(1 John 3:6) "Anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.
1 Jn 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
: Gomer Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:42:20
1 Jn 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!:: ::amen!::
: chosenone Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:43:36
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: Giver Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:58:30
: chosenone Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:43:36
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: Giver Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:58:30
Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
: Gomer Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 12:22:21
: Giver Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:58:30
: chosenone Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:43:36
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
(1 John 1: 8-10) If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.
If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?
1 Jn 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
Those that abideth in Him sinneth not. The verb abideth is Greek present tense showing that the abiding is ongoing, continuous, sustained, it is not a one time or occasional abiding. So those that sustain their abiding in Christ have no sins for John said "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." So those that continue to walk in the light which means they continue to abide in Christ, then Christ's blood continues to cleanse away all sin keeping the Christian "without blame" Eph 1:4, "blameless" & "without spot", 2 Pet 3:14.
When John says "whosoever sinneth" sinneth being present tense shows that they continue in sin, they live a sinful lifestyle. They never repented of their sins, did not abide in Christ but continue in sin.
So if the Christian lies yet does not continue to walk in the light, that is, does not repent, he does not continue to abide in Christ, then he does sin. But if the Christian lies yet continues to walk in the light (continues to repent of sins) then Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins keeping the Christian blameless.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
Tools to Twist Bible
I would like to share some of the tools people use to twist the written Word of God.
The tool often used is the Greek Word.
I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people that translated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek as well or better than the people who try to make people believe the English version is not accurate.
What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a language to try and convince others he or she is right because they have some special knowledge of a language.
There are any numbers of translations of the bible, and all tend to slant the Word to read such as to verify one theology or another
Hyperbole is also used a lot. Jesus did not mean that it is just an exaggeration. Then people will go on and tell one what he really meant. Tell me how does anyone know unless Jesus told him or her? If Jesus told them he will tell us also right?
Metaphorically Is used much the same way as hyperbole, and the people who use this tool are of course the experts who can tell one just what Jesus meant. Wow they must be really intelligent, like us simple people can't read, and understand.
Another tool often used is that part of the written Word is not talking to us. People don't like what a letter is saying, so then if it is not speaking to them it can be ignored. They want us to believe that the bible is like our history books.
Separating our spirit from our bodies, as if one is not part of the other. This tool is used to make our actions not accountable. Our spirit don't sin so only the body is held accountable. What is so unbelievable is many people buy into that garbage.
When certain people, one's who can't stand the truth, have no rebuttals left to block the truth, and after all the false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
::sleeping::
Holy SMOKES this reminds me of a conversation I just had with a three year old the other day.
"Blah blah and Blah blah rhyme!"
"no, they start with the same sound and end with the same sound, but they *don't* rhyme"
"Yeah, they do."
"No they don't and here is why; blah and blah rhyme, and blah and blah rhyme, but blah blah and blah blah do not."
"They.RHYME!"
"no, they don't..."
THEY!RHYME!"
At this point I realized that though the little one was given Truth, she was more interested in being right, so I said "OOOOOK!" and ended the conversation.
Thats just like what Giver is doing. He takes a very few verses and uses them trying to make them stand alone, but forsakes the rest of the messag of God's word, not fully understanding His grace and how amazing it is! Others have shown him scripture and tried to explain that JESUS is the only way to really and truly BE a Christian, but his heals are dug in that its his own righteousness that will save him. ::frown::
Our walk is a process of refining, we will sin from time to time, and God always disciplines us, forgives us and NEVER forsakes us! He began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it! (all promises FOUND in scripture, verses that CAN stand alone based on the full message and point of Salvation)
Giver can try and convince people all he wants that we aren't right with God, but he has no authority to do so...his words are empty.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you are saved. Thats what the Word says. It promises us we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and that God will never forsake us. He says nothing can pluck us from His hand.
::clappingoverhead::
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:00:19
::sleeping::
Holy SMOKES this reminds me of a conversation I just had with a three year old the other day.
"Blah blah and Blah blah rhyme!"
"no, they start with the same sound and end with the same sound, but they *don't* rhyme"
"Yeah, they do."
"No they don't and here is why; blah and blah rhyme, and blah and blah rhyme, but blah blah and blah blah do not."
"They.RHYME!"
"no, they don't..."
THEY!RHYME!"
At this point I realized that though the little one was given Truth, she was more interested in being right, so I said "OOOOOK!" and ended the conversation.
Thats just like what Giver is doing. He takes a very few verses and uses them trying to make them stand alone, but forsakes the rest of the messag of God's word, not fully understanding His grace and how amazing it is! Others have shown him scripture and tried to explain that JESUS is the only way to really and truly BE a Christian, but his heals are dug in that its his own righteousness that will save him. ::frown::
Our walk is a process of refining, we will sin from time to time, and God always disciplines us, forgives us and NEVER forsakes us! He began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it! (all promises FOUND in scripture, verses that CAN stand alone based on the full message and point of Salvation)
Giver can try and convince people all he wants that we aren't right with God, but he has no authority to do so...his words are empty.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you are saved. Thats what the Word says. It promises us we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and that God will never forsake us. He says nothing can pluck us from His hand.
::clappingoverhead::
When people can't accept the truth, and have no way to rebuke it, and after all their false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool, which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:40:45
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:00:19
::sleeping::
Holy SMOKES this reminds me of a conversation I just had with a three year old the other day.
"Blah blah and Blah blah rhyme!"
"no, they start with the same sound and end with the same sound, but they *don't* rhyme"
"Yeah, they do."
"No they don't and here is why; blah and blah rhyme, and blah and blah rhyme, but blah blah and blah blah do not."
"They.RHYME!"
"no, they don't..."
THEY!RHYME!"
At this point I realized that though the little one was given Truth, she was more interested in being right, so I said "OOOOOK!" and ended the conversation.
Thats just like what Giver is doing. He takes a very few verses and uses them trying to make them stand alone, but forsakes the rest of the messag of God's word, not fully understanding His grace and how amazing it is! Others have shown him scripture and tried to explain that JESUS is the only way to really and truly BE a Christian, but his heals are dug in that its his own righteousness that will save him. ::frown::
Our walk is a process of refining, we will sin from time to time, and God always disciplines us, forgives us and NEVER forsakes us! He began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it! (all promises FOUND in scripture, verses that CAN stand alone based on the full message and point of Salvation)
Giver can try and convince people all he wants that we aren't right with God, but he has no authority to do so...his words are empty.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you are saved. Thats what the Word says. It promises us we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and that God will never forsake us. He says nothing can pluck us from His hand.
::clappingoverhead::
When people can't accept the truth, and have no way to rebuke it, and after all their false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool, which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
None of those things have been spoken about you. You have not been denigrated, defamed, maligned, or vilified. Its truth what is said about your false mesage.
No one is saying that sin is a good fruit. Sin HURTS! It is HORRIBLE! BUT, God disciplines those He loves, cleanses us when we confess our sins, He is faithful when we are faithless. He WILL complete the good work He began when we accept that Christ is our only way to being right with Him.
That is Truth that can not be rebuked. It is not mine, but it is God's Truth! It is found in the full measure of scripture!
Your message attempts to make Him a liar. It says He is only as faithful as we are...yuck! How sad!
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:40:45
When people can't accept the truth, and have no way to rebuke it, and after all their false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool, which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
Yes sin is evil. But every one of us do it multiple times a day.
Sin is anything that misses the mark or falls short in any way of God's glory. In both testaments the primary words translated 'sin' are archery terms that mean to aim at the target and miss. (in old english 'sin' meant that also)
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:50:45
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:40:45
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:00:19
::sleeping::
Holy SMOKES this reminds me of a conversation I just had with a three year old the other day.
"Blah blah and Blah blah rhyme!"
"no, they start with the same sound and end with the same sound, but they *don't* rhyme"
"Yeah, they do."
"No they don't and here is why; blah and blah rhyme, and blah and blah rhyme, but blah blah and blah blah do not."
"They.RHYME!"
"no, they don't..."
THEY!RHYME!"
At this point I realized that though the little one was given Truth, she was more interested in being right, so I said "OOOOOK!" and ended the conversation.
Thats just like what Giver is doing. He takes a very few verses and uses them trying to make them stand alone, but forsakes the rest of the messag of God's word, not fully understanding His grace and how amazing it is! Others have shown him scripture and tried to explain that JESUS is the only way to really and truly BE a Christian, but his heals are dug in that its his own righteousness that will save him. ::frown::
Our walk is a process of refining, we will sin from time to time, and God always disciplines us, forgives us and NEVER forsakes us! He began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it! (all promises FOUND in scripture, verses that CAN stand alone based on the full message and point of Salvation)
Giver can try and convince people all he wants that we aren't right with God, but he has no authority to do so...his words are empty.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you are saved. Thats what the Word says. It promises us we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and that God will never forsake us. He says nothing can pluck us from His hand.
::clappingoverhead::
When people can't accept the truth, and have no way to rebuke it, and after all their false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool, which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
None of those things have been spoken about you. You have not been denigrated, defamed, maligned, or vilified. Its truth what is said about your false mesage.
No one is saying that sin is a good fruit. Sin HURTS! It is HORRIBLE! BUT, God disciplines those He loves, cleanses us when we confess our sins, He is faithful when we are faithless. He WILL complete the good work He began when we accept that Christ is our only way to being right with Him.
That is Truth that can not be rebuked. It is not mine, but it is God's Truth! It is found in the full measure of scripture!
Your message attempts to make Him a liar. It says He is only as faithful as we are...yuck! How sad!So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:50:45
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:40:45
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:00:19
::sleeping::
Holy SMOKES this reminds me of a conversation I just had with a three year old the other day.
"Blah blah and Blah blah rhyme!"
"no, they start with the same sound and end with the same sound, but they *don't* rhyme"
"Yeah, they do."
"No they don't and here is why; blah and blah rhyme, and blah and blah rhyme, but blah blah and blah blah do not."
"They.RHYME!"
"no, they don't..."
THEY!RHYME!"
At this point I realized that though the little one was given Truth, she was more interested in being right, so I said "OOOOOK!" and ended the conversation.
Thats just like what Giver is doing. He takes a very few verses and uses them trying to make them stand alone, but forsakes the rest of the messag of God's word, not fully understanding His grace and how amazing it is! Others have shown him scripture and tried to explain that JESUS is the only way to really and truly BE a Christian, but his heals are dug in that its his own righteousness that will save him. ::frown::
Our walk is a process of refining, we will sin from time to time, and God always disciplines us, forgives us and NEVER forsakes us! He began a good work in us and will be faithful to complete it! (all promises FOUND in scripture, verses that CAN stand alone based on the full message and point of Salvation)
Giver can try and convince people all he wants that we aren't right with God, but he has no authority to do so...his words are empty.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you are saved. Thats what the Word says. It promises us we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and that God will never forsake us. He says nothing can pluck us from His hand.
::clappingoverhead::
When people can't accept the truth, and have no way to rebuke it, and after all their false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool, which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
None of those things have been spoken about you. You have not been denigrated, defamed, maligned, or vilified. Its truth what is said about your false mesage.
No one is saying that sin is a good fruit. Sin HURTS! It is HORRIBLE! BUT, God disciplines those He loves, cleanses us when we confess our sins, He is faithful when we are faithless. He WILL complete the good work He began when we accept that Christ is our only way to being right with Him.
That is Truth that can not be rebuked. It is not mine, but it is God's Truth! It is found in the full measure of scripture!
Your message attempts to make Him a liar. It says He is only as faithful as we are...yuck! How sad!
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:02:35
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 08:40:45
When people can't accept the truth, and have no way to rebuke it, and after all their false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool, which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Jesus told us to judge a tree by its fruit. Sin is not a good fruit. Sin is evil, and anyone who tries to justify one who sins is also evil.
Yes sin is evil. But every one of us do it multiple times a day.
Sin is anything that misses the mark or falls short in any way of God's glory. In both testaments the primary words translated 'sin' are archery terms that mean to aim at the target and miss. (in old english 'sin' meant that also)
Sin is any wrongdoing, and if one sins he or she is of the devil. John said that, do you have anything other then your opinion that says John was wrong?
Did I say John was wrong?
I am only saying the definition of sin used earlier in this thread may be wrong.
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 10:32:02
Did I say John was wrong?
I am only saying the definition of sin used earlier in this thread may be wrong.
Do you really think that missing the mark is a better description of sin then any wrongdoing?
The bible gives us many example of sin, and I doubt many people are confused by what constitute a sin.
Satan my try to disguise some actions, but the Holy Spirit will make sure one does not fall into Satan's trap.
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 07:02:11
: Gomer Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 12:22:21
: Giver Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:58:30
: chosenone Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:43:36
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: Gomer Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 11:06:28
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 07:02:11
: Gomer Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 12:22:21
: Giver Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:58:30
: chosenone Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:43:36
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
The bible gives us many example of sin, and I doubt many people are confused by what constitute a sin.
Satan my try to disguise some actions, but the Holy Spirit will make sure one does not fall into Satan's trap.
So do you believe that it is impossible for any sort of deception if you are a Christian?
Do you think it is a sin to insist you are right and everyone else is wrong or misunderstands?
Or, is that a sign of deception?
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 11:23:47
: Gomer Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 11:06:28
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 07:02:11
: Gomer Thu Dec 08, 2011 - 12:22:21
: Giver Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:58:30
: chosenone Wed Dec 07, 2011 - 10:43:36
::doh::
I think you have told us this error enough times giver. Maybe you could talk about something new????
Anyway The Bible says "If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves the the truth is NOT in us". How many more times do I have to type this verse???????
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 10:48:55
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 10:32:02
Did I say John was wrong?
I am only saying the definition of sin used earlier in this thread may be wrong.
Do you really think that missing the mark is a better description of sin than any wrongdoing?
Since that is what the original langugage means - YES.
The bible gives us many example of sin, and I doubt many people are confused by what constitute a sin.
Satan my try to disguise some actions, but the Holy Spirit will make sure one does not fall into Satan's trap.
There are Sins, Transgressions and Iniquities. They each have a unique definition based on the original words.
Sins are missing the mark and are not intentional. You aim at the target and miss.
Transgressions are intentional. You don't even aim at the target. (sometimes biblically incuded in sins as BOTH end up missing the target)
Iniquities are the trans-generational effects and pre-dispositions from the sins and transgressions of our ancestors. They would include predispositions to certain sins that seem to run in families like domestic violence, anger, alcoholism, sexual perversions .... I doubt any would say that this was not sinful.
So if you are talking about JUST intentional disobedience as being sin, you leave off a LOT.
: SunSpot Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 11:32:53Do you think it is a sin to insist you are right and everyone else is wrong or misunderstands?
Or, is that a sign of deception?
It COULD be a sign of deception, or of arrogance, or of conviction of the truth.
I think all of us here would INSIST that we are right to someone who said that Jesus never existed, or was not the Son of God, or that HE was NOT born of a virgin. That would not be pride or deception. But beyond certain fundamental points of faith, it can become sinful, arrogant, deceptive, ...
: SunSpot Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 11:32:53
The bible gives us many example of sin, and I doubt many people are confused by what constitute a sin.
Satan my try to disguise some actions, but the Holy Spirit will make sure one does not fall into Satan's trap.If I am being deceived then there should be scripture that tells me that. Yet no one can explain the verses I quote in any other way then what Jesus personally taught to me, and the way I have posted them.
Also I witness that sin is no longer part of my life. We are told to judge by the fruits produced. My teaching from God has produced good fruit. Has the teachings you received about God produced such good fruit?
So do you believe that it is impossible for any sort of deception if you are a Christian?
Do you think it is a sin to insist you are right and everyone else is wrong or misunderstands?
Or, is that a sign of deception?
Gomer,Finally some one has brought up Peter sinning. Peter after receiving the Holy Spirit was accused by Paul as sinning. Every Calvinist, and believer in Martin Luther, has to believe that Paul was right and Peter was deliberately committing a sin by not eating with the gentiles. That is the only defense of their theology that they have.
I sure would hate to have to face St Peter on the last day with the excuse of why I did not accept God's gift of the power to defeat Satan/sin, because I believed Peter committed a deliberate by choosing not to eat with the gentiles.
I would think Ananias and Sapphira would be very upset if Peter got away with deliberately committing sin seeing what happened to them.
(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 12:01:16
Gomer,Finally some one has brought up Peter sinning. Peter after receiving the Holy Spirit was accused by Paul as sinning. Every Calvinist, and believer in Martin Luther, has to believe that Paul was right and Peter was deliberately committing a sin by not eating with the gentiles. That is the only defense of their theology that they have.
I sure would hate to have to face St Peter on the last day with the excuse of why I did not accept God's gift of the power to defeat Satan/sin, because I believed Peter committed a deliberate by choosing not to eat with the gentiles.
I would think Ananias and Sapphira would be very upset if Peter got away with deliberately committing sin seeing what happened to them.
(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira
I was referring to when Peter lied in saying he did not know Christ, Mt 26:70-75.
This topic is just a rehash of one from about a week or two ago. Giver posted that one too. Something about "a Christian does not sin". Whats the matter Giver, didn't have enough space to speak you piece so you have to do it again?
maybe we need to stop posting on such threads. We all know, except giver, that we ALL sin whether we like it or not, so why try to change him? If he is so full of pride that he wants to believe that he is like Jesus and has never sinned, then let him.
: chosenone Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 12:38:31
maybe we need to stop posting on such threads. We all know, except giver, that we ALL sin whether we like it or not, so why try to change him? If he is so full of pride that he wants to believe that he is like Jesus and has never sinned, then let him.
Yep these type of threads are the unauthorized message of bad news and condemnation that only serve to disturb and trouble the minds of God's people
Acts 15:24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 12:01:16Finally some one has brought up Peter sinning. Peter after receiving the Holy Spirit was accused by Paul as sinning. Every Calvinist, and believer in Martin Luther, has to believe that Paul was right and Peter was deliberately committing a sin by not eating with the gentiles.
OR - Paul totally misrepresented God in blasting Peter for what he did.
Either way - one of them was sinning.
How about when Paul and Barnabas had a falling out in Acts 15-16? Since we know God wants us to not have ill will for each other and be able to work together (which they could not do) either one or both of them were sinning.
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 12:59:16
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 12:01:16Finally some one has brought up Peter sinning. Peter after receiving the Holy Spirit was accused by Paul as sinning. Every Calvinist, and believer in Martin Luther, has to believe that Paul was right and Peter was deliberately committing a sin by not eating with the gentiles.
OR - Paul totally misrepresented God in blasting Peter for what he did.
Either way - one of them was sinning.
How about when Paul and Barnabas had a falling out in Acts 15-16? Since we know God wants us to not have ill will for each other and be able to work together (which they could not do) either one or both of them were sinning.
Being mistaken is not a deliberate sin. Yet if you want to hang you salvation on such a thin thread, you go right a head. Remember though that God gave us a way to defeat Satan/sin, so one never has to ever disobey God again.
What if I sin by lying, claiming to not know God when actually I do know God. Do I not know God then? Is it still a sin?
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 13:26:32
Being mistaken is not a deliberate sin. Yet if you want to hang you salvation on such a thin thread, you go right a head. Remember though that God gave us a way to defeat Satan/sin, so one never has to ever disobey God again.
Being mistaken is not a DELIBERATE sin (which is Transgression) but still is a sin, no matter which way you cut it.
DO NOT water down the definition of sin by making it ONLY deliberate.
Catholica - part of the confusion is over the word "know." In Jewish society it meant more than just being aware of something. It mean close intimate fellowship. That is why it was frequently used as a euphamism for married sex.
You can know God but if you lie about it the close relationship can be broken and now you no longer "know" Him in that way.
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 13:30:19
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 13:26:32
Being mistaken is not a deliberate sin. Yet if you want to hang you salvation on such a thin thread, you go right a head. Remember though that God gave us a way to defeat Satan/sin, so one never has to ever disobey God again.
Being mistaken is not a DELIBERATE sin (which is Transgression) but still is a sin, no matter which way you cut it.
DO NOT water down the definition of sin by making it ONLY deliberate.
Dave only deliberate sins led to death.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Giver - in what ever version you quote in the OP, there is no differentiation between deliberate transgression and accidental (or unknowing) sin.
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 13:45:01
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 11:34:34
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 10:48:55
: DaveW Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 10:32:02
Did I say John was wrong?
I am only saying the definition of sin used earlier in this thread may be wrong.
Do you really think that missing the mark is a better description of sin than any wrongdoing?
Since that is what the original langugage means - YES.
The bible gives us many example of sin, and I doubt many people are confused by what constitute a sin.
Satan my try to disguise some actions, but the Holy Spirit will make sure one does not fall into Satan's trap.
There are Sins, Transgressions and Iniquities. They each have a unique definition based on the original words.
Sins are missing the mark and are not intentional. You aim at the target and miss.
Transgressions are intentional. You don't even aim at the target. (sometimes biblically incuded in sins as BOTH end up missing the target)
Iniquities are the trans-generational effects and pre-dispositions from the sins and transgressions of our ancestors. They would include predispositions to certain sins that seem to run in families like domestic violence, anger, alcoholism, sexual perversions .... I doubt any would say that this was not sinful.
So if you are talking about JUST intentional disobedience as being sin, you leave off a LOT.
Excellent!
More manna
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
::headscratch:: For someone who pretends to be so perfect and without sin...you certainly are rude! Isn't being rude an ungodly act? Wouldn't an ungodly act be a wrong doing? Haven't you told us that any wrong doing is sin? Yikes... ::eek:: your "truth" isn't looking so good right about now is it? ::eek::
My answer is not a cop out, not is it garbage. Review my posts. I KNOW I have given chapter and verse to you. I know I have told you also it would benefit you to read and find out for yourself. What is a cop out is your brushing what I've said aside. What is garbage is your false message.
Its in 2nd Timothy that we learn when we are faithLESS He REMAINS faithFUL! Nope, neither a cop out nor garbage. ::clappingoverhead::
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:37:42
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
::headscratch:: For someone who pretends to be so perfect and without sin...you certainly are rude! Isn't being rude an ungodly act? Wouldn't an ungodly act be a wrong doing? Haven't you told us that any wrong doing is sin? Yikes... ::eek:: your "truth" isn't looking so good right about now is it? ::eek::
My answer is not a cop out, not is it garbage. Review my posts. I KNOW I have given chapter and verse to you. I know I have told you also it would benefit you to read and find out for yourself. What is a cop out is your brushing what I've said aside. What is garbage is your false message.
Its in 2nd Timothy that we learn when we are faithLESS He REMAINS faithFUL! Nope, neither a cop out nor garbage. ::clappingoverhead::
That is right God is faithful, and he will do as he says he will do.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I was just reading 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his,
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:57:03
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:37:42
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
::headscratch:: For someone who pretends to be so perfect and without sin...you certainly are rude! Isn't being rude an ungodly act? Wouldn't an ungodly act be a wrong doing? Haven't you told us that any wrong doing is sin? Yikes... ::eek:: your "truth" isn't looking so good right about now is it? ::eek::
My answer is not a cop out, not is it garbage. Review my posts. I KNOW I have given chapter and verse to you. I know I have told you also it would benefit you to read and find out for yourself. What is a cop out is your brushing what I've said aside. What is garbage is your false message.
Its in 2nd Timothy that we learn when we are faithLESS He REMAINS faithFUL! Nope, neither a cop out nor garbage. ::clappingoverhead::
That is right God is faithful, and he will do as he says he will do.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Also, no one is arguing against the importance of living a godly lifestyle! What IS being argued against is the thought that one is better off NOT knowing God, because He will forgive the worldly and or godless, but He will NOT forgive His own children when they stumble! Insanity!
God longs for NONE to perish so how can what Giver is saying even be close to truth? It isn't!
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
LOVE this passage from Psalms ::smile::
Psalm 103
Of David.
1 Praise the LORD, my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name.
2 Praise the LORD, my soul,
and forget not all his benefits—
3 who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases,
4 who redeems your life from the pit
and crowns you with love and compassion,
5 who satisfies your desires with good things
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.
~~~
SO good to know that the Lord forgives ALL our sinS. Not a one time thing, but on going! ::clappingoverhead::
MeMyself,A Christian is dead to sin, and does not need forgiveness of sins. Those who sin are still under the Law, and will be judged by the Law.
(Galations 5:13-26)
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:06:04
MeMyself,A Christian is dead to sin, and does not need forgiveness of sins. Those who sin are still under the Law, and will be judged by the Law.
Close, but no...not correct.
A True Christian is dead to the *wages* of sin! ::clappingoverhead:: We need to be forgiven and that is why Christ pleads for us. 1 John 2:1 My dear children,
I write this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anybody does sin,
we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
If we are dead to sin and do not need forgiveness, as you claim, WHY is Christ advocating and speaking to the Father in our defense????
Ps. A True Christian is not under the penalty of the law, because we accept the pefect Lamb of God's sacrifice for our sin. ::smile::
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:17:17
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:06:04
MeMyself,A Christian is dead to sin, and does not need forgiveness of sins. Those who sin are still under the Law, and will be judged by the Law.
Close, but no...not correct.
A True Christian is dead to the *wages* of sin! ::clappingoverhead:: We need to be forgiven and that is why Christ pleads for us. 1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
If we are dead to sin and do not need forgiveness, as you claim, WHY is Christ advocating and speaking to the Father in our defense????
Ps. It is interesting to me that you get what you do from the reading of Galations. No one is advocating for living under law...but what you are preaching seems more like law living than what I am saying. CHRIST alone is not law. Law keeping is being good enough to be accepted. No one could and so the sacrifices were offered. CHRIST alone was good enough. HE is the ONLY sinless being worthy of being the once for all sacrifice to free us from the wages of sin and the condemnation of not being able to keep the law because every human misses the mark. (Romans 3:23)
(Romans 6: 1-2) "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
(Romans 6:11) "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:24:35
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:17:17
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:06:04
MeMyself,A Christian is dead to sin, and does not need forgiveness of sins. Those who sin are still under the Law, and will be judged by the Law.
Close, but no...not correct.
A True Christian is dead to the *wages* of sin! ::clappingoverhead:: We need to be forgiven and that is why Christ pleads for us. 1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
If we are dead to sin and do not need forgiveness, as you claim, WHY is Christ advocating and speaking to the Father in our defense????
Ps. It is interesting to me that you get what you do from the reading of Galations. No one is advocating for living under law...but what you are preaching seems more like law living than what I am saying. CHRIST alone is not law. Law keeping is being good enough to be accepted. No one could and so the sacrifices were offered. CHRIST alone was good enough. HE is the ONLY sinless being worthy of being the once for all sacrifice to free us from the wages of sin and the condemnation of not being able to keep the law because every human misses the mark. (Romans 3:23)
(Romans 6: 1-2) "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
(Romans 6:11) "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:29:55
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:24:35
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:17:17
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:06:04
MeMyself,A Christian is dead to sin, and does not need forgiveness of sins. Those who sin are still under the Law, and will be judged by the Law.
Close, but no...not correct.
A True Christian is dead to the *wages* of sin! ::clappingoverhead:: We need to be forgiven and that is why Christ pleads for us. 1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
If we are dead to sin and do not need forgiveness, as you claim, WHY is Christ advocating and speaking to the Father in our defense????
Ps. It is interesting to me that you get what you do from the reading of Galations. No one is advocating for living under law...but what you are preaching seems more like law living than what I am saying. CHRIST alone is not law. Law keeping is being good enough to be accepted. No one could and so the sacrifices were offered. CHRIST alone was good enough. HE is the ONLY sinless being worthy of being the once for all sacrifice to free us from the wages of sin and the condemnation of not being able to keep the law because every human misses the mark. (Romans 3:23)
(Romans 6: 1-2) "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
(Romans 6:11) "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus
Why is it people will go to such links to avoid the truth?
What links? ::giggle::
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 19:03:28
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:29:55
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:24:35
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:17:17
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 18:06:04
MeMyself,A Christian is dead to sin, and does not need forgiveness of sins. Those who sin are still under the Law, and will be judged by the Law.
Close, but no...not correct.
A True Christian is dead to the *wages* of sin! ::clappingoverhead:: We need to be forgiven and that is why Christ pleads for us. 1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
If we are dead to sin and do not need forgiveness, as you claim, WHY is Christ advocating and speaking to the Father in our defense????
Ps. It is interesting to me that you get what you do from the reading of Galations. No one is advocating for living under law...but what you are preaching seems more like law living than what I am saying. CHRIST alone is not law. Law keeping is being good enough to be accepted. No one could and so the sacrifices were offered. CHRIST alone was good enough. HE is the ONLY sinless being worthy of being the once for all sacrifice to free us from the wages of sin and the condemnation of not being able to keep the law because every human misses the mark. (Romans 3:23)
(Romans 6: 1-2) "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
(Romans 6:11) "In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus
Giver Romans 8 does tell us how to overcome sin...THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!!!!
Romans 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
WHY is it important to be IN Christ Jesus? Because of our SINFUL nature!!!! We are free from the law of sin and death when we accept Him as the ONE way to the Father, and He will never leave or forsake us! He pleads with the Father on our behalf if.we.sin.
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 19:18:18
Giver Romans 8 does tell us how to overcome sin...THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!!!!
Romans 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
WHY is it important to be IN Christ Jesus? Because of our SINFUL nature!!!! We are free from the law of sin and death when we accept Him as the ONE way to the Father, and He will never leave or forsake us! He pleads with the Father on our behalf if.we.sin.
I am trying to burst your bubble, and your ignorance of scripture.
For one who knows God and sins there is no repentance.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) "If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
We all know, except giver, that we ALL sin whether we like it or not, so why try to change him? If he is so full of pride that he wants to believe that he is like Jesus and has never sinned, then let him.
How does that help anyone? It can be painful and difficult to give up a pivitol belief no matter how wrong you
are
Trying to get others to identify with your error through a challenge can be an indication that said belief is
so burdensome that the person would like some help sharing it
Result? Most everyone replies....that's not true!...resulting in the error being reinforced as a special
message that the person alone has received in their 'enlightenment' It's really not easy to help someone
let go of 'special' knowledge or understanding
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 19:29:02
I am trying to burst your bubble, and your ignorance of scripture.
::noworries:: Okie dokie. I quoted verses word for word. They show what I am saying IS THE Truth, while your message relies solely on cut and paste and taping verses together. You are so desperate to be right that you even hold up Romans 8 as the standard, but deny Christ is the ONLY way...which is the crux of Romans 8 BTW...and say your good standing with God will be enough.
::noworries::
::eatingpopcorn:
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 19:29:02
For one who knows God and sins there is no repentance.
Not true. There is NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN Christ Jesus! Right there from Romans 8, verse ONE! ::noworries::
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 1 John 2:1 ::noworries::
::shrug::
You LIE when you say we cannot find forgiveness in the arms of our Father! Luke 15 completely verifies this! One lost sheep, sought after and brought HOME, one lost coin, searched for and FOUND, one wayward son, WELCOMED HOME, REJOICED OVER and FORGIVEN!
::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead:: ::clappingoverhead::
Its quite frankly none of your business at what maturity level those in the body of Christ are. That is between them and God.
Oh..and I do not pretend to be some sort of scripture expert. I just know what I read and believe it to be Truth. ::smile::
Corinthians 3:1-3) "Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn't that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
Jesus was really rude to his mother too at the wedding.
I remember when my husband yelled at his mother for giving me something she had been saving for years for me at our marriage. I felt so bad for her, I yelled back at him and told him don't embarrass your mother, I like what she gave me.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:01:03
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
In your defense giver this is true..
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
But when He saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where He was baptizing, He said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:01:03
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
You've been going on and on how people who sin are not of God, they do not know God. You say you know God, yet you have sinned with your post. So, your original hypothesis is wrong. I say you are a Christian, you try to live a most holy life, yet you too can sin. That's the point. So, just admit it, God will still love you.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:01:03
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
So... ::headscratch::..all it takes now for something to be "truth" is opinion of the speaker? Interesting. I answered your smug "why don't' you use scripture instead of your opinion" with the fact that I HAD used it, but you dismissed it...quite rudely actually. (calling it garbage and a cop out) God IS love (1 John 4:8), love is NOT rude (1 Corinthians 13:5). Therefore, **IMO** rudeness is sin.
SCRIPTURE is TRUTH (which is what *I* was using, just not chapter and verse every.single.time.), not your opinion, Giver.
ALSO, you are not Jesus. He was qualified to call people on stuff harshly, He was their God and saw the intent of their hearts. (Matthew 22:18)
As for Peter and Paul. They struggled with sin like the rest of us that you attempt to condemn. Are you sure you should point to men like them for your example? ::smile::
::doh::
Cant believe this is still going on. Come on guys, we all know that we sin. Paul says so, The Bible says so. Jesus died BECAUSE we do. What more do we need to know?I cant even believe that we are even discussing such a ridiculous idea.
"If we say we are without sin we DECIEVE ourselves,and the truth is NOT IN US". Giver is deceiving himself according to the Bible(God).
: MeMyself Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:55:38
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:01:03
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
So... ::headscratch::..all it takes now for something to be "truth" is opinion of the speaker? Interesting. I answered your smug "why don't' you use scripture instead of your opinion" with the fact that I HAD used it, but you dismissed it...quite rudely actually. (calling it garbage and a cop out) God IS love (1 John 4:8), love is NOT rude (1 Corinthians 13:5). Therefore, **IMO** rudeness is sin.
SCRIPTURE is TRUTH (which is what *I* was using, just not chapter and verse every.single.time.), not your opinion, Giver.
ALSO, you are not Jesus. He was qualified to call people on stuff harshly, He was their God and saw the intent of their hearts. (Matthew 22:18)
As for Peter and Paul. They struggled with sin like the rest of us that you attempt to condemn. Are you sure you should point to men like them for your example? ::smile::
Givers ploy is all over. Humans sin and Christians are human so we can sin. What sets us apart from non-believers is the concept of redemption. God still loves and forgives us and we need to love and forgive each other. That was well said, especially your second paragraph. ::clappingoverhead::
: chosenone Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:07:57
::doh::
Cant believe this is still going on. Come on guys, we all know that we sin. Paul says so, The Bible says so. Jesus died BECAUSE we do. What more do we need to know?I cant even believe that we are even discussing such a ridiculous idea.
"If we say we are without sin we DECIEVE ourselves,and the truth is NOT IN US". Giver is deceiving himself according to the Bible(God).
You have an opinion why don't you back up that opinion with scripture?
The Bible I read tells us a Christian does not sin. What bible do you read?
(1 John 3-10) "Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:22:28
: chosenone Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:07:57
::doh::
Cant believe this is still going on. Come on guys, we all know that we sin. Paul says so, The Bible says so. Jesus died BECAUSE we do. What more do we need to know?I cant even believe that we are even discussing such a ridiculous idea.
"If we say we are without sin we DECIEVE ourselves,and the truth is NOT IN US". Giver is deceiving himself according to the Bible(God).
You have an opinion why don't you back up that opinion with scripture?
The Bible I read tells us a Christian does not sin. What bible do you read?
(1 John 3-10) "Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.
The worst sinners are those that the blood of Jesus does not clean... the Self Righteouss, the ones that claim they can see clearly ....
Jn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
... the ones that claim they are perfect now, the ones that boast about how well they keep the law, the ones that go around ministering condemnation. The accusers.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
The self righteouss are dead meat.
Luke 18:9 And he spoke this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Jesus had patience with all sinners except the self righteouss. The self righteouss call themselves "the good doers" and claim "there is no sin in them". We know who they are. They preach the gospel of self righteousness. We preach Jesus, the cross, the blood, and salvation by grace alone without the works of the law.
Example: In 1 Cor 5 we see the Cornith church instructed by Paul to shun the brother who was commiting a sin that was not even named among the gentiles. Later, in 2Cor 2 we see this same brother welcomed back into fellowship with the church after he repented.
Jam4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin
Jam4:13-16 (16) But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
1Cor6:15-20 (18)Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Jn5:16,17 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Mt12:31 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (This is the forbiden fruit in New Jerusalem and shows we choose the Lord's by our own choises)
1Cor8:4-13 (12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Tim5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Heb12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Jas5:19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Jam2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jam3:2NAS For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:22:28
: chosenone Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:07:57
::doh::
Cant believe this is still going on. Come on guys, we all know that we sin. Paul says so, The Bible says so. Jesus died BECAUSE we do. What more do we need to know?I cant even believe that we are even discussing such a ridiculous idea.
"If we say we are without sin we DECIEVE ourselves,and the truth is NOT IN US". Giver is deceiving himself according to the Bible(God).
You have an opinion why don't you back up that opinion with scripture?
The Bible I read tells us a Christian does not sin. What bible do you read?
(1 John 3-10) "Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.
Also, Giver...a friend pointed these verses out to me, maybe they can help clear some things up...
1 John 3:9
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that God's children do not make a practice of sinning, for God's Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.
...
Ladonia, Jesus will be my judge, and if I sinned he will deal with me. My sinning or not sinning does not in any way excuse anyone who sins.
Having you say I sinned, just puts me in the same boat with Peter, and Paul. People make Peter and Paul sinners to justify their sinning. You are just doing what many do when they can't find any scripture that says I am wrong.
When certain people, one's who can't stand the truth, have no rebuttals left to block the truth, and after all the false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
: glf Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 09:52:18
Example: In 1 Cor 5 we see the Cornith church instructed by Paul to shun the brother who was commiting a sin that was not even named among the gentiles. Later, in 2Cor 2 we see this same brother welcomed back into fellowship with the church after he repented.
Jam4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin
Jam4:13-16 (16) But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
1Cor6:15-20 (18)Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Jn5:16,17 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Mt12:31 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (This is the forbiden fruit in New Jerusalem and shows we choose the Lord's by our own choises)
1Cor8:4-13 (12) But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Tim5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Heb12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Jas5:19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Jam2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jam3:2NAS For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.
(1 Corinthians 5:11-13) "What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slanderer, or a drunkard or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that. It is not my business to pass judgment on those outside. Of those who are inside, you can surely be the judges. But of those who are outside, God is the judge. You must drive out this evil-doer from among you.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:42:44
You are just doing what many do when they can't find any scripture that says I am wrong.
::faint::
Giver...you have been given MULTIPLE scripture that shows you message is wrong.
Are you looking for something more pointed like "Thus saith the Lord, Giver's message be false, do not listen to him!" Because, yeah, *that* not in there, but so many others that have been shared contradict
completely,
totally, and
utterly what you are trying to preach!
::frown::
: MeMyself Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:38:07
Also, Giver...a friend pointed these verses out to me, maybe they can help clear some things up...
1 John 3:9
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that God's children do not make a practice of sinning, for God's Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.
...
I wonder if you know what God will do to those who change the written Word of God.
Do you know that a sinner will never enter into the kingdom of heaven?
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:46:48
(1 Corinthians 5:11-13) "What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slanderer, or a drunkard or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that. It is not my business to pass judgment on those outside. Of those who are inside, you can surely be the judges. But of those who are outside, God is the judge. You must drive out this evil-doer from among you.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:52:23
: MeMyself Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:38:07
Also, Giver...a friend pointed these verses out to me, maybe they can help clear some things up...
1 John 3:9
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that God's children do not make a practice of sinning, for God's Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.
...
I wonder if you know what God will do to those who change the written Word of God.
Do you know that a sinner will never enter into the kingdom of heaven?
(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:42:44
Ladonia, Jesus will be my judge, and if I sinned he will deal with me. My sinning or not sinning does not in any way excuse anyone who sins.
Having you say I sinned, just puts me in the same boat with Peter, and Paul. People make Peter and Paul sinners to justify their sinning. You are just doing what many do when they can't find any scripture that says I am wrong.
When certain people, one's who can't stand the truth, have no rebuttals left to block the truth, and after all the false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Giver, I don't believe that I ever denigrated, defamed, maligned, or villified you. If that's what you believe I did then I offer to you my sincerest apology. I simply said you are a sinner just like I and others did who have posted on this topic. We are not the ones who have said we are sinless, you did.
That's the point, Peter and Paul were sinners and God continued to abide in them. So, are you now revising all you statements and now saying that you are indeed a sinner? If so, I am happy that you now realize that.
Yes, all your quoted Srciptures are true, there is no doubt about it. So are the Scripture quotes that we all are sinners, that forgiveness is available to us not seven times, but seventy times seven. God does not abandon us when we sin, but always holds out His forgiveness and mercy towards us.
: MeMyself Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:38:07
Also, Giver...a friend pointed these verses out to me, maybe they can help clear some things up...
1 John 3:9
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that God's children do not make a practice of sinning, for God's Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.
...
(1 John 5:18) "We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.
: Ladonia Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:05:53
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:42:44
Ladonia, Jesus will be my judge, and if I sinned he will deal with me. My sinning or not sinning does not in any way excuse anyone who sins.
Having you say I sinned, just puts me in the same boat with Peter, and Paul. People make Peter and Paul sinners to justify their sinning. You are just doing what many do when they can't find any scripture that says I am wrong.
When certain people, one's who can't stand the truth, have no rebuttals left to block the truth, and after all the false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Giver, I don't believe that I ever denigrated, defamed, maligned, or villified you. If that's what you believe I did then I offer to you my sincerest apology. I simply said you are a sinner just like I and others did who have posted on this topic. We are not the ones who have said we are sinless, you did.
That's the point, Peter and Paul were sinners and God continued to abide in them. So, are you now revising all you statements and now saying that you are indeed a sinner? If so, I am happy that you now realize that.
Yes, all your quoted Srciptures are true, there is no doubt about it. So are the Scripture quotes that we all are sinners, that forgiveness is available to us not seven times, but seventy times seven. God does not abandon us when we sin, but always holds out His forgiveness and mercy towards us.
You seem to have a bad habit of reading words that are not written. In no way did I say that I sin. There is nothing in this world that would make me so evil as to deliberately commit a sin. No way would I exchange being one with God for anything.
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:29:47
: Ladonia Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:05:53
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:42:44
Ladonia, Jesus will be my judge, and if I sinned he will deal with me. My sinning or not sinning does not in any way excuse anyone who sins.
Having you say I sinned, just puts me in the same boat with Peter, and Paul. People make Peter and Paul sinners to justify their sinning. You are just doing what many do when they can't find any scripture that says I am wrong.
When certain people, one's who can't stand the truth, have no rebuttals left to block the truth, and after all the false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Giver, I don't believe that I ever denigrated, defamed, maligned, or villified you. If that's what you believe I did then I offer to you my sincerest apology. I simply said you are a sinner just like I and others did who have posted on this topic. We are not the ones who have said we are sinless, you did.
That's the point, Peter and Paul were sinners and God continued to abide in them. So, are you now revising all you statements and now saying that you are indeed a sinner? If so, I am happy that you now realize that.
Yes, all your quoted Srciptures are true, there is no doubt about it. So are the Scripture quotes that we all are sinners, that forgiveness is available to us not seven times, but seventy times seven. God does not abandon us when we sin, but always holds out His forgiveness and mercy towards us.
You seem to have a bad habit of reading words that are not written. In no way did I say that I sin. There is nothing in this world that would make me so evil as to deliberately commit a sin. No way would I exchange being one with God for anything.
You did sin, here on this thread. The severity of your sin was minor, but you did indeed sin. It' unbelievable that you cannot recognize that. You are of your own mind with the free will given to you by God. There is nothing more I can say. God bless.
: Ladonia Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 12:06:29
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:29:47
: Ladonia Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 11:05:53
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 10:42:44
Ladonia, Jesus will be my judge, and if I sinned he will deal with me. My sinning or not sinning does not in any way excuse anyone who sins.
Having you say I sinned, just puts me in the same boat with Peter, and Paul. People make Peter and Paul sinners to justify their sinning. You are just doing what many do when they can't find any scripture that says I am wrong.
When certain people, one's who can't stand the truth, have no rebuttals left to block the truth, and after all the false rebuttals have been exposed as such, they revert to the last tool which is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the truth.
Giver, I don't believe that I ever denigrated, defamed, maligned, or villified you. If that's what you believe I did then I offer to you my sincerest apology. I simply said you are a sinner just like I and others did who have posted on this topic. We are not the ones who have said we are sinless, you did.
That's the point, Peter and Paul were sinners and God continued to abide in them. So, are you now revising all you statements and now saying that you are indeed a sinner? If so, I am happy that you now realize that.
Yes, all your quoted Srciptures are true, there is no doubt about it. So are the Scripture quotes that we all are sinners, that forgiveness is available to us not seven times, but seventy times seven. God does not abandon us when we sin, but always holds out His forgiveness and mercy towards us.
You seem to have a bad habit of reading words that are not written. In no way did I say that I sin. There is nothing in this world that would make me so evil as to deliberately commit a sin. No way would I exchange being one with God for anything.
You did sin, here on this thread. The severity of your sin was minor, but you did indeed sin. It' unbelievable that you cannot recognize that. You are of your own mind with the free will given to you by God. There is nothing more I can say. God bless.
Telling one the truth is not a sin. Even if I would have said what I did in more harsh words it was not a sin. I was calling a lie a lie. When people lie and you catch him or her in a lie it is not a sin to point out the lie.
: Sinead Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:07:26
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:01:03
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then don't you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
In your defense giver this is true..
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
But when He saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where He was baptizing, He said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
The big distinctions are:
1. Jesus is God, The Word wrapped in Flesh, Giver is not
2. Pharisees were those in authority over the Jewish people, we are not
3. Jesus is speaking to those that are in authority over His people and are supposed to be representing Him and His Kingdom
4. Jesus never ministered condemnation or spoke cruelly to individuals
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:22:28
: chosenone Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:07:57
::doh::
Cant believe this is still going on. Come on guys, we all know that we sin. Paul says so, The Bible says so. Jesus died BECAUSE we do. What more do we need to know?I cant even believe that we are even discussing such a ridiculous idea.
"If we say we are without sin we DECIEVE ourselves,and the truth is NOT IN US". Giver is deceiving himself according to the Bible(God).
You have an opinion why dont you back up that opinion with scripture?
The Bible I read tells us a Christian does not sin. What bible do you read?
(1 John 3-10) Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I have backed it up with the verse that I KEEP on quoting. 'If we say we are without sin we decieve ourseleves and the truth is not in us'.
God says that the truth is not in you giver. Claiming to be without sin is a sin in itself!!!!!Pride and arrogance and lying are sins.
Why it is so vital for you to try and convince yourself that you dont sin? Did you maybe have parents who expected perfection?Clearly something has caused this in you.
: gospel Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 13:28:38
: Sinead Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:07:26
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 06:01:03
: Ladonia Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 21:02:18
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 15:19:08
: MeMyself Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 14:57:48
: Giver Fri Dec 09, 2011 - 09:51:19
So you say there is much scripture that says I have it wrong. Why then dont you rebuke me using scripture instead of your opinion?
Oh my goodness, Giver! I HAVE given you the scripture! Over and over and over again! I even asked you to go and read and find out for yourself. It is NOT my opinion! What I am sharing is FROM the WORD! If you knew it at all, you would recognize it.
Your answer is nothing but a cop out, and is garbage.
Giver, thank you for that answer. I knew that sooner or later you would show the world what you really are; a human being and a SINNER! You got a little exasperated there brother with the charges of "cop out" and then topping it off by saying "garbage". Now, was that really nice? See, you are just like the rest of us, human beings who eventually sin, no matter how hard we try to be of the Lord. But you are in luck, Our Lord Jesus Christ offers forgiveness to those who seek it, and a liitle pennace wouldn't hurt either. Hallelulah! Giver is just like the rest of us, a sinner. Now all you have to do is humble yourself and admit it! God bless.
You believe me to be bad, because I told the truth? Have you read scripture, and observed how Jesus, Peter, Paul talked to some people?
In your defense giver this is true..
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
But when He saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where He was baptizing, He said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
The big distinctions are:
1. Jesus is God, The Word wrapped in Flesh, Giver is not
2. Pharisees were those in authority over the Jewish people, we are not
3. Jesus is speaking to those that are in authority over His people and are supposed to be representing Him and His Kingdom
4. Jesus never ministered condemnation or spoke cruelly to individuals
(Matthew 16:23) "He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.
: chosenone Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 13:49:24
: Giver Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:22:28
: chosenone Sat Dec 10, 2011 - 07:07:57
::doh::
Cant believe this is still going on. Come on guys, we all know that we sin. Paul says so, The Bible says so. Jesus died BECAUSE we do. What more do we need to know?I cant even believe that we are even discussing such a ridiculous idea.
"If we say we are without sin we DECIEVE ourselves,and the truth is NOT IN US". Giver is deceiving himself according to the Bible(God).
You have an opinion why dont you back up that opinion with scripture?
The Bible I read tells us a Christian does not sin. What bible do you read?
(1 John 3-10) Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.
(Hebrews 10:26-31) If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I have backed it up with the verse that I KEEP on quoting. 'If we say we are without sin we decieve ourseleves and the truth is not in us'.
God says that the truth is not in you giver. Claiming to be without sin is a sin in itself!!!!!Pride and arrogance and lying are sins.
Why it is so vital for you to try and convince yourself that you dont sin? Did you maybe have parents who expected perfection?Clearly something has caused this in you.
If someone is a sinner then it only makes sense that they need to believe everyone is a sinner, so he or she can feel justified.
I keep sharing what John said about those who say they never have sinned, but some people just can't understand what John said, so I will post it again. You may not understand, but others might.
(1 John 1: 8-10) "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
rofl I love God, I just get a kick out of reading the bible sometimes.
giver said
"If someone is a sinner then it only makes sense that they need to believe everyone is a sinner, so he or she can feel justified"
You just make me laugh at your arrogance. I agree with God when He says that we have all sinned and we will all still sin till the day we die. We dont deliberately sin, but we still do because you and I and every other believer are human beings with failings and weaknesses.Thats why we need Jesus.
I wonder are you married? If you are, does your wife think you are perfect and never do anything wrong? Do your friends think you are sinless?Does your pastor think you are sinless?
You are totally decieved and living in cloud cuckoo land.