2. No man is righteous....none!

3. No man could fulfill the Law...none!

4. No man could provide Salvation to all men....none!

Consequently

1. Only God is Perfect

2. Only God is Righteous

3. Only God can fulfill His Law

4. Only God can Provide Salvation


These are foundational truths, there is no wiggle room to play with these truths. If there is anything you are not sure about concerning these truths there is plenty of scripture which I have not taken the time to provide however each of these foundational truths stand Rock Solid in scripture

With that as the case enter Jesus

1. Jesus is Perfect Since no man is perfect That means Jesus is God / Jesus is The Lamb of God and the very term means He is flawless, without spot or blemish... Perfect in every way!

The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29


2.Only Jesus is Righteous Jesus is Righteous since no man is righteous that means Jesus is God- He was born righteous, in perfect fellowship and communion with the Father, completely Right Standing before God.
Only the Purity can produce purity. Impurity cannot. In this way God made us His righteousness through Christ

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
1 Corinthians 1:30

3. Jesus fulfilled the Law Perfectly
Since no man could fulfill the Law perfectly that means Jesus is God

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He took our infirmities, and bore our diseases." Matthew 8:17

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

4. Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone
Jesus provides Salvation for all and Since it is impossible for any man to provide Salvation for themselves, much less all men, it means Jesus is God

Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 13:19:28
Insight are you a mormon or a Jehovah witness or what?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:29:51
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 11:22:56
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:55:33
: gospel link=topic=59588.msg1054639440#msg1054639440

As a onetime, once and for all offering for Sin


Thanks again Gospel!

Another simple answer.

But what did he do once?

Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this Jesus did once, when he offered up himself. Heb 7:27

How so for himself if he was sinless?

Don't be quick to answer! And whatever you do Gospel do not reply with Trinitarian teaching...it won't fit!

Methinks that through over reading and not quite understanding what you are reading you are somewhat confused

Foundational truths that help clarify your dilemma are as follows;

1. No man is perfect...none!

2. No man is righteous....none!

3. No man could fulfill the Law...none!

4. No man could provide Salvation to all men....none!

Consequently

1. Only God is Perfect

2. Only God is Righteous

3. Only God can fulfill His Law

4. Only God can Provide Salvation


These are foundational truths, there is no wiggle room to play with these truths. If there is anything you are not sure about concerning these truths there is plenty of scripture which I have not taken the time to provide however each of these foundational truths stand Rock Solid in scripture

With that as the case enter Jesus

1. Jesus is Perfect Since no man is perfect That means Jesus is God / Jesus is The Lamb of God and the very term means He is flawless, without spot or blemish... Perfect in every way!

The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29


2.Only Jesus is Righteous Jesus is Righteous since no man is righteous that means Jesus is God- He was born righteous, in perfect fellowship and communion with the Father, completely Right Standing before God.
Only the Purity can produce purity. Impurity cannot. In this way God made us His righteousness through Christ

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
1 Corinthians 1:30

3. Jesus fulfilled the Law Perfectly
Since no man could fulfill the Law perfectly that means Jesus is God

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He took our infirmities, and bore our diseases." Matthew 8:17

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

4. Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone
Jesus provides Salvation for all and Since it is impossible for any man to provide Salvation for themselves, much less all men, it means Jesus is God

Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:32:23
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 07:15:40
He offered God as a sacrifice. So that God will no longer be outside in the world but in each of us, not separating us from God through other people or church or prayer. We are taken out of the world. We don't even have to mention the word God to know God. I may just start calling myself an Atheist again, just so I can live in the fullness of him. But Christians will no longer be a part of the world because there is no god out there, only in us.

Jesus told us to be ready, be ready for what? To change in a blink of an eye.

I don't know if you all are ready, are you? It's going to get really ugly out there in a minute and there isn't anything out there that will help you. But you won't need help anyway when God is already in you.



So wrong Bitter... so terribly wrong.

No Scriptures to support. 
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:35:07
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:34:08
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:52:58
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:37:53
: Insight  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21
: cs80918  Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Yes lets.

Show me a Scripture that states "God the Son". 


Show me a scripture that states "Jesus is not God the son".

Instead of playing these games lets just get to the core of this issue.

The bible clearly says that Jesus is God, the son of God, the son of Man, the messiah, the anointed one, the Holy one, the lamb of God (THE ENTIRE LIST IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THIS)

There are many names and titles for Jesus.  He is ALL OF THEM.

Jesus is not just the son of man or the son of God, he is both of them and God and the messiah and he also has many more names.


Well I search my e-Bible for God the Son and found zero hits.  However when I searched the Son of God do you know how many?

If you are comfortable in expressing Jesus with a name the Holy Spirit NEVER gave.

So be it!

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:37:20
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

What Scripture?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

::hiding::
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God. 

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:23:41
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is written in my heart, not you.

No Bitter.

You have run out of wisdom and now you resort to searching the net for little signs to make you feel better about yourself.

I hope it's working?

When you are ready to discuss things of substance I am here waiting...
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:29:32
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::

Maybe Bitter would like to show me the post where I asked her to bow down?

Could it be she is feeling threatened and out of these fleshly feelings her instinct is to attack?

When flesh turns to extremes it often follows by a fall.

This is sin.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:34:52
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:29:32
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::

Maybe Bitter would like to show me the post where I asked her to bow down?

Could it be she is feeling threatened and out of these fleshly feelings her instinct is to attack?

When flesh turns to extremes it often follows by a fall.

This is sin.


I just don't agree with your method.



: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:38:27
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:34:52
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:29:32
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::

Maybe Bitter would like to show me the post where I asked her to bow down?

Could it be she is feeling threatened and out of these fleshly feelings her instinct is to attack?

When flesh turns to extremes it often follows by a fall.

This is sin.


I just don't agree with your method.


Honesty is always good and wholesome.

My method is to teach and preach a true Christ.

Nothing more and nothing less.

If you chose not to listen that is your prerogative - it's a free will thing that we all have.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:52:02
Insight- I am not going to play a game with you where I try to find a verse in the bible that states "Jesus is God the son"  The bible clearly says that Jesus is God and Jesus is the son of God. It also decribes Jesus with many other names.  Just as it describes your father satan, devil, serpent etc.

Insight- you believe a demonic/satanic doctrine.  Satan is just like you he knows the bible well.  When satan encountered Jesus at the end of Jesus's fasting satan used the bible to speak to Jesus.  Insight I am not insulting you I am insulting your father the devil.  The devil knows that I am a child of God and he knows that you are currently going to hell if you do not admit that Jesus is God.


The fact is and is clearly supplied in the bible that Jesus is God.



The deal is Insight that in order for me to list all the verses that state Jesus is God it would take me a long time.  Which I should do and keep in a saved file on my computer to help unGodly people like you get saved.

Luke 2:11 NIV
11For to you is born this day in the town of David a Savior, Who is Christ (the Messiah) the Lord!  What does the word Lord mean in this verse?

The Lord. Κυριος, the supreme, eternal Being, the ruler of the heavens and the earth. The Septuagint generally translate יהוה Yehovah by Κυριος. This Hebrew word, from היה hayah, he was, properly points out the eternity and self-existence of the Supreme Being; and if we may rely on the authority of Hesychius, which no scholar will call in question, Κυριος is a proper translation of יהוה Yehovah, as it comes from κυρω, - τυγχανω, I am, I exist.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English Luke 2:11
"For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Thankfulldad Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:59:33
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02
What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself for the sins of the world; He knew no sin...yet for our sake become sin...and shed Himself on the cross for our sins.

The cross is where our Lord laid down His life for us; the value in the cross (where Jesus, God in human form) is impossible to express in human terms...though, it is where God's perfect plan of Salvation unfolded.  The effect of the cross is Salvation, sanctification, healing and so much more.  We are to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified; God made a way for us to have a relationship with Him through the cross of Jesus.  Everything in the Christian experience must point back to the cross (God's offering)...the cross shook the foundations of Hell and satan's battle was lost.

For us to know what Jesus offered and why:

Please take some time to understand what the cross of our Lord did for us.  It was there that God has given us eternal life...it was there that God made a way for us to have a relationship with Him...it was there that Jesus finished the work of Salvation...it was there that God now forgives us of our sins...it was there that God showed His love...by giving Himself up for us...the greatest gift of love known to man kind.

Everything points back to the cross where Jesus offered Himself on our behalf for those who have the God given faith; not because we deserved it...but because that is who God is...

For those who trust in God's perfect plan of salvation; God gives us His Spirit (another offering from God)...and He begins a marvelous work in our life; He shows us right from wrong...good from evil...those deceived and those who have it right.  All...because of the cross of Jesus...

Beware of anyone taking God's plan and making it all about them; for example...I am good, I don't sin, I trust in myself, it is all about me, and so on.  That is satan hard at work to destroy God's perfect plan (His perfect offering)...as the be-witched/cursed make it about self.  Self will always get in the way of God working in a persons life...the offering turns to self rather then Jesus...
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:00:08
I pray that God stops you INSIGHT from writting or speaking until or if you finally understand and admit that Jesus is God.  God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit.

Jesus please show Insight the truth and if Insight hardens his/her heart and will not admit that Jesus is God that his/her mouth is stopped from speaking lies and he/she can no longer type lies on the internet or anywhere else.  If in your will God you choose to do this, I pray this will be a sign for Insight to remember and upon remembering Insight will be saved.

In the name of God the son Jesus the Messiah.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:04:56
: Thankfulldad  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:59:33
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02
What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself for the sins of the world; He knew no sin...yet for our sake become sin...and shed Himself on the cross for our sins.

The cross is where our Lord laid down His life for us; the value in the cross (where Jesus, God in human form) is impossible to express in human terms...though, it is where God's perfect plan of Salvation unfolded.

Hi thankfulldad.

I got as far as the bold.

You need to define what you mean by impossible to express in human terms?

Jesus was human and you and I are human and yet you are not saying his offering is unintelligible.

If so, you do not know the true Gospel.

But maybe you could explain.

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Thankfulldad Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:16:18
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:04:56
: Thankfulldad  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:59:33
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02
What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself for the sins of the world; He knew no sin...yet for our sake become sin...and shed Himself on the cross for our sins.

The cross is where our Lord laid down His life for us; the value in the cross (where Jesus, God in human form) is impossible to express in human terms...though, it is where God's perfect plan of Salvation unfolded.

Hi thankfulldad.

I got as far as the bold.

You need to define what you mean by impossible to express in human terms?

Jesus was human and you and I are human and yet you are not saying his offering is unintelligible.

If so, you do not know the true Gospel.

But maybe you could explain.

Insight

Maybe read the rest of my post...and you will see why as a human without faith given by God; you will not comprehend
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:38:09
: Thankfulldad  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:16:18
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:04:56
: Thankfulldad  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:59:33
: Insight  Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02
What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself for the sins of the world; He knew no sin...yet for our sake become sin...and shed Himself on the cross for our sins.

The cross is where our Lord laid down His life for us; the value in the cross (where Jesus, God in human form) is impossible to express in human terms...though, it is where God's perfect plan of Salvation unfolded.

Hi thankfulldad.

I got as far as the bold.

You need to define what you mean by impossible to express in human terms?

Jesus was human and you and I are human and yet you are not saying his offering is unintelligible.

If so, you do not know the true Gospel.

But maybe you could explain.

Insight

Maybe read the rest of my post...and you will see why as a human without faith given by God; you will not comprehend

Thanks.

You qualified your comment by saying "faith by God" which implies the hope is intelligible. It read like you were saying "it's a mystery
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:42:40
Insight stick the basics, you're needlessly getting yourself all confused

Here again are the

Foundational truths that help clarify your dilemma;

1. No man is perfect...none!

2. No man is righteous....none!

3. No man could fulfill the Law...none!

4. No man could provide Salvation to all men....none!

Consequently

1. Only God is Perfect

2. Only God is Righteous

3. Only God can fulfill His Law

4. Only God can Provide Salvation

Jesus is God!
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:42:53
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:38:27
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:34:52
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:29:32
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::

Maybe Bitter would like to show me the post where I asked her to bow down?

Could it be she is feeling threatened and out of these fleshly feelings her instinct is to attack?

When flesh turns to extremes it often follows by a fall.

This is sin.


I just don't agree with your method.


Honesty is always good and wholesome.

My method is to teach and preach a true Christ.

Nothing more and nothing less.

If you chose not to listen that is your prerogative - it's a free will thing that we all have.

I agree, it is our will is free to listen or not, but not so free when we teach the scriptures.

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Thankfulldad Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:45:52
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:38:09You qualified your comment by saying "faith by God" which implies the hope is intelligible. It read like you were saying "it's a mystery
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:47:07
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:42:53
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:38:27
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:34:52
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:29:32
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::

Maybe Bitter would like to show me the post where I asked her to bow down?

Could it be she is feeling threatened and out of these fleshly feelings her instinct is to attack?

When flesh turns to extremes it often follows by a fall.

This is sin.


I just don't agree with your method.


Honesty is always good and wholesome.

My method is to teach and preach a true Christ.

Nothing more and nothing less.

If you chose not to listen that is your prerogative - it's a free will thing that we all have.

I agree, it is our free will to listen or not, but not so free when we teach the scriptures.

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

I am comfortable if you decide not to listen, but do not behave like those Pharisees who murmured against the Lord.

We know their end.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:48:57
It appears posts are coming thick and fast.

I will be patient.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:51:22
I thought the Christian interests forums were for Christians, not for the children of wrath like Insight.

Insight I have clearly show you that Jesus is God through the verse I gave.

Just like I am body, soul and spirit.  God is- God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit.

We were created in the image of God.  I am 3.  God is 3.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:54:00
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:51:22
I thought the Christian interests forums were for Christians, not for the children of wrath like Insight.

Insight I have clearly show you that Jesus is God through the verse I gave.

Just like I am body, soul and spirit.  God is- God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit.

We were created in the image of God.  I am 3.  God is 3.


You have only proven your understanding cannot be supported by Scripture and now in your fleshly sentiments endeavour to marginalise me like the Pharisees did to Christ.

They too could not reason with Christ because of their unbelief.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: gospel Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:57:54
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:47:07
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 17:42:53
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:38:27
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:34:52
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:29:32
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:24:32
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:19:16
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:17:36
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:15:31
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:11:38
: Bitter Sweet  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:09:06
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 16:03:59
: gospel  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:58:27
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 15:34:50
Insight you are either demon possessed or demon influenced.  The bible clearly tells us that anyone who denies the deity of Jesus is not of God.  

Repent.

::hiding::

Yeah, when a person is unble to argue their position they result to insults.

I have pity of those who know not the Gospel.

Insight


Don't worry, we reap what we sow.

This is true Bitter.

If you sow error you will reap destruction.

Of of the insults come anger and all manner of strife.

I will continue to teach a "true Christ".

Insight



::bowing::

Yes, but do you have ears to hear...or is you humility just a show?

::sarcasmalert:

You honestly thought I would bow down? God is the author of my heart, not you.
::peeking::

Maybe Bitter would like to show me the post where I asked her to bow down?

Could it be she is feeling threatened and out of these fleshly feelings her instinct is to attack?

When flesh turns to extremes it often follows by a fall.

This is sin.


I just don't agree with your method.


Honesty is always good and wholesome.

My method is to teach and preach a true Christ.

Nothing more and nothing less.

If you chose not to listen that is your prerogative - it's a free will thing that we all have.

I agree, it is our free will to listen or not, but not so free when we teach the scriptures.

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

James 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

I am comfortable if you decide not to listen, but do not behave like those Pharisees who murmured against the Lord.

We know their end.

Wow its amazing that you cannot even see that you're the one most similar to the Pharisees

Jesus claimed to be God, they mocked Him and said He is not

And they killed Him for saying He was

You agree with them,

They crucified Him for heresy

You're the only one here saying you agree with them ... ::reading::

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 18:00:35
Insight why don't you respond to the verses below?

Also, Insight you are nothing like Jesus and we are not the pharasees.  Your reasoning is of the devil. 

Luke 2:11 NIV
11For to you is born this day in the town of David a Savior, Who is Christ (the Messiah) the Lord!  What does the word Lord mean in this verse?

The Lord. Κυριος, the supreme, eternal Being, the ruler of the heavens and the earth. The Septuagint generally translate יהוה Yehovah by Κυριος. This Hebrew word, from היה hayah, he was, properly points out the eternity and self-existence of the Supreme Being; and if we may rely on the authority of Hesychius, which no scholar will call in question, Κυριος is a proper translation of יהוה Yehovah, as it comes from κυρω, - τυγχανω, I am, I exist.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English Luke 2:11
"For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: segell Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:13:32
I'm not thinking Insight has much insight.  He surely hasn't shared anything to this point other than declaring himself the one who knows the gospel and yet he hasn't shared anything.  Not a thing.  And he evades direct questions.  I have to wonder if he is on the up and up, frankly.  What started out as a promising question for a thread turns out to be only a comeon for his own off the mark understanding.  Oh well.....
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:18:33
: segell  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:13:32
I'm not thinking Insight has much insight.  He surely hasn't shared anything to this point other than declaring himself the one who knows the gospel and yet he hasn't shared anything.  Not a thing.  And he evades direct questions.  I have to wonder if he is on the up and up, frankly.  What started out as a promising question for a thread turns out to be only a comeon for his own off the mark understanding.  Oh well.....

Hi Segell,

Coming to the discussion late one can omit to go back and look at all the unanswered questions.

If you wish me to repost them I am more than able.

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:44:27
INSIGHT-
This is the 3rd time I have posted this and you have not responded to each and every verse.





Aramaic Bible in Plain English Luke 2:11
"For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:51:05
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:44:27
INSIGHT-
This is the 3rd time I have posted this and you have not responded to each and every verse.





Aramaic Bible in Plain English Luke 2:11
"For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: cs80918 Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:53:10
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:51:05
: cs80918  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:44:27
INSIGHT-
This is the 3rd time I have posted this and you have not responded to each and every verse.





Aramaic Bible in Plain English Luke 2:11
"For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Thankfulldad Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:12:01
: segell  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:13:32
I'm not thinking Insight has much insight.  He surely hasn't shared anything to this point other than declaring himself the one who knows the gospel and yet he hasn't shared anything.  Not a thing.  And he evades direct questions.  I have to wonder if he is on the up and up, frankly.  What started out as a promising question for a thread turns out to be only a comeon for his own off the mark understanding.  Oh well.....

Now...here is a man with insight ::smile::...God Bless brother...
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:23:32
Gospel

Thus far you are the only one to enter the Word  ::smile:: and provide an answer consistant with Scripture.

Lets see if you can continue in those Scriptures... ::shrug::

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was...

The regular high priest, having committed his own sins, would need to offer sacrifice for those sins, as well as those of others (See Heb 9:7; Lev 16:6).

It is true that Jesus was "without sin"  in the personal sense (Heb 4:15).

Yet nevertheless, he possessed a mortal, sin-prone, or sinful nature (See Heb 2:14,15) -- and the removal of this nature required his perfect and obedient life and sacrifice.

In this sense, Jesus also had his own "sin" for which to offer.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:25:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:23:32
Gospel

Thus far you are the only one to enter the Word  ::smile:: and provide an answer consistant with Scripture.

Lets see if you can continue in those Scriptures... ::shrug::

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was...

The regular high priest, having committed his own sins, would need to offer sacrifice for those sins, as well as those of others (See Heb 9:7; Lev 16:6).

It is true that Jesus was "without sin"  in the personal sense (Heb 4:15).

Yet nevertheless, he possessed a mortal, sin-prone, or sinful nature (See Heb 2:14,15) -- and the removal of this nature required his perfect and obedient life and sacrifice.

In this sense, Jesus also had his own "sin" for which to offer.

I'm confused by what you mean. You said that Jesus was without personal sin and then you said he had his own sin to offer - which is it?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:29:17
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:25:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:23:32
Gospel

Thus far you are the only one to enter the Word  ::smile:: and provide an answer consistant with Scripture.

Lets see if you can continue in those Scriptures... ::shrug::

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was...

The regular high priest, having committed his own sins, would need to offer sacrifice for those sins, as well as those of others (See Heb 9:7; Lev 16:6).

It is true that Jesus was "without sin"  in the personal sense (Heb 4:15).

Yet nevertheless, he possessed a mortal, sin-prone, or sinful nature (See Heb 2:14,15) -- and the removal of this nature required his perfect and obedient life and sacrifice.

In this sense, Jesus also had his own "sin" for which to offer.

I'm confused by what you mean. You said that Jesus was without personal sin and then you said he had his own sin to offer - which is it?

For though Jesus was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you 2 Cor 13:4

What weakness do you and Jesus share?

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:36:12
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:29:17
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:25:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:23:32
Gospel

Thus far you are the only one to enter the Word  ::smile:: and provide an answer consistant with Scripture.

Lets see if you can continue in those Scriptures... ::shrug::

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was...

The regular high priest, having committed his own sins, would need to offer sacrifice for those sins, as well as those of others (See Heb 9:7; Lev 16:6).

It is true that Jesus was "without sin"  in the personal sense (Heb 4:15).

Yet nevertheless, he possessed a mortal, sin-prone, or sinful nature (See Heb 2:14,15) -- and the removal of this nature required his perfect and obedient life and sacrifice.

In this sense, Jesus also had his own "sin" for which to offer.

I'm confused by what you mean. You said that Jesus was without personal sin and then you said he had his own sin to offer - which is it?

For though Jesus was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you 2 Cor 13:4

What weakness do you and Jesus share?



The weakness He felt was because He was marked more than any other man. Beaten to an absolute pulp, He was totally unrecognizable. He was so weak He couldn't carry His own cross.
The Bible says that all He had to do was call on ten thousand angels and they would have rescued Him but He chose not to for our sakes.
Not only was the toll physical but mental and emotional as well.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:37:53
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:36:12
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:29:17
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:25:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:23:32
Gospel

Thus far you are the only one to enter the Word  ::smile:: and provide an answer consistant with Scripture.

Lets see if you can continue in those Scriptures... ::shrug::

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was...

The regular high priest, having committed his own sins, would need to offer sacrifice for those sins, as well as those of others (See Heb 9:7; Lev 16:6).

It is true that Jesus was "without sin"  in the personal sense (Heb 4:15).

Yet nevertheless, he possessed a mortal, sin-prone, or sinful nature (See Heb 2:14,15) -- and the removal of this nature required his perfect and obedient life and sacrifice.

In this sense, Jesus also had his own "sin" for which to offer.

I'm confused by what you mean. You said that Jesus was without personal sin and then you said he had his own sin to offer - which is it?

For though Jesus was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you 2 Cor 13:4

What weakness do you and Jesus share?



The weakness He felt was because He was marked more than any other man. Beaten to an absolute pulp, He was totally unrecognizable. He was so weak He couldn't carry His own cross.
The Bible says that all He had to do was call on ten thousand angels and they would have rescued Him but He chose not to for our sakes.


You are moving in the right direction.

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:41:31
Cmp Jesus was crucified through weakness
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:44:07
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:41:31
Cmp Jesus was crucified through weakness

I've heard this belief before and it is New Age - did you know that?

New Agers believe that Jesus was crucified because he was weak and lacking something from the universe - or some mumbo jumbo to that effect.

It doesn't say Jesus was crucified because He sinned or had sin somehow and my answer to the question makes sense. He was physically weak, beaten before He was crucified - of course He was weak.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:46:39
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:44:07
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:41:31
Cmp Jesus was crucified through weakness

I've heard this belief before and it is New Age - did you know that?

New Agers believe that Jesus was crucified because he was weak and lacking something from the universe - or some mumbo jumbo to that effect.

It doesn't say Jesus was crucified because He sinned or had sin somehow and my answer to the question makes sense. He was physically weak, beaten before He was crucified - of course He was weak.

Not new age.

The original, as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

Jesus cannot be God, for God cannot dwell in unclean flesh, nor can God be tainted with the uncleaness of death.

Jesus is the one who died for us and has been raised from the dead for our justification (Rom 4:25). As a high priest at the right hand of God in heaven, he intercedes for us. The one who, while in the flesh, experienced every weakness and sorrow, yet without sinning (Heb 4:15,16), is able now to save "to the uttermost" those who come to God through him, since he lives always (Heb 7:25,26). All his life fitted him expressly for this task, to be merciful and sympathetic of us his brethren.

Therefore, not breaking the type of Aaron..he fufilled it in every way.

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he (Jesus) who is called by God, just as Aaron was..

Jesus shared your nature and you may not even know why?

We shall see.




: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:48:44
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:46:39
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:44:07
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:41:31
Cmp Jesus was crucified through weakness

I've heard this belief before and it is New Age - did you know that?

New Agers believe that Jesus was crucified because he was weak and lacking something from the universe - or some mumbo jumbo to that effect.

It doesn't say Jesus was crucified because He sinned or had sin somehow and my answer to the question makes sense. He was physically weak, beaten before He was crucified - of course He was weak.

Not new age.

The original, as taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

Jesus cannot be God, for God cannot dwell in unclean flesh, nor can God be tainted with the uncleaness of death.

Jesus is the one who died for us and has been raised from the dead for our justification (Rom 4:25). As a high priest at the right hand of God in heaven, he intercedes for us. The one who, while in the flesh, experienced every weakness and sorrow, yet without sinning (Heb 4:15,16), is able now to save "to the uttermost" those who come to God through him, since he lives always (Heb 7:25,26). All his life fitted him expressly for this task, to be merciful and sympathetic of us his brethren.

Therefore, not breaking the type of Aaron..he fufilled it in every way.

3 Because of this Jesus is required as for the people, so also for himself, to offer sacrifices for sins. 4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was..

Jesus shared your nature and you may not even know why?

We shall see.






:::Newsflash::: Christ never at any time had a sin nature. He was immaculately concieved.

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:51:08
And that is why you do not know Jesus Christ...you are not alone.

Paul knew:

17Therefore Jesus had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Would you like to qualify the blue text?

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:54:34
Since Sinead has flesh and blood, Jesus too shared in their humanity  so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.  Heb 2:14,15

Would you like to qualify the blue text once more?



: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:56:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:51:08
And that is why you do not know Jesus Christ...you are not alone.

Paul knew:

17Therefore Jesus had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Would you like to qualify the blue text?



First of all I know Jesus. I talk with Him every day and hear Him talk to me.

If Jesus was like us in every respect He would be a sinner like us. He would not have qualified to die for us if He had sinned Himself. The sacrifice had to be spotless. He was the spotless lamb

He was in human form - He suffered temptation - just as we and His brothers did.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Hebrews 4:1
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:59:24
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:56:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:51:08
And that is why you do not know Jesus Christ...you are not alone.

Paul knew:

17Therefore Jesus had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Would you like to qualify the blue text?



First of all I know Jesus. I talk with Him every day and hear Him talk to me.

If Jesus was like us in every respect He would be a sinner like us. He would not have qualified to die for us if He had sinned Himself. The sacrifice had to be spotless. He was the spotless lamb

He was in human form - He suffered temptation - just as we and His brothers did.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Hebrews 4:1

You are close to understanding your Lord.

(Jesus) who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this Jesus did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 7:27

What did Jesus offer for himself?


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 23:05:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:59:24
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:56:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:51:08
And that is why you do not know Jesus Christ...you are not alone.

Paul knew:

17Therefore Jesus had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Would you like to qualify the blue text?



First of all I know Jesus. I talk with Him every day and hear Him talk to me.

If Jesus was like us in every respect He would be a sinner like us. He would not have qualified to die for us if He had sinned Himself. The sacrifice had to be spotless. He was the spotless lamb

He was in human form - He suffered temptation - just as we and His brothers did.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Hebrews 4:1

You are close to understanding your Lord.

(Jesus) who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this Jesus did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 7:27

What did Jesus offer for himself?




Jesus offered up Himself for the sins of the world. Not for His own.
The high priests before Him offered up sacrifice for their sins and well as the people's sins because they were human beings with a sin nature.


During the days of Jesus' life on earth, He offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverent submission. Son though He was, He learned obedience from what He suffered  and, once made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 5:1-10
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 23:10:01
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 23:05:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:59:24
: Sinead  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:56:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 22:51:08
And that is why you do not know Jesus Christ...you are not alone.

Paul knew:

17Therefore Jesus had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Would you like to qualify the blue text?



First of all I know Jesus. I talk with Him every day and hear Him talk to me.

If Jesus was like us in every respect He would be a sinner like us. He would not have qualified to die for us if He had sinned Himself. The sacrifice had to be spotless. He was the spotless lamb

He was in human form - He suffered temptation - just as we and His brothers did.

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Hebrews 4:1

You are close to understanding your Lord.

(Jesus) who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this Jesus did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 7:27

What did Jesus offer for himself?




Jesus offered up Himself for the sins of the world. Not for His own.
The high priests before Him offered up sacrifice for their sins and well as the people's sins because they were human beings with a sin nature.



Why do you think Jesus must need have that same nature?


During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered  and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 5:1-10

So you have quoted the very verse that show Jesus was held under the sentence of death.

If Jesus was under deaths power then he must have nature like yours!

You cannot get-around this truth.

Its your quote...not mine.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 23:11:19
Sinead.

I will be offline for a while.

ta

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Sinead Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 23:15:32
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 23:11:19
Sinead.

I will be offline for a while.

ta

Insight

We can pick up later :)
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 01:54:07
Jesus offered a Door (himself) into the kingdom of heaven,  where we could step though him,  and leave our life behind  to encounter his life and thus to truly live for the very first time.The life he lived with the father was now available to those who believed.Dead but alive and not alive and dead.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 02:15:05
The love of our Father.The amazing acceptance of his presence.Our amazing God who is just overwhelming.Dont you just Love Him and what Jesus Christ did for Us.LOVE YOU HOLY GHOST
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 03:53:43
A chance to be free
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:01:02
: bemark  Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 01:54:07
Jesus offered a Door (himself) into the kingdom of heaven,  where we could step though him,  and leave our life behind  to encounter his life and thus to truly live for the very first time.The life he lived with the father was now available to those who believed.Dead but alive and not alive and dead.

It's hard for some people to wrap their minds around this in the physical sense.

Freedom, sure is nice isn't it!
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:22:15
Yeah a spiritual experience to change the natural,  so one starts to live in it so it starts to change the natural.

but not being weird at the same time.........getting the wisdom and understanding of it,  so the true revelation of him,  can come to earth as it is in heaven,
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:29:16
bitter sweet it is so good to b free         what else is there   where would we go
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:32:42
: bemark  Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:29:16
bitter sweet it is so good to b free         what else is there   where would we go

Well, I suppose there's another place for people, outer darkness. Jesus is a blinding light too. I just don't understand how he can do both, but he knows their hearts and perhaps knows they won't change???

What do you think, how does he just leave them in the dust like that?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:56:05
Yeah just must make him crazy knowing just a yes can make it right......



I havent got the answers to why this and that  and why one day i was so anti and then the next day i could see.Except by the Spirit of God.... but i do know there where days that I did reject him, also so may b that he reaches out to all more often than we like to believe or receive

But he did suffer 4 all



: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 05:20:35
: bemark  Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 04:56:05
Yeah just must make him crazy knowing just a yes can make it right......

There is definitely no peace there, it's obvious. I suppose we won't ever know what's going on in their minds since we don't think the same as them.

I found it, this is how and why;

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

He gives us night vision, we can see in the dark too.   ::smile::

I havent got the answers to why this and that  and why one day i was so anti and then the next day i could see.Except by the Spirit of God.... but i do know there where days that I did reject him, also so may b that he reaches out to all more often than we like to believe or receive

But he did suffer 4 all

It's amazing how fast something can change.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 05:41:06
I do understand what it is to have a mind so calm and peaceful and that was on the day that i received Jesus Christ and felt the waves of the Holy Ghost flow down from above through my flesh as I wept  for the first time in years.Before then I thought i was alright


I understood then what peace was and I understood 4 the first time what it was like to be clean.


You know.... the more I know him.... its got nothing to do with my holiness but his love towards me ......and that is what breaks me again and again





: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Bitter Sweet Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 05:45:38
: bemark  Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 05:41:06

You know.... the more I know him.... its got nothing to do with my holiness but his love towards me ......and that is what breaks me again and again


::smile:: Because you are perfect in his love and holiness doesn't matter to us, our desires to be holy or whatever is washed from us too. Putting us all on equal playing ground.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: bemark Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 06:06:42
U know the God of our universe wants 2 know the secrets of our soul .the Hidden things we don't even want to confess ourselves


Its really crazy because he already knows it.But still we hide like Adam because it gets tougher deeper


But in the spirit u can just let him enter remove and restore what was lost over many years.

That's the laying down of your life  so you can take on his.

Pure Light moving into a Body of light , removing what is darkness so what remains may shine




: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: segell Fri Dec 02, 2011 - 09:23:45
: Insight  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:18:33
: segell  Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 21:13:32
I'm not thinking Insight has much insight.  He surely hasn't shared anything to this point other than declaring himself the one who knows the gospel and yet he hasn't shared anything.  Not a thing.  And he evades direct questions.  I have to wonder if he is on the up and up, frankly.  What started out as a promising question for a thread turns out to be only a comeon for his own off the mark understanding.  Oh well.....

Hi Segell,

Coming to the discussion late one can omit to go back and look at all the unanswered questions.

If you wish me to repost them I am more than able.

Insight


Sorry, Insight.  You just don't offer any, um, insight.  In fact, you haven't really said anything except to debunk God's Word with your unfortunate twisted understanding.  Your views are actually an affront to all who trust in the Lord Jesus as Savior, Redeemer and Creator.  You actually, perhaps without knowing, make a mockery of Christ's life, death and resurrection.

I believe you to be, in a sense, very sincere (your self elevation, however, causes me pause in trying to determine the depth of your sincerity).  But if you are using the New World Bible as your authority, then there really would be no point of the debate, would there?

I don't wish to be disrespectful, but the truth is your teachings should be ignored rather than debated.  Expecially on this sight where, by its name, we explore the grace of God though His Son and our Lord, Jesus.  Jesus is who He said He is.  In the beginning.......
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 06:38:01
insight

What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself as an sin Offering, for the sins of God's Chosen or the People to make reconciliation for the People Heb 2:16-17

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This was foretold in Isa 53:10-11

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 15:01:14
: beloved57  Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 06:38:01
insight

What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself as an sin Offering, for the sins of God's Chosen or the People to make reconciliation for the People Heb 2:16-17

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This was foretold in Isa 53:10-11

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?  YOu may like to look at Rom 1:3 and explain why the "flesh" of David?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 19:07:13
insight

Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?

Scripture says this Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The seed of Abraham is an Chosen People ! Christ came and Idenitifed with a Chosen People, a particular People, not all mankind without exception !
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 19:08:09
: beloved57  Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 19:07:13
insight

Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?

Scripture says this Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The seed of Abraham is an Chosen People ! Christ came and Idenitifed with a Chosen People, a particular People, not all mankind without exception !

Yes but was does "seed" relate too?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 20:54:35
: Insight  Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 19:08:09
: beloved57  Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 19:07:13
insight

Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?

Scripture says this Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The seed of Abraham is an Chosen People ! Christ came and Idenitifed with a Chosen People, a particular People, not all mankind without exception !

Yes but was does "seed" relate too?

Do your own reasearch !
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 21:00:35
He died for the seed of abraham

Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Talking about the Limited intent of the atonement, there is perhaps no scripture that declares it more plainly than this one..

That the GodMan Mediator came to identify with the choice people he came to die for..not all of mankind, but the seed of abraham, that is a chosen people..

Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend

remember Jesus said :

Jn 15:13

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.[chosen ones]

When paul declared in 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

our sins = The seed of abraham

Heb 2:17,16

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].

Notice, it says made like unto His brethern, which is the seed of abraham..

This is the same brethern as in Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Yes, the seed of abraham is distinguished and particular, but the scope was broad, the scope was the world, and not Just israel..

Rom 4:18

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

So, yes limited atonement is true, and must be preached truthfully or you have no gospel..

That Jesus christ came and Identifed with , the seed of abraham, and died for the seed of abraham, and rose again for the Justification of the seed of abraham...This is the Gospel of the Kingdom..

Yes, no doubt, all are sinners, but not all sinners are of the seed of abraham..
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 21:09:05
: beloved57  Tue Dec 06, 2011 - 21:00:35
He died for the seed of abraham

Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


I want you to explain and define what nature Jesus took on as per your above.  Now I could tell you but are you likely to listen?



Heb 2:17,16

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].


You are quoting very strong verses but exactly how was Jesus like his brothers?

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 06:08:51
insight

I want you to explain and define what nature Jesus took on as per your above.

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35

Now I could tell you but are you likely to listen?

Well do it and quit talking about it, but that does not mean one has to agree with it. I have given my definition for now !

You are quoting very strong verses but exactly how was Jesus like his brothers?

Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Now if you have something different for us then get to explaining and quit asking me to do your work !

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 21:35:21
Hi Beloved.

Let me say this of your posts, which I find extremely interesting.  You have quoted Scriptures that very few Christians quote.  For instance, go and look at Gospel's or others of his ilk to see if they quote these verses with any understanding at all.

They avoid them like the plague and rightly so.

"you go where few Christians dear to journey" into the very nature of Christ.

To enter his flesh one must leave the trinity at the door.

: beloved57  Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 06:08:51
insight

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35


So Jesus dwelt as Paul states in Sin's Flesh?



Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


So from this verse you believe Jesus had the exact same sin prone nature as you and I; that his flesh was held under the dominion of death until he crucified his flesh on the cross?

You also believe from this verse that the devil is not some supernatural mystical being ruling over the powers of darkness but in this verse represents sin.

For what had the power of death in Christ?

Look up Rom 6:23

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 01:23:33
: Insight  Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 21:35:21
Hi Beloved.

Let me say this of your posts, which I find extremely interesting.  You have quoted Scriptures that very few Christians quote.  For instance, go and look at Gospel's or others of his ilk to see if they quote these verses with any understanding at all.

They avoid them like the plague and rightly so.

"you go where few Christians dear to journey" into the very nature of Christ.

To enter his flesh one must leave the trinity at the door.

: beloved57  Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 06:08:51
insight

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35


So Jesus dwelt as Paul states in Sin’s Flesh?



Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


So from this verse you believe Jesus had the exact same sin prone nature as you and I; that his flesh was held under the dominion of death until he crucified his flesh on the cross?

You also believe from this verse that the devil is not some supernatural mystical being ruling over the powers of darkness but in this verse represents sin.

For what had the power of death in Christ?

Look up Rom 6:23

Insight

You are going off into a direction that I am not interest in..
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:27:38
: beloved57  Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 01:23:33
: Insight  Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 21:35:21
Hi Beloved.

Let me say this of your posts, which I find extremely interesting.  You have quoted Scriptures that very few Christians quote.  For instance, go and look at Gospel's or others of his ilk to see if they quote these verses with any understanding at all.

They avoid them like the plague and rightly so.

"you go where few Christians dear to journey" into the very nature of Christ.

To enter his flesh one must leave the trinity at the door.

: beloved57  Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 06:08:51
insight

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35


So Jesus dwelt as Paul states in Sin's Flesh?



Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


So from this verse you believe Jesus had the exact same sin prone nature as you and I; that his flesh was held under the dominion of death until he crucified his flesh on the cross?

You also believe from this verse that the devil is not some supernatural mystical being ruling over the powers of darkness but in this verse represents sin.

For what had the power of death in Christ?

Look up Rom 6:23

Insight

You are going off into a direction that I am not interest in..

Yes, its called truth.... but very few have gone there.  Many Christians today like the teachings that are palatable and easy on the senses. Sadly few understand the true nature of Jesus Christ.

The question has been put forth unanswered.

For sin to be condemned in the nature of Jesus Christ it had to be there in some form.

You should know once this is properly understood the whole Bible message is revealed.

Nice chatting.

Insight


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 03:56:45
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 16:08:50
: beloved57  Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 03:56:45
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..

By being born of a sinful woman and born into fallen stock such as Abraham, David etc

Why was this necessary?
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 23:25:49
: Insight  Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 16:08:50
: beloved57  Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 03:56:45
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..

By being born of a sinful woman and born into fallen stock such as Abraham, David etc

Why was this necessary?


It fulfilled prophesy. He was said to be the Son of Abraham and of David ! What say you ? Explain your own questions !
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 23:27:32
: beloved57  Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 23:25:49
: Insight  Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 16:08:50
: beloved57  Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 03:56:45
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..

By being born of a sinful woman and born into fallen stock such as Abraham, David etc

Why was this necessary?


It fulfilled prophesy. He was said to be the Son of Abraham and of David ! What say you ? Explain your own questions !

Why did God choose a man from a line of sinners to have his Son?

The scriptures have been presented you aonly need apply their understanding.

Why did Jesus have sin's flesh?

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Thu Dec 22, 2011 - 09:54:21
insight

Why did Jesus have sin's flesh?

I never stated that, nor have i seen that statement in scripture, so you tell us why ? You keep asking questions about things you bring into the debate that has nothing to do with what I posted. Please explain your own bringings, or are you too lazy or something ? I take time to explain what I bring into the MATTER NOW PLEASE YOU DO LIKEWISE. Now show us where the scripture states that Christ had sin's flesh and show us how it fits into what I posted, and how it contradicts it. But do your own research , or maybe you are unprepared to debate your cause..
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 05:27:18
: beloved57  Thu Dec 22, 2011 - 09:54:21
insight

Why did Jesus have sin's flesh?

I never stated that, nor have i seen that statement in scripture, so you tell us why ? You keep asking questions about things you bring into the debate that has nothing to do with what I posted. Please explain your own bringings, or are you too lazy or something ? I take time to explain what I bring into the MATTER NOW PLEASE YOU DO LIKEWISE. Now show us where the scripture states that Christ had sin's flesh and show us how it fits into what I posted, and how it contradicts it. But do your own research , or maybe you are unprepared to debate your cause..

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (Romans 8:3)

For God to condemn sin in the flesh of his son what was present in the flesh of Jesus? If indeed "he condemned sin in the flesh"

Insight

: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 05:06:52
: Insight  Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 05:27:18
: beloved57  Thu Dec 22, 2011 - 09:54:21
insight

Why did Jesus have sin's flesh?

I never stated that, nor have i seen that statement in scripture, so you tell us why ? You keep asking questions about things you bring into the debate that has nothing to do with what I posted. Please explain your own bringings, or are you too lazy or something ? I take time to explain what I bring into the MATTER NOW PLEASE YOU DO LIKEWISE. Now show us where the scripture states that Christ had sin's flesh and show us how it fits into what I posted, and how it contradicts it. But do your own research , or maybe you are unprepared to debate your cause..

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (Romans 8:3)

For God to condemn sin in the flesh of his son what was present in the flesh of Jesus? If indeed "he condemned sin in the flesh"

Insight



I wondered how long this post would sit idle without being answered.  It appears not one person in the theology section could answer and not the non-theology is silent?

What precisely did God condemn in the flesh of Jesus Christ?


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: asachild Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 07:02:06

I wondered how long this post would sit idle without being answered.  It appears not one person in the theology section could answer and not the non-theology is silent?

What precisely did God condemn in the flesh of Jesus Christ?

I don't know that it sat unanswered because no one could answer it.

I read through the whole thread since you bumped it up, and I guess it's a matter of personal taste, but I find the method of interaction off-putting.

In a topical discussion, assertions are made freely, and people can respond freely within the agreed upon topic.

When the interaction is a continuous framing of questions, then people are no longer responding freely to a specific topic.   It's a variation of that old saw "He who defines the terms, controls the debate."  In this case, he who defines the questions, controls the answers. 

I neither like the sense of an ever tightening spiral chute to the questioner's predetermined destination, nor the sense of here's a cookie come this way.

:shrug:  That's just me.

Regards,
AsAChild


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 05:38:57
: asachild  Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 07:02:06

I wondered how long this post would sit idle without being answered.  It appears not one person in the theology section could answer and not the non-theology is silent?

What precisely did God condemn in the flesh of Jesus Christ?

I don't know that it sat unanswered because no one could answer it.

I read through the whole thread since you bumped it up, and I guess it's a matter of personal taste, but I find the method of interaction off-putting.

In a topical discussion, assertions are made freely, and people can respond freely within the agreed upon topic.

When the interaction is a continuous framing of questions, then people are no longer responding freely to a specific topic.   It's a variation of that old saw "He who defines the terms, controls the debate."  In this case, he who defines the questions, controls the answers. 

I neither like the sense of an ever tightening spiral chute to the questioner's predetermined destination, nor the sense of here's a cookie come this way.

:shrug:  That's just me.

Regards,
AsAChild




Eloquently written to mean I simply cannot answer or am I willing to provide one.

So what did Jesus have need to offer?

And to Whom?


: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: beloved57 Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 08:35:38
ins

Why did Jesus have sin's flesh?

He didn't, at least not the Jesus of scripture. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, not that He came in sinful flesh. You are speaking a serious blasphemy here, you know that ?

Rom 8:3

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The word likeness here is homoiōma:


that which has been made after the likeness of something

a) a figure, image, likeness, representation

b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity


Paul says the same thing in another way Here Phil 2:7-8

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Now since you made such a serious blasphemous statement, its on you to provide the scripture of Truth that states clearly that Christ came in sinful flesh or that He had a sinful flesh.
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Mon Feb 13, 2012 - 05:05:03
: beloved57  Thu Feb 02, 2012 - 08:35:38
ins

Why did Jesus have sin's flesh?

He didn't, at least not the Jesus of scripture. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, not that He came in sinful flesh. You are speaking a serious blasphemy here, you know that ?

Rom 8:3

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The word likeness here is homoiōma:


that which has been made after the likeness of something

a) a figure, image, likeness, representation

b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity


Paul says the same thing in another way Here Phil 2:7-8

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Now since you made such a serious blasphemous statement, its on you to provide the scripture of Truth that states clearly that Christ came in sinful flesh or that He had a sinful flesh.

I would implore you to study the word likeness in its chosen context to discover likeness to actually means the same.

Therefore Jesus had to be made like his brothers in every respect   (Hebrews 2:17)

I cut the verse in the hope you will dig a little deeper and come back with an explanation why Jesus was required to possess sins flesh - born in the line of sinners. The son of Adam, Abraham and David.

Sorry this response has taken me so long.

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Mon Feb 13, 2012 - 05:17:13
When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. (Genesis 5:3)

Likeness has relation to capacity (mental and moral), whereas image relates to shape or appearence.  The original "likeness" of man to the Elohim (angels) had been marred by sin, and through sin had come physical death (Rom. 5:12).

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--(Romans 5:12)

Jesus Christ was and is the Son of Man.

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (Romans 8:3)

Insight
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: pointmade Mon Feb 13, 2012 - 06:28:59
OK Insight, what did Jesus "offer" that made made you and me righteous to a holy God?
I ask this because Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:21 that He became sin for us ( you and me )
that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

When does this "righteousness" take affect?
Do we just say a pious prayer and ask Jesus into our heart and we become righteous?
I do not "feel" righteous how about you?
Did I pray long enough? was I passed over?

Now, if you are of the Catholic faith all you need to do is confess your sins to a priest;
go to mass at lest once a year to get another shot of faith from the Eucharist when you are running low.

There are those who make an alter call and get a new transfusion when their liquid faith is running low.
How about you? ever run low on faith? ever sin again?
How can one sin again if infused with the Holy Spirit upon belief?
Wouldn't Holy Spirit baptism make one divine? if not why not?
Rather confussing, but questions that come from inquiring minds
: Re: What did Jesus offer?
: Insight Mon Feb 13, 2012 - 07:00:37
Do you understand what it was that Jesus overcame? What precisely was the agony he experienced till his baptism was accomplished ? Luke 12:50