The other day I was arguing with a cousin on the subject of gay marriage and whether or not it should be LEGAL, and the following set of logical steps were brought up, and to be honest i couldn't think of any real repute, was wondering what you guys think.
Premise: Gay marriage should be illegal because the bible says it is wrong (I don't really believe there are any other valid reasons that I've seen)
Observation: The bible says that being in a religion other than Christianity (i.e. being a Muslim) is wrong (with arguably one or two exceptions).
Conclusion: Being a Muslim should be illegal, along with swearing, divorce, sex before marriage, lying, coveting and disrespecting your parents (ect).
Obviously (I think) the state don't have the right to make any of these things illegal.
Thoughts?
: TomMoney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 01:48:45
The other day I was arguing with a cousin on the subject of gay marriage and whether or not it should be LEGAL, and the following set of logical steps were brought up, and to be honest i couldn't think of any real repute, was wondering what you guys think.
Premise: Gay marriage should be illegal because the bible says it is wrong (I don't really believe there are any other valid reasons that I've seen)
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.The Word of God not only says it is wrong, it tells you that people that practice such will not inherit salvation.
You're at a crossroad in life it seems. Follow the way of the world, or follow the way of God and make your decision based on your selection.
: TomMoney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 01:48:45
Observation: The bible says that being in a religion other than Christianity (i.e. being a Muslim) is wrong (with arguably one or two exceptions).
Conclusion: Being a Muslim should be illegal, along with swearing, divorce, sex before marriage, lying, coveting and disrespecting your parents (ect).
Obviously (I think) the state don't have the right to make any of these things illegal.
As for following anything or anyone, accept Christ and the Apostles he commissioned:
(James 4:4) Adulterers (3432) and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God."Adulterers " - 3432 μοιχός [moichos /moy·khos/] n m. Perhaps a primary word; TDNT 4:729; TDNTA 605; GK 3659; Four occurrences; AV translates as "adulterer
Mmmmmmk, well thx, i'm sure your meant well and are not just trolling me, but i'm looking for a debate deal here rather than advice on something. I will say this though:
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 02:00:48
: TomMoney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 01:48:45
The Word of God not only says it is wrong, it tells you that people that practice such will not inherit salvation.
You're at a crossroad in life it seems. Follow the way of the world, or follow the way of God and make your decision based on your selection.
As for following anything or anyone, accept Christ and the Apostles he commissioned:
(James 4:4) Adulterers (3432) and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
If one claims to have faith in Jesus Christ, such a one can not also have faith in astrology, Buddah, Muhammad, etc.
1. I don't think god is going to deny anyone into his kingdom for doing anything other than something "wrong".
2. I would honestly say that disusing the legalistics of gay marriage is not really going to spurn a cross roads in my life
3. I don't think that's what that verse means at all. I'm pretty such i can "have faith" that the stars are going to tell me that i'm going to have a strange encounter tomorrow (i don't for the record) and also have faith that Jesus Christ is my lord and savior at the same time.
: TomMoney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 02:16:36
Mmmmmmk, well thx, i'm sure your meant well and are not just trolling me, but i'm looking for a debate deal here rather than advice on something. I will say this though:
1. I don't think god is going to deny anyone into his kingdom for doing anything other than something "wrong".
You clearly do not know the Word.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
People that practice such things, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Period.
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 02:20:46
People that practice such things, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Period.
It doesn't matter if they don't inherit the kingdom, everything from God is good and that being free will first and foremost. Free will is our gift from God. Gay people can't live forever anyway, they can't produce offspring together.
Stopping someone from exercising their gift of free will from God I think is bad.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:03:09
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 02:20:46
People that practice such things, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Period.
It doesn't matter if they don't inherit the kingdom
Well then end of discussion. I'm a Christian and it matters to me.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Welcome to "Christian Forums".
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:12:47
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:03:09
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 02:20:46
People that practice such things, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Period.
It doesn't matter if they don't inherit the kingdom
Well then end of discussion. I'm a Christian and it matters to me.
The bible says they won't inherit the kingdom, that's a done deal. I believe the bible therefore it matters not to me what gay people do in the meantime. They aren't getting in the kingdom.
Why does something that you have no control over matter to you? You can't change what God does. Do you want them to enter the kingdom? I'm a little confused by what matters to you about the fact that God won't let them inherit the kingdom?
I have no idea what you're talking about. Just look back to the beginning of this conversation and you'll see where I stand.
God bless,
Jon-Paul
I did read it and I am under the impression that you are against Gay marriage, correct?
Then don't do it.
What other people do, should not matter to us. God gives us free will, it is not good to take what God has given to everyone away from anyone.
What makes it matter, because you are a Christian? Christians believe Gods word is valid, if he says something, I know he means it therefore it is of no concern to me what other people do. It matters not what others do.
So why does it matter to you?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:48:29
I did read it and I am under the impression that you are against Gay marriage, correct?
Then don't do it.
I stand with God my friend. If homosexuality is an abomination to God, then it is an abomination to me.
If you don't like that, then perhaps you've come to the only true God, with the wrong ideas in mind.
Marraige is for a man and a woman:
(Mark 10:2-9) And there came unto him Pharisees, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. But Jesus said unto them, For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of the creation, Male and female made he them. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the twain shall become one flesh: so that they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Homosexuality is not of God, otherwise it would be approved of by God. There are many people not led by the Spirit of God. And such will have their end. Not in the kingdom of God with those that have overcome.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Why? Because it is an abomination to God, and therefore an abomination to me.
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage?
God gives us free will, free will is good. Everything from God is good. You are making something God has given freely to everyone as a bad thing. We can't force people to believe in God, it is their choice not to and that's OK with God because he has other plans for them which shouldn't matter to us because we are not a part of it.
HOWEVER, attempting to take away what God has given to everyone may not be a good thing in God's eyes either. Just some food for thought.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage?
God gives us free will, free will is good. Everything from God is good. You are making something God has given freely to everyone as a bad thing. We can't force people to believe in God, it is their choice not to and that's OK with God because he has other plans for them which shouldn't matter to us because we are not a part of it.
HOWEVER, attempting to take away what God has given to everyone may not be a good thing in God's eyes either. Just some food for thought.
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
DigitalAttorney Please delete your msgs in your inbox it says its full. I have a few questions if you dont mind :)
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I tried to msg you back but it says your inbox is full again - try deleting all messages once again :)
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:03:09
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 02:20:46
People that practice such things, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Period.
It doesn't matter if they don't inherit the kingdom, everything from God is good and that being free will first and foremost. Free will is our gift from God. Gay people can't live forever anyway, they can't produce offspring together.
Stopping someone from exercising their gift of free will from God I think is bad.
Why doesn't it matter that people by the millions are going to be condemned to hellfire forever? Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but God tells us we must love people and deliver the message of hope in Jesus Christ, so that they will turn away from their sin! If you don't care, then God accounts that as hatred toward others.
There is nothing good in the practice of sin. Homosexuality isn't from him.
God wants people to turn to him for salvation and to lay down their will to his will, which is so much better.
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I agree with you 100%, I don't know where you see any disagreement except that fact that I say everything from God is good, free will being the first gift he gave us.
The fact remains, when we go against someones will, such as murdering them or stopping someone from getting married (whether gay or straight), we are hurting others by going against their will. We are in essence forcing our own will on them and that shouldn't be. It is a hate crime.
Gay people are both in agreement of the marriage to each other, they are not hurting anyone but themselves and that is within their own consent. When we try to stop them from this, that goes against their will and puts us on the side of forcing something against their will because it is non consensual between us and them.
If you want to live under a system that will eradicate homosexuality entirely (not trusting God to do it alone), I suggest you look into Islam.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
HOWEVER, attempting to take away what God has given to everyone may not be a good thing in God's eyes either. Just some food for thought.
What is good about fornication and homosexuality? Homosexuals have no right to marriage---even though some misguided and weak-willed government hacks say they do. No one is trying to squelch someone's precious will. We are trying to uphold the goodness of God for people's sake.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I suggest you look into Islam.
Actually I was thinking the same for you. If you don't like the fact that those that practice homosexuality are disapproved of by God, then maybe the false Allah is who you are made for. I don't know, but what I do know is that marraige is a union between man and woman, according to my Bible.
(Mat 19:4-6) He answered them, "Haven't you read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female' and said, 'That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."
I repeat if you support sexually immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, drunkenness, and the slanderering of individuals then you support sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And if you support the sin in their sinning, then I nor God support you.
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I suggest you look into Islam.
Actually I was thinking the same for you. If you don't like the fact that those that practice homosexuality are disapproved of by God, then maybe the false Allah is who you are made for. I don't know, but what I do know is that marraige is a union between man and woman, according to my Bible.
(Mat 19:4-6) He answered them, "Haven't you read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female' and said, 'That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."
I repeat if you support sexually immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, drunkenness, and the slanderering of individuals then you support sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And if you support the sin in their sinning, then I nor God support you.
Islam doesn't allow any gay marriage. I don't want to be a part of a system that controls the will of other people.
Even God can't control the will for gay people to be gay, that's why they don't inherit the kingdom, that's the only part he controls, who get's in and who stays out.
Only Islam controls the will of people, they place themselves above God. And so does everyone else that tries to control another person's will. ::smile::
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I suggest you look into Islam.
Actually I was thinking the same for you. If you don't like the fact that those that practice homosexuality are disapproved of by God, then maybe the false Allah is who you are made for. I don't know, but what I do know is that marraige is a union between man and woman, according to my Bible.
(Mat 19:4-6) He answered them, "Haven't you read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female' and said, 'That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."
I repeat if you support sexually immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, drunkenness, and the slanderering of individuals then you support sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And if you support the sin in their sinning, then I nor God support you.
Islam doesn't allow any gay marriage. I don't want to be a part of a system that controls the will of other people.
Even God can't control the will for gay people to be gay, that's why they don't inherit the kingdom, that's the only part he controls, who get's in and who stays out.
Only Islam controls the will of people, they place themselves above God. And so does everyone else that tries to control another person's will. ::smile::
No one is trying to control anyone's will. That is absurd, BS.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I suggest you look into Islam.
Actually I was thinking the same for you. If you don't like the fact that those that practice homosexuality are disapproved of by God, then maybe the false Allah is who you are made for. I don't know, but what I do know is that marraige is a union between man and woman, according to my Bible.
(Mat 19:4-6) He answered them, "Haven't you read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female' and said, 'That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."
I repeat if you support sexually immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, drunkenness, and the slanderering of individuals then you support sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And if you support the sin in their sinning, then I nor God support you.
Even God can't control the will for gay people to be gay, that's why they don't inherit the kingdom
God is sovereign my friend. Obedience and disobedience are choices. There is your free will. To obey or disobey.
When it says in 1 Co 6:9-10 that homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom, that should tell you the obvious.
(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
They receive that.
Now you go on and support gays in their ways and you even marry them if you like, and see where your disbelief gets you, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord by honoring his word.
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
God is sovereign my friend. Obedience and disobedience are choices. There is your free will. To obey or disobey.
When it says in 1 Co 6:9-10 that homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom, that should tell you the obvious.
(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
They receive that.
Now you go on and support gays in their ways and you even marry them if you like, and see where your disbelief gets you, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord by honoring his word.
Exactly...we say they should not be given our blessing to marry, because their sexual behavior is sin and spelled out as such in the word. The argument of taking away their free will is absurd. It is a manipulation to attempt to shame opponents into silence on the subject. No one CAN take away their will...we can't take away their desire to fornicate with the same gender, but we can say we protect marriage to be between ONE man and ONE woman.
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
I suggest you look into Islam.
Actually I was thinking the same for you. If you don't like the fact that those that practice homosexuality are disapproved of by God, then maybe the false Allah is who you are made for. I don't know, but what I do know is that marraige is a union between man and woman, according to my Bible.
(Mat 19:4-6) He answered them, "Haven't you read that the one who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female' and said, 'That is why a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, man must never separate."
I repeat if you support sexually immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, drunkenness, and the slanderering of individuals then you support sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
And if you support the sin in their sinning, then I nor God support you.
Even God can't control the will for gay people to be gay, that's why they don't inherit the kingdom
God is sovereign my friend. Obedience and disobedience are choices. There is your free will. To obey or disobey.
When it says in 1 Co 6:9-10 that homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom, that should tell you the obvious.
(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
They receive that.
Now you go on and support gays in their ways and you even marry them if you like, and see where your disbelief gets you, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord by honoring his word.
I don't have any gay friends, I don't work along side them and I don't associate with them either. I also don't pretend to do God's job, what he says goes, there are no if's and's or but's about it. I cannot change what God has already done by not allowing them into the kingdom. It's a pointless battle of us against them, we already won. ::smile::
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:46:35
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
God is sovereign my friend. Obedience and disobedience are choices. There is your free will. To obey or disobey.
When it says in 1 Co 6:9-10 that homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom, that should tell you the obvious.
(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
They receive that.
Now you go on and support gays in their ways and you even marry them if you like, and see where your disbelief gets you, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord by honoring his word.
but we can say we protect marriage to be between ONE man and ONE woman.
Islam already does that, do you really want to be under that kind of a system? What about people that don't believe in God, should we just exterminate them along with all the other infidels? The adulterers? There are other sins that are being ignored that Islam does not ignore.
All it takes is one step down for it to all go downhill. I don't think America should take that step but unfortunately it already has.
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
It certainly is your job if you are a Christian. If you're not, it is my job to help you find salvation in Jesus Christ.
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15
Your scripture posted is talking about the Holy Ghost and his job to convict people of their sin, but if you are not communicating the gospel, then you hinder his work in and through you.
I live in the UK where there is talk that the govt will make same sex marriages legal. I hope that pray that it never happens. I also hope and pray that no church leader will ever take part in marrying any same sex couples.
We have a close friend who is living with another man. We love them and pray for them. God is working in them and the other man is coming to Christ. We both believe that God will convict them both of the seriousness of what they are doing. They are lovely guys and they will do the right thing in the end I am sure of that.
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:57:02
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15
I am, on the internet, www.
Don't take God's gift of free will away from people like Islam. ::smile::
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
Of course its our job. God uses us to lead others to Him, and to pray for them. We are His body on earth.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:50:15
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:46:35
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
God is sovereign my friend. Obedience and disobedience are choices. There is your free will. To obey or disobey.
When it says in 1 Co 6:9-10 that homosexuals do not inherit the kingdom, that should tell you the obvious.
(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
They receive that.
Now you go on and support gays in their ways and you even marry them if you like, and see where your disbelief gets you, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord by honoring his word.
but we can say we protect marriage to be between ONE man and ONE woman.
Islam already does that, do you really want to be under that kind of a system? What about people that don't believe in God, should we just exterminate them along with all the other infidels? The adulterers? There are other sins that are being ignored that Islam does not ignore.
All it takes is one step down for it to all go downhill. I don't think America should take that step but unfortunately it already has.
And I think America is one step away from God growing sick and tired of us flying our fist in His face, applauding and giving sin our blessing and showing no fear of Him at all.
As for me, I will be like Joshua who stood up and said "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
Oh please! ::frown:: Cop out much? Jesus TOLD us to GO and make disciples of all nations! He WANTS us to share Him with others.
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:08:13
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
Oh please! ::frown:: Cop out much? Jesus TOLD us to GO and make disciples of all nations! He WANTS us to share Him with others.
Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom.
Why only pick on gay marriage, there is a bunch of others on the list that are blatantly being ignored.
Why doesn't America put a law into effect that adulterers are not allowed to remarry? They aren't gay people but heterosexual. Does that make it ok? NO.
You can't condemn just one without condemning them all. We can't pick and choose which laws God wants us to uphold.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:58:34
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:57:02
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15
I am, on the internet, www. Don't take God's gift of free will away from people like Islam. ::smile::
Really? What about in
real life.com??
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:14:30
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:08:13
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
Oh please! ::frown:: Cop out much? Jesus TOLD us to GO and make disciples of all nations! He WANTS us to share Him with others.
Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom.
Why only pick on gay marriage, there is a bunch of others on the list that are blatantly being ignored.
Why doesn't America put a law into effect that adulterers are not allowed to remarry? They aren't gay people but heterosexual. Does that make it ok? NO.
You can't condemn just one without condemning them all. We can't pick and choose which laws God wants us to uphold.
Adulterers aren't an organized body who stand on street corners with placards demanding something they don't have!
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:14:30
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:08:13
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
Oh please! ::frown:: Cop out much? Jesus TOLD us to GO and make disciples of all nations! He WANTS us to share Him with others.
Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom.
Why only pick on gay marriage, there is a bunch of others on the list that are blatantly being ignored.
Why doesn't America put a law into effect that adulterers are not allowed to remarry? They aren't gay people but heterosexual. Does that make it ok? NO.
You can't condemn just one without condemning them all. We can't pick and choose which laws God wants us to uphold.
What a ridiculous argument! Because marriage between opposite gender fornicators makes them sin no more! Their sexual act is NO longer fornication, but sanctioned under the boundaries of marriage like God intended!
ALL sin can be forgiven and ALL sin can be turned from. You DO realize that don't you? No one is CONDEMNING gay people, that is God's job to condemn ANYONE...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:05:59
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:58:16
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
Bitter Sweet: I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
DigitalAttorney: You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
MeMyself @ Bitter Sweet: Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Bitter Sweet: Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
DigitalAttorney: (John 12:48) The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Your day is approaching, with you unaware. His word has told you that homosexuality is a sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
If you turn a blind eye to sin, you are no better off than the sinner.
(James 5:20) Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Obviously, that is not you. You will stand condemned.
Bitter Sweet: Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom. Why only pick on gay marriage
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
(Romans 2:19-23) and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
You who claim homosexuality is a sin, do you support their marriages?
(Romans 2:24) For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:20:09
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
Again...oh PUHLEASE! No one said laws make people righteous...nice one again though. You are QUITE gifted in the craft of manipulating what people are saying and twisting it. ::frown::
If the issue is put before the PEOPLE to VOTE upon, it is our right and even obligation to vote our convictions. It is my conviction that to vote FOR gay marriage is the same as giving it my blessing.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:25:43
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
::frown:: The above it just like children do: "HE did it FIIIIIIRST! Why do you ALWAYS pick on ME??" ::frown::
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:37:58
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:25:43
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
::frown:: The above it just like children do: "HE did it FIIIIIIRST! Why do you ALWAYS pick on ME?????" ::frown::
There is nothing wrong with being fair. ::smile::
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:36:38
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:20:09
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
Again...oh PUHLEASE! No one said laws make people righteous...nice one again though. You are QUITE gifted in the craft of manipulating what people are saying and twisting it. ::frown::
If the issue is put before the PEOPLE to VOTE upon, it is our right and even obligation to vote our convictions. It is my conviction that to vote FOR gay marriage is the same as giving it my blessing.
That's fine, you can have your opinion of me and gay people. I'll keep mine to myself to be on the safe side. ::smile::
I don't vote or get involved in politics. I am completely impartial to the laws man creates.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:41:36
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:37:58
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:25:43
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
::frown:: The above it just like children do: "HE did it FIIIIIIRST! Why do you ALWAYS pick on ME?????" ::frown::
There is nothing wrong with being fair. ::smile::
But to insist upon it takes away DigitalAttornys free will to choose to be fair or not...
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:43:08
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:36:38
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:20:09
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
Again...oh PUHLEASE! No one said laws make people righteous...nice one again though. You are QUITE gifted in the craft of manipulating what people are saying and twisting it. ::frown::
If the issue is put before the PEOPLE to VOTE upon, it is our right and even obligation to vote our convictions. It is my conviction that to vote FOR gay marriage is the same as giving it my blessing.
That's fine, you can have your opinion of me and gay people. I'll keep mine to myself to be on the safe side. ::smile::
I don't vote or get involved in politics. I am completely impartial to the laws man creates.
Um...thanks? for your permission...but you've no idea what my opinion of "gay people" is.
If you don't vote or don't get involved in politics, maybe you should not be involved in threads that speak of those things. ::shrug::
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:43:21
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:41:36
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:37:58
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:25:43
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
::frown:: The above it just like children do: "HE did it FIIIIIIRST! Why do you ALWAYS pick on ME?????" ::frown::
There is nothing wrong with being fair. ::smile::
But to insist upon it takes away DigitalAttornys free will to choose to be fair or not...
I agree, and it's a good thing nobody forced him to say what he did. But we call all see how he bases his judgement.
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:45:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:43:08
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:36:38
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:20:09
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
Again...oh PUHLEASE! No one said laws make people righteous...nice one again though. You are QUITE gifted in the craft of manipulating what people are saying and twisting it. ::frown::
If the issue is put before the PEOPLE to VOTE upon, it is our right and even obligation to vote our convictions. It is my conviction that to vote FOR gay marriage is the same as giving it my blessing.
That's fine, you can have your opinion of me and gay people. I'll keep mine to myself to be on the safe side. ::smile::
I don't vote or get involved in politics. I am completely impartial to the laws man creates.
Um...thanks? for your permission...but you've no idea what my opinion of "gay people" is.
If you don't vote or don't get involved in politics, maybe you should not be involved in threads that speak of those things. ::shrug::
Knowing that they don't have your blessing in marriage means to me that you are leaning towards their repentance and hope for that more than anything. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I would like to see that too. BUT we can't change the hearts of men, only God can do that. All we can do is live by example.
Just because I'm not a part of this world doesn't mean I don't consider the things happening it.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:41:36
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:37:58
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:25:43
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
::frown:: The above it just like children do: "HE did it FIIIIIIRST! Why do you ALWAYS pick on ME?????" ::frown::
There is nothing wrong with being fair. ::smile::
What is fair about lowering the standard of morality in the nation by bending over backward for a minority of perverse people to do something that God has created for only certain people---not them?
What is fair about exposing our children to perversity in their culture and in being taught in their schools as something normalized? Answer us this!
It is fair to make a stand against such a move and we are and will always.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:54:38
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:43:21
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:41:36
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:37:58
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:25:43
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
: Sinead Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:57:39
So we shouldnt put murderers in jail then? It shouldn't be illegal?
Be fair DigitalAttorny, I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind. ::smile::
You're not really an attorney, are you? rofl
::frown:: The above it just like children do: "HE did it FIIIIIIRST! Why do you ALWAYS pick on ME?????" ::frown::
There is nothing wrong with being fair. ::smile::
But to insist upon it takes away DigitalAttornys free will to choose to be fair or not...
I agree, and it's a good thing nobody forced him to say what he did. But we call all see how he bases his judgement.
And you yours. ::noworries:: rofl ::giggle::
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 10:03:50
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:45:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:43:08
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:36:38
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:20:09
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
Again...oh PUHLEASE! No one said laws make people righteous...nice one again though. You are QUITE gifted in the craft of manipulating what people are saying and twisting it. ::frown::
If the issue is put before the PEOPLE to VOTE upon, it is our right and even obligation to vote our convictions. It is my conviction that to vote FOR gay marriage is the same as giving it my blessing.
That's fine, you can have your opinion of me and gay people. I'll keep mine to myself to be on the safe side. ::smile::
I don't vote or get involved in politics. I am completely impartial to the laws man creates.
Um...thanks? for your permission...but you've no idea what my opinion of "gay people" is.
If you don't vote or don't get involved in politics, maybe you should not be involved in threads that speak of those things. ::shrug::
Knowing that they don't have your blessing in marriage means to me that you are leaning towards their repentance and hope for that more than anything. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I would like to see that too. BUT we can't change the hearts of men, only God can do that. All we can do is live by example.
Just because I'm not a part of this world doesn't mean I don't consider the things happening it.
All we can do is live by example, speak up when give opportunity and if asked to VOTE, vote your CONVICTIONS!
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:42:27
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 10:03:50
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:45:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:43:08
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:36:38
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 09:20:09
: MeMyself Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:19:19...what we are saying is that we will not give gay marriage our blessing PERIOD!
That's obvious and nobody has to give their blessing. However that doesn't give us a right to prevent them or anyone such as adulterers from marrying.
Being unfair in the laws of God doesn't make a person righteous.
Again...oh PUHLEASE! No one said laws make people righteous...nice one again though. You are QUITE gifted in the craft of manipulating what people are saying and twisting it. ::frown::
If the issue is put before the PEOPLE to VOTE upon, it is our right and even obligation to vote our convictions. It is my conviction that to vote FOR gay marriage is the same as giving it my blessing.
That's fine, you can have your opinion of me and gay people. I'll keep mine to myself to be on the safe side. ::smile::
I don't vote or get involved in politics. I am completely impartial to the laws man creates.
Um...thanks? for your permission...but you've no idea what my opinion of "gay people" is.
If you don't vote or don't get involved in politics, maybe you should not be involved in threads that speak of those things. ::shrug::
Knowing that they don't have your blessing in marriage means to me that you are leaning towards their repentance and hope for that more than anything. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I would like to see that too. BUT we can't change the hearts of men, only God can do that. All we can do is live by example.
Just because I'm not a part of this world doesn't mean I don't consider the things happening it.
All we can do is live by example, speak up when give opportunity and if asked to VOTE, vote your CONVICTIONS!
MeMyself..you can't reason with a troll especially this one who mocks the Holy Spirit.
Back to the OP:
: TomMoney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 01:48:45
Obviously (I think) the state don't have the right to make any of these things illegal.
Thoughts?
The state has a right to uphold the morals of the people. If the morality quotient has gone down the toilet, then the laws will reflect that---which is what is happening today.
Those of us who have strong biblical morals, and value decency are rightly up in arms about the changes that are occurring so quickly.
Seeing as God instituted marriage and performed the first marriage between a man and a woman and his command to them was to be fruitful and multiply, we know that he could not have been extending that same command to two men, two women or a human and animal. Therefore what has always been concerning marriage must never be tampered with. Why it is happening now some 6000 years later is very revealing as to where we stand on God's time clock for humanity.
Jesus is coming VERY, VERY soon!
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:51:05
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:15:08
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:31:21
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:05:59
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:58:16
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
Bitter Sweet: I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
DigitalAttorney: You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
MeMyself @ Bitter Sweet: Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Bitter Sweet: Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
DigitalAttorney: (John 12:48) The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Your day is approaching, with you unaware. His word has told you that homosexuality is a sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
If you turn a blind eye to sin, you are no better off than the sinner.
(James 5:20) Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Obviously, that is not you. You will stand condemned.
Bitter Sweet: Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom. Why only pick on gay marriage
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
(Romans 2:19-23) and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
You who claim homosexuality is a sin, do you support their marriages?
(Romans 2:24) For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Bitter Sweet: I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind.
DigitalAttorney: My judgments are dispensed one matter at a time, and in this particular case regarding the marrying of homosexuals, as I quoted, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Bitter Sweet: we can all see how [you base your] judgement.
DigitalAttorney: (John 7:24) Do not judge according to sight, but judge righteous judgment
I judge without hypocrisy and according to the Word of the Lord:
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
As such, I judge the abominable act of homosexuality as the foundation for homosexual marriage. Therefore the union of homosexuals cannot be holy. And
[Hebrews 12:14] ... without holiness no one will see the Lord.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:58:34
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:57:02
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:53:40
: Merryone Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:49:45
BS:
We already won? Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mark 16:15
I am, on the internet, www. Don't take God's gift of free will away from people like Islam. ::smile::
I guess you are not aware that during the millenial reign Jesus will be the world's only governor and homosexuality will certainly be illegal along with any other sin.
You didn't answer my previous question. You say we shouldn't take people's free will away from them - so then murderers should be allowed to murder freely without prosecution?
Rapists should be allowed to rape anyone without prosecution?
If someone breaks into your house and tries to murder you, don't call the police - after all by your reasoning that person has free will, you shouldn't take their free will away from them by having them prosecuted.
Makes noooo sense at all. ::frown::
Go back and read the original post, please, all of you so we can talk about the exact topic at hand. As to the above post by Sinead, there are tonnes of reasons other than christias ones as to why rape, murder (ect) should be illigal, but i can only find reasons that are purley biblical as to why gay marriage should be illigal.
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 16:07:34
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:51:05
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:15:08
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:31:21
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:05:59
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:58:16
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
Bitter Sweet: I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
DigitalAttorney: You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
MeMyself @ Bitter Sweet: Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Bitter Sweet: Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
DigitalAttorney: (John 12:48) The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Your day is approaching, with you unaware. His word has told you that homosexuality is a sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
If you turn a blind eye to sin, you are no better off than the sinner.
(James 5:20) Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Obviously, that is not you. You will stand condemned.
Bitter Sweet: Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom. Why only pick on gay marriage
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
(Romans 2:19-23) and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
You who claim homosexuality is a sin, do you support their marriages?
(Romans 2:24) For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Bitter Sweet: I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind.
DigitalAttorney: My judgments are dispensed one matter at a time, and in this particular case regarding the marrying of homosexuals, as I quoted, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Bitter Sweet: we can all see how [you base your] judgement.
DigitalAttorney: (John 7:24) Do not judge according to sight, but judge righteous judgment
I judge without hypocrisy and according to the Word of the Lord:
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
As such, I judge the abominable act of homosexuality as the foundation for homosexual marriage. Therefore the union of homosexuals cannot be holy. And
[Hebrews 12:14] ... without holiness no one will see the Lord.
TomMoney:... i can only find reasons that are purley biblical as to why gay marriage should be illigal.
DigitalAttorney:
(2 John 1:10-11) If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
What other reason do you need, Tom?
Okay, i really don't think your getting the point of what i'm trying to say here, please just read what i'm about to say, think it thought and then post a reply.
If you think that you only need biblical reasons to make something ILLIGAL, then the conclusion if you think that it would be right to make being a Muslim illegal, as in put people in jail because there Muslim. Do you think that would be right?
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 04:42:57
Go back and read the original post, please, all of you so we can talk about the exact topic at hand. As to the above post by Sinead, there are tonnes of reasons other than christias ones as to why rape, murder (ect) should be illigal, but i can only find reasons that are purley biblical as to why gay marriage should be illigal.
Tom, when we rely on our own reasoning we can justify any sin, even murder.
We have to obey God's law over man's law, and God's law says homosexuality is an abomination. Under the OT law homosexuals were put to death. This is how serious it is.
The laws of the land often don't follow the law of God, but we follow God first, so yes homosexuality should be illegal for the reason that God says it is a perversion of the most serious kind. If that's what God says then it's good enough for me.
Like I said in a previous post, all sin will be illegal when Jesus reigns on the earth, including being a muslim, or any false religion.
Strip clubs will not exist, abortion will not happen, Christ will not tolerate these things.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:04:00
Okay, i really don't think your getting the point of what i'm trying to say here, please just read what i'm about to say, think it thought and then post a reply.
If you think that you only need biblical reasons to make something ILLIGAL, then the conclusion if you think that it would be right to make being a Muslim illegal, as in put people in jail because there Muslim. Do you think that would be right?
Why would it be right to jail someone for a religion? it isn't right for a homosexual, either, although it once was legal to kill them, by God's decree.
We do need a biblical reason for legislating everything moral. What's right is right and God is right.
You are still side stepping the main question i'm asking, so could you please answer it:
Do you think that it should be illegal, as in people should be put in jail, for not being christian? Because that's exactly what your saying (that you only nee the bible to say something is wrong for it to be put into the law of a country)
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:36:46
You are still side stepping the main question i'm asking, so could you please answer it:
Do you think that it should be illegal, as in people should be put in jail, for not being christian? Because that's exactly what your saying...
No one is saying that because no one believes that.
Exactly, and you still didn't answer my question...
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:42:08
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 04:48:07
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 16:07:34
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:51:05
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 15:15:08
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:31:21
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 08:05:59
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:58:16
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:38:45
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:29:49
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 07:22:37
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58:52
: DigitalAttorney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 06:09:33
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 05:56:32
Bitter Sweet: I believe you but do you want someone to take away your free will of trying to stop gay marriage? God gives us free will, free will is good.
DigitalAttorney: You really have no idea of the depravity you speak, do you?
God gives you the Word for you to know what is approved of. All contradictory to it is sin:
(Romans 6:14 ... 2 Peter 2:19] For sin shall not be your master ... For a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
If you choose to sin (go against the Word) or support it in such a way as to turn a blind eye to it, then that is your choice. As a Christian though, my stance is firm and with the Word of God when I say homosexuality is abhorrent to God and thus who practice it.
MeMyself @ Bitter Sweet: Have you actually tried to lead a homosexual to the Lord?
Bitter Sweet: Not my job.
John 16:8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:
DigitalAttorney: (John 12:48) The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Your day is approaching, with you unaware. His word has told you that homosexuality is a sin.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
If you turn a blind eye to sin, you are no better off than the sinner.
(James 5:20) Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Obviously, that is not you. You will stand condemned.
Bitter Sweet: Ok, what are you doing about preventing adulterers from remarrying (some people believe even looking at porn is adultery)? It's on the list of people that won't inherit the kingdom. Why only pick on gay marriage
DigitalAttorney: Gay marraige is the topic.
(Romans 2:19-23) and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
You who claim homosexuality is a sin, do you support their marriages?
(Romans 2:24) For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Bitter Sweet: I didn't go off topic first. If you want to be righteous, you must be fair in all your judgements and of sound mind.
DigitalAttorney: My judgments are dispensed one matter at a time, and in this particular case regarding the marrying of homosexuals, as I quoted, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Bitter Sweet: we can all see how [you base your] judgement.
DigitalAttorney: (John 7:24) Do not judge according to sight, but judge righteous judgment
I judge without hypocrisy and according to the Word of the Lord:
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
As such, I judge the abominable act of homosexuality as the foundation for homosexual marriage. Therefore the union of homosexuals cannot be holy. And
[Hebrews 12:14] ... without holiness no one will see the Lord.
TomMoney:... i can only find reasons that are purley biblical as to why gay marriage should be illigal.
DigitalAttorney: (2 John 1:10-11) If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
What other reason do you need, Tom?
TomMoney: If you think that you only need biblical reasons to make something ILLIGAL, then the conclusion if you think that it would be right to make being a Muslim illegal, as in put people in jail because there Muslim. Do you think that would be right?
DigitalAttorney: Tom, what you make legal and illegal in your secular world means nothing to me, nor should it any Christian.
(2 Timothy 2:4) No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer.
What matters is what we think and what we do. If you want to vote for homosexuals marrying go ahead, but my Christian brethren must stand for the Word, and in doing so, we will not vote for such abominations.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:40:13
Exactly, and you still didn't answer my question...
Sure did.
DigitalAtturney: Dude, your can't you see that your taking the cop out route, to avoid the logical conclusion to my argument. Also, love the indirect implication that i'm not a christian. Also, your knowledge of scripture is impressive.
OtherPersonI'mTalkngTo: It wasn't an answer, it was an around about statement that implied something that you didn't want to say directly because you know it will prove my point, which is, for the last time:
The only reason for gay marriage being illegal are biblical ones
Hence, if you think that you can use purely biblical ones to make something illegal, than you should think that being a Muslim (ect) should be illegal.
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:42:08
(2 Timothy 2:4) No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer.
What matters is what we think and what we do. If you want to vote for homosexuals marrying go ahead, but my Christian brethren must stand for the Word, and in doing so, we will not vote for such abominations.
So you don't vote at all since you don't get involved in civilian affairs? Isn't it such a freedom to not be a part of this world, instead we are citizens of the universe with God! Doesn't get any freer than this!
DigitalAtturney: Dude, your can't you see that your taking the cop out route to avoid the logical conclusion to my argument. Also, love the indirect implication that i'm not a christian. Also, your knowledge of scripture is impressive.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:49:02
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:42:08
(2 Timothy 2:4) No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer.
What matters is what we think and what we do. If you want to vote for homosexuals marrying go ahead, but my Christian brethren must stand for the Word, and in doing so, we will not vote for such abominations.
Bitter Sweet: So you don't vote at all since you don't get involved in civilian affairs? Isn't it such a freedom to not be a part of this world, instead we are citizens of the universe with God! Doesn't get any freer than this!
DigitalAttorney: What it means is what I said. If you want to vote for homosexuals marrying go ahead, but my Christian brethren must stand for the Word, and in doing so, we will not vote for such abominations. Our Commander is the Lord and it is His word which governs our ideology.
Tomoney, what about you, if you had a choice to vote whether homosexuals should have the right to marry the same as straight people - what would you vote?
I think for me this is the core issue here. Homosexuals are not and never will be married in the eyes of God regardless of what the law says.
God has made marriage to be between a husband and a wife.
The country itself will choose whether or not to allow them to get 'married' but we should stand against that and i think that is what people are trying to say.
Your still stepping around the question that I've been asking
this
entire
thread
and yet no one can seem to answer.
And to answer YOUR question, i would vote with what i believe, that in this country, the government, nor the people have the right to enforce their religion on others.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:44:12
The only reason for gay marriage being illegal are biblical ones
Hence, if you think that you can use purely biblical ones to make something illegal, than you should think that being a Muslim (ect) should be illegal.
I can't see one biblical reason for making Islam illegal. It is an ideology, a religion. I do see a biblical reason for making homosexual marriage illegal, as it is a morality issue. Homosexuality is a demonic condition, a spiritual stronghold in a person and what we are dealing with is an epidemic of demonic sickness of the soul which is influencing all cultures in the world.
We who are the people of God have to make a stand against it, which we are doing way too late, but nevertheless, we need to do so. We need to stem the tide, and reach out to these people and show them Christ, and rescue them from the evil one---not cater to their whims. That is the right-thinking person's answer.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:56:46
Your still stepping around the question that I've been asking
this
entire
thread
and yet no one can seem to answer.
And to answer YOUR question, i would vote with what i believe, that in this country, the government, nor the people have the right to enforce their religion on others.
If you wanted to vote for homosexuals to get 'married' then that is up to you.
But we have all stated we would not and will not do that.
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:04:12
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:51:00
: Bitter Sweet Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:49:02
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 05:42:08
(2 Timothy 2:4) No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer.
What matters is what we think and what we do. If you want to vote for homosexuals marrying go ahead, but my Christian brethren must stand for the Word, and in doing so, we will not vote for such abominations.
Bitter Sweet: So you don't vote at all since you don't get involved in civilian affairs? Isn't it such a freedom to not be a part of this world, instead we are citizens of the universe with God! Doesn't get any freer than this!
DigitalAttorney: What it means is what I said. If you want to vote for homosexuals marrying go ahead, but my Christian brethren must stand for the Word, and in doing so, we will not vote for such abominations. Our Commander is the Lord and it is His word which governs our ideology.
TomMoney: i would vote with what i believe, that in this country, the government, nor the people have the right to enforce their religion on others.
DigitalAttorney: Everyones vote reflects their belief. You have as much right to impose your belief on the Christian that votes against homosexual marraige as they have to impose their view on your belief. That's a democracy. So vote how you will. God will judge you in the end.
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:04:55
DigitalAttorney: Everyones vote reflects their belief. You have as much right to impose your belief on the Christian that votes against homosexual marraige as they have to impose their view on your belief. That's a democracy. So vote how you will. God will judge you in the end.
My thoughts exactly. We are all responsible for what we do and we will all stand before God one day and give an account for what we have done.
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong?
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong?
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)?
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal?
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal?
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue?
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong? Yes
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question) Yes it is physically unhealthy and leads to physical problems (I dont want to go into detail about this) It is unnatural. It was also deemed a mental disorder in the DSM IV until liberals took it out.
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong? Yes
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)? Because they are following and worshipping a false god and believe in killing christians and Jews.
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal? Do I think it should be made into a crime that you get prosecuted and jailed for? No. Would I vote for them to get 'married'? No.
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal? Yes
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue? No
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong?
Yes.
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)
Yes, one being that it can be a demonic spirit that a person needs deliverance of.
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong?
Yes, as one stands condemned without Christ.
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)?
No. Islam is an idol-worshiping religion. It rejects salvation in Christ.
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal?
Yes, as it is spiritually illegal already.
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal?
Yes, as there is no point to it.
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue?
I see there is an agenda of sorts, but what else is new?
: Sinead Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:12:00
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong? Yes
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question) Yes it is physically unhealthy and leads to physical problems (I dont want to go into detail about this) It is unnatural. It was also deemed a mental disorder in the DSM IV until liberals took it out.
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong? Yes
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)? Because they are following and worshipping a false god and believe in killing christians and Jews.
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal? Do I think it should be made into a crime that you get prosecuted and jailed for? No. Would I vote for them to get 'married'? No.
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal? Yes
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue? No
Oh wow, okay, i'm beginning to think this a a lost cause, but i'll keep going.
Regarding your answer to:
Question Two: "Yes it is physically unhealthy and leads to physical problems (I dont want to go into detail about this) It is unnatural. It was also deemed a mental disorder in the DSM IV until liberals took it out."
My response: Just because something leads to physical problems doesn't mean its wrong (work, sports, doing mission work in risky countries). Only the bible says its unnatural, so yeah.... Annnnnddd, your saying that because the DSM says something, it means its true, until it no longer supports what you believe, and then its wrong?
Question Four: "Because they are following and worshipping a false god and believe in killing christians and Jews."
My Response: This made my cry, as in literally made me cry. Saying that Muslims believe in killing Christians and Jews is like saying that because the West Burro Baptist church goes around screaming "GOD HATES FAGS" (And i honestly do pray to god that you don't believe that) that all Christians are like that.
Question Five: "Do I think it should be made into a crime that you get prosecuted and jailed for? No."
My Response: Why not, the bible says its wrong?
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong?
Yes.
Correct
Quote
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)
Yes, one being that it can be a demonic spirit that a person needs deliverance of.
This is biblical
Quote
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong?
Yes, as one stands condemned without Christ.
Correct
Quote
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)?
No. Islam is an idol-worshiping religion. It rejects salvation in Christ.
Correct
Quote
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal?
Yes, as it is spiritually illegal already.
Ahhh, so you think that being a Muslim should be illegal? As, like you said before, that is also spiritually illegal
Quote
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal?
Yes, as there is no point to it.
Quote
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue?
I see there is an agenda of sorts, but what else is new?
I'm sorry is i'm miss reading this, but are you implying that i'm gay?
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:33:22
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong?
Yes.
Correct
Quote
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)
Yes, one being that it can be a demonic spirit that a person needs deliverance of.
This is biblical
Quote
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong?
Yes, as one stands condemned without Christ.
Correct
Quote
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)?
No. Islam is an idol-worshiping religion. It rejects salvation in Christ.
Correct
Quote
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal?
Yes, as it is spiritually illegal already.
Ahhh, so you think that being a Muslim should be illegal? As, like you said before, that is also spiritually illegal
Quote
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal?
Yes, as there is no point to it.
Quote
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue?
I see there is an agenda of sorts, but what else is new?
I'm sorry is i'm miss reading this, but are you implying that i'm gay?
You appear to be working for the gay agenda, if not the Muslim one.
The Muslim ideology is ungodly, but it doesn't have to be legislated illegal. Homosexuality doesn't have to be illegal, either, but homosexual marriage does--seems I misread the question.
You cannot legislate righteousness.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:27:48
: Sinead Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:12:00
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong? Yes
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question) Yes it is physically unhealthy and leads to physical problems (I dont want to go into detail about this) It is unnatural. It was also deemed a mental disorder in the DSM IV until liberals took it out.
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong? Yes
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)? Because they are following and worshipping a false god and believe in killing christians and Jews.
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal? Do I think it should be made into a crime that you get prosecuted and jailed for? No. Would I vote for them to get 'married'? No.
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal? Yes
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue? No
Oh wow, okay, i'm beginning to think this a a lost cause, but i'll keep going.
Regarding your answer to:
Question Two: "Yes it is physically unhealthy and leads to physical problems (I dont want to go into detail about this) It is unnatural. It was also deemed a mental disorder in the DSM IV until liberals took it out."
My response: Just because something leads to physical problems doesn't mean its wrong (work, sports, doing mission work in risky countries). Only the bible says its unnatural, so yeah.... Annnnnddd, your saying that because the DSM says something, it means its true, until it no longer supports what you believe, and then its wrong?
Yes because the gas goes into the gas tank not the exhaust. Sorry but its true. Going to work is a normal thing to do, so are sports. Homosexuality is not.
Question Four: "Because they are following and worshipping a false god and believe in killing christians and Jews."
My Response: This made my cry, as in literally made me cry. Saying that Muslims believe in killing Christians and Jews is like saying that because the West Burro Baptist church goes around screaming "GOD HATES FAGS" (And i honestly do pray to god that you don't believe that) that all Christians are like that.
Well they do - I read it in their Quran, that's how I know.
Question Five: "Do I think it should be made into a crime that you get prosecuted and jailed for? No."
My Response: Why not, the bible says its wrong?
Yes but the world is run by satan and it wont be illegal until Jesus returns. Do I wish it was illegal? Yes. In a perfect world it would be but as i stated before we are in a fallen world
"You appear to be working for the gay agenda, if not the Muslim one."
Okay, well i can tell you that i'm not working towards the "Muslim or gay agenda" or what ever that is. This is really a logical flaw I've found with the thinking that gay marriage should be illegal, and my love of a good debate.
"The Muslim ideology is ungodly, but it doesn't have to be legislated illegal. Homosexuality doesn't have to be illegal, either, but homosexual marriage does--seems I misread the question.
You cannot legislate righteousness."
I'm sorry could you please rephrase this, i don't understand
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
TomMoney: Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible
DigitalAttorney: If you're a Christian, Tom, there's no other reason needed.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:45:59
"You appear to be working for the gay agenda, if not the Muslim one."
Okay, well i can tell you that i'm not working towards the "Muslim or gay agenda" or what ever that is. This is really a logical flaw I've found with the thinking that gay marriage should be illegal, and my love of a good debate.
"The Muslim ideology is ungodly, but it doesn't have to be legislated illegal. Homosexuality doesn't have to be illegal, either, but homosexual marriage does--seems I misread the question.
You cannot legislate righteousness."
I'm sorry could you please rephrase this, i don't understand
Some debates are not worthy of Christ.
To Sinead: I'm sorry Sinead, but i'm going to have to stop arguing with you right there, your a good christias and you've given me some really lovley advice on my relationship issue, but i'm doing this ::frustrated:: ::doh:: ::frustrated:: ::doh:: when normaly in a good debate i like to be doing this ::pondering:: ::smile:: ::pondering:: ::smile:: ::pondering::. I will however say this one last thing, if you take some verses out of our bible, we can sound like were horrible to (ie, those who curse their parents should be put to death)
Some debates are not worthy of Christ.
::frustrated::
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 07:00:18
: DigitalAttorney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:47:55
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
TomMoney: Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible
DigitalAttorney: If you're a Christian, Tom, there's no other reason needed.
TomMoney: if you take some verses out of our bible, we can sound like were horrible to (ie, those who curse their parents should be put to death)
DigitalAttorney: Although it was only God's chosen people that were given the ordinance of the law to carry out (death penalties, etc.), you need to learn how the foundations of such laws are invaluable, and how the abandonment of such foundational values as "don't curse your parents", have led to lawlessness and leading many to destruction.
For any who can hear, let them hear.
As Christians, we're not under the first covenants ordinances attached to the laws commanded by God for Moses to give to Israel because the coming of the new covenant meant the: "(Colossians 2:14) blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;"
We must notice something though. Even though the ordinances attached to those laws are not included in the new covenant, the law itself, is holy: "(Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good."
AN EXAMPLE OF GOD'S UNCHANGING HOLINESS:
OLD TESTAMENT LAW: The law says: "(Leviticus 20:13) And a man who lies with a male as one lies with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing, dying they shall die; their blood shall be on them." The ordinance of the law says: "dying they shall die; their blood shall be on them."
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT: The new covenant says: "(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.""
In other words, homosexuality will always be an abomination to God, but whereas Moses was instructed to put to death anyone in Israel that practiced it, we as Christians, have no ordinance under our new covenant which directs us in killing such an individual. Such persons simply do as they will, and will not inherit the kingdom of God. That is the "blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us", and that is the grace of God, under the New Covenant.
Therefore, the law today may be used to point out what sin is. "(Romans 7:7) What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."" The law tells us what sin is and pursues it into our hearts, and discovers and reproves the inwards of each man and woman.
Through an understanding of the law, we as Christians, come to a knowledge of the forms of holiness required of us to stand in favorable standing before the Lord; because without holiness no one will see the Lord. [Hebrews 12:14].
Remember, not only has the Son of God, Jesus Christ, told us to "(Matthew 7:13) Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.", but he has also forewarned us that: "(Matthew 7:21-23) "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many works of power? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; "depart from Me, those working lawlessness.""
Therefore, "the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good." [Ro 7:12]
When I voted that marriage should be defined as one man and one woman and that I wanted it kept that way, it did not mean I thought homosexual people should be jailed. (I don't' understand why these topics always have to JUMP to absolutes) I voted the way I did to say that I thought they should not be married legally, or have the benefits of marriage...does that mean if they chose to go through with a ceremony, they should be jailed? No...just that the ceremony, vows, etc will not be recognized as a legal union.
It doesn't matter if people give them the "right" or not though (which I think will eventually happen :( ), God will not recognize a homosexual union with His blessing.
: TomMoney Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 01:48:45
The other day I was arguing with a cousin on the subject of gay marriage and whether or not it should be LEGAL, and the following set of logical steps were brought up, and to be honest i couldn't think of any real repute, was wondering what you guys think.
Premise: Gay marriage should be illegal because the bible says it is wrong (I don't really believe there are any other valid reasons that I've seen)
Observation: The bible says that being in a religion other than Christianity (i.e. being a Muslim) is wrong (with arguably one or two exceptions).
Conclusion: Being a Muslim should be illegal, along with swearing, divorce, sex before marriage, lying, coveting and disrespecting your parents (ect).
Obviously (I think) the state don't have the right to make any of these things illegal.
Thoughts?
According to your wisdom, the government does not have the right to declare any sin illegal.
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong?
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong?
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)?
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal?
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal?
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue?
You can not dictate how I answer your questions.
1. Yes, the bible does say homosexuality is a sin.
2. The bible is all we need to determine if something is a sin.
3. The bible says not being a Christian will get you a one way ticket to hell or the lake of fire.
4. The bible is all we need to determine if being a Muslin is a sin.
5. I believe homosexuality should not be approved by the government, neither should fornication or adultery.
6. Yes, gay marriage should be illegal.
Do I see where you are coming from on this issue?
Maybe, but do tell.
OP- The things a government approves or does not approves affects its blessing or cursing from God.
If our government approves of sinful gay marriages the it is endanger of judgement from God.
People say "God bless America" and believe that it is possible for God to bless, but when we speak of God cursing something, many people reject that idea.
Our government should not approve of any sinful act. Abortion, homosexualiy, fornication, adultery, murder etc.
Everyone of course realzies that Gay Marriage is an oxymoron right?
: LightHammer Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 18:24:28
Everyone of course realzies that Gay Marriage is an oxymoron right?
(Luke 21:15) for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.
mar·riage Noun /ˈmarij/ The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
: DigitalAttorney Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 18:35:17
: LightHammer Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 18:24:28
Everyone of course realzies that Gay Marriage is an oxymoron right?
(Luke 21:15) for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.
mar·riage Noun /ˈmarij/ The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
So we agree. Well I'll be.
: cs80918 Fri Jan 13, 2012 - 15:57:59
: TomMoney Thu Jan 12, 2012 - 06:07:39
Okay then, but you still not answering my question. I'm going to ask six questions, and please, i ask, ney BEG!, of you to just answer them with either yes or no (or maybe, if your feeling wild) and not side step around this with interpretations of bible verses or proclamations of the evils of homosexuality, i beg of you, just yes or no.
1. Does the bible say homosexuality is wrong?
2. Is there any other reason as to why homosexuality is wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)
3. Does the bible say that not being a christian (ei, being a Muslim) is wrong?
4. Is there any other reason as to why being a Muslim wrong other than those discussed in the bible (you may elaborate on the reasons is you answer yes to the question)?
5. Do you think that homosexuality should be illegal?
6. Do you think that gay marriage should be illegal?
Do you see where i'm coming from on this issue?
You can not dictate how I answer your questions.
1. Yes, the bible does say homosexuality is a sin.
2. The bible is all we need to determine if something is a sin.
3. The bible says not being a Christian will get you a one way ticket to hell or the lake of fire.
4. The bible is all we need to determine if being a Muslin is a sin.
5. I believe homosexuality should not be approved by the government, neither should fornication or adultery.
6. Yes, gay marriage should be illegal.
Do I see where you are coming from on this issue?
Maybe, but do tell.
Good answers cs.
What a lively thread. I would like to include my two cents to the original post about the discussion to the question of gay marriage.
My first thought deals with the original conclusion in the argument that all things deemed wrong/sin in the bible should be illegal. I would disagree. (as an aside...in the example listed (being Muslim, swearing, divorce, sex before marriage, etc..) several of those are illegal (i.e, obscenity laws, perjury, age of consent laws, cooling off periods for divorce, etc.)
I disagree because the morality that Jesus promotes is to come from within a person. How would you legislate "lust in your heart"? Or, pride, self-righteousness, or hate? The state can make actions illegal, but attitudes of the heart are the root cause. A man embezzles because he covets.
This isn't to say that legislators don't attempt to legislate morality through laws, just that laws in themselves won't perfect a people.
My second thought deals with the premise that marriage should be illegal solely because the Bible says it is wrong, and that idea seems to be the major point of contention in this thread. Are there extra-biblical reasons for marriage to be limited to members of the opposite sex? To many Christians the response is "why would you need anything more?" To many secularists, the response is "no." I believe that the state does have an interest in marriage.
First, as I assume has been pointed out, homosexuals can get married...it just has to be to someone of the opposite sex. This is of importance, because in terms of who can get married, states already have prohibitions on who can't marry (i.e, siblings, parents/children, polygamy, etc.). [Another aside, in Utah polygamists are now challenging marriage laws using same arguments used to promote same sex marriages]
I have more ideas, but got to get going.