??? ;)
I'm a little bit puzzled.
Maybe you could vote - and post? If you have an opinion, I mean, re: this particular section of the GCM Forums?
leave it as it is. trust the moderator.
dj
If the discussion is inappropriate to even one of us, shouldn't it be deleted? Is the discussion worth more than relationships here? Is that what the Bible teaches?
I think, however unintentional, such discussion can lead to sin. A type of talk sex, which is sin (when done outside marriage). However, fun it seems to be. Satan always disguises sin as fun or harmless.
Remember when someone posing as "Satan" used to post? It was somewhat amusing but just didn't fit with a Christian board.
Everyone loves your wit, Janine. You are creative enough to channel it some other way. I pray that I haven't offended you.
Your sister, Shorty
P.S. I question the wisdom of a secret or private sex talk forum being endorsed by this board. Lee, please think this through and pray about this.
I guess we can't even discuss the Song of Songs on this board in any facet. Its much too sexual. At least that is what I get from most.
Kids are told mostly that sex is bad. They don't hear positive things about sex, they don't get the whole picture. Then when some of them disregard their parents warnings, they tell their friends that their parents lied because sex was fun.
Kids need to hear the whole story. Not just that sex can give you diseases and cause pregnancy.
I do believe it is vital that Christians be able to ask these questions however, I have some concerns.
1. Without age verification present, I believe it is unwise to have a frank discussion of sex in an area that can be accessed by minors.
2. A number of Christians (and others) use Internet filtering software that flags domains based on textual clues to deny access. Open discussions that trigger that software will deny access to the site for those people. At least one filtering set-up that is marketed HEAVILY to Christians through Christian radio and publications touts the fact that it has no over-ride function to allow access to a denied site.
I guess the main "red flag" for me is that the deleted topic (and actually a few of the ones describing things to spice up your sex life) caused me embarrassment, which is just an uncomfortable thing to experience on a Christian message board. Maybe that is just my lack of "openness" or maybe it is just "my problem", I don't know. It just seems weird to be talking about various sexual preferences in a Christian group of mixed men and women.
I usually like to gauge what I discuss by asking myself the question "Would I be uncomfortable talking about this with brothers and sisters in my "care group" at church (since that is the closest thing to a forum type atmosphere I can think of)?" If I would be uncomfortable doing that, then something is wrong (in my opinion) with engaging in that discussion. The GCM forum is kind of a virtual "care group", and the recently deleted discussion on oral sex is a topic I would be very uncomfortable talking about even in the ladies group, much less a care group with both sexes present.
If some aspect of sexuality is truly a problem between a couple, then a message forum probably will not help. The couple or even the individual should perhaps seek personal counseling from a marriage and family counselor or expert in dealing with those issues. I agree with Shorty that discussing such things in a forum where we do not know the backgrounds of all the posters (or lurkers) can lead to problems. I also question the idea of a private forum as I think it sends a wrong message...like we are hiding something.
I do not think sexuality is an embarrassing issue when discussed privately. I am not from the Victorian era. I was even a hippie in the late 60s and early 70s for Pete's sake! I just think that GCM should stick with topics that address what the "About GCM" statement says on the first page of this website, that is, "...GCM is a daily publication dedicated to stimulating personal and public thought, prayer, and discussion about living the Christian life." I just do not see such things as discussions regarding our sexual preferences as falling in that category. Just my opinion, of course.
Em
I have to concur with Emily.
Some topics, while not in any sense shameful or "dirty", are intimate and need to remain that way.
In our highly sexualized society, I think one of the ways Christians can stand out is by the respect we show for this gift.
And that doesn't mean we can't discuss the Song of Songs.
I think it a healthy approach to discuss sexual issues in marriage - not a how-to manual. But sex is a wonderful and extraordinary gift of God.
Some of us might use the help of healthy attitudes and encouragements. Some of us have misunderstandings and could us some loving help. But, again, not a how-to or whoo-hoo kind of exchange.
Furthermore, this could also be a place where issues of sexual addiction and other dangers to marriage and marital relationships could be discussed. There is an epidemic facing the Christian community arising out of the dysfunction of co-dependency and addictive behaviors. If these can't be discussed here, where then?
Steve
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I think it a healthy approach to discuss sexual issues in marriage - not a how-to manual. But sex is a wonderful and extraordinary gift of God.
Some of us might use the help of healthy attitudes and encouragements. Some of us have misunderstandings and could us some loving help. But, again, not a how-to or whoo-hoo kind of exchange.
Furthermore, this could also be a place where issues of sexual addiction and other dangers to marriage and marital relationships could be discussed. There is an epidemic facing the Christian community arising out of the dysfunction of co-dependency and addictive behaviors. If these can't be discussed here, where then?
Steve[/quote]
Steve,
Just one other thought before I leave this topic and head off for something else. I agree with you in that there are some things pertaining to sexuality that need to be discussed...such as sexual addictions and ways a person can be freed from that. Many Christians have been caught up in pornography, and it is not an isolated incident here and there. It is a very real problem for both men and women.
We are bombarded with sexual images and temptations on every side from television, internet, music, videos, movies, the mall, etc. Just this week I was looking for a certain diet website, and instead a graphic porn website came up because I had accidentally left out a word when doing the search. I quickly clicked off, but the images were left in my mind. Somehow sexual and violent images seem to ingrain themselves in one's mind quicker than anything else. I honestly believe that these things are demonic and attach themselves to us spiritually and mentally in the sometimes few seconds it takes to view a picture. Anyway, my point is that things like this should be discussed among Christians and brothers and sisters who can help us.
On the other hand, there is a difference in discussing and getting help from other Christians with these kind of problems and discussing sexual perferences and personal details that should only be between husband and wife. I think such posts can possibly lead to impure thoughts regardless of how innocent they may be. I know I must sound like the "little old lady with her hair in a bun shaking her stick at those rowdy neighborhood kids". I don't mean to make this a judgmental thing...I know all the posts have had the best intentions. It is just a personal observation on my part, and of course, I may be wrong.
Em
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]If the discussion is inappropriate to even one of us, shouldn't it be deleted? Is the discussion worth more than relationships here? Is that what the Bible teaches?[/quote]
I would imagine a frank discussion of sex to be much less destructive, to adults and children alike, than many of the discussions on the 'politics' board. Of course, that's a whole different discussion.
I would also think that the same two changes that could save the politics section could also allow a 'marriage, love & sexuality' section to work:
1) Active moderation by moderators who understand and take seriously their responsibilities.
2) Grownup behavior by the rest of us.
On the otherhand, the ugliness of some of the personal attacks makes me think that only a crazy person would actually engage in an open or honest discussion of the topic.
As to the problem of minors finding out too much info, please! The average twelve-year-old could find out much more from mainstream internet sources (news magazines like Time, CNN, network news bulletin boards), prime time television (Will & Grace, Friends, According to Jim, any of the reality shows, - The Learning Channel had a special on the Inter-gendered last month!), paperback novels, the kid that sits behind him on the bus, the tabliod magazine covers at the supermarket, the preacher's kid, big brother, kids talking in the mall, ANYWHERE!
I don't understand why Christians gave God's beautiful gift of sexual intimacy over to the skeeze-mongers anyway.
Yes, those discussions can become prurient, but they don't have to. Perhaps the forum would need some special guidelines to prevent that?
Personally, I think a forum like Beliefnet does a reasonable job of presenting a forum for grown up discussion of any kind of spiritual matter. How do they do it? (quality moderation is my guess).
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (JerryBrooke @ Dec. 29 2003,09:17)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I guess we can't even discuss the Song of Songs on this board in any facet. Its much too sexual. At least that is what I get from most.
Kids are told mostly that sex is bad. They don't hear positive things about sex, they don't get the whole picture. Then when some of them disregard their parents warnings, they tell their friends that their parents lied because sex was fun.
Kids need to hear the whole story. Not just that sex can give you diseases and cause pregnancy.[/quote]
Call me old fashioned but my kids won't be hearing about sex from strangers on the internet. The perpretrators would better hope the FBI finds them before the family does. It would be much safer for kids to hear about sex from parents, friends or just about anyone other than a mostly unknown person on the internet. Frankly, I'm shocked. There's a fine line between edification and titilation and I think it's too easily crossed, and at what price? Its bad enough if you only consider adults being involved. But, aren't there laws against adults having sexual conversations with minors on the internet? Why would anyone take a chance (morally or legally) that the person they might be conversing with could be a minor?
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Call me old fashioned but my kids won't be hearing about sex from strangers on the internet. The perpretrators would better hope the FBI finds them before the family does. It would be much safer for kids to hear about sex from parents, friends or just about anyone other than a mostly unknown person on the internet. Frankly, I'm shocked. There's a fine line between edification and titilation and I think it's too easily crossed, and at what price? Its bad enough if you only consider adults being involved. But, aren't there laws against adults having sexual conversations with minors on the internet? Why would anyone take a chance (morally or legally) that the person they might be conversing with could be a minor?[/quote]
I don't know where you are getting this.
Anyway, I wasn't talking about specifics of sex. Just that sometimes we Christians are such prudes that we don't talk to children about sex at all, unless it is to give the impression that it is entirely bad.
And to tell you from someone who is not too far removed from high school, most 4th & 5th graders (in public school) know more about sex than than you really think.
I'm glad that you clarified your position. Hope you understand mine.
Hey Em,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--] I do not think sexuality is an embarrassing issue when discussed privately. I am not from the Victorian era. I was even a hippie in the late 60s and early 70s for Pete's sake! [/quote]
You too--huh! I guess we are giving away our ages by saying that! :doh: Maybe we need a grandma and grandpa smilies for some of us!!!
to everyone,
I haven't voted an opinion because the answers just don't totally reflect my views. I have been in private conversation with Lee and several moderators about this and removing the offending discussion was the solution arrived at. That doesn't mean we cannot discuss the Song of Songs or how to help people who suffer from sex related problems. A support related column is well within the scope here. We probably all suffer from one form of addiction or another that is ongoing. Sex, in all the many bad forms that it can present itself, is just another form of addiction. I know that from personal experience and it is a constant battle for those who suffer with this form of addiction when it is thrown into your face every where you go every day of the week in our society. Addictions never go away-- they are just controlled day by day. Sex in its proper setting can be something that is so beautiful that it is hard to put into words, just like alcohol in moderation can be very beneficial or some of the drugs that are illegally abused everyday have tremendous medicinal benifits, or a game with a little penny wagering between friends can provide alot of stress relief from the intense stress of the age we live in and fellowship between friends.
What if someone in that sex discussion had said something that related to a sex technique that another reader had not heard about before or was not really knowledgable about? If the reader took that technique to Google and did a search to learn what it was about, that reader would end up in endless pornographic sites (and a few that were more "educational" in the sense of formal sex education style). This person now starts going through the sites looking for the answer they want but at the same time they are getting a very unhealthy dose of hard core porn. Descriptions on Google do not always reflect what a site is about because of web site referral, auto page redirecting, pop-ups, desceptive description lines used by the site owner, use of cookies to allow tracking of sites off a person's computer, and to allow the pop-ups to continue, etc. Now, add to that the fact that unless the owner of the computer is very computer savy and knows how to clean all the little dark corners that Windows/IE buries files, cookies, history, email, deleted email, deleted files, active-X files, etc, the chances are fairly good that someone else could come in to use the computer and find these files or inadvertantly get linked into something they didn't want to see. Now what if that person wasn't a Christian but thinks that their Christian friend would never do porn and then finds out otherwise? The search for that knowledge has now exposed two people to the world of porn, even thought the search was innocent to begin with.
As Arkstfan has pointed out,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--] A number of Christians (and others) use Internet filtering software that flags domains based on textual clues to deny access[/quote].
There is also the possibility that this site could be picked up and blocked for sexual content. A good example of this is a search I did a couple of weeks ago which picked up the "New Wineskins" web site. I've forgotten what I searched on now but I use Norton Internet Security 2003 because of its large list of blocked sites that is actively maintained by Norton. When I clicked on the Google search result, I received a "site blocked" message from Norton. That was a surprise! I don't know why it was blocked specifically because my software is set to a large number of reasons, but I suspect it fell under the drugs related blocking and picked up on the name. I had to send an email to Norton about this to try to get them to remove the site from the block list.
The above reasoning is why a strongly urged Lee to remove that discussion and to limit this particular area. I suggested a private moderator's forum (so named) that had strict controlls on who could access it with absolute ID of posters required. Most boards of this type usually have a moderator's posting area that is private. However, to just call it a sex talk forum that is private would cause bad 1st impressions and we all know that 1st impressions are the ones that last the longest and are the hardest to overcome. So, ISTM that if someone wants to have those discussions, it would be better to do it by privately by email/pm.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I would imagine a frank discussion of sex to be much less destructive, to adults and children alike, than many of the discussions on the 'politics' board. Of course, that's a whole different discussion.
[/quote]
Well, not really a different discussion. Just another facitt of this one. That has also been brought up in discussion with Lee while discussing the sex column. Before chatting with Lee about the political area, I was in favor of removing the whole political area. However, I can appreciate his reasoning as to why he has it. He wants to try to keep politics separate from the other areas on the board, especially theology. I agree with that reasoning. It does, however, need stronger moderation in order to stop some of the hurt that political discussion can cause/has caused. It is hard to separate politics and religion any more because of the present laws and how they effect Christians and not other religons. That, in itself, for some of our members who are more political in nature (Lee being one of them IMO :0 ) seems to almost require a place to vent and discuss what's going on around them. One thing that I would like to point out to everyone is that we are picking up more and more international members who do not understand our political processes, thoughts, etc, so that must be taken into consideration when posting there (or anywhere else for that matter).
These are my thoughts. While I was typing this, I got in trouble for not waking my wife up to go to work. I'm on vacation today (last day off this year!). It seems that when the alarm clock went off at 03:45, I got up and came downstairs to make my coffee and enjoy my morning computer time. She went back to sleep. Since I'm not normally awake when she gets up (I get home around 0001 hrs normally and get in bed about 0030), it didn't occur to me that I needed to wake her up this morning because she went back to sleep! :doh: :help:
My tongue-in-cheek poll has gotten for me the sort of response I wanted with the question of oral sex & the Christian in the first place: some discussion! Something more than stiff shocked "let's not discuss it" anyway.
******************************************************************************************
**
As I see the tide rolling so far, these are some concerns:
#1 We ought not to have inappropriate content here on these boards. If it's inappropriate/hurtful to any member we ought to consider chucking it.
#2 Use of restricted forums for sensitive topics is worrisome because it looks secretive? Because folks on it might talk about sex or other taboo topics?
#3 We need to be able to discuss a well-rounded Christian view of sex, neither ignoring it nor dwelling on the negative.
#4 Concerns about a need for age verification if we're going to talk frankly about stuff but also concerns about how this stuff might trigger blocks & deny people this site.
#5 Embarassment
#6 Discussion on Living the Christian Life does not include sexual preferences, nor discussion of practices, apparently.
#7 We need a male-only and a female-only private forum, please Lee.
#8 We can certainly discuss the Song of Songs - but anything sexual in it needs to be respected and treated as intimate and I guess not discussed?
#9 Good to discuss sex addictions, sexual issues w/in marriage, as long as it doesn't get "whoo-hoo".
#10 Somehow, the idea of help and fellowship and Christian support re: sexual sin, addictions, marriage bed worries, whatever, is a good idea- but only if said discussions can be accomplished without anyone getting an impure thought from it.
#11 Minors savvy enough to get to this forum already know pretty much anything we'd discuss here - if anything, our discussions would be accurate, lol, compared to some of the kids' sources - but the only way we could do it successfully would be to come up with someone capable of quality moderating.
12# Moderators sometimes discuss things not openly with the general population of members & visitors, but privately. Secretly?
13# We need to feel responsible if someone reads something in our discussions here, and goes a-Googling, and runs through connection after connection, and accidentally ends up on a porn site. Or if he sees on our home computer that we did the same.
.
.
.
So... correct me if I misunderstood anything.
As the thread has been removed, my personal action of withdrawing from the role of Moderater and Participant in general here at GCM is not common knowledge.
But none the less I have received considerable communication from many, including Lee, asking me to reconsider. From the love I feel for you all, my brothers and sisters in Christ and for the investment of my time and love in this board I will do so. But as part of my reconsideration I believe we need to clear up a number of things here.
WITNESS[/u]
Basically two issues appear to exist, but for myself they are simply one. That is our personal witness and the witness of this board. Before all other considerations, we each hold a responsibility to our Lord to evangelize and spread His Word to all the nations. The greater majority of us are actively engaged in doing exactly that. There is every bit the missionary effort for Patrick and Bonnie going about their lives in frozen Michigan saving Eskimos and Penguins as there is for Sandi and I in tropical Venezuela.
And as missionaries, we are observed by the unconverted. Our actions are held up to review, fair or not.
As well we are also a guiding beacon to those of our brothers mired still in legalism. And as many of us know, there we are certainly held up to painstaking and painful review.
So then what is our witness with our actions here? I confess, I am very ashamed of my sharp tongue in Politics. My witness there is something I beg forgiveness for. It is certainly nothing I feel to be in the least Christlike. I left Politics and even entered into a pact to stay away. And then this flippant thread on a subject that requires considerable prudence and delicacy.
What of our witness? Can you not hear it now, "Oh yes those grace movement people are over there slaughtering each other over politics, calling each other ugly names and talking about oral sex on an open forum!"?
MODERATION
The subject of MODERATION. I have as I said withdrawn from MODERATION here and with cause. Lee, you have not published many things, but I for one will explain something about the role of MODERATOR here. I was in the Theology Forum with my much wiser and beloved brother Ark. We weathered the onslaught of EdPobre together and I will say a wiser companion would be hard to find. As well we weathered the pain and agony of BH in all his various permutations.
But I also, as have other Moderators, entered into other forums when I was online and tried to keep an even keel where I could. Perhaps not as wisely as I would like, but tried none the less. I was recipiernt to the pm's reporting posts and tried to respond.
So why did I not as a MODERATOR go into POLITICS and try to maintain peace there? Well originally I did, the first act I ever took as a Moderator was to lock down a thread where Lee Wilson and Kari had fallen into Ad Hominen bitter chin wags. And just think how you feel as a Moderator locking down the Administrator!
Ach but now? Well Lee decided without consultation of his moderation staff that I am aware of to restrict Moderator powers. To my knowledge, and this is confirmed by other moderators, but not all, Moderation powers only exist in the Forum where your name is listed. In the evolution as well I lost ISP trace capabilities which were a long time in being restored and then only in Theology.
The job of moderation is something I did not seek, but when I was asked and accepted the role, I swore to God that I would endeavour to do so to the best of my ability. Hands tied with an Administrator who is a frequent offender. I simply cannot.
As to my opinion that Lee Wilson is frequent offender, I can only call to mind the tail docking thread where Lee arrived with a fly by and proceeded to berate me thinking I was speaking of abortion.
Lee has advised me by pm that he considers mine to be an overreaction. I respond to that publicly here. Lee I am indeed a "proponent of the idea that everyone sees things from a different angle." And it certainly is "illogical and arrogant to think that oneself only knows the exact truth".
But Lee I also am a proponent that there are limits to our actions and our words if we are to maintain the sort of witness which serves our Lord. When I see where one of my actions is damaging to that witness, such as my participation and moderation of a board that allows questionable activities to occur, then I absent myself from that activity.
I would Lee, love to stay here. I am very torn to leave. But Lee, there are other boards, Freedom's Ring is where I came from and I am very comfortable in returning there where the grace of our Lord is still celebrated and I am comfortable with the witness of the board.
Here Lee? You need to make some serious decisions on exactly what your purpose and intent with GCM is. Because what I see here now is daily slipping further and further from the joy of our Lord's grace.
God Bless you Lee, you will be in my prayers as you struggle with that decision. If I can be of any counsel to you, I will. But Lee Wilson, this is your decision lad.
going along with a little of what Booty said, about the board slipping, I think the politics forum should be removed. It is killing this board. The participants (including me) have at times treated each other horribly.
If anything is killing the board, It is not sex discussions, or BH, or Edpobre, it is the politics section.
Hi Janine,
You said:
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]
As I see the tide rolling so far, these are some concerns:
#1 We ought not to have inappropriate content here on these boards. If it's inappropriate/hurtful to any member we ought to consider chucking it.
#2 Use of restricted forums for sensitive topics is worrisome because it looks secretive? Because folks on it might talk about sex or other taboo topics?
#3 We need to be able to discuss a well-rounded Christian view of sex, neither ignoring it nor dwelling on the negative.
#4 Concerns about a need for age verification if we're going to talk frankly about stuff but also concerns about how this stuff might trigger blocks & deny people this site.
#5 Embarassment
#6 Discussion on Living the Christian Life does not include sexual preferences, nor discussion of practices, apparently.
#7 We need a male-only and a female-only private forum, please Lee.
#8 We can certainly discuss the Song of Songs - but anything sexual in it needs to be respected and treated as intimate and I guess not discussed?
#9 Good to discuss sex addictions, sexual issues w/in marriage, as long as it doesn't get "whoo-hoo".
#10 Somehow, the idea of help and fellowship and Christian support re: sexual sin, addictions, marriage bed worries, whatever, is a good idea- but only if said discussions can be accomplished without anyone getting an impure thought from it.
#11 Minors savvy enough to get to this forum already know pretty much anything we'd discuss here - if anything, our discussions would be accurate, lol, compared to some of the kids' sources - but the only way we could do it successfully would be to come up with someone capable of quality moderating.
12# Moderators sometimes discuss things not openly with the general population of members & visitors, but privately. Secretly?
13# We need to feel responsible if someone reads something in our discussions here, and goes a-Googling, and runs through connection after connection, and accidentally ends up on a porn site. Or if he sees on our home computer that we did the same.
.
.
.
So... correct me if I misunderstood anything.[/quote]
Janine, I think you have misunderstood some things.
Some of the concerns you listed are stated in ways that do not convey what those objecting to the topic are saying. To my knowledge, no one has said it is "taboo" to talk about sex. It is the place and with whom that is in question. Living the Christian life certainly does include sexuality, and no one has said it doesn't. Again, what is being objected to is where, how, and with whom that sexuality is discussed.
The concern about the private forum was not that someone might talk about sex, but rather how it would look to an outsider coming to the board maybe for the first time. If you saw a private forum titled "sexuality", would you not be a little curious what it was about? It would certainly make one question why it was private from the public, especially since as Christians we are to be the light of the world.
The remark someone made about inappropriate content being hurtful to others is a valid one I believe. We are to watch out for our brothers and sisters, and to put their needs above our own. There are probably dozens if not hundreds of lurkers out there. Many of them are single...many regular posters are single. You never know when a comment may cause spiritual wounding to someone. I was thinking about this when the comments about "binding" and handcuffs, etc. were being made. Very innocent comments...unless you had been involved in a bad experience at one time to which those comments evoked painful memories. You just never know what you are dealing with when you have a group of over 600 people. Most of the time we have no control over what others think and can't take responsibility for them, but we can use wisdom in trying to make things less likely to occur.
Anyway, I will not address the other points you made; however, I did detect a somewhat defensive and condescending attitude toward those of us who disagree with the category being used. Please do not take our objections personally; our objections were not directed at you, but at the subject matter.
Em
Other than poking a little fun at Kari for her moderating comment I wan't internalizing anything, Em.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (janine @ Dec. 30 2003,11:43)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Other than poking a little fun at Kari for her moderating comment I wan't internalizing anything, Em.[/quote]
That's good to know, Janine, because I think everyone has been very careful to not make this a personal issue with you.
Em
Em
Thanks for your postings. I agree with your views on what can and should be addressed in terms of sexuality and what should not. Thanks for sharing.
Steve
Emily,
I want to join with Steve in thanking you for your very mature comments about this subject.
To everybody:
Imagine yourself reluctant to engage in some type of activity which your spouse had suggested;
Then imagine that your spouse was discussing the activity with other people on an internet forum.
What would your reaction be? I doubt that mine would be good.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Other than poking a little fun at Kari for her moderating comment I wan't internalizing anything, Em.
[/quote]
I'm not sure why pointing out the need for better moderating is fun-pokable, Janine. As Booty pointed out, the Politics forum has proven repeatedly there is not enough Christian maturity on the board for people to moderate themselves.
After all, you don't have the maturity not to mock another.
Of course, I seem to lack the maturity to let it slide.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (kmv @ Dec. 30 2003,2:29)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Other than poking a little fun at Kari for her moderating comment I wan't internalizing anything, Em.
[/quote]
I'm not sure why pointing out the need for better moderating is fun-pokable, Janine. As Booty pointed out, the Politics forum has proven repeatedly there is not enough Christian maturity on the board for people to moderate themselves.
After all, you don't have the maturity not to mock another.
Of course, I seem to lack the maturity to let it slide.[/quote]
Kari Love not now love, not now. Let this board try and recover. Please love?
Hey, I admitted I lacked the maturity to let it slide, didn't I?
kari
Recover from what?
I seem to have missed something.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Other than poking a little fun at Kari for her moderating comment I wan't internalizing anything, Em.[/quote]
That's good to know, Janine, because I think everyone has been very careful to not make this a personal issue with you.
Em[/quote]
I know, babe, I never feel like I'm getting picked on here.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Other than poking a little fun at Kari for her moderating comment I wan't internalizing anything, Em.
[/quote]
I'm not sure why pointing out the need for better moderating is fun-pokable, Janine. As Booty pointed out, the Politics forum has proven repeatedly there is not enough Christian maturity on the board for people to moderate themselves.
After all, you don't have the maturity not to mock another.
Of course, I seem to lack the maturity to let it slide.[/quote]
See, Booty, this little interchange with me and Kari is fun, to me, it causes me to chuckle, I like it. I don't see where - at this point - the by-play is a problem. As for the rest of it...
I have been out of the loop so long I don't feel I have much right to comment on stuff- but I do know I seem to have missed something, too.
I feel like I have to walk on eggshells here.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I feel like I have to walk on eggshells here.[/quote]
Janine what you see occurring has been a long time growing. Lee has chosen to ignore an unrest for far too long and it is erupting slowly, but surely. You happen to have had the misfortune to be the final catylist and that is sad for you.
This will though play out. Sooner or later Lee will either respond, or a number of us will simply move on. It cannot and will not continue as it is.
I understand that several are disgruntled or saddened or whatever, enough so to leave, by what they see as changes here.
But the main change I see is the change brought about by the voices of the hurt ones fading away - and I miss them.
Then Janine it is time for a change. Or it is time for the board to simply fade away it's own self.
I will give this one further try as I have been asked, but I want to see positive change here. If the Politics Forum must be kept, than responsible unbiased moderation which will nip the Ad Hominen barbs must be implemented. Look at what we have now in Politics
Peculiar Person
Total Posts 22
Post Average 0.05 posts per day
I have never seen Peculiar Person on the boards.
Roman
Total Posts 53
Post Average 0.15 posts per day
None here would ever think to call Roman unbiased, As to his moderation, who can say, he is never here!
Do you have Moderation Powers in Politics Janine? You used to, do you now? So who is Moderating politics Janine? Yet look at the pain being caused by that forum Janine!
How many times have you sent pms trying to keep feelings at bay and keep the peace? How many times have you tried to moderate with your hands tied behind your back?
Moderators must be an active part of the entire board and not excluded from the decision processes.
And from what I see, had the Moderators been polled, Politics would have been dumped some time back.
What I'm confused about is how the politics issues have to do with this section and whether or not to talk about sexual issues. I probably would understand better if I had read the thread that was deleted but I missed that one completely. Hard to make an educated choice in this poll though without knowing what precipitated this issue. As for politics, I just try not to get involved over there. It's rarely constructive. But I don't think that one section ruins the whole board. And that section has been like that as long as I can remember. Not a big, new change as far as I know.
Wendy
Wendy,
Lee had Janine start a thread on a subject here that was extremely marginal as to being appropriate to the entire board. Janine being Janine appraoched it with her lovable irreverency that sadly caused the subject to become quite beyond the pale for a number of us.
Since then we have had a board wide event occurring where we finally are bringing our soiled laundry to the tub, that tub happens to be here. Politics to be sure accounts for quite a bit of the soiled laundry.
Dear Fellow Christians and Posters,
The way this thread has developed and some of the comments that have been made has caused me to FINALLY register and post a comment.
I have been checking this site 3 to 4 times a day after a friend and Brother in Christ turned me on to this board about 5 months ago. When I first visited the site I was blown away! So many discussions with people that felt the same as me (atleast most). After 40 years of "traditional cofC legalism" and finding discussions that hit close to home was a light to me.
I spent the better part of a day reading EVERY post on the board, and beginning to feel like I know each of you as friends and Brothers and Sisters in Christ. You ALL have been an encouragement to me. I followed your comments, "lurking" in the corner as a "guest", worried that my knowledge on subjects was not enough to warrant "registering" and posting a comment.
But I was pulled out of the dark shadow of "guest" by the talk of some of these friends, that I have come to know on this board, by their comments on leaving the board. I must ASK, as a person who finds these discussions and comments en-lightening and have gained knowledge and encourgement from them, to PLEASE not leave.
I was not able to check the board for a few days, because of the holidays, and come back to find people discussing leaving. I was not privy to the thread in this discussion area that Booty, and others have referred. But I read the politics section, and BECAUSE of my STRONG political views, I will continue to not post on the Politics sections, for fear that my comments will offend. (My family refers to me as "4R", "Religous Radical Right-wing Republican"). So I can say, without to much thought, that as a general rule I would side with Lee Wilson (Admin) and others. BUT, because of my lack of writing skills, and tact, I would probably make people mad, So I will avoid that area of discussion.
After reading all the board posts I have come to expect certain people to post certain ways, to comment positively or negatively, with or without humor, it is a matter of personality. I expect these posts and look forward to them, knowing most, if not all, the posters here post with a caring soul, knowledge, wisdom, and most importantly LOVE.
Janine's light hearted, good natured humor. Who reminds me of my wife. Not bashful to mention things and expecting people to, in her trusting way, take the comments as they were written, with love and humor. And yes, Janine, a thread you had a while back about it could only happen to you, where you had to do a garmet repair with yarn at church... I thought THAT had only happened to MY wife. Appartenly it happens more than we know. I truely enjoy ALL your posts!
WileyClarkson's knowledge and encouraging nature that shows in his posts, and his website. I wish my wife and I had visited GranburycofC while we lived in Benbrook (S.W. Fort Worth) for 5 years, and members of Altamesa cofC. We moved back to West Texas to be closer to family and work with the church where I had spent most (actually all) of my youth. I really enjoy your encouraging comments and website Brother Clarkson.
Booty's love of people, knowledge and refelective nature of your posts leaves me wanting to visit Venezuela, to meet you in person. YOUR comments about leaving this board prompted me from the shadows to hopefully encourge YOU.
Son of a Preacher Man's late night comments are enlightning. How does a person think, and write, rational thoughts at 2:00-3:00 in THE MORNING?
Also the biblical knowledge shown by Lee Freeman, James Rondon, boringoldman, and many, many others are a resource I would miss if the well of knowledge was choked dry from people leaving.
As most, if not all, here know, EVERYONE will not agree (even in a small church of 70, here in West Texas, we can't all agree on everything). But that is what is so SPECIAL about this board. People from ALL over the world, all reading the same Word, ALL "fighting the good fight" and "running the race" (2 Tim. 4:7) as best we can, while continuing to work out "your" (read "OUR") salvation (Philippians 2:12).
Let's get whatever changes that need to be made accomplished, to continue this well of information and encouragment to others, even others that "lurk" in the dark corners of the anouymous "guest" handle. Gaining insight and causing frank discussions to further ALL our knowledge about Jesus Christ and BECOMING the Church "family" that we should be.
Thank you ALL for your comments, and membership to, THIS message board.
In pursuit of Him,
Gaylan Douglas
"4R" and former board "guest"
Hi Gaylan.
<*sniffle*>
<*sigh*>
I was, at risk of sounding snotty, going to sincerely ask Wiley or Arkstfan or anyone familiar with Net Nanny style blockers, to compile a list of words/topics most likely to set off one of said blockers.
Then I was going to ask Lee to get this place programmed so that any time a word from the list was typed in and posted, a smilie of some sort would appear. A cute, fluffy, pink bunny smilie maybe.
<grin> Might make a lacy pink screen out of some of my posts, eh guys?
But, for now, I won't.
I'll just sit here and <*sniffle*> enjoy Gaylan's beautiful <*sob*> inaugural post <*snorting honk of blowing nose*>...
Gaylan,
That was pretty eloquent!
Especially for someone who claims to be deficient in writing skills and tact. ;)
Thanks for stepping up and speaking out. I think you made some outstanding points.
Stick around, post more, I'm interested to hear what you have to say.
Peace,
Richard
Gaylan,
My own self as well, truly enjoyed that post.
And no problem with the 4R, some of my best friends are Republicans, SinnFein even....OH and you meant Yank Republican!
By the way, to get here just head south and take a left, (You can at least do that? Nooo? Ach) Take three quick Rights at Colombia.
I pray Gaylan we can sort this out, I do believe we can with the Lord's help, but a lot though will depend on Lee and where he decides to come down on all this.
I am gonna start a poll in the politics section, about whether it should be removed.
Let us see how many want it gone and feel it is detrimental to this board. I will also post it in General Discussion for those who cannot bear to go into politics as it is.
:doh:
friends...what in the world is going on? it's ONLY a discussion site, regardless of what else you want to make of it.
i call a time out...dump the problem areas for 6 months and try it again at that time. if it's still unworkable, anyone with a better idea can come forward.
we've got too many important things to do than bog down at the turn of the year!
dj
Now there's a thought!
Excellent thought David, perhaps you should broadcast it further.
Gaylan,
1st: A great big Texas Howdy from me to you! Another Texan on this board will be GREAT! I'm glad you came out of lurkdom to join us and I hope you will stay active in posting!
Thank you for the nice compliments and especially on my web site! I've taken some personal hits on a particular part of my site in the past and it's good to hear from people who appreciate what I have tried to do on it. I also do the granburycoc.org site which is undergoing some changes right now.
Sure wish you had come to Granbury while you were in Benbrook, but I understand because Altamesa is an excellent church. We have several sets of parents at Granbury whose grown kids are members there. My wife and I have been at Granbury for three years and love it. We moved there just as a slow change started taking place under the direction of the eldership. It continues--slowly--so as to not leave anyone behind but it is changing from the 70's mentality that held so many churches for the last 30 years. And we continue to grow in numbers almost every week.
I am quite confident we will work through the problems that have arisen here on GC Forum. There is too much at stake not to.
BTW, where in West Texas are you exactly? My whole family will be in West Texas at Midland the 1st weekend of April. I'll give you three guesses as to what we will be doing--and if you miss it on the 1st guess, shame on you!! :D Maybe you will be there and we can meet.
David,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]we've got too many important things to do than bog down at the turn of the year!
[/quote]
:amen:
:amen: [!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I am quite confident we will work through the problems that have arisen here on GC Forum. There is too much at stake not to. [/quote] :amen:
Wiley, I am off to pray.
God Bless and hold down the fort.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Dec. 31 2003,02:40)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]:doh:
friends...what in the world is going on? it's ONLY a discussion site, regardless of what else you want to make of it.
i call a time out...dump the problem areas for 6 months and try it again at that time. if it's still unworkable, anyone with a better idea can come forward.[/quote]
I've used that strategy on boards I run along with dumping contentious threads into a forums that only registered users can see (had a lot of problems with people quoting and linking some threads over on other sites to "prove" what bad folks were on my site). Didn't stop them from being seen but you had to take the trouble to register to actually view them.
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]BTW, where in West Texas are you exactly? My whole family will be in West Texas at Midland the 1st weekend of April. I'll give you three guesses as to what we will be doing--and if you miss it on the 1st guess, shame on you!! :D Maybe you will be there and we can meet.[/quote]
Wiley,
Odessa....Lived there from the time I was 6 until we moved to Benbrook for 5 years. Just moved back about 5 months ago. At first I wondered why God sent us to S.W. Fort Worth, but we got involved at Altamesa in "Bible Hour" for the kids on Sunday nights and I helped design stage sets for the VBS musicals for 3 years. Then I understood why. My wife and I were introduced to so many NEW things (Bible Hour, Praise Teams, Musicals, UPLIFTING worship, CLAPPING in assemby *gasp*) all these things encouraged me and my wife.
Being back where I grew up and acting as Worship and Youth Director, we are trying to take some of these ideas used by a BIG church with a BIG church BUDGET, and apply them to small church volunteers and budget. It is a chore, but things are progressing. We should have a youth website up within a month, when I'm finished with it I will post the address, we are excited about the way things are going.
Odessa is just west of Midland. My office is at the air terminal between Midland and Odessa. Out our windows I can see where they are working on the new site for "Rock the Desert", which drew more than 100,000 people (last year) for Contemp. Christian Concert held outdoors over 2+ days.
In Midland...first weekend in April?..you say....I probably need only ONE guess. "Stream in the Desert 2004"....April 2-4. :clap: Yes, I'm planning to attend! and YES, I am excited of the possibility of meeting you then, let me know!
In pursuit of Him,
Gaylan
Gaylan,
First guess is correct--I'm impressed :D :clap: Of course I KNEW you would get it 1st guess : doh: :thumbup:
We've been attending since the 2000 Stream with Lynn Anderson. That is also the year my wife put the legalism of her upbringing behind her--AT STREAM :clap: :clap:
One of the couples in our Connection Group at Granbury moved to Granbury last year from Midland and were members of Golf Course Road before for the years they were in Midland. There could be some changes coming, they think, with the move of Hallal to nashville but it will be a wait and see. Guess you know that the featured speaker this year is Rick Atchley so it ought to be really good.
BTW, my oldest daughter is the Childrens minister at Turnpike in Grand Prairie and Linda and I teach 2nd graders on a rotation. My wife is the 2nd grade teaching coordinator (and I'm just really proud to let her be the boss on that one!!!) She is also one really good teacher. We are on our quarter out (go back in march). One of the girls in our class came up to me Sunday during break between the early service and class and said "Wiley, when are you and Linda going to teach class again?" When I told her march, she kinda of looked down and said "that long?" I think that sweet little 7 year old just burned a wonderfull memory in my mind! Linda has been converting the 2nd grade curriculeum into Power Point based teaching material. The kids are eating it up!!! They love learning Bible lessons on a computer. We are using Sally Fraziers curriculeum and Sally has really been impressed with what we have done.
Granbury has not gone as far--yet--as Altemesa but it will eventually!!! We have leadership connections into Altemesa and Richland Hills so it is only a matter of time :thumbup: however, the POD is take it slow and easy. I have had a real influence on the singing in the early service. i don't lead singing anymore (too many that are better than me!) but I talked one of our songleaders into a trip to Stream last year and boy did he ever change!!!
Maybe that's where everyone on the board needs to get together for some healing and putting things right!
I think we have alot more to talk about, especially in the kids area. My daughter has a Masters Degree from ACU Graduate School of Biblical Theology in (I think) Christian Education --or something like that and she will be with us so maybe you and her may have some things in common to talk about. i will also have her husband and daughter (she made Stream last year at just under three months old!), my wife, and my twin daughters who are also ACU students (seniors several time over :( ) with me. We try to sit on the left hand side of the colliseum on the front row mid way down.
I guess I better cut this off or we may kill this thread with our off topic discussion :frowning:
it's served its purpose anyway Wiley
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]...and my twin daughters who are also ACU students (seniors several time over :( ) with me.......
I guess I better cut this off or we may kill this thread with our off topic discussion[/quote]
Wiley,
Sorry to keep this off topic..but just a little longer...
If you haven't checked my profile yet...or maybe you have....
I have twin daughters ALSO......mine are a "wee tad" younger though...second grade (7 years old).
So you understand the stroller through the store... both dressed the same..not even 1 year old...and the question that we all hear..."Are they twins?".....my wife got SO TIRED of the "Are they twins?" question that one time after a grocery store sacker was taking our groceries out to the car and asked "Are they twins?".. My wife calmly looked at the young man ... and with a straight look said "No, they have different fathers". I still remember the confused look :thinking: on the young man's face as the smoke curled out of his ears as his brain was trying to compute THAT bit of information.
I will state though for this board (incase someone might MISUNDERSTAND)...she was JOKING....they BOTH have the same father. Along with the 11 year old son AND the 4 year old daughter...that only her uncle thinks is "a little angel".:saint:
I look forward to meeting you in person, closer to time maybe we can find out who all from the board will be in Midland..and have visit or somethin'.
Continue the AWESOME work Brother.... You are an encouragement to more than you know.
In pursuit of Him,
Gaylan
Gaylan,
Tell your wife :thumbup: on the reply! Know the feeling well!
Kristie and Kathie are not identical but look close enough to each other, even after 25 years, that they still get asked all the time and are known as the twins. It took me five years to learn to tell them apart about 75% of the time :frowning:
The crowning moment came when the twins were about 2 years old and Shannon was four. They were all in the back seat in three car seats lined up across the back seat and the woman walks and "Are they triplets?" It was a good thing my oldest was asleep as the question would nat have set well with her, even at four years old!
TO EVERYONE READING THIS:
Gaylan,
Tell your wife :thumbup: on the reply! Know the feeling well!
Kristie and Kathie are not identical but look close enough to each other, even after 25 years, that they still get asked all the time and are known as the twins. It took me five years to learn to tell them apart about 75% of the time :frowning:
The crowning moment came when the twins were about 2 years old and Shannon was four. They were all in the back seat in three car seats lined up across the back seat and the woman walks and "Are they triplets?" It was a good thing my oldest was asleep as the question would nat have set well with her, even at four years old!
TO EVERYONE READING THIS:
If you are the parent of twins, speak up. I'll bet we can all tell stories that will not only put others in the floor laughing, but will also scare the wits out of them at the same time when we describe some of the things twins think up to do!
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I'll bet we can all tell stories that will not only put others in the floor laughing...[/quote]
At the time it wasn't funny...BUT...
My wife's doctor (Doctor K.) had NEVER delivered twin's so she got an older doctor to assist her. There I was sitting beside my wife's head....a curtain over her chest (Jan had to have a c-section)...the sleep doctor (happy smell guy) beside me, looking at Jan's vital signs....standing up EVERY OTHER minute to see what's going over the curtain...each time he sits down he states .."You can look over if you want."...YEAH RIGHT...JUST what I want to do!....wish Dad's could still sit in the waiting room and chain-smoke (even when we don't smoke)...I digress..
So Baby "A" comes out..... :clap:
then after 1/2 a minute....Baby "B" comes.... :clap:
THEN...from over the curtain...the "old assisting Doctor" looks down at my wife's belly...I see his eyes over his mask look wide-eyed....then looks straight at me over the curtain.....and says.....
"Son, Doctor K. did tell you there are THREE in here!"
THUD!
I really don't know what happened after that...........
In pursuit of Him,
Gaylan
I think I'll solicit baby tales over in the Family section. Dunno about y'all but I enjoy hearing them.
Thanks all for the input.