Hi GC
I've been gone for a minute doing battle against some Unitarians on another site. Anyway I have a lesson here that I want you all to weigh in on.
I know what the statement of faith is this is why I put it here. I would like it in the theology section but here has to suffice.
If the Moderators can please put it there.
Please weigh in on this and please be polite and christian like.
peace in Jesus
Are their actually three members of the Godhead?
Or,
is their only one God with three personalities?
How many are there, one, two, or three?
Where should we search this out?
Should we ask our pastors and rely on what he says?
If he is a type of pastor that says, "There are this many or that many," without showing you in the Old and the New Testaments find some one else and ask them the question.
This is a description of a preacher, take good heed to a brother like this.
And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. (Ecclesiastes 12:9-10)
If you have an instructor like that you are truly blessed.
Let's jump right into the lesson and find out what the Word of God has to say about this.
We will also take a look at some history and find out where this trinity doctrine came from.
Let's start this lesson in the beginning.
We will go to Genesis chapter one and begin to use some simple arithmetic.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:26)
Note what God says,
Take a look at this verse in Genesis chapter one.
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:25)
In the 26th verse God said that man would be after His likeness not after His kind.
Meaning man would look like Him but, will not be made of the same substance, God is a spirit, man is a soul meaning flesh and blood.
But, people continue to say, "It's only one God, and He was talking to the angels. Well, let's see what an angel looks like, and then decide if man looks like the angels.
Ezekiel chapter one.
And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. (Ezekiel 1:4-7)
What are these four living creatures called? Let's go to Ezekiel chapter 10 and find out.
This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims. Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings. (Ezekiel 10:20-21)
These creatures are cherub angels. Let's reason together sisters and brothers, in Genesis chapter one verse 26, the Lord said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
When was the last time we've seen a man with four faces four wings and calves feet?
We have never seen a man that looks like that.
So, those people that think the Lord was talking to an angel have just been proven wrong by the word of God.
For the simple fact that we cannot find any man upon this earth or anywhere else in the creation that looks like an angel.
This lets us know that God has hands, feet, nose, mouth, eyes etc.
The verse does say He created us in His image correct? So, whom was the Lord talking to if it wasn't the angels?
Was He talking to Himself? Of course not, we will find out who was doing the talking and who was being spoken to.
We will point this out later. Let's return to Genesis.
We will go to Genesis chapter 3 verse 22 and watch how it starts out singular and then plural.
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis 3:22)
Notice the scripture says, "The LORD God said," (singular)
Now note the switch to plural, "the man is become as one of us." "Us" implies more than one.
As we go further in this study we will see exactly how many members make up the Godhead.
Notice the next verse how it switches back to the singular form.
FACT.
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden, to till the ground from
whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:23)
We can't stop here, let's go to Genesis chapter 11, and see the same occurrence. We are not going to concern ourselves with the story line; we are only locating how many members make up the Godhead
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. (Genesis 11:5-6)
Notice it says the Lord came down to see the city. Now watch the change in the next verse from singular to plural
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. (Genesis 11:7)
See the change; "Let us go down." Once again the word "us" implies more than one. Now that we see there's more than one member of the Godhead, let's find out how many are actually in the God family.
We can not use only one verse and say, "see, I told you it was this or that."
We must rightly divide the Word, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.
Now, lets take a look at the second Psalm.
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, (Psalms 2:2)
This is a future event.
Who is the Lord's Anointed?
Is it King David? No.
Let's read a little further in this chapter and see who the Lord's Anointed is.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (Psalms 2:4-6)
I could tell you who this is but we must allow the Bible to speak for itself. Let's read the next verse.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (Psalms 2:7)
Who is the only begotten son?
Jesus.
He became the Son of God at His resurrection;
He was the first born from the dead.
How many do you see?
The LORD, that's one.
Thou art my Son, that's two.
Back up to verse 2 and how many do you see?
The Lord meaning the Father, that's one.
His Anointed meaning the Son Jesus, that's two
We know of 4 name used in the bible
Jehovah
Jah
Melchizedek
Jesus
Who is who?
The bible speaks of a Godhead
Acts 17:29 (KJV)
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Romans 1:20 (KJV)
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2:9 (KJV)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Is the Godhead 3!
Is it one?
Why the ephasis on a word like trinitarians or Unitarian?
The Lord has his word that he want used it is called The GodHead
As I read the bible I always come across two
God the Father
God the Son
Another thing that amazes me is the fact the churches have made
The trinity the backbone of thier belief, not Jesus, not the Father.
The trinity.
My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty. (Psalms 45:1-3)
Who is the mightiest?
Can a man carry the title most mighty?
Let's continue.
And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Psalms 45:4-7)
How many do you see?
Note the 7th verse, "therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
We have two again, (God, thy God.) Whose throne will be established forever?
Let's go to Hebrews chapter one and see how Paul quoted this scripture and also whose throne will be established forever.
The Godhead is the image of the "Us" (Elohim; is distinctly plural, and definitely TWO; no more no less)
And the Godhead is the Doctrine of the Father and the Son.
That's why churchianity (modern Babylon; the mother of all harlots) has lifted up the idol of the Trinity, to hide the face of the Godhead and instead establish their own authority.
Here is the image of God that God created man(kind) in:
Just as Christ came forth from God
Eve came forth from Adam.
That is WHY God is the HEAD of Christ,
and Adam (man) is the head of woman.
That is also WHY a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man in the church - it creates a false image of God (is Christ the Head of God?)
False images of God create confusion, disorder and chaos, and is of the darkness.
Believe it or not, it is the truth.
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Within this verse you see the Son did not start with Mary, He simply came through Mary.
Note what the verse says, "Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."
Now we see who was doing the talking and also who was being spoken to. The Father and the Son are in this joint venture.
Through the Son the world was made.
Let's skip down to the 5th verse.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (Hebrews 1:5)
He never said to an angel, "thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." Let's continue.
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, "And let all the angels of God worship him.
: howard Sun Jul 01, 2012 - 18:04:11
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Within this verse you see the Son did not start with Mary, He simply came through Mary.
Note what the verse says, "Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."
Now we see who was doing the talking and also who was being spoken to. The Father and the Son are in this joint venture.
Through the Son the world was made.
Let's skip down to the 5th verse.
: ScottyB Sun Jul 01, 2012 - 18:02:35
The Godhead is the image of the "Us" (Elohim; is distinctly plural, and definitely TWO; no more no less)
And the Godhead is the Doctrine of the Father and the Son.
That's why churchianity (modern Babylon; the mother of all harlots) has lifted up the idol of the Trinity, to hide the face of the Godhead and instead establish their own authority.
Here is the image of God that God created man(kind) in:
Just as Christ came forth from God
Eve came forth from Adam.
That is WHY God is the HEAD of Christ,
and Adam (man) is the head of woman.
That is also WHY a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man in the church - it creates a false image of God (is Christ the Head of God?)
False images of God create confusion, disorder and chaos, and is of the darkness.
Believe it or not, it is the truth.
I concur
Yet you will have to put the word of God to prove it and mans history to verify your points
The trinity is engrained into the mind set of the people
This is a Roman Catholic doctrine that Martin Luther embraced even though he separated from the RC church.
This is a sensitive subject . This is a topic that if you disagree bad things are wished upon you
Yet this is a subject for mature Christians. The meat eaters and not the milk drinkers.
Thanks for chiming in.
How did you come to the understanding that there is two in te Godhead?
I've been on forums for almost 10 years and you are the first to admit 2
You are the first to call it by its correct name God Head
One of the biggest mysteries to me is how can the Protestants grab hold to a Roman Catholic and Orthodox doctrine.
Wait a minute Scotty
The Lord had written that we prove all things.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
We are instructed to teach
Matthew 28:19-20 (KJV)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
God don't want to destroy any one except Satan an besides we have some great people on Grace centered
I understand what you at saying but we dont want people to be destroyed without hearing a doctrine that is not denominational.
The Lord has blessed you to understand the Godhead
You cant keep it to yourself you have to share it with others.
You have to put the verses to go with it.
Granted people will think you are crazy as they did Jesus.
Let's look at something that Jesus did when encountered the chief sinner
Matthew 4:1,3-7 (KJV)
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. [3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. [4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. [5] Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, [6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. [7] Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Notice Jesus used the word of God to answer Satan
Notice something very important, the Father is calling the Son, God. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever."
I can't understand why some sects have a problem with the Son being God.
If Jesus is the Son of God, what would that make Him?
God!
When a horse has offspring, is it called a dog?
No, a horse.
Some people make things that are so simple difficult. Now, let's go to the book of John and see which one of the Godhead members was doing the talking.
Last week I had a Unitarian tell me that Jesus is not God
He said Jesus is a immortal man.
I'm still trying to understand his theory
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)
The Word was the one that was doing the talking, which is Jesus.
He is the Son of God correct?
In the beginning the Word was known as Yahweh or Jehovah. When the Word came in the flesh He took upon Himself His Fathers name which is Jesus.
There was no Father and Son in the beginning it was only God.
The word God was translated from the Hebrew word Elohim. Elohim is a uni-plural word in Hebrew, meaning one office but more than one participant.
Take another look at the three verses above.
How many members do you see?
Note this part of the verse, "In the beginning was the Word." That's one member. Notice the next part, "and the Word was with God."
Being that the "Word" is Jesus and in this case "God" meaning the Father, how many do you see? (Two) Where is the Holy Ghost? Shouldn't he be in the beginning also?
: howard Sun Jul 01, 2012 - 18:29:01
Wait a minute Scotty
The Lord had written that we prove all things.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Prove it to YOURSELF, even to the level of determining the Perfect will of God.
I HAVE been teaching, and enduring stonings, lynch mobs, evil people of every kind, liars, scoundrels, slanderers, etc... for many decades. I have found very very few who have a willing heart, and fewer still who will endure sound doctrine.
: howard Sun Jul 01, 2012 - 18:22:25
I've been on forums for almost 10 years and you are the first to admit 2
You are the first to call it by its correct name God Head
One of the biggest mysteries to me is how can the Protestants grab hold to a Roman Catholic and Orthodox doctrine.
Since God The Father has given ALL CREATED THINGS to Christ Jesus, and charged Christ with "not losing anything" that He gave to Christ; who then can be lost for eternity?
The answer is in the God Head.
God is the Head of Christ.
Christ is the Head of every man.
Man is the Head of woman.
And just as:
Christ came out of God (and returns to Him as His will is fulfilled),
So too is all mankind made out of and came out his Head which is Christ...
As man and woman together are ONE... see?
So when Christ puts down ALL Authority and everything returns into its Head...
The ONLY Authority shall be God, and He shall be all, and in all.
What God has put together (through the God Head) let no man put asunder.
Get it?
How is it that I know these things?
Simple.
Jesus Christ is my Father, in fact; m "Everlasting Father".
And as He promised; I am His son.
Your brother in Christ,
Let's return to the scripture and see if we can find the alleged third member. Pay close attention to this 1st verse in the 110th Psalm.
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalms 110:1)
How many do you see in the scripture above?
The "Lord
Let's go to the Book of Matthew and find out.
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? Whose son is he?
They say unto him, the son of David. He saith unto them, "How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Colossians.
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (Colossians 3:1)
Who sits at the right hand of God? Christ!
Once again we have two members in the Godhead.
We have a problem here, we can only locate 2 members.
Where is the elusive third member or is there a third God that sits on the left hand of the Father?
We will see in this set of scriptures that there are, in fact, only two members of the Godhead.
Read these scriptures carefully as I know you have done the others, and we will see the Lord Jesus is doing the talking through the mouth of Isaiah.
And of whom hast thou been afraid or feared, that thou hast lied, and hast not remembered me, nor laid it to thy heart? Have not I held my peace even of old, and thou fearest me not? I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee. When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain; And shall say, Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare the way, take up the stumbling block out of the way of my people. (Isaiah 57:11-14)
Note, man cannot make the above statement. Who will judge us by our works? Jesus. If we walk in His word we will inherit the earth. Now, let's clear this trinity myth up.
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. (Isaiah 57:15)
Note what's being said, "I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit."
Notice the scripture says I (Jesus) dwell with Him (The Father) what does "HIM" imply?
Only two sisters and brothers.
Now let's recap what we have learned.
Remember that in Genesis, chapters one, three and eleven the scriptures stated "let us" express indirectly that there is more than one member of the Godhead.
In John, chapter one in verse one, it displays two members only by stating, "The Word was with God and the Word was God."
In the book of Revelation in the nineteenth chapter will establish that the "Word" mentioned in the book of John was in fact Jesus.
From there we went back into the scriptures to the book of Psalm the 45th chapter. The seventh verse in the 45th chapter of Psalm states, "God, thy God" revealing once again only two members of the Godhead.
Once we did that, we returned to the New Testament into the Book of Hebrews, chapter one, and we saw that Paul was quoting the 45th Psalm.
From the Book of Hebrews, we returned to the scripture taking a look at the 110th Psalm. In the 110th Psalm we found 2 members.
The scripture stated, "The Lord said unto my Lord." From there, we went back to the New Testament into the Book of Matthew.
We were shown that Jesus was quoting the 110th Psalm.
Then, we went back into Paul's writings and took a look at the Book of Colossians, chapter three, verse one. In that verse we saw once again two members of the Godhead.
The verse stated that, "Christ sits on the right hand of God." Finally we went into the Book of Isaiah, chapter fifty seven, verse 15, where it states, "I dwell in the high and lofty place with Him." Showing clearly that there are two members only in the Godhead.
Before we continue, let's take a look at the book of John, in chapter seventeen and show that Jesus was in fact God before He came in the flesh.
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:13:43
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:1-5)
Note the fifth verse, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
That's very clear don't you think?
That verse shows Jesus has been around forever.
Now, take a look at John chapter one verse one again, so we can have a clear understanding that Jesus, known as Jehovah or Yahweh before He came in His father's name, is in fact one of the members of the Godhead.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
Now that we have established there are only two members, let see were the roman Christian has thrown a third member into the Godhead.
Let's take a look at some world history and see how the Gentiles made something that is so simple difficult. Pay close attention and you will see that they had no idea how to explain the Godhead.
Here is a quote from the Grolier encyclopedia.
Difficulties soon emerged in formulating and understanding this threefold "economy." Divergent views led early to numerous Trinitarian controversies such as those over subordinationism (the teaching that the Son is subordinate to the Father and the Holy Spirit to both; see Arianism) and modalism (the view that the three modes are transitory; see Monarchianism and Sabellianism).
The Councils of Nicaea (325) and Constantinople (381) outlined the dogma of the Trinity in express rejection of these teachings.
The Nicene, or Niceno-Constantinopolitan, creed has defined through the ages, for both Catholic (Roman and Orthodox) and Reformation (Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican) churches, the basic doctrine of the Trinity. Catholic and Protestant theology has sought in various ways to make the doctrine stated at Nicaea comprehensible. Saint Augustine's lucid analogies of the divine Trinity in our experience of ourselves as memory, understanding, and will, and in our experience of our own existence as characterized by being, truth, and love, have been the point of departure for most subsequent study.
In the religious thought of the Enlightenment (17th and 18th centuries), there was a strong reaction against Trinitarianism as an "orthodox" mystery without basis in either experience or reason this was the view of Unitarianism and deism and of much 19th-century liberal theology. The great figures of 20th-century theology Karl Barth, Paul Tillich, and, most recently, Karl Rahner despite their diversity of outlook, have again found the Trinity a central, in fact an unavoidable, structure for expressing the Christian understanding of God. (End of quote)
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:45:25
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:13:43
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:52:54
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:45:25
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:13:43
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 16:58:16
Let's return to the scripture and see if we can find the alleged third member. Pay close attention to this 1st verse in the 110th Psalm.
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalms 110:1)
How many do you see in the scripture above?
The "Lord
Ezekiel 36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Matthew 12:18
"Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased! I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.
"My Spirit" is God, Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:57:43
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:52:54
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:45:25
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:13:43
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:13:15
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 16:58:16
Let's return to the scripture and see if we can find the alleged third member. Pay close attention to this 1st verse in the 110th Psalm.
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalms 110:1)
How many do you see in the scripture above?
The "Lord
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:48:01
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:57:43
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:52:54
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:45:25
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:13:43
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Yes the HS is
but you did not include something,
The HS does nothing on his own
Could you please provide that verse for me, I did not quote it right and
I'm looking for it now.
What? ??? You want me to provide a verse you misquoted?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Add this to your post and please comment
Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
A body was prepared for the God who became the son
okay...what do you want me to comment on? The body that was prepared was the one Mary gave birth to and named Jesus. ::shrug:: What does that prove to you that the Holy Spirit isn't God?
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:19:19
Ezekiel 36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Matthew 12:18
"Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased! I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.
"My Spirit" is God, Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
When I read those verses this is the spirit that comes to mind
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
And the OT and NT proves it
Look what the Lord put into our heart(mind)
Hebrews 8:8,10 (KJV)
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jesus words are spirit and they are Holy since He is Holy
Are his words which he said is spirit is it God?
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:50:53
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:13:15
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 16:58:16
Let's return to the scripture and see if we can find the alleged third member. Pay close attention to this 1st verse in the 110th Psalm.
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalms 110:1)
How many do you see in the scripture above?
The "Lord
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:48:01
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:57:43
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:52:54
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:45:25
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 18:13:43
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Howard, you are just blowing hot air. The Lord in His word gives Holy Spirit personhood. We don't call Him 'He'---God does. So, either get with the program or remain out of touch with God. It's your choice. I should think that if you knew the Lord, you would want everything He died to give you. But, as you reject His Spirit, you are obviously grieving Him and He cannot get through to you as long as you have this stiff neck about Him. He will continue to wait patiently, but He will not force you. What a sad picture that sends me.
If you are refusing to hear Holy Spirit, who is supposed to be indwelling you, then you aren't going to hear us. So, your arguments are just whistling in the wind.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:03:57
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Yes the HS is
but you did not include something,
The HS does nothing on his own
Could you please provide that verse for me, I did not quote it right and
I'm looking for it now.
What? ??? You want me to provide a verse you misquoted?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Add this to your post and please comment
Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
A body was prepared for the God who became the son
okay...what do you want me to comment on? The body that was prepared was the one Mary gave birth to and named Jesus. ::shrug:: What does that prove to you that the Holy Spirit isn't God?
Who put the body (seed)in Mary?
Is the HS Jesus Father ?
Is God the Father his Father?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:30:47
A angel is our helper also and a angel is a spirit and the angel who did not follow Satan are Holy
Oh, Howard, you are reeeeeally stretching things now! Angels are NOT the Holy Spirit, and they do NOT help us in the same way the Spirit does! The Spirit has a relationship with those He seals and inhabits. Angels not so much! ::frown::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:30:47
Is the angels God? No! But they fit your description of the comforter or HS.
Only if you squint really really hard and stand on your head do they fit. ::juggle::
And, its not MY definition. What I posted of the HS came from the Word. ::cool::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:30:47
Hebrews 1:7,14 (KJV)
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Matthew 25:31 (KJV)
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Angels are holy and angels are spirit
Yet they are not God.
Nope. Angels are not God and angels are not the Holy Spirit. ::shrug::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:36:17
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:03:57
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Yes the HS is
but you did not include something,
The HS does nothing on his own
Could you please provide that verse for me, I did not quote it right and
I'm looking for it now.
What? ??? You want me to provide a verse you misquoted?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Add this to your post and please comment
Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
A body was prepared for the God who became the son
okay...what do you want me to comment on? The body that was prepared was the one Mary gave birth to and named Jesus. ::shrug:: What does that prove to you that the Holy Spirit isn't God?
Who put the body (seed)in Mary?
Is the HS Jesus Father ?
Is God the Father his Father?
THAT'S the POINT, Howard! God is the Father and the Holy Spirit conceived the Christ Child. THEY ARE GOD all THREE!
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Yup. ::nodding:: ::shrug:: Why is this being made SOOO hard? Baffles me. ::juggle::
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:35:43
Howard, you are just blowing hot air. The Lord in His word gives Holy Spirit personhood. We don't call Him 'He'---God does. so, either get with the program or stay out of touch. It's your choice. I should think that if you knew the Lord, you would want everything He died to give you. But as you reject His Spirit, you are obviously grieving Him adn He cannot get through to you as long as you have this stiff neck about Him.
If you are refusing to hear Holy Spirit, who is supposed to be indwelling you. then you aren't going to hear us. So, your arguments are just wind.
If you don't know you don't know. I put the words of God and yet you attack me
Answer the verse
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:41:17
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Yup. ::nodding:: ::shrug:: Why is this being made SOOO hard? Baffles me. ::juggle::
If you think holy spirit is a name then you are baffled
Holy spirit is a title let get this simple fact clear first
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: w
herefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Holy spirit is a title it is not a name.
Father is a title
Son is a title
Jesus is a name
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:39:58
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:36:17
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:03:57
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Yes the HS is
but you did not include something,
The HS does nothing on his own
Could you please provide that verse for me, I did not quote it right and
I'm looking for it now.
What? ??? You want me to provide a verse you misquoted?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:56:23
Add this to your post and please comment
Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
A body was prepared for the God who became the son
okay...what do you want me to comment on? The body that was prepared was the one Mary gave birth to and named Jesus. ::shrug:: What does that prove to you that the Holy Spirit isn't God?
Who put the body (seed)in Mary?
Is the HS Jesus Father ?
Is God the Father his Father?
THAT'S the POINT, Howard! God is the Father and the Holy Spirit conceived the Christ Child. THEY ARE GOD all THREE!
What is te Father name?
What is the HS name?
Jesus said he comes in the Father's name
Who is Jesus Father?
Jesus the Father or the HS?
Which one?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:46:44
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:41:17
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Yup. ::nodding:: ::shrug:: Why is this being made SOOO hard? Baffles me. ::juggle::
If you think holy spirit is a name then you are baffled
Holy spirit is a title let get this simple fact clear first
hair split much?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:49:09
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: w
herefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Holy spirit is a title it is not a name.
Father is a title
Son is a title
Jesus is a name
Just beyond silly now... ::frown::
God is a name
Jesus is a name (because He came to earth and earthlings CALL each other by name ::shrug::)
Holy Spirit is a name.
The names of God in the bible are
Melchizedek
Jah
Jehovah
Jesus
Israel
Which one is the Father?
Which one is the Son?
Which in is the HS?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:58:58
The names of God in the bible are
Melchizedek
Jah
Jehovah
Jesus
Israel
Which one is the Father?
Which one is the Son?
Which in is the HS?
Why are you all twisted up over this?
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:55:09
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:49:09
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: w
herefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Holy spirit is a title it is not a name.
Father is a title
Son is a title
Jesus is a name
Just beyond silly now... ::frown::
God is a name
Jesus is a name (because He came to earth and earthlings CALL each other by name ::shrug::)
Holy Spirit is a name.
Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Who are these gods?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:02:33
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:55:09
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:49:09
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: w
herefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Holy spirit is a title it is not a name.
Father is a title
Son is a title
Jesus is a name
Just beyond silly now... ::frown::
God is a name
Jesus is a name (because He came to earth and earthlings CALL each other by name ::shrug::)
Holy Spirit is a name.
Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Who are these gods?
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are THE GOD.
Three distinct personalities within ONE sovereign God.
So the name of your God is what?
God?
Philippians 2:9-10 (KJV)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
If God is a name then these verses don't matter
If we follow your philosophy
The name of God or the name of Jesus
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:05:32
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:02:33
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:55:09
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:49:09
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: w
herefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Holy spirit is a title it is not a name.
Father is a title
Son is a title
Jesus is a name
Just beyond silly now... ::frown::
God is a name
Jesus is a name (because He came to earth and earthlings CALL each other by name ::shrug::)
Holy Spirit is a name.
Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Who are these gods?
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are THE GOD.
Three distinct personalities within ONE sovereign God.
Where is this written or is this your church doctrine?
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:07:28
So the name of your God is what?
God?
Philippians 2:9-10 (KJV)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
If God is a name then these verses don't matter
If we follow your philosophy
The name of God or the name of Jesus
oh my gosh... ::faint::
So, what are you all twisted up about?
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
If God is a name then what is your God's name?
God
Maybe that God you call on when you say God no is
Allah
Buddha
Krishna
Zeus
Odin
God is a title
God has a name
The God of the Christians has a name and his name is not God.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:15:24
If God is a name then what is your God's name?
God
Maybe that God you call on when you say God no is
Allah
Buddha
Krishna
Zeus
Odin
God is a title
God has a name
The God of the Christians has a name and his name is not God.
::frown:: You are just being antagonistic now.
Please answer the question I asked you.
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:09:46
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:07:28
So the name of your God is what?
God?
Philippians 2:9-10 (KJV)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
If God is a name then these verses don't matter
If we follow your philosophy
The name of God or the name of Jesus
oh my gosh... ::faint::
So, what are you all twisted up about?
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
He is the comforter, the spirit of truth.
He is not God you can't rea that.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:18:17
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:09:46
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:07:28
So the name of your God is what?
God?
Philippians 2:9-10 (KJV)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
If God is a name then these verses don't matter
If we follow your philosophy
The name of God or the name of Jesus
oh my gosh... ::faint::
So, what are you all twisted up about?
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
He is the comforter, the spirit of truth.
He is not God you can't rea that.
So, just an agel then?
and yes. I can. ::smile::
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:17:33
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:15:24
If God is a name then what is your God's name?
God
Maybe that God you call on when you say God no is
Allah
Buddha
Krishna
Zeus
Odin
God is a title
God has a name
The God of the Christians has a name and his name is not God.
::frown:: You are just being antagonistic now.
Please answer the question I asked you.
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
No I'm not.
I'm not doing anything but providing verses and replying to comments
I know this is a controversial topic so I have to be prepared for people like you to get emotional
When I get to that part you won't like who the bible say he is
Thanks for responding and thanks for not calling me names because I don't agree.
Thanks to you all, I have to charge my phone.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:17:33
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:15:24
If God is a name then what is your God's name?
God
Maybe that God you call on when you say God no is
Allah
Buddha
Krishna
Zeus
Odin
God is a title
God has a name
The God of the Christians has a name and his name is not God.
::frown:: You are just being antagonistic now.
Please answer the question I asked you.
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
No I'm not.
Yes. You are, actually.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
I'm not doing anything but providing verses and replying to comments
Oh, now let's be honest, Howard. That is not all you are doing. You are also saying things like "What's YOUR God's name?" as if I am following a false god and then go on to try and bait me with listing of names of known false gods. Its rude, its arrogant and its provoking...
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
I know this is a controversial topic so I have to be prepared for people like you to get emotional
??? Uuummm....I'm not emotional. And what's with the comment "people like you"? Not a real humble way of speaking. ::shrug:: ::frown::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
When I get to that part you won't like who the bible say he is
Ok? I already know what the bible says He is...so, I'm guess its probably your opinion I will disagree with. ::shrug::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
Thanks for responding and thanks for not calling me names because I don't agree.
No problem. ::smile::
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:19:23
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:18:17
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:09:46
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:07:28
So the name of your God is what?
God?
Philippians 2:9-10 (KJV)
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
If God is a name then these verses don't matter
If we follow your philosophy
The name of God or the name of Jesus
oh my gosh... ::faint::
So, what are you all twisted up about?
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
He is the comforter, the spirit of truth.
He is not God you can't rea that.
So, just an agel then?
and yes. I can. ::smile::
Read to me God the Holy Ghost?
Read to me where the HS is called God?
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:30:58
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:17:33
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:15:24
If God is a name then what is your God's name?
God
Maybe that God you call on when you say God no is
Allah
Buddha
Krishna
Zeus
Odin
God is a title
God has a name
The God of the Christians has a name and his name is not God.
::frown:: You are just being antagonistic now.
Please answer the question I asked you.
Who do YOU say the Holy Spirit is?
No I'm not.
Yes. You are, actually.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
I'm not doing anything but providing verses and replying to comments
Oh, now let's be honest, Howard. That is not all you are doing. You are also saying things like "What's YOUR God's name?" as if I am following a false god and then go on to try and bait me with listing of names of known false gods. Its rude, its arrogant and its provoking...
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
I know this is a controversial topic so I have to be prepared for people like you to get emotional
??? Uuummm....I'm not emotional. And what's with the comment "people like you"? Not a real humble way of speaking. ::shrug:: ::frown::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
When I get to that part you won't like who the bible say he is
Ok? I already know what the bible says He is...so, I'm guess its probably your opinion I will disagree with. ::shrug::
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:25:11
Thanks for responding and thanks for not calling me names because I don't agree.
No problem. ::smile::
People are saying God is a name. I ask a question what is your God name?
Who am I antagonizing?
Only you said this so am I antagonizing you
This is a emotion.
I want this to be a friendly discussion with a open mind.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:36:02
I want this to be a friendly discussion with a open mind.
then quit trying to bait it into something else by bringing up the names of known false gods as IF they are who I am talking about. ::smile::
Pointing out to you that you are trying to be antagonistic is NOT being emotional. Its calling it like it is.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:31:58
Read to me God the Holy Ghost?
Read to me where the HS is called God?
So, THIS is where we are going? THIS is your argument?
"If it doesn't say it EXACTLY like I want it to, its not true!"
::frown::
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:43:07
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 21:31:58
Read to me God the Holy Ghost?
Read to me where the HS is called God?
So, THIS is where we are going? THIS is your argument?
"If it doesn't say it EXACTLY like I want it to, its not true!"
::frown::
I know it don't say it that way, we all know this,put where you think is says or means the HS is God.
Is there anything from the lesson I put that you agree or disagree on?
Other than the 2 in the God Family.
::smile:: wow. We got off topic.
The names of God in the Kjv
Melchizedek
Jah
Jehovah
Israel
Jesus
Which one is God the HS?
Difficulties soon emerged in formulating and understanding this threefold "economy." Divergent views led early to numerous Trinitarian controversies such as those over subordinationism (the teaching that the Son is subordinate to the Father and the Holy Spirit to both; see Arianism) and modalism (the view that the three modes are transitory; see Monarchianism and Sabellianism).
The Councils of Nicaea (325) and Constantinople (381) outlined the dogma of the Trinity in express rejection of these teachings.
The Nicene, or Niceno-Constantinopolitan, creed has defined through the ages, for both Catholic (Roman and Orthodox) and Reformation (Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican) churches, the basic doctrine of the Trinity. Catholic and Protestant theology has sought in various ways to make the doctrine stated at Nicaea comprehensible.
Saint Augustine's lucid analogies of the divine Trinity in our experience of ourselves as memory, understanding, and will, and in our experience of our own existence as characterized by being, truth, and love, have been the point of departure for most subsequent study. In the religious thought of the Enlightenment (17th and 18th centuries), there was a strong reaction against Trinitarianism as an "orthodox" mystery without basis in either experience or reason this was the view of Unitarianism and deism and of much 19th-century liberal theology.
The great figures of 20th-century theology Karl Barth, Paul Tillich, and, most recently, Karl Rahner despite their diversity of outlook, have again found the Trinity a central, in fact an unavoidable, structure for expressing the Christian understanding of God. (End of quote)
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:41:17
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:38:13
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:32:45
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:26:42
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:24:18
: FireSword Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:33:06
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 19:06:11
I know the HS is not God because of his job description and not one time in the bible is the HS called God.
I even went to acts 5 to try and prove it and I failed there.
Go ahead and Go there, pay attention to the conversation
And read these verses once done
It took awhile for my spiritual eyes to open
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. [6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
Look what the Lord say don't do and if you do vow and don't keep it
Who heard the vow? Who did you lie to
Blasphemy! ::noworries::
That is to cause offence to God, and blasphemy against the holy spirit is spoken in scripture, therefore Holy spirit is part of the Godhead, other wise how can there be blasphemy.
The name is ambiguous due to the holy spirit being hidden in the inner sanctuary, the holy of holies.
Since the term spirit and holy spirit can be used to define other spirits i.e Pauls spirit is holy, but yet Jesus makes it clear that Holy Spirit is another, a comforter.
Jesus did not call the comforter God. That's not written
The Comforter is the Spirit's role as well as a specific name. Each person of the trinity has specific characteristics.
God The Father has a name
God the Son has a name
What is the name of the comforter?
Holy Spirit is His name.
Yup. ::nodding:: ::shrug:: Why is this being made SOOO hard? Baffles me. ::juggle::
The reason for that is unbelief.
: howard Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:44:49
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 20:35:43
Howard, you are just blowing hot air. The Lord in His word gives Holy Spirit personhood. We don't call Him 'He'---God does. so, either get with the program or stay out of touch. It's your choice. I should think that if you knew the Lord, you would want everything He died to give you. But as you reject His Spirit, you are obviously grieving Him adn He cannot get through to you as long as you have this stiff neck about Him.
If you are refusing to hear Holy Spirit, who is supposed to be indwelling you. then you aren't going to hear us. So, your arguments are just wind.
If you don't know you don't know. I put the words of God and yet you attack me
Answer the verse
Answer what verse? Is there a question? No one is attacking you. Your belief about God is incorrect, and it is being brought to your attention.
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Attributes: Who Is He?
He possesses omniscience (1 Cor. 2:11,12)
He possess omnipresence (Ps. 139:7)
He possesses omnipotence (Job 33:4)
He is Truth (1 John 5:6)
He gives life (Luke 11:13)
He possesses creative wisdom (Is. 40:13)
He possesses all the attributes of deity: He is God (Acts 5:3,4)
Record: What He Has Done
In the Old Testament
He was active at creation (Gen. 1:2)
He was the bestower of supernatural giftedness (Gen. 31:38)
He was the giver of creativity (Ex. 31:2-5)
He was the source of power (Judg. 3:9, 10)
He inspired prophecy (1 Sam. 19:20, 23)
He was the mediator of God's message (Mic. 3:8)
In the New Testament:
He was part of the Incarnation (Luke 1:35)
He declared the truth about Christ (John 16:13,14)
He endowed believers with power for witnessing (Acts 1:8)
He poured out God's love (Rom. 5:5)
He interceded (Rom. 8:26)
He was the inspiration for the writing of the Holy Scripture (2 Tim.3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21)
He distributed giftedness for ministry (1 Cor.12:4-11)
He empowered believers with characteristics for godly living (Gal. 5:22, 23)
He Strengthened believers within (Eph. 3:16)
Work: What He Will Do
He will guide the believer (Acts 8:29 ; Rom. 8:14)
He will give assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:14-17)
He will be the believer's teacher (1 John 2:27)
He will intercede (Rom. 8:26)
He will comfort (John 14:16)
He will sanctify (2 Thes. 2:13)
He will accomplish regeneration (John 3:6)
He will make you aware of sin (John 16:8)
He will convince you of the truth of the gospel (John 16:8, 13, 14)
He will empower you to witness (Acts 1:8;4:31)
He will destroy the power of sin in your life (Rom. 8:2-6)
He will lead and even control your life (Rom. 8:14;Gal. 5:16, 25)
He will distribuite gifts to be used in the kingdom (1 Cor. 12:14-11
The Holy Spirit was promised as a gift to believers, part of His ministry is to seal believers at the moment they place saving faith in Christ. The term "seal" includes certain truths: He is a provision of security, a mark of ownership, and a sign of approval. Indeed, the Holy Spirit's presence in believers' lives is the final evidence, both to themselves and to others, of the truth of what each has believed. Further, He is the down payment, providing both a foretaste of the believer's spiritual inheritance and a legal claim to the fullness of that inheritance in the future.
The Father's Names
El Elohe Israel: God, the God of Israel -- Gen 33:18-20
El Elyon: Most High God -- Gen 14:17-20
El Olam: Everlasting God -- Isaiah 40:28-31
El Roi: The One who sees – Gen 16:12
El Shaddai: God Almighty -- Gen 17:21
Elohim: God -- Gen 1:1
Jehovah Gmolah: God of Recompense -- Jer 51:56
Jehovah Jireh: Lord will Provide --Gen 22:13,14
Jehovah Maccaddeshem: Lord my Sanctifier -- Ex 31:13
Jehovah Makkeh: Lord who Strikes -- Ezekiel 7:9
Jehovah Nissi: Lord our Banner -- Ex 17:15
Jehovah Rapha: Lord our Healer -- Ex 16:26
Jehovah Rohi: Lord my Shepherd -- Psalm 23:1
Jehovah Sabbaoth: Lord of Hosts -- Isaiah 6:1-3
Jehovah Shalom: Lord our Peace -- Judges 6:24
Jehovah Shammah: Lord who is Present -- Ezekiel 48:35
Jehovah Tsidkenu: Lord our Righteousness -- Jer 23:6
Jesus' Attributes/Names:
Exceeding Joy: Psalm 43:4
Hiding place: Ps 119:114
Mighty in Battle: Ps 24:7-10
Makes a way in the sea: Is 43:16
Lifter of my head: Ps 3:3
Safe refuge: Ps 46:1
Rock: Ps 18:46
Shade at my right hand: Ps 121: 4-5
Shield for me: Ps 3:3
Strength of my heart: Ps 73:26
Very present help in trouble: Ps 46:1
From John:
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life
I am the Resurrection and the Life
I am the Bread of Life
I am the Door
I am the Good Shepherd
I am the Light of the World
I am the Son of God
I am the Vine
Advocate, Attorney
Alpha, Omega
Author, finisher of our Faith
Captain of our Salvation
Forerunner
Friend of Sinners
Lion of Judah
Man of Sorrows
Master
Mediator
Physician
Refiner
Saviour
True Vine
Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!
John 4:24
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.
It is spiritual suicide to claim Christ, yet deny Holy Spirit...
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Note what the scripture says, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush." Who was in the bush?
The angel of the Lord. Keep that in mind. Let's continue.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, "Here am I.
From footnotes:
"The Angel of the Lord
I was beginning to wander if I was allowed to see this!
: biblecat Wed Jul 04, 2012 - 10:47:49
I was beginning to wander if I was allowed to see this!
Well, wander around it no more! ::giggle::
What do you mean though, seriously? About being allowed to see it?
I'm sorry it was early in the mourning when I wrote that. I men't to say, I was wandering if I was the only one left that was allowed to see this.
What I mean by being allowed to see it is that I give God, and God only the credit for Him allowing me to see that their is one God, one Son of God, and one Spirit of God.. Unlike the vast majority of people in the world I would rather say that God is in the Son through the Holy Spirit instead of saying God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit.. Their is only one God, but you already know that..
In Mathew 3:16 when Jesus was baptized is when the Spirit of God lighted, or made His abode in Jesus. Here are a few more verses that confirm this. Matthew 12:28, John 14:10, 2 Corinthians 5:19...
There's more...
Remember it's God that allows people to see. Unfortunately not everybody is allowed to see.. IE:Romans 9:14-16 pay special attention to verse 15, and all so see Ephesians 2:8..
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
Let's look at this blasphemous statement you made
"One God in three persons"
how is it one God when we can read Jesus is God and the Father is God that =2
GOD the Father is a spirit
Jesus is a spirit
The HS is a spirit
Where and how does a person come into the picture
We have 3 individual, not one individual in 3
"The reason for that is unbelief."
Trinity is not there
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:19:43
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Attributes: Who Is He?
He possesses omniscience (1 Cor. 2:11,12)
He possess omnipresence (Ps. 139:7)
He possesses omnipotence (Job 33:4)
He is Truth (1 John 5:6)
He gives life (Luke 11:13)
He possesses creative wisdom (Is. 40:13)
He possesses all the attributes of deity: He is God (Acts 5:3,4)
Record: What He Has Done
In the Old Testament
He was active at creation (Gen. 1:2)
He was the bestower of supernatural giftedness (Gen. 31:38)
He was the giver of creativity (Ex. 31:2-5)
He was the source of power (Judg. 3:9, 10)
He inspired prophecy (1 Sam. 19:20, 23)
He was the mediator of God's message (Mic. 3:8)
In the New Testament:
He was part of the Incarnation (Luke 1:35)
He declared the truth about Christ (John 16:13,14)
He endowed believers with power for witnessing (Acts 1:8)
He poured out God's love (Rom. 5:5)
He interceded (Rom. 8:26)
He was the inspiration for the writing of the Holy Scripture (2 Tim.3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21)
He distributed giftedness for ministry (1 Cor.12:4-11)
He empowered believers with characteristics for godly living (Gal. 5:22, 23)
He Strengthened believers within (Eph. 3:16)
Work: What He Will Do
He will guide the believer (Acts 8:29 ; Rom. 8:14)
He will give assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:14-17)
He will be the believer's teacher (1 John 2:27)
He will intercede (Rom. 8:26)
He will comfort (John 14:16)
He will sanctify (2 Thes. 2:13)
He will accomplish regeneration (John 3:6)
He will make you aware of sin (John 16:8)
He will convince you of the truth of the gospel (John 16:8, 13, 14)
He will empower you to witness (Acts 1:8;4:31)
He will destroy the power of sin in your life (Rom. 8:2-6)
He will lead and even control your life (Rom. 8:14;Gal. 5:16, 25)
He will distribuite gifts to be used in the kingdom (1 Cor. 12:14-11
The Holy Spirit was promised as a gift to believers, part of His ministry is to seal believers at the moment they place saving faith in Christ. The term "seal" includes certain truths: He is a provision of security, a mark of ownership, and a sign of approval. Indeed, the Holy Spirit's presence in believers' lives is the final evidence, both to themselves and to others, of the truth of what each has believed. Further, He is the down payment, providing both a foretaste of the believer's spiritual inheritance and a legal claim to the fullness of that inheritance in the future.
Where is he called God?
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
John 4:24 (ASV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:39:24
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:19:43
THE HOLY SPIRIT
Attributes: Who Is He?
He possesses omniscience (1 Cor. 2:11,12)
He possess omnipresence (Ps. 139:7)
He possesses omnipotence (Job 33:4)
He is Truth (1 John 5:6)
He gives life (Luke 11:13)
He possesses creative wisdom (Is. 40:13)
He possesses all the attributes of deity: He is God (Acts 5:3,4)
Record: What He Has Done
In the Old Testament
He was active at creation (Gen. 1:2)
He was the bestower of supernatural giftedness (Gen. 31:38)
He was the giver of creativity (Ex. 31:2-5)
He was the source of power (Judg. 3:9, 10)
He inspired prophecy (1 Sam. 19:20, 23)
He was the mediator of God's message (Mic. 3:8)
In the New Testament:
He was part of the Incarnation (Luke 1:35)
He declared the truth about Christ (John 16:13,14)
He endowed believers with power for witnessing (Acts 1:8)
He poured out God's love (Rom. 5:5)
He interceded (Rom. 8:26)
He was the inspiration for the writing of the Holy Scripture (2 Tim.3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21)
He distributed giftedness for ministry (1 Cor.12:4-11)
He empowered believers with characteristics for godly living (Gal. 5:22, 23)
He Strengthened believers within (Eph. 3:16)
Work: What He Will Do
He will guide the believer (Acts 8:29 ; Rom. 8:14)
He will give assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:14-17)
He will be the believer's teacher (1 John 2:27)
He will intercede (Rom. 8:26)
He will comfort (John 14:16)
He will sanctify (2 Thes. 2:13)
He will accomplish regeneration (John 3:6)
He will make you aware of sin (John 16:8)
He will convince you of the truth of the gospel (John 16:8, 13, 14)
He will empower you to witness (Acts 1:8;4:31)
He will destroy the power of sin in your life (Rom. 8:2-6)
He will lead and even control your life (Rom. 8:14;Gal. 5:16, 25)
He will distribuite gifts to be used in the kingdom (1 Cor. 12:14-11
The Holy Spirit was promised as a gift to believers, part of His ministry is to seal believers at the moment they place saving faith in Christ. The term "seal" includes certain truths: He is a provision of security, a mark of ownership, and a sign of approval. Indeed, the Holy Spirit's presence in believers' lives is the final evidence, both to themselves and to others, of the truth of what each has believed. Further, He is the down payment, providing both a foretaste of the believer's spiritual inheritance and a legal claim to the fullness of that inheritance in the future.
Where is he called God?
He is God. God is not a name. It is who He is.
Please check out John 4:24 as well, which proves that God is also the Spirit.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:43:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
Matthew 28:19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father and of the
Son and of the
Holy Spirit,
All three are One God.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:43:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
First you say the Bible doesn't say God is a Spirit--that it's not written there. Now you are thanking me for showing you where it
IS written. The plain fact is that God has revealed Himself as ONE God in three persons. God is called "
The God of all comfort"---and the Holy Spirit it called the "
comforter". Why you would want to continue to argue that God is two instead of three persons is beyond me--when the Bible clearly teaches otherwise.
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:36:23
Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:57:22
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:43:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
First you say the Bible doesn't say God is a Spirit--that it's not written there. Now you are thanking me for showing you where it IS written. The plain fact is that God has revealed Himself as ONE God in three persons. God is called "The God of all comfort"---and the Holy Spirit it called the "comforter". Why you would want to continue to argue that God is two instead of three persons is beyond me--when the Bible clearly teaches otherwise.
God the Father
God th Son
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
I know what I posted and I did it for a reason
Is there one God ?
Is it 4 Gods?
Your theory is wrong
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:36:07
"The reason for that is unbelief."
Trinity is not there
He certainly isn't present in those who deny Him.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:01:53
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:57:22
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:43:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
First you say the Bible doesn't say God is a Spirit--that it's not written there. Now you are thanking me for showing you where it IS written. The plain fact is that God has revealed Himself as ONE God in three persons. God is called "The God of all comfort"---and the Holy Spirit it called the "comforter". Why you would want to continue to argue that God is two instead of three persons is beyond me--when the Bible clearly teaches otherwise.
God the Father
God th Son
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
I know what I posted and I did it for a reason
Is there one God ?
Is it 4 Gods?
Your theory is wrong
SOMEbody's theory is.... ::whistle::
whispered (Its not Fish's)
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:58:13
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:36:23
Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:54:20
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:43:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
All three are One God.
This sounds like Unitarianism?
It is impossible for all 3 to be one God
Here is a example
Luke 1:30-32 (KJV)
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Jesus shall be called the son of the highest
This implies that Jesus the son has a father
The highest must be the Father who is God
Paul confirms that the Father is God
2 Timothy 1:2 (KJV)
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Now lets read where Jesus the son is called God
John 20:29 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Thomas confirms Jesus is God
We have 2 where are you getting the one from
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:34:48
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:54:20
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:43:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:38:55
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:26:29
: fish153 Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:09:14
"The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days..." The Spirit can speak. He can also be grieved, insulted, quenched, blasphemed, etc. Those things can only happen to a Person. God is a Trinity--One God in three persons---and the Holy Spirit is part of that Trinity. That is Christian doctrine---and it is true doctrine.
Where in the bible does it say God is a spirit?
Thats not written
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth". (John 4:24)
Thank you
Now that you have establish God is a spirit
Where is it written that 3 person ?
My point is if we use your belief we have one spirit going inside 3 persons
So the trinity consists of 1 god and 3 persons
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
All three are One God.
This sounds like Unitarianism?
It is impossible for all 3 to be one God
Here is a example
Luke 1:30-32 (KJV)
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Jesus shall be called the son of the highest
This implies that Jesus the son has a father
The highest must be the Father who is God
Paul confirms that the Father is God
2 Timothy 1:2 (KJV)
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Now lets read where Jesus the son is called God
John 20:29 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Thomas confirms Jesus is God
We have 2 where are you getting the one from
God is Three in One. It isn't Unitarianism. It is God.
"As soon as JESUS was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and alighting on him. And A VOICE FROM HEAVEN said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:05:30
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:58:13
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:36:23
Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:48:49
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:05:30
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:58:13
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:36:23
Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:47:29
"As soon as JESUS was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and alighting on him. And A VOICE FROM HEAVEN said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
That was really nice not to mention very true... Thank you Mr. Lively Stone.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:57:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:47:29
"As soon as JESUS was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and alighting on him. And A VOICE FROM HEAVEN said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:07:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:57:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:47:29
"As soon as JESUS was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and alighting on him. And A VOICE FROM HEAVEN said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:51:52
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:48:49
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:05:30
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 13:58:13
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 03, 2012 - 23:36:23
Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God!
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
Its unrelated to you for a reason
Read what it says and compare it to the other apostles
If you would take note you would notice that this statement is said before Jesus was baptized .
He told us what was going to happen and it happened
Jesus said angels do when I happened what descended?
All it take s is a little belief in Jesus words.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:07:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:57:00
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 14:47:29
"As soon as JESUS was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and alighting on him. And A VOICE FROM HEAVEN said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
Are you making this stuff up?
Where is this written?
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:32:22
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
Its unrelated to you for a reason
Read what it says and compare it to the other apostles
If you would take note you would notice that this statement is said before Jesus was baptized .
He told us what was going to happen and it happened
Jesus said angels do when I happened what descended?
All it take s is a little belief in Jesus words.
It is unrelated.
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying Holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The history books tells us this about the trinity doctrine
Here is a quote from the Grolier encyclopedia.
Difficulties soon emerged in formulating and understanding this threefold "economy." Divergent views led early to numerous Trinitarian controversies such as those over subordinationism (the teaching that the Son is subordinate to the Father and the Holy Spirit to both; see Arianism) and modalism (the view that the three modes are transitory; see Monarchianism and Sabellianism).
The Councils of Nicaea (325) and Constantinople (381) outlined the dogma of the Trinity in express rejection of these teachings.
The Nicene, or Niceno-Constantinopolitan, creed has defined through the ages, for both Catholic (Roman and Orthodox) and Reformation (Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican) churches, the basic doctrine of the Trinity. Catholic and Protestant theology has sought in various ways to make the doctrine stated at Nicaea comprehensible.
Saint Augustine's lucid analogies of the divine Trinity in our experience of ourselves as memory, understanding, and will, and in our experience of our own existence as characterized by being, truth, and love, have been the point of departure for most subsequent study.
In the religious thought of the Enlightenment (17th and 18th centuries), there was a strong reaction against Trinitarianism as an "orthodox" mystery without basis in either experience or reason this was the view of Unitarianism and deism and of much 19th-century liberal theology.
The great figures of 20th-century theology Karl Barth, Paul Tillich, and, most recently, Karl Rahner despite their diversity of outlook, have again found the Trinity a central, in fact an unavoidable, structure for expressing the Christian understanding of God. (End of quote)
The history books is telling us when this doctrine was formulated
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
Satan is that evil spirit from God
Satan job is to look for those who want to sin
1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Satan is a angel or spirit
He is a ministering spirit that does evil
Sent from God
Is he the spirit of truth?
He is a spirit. He is sent from God, he brings truth
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Satan can bring truth/light
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:39:38
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
Yes, in that sense they are "from" God...and I am not denying He is the creator...but you seem to be twisting scripture to say "from" God as in, cooperation with Him. God allowed Satan to persecute Job, but HE Himself was not in the persecution.
The Holy Spirit is NOT an evil one. The Holy Spirit is our Helper and Comforter.
Note what the scripture says, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush." Who was in the bush? The angel of the Lord.
Keep that in mind.
Let's continue.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, "Here am I.
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. (Exodus 3:6-8)
Who is doing the talking?
Is it the Lord or is the angel?
Let's go into Exodus the 23rd chapter, begin at the 20th verse, and let's see who's doing the talking.
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. (Exodus 23:20-23)
Is the Lord doing the talking?
Note what's being said, "I send an Angel before thee." Remember in Exodus chapter 3 the scripture stated, "He has come down to deliver His people." Who came down?
The angel of the Lord came down, not the Lord Himself.
Notice what else the verse says, "Beware of him, and obey his voice, he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." Only God can pardon transgressions, not an angel. Note this, "But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak."
Plain and simple sisters and brothers, this particular angel brings the message to men and he will speak only what the Lord tells him to speak. Now, let's go to the book of Isaiah chapter 63 and see this a little clearer.
Note who was sent and also what he is called.
Non-traditional Theology debates can only be called one thing: Nonsensical.
You have had scripture clearly showing a trinity in the Bible put right before you, yet you will state there is no trinity because that word does not appear in the Bible? The word "trinity" itself does not need to be in the Bible for us to believe or not believe there is a trinity. It is revealed by God Himself. There are those who also deny the divinity of Jesus. Jesus never clearly stated "Hello everyone, I am God"---but it is clear that Jesus was God incarnate. Your reasoning is non-traditional, and along with that, nonsensical.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:37:13
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?
Exodus 31:3I have filled him with the
Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Exodus 35:31The LORD has filled Bezalel with the
Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
1 Samuel 10:10When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the
Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.
Psalm 51:11Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your
Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-11But they rebelled against him and grieved his
Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them. Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his
Holy Spirit to be among his people?
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:39:38
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
The word for 'evil' there is 'râ‛âh', which in this context means, 'calamity' or 'disaster'.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:45:22
Satan is that evil spirit from God
Satan job is to look for those who want to sin
1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Satan is a angel or spirit
He is a ministering spirit that does evil
Sent from God
Is he the spirit of truth?
He is a spirit. He is sent from God, he brings truth
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Satan can bring truth/light
Well you can believe that, but you would be considered an enemy of God for it.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:51:59
Note what the scripture says, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush." Who was in the bush? The angel of the Lord.
Keep that in mind.
Let's continue.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, "Here am I.
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:48:16
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:39:38
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
Yes, in that sense they are "from" God...and I am not denying He is the creator...but you seem to be twisting scripture to say "from" God as in, cooperation with Him. God allowed Satan to persecute Job, but HE Himself was not in the persecution.
The Holy Spirit is NOT an evil one. The Holy Spirit is our Helper and Comforter.
Satan obeys God
God controls everything and commands everything even Satan
Satan was in the persecution of Job
Who is th dialogue between
Job 1:6-10 (KJV)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord , and Satan came also among them. [7] And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. [8] And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? [9] Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? [10] Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Look what the Lord told Satan what not to do to Job.
Job 1:11-12 (KJV)
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. [12] And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord .
Satan had his hand in trying to break Job
The evil angels as is the holy angels obey the Lord
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 22:07:28
Satan obeys God
Oh please! Obedience in the most forced coerced sense of the word! Before the Holy God he is a wet noodle. Satan hasn't the power of God..he has no choice and is bound when God gives him boundaries. IF he could, he wouldn't obey at all!
: fish153 Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 18:45:35
Non-traditional Theology debates can only be called one thing: Nonsensical.
You have had scripture clearly showing a trinity in the Bible put right before you, yet you will state there is no trinity because that word does not appear in the Bible? The word "trinity" itself does not need to be in the Bible for us to believe or not believe there is a trinity. It is revealed by God Himself. There are those who also deny the divinity of Jesus. Jesus never clearly stated "Hello everyone, I am God"---but it is clear that Jesus was God incarnate. Your reasoning is non-traditional, and along with that, nonsensical.
evangelical is not in the Bible? do you apply the same non-traditional nonsensical doctrine?
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:47:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:37:13
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?
Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.
Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and dont take your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them. Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?
Acts 7:52-54
King James Version (KJV)
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:48:16
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:39:38
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
Yes, in that sense they are "from" God...and I am not denying He is the creator...but you seem to be twisting scripture to say "from" God as in, cooperation with Him. God allowed Satan to persecute Job, but HE Himself was not in the persecution.
The Holy Spirit is NOT an evil one. The Holy Spirit is our Helper and Comforter.
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:51:43
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:39:38
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
The word for 'evil' there is 'râ‛âh', which in this context means, 'calamity' or 'disaster'.
it still sin whatever context you read it in.
without sin there is no such thing as calamity or disaters
somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word
what happen to God the holy Ghost?
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:22:40
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:47:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:37:13
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?
Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.
Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them. Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?
Acts 7:52-54
King James Version (KJV)
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel
So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.
here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)
where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:33:42
somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word
what happen to God the holy Ghost?
No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:35:33
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:22:40
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:47:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:37:13
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?
Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.
Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them. Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?
Acts 7:52-54
King James Version (KJV)
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel
So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.
then where does the holy spirit come in at?
where is God the holy spirit?
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:38:31
here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)
where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?
LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:40:06
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:35:33
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:22:40
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:47:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:37:13
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?
Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.
Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and don't take your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them. Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?
Acts 7:52-54
King James Version (KJV)
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel
So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.
then where does the holy spirit come in at?
where is God the holy spirit?
Holy Spirit came to earth to stay and do the works of Christ at Pentecost.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:39:14
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:33:42
somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word
what happen to God the holy Ghost?
No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.
yes I beleive in Jesus
Yes I beleive in the Father
yes I beleive in the Holy Spirit
the Holy spirit is not God
there is no proof of the HS being God
all the other comments in your post is your opinion and cannot be proven in the word or said by God.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:41:39
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:40:06
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:35:33
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:22:40
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:47:50
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:37:13
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:29:53
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
No. The Spirit of Christ is Holy Spirit. Denying holy Spirit is denying God---they would be merely nominal Christians...in name only.
The God in the OT is Jesus, Paul told us this
It was Jesus who wa with the Israelites in the wilderness
1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Who is th Christ of the bible?
Jesus
Who sent the evil spirit from God in the OT
Jesus
.
Who was it who empowered the prophets and the men of God in the OT?
Exodus 31:3
I have filled him with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Exodus 35:31
The LORD has filled Bezalel with the Spirit of God, giving him great wisdom, ability, and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
1 Samuel 10:10
When Saul and his servant arrived at Gibeah, they saw a group of prophets coming toward them. Then the Spirit of God came powerfully upon Saul, and he, too, began to prophesy.
Psalm 51:11
Do not banish me from your presence, and dont take your Holy Spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10-11
But they rebelled against him and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he became their enemy and fought against them. Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people?
Acts 7:52-54
King James Version (KJV)
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
the OT prophets received the word/law by a angel
So, what's your point? God's word and His Law is always administered by angels. they are the unseen ones who minister the word of God and the plans of God to us. You gain nothing, nor take away anything with your comments.
then where does the holy spirit come in at?
where is God the holy spirit?
Holy Spirit came to earth to stay and do the works of Christ at Pentecost.
God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit?
the Holy Spirit did but he is not God.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:29:12
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 19:51:43
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:39:38
: MeMyself Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:34:13
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:24:58
Here is a spirit from God
If we use you all theory then this guy is the HS
But we will have a problem because he is a evil spirit from God
1 Samuel 16:15-16 (KJV)
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. [16] Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
This spirit be it evil come from God
1 Samuel 16:23 (KJV)
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10 (KJV)
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1 Samuel 19:9 (KJV)
And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
A spirit from God
We know of a Holy spirit
We know of a evil spirit
From God
::frown::
God allowed an evil spirit, but God has nothing to with evil and if you are comparing the Holy Spirit to an evil one...dude...could you stand waaaaay over there when the lightening starts to strike? ::hiding:: Thanks!
It is written from God's own mouth that he created evil
Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV)
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord , and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .
Guess who that evil is ?
Satan and te evil angels
God created them
The word for 'evil' there is 'râ‛âh', which in this context means, 'calamity' or 'disaster'.
it still sin whatever context you read it in.
without sin there is no such thing as calamity or disaters
No it isn't. God's judgments are righteous.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:43:30
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:39:14
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:33:42
somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word
what happen to God the holy Ghost?
No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.
yes I believe in Jesus
Yes I believe in the Father
yes I believe in the Holy Spirit
the Holy spirit is not God
there is no proof of the HS being God
all the other comments in your post is your opinion and cannot be proven in the word or said by God.
Then who is Holy Spirit in relation to God the Father? In relation to Jesus the Son?
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:40:41
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:38:31
here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)
where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?
LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.
revelation says a angel gave it to John is the HS a angel?
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:49:54
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:40:41
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:38:31
here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)
where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?
LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.
revelation says a angel gave it to John is the HS a angel?
No, Jesus sent an angel alright, but the Spirit of God is who was at work in John to receive the massive revelation.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:49:17
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:43:30
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:39:14
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:33:42
somebody who suppose to be the third leg of the trinity is missing from the beginnig of John
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
we have the Word who is God
we have God who is with the Word
what happen to God the holy Ghost?
No, He isn't missing. The introduction to John is all about Jesus. Holy Spirit is doing His work he is sent to do by revealing the truth of that very passage to your spirit. Otherwise, it is just a mess of words. In your case, however, I believe you do see the truth in who Jesus is, but you grieve Holy Spirit and quench Him and in so doing, you bind the hands of God from working His plans for you in your life. Discontent and lack of real joy should be the result of that, not to mention the lack of the nine-fold fruit of the Spirit in your life.
yes I believe in Jesus
Yes I believe in the Father
yes I believe in the Holy Spirit
the Holy spirit is not God
there is no proof of the HS being God
all the other comments in your post is your opinion and cannot be proven in the word or said by God.
Then who is Holy Spirit in relation to God the Father? In relation to Jesus the Son?
exactly what Jesus said he was to them both
John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
the Father sends the HS in Jesus name, his job is to teach us all things and bring things to our remembrance whatever Jesus has said
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:51:58
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:49:54
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:40:41
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:38:31
here in revelation this same John again exclude God the holy ghost. I sure John did not see him as God
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
we have Jesus
we have God
we have Jesus angel (his angel as the book reads)
we have John (man)
where is God the holy Ghost why is he left out of this chain of command?
LOL! John knew Holy Spirit! He was given the revelation of Jesus Christ by His hand. Holy Spirit is the revealer of all truth.
revelation says a angel gave it to John is the HS a angel?
No, Jesus sent an angel alright, but the Spirit of God is who was at work in John to receive the massive revelation.
put the verse
lets read where the angel is bringing the message(truth)
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
lets read where the angel went and what else they are called
Revelation 2:
2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks
7He that hath an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
the angel is the spirit that went to the churches and gave them God's word
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, The first man, Adam, became a living person. But the last Adamthat is, Christis a life-giving Spirit.
Romans 8:9
But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)
Jesus is God
where do it say that the Holy Spirit is God?
all you proven with these verses is Jesus is God we both agree in this, we all agree on this.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.
I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
this HS will no speak of himself
he only speaks what he hears
he is to show us things to come
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:22:08
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
this HS will no speak of himself
he only speaks what he hears
he is to show us things to come
Yes, that is right...just as Jesus said he only spoke what He heard the Father say, Holy Spirit only speaks what the Son says, and only brings glory to Him.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.
it is still sin
and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God
this lets us know the Jesus trully created everything as it is written
he created all things including evil
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.
it is still sin
and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God
this lets us know the Jesus trully created everything as it is written
he created all things including evil
No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.
I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are
a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit
we read
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
the angels are spirit
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
the angels of the Lord are holy
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:35:28
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.
I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are
a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit
we read
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
the angels are spirit
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
the angels of the Lord are holy
An angel that didn't follow after Satan is a holy angel! Angels are spirit beings. Satan is of one class of spirit beings called archangels. There are many other classes of spiritual beings in heaven now, including seraphim and cherubim. Humans are spirit beings, also. God is a spirit being. Jesus is also, as well as being human, and so is Holy Spirit a spiritual being.
You are confused.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:34:22
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.
it is still sin
and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God
this lets us know the Jesus trully created everything as it is written
he created all things including evil
No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?
Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Proverbs 13:21
Evil pursueth sinners: but to the righteous good shall be repayed.
Ecclesiastes 8:12
Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:
Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:34:22
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disaster or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.
it is still sin
and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God
this lets us know the Jesus truly created everything as it is written
he created all things including evil
No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?
God created evil and God brings evil
who is evil?
satan and those that follow him which are sinners
this has nothing to do with missing a mark or God being evil/
lets read something else
Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:36:44
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:35:28
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.
I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are
a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit
we read
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
the angels are spirit
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
the angels of the Lord are holy
An angel that didn't follow after Satan in a holy angel! Angels are spirit beings. Satan is of one class of spirit beings called archangels. There are many other classes of spiritual beings in heaven now, including seraphim and cherubim. Humans are spirit beings, also. God is a spirit being. Jesus is also, as well as being human, and so is Holy Spirit a spiritual being.
You are confused.
yes this post has confused me
human being is not a spirit being
human beings are not holy
satan a cherub is still a angel
the serapim are still angels
Gabriel and Michael are holy angels who happen to be arch angels
yet still angels
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
(Exodus 23:20-23)
Is the Lord doing the talking?
Note what's being said, "I send an Angel before thee."
Remember in Exodus chapter 3 the scripture stated, "He has come down to deliver His people."
Who came down?
The angel of the Lord came down, not the Lord Himself.
Notice what else the verse says, "Beware of him, and obey his voice, he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him."
Only God can pardon transgressions, not an angel.
Note this, "But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak."
Plain and simple sisters and brothers, this particular angel brings the message to men and he will speak only what the Lord tells him to speak.
Now, let's go to the book of Isaiah chapter 63 and see this a little clearer. Note who was sent and also what he is called.
In their entire affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. (Isaiah 63:9-10)
This spirit was called two different names, the angel of his presence and Holy Spirit.
Remember in Exodus the 3rd chapter the angel told Moses, "Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
Meaning this angel is also holy or a holy spirit, and also remember that this spirit was called the angel of the Lord.
Keep these names in mind as we go through this study.
Notice what's being said, "The angel of his presence saved them." Saved whom? Israel!
when did the angel of the Lord's presence save them
In the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Let's see what took place when this angel fought against the children of Israel
We will go to the book of Judges. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHOSE TALKING!
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)
It's the angel that doing the talking correct? Notice what he says, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you: but ye have not obeyed my voice.
The angel has no covenant with Israel!
The angel is simply speaking for the Lord.
Remember in Exodus the 23rd chapter it states, "If thou shalt indeed obey his voice, whose voice?
The angel of the Lord. And do all that I speak then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."
Also remember what it said in Isaiah 63rd chapter, "they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."
Ok, Howard. It is clear you believe what you do and that you are convinced in your own mind, so I am not going to keep throwing my hat in the ring of round and round...
however, I am curious
Do you believe at all in the Holy Spirit? I thought I read that you did, but that He is not part of the God head...
If you DO believe in Him (He is mentioned BY name in the bible, so how can one deny His existence??) who is He to you?
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:48:53
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:34:22
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32
we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it
Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
You really must study before you post verses you pull up.
Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.
its still evil, a disaster or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.
and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil
Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.
Proverbs 17:13
13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house
i guess this is a disaster according to your logic
It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.
it is still sin
and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God
this lets us know the Jesus truly created everything as it is written
he created all things including evil
No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?
God created evil and God brings evil
who is evil?
satan and those that follow him which are sinners
this has nothing to do with missing a mark or God being evil/
lets read something else
Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Once again, God doesn't commit evil. If you cannot reconcile the fact that the word for 'evil' has different connotations and that literal evil is not found in God, then only He can help you.
The so-called 'evil' that God will send is disaster, retributive justice and judgment. That is only evil from the perspective of men. From God's perspective and those who know Him, it is righteous judgment and His perfect justice.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:52:46
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:36:44
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:35:28
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.
I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are
a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit
we read
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
the angels are spirit
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
the angels of the Lord are holy
An angel that didn't follow after Satan in a holy angel! Angels are spirit beings. Satan is of one class of spirit beings called archangels. There are many other classes of spiritual beings in heaven now, including seraphim and cherubim. Humans are spirit beings, also. God is a spirit being. Jesus is also, as well as being human, and so is Holy Spirit a spiritual being.
You are confused.
yes this post has confused me
human being is not a spirit being
human beings are not holy
satan a cherub is still a angel
the serapim are still angels
Gabriel and Michael are holy angels who happen to be arch angels
yet still angels
Yes, human beings are spirit beings. As for holy, when we receive Jesus Christ as Saviour, our spirits are immediately rendered holy because of Holy Spirit's presence.
As for angels, yes there are many different kinds of angelic beings. They have nothing to do with this discussion.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:43:19
Once again, God doesn't commit evil. If you cannot reconcile the fact that the word for 'evil' has different connotations and that literal evil is not found in God, then only He can help you.
The so-called 'evil' that God will send is disaster, retributive justice and judgment. That is only evil from the perspective of men. From God's perspective and those who know Him, it is righteous judgment and His perfect justice.
yeah..that is VERY troublesome to me that someone who think and speak these kinds of things about God.
Sin is of and from the Devil...evil as well. The Father is perfect, holy and just. Evil has no place there. ::shrug::
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:56:07
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 07:11:18
We will go to the book of Judges. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHOSE TALKING!
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)
It's the angel that doing the talking correct? Notice what he says, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you: but ye have not obeyed my voice.
The angel has no covenant with Israel!
The angel is simply speaking for the Lord.
Remember in Exodus the 23rd chapter it states, "If thou shalt indeed obey his voice, whose voice?
The angel of the Lord. And do all that I speak then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."
Also remember what it said in Isaiah 63rd chapter, "they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."
I can see by this very post which tells you plainly two things: that angels are used to speak for God and also Holy Spirit is God and as a Person, can be vexed, become an enemy and fight against people.
You need to be careful that you do not vex Holy Spirit by your denials here. The truth is plain---even in your own post, yet you choose to remain blinded to it. I am praying against that.
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:26:26
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
Are you making this stuff up?
Where is this written?
No I don't make this stuff up. I tend to read the bible like a novel, a book here and a book there, which gives me an advantage of finding new discoveries on a regular basis.
It is as if by magic each time I read the same book, something new appears that before escaped me. It baffles me.
The scriptures say many things concerning the spirit of Christ and that how that he that has the Son has the Father also and that those who love Jesus he promises that he will come in and sup with them and his Father also.
so we have the spirit of Christ. But Christ spoke of another, a comforter. The holy ghost also testifies in scripture and scripture says the holy ghost speaks and says.
The power of the holy ghost and the power of Jesus name. Two different powers.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:48:05
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:56:07
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:52:10
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 07:11:18
We will go to the book of Judges. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHOSE TALKING!
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)
It's the angel that doing the talking correct? Notice what he says, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you: but ye have not obeyed my voice.
The angel has no covenant with Israel!
The angel is simply speaking for the Lord.
Remember in Exodus the 23rd chapter it states, "If thou shalt indeed obey his voice, whose voice?
The angel of the Lord. And do all that I speak then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."
Also remember what it said in Isaiah 63rd chapter, "they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."
I can see by this very post which tells you plainly two things: that angels are used to speak for God and also Holy Spirit is God and as a Person, can be vexed, become an enemy and fight against people.
You need to be careful that you do not vex Holy Spirit by your denials here. The truth is plain---even in your own post, yet you choose to remain blinded to it. I am praying against that.
I don't deny the HS
He exist as a HS and not as God the HS
: FireSword Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 17:23:46
: howard Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:26:26
: FireSword Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.
One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.
They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.
Are you making this stuff up?
Where is this written?
No I don't make this stuff up. I tend to read the bible like a novel, a book here and a book there, which gives me an advantage of finding new discoveries on a regular basis.
It is as if by magic each time I read the same book, something new appears that before escaped me. It baffles me.
The scriptures say many things concerning the spirit of Christ and that how that he that has the Son has the Father also and that those who love Jesus he promises that he will come in and sup with them and his Father also.
so we have the spirit of Christ. But Christ spoke of another, a comforter. The holy ghost also testifies in scripture and scripture says the holy ghost speaks and says.
The power of the holy ghost and the power of Jesus name. Two different powers.
I will take you for your word.
Is the HS God and if so show me
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
The word trinity is not found in God word.why did the RCC add to Gods's word
Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
The word GodHead is in God's word
Why has the Christian church ignored it
: MeMyself Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:46:32
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:43:19
Once again, God doesn't commit evil. If you cannot reconcile the fact that the word for 'evil' has different connotations and that literal evil is not found in God, then only He can help you.
The so-called 'evil' that God will send is disaster, retributive justice and judgment. That is only evil from the perspective of men. From God's perspective and those who know Him, it is righteous judgment and His perfect justice.
yeah..that is VERY troublesome to me that someone who think and speak these kinds of things about God.
Sin is of and from the Devil...evil as well. The Father is perfect, holy and just. Evil has no place there. ::shrug::
Sin is from the devil
Who created the devil?
Who controls the devil?
Who is calling the shots and telling Satan what to do?
God
God sends evil like he said he does.
It would do us all well if we knew how God operates?
Exodus 32:14 (KJV)
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
This don't need interpretation or put into some kinda context
It means what it says
Jesus sit on a throne
The Father sits on a throne
Where does God the Holy Ghost sits?
Do he have a throne?
Those who overcome will get to sit on thrones.
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
Notice we are reading God's words and we are not making up words and doctrine
Show me God the HS in the presence or throne room of God?
We read where Gabriel is in the presence of God
Let's red the chain of command again
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
We have the revelation of Jesus who is God
Which God the Father gave to Jesus
Who Jesus sent and signified it by his angel
We now know who the angel is
Gabrel
Notice who was left out
God the Holy Spirit
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
Hunh...so He's just an angel then to you.
Ok, thanks. ::tippinghat::
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 17:47:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:48:05
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:56:07
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
There are billions of angels, which are spirit creatures, and have specific roles. Then there is HOLY SPIRIT, the third Person of the Godhead.
At the nicene council held by the Mother church
They got it wrong and they passed it down to he child tr orthodox church and eventually to
Her grandchild the Protestant church.
Trinity is not in the bible meaning it was never mentioned by the prophets or apostles
At the council conducted by emperor Constitine the apostles or Israelites were not there
Paul said the answers or God is with the Israelites
Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
The Jews were not there, so where did these Gentiles get there truth from
Paul said that God left everything to Israel
Where did these Gentiles get the trinity doctrine from?
Remember these are Roman Catholic interpreting the word of God
I'm riding with the truth. The truth is there is no holy trinity
Paul said
Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:00:32
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
There are billions of angels, which are spirit creatures, and have specific roles. Then there is HOLY SPIRIT, the third Person of the Godhead.
::amen!::
and its just silly IMO to think Jesus had to go away so the Holy Spirit could come...if its justa buncha angels or even ONE; angels and Gabriel specifically, were already about. ::shrug::
Makes FAR more sense that He is God!
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:49:10
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
Hunh...so He's just an angel then to you.
Ok, thanks. ::tippinghat::
Yep
According to the bible the Comforter is Gabriel
He is not a member of the God head he is not part of a trinity
Thank you for taking the time to dialogue
This is why this lesson is in this section
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:04:22
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:00:32
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
There are billions of angels, which are spirit creatures, and have specific roles. Then there is HOLY SPIRIT, the third Person of the Godhead.
::amen!::
and its just silly IMO to think Jesus had to go away so the Holy Spirit could come...if its justa buncha angels or even ONE; angels and Gabriel specifically, were already about. ::shrug::
Makes FAR more sense that He is God!
Before you close your mind on me
Answer me this
When Jesus walked the earth as a man
Show me one time where the HS taught anyone?
Remember this HS could not come unless Jesus left
Bedore Jesus came in the flesh The HS came with the truth
You know Gabriel is Holy
You know Gabriel is a spirit
You know Gabreil appeared to
Samson family
Daniel
John the Baptist family
Mary
These are 1000 years apart
And you know the doctrine of trinity wa not taught until the 4th century by the RCC
This you know
All of you know this
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:58:23
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 17:47:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:48:05
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:56:07
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49
: howard Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!
1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:00:32
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
There are billions of angels, which are spirit creatures, and have specific roles. Then there is HOLY SPIRIT, the third Person of the Godhead.
You are correct
Each angel has a job to do
Gabriel brings the message
Micheal is the captain of the Lords host
In revelation we have 4 angels holding back the 4 winds
In revelation we have 7 Angels that blow a trumpet
In revelation w have 7 angels that pour vials of wrath
Each angel has a specific job
Compare Gabriel's job with that of the HS
There is a similarity
What gets me is the Protestants and evangelicals know that the trinity is. Roman Catholic doctrine
This should have raised a red flag
It did with me and when I investigated it
I knew it was wrong
The majority of Christianity is from the RCC
You all know this
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:25:31
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:00:32
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
There are billions of angels, which are spirit creatures, and have specific roles. Then there is HOLY SPIRIT, the third Person of the Godhead.
You are correct
Each angel has a job to do
Gabriel brings the message
Micheal is the captain of the Lords host
In revelation we have 4 angels holding back the 4 winds
In revelation we have 7 Angels that blow a trumpet
In revelation w have 7 angels that pour vials of wrath
Each angel has a specific job
Compare Gabriel's job with that of the HS
There is a similarity
How does Gabriel do this
Ephesians 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
How can he be given to everyone when he is only an angel? And, why didn't Paul just call him Gabriel?
Another translation says the Holy Spirit seals us...how would an angel do this?
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:32:06
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:25:31
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:00:32
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:47:43
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 19:00:04
who do you say the Holy Spirit is?
The HS
That brings the truth is Gabriel the angel/spirit
Gabriel fits the description in John
John 14:16-18,26 (KJV)
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Gabriel is not God
Gabrel is one of the Holy Spirits
Gabriel is that spirit who Jess sent to John
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Zechariah's
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Mary
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to Daniel
Gabriel is that spirit who Jesus sent to the Israelites
Gabrel is that spirit that stands in the presence of God
This we read!
There are billions of angels, which are spirit creatures, and have specific roles. Then there is HOLY SPIRIT, the third Person of the Godhead.
You are correct
Each angel has a job to do
Gabriel brings the message
Micheal is the captain of the Lords host
In revelation we have 4 angels holding back the 4 winds
In revelation we have 7 Angels that blow a trumpet
In revelation w have 7 angels that pour vials of wrath
Each angel has a specific job
Compare Gabriel's job with that of the HS
There is a similarity
How does Gabriel do this
Ephesians 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
How can he be given to everyone when he is only an angel? And, why didn't Paul just call him Gabriel?
Another translation says the Holy Spirit seals us...how would an angel do this?
We already talked about the different spirits in the bible
We have to be very careful when we come across the word
You quote Ephesians you are correct Gabriel or the Comforter would not fit
This HS would
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jesus said his words are spirit
Jesus is holy so his words are holy, making his words a holy spirit
Now replace the HS with the word in the Ephesians verse and see how much clearer the verse is
He gave the Ephesians his holy word or as Jesus calls his word Spirit
Let me ask you two some more question as I wait for you two to answer te previous ones
What spirit is this?
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
What is the spirit in our minds that should be renewed
Is this Gabriel or God the HS?
Let me show you silly
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Wha spirit of God is in our nostrils?
Gabriel
God the HS
Or another form of God's spirit
Sisters and brothers it's not silly to believe in what is written
When Jesus walked the earth as a man where was God the HS or Gabriel or by angel
Where was the comforter?
Jesus taught for 3.5 years
What would we need with the comforter when the Messiah was among men
Think about it and go back and read
The Comforter or Gabriel or God the HS was out of a job as long the Master ws here
Jesus taught Israel ad all that would listen
This is not taught in the church
Matthew 4:23 (KJV)
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Jesus taught
Is it silly that Gabriel said he stands in the presence of God?
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
It's funny or maybe it's sad that most Christians don't know where the Christianity we have today come from
It was the RCC who took over the church when the last apostle died and the Christians were fed to te lions
The founding Protestants were against the popes they were not against the RCC doctrine. They kept the doctrine
In Romans 11 Paul warn the RCC
Oh yea they were there ready to pounce on the truth
This is how they come up with the lie that Peter was te first Pope. Peter never went to Rome!
Go get you the history of the trinity books and tread for yourselves
You can't find it in the bible
Next do your research in the bible on te Godhead
We cannot have a Godhead and a trinity
Think about it.
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:20:49
LS
How can you say there is one God, When you know
That the Father is God he is one entity , you know the Son is God and He is one entity
That 2 right there
Then you say 3 persons
Your theory adds up to 4
1 God
3 persons
=
4
Your theory of one God cannot get passed the 1 chapter of Genesis
Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Let us
Our image
Is more than one
Proverb let's us know that we have 2
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
We have God and we have His Son
Nonsense. God is Three:
Father
Son
Holy Spirit, the Comforter, whom Jesus sent when He went to the Father---AS PROMISED!
Holy Spirit is not an angel, because angels are not omnipresent, which Holy Spirit is.
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:26:41
Let me ask you two some more question as I wait for you two to answer te previous ones
What spirit is this?
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
What is the spirit in our minds that should be renewed
Is this Gabriel or God the HS?
Let me show you silly
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Wha spirit of God is in our nostrils?
Gabriel
God the HS
Or another form of God's spirit
The spirit of the mind refers to the attitude we have.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:22:25
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:20:49
LS
How can you say there is one God, When you know
That the Father is God he is one entity , you know the Son is God and He is one entity
That 2 right there
Then you say 3 persons
Your theory adds up to 4
1 God
3 persons
=
4
Your theory of one God cannot get passed the 1 chapter of Genesis
Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Let us
Our image
Is more than one
Proverb let's us know that we have 2
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
We have God and we have His Son
Nonsense. God is Three:
Father
Son
Holy Spirit, the Comforter, whom Jesus sent when He went to the Father---AS PROMISED!
Holy Spirit is not an angel, because angels are not omnipresent, which Holy Spirit is.
::amen!::
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:15:17
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:32:06
How does Gabriel do this
Ephesians 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
How can he be given to everyone when he is only an angel? And, why didn't Paul just call him Gabriel?
Another translation says the Holy Spirit seals us...how would an angel do this?
We already talked about the different spirits in the bible
We have to be very careful when we come across the word
You quote Ephesians you are correct Gabriel or the Comforter would not fit
This HS would
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jesus said his words are spirit
Jesus is holy so his words are holy, making his words a holy spirit
Now replace the HS with the word in the Ephesians verse and see how much clearer the verse is
He gave the Ephesians his holy word or as Jesus calls his word Spirit
WHAT?!
Replace Holy Spirit with what word in the Ephesians verse?
Why would we be shifting and replacing ANY words from scripture...unless...its to keep our agendas in tact? ::pondering::
Jesus promised us THE Holy Spirit, not various angels flitting in and out of our lives depending upon our needs and their qualifications (people already had that. It is incomplete!)..believers have THE Holy Spirit, are sealed with Him and are confident that He will keep His promise to NEVER LEAVE or FORSAKE us.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:27:20
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:26:41
Let me ask you two some more question as I wait for you two to answer te previous ones
What spirit is this?
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
What is the spirit in our minds that should be renewed
Is this Gabriel or God the HS?
Let me show you silly
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Wha spirit of God is in our nostrils?
Gabriel
God the HS
Or another form of God's spirit
The spirit of the mind refers to the attitude we have.
Is it God?
And how is it a spirit?
If we use your theory every time we see the word spirit in the bible
We are looking at God the Holy Spirit
: MeMyself Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 10:01:27
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:15:17
: MeMyself Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:32:06
How does Gabriel do this
Ephesians 1:13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
How can he be given to everyone when he is only an angel? And, why didn't Paul just call him Gabriel?
Another translation says the Holy Spirit seals us...how would an angel do this?
We already talked about the different spirits in the bible
We have to be very careful when we come across the word
You quote Ephesians you are correct Gabriel or the Comforter would not fit
This HS would
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Jesus said his words are spirit
Jesus is holy so his words are holy, making his words a holy spirit
Now replace the HS with the word in the Ephesians verse and see how much clearer the verse is
He gave the Ephesians his holy word or as Jesus calls his word Spirit
WHAT?!
Replace Holy Spirit with what word in the Ephesians verse?
Why would we be shifting and replacing ANY words from scripture...unless...its to keep our agendas in tact? ::pondering::
Jesus promised us THE Holy Spirit, not various angels flitting in and out of our lives depending upon our needs and their qualifications (people already had that. It is incomplete!)..believers have THE Holy Spirit, are sealed with Him and are confident that He will keep His promise to NEVER LEAVE or FORSAKE us.
What did Jesus say here?
Why is this hard to understand?
What words of God is spirit
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
: howard Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 22:26:10
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:27:20
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:26:41
Let me ask you two some more question as I wait for you two to answer te previous ones
What spirit is this?
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
What is the spirit in our minds that should be renewed
Is this Gabriel or God the HS?
Let me show you silly
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Wha spirit of God is in our nostrils?
Gabriel
God the HS
Or another form of God's spirit
The spirit of the mind refers to the attitude we have.
Is it God?
And how is it a spirit?
If we use your theory every time we see the word spirit in the bible
We are looking at God the Holy Spirit
It isn't a spirit---it is an attitude. You have a problem in that every time you see the word 'spirit' in the bible, you think 'angel'! There are many different kinds of angels with different roles, and they are spirit creatures, and so is Satan, being an archangel, himself. Then there are his demonic followers, which are also spirit beings. Then we have God the Father, who is Spirit, and God the Son, who is a fully completed spirit with a glorified human body, like we will have when we are resurrected/translated, and then we have Holy Spirit, that Spirit of Christ, sent by God to dwell within the believer, and to do the work of Christ in and through His people. Now, to top it all off, another reference to throw you into a real spin---'spirit' referring to a person's attitude, mood, humour, nature, drift, tenor, gist, essence, sense, complexion, condition or character.
You have a lot of thinking to do. However, with Holy Spirit living in a person, one can instantly know exactly what meaning to go to whenever one encounters the word.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
The name of God has been hidden for centuries, we don't know the Fathers name, so how can we know the name of the holy spirit?
Even Jesus name is hidden. In revelation he is given a new name that no man knew but himself.
It could be that the name of Jesus/Yeshua/Yahshua is the name of His Father, since he came in his Fathers name.
That Fathers name could be Immanuel, or it could be Jesus. But Jesus is linked to the son of man and humanity, so maybe the Fathers name is Immanuel.
: Lively Stone Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 23:17:35
: howard Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 22:26:10
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:27:20
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:26:41
Let me ask you two some more question as I wait for you two to answer te previous ones
What spirit is this?
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
What is the spirit in our minds that should be renewed
Is this Gabriel or God the HS?
Let me show you silly
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Wha spirit of God is in our nostrils?
Gabriel
God the HS
Or another form of God's spirit
The spirit of the mind refers to the attitude we have.
Is it God?
And how is it a spirit?
If we use your theory every time we see the word spirit in the bible
We are looking at God the Holy Spirit
It isn't a spirit---it is an attitude. You have a problem in that every time you see the word 'spirit' in the bible, you think 'angel'! There are many different kinds of angels with different roles, and they are spirit creatures, and so is Satan, being an archangel, himself. Then there are his demonic followers, which are also spirit beings. Then we have God the Father, who is Spirit, and God the Son, who is a fully completed spirit with a glorified human body, like we will have when we are resurrected/translated, and then we have Holy Spirit, that Spirit of Christ, sent by God to dwell within the believer, and to do the work of Christ in and through His people. Now, to top it all off, another reference to throw you into a real spin---'spirit' referring to a person's attitude, mood, humour, nature, drift, tenor, gist, essence, sense, complexion, condition or character.
You have a lot of thinking to do. However, with Holy Spirit living in a person, one can instantly know exactly what meaning to go to whenever one encounters the word.
Your wrong LS
When Inseebe word spirit in the bible it could mean many things
Jesus
The Father
Words
Breath
Thoughts
Angels
Strength
What we have here is your refusals to except that the Trinity doctrine is a RCC concoction.
You can't find God the Holy spirit in the bible
You sat there is one God but we all know that there is a God the Father and God the Son which makes two
You say that God is in 3 person which=4
What you present is confusion
There was no such thing as a trinity until the 4th century
What is a spirit is what you need to first understand
Thoughts you cannot see
Words you cannot see
If Jesus wants you cannot see him
The Father no man has never seen
The angel if he wants you cannot see
Get my point
What does a spirit or Ghost have in common?
You can't see them if they want
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:22:25
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:20:49
LS
How can you say there is one God, When you know
That the Father is God he is one entity , you know the Son is God and He is one entity
That 2 right there
Then you say 3 persons
Your theory adds up to 4
1 God
3 persons
=
4
Your theory of one God cannot get passed the 1 chapter of Genesis
Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Let us
Our image
Is more than one
Proverb let's us know that we have 2
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
We have God and we have His Son
Nonsense. God is Three:
Father
Son
Holy Spirit, the Comforter, whom Jesus sent when He went to the Father---AS PROMISED!
Holy Spirit is not an angel, because angels are not omnipresent, which Holy Spirit is.
Where is it written that the HS is omnipresence?
The angels who did not follow Satan are Holy and they are spirit
Who is this HS tht Israel vexed?
Be very careful how you answer I have the answer showing it was a angel
Which I gonna put.
Isaiah 63:10 (KJV)
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)
This is why the Lord told us to rightly divide the scripture
God calls his angels Holy spirits and you dare say they are not
Shame on you
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
Let's look at the spirit that is also called the thoughts of our mind
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. (Psalm 51:6)
Yeah, sisters and brothers the Lord desires truth in the inward parts. After obtaining the truth which is the Word of God, wisdom will follow. Note what David says in the 10th verse.
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. (Psalm 51:10)
Note what David states; "renew a right spirit within me." Once we have this renewed spirit what
will happen?
Let's skip to the 13th verse.
Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. (Psalm 51:13)
Once we have renewed our spirit, or renewed the thoughts of our mind, not being a forgetful hearer, but actually walking in the Lords commandments, we will be able to teach transgressors the ways of the Lord and they will be converted unto Him. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:55:53
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:16:06
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:15:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:55:53
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:20:57
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:15:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:55:53
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:17:38
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:16:06
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
thank you all,
Especially LS and MeMY, for not getting sensitive on this subject and taking the time to express their reasoning
Let's switch gears and start our fellowshipping all over again
For centuries people have debated about the Godhead; how many members are there?
Some say there are 3 members of the Godhead, some say there is only 1, but according to the King James Version of the Holy Bible (The Word of God), there are 2 members of the Godhead:
The Father and The Son.
Angels are not God and therefore are not part of the Godhead.
Angels are ministering spirits (another word used for spirit is ghost) and those that didn't follow Satan are Holy Angels (Spirits).
The Angels (Ghosts/Spirits) be they good or evil, serve GOD: they are not equal with GOD. (Hebrews 1:13-14)
There are only 2 types of beings in existence:
SPIRIT (Heavenly Beings)
God (Jesus and the Father)
The Angels (All of them)
SOUL (Flesh and Blood Beings)
Man (Humans)
Beasts, Insects, & Everything in the waters
LET'S DEFINE A FEW WORDS:
God:
1. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people.
2. One that is worshiped or idealized as a god.
3. GOD. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic (the belief in one GOD) religions.
Head: 1. To be chief of, command, foremost in importance. 2. To assume or be placed in the first position.
Hood: 1. The state, condition, or quality of being. manhood. 2. All the members of a grouping of a specified nature: neighborhood, family, MAN, etc. (one body with more than one member).
Godhead: 1. Divinity. 2. The essential and divine nature of God.
Godhood: The state or quality of being a god; divinity.
minister: A person serving as an agent for another by carrying out specified orders.
Spirit: The Holy Ghost, a supernatural being.
The following is a verse used to support there being 3 members of the Godhead:
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
The Father - 1
The Word (Jesus, the Son of God) -2
The Holy Ghost (Holy Angel) –3
The Holy Ghost, The Comforter, The Spirit of Truth, and The angel of God's Presence is the angel Gabriel who took over Satan's job when iniquity was found in him.
(St. John 14:15-26, Isaiah 63:7-10)
Yes, Gabriel bears record in heaven but he is not God; neither is he a part of the Godhead.
To be one is to have the same mindset.
To be full of the holy ghost is to be full of the Word of God.
Let's take a look at the protocol of God:
Revelation 1:1-2
1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
God's Protocol (order of things)
God (The Father) gives the message to the son,
God (Jesus Christ) gives the message to the angel
Angel gives the message to the Children of Israel
Servant (The Children of Israel) give the message to
the rest of the sons of Adam:
This is what the Children of Israel are chosen to do.
Israel are the People CHOSEN to teach the rest of the Sons of Adam the Word of God.
: FireSword Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:34:52
The name of God has been hidden for centuries, we don't know the Fathers name, so how can we know the name of the holy spirit?
Even Jesus name is hidden. In revelation he is given a new name that no man knew but himself.
It could be that the name of Jesus/Yeshua/Yahshua is the name of His Father, since he came in his Fathers name.
That Fathers name could be Immanuel, or it could be Jesus. But Jesus is linked to the son of man and humanity, so maybe the Fathers name is Immanuel.
Nice post!
It is as simple as you have made it
Go to the OT and get all the names of God, not titles but names
Write them down
Go to te NT get al the names of God and write them down
You will come up with the name of Both Gods
Write down all the names of the angels in the bible and you will come up
With the name of the Holy Spirit who brings the truth
Nice catch on the fact Jesus came in the name of the Father
Also I had forgot the name of Emmanuel
Nice post
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:30:56
: Lively Stone Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 23:17:35
: howard Mon Jul 09, 2012 - 22:26:10
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:27:20
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 21:26:41
Let me ask you two some more question as I wait for you two to answer te previous ones
What spirit is this?
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; [24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
What is the spirit in our minds that should be renewed
Is this Gabriel or God the HS?
Let me show you silly
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Wha spirit of God is in our nostrils?
Gabriel
God the HS
Or another form of God's spirit
The spirit of the mind refers to the attitude we have.
Is it God?
And how is it a spirit?
If we use your theory every time we see the word spirit in the bible
We are looking at God the Holy Spirit
It isn't a spirit---it is an attitude. You have a problem in that every time you see the word 'spirit' in the bible, you think 'angel'! There are many different kinds of angels with different roles, and they are spirit creatures, and so is Satan, being an archangel, himself. Then there are his demonic followers, which are also spirit beings. Then we have God the Father, who is Spirit, and God the Son, who is a fully completed spirit with a glorified human body, like we will have when we are resurrected/translated, and then we have Holy Spirit, that Spirit of Christ, sent by God to dwell within the believer, and to do the work of Christ in and through His people. Now, to top it all off, another reference to throw you into a real spin---'spirit' referring to a person's attitude, mood, humour, nature, drift, tenor, gist, essence, sense, complexion, condition or character.
You have a lot of thinking to do. However, with Holy Spirit living in a person, one can instantly know exactly what meaning to go to whenever one encounters the word.
Your wrong LS
When Inseebe word spirit in the bible it could mean many things
What is 'inseebe'?
Jesus
The Father
Words
Breath
Thoughts
Angels
Strength
What we have here is your refusals to except that the Trinity doctrine is a RCC concoction.
You can't find God the Holy spirit in the bible
You sat there is one God but we all know that there is a God the Father and God the Son which makes two
You say that God is in 3 person which=4
What you present is confusion
I am not the one who is confused. The bible doesn't have the word 'pancreas', but we know that the Lord created it.
Where you get 4 is beyond me! Father, Son, Holy Spirit is THREE.
There was no such thing as a trinity until the 4th century
It is a revelation of God you need, for Holy Spirit has been forever.
What is a spirit is what you need to first understand
Thoughts you cannot see
Words you cannot see
If Jesus wants you cannot see him
The Father no man has never seen
The angel if he wants you cannot see
Get my point
What does a spirit or Ghost have in common?
You can't see them if they want
This is pretty convoluted stuff, howie. You need to get it together.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:52:44
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:22:25
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 20:20:49
LS
How can you say there is one God, When you know
That the Father is God he is one entity , you know the Son is God and He is one entity
That 2 right there
Then you say 3 persons
Your theory adds up to 4
1 God
3 persons
=
4
Your theory of one God cannot get passed the 1 chapter of Genesis
Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Let us
Our image
Is more than one
Proverb let's us know that we have 2
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
We have God and we have His Son
Nonsense. God is Three:
Father
Son
Holy Spirit, the Comforter, whom Jesus sent when He went to the Father---AS PROMISED!
Holy Spirit is not an angel, because angels are not omnipresent, which Holy Spirit is.
Where is it written that the HS is omnipresence?
The angels who did not follow Satan are Holy and they are spirit
Who is this HS tht Israel vexed?
Be very careful how you answer I have the answer showing it was a angel
Which I gonna put.
Isaiah 63:10 (KJV)
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)
This is why the Lord told us to rightly divide the scripture
God calls his angels Holy spirits and you dare say they are not
Shame on you
Yeah, angels are spirits and they are holy, but they are not called Holy Spirit.
The shame you want to throw on everyone is upon you that you cannot decipher this truth.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:16:06
: MeMyself Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:47:33
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 17:40:32
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 10:23:24
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 06:07:58
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 22:18:03
: howard Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 18:23:56
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.
And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)
We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.
Gabriel is not God
Gabreil is a Holy Spirit
Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter
Gabriel is a powerful archangel of God---among billions. His name is Gabriel---not Comforter, which is the name of Holy Spirit. Gabriel's role is not one of comfort, but of delivering messages concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ, to men.
Comforter is a title, it is not a name
When Gabriel was sent to Mary with this message were these comfortable words to you 2000 years later
Luke 1:28-35,38 (KJV)
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] And when she saw him , she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. [31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: [33] And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. [38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
Even though part of this prophecy is fulfilled they are comfortable spoken of all over the world
What do you think 'title' means? Don't even begin to think you can mince words about this, Howie! Holy Spirit is known as Comforter.
God's message to the world about Jesus, no matter who He used to convey it, is a message of great hope and comfort. You cannot identify the angel Gabriel as anything other than what God has said he is.
Well the bible says different
And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
: howard Tue Jul 10, 2012 - 18:35:36
thank you all,
Especially LS and MeMY, for not getting sensitive on this subject and taking the time to express their reasoning
Let's switch gears and start our fellowshipping all over again
For centuries people have debated about the Godhead; how many members are there?
Some say there are 3 members of the Godhead, some say there is only 1, but according to the King James Version of the Holy Bible (The Word of God), there are 2 members of the Godhead:
The Father and The Son.
Oh! Oh! Oh! Let me answer! (http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Animated/aaapickme.gif)
Three.
Angels are not God and therefore are not part of the Godhead.
Angels are ministering spirits (another word used for spirit is ghost) and those that didn't follow Satan are Holy Angels (Spirits).
The Angels (Ghosts/Spirits) be they good or evil, serve GOD: they are not equal with GOD. (Hebrews 1:13-14)
Phew! I am so glad you make at least that distinction.
These are used to support there being 1 member of the Godhead:
Matthew 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
While Jesus was in the flesh he was not God (in SPIRIT) because he was made like unto corruptible man.
When he was resurrected and became a SPIRIT again he returned to where he came from which is Heaven
When you begin to know the truth through learning you will see, hear, taste and feel the words Jesus speaks unto you through the Word of God.
Let's begin to read or shall we say re-add (re-collect) what we have forgotten over time.
Jesus said I and my Father are one.
This means that they are united in an agreement: they have one mind, two but still ONE.
(John 10:30, 17:11, 21-24.
Revelation 1:1,
Acts 10:36-43,
John 16:15, 17:8-11, 14:24, 9:4, 6:38-40)
Just as a family is one but has more than 1 member, so it is with the Godhead (One FAMILY with more than 1 member)
At the present there are 2 members of the Godhead, The Father and Jesus, no one else.
JESUS CHRIST SAID "I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 21:09:36
These are used to support there being 1 member of the Godhead:
Matthew 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
While Jesus was in the flesh he was not God (in SPIRIT) because he was made like unto corruptible man.
When he was resurrected and became a SPIRIT again he returned to where he came from which is Heaven
When you begin to know the truth through learning you will see, hear, taste and feel the words Jesus speaks unto you through the Word of God.
Let's begin to read or shall we say re-add (re-collect) what we have forgotten over time.
Jesus said I and my Father are one.
This means that they are united in an agreement: they have one mind, two but still ONE.
(John 10:30, 17:11, 21-24.
Revelation 1:1,
Acts 10:36-43,
John 16:15, 17:8-11, 14:24, 9:4, 6:38-40)
Howard do you believe Jesus pre-existed?
Just as a family is one but has more than 1 member, so it is with the Godhead (One FAMILY with more than 1 member)
At the present there are 2 members of the Godhead, The Father and Jesus, no one else.
JESUS CHRIST SAID "I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 21:51:36
Just as a family is one but has more than 1 member, so it is with the Godhead (One FAMILY with more than 1 member)
At the present there are 2 members of the Godhead, The Father and Jesus, no one else.
JESUS CHRIST SAID "I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME
: Clarity Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 22:07:45
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 21:51:36
Just as a family is one but has more than 1 member, so it is with the Godhead (One FAMILY with more than 1 member)
At the present there are 2 members of the Godhead, The Father and Jesus, no one else.
JESUS CHRIST SAID "I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME
JOHN 17:1-8, 17-23
1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
COLOSSIANS 2:8-10
8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
ROMANS 1:18-23
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 22:14:43
: Clarity Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 22:07:45
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 21:51:36
Just as a family is one but has more than 1 member, so it is with the Godhead (One FAMILY with more than 1 member)
At the present there are 2 members of the Godhead, The Father and Jesus, no one else.
JESUS CHRIST SAID "I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME
: Clarity Thu Jul 12, 2012 - 01:32:16
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 22:14:43
: Clarity Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 22:07:45
: howard Wed Jul 11, 2012 - 21:51:36
Just as a family is one but has more than 1 member, so it is with the Godhead (One FAMILY with more than 1 member)
At the present there are 2 members of the Godhead, The Father and Jesus, no one else.
JESUS CHRIST SAID "I HAVE MANIFESTED THY NAME
"MY LORD AND MY GOD"
This statement was made by one of Jesus disciples named Thomas.
The power of this statement blows by the average Christian like a jumbo jet.
It was made after Jesus had been raised from the grave after his death on the cross.
John 20:19" Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Did-y-mus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, we have seen the Lord. But he saith unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and trust my hand into his side, I will not believe." Now that's a reasonable statement Thomas made, saying he'll believe it when he sees it.
26 "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." Then Thomas made one of the most over looked statements in the bible, when he said unto Jesus
28 "MY LORD AND MY GOD". Jesus after his resurrection from the dead was returning to his former glory, God.
John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
Yes, with thee before the world was.
That's why after Jesus was raised from the dead he made this statement.
Mat. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." It's hard for some people to understand that Jesus came through the Virgin Mary in the flesh, but he has always existed as a spirit being.
let's start in Genesis, because that's where the one who became known as Jesus can be seen first.
Gen. 1:1 It said that; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
But
John 1
1 in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; (the Word) and without him was not any thing made that was made.
10 He was in the world and the world was made by him.
So who created the world, was it God? Was it the Word (Jesus)? Yes!
They are one in the same
14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father,) full of grace and truth.
Yes the WORD that was in the beginning with God, was God and was made flesh and dwelt among man.
That's why Jesus said give me the glory I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, that was in the beginning.
: howard Sun Jul 15, 2012 - 08:25:06
let's start in Genesis, because that's where the one who became known as Jesus can be seen first.
Gen. 1:1 It said that; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
But
John 1
1 in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; (the Word) and without him was not any thing made that was made.
10 He was in the world and the world was made by him.
So who created the world, was it God? Was it the Word (Jesus)? Yes!
They are one in the same
14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father,) full of grace and truth.
Yes the WORD that was in the beginning with God, was God and was made flesh and dwelt among man.
That's why Jesus said give me the glory I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, that was in the beginning.
This is the standand Trinaterian answer to this passage.
Would you like to know the truth?
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
Yes...and they BOTH say THEY have the truth, but their truth doesn't agree! ::giggle::
: MeMyself Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:05:31
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
Yes...and they BOTH say THEY have the truth, but their truth doesn't agree! ::giggle::
They cancel out each other. Now let's have a real discussion!
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Listen%20to%20me/judgejudy.gif)
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
There is no beginning of time if you are speaking to the existence of God.
God has no beginning
Jesus has a begninning
One is the Father the other the firstborn creature from the dead.
I am not sure what Howard believes but I shall find out.
Clarity
: ScottyB Sun Jul 01, 2012 - 18:02:35
The Godhead is the image of the "Us" (Elohim; is distinctly plural, and definitely TWO; no more no less)
And the Godhead is the Doctrine of the Father and the Son.
That's why churchianity (modern Babylon; the mother of all harlots) has lifted up the idol of the Trinity, to hide the face of the Godhead and instead establish their own authority.
Here is the image of God that God created man(kind) in:
Just as Christ came forth from God
Eve came forth from Adam.
That is WHY God is the HEAD of Christ,
and Adam (man) is the head of woman.
That is also WHY a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man in the church - it creates a false image of God (is Christ the Head of God?)
False images of God create confusion, disorder and chaos, and is of the darkness.
Believe it or not, it is the truth.
Sorry, I'm just now seeing this thread.. I agree with you two though. I don't believe the Spirit is a
distinct person in the Godhead as the RCC teaches, but the breath (the very life) of God. I believe God the Father and His Son are two distinct yet inseparable persons. They are one in Spirit. I believe the Father is the only unbegotten God, and the Son is begotten of Him (not created) and rightfully shares in all His glory. We worship His Son because it is the Father's will that we do so, He deserves all glory and praise!
I love how you brought up the Son coming forth from the Father just as man (male and female) were created in
their image... Eve coming out of Adam. I had that epiphany one night while reading Genesis several years ago. Very cool.
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 00:39:05
: ScottyB Sun Jul 01, 2012 - 18:02:35
The Godhead is the image of the "Us" (Elohim; is distinctly plural, and definitely TWO; no more no less)
And the Godhead is the Doctrine of the Father and the Son.
That's why churchianity (modern Babylon; the mother of all harlots) has lifted up the idol of the Trinity, to hide the face of the Godhead and instead establish their own authority.
Here is the image of God that God created man(kind) in:
Just as Christ came forth from God
Eve came forth from Adam.
That is WHY God is the HEAD of Christ,
and Adam (man) is the head of woman.
That is also WHY a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man in the church - it creates a false image of God (is Christ the Head of God?)
False images of God create confusion, disorder and chaos, and is of the darkness.
Believe it or not, it is the truth.
Sorry, I'm just now seeing this thread.. I agree with you two though. I don't believe the Spirit is a distinct person in the Godhead as the RCC teaches, but the breath (the very life) of God. I believe God the Father and His Son are two distinct yet inseparable persons. They are one in Spirit. I believe the Father is the only unbegotten God, and the Son is begotten of Him (not created) and rightfully shares in all His glory. We worship His Son because it is the Father's will that we do so, He deserves all glory and praise!
If you had placed (created) in brakets you would be very close to the truth.
"Firstborn of every creature" Whether he was begtton of the Flesh by his mother or beggotten of his Father by the Spirit in both cases he is a created being.
The firstborn of many Sons!
Sorry I should support with quote"
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the
*manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)
*Christ included
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 00:29:08
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
There is no beginning of time if you are speaking to the existence of God.
God has no beginning
Jesus has a begninning
One is the Father the other the firstborn creature from the dead.
I am not sure what Howard believes but I shall find out.
Clarity
The Son has always been with the Father, even though Jesus stepped into history briefly and returned to the Father.
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 00:53:25
If you had placed (created) in brakets you would be very close to the truth.
"Firstborn of every creature" Whether he was begtton of the Flesh by his mother or beggotten of his Father by the Spirit in both cases he is a created being.
The firstborn of many Sons!
Sorry I should support with quote"
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the *manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)
*Christ included
Thank you for your reply. It is my personal belief that Jesus is the
firstborn in two ways.. in preeminence and in begettal. I say "not created" because I believe He is
God begotten of God. That sounds confusing at first but I appreciate what Justin Martyr says:
"I shall give you another testimony, my friends," said I, "from the Scriptures, that God
begat before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding]
from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now
the Glory of the Lord, now
the Son, again
Wisdom, again an
Angel, then
God, and then
Lord and
Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father's will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter, will bear evidence to me, when He speaks by Solomon the following: 'If I shall declare to you what happens daily, I shall call to mind events from everlasting, and review them. The Lord made me
the beginning of His ways for His works........"
This just makes good sense to me and line's up well with what I read in the Scriptures. We see the relationship between the Father and His Son all through the word, but never do we see an intimacy of the two with a
third person. The Son lives because of the Father, not the other way around.. there is only one unbegotten God, but from His own person came the Beloved. That cannot be said about the creature, for everything that was
made was made through the Son of God, by the word of His power, either out of nothing or out of existing material. Without Him no
created thing came into existence. (John 1) This says to me that God's Son is not created, He is not made.. He alone proceeded forth from the Father's own substance... so to speak. We follow Him in a sense since we are begotten of God as sons upon salvation, and added to His family. I guess in that sense too He would rightly be called the firstborn.
Oddly enough, the RCC holds Justin Martyr as an ECF even though he doesn't appear to believe God is three persons in one... the doctrine we know now as the Trinity. He even talks about the Spirit being none other than the Son Himself... not a third person. There's much I disagree with him about, but I'm with him on the difference between being a creature and being God- begotten of the Father.
Thank you for your reply and the kind spirit with which it was written.
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 03:25:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 00:53:25
If you had placed (created) in brackets you would be very close to the truth.
"Firstborn of every creature" Whether he was begtton of the Flesh by his mother or beggotten of his Father by the Spirit in both cases he is a created being.
The firstborn of many Sons!
Sorry I should support with quote"
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the *manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)
*Christ included
Thank you for your reply. It is my personal belief that Jesus is the firstborn in two ways.. in preeminence and in begettal. I say "not created" because I believe He is God begotten of God. That sounds confusing at first but I appreciate what Justin Martyr says:
"I shall give you another testimony, my friends," said I, "from the Scriptures, that God begat before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos; and on another occasion He calls Himself Captain, when He appeared in human form to Joshua the son of Nave (Nun). For He can be called by all those names, since He ministers to the Father's will, and since He was begotten of the Father by an act of will; just as we see happening among ourselves: for when we give out some word, we beget the word; yet not by abscission, so as to lessen the word [which remains] in us, when we give it out: and just as we see also happening in the case of a fire, which is not lessened when it has kindled [another], but remains the same; and that which has been kindled by it likewise appears to exist by itself, not diminishing that from which it was kindled. The Word of Wisdom, who is Himself this God begotten of the Father of all things, and Word, and Wisdom, and Power, and the Glory of the Begetter, will bear evidence to me, when He speaks by Solomon the following: 'If I shall declare to you what happens daily, I shall call to mind events from everlasting, and review them. The Lord made me the beginning of His ways for His works........"
Its a shame none of the above is based on Scripture or is it supported with Scripture. You must agree for in both claims the evidence is set before us.
I am unable to comment (said without sarcasm) for I would be speaking to the thoughts of a man, an expert but nonetheless a fallible man.
This just makes good sense to me and line's up well with what I read in the Scriptures.
This is your first mistake recorded - Read man and then read Scripture - common mistake made by modern day Christians.
We see the relationship between the Father and His Son all through the word, but never do we see an intimacy of the two with a third person.
The HS is the power of God in its various manifestations - you cannot have intimacy with something innate. Well you can try as some do foolishly.
The Son lives because of the Father,
True
not the other way around..
Well said
there is only one unbegotten God, but from His own person came the Beloved.
True God cannot be born only Sons!
That cannot be said about the creature, for everything that was made was made through the Son of God, by the word of His power, either out of nothing or out of existing material.
Here is where you stray - everything has been made on account of the Son i.e for him, by him, with him in mind, and not him only but many Sons.
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the
manifestation of the sons of God. (Romans 8:19)
Without Him no created thing came into existence. (John 1)
True in a sense because Christ was the very first imagined (Logos) Son for this creation in a real way God would not have begun this work without first considering His firstborn.
This says to me that God's Son is not created, He is not made..
If you cannot see the many Sons within the same Logos you are yet to see a far deeper and more meaningful understanding of Johns Epistle and his opening remarks.
For as many as are
led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:14)
Was Jesus led by the Spirit?
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in
bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. (Hebrews 2:10)
Those Son's will share the same Glory and Christ (Logos) and take part in the same eternal nature as he. If the Captain was made perfect through suffering isnt his soldiers in like manner?
He alone proceeded forth from the Father's own substance... so to speak.
And yet the same can be said of His many Sons.
Whatever you attribute to Christ you must also include all the redeemed - - this you can never escape - - you can try and run from it but it will always catch up to you, should you read the Word.
I can see you are yet to comprehend John 17 - no doubt if you continue we shall find our way there.
We follow Him in a sense since we are begotten of God as sons upon salvation, and added to His family.
See how you were almost there but you couldn't bring yourself to enter the Word fully!
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (Romans 8:16)
But you are saying this Spirit is not the same Spirit which caused Christ to be His Son? So what you must believe in God (Yahweh) separates His Children - sets Christ in one corner with one Spirit and the other Children elsewhere with different Spirit.
Is this what you believe?
I guess in that sense too He would rightly be called the firstborn.
How ironic - your conclusion has brought to realise it's impossible for Jesus to be God, if as you say you share in the "Firstborn" by faith.
Now expand your mind to see how Logos speaks to many sons not One!
Clarity
It appears we have undone 19 pages of greek theology in one post.
The truth operates like this you know. ::nodding::
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
It appears we have undone 19 pages of greek theology in one post.
The truth operates like this you know. ::nodding::
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
: Bitter Sweet Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:00:31
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
It appears we have undone 19 pages of greek theology in one post.
The truth operates like this you know. ::nodding::
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
Yes - the solution you rightly state!
Answer: Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:08:40
: Bitter Sweet Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:00:31
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
It appears we have undone 19 pages of greek theology in one post.
The truth operates like this you know. ::nodding::
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
Yes - the solution you rightly state!
Answer: Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
The trinity thing reminds me of the verse, can't find it, about metaphors being for unbelievers. It's as if people are trying to make something out of a metaphor and turning it into a symbol but in this case it's worse because it's an entire doctrine.
: Bitter Sweet Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:00:31
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
It appears we have undone 19 pages of greek theology in one post.
The truth operates like this you know. ::nodding::
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
What do you know about it?
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
Ahhh! Some sanity! ::clappingoverhead::
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:59:12
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
Ahhh! Some sanity! ::clappingoverhead::
::clappingoverhead::
::amen!::
THANK you, ChristNU!
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
According to trinitarianism, is the Holy Spirit
also begotten? Or is he the Begetter? Since he is called a third
person in the Godhead, why is there no mention of intimacy between himself and the other members of this trinity? The relationship of the Father with His Son is evident throughout the Bible, but I cannot see one place where the Holy Spirit is said to have this relationship with the two. Persons have relationships. Therefore I believe the Holy Spirit is the life/breath of God.. not a distinct person.
Also, man (male and female) was made in the image of God (the Father and Son)... Eve came forth from Adam in time, even as the Son came forth from the Father in eternity. Where is the likeness of this third "person" displayed in the relationship of man and woman? I believe it's in their unity.. because they shared in the same flesh, the two (not three) were one, God called them "man" just as the Father and Son are one Spirit, one breath, of one substance and are rightly called God.
Another thing that fascinates me is how God made procreation to mimic the creation process.. It is through the woman (who came out of man) that man brings forth offspring. Just as through the Son (who came out of the Father) GOD brought everything into existence. In this way also I believe man was made in the likeness of God.
: Bitter Sweet Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:00:31
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
It appears we have undone 19 pages of greek theology in one post.
The truth operates like this you know. ::nodding::
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Sticking to God's word. ::thumbup::
So bittersweet, do you not believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy spirit? These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldnt be here.Its 100% Biblical.
An Adaptation of The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references as it is based on the Bible):
We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)
In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)
We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)
: chosenone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:54:22
These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldnt be here.Its 100% Biblical.
So then why do they have a non-traditional theology forum if they don't allow people with non-traditional views? The Nicene Creed is traditional and those who don't adhere to all aspects of it post on this "NT" forum.
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 17:20:47
: chosenone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:54:22
These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldnt be here.Its 100% Biblical.
So then why do they have a non-traditional theology forum if they don't allow people with non-traditional views? The Nicene Creed is traditional and those who don't adhere to all aspects of it post on this "NT" forum.
Thank You for posting this and asking this question. I look forward to Chosenone's response.
Chosenone, I do believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe in the Holy Spirit, I just don't believe in the trinity doctrine that the Orthodox and Catholic church created. Trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible and I just like to stick the words in the bible, no need to add any of man's words. ::thumbup:: Is there any rule against sticking to only God's word?
I just noticed, I don't see the word trinity mentioned in the rules either.
Chosenone, we have a self proclaimed Atheist on this board, Victor. I've never seen you tell him this once. Is there any reason why you are questioning my faith and being on this board instead of one that openly admits to being an Atheist?
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
This argument from silence is dragged out when one has exhausted the Word...dissapointing ChristNU you present such a baseless argument so soon into the discussion.
God has many Son's ...Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
(Mat 26:53)
They are all the Sons of God.
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 19:29:00
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
This argument from silence is dragged out when one has exhausted the Word...dissapointing ChristNU you present such a baseless argument so soon into the discussion.
God has many Son's ...Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
(Mat 26:53)
They are all the Sons of God.
They who? The ANGELS are sons of God?
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 19:29:00
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
This argument from silence is dragged out when one has exhausted the Word...dissapointing ChristNU you present such a baseless argument so soon into the discussion.
God has many Son's ...Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
(Mat 26:53)
They are all the Sons of God.
God has one Son---Jesus, and through Him, He has many sons and daughters.
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
The HS in us is God's word and the breath of life
I showed this to you an whoever read this topic
Le me ask you this
What or who is this spirit leading Jesus?
Matthew 4:1 (KJV)
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
: MeMyself Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:05:31
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
Yes...and they BOTH say THEY have the truth, but their truth doesn't agree! ::giggle::
Agree to what?
Your theories
I ask all of you to show me God the holy Ghost and no one has done it
: Lively Stone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:59:12
: ChristNU Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 06:54:20
: Clarity Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 05:49:10
Re: The Trinity, Fact or Fiction?
Answer: Fiction
Your understanding of "begotten" is simply wrong, and as a result all that you build upon that wrong premise is wrong also.
For the Father to be the Father requires the Son, and for the Son to be Son requires the Father. The Father has always been Father God, and the eternal Son has never not been the Son of God. The word "begotten" does not mean that the Son was created and made by the Father out of nothing. To the contrary, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal and underived Deity.
What God begets is God. Jesus is the ONLY "begotten", not created, Son of God...God of God.
Ahhh! Some sanity! ::clappingoverhead::
The. Father is God
The Son is God
Where does it say the HG is God
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 20:47:43
: MeMyself Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:05:31
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
Yes...and they BOTH say THEY have the truth, but their truth doesn't agree! ::giggle::
Agree to what?
Your theories
No. Let me say it again. YOU say you have truth. Clarity says HE has truth. BUT! The truth you BOTH say you have does not agree with the others. ::giggle::
Psalm 110:1 (KJV)
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
David's Lord said unto his Lord
We have two Lords
One Lord sits on the right hand of the other Lord
: MeMyself Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 20:55:05
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 20:47:43
: MeMyself Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:05:31
: chosenone Mon Jul 16, 2012 - 23:03:12
So let me get this straight.
Howard doesnt believe that The Holy Spirit, who is in us, is God, and clarity doesnt believe that Jesus is God, or that He always was with God from the beginning of time. Is that about right?
Yes...and they BOTH say THEY have the truth, but their truth doesn't agree! ::giggle::
Agree to what?
Your theories
No. Let me say it again. YOU say you have truth. Clarity says HE has truth. BUT! The truth you BOTH say you have does not agree with the others. ::giggle::
And you have the truth?
Yet where is God the Holy Ghost written at in the bible?
We can read where the Father is God
We can read where the Son is God
Yet for some strange reason we can't read where the HS is GOD
is this true?
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 21:02:56
And you have the truth?
yep. ::smile::
Revelation 5:1,3,5-7 (KJV)
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
[3] And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
We have Jesus and we have the one who sit on the throne
Where is the third God at?
Here is truth
Trinity is not written in God's word
Fact
God the Holy ghost or holy spirit is not written in God's word
Fact
The trinity doctrine was established in the 4th century by emperor Constantine
Fact
The RCC convened that council
Fact
The Orthodox adopted all or most of the RCC doctrine even the trinity doctrine
Fact
The Protestants adopted all of the RCC doctrine even the trinity the protest was not about doctrine
FACT
God the HS is absent from the Godhead, throne room of God and he has no throne to sit on
Fact
Where is the truth you claim to have?
The Holy Spirit as God is a deduction.
The Trinity is a concept based on deduction.
: HRoberson Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 21:35:26
The Holy Spirit as God is a deduction.
The Trinity is a concept based on deduction.
Where is this written ?
Where is the three?
One god in 3=4
One God
We have the God the Father
We have God the Son
2
Now Ifyou were to find God the HS, we now have 3
But the doctrine calls for one God
The dogma of the Trinity
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.
Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm)
The dogma of the Trinity
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.
Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.
In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom (To Autolycus II.15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian (On Pudicity 21). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:
There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P.G., X, 986).
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 22:27:07
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm)
The dogma of the Trinity
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.
Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.
In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom (To Autolycus II.15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian (On Pudicity 21). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:
There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P.G., X, 986).
Sadly all lies forumulated and designed in Romanist councils.
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 21:28:31
Here is truth
Trinity is not written in God's word
Fact
God the Holy ghost or holy spirit is not written in God's word
Fact
The trinity doctrine was established in the 4th century by emperor Constantine
Fact
The RCC convened that council
Fact
The Orthodox adopted all or most of the RCC doctrine even the trinity doctrine
Fact
The Protestants adopted all of the RCC doctrine even the trinity the protest was not about doctrine
FACT
God the HS is absent from the Godhead, throne room of God and he has no throne to sit on
Fact
Where is the truth you claim to have?
Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.If God the Father was not also God the Son, and also God the Holy Spirit, then this instruction would be heresy.
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 21:28:31
Written by Howard
Here is truth
Trinity is not written in God's word
FACT
God the Holy ghost or holy spirit is not written in God's word
FACT
The trinity doctrine was established in the 4th century by emperor Constantine
FACT
The RCC convened that council
FACT
The Orthodox adopted all or most of the RCC doctrine even the trinity doctrine
FACT
The Protestants adopted all of the RCC doctrine even the trinity the protest was not about doctrine
FALSE
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 00:24:39
Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
If God the Father was not also God the Son, and also God the Holy Spirit, then this instruction would be heresy.
I have never heard a trinitarian say the Father was ALSO the Son and the Holy Spirit. I thought the doctrine is three
distinct persons.. the Father, who is NOT the Son or the Spirit, the Son who is NOT the Spirit or the Father etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_the_Trinity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_the_Trinity)
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 01:22:28
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 00:24:39
Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
If God the Father was not also God the Son, and also God the Holy Spirit, then this instruction would be heresy.
I have never heard a trinitarian say the Father was ALSO the Son and the Holy Spirit. I thought the doctrine is three distinct persons.. the Father, who is NOT the Son or the Spirit, the Son who is NOT the Spirit or the Father etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_the_Trinity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_the_Trinity)
That's right. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three in One Holy God. If the Three were not One God, then that instruction to us would be heretical. (I may have balled it up a bit---thank you for noticing!)
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Jesus/trinity-1.jpg)
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 17:20:47
: chosenone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:54:22
These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldnt be here.Its 100% Biblical.
So then why do they have a non-traditional theology forum if they don't allow people with non-traditional views? The Nicene Creed is traditional and those who don't adhere to all aspects of it post on this "NT" forum.
Sorry they are the rules of this forum.
: Bitter Sweet Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 17:38:48
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 17:20:47
: chosenone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:54:22
These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldn't be here.Its 100% Biblical.
So then why do they have a nontraditional theology forum if they don't allow people with nontraditional views? The Nicene Creed is traditional and those who don't adhere to all aspects of it post on this "NT" forum.
Thank You for posting this and asking this question. I look forward to Chosenone's response.
Chosenone, I do believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe in the Holy Spirit, I just don't believe in the trinity doctrine that the Orthodox and Catholic church created. Trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible and I just like to stick the words in the bible, no need to add any of man's words. ::thumbup:: Is there any rule against sticking to only God's word?
I just noticed, I don't see the word trinity mentioned in the rules either.
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I agree with bittersweet here... I believe in God the Father (Unbegotten God), His Only Begotten Son (God of God) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Father and Son) but I don't adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity (which says these are three
persons but one God.) Personally, the Holy Spirit as a third and distinct person is where I disagree.
So you don't actually have to believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught by the RCC to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:36:54
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 17:20:47
: chosenone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:54:22
These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldnt be here.Its 100% Biblical.
So then why do they have a non-traditional theology forum if they don't allow people with non-traditional views? The Nicene Creed is traditional and those who don't adhere to all aspects of it post on this "NT" forum.
Sorry they are the rules of this forum.
That may be, but the very existence of this "non-traditional theology" forum shows they have allowed us to be here. ::smile::
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Here we have God and his voice and his spirit.
The Father the son and the Holy spirit.3
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 04:02:18
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I agree with bittersweet here... I believe in God the Father (Unbegotten God), His Only Begotten Son (God of God) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Father and Son) but I don't adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity (which says these are three persons but one God.) Personally, the Holy Spirit as a third and distinct person is where I disagree.
So you don't actually have to believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught by the RCC to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
How do you "believe in" a thing that is merely the life/breath of God and not a distinct person?
Also, you should know that the understanding of God as triune in nature has been the Christian understanding of God since the inception of Christianity. This is not an RCC doctrine, it is a Christian truth.
While clearly affirming the unique Christian understanding of God as three-in-one, the early Christians progressively attempted to rethink and express that reality. Finding words in different languages to attempt to explain the content of the triple distinction and the singular oneness of God has always been difficult.
Do not confuse mans attempt to explain what is not totally explainable to the finite mind with the reality of the nature of God as He has revealed Himself to us.
I wonder if this makes any difference. When I translate Holy Spirit from the language I've heard it said in all my life it say's, Light Ghost. That's from the orthodox.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 04:17:40
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:36:54
: raggthyme7 Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 17:20:47
: chosenone Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 16:54:22
These are the beliefs that you need to have to be on this forum, as follows.If anyone does not adhere to the following they shouldnt be here.Its 100% Biblical.
So then why do they have a non-traditional theology forum if they don't allow people with non-traditional views? The Nicene Creed is traditional and those who don't adhere to all aspects of it post on this "NT" forum.
Sorry they are the rules of this forum.
That may be, but the very existence of this "non-traditional theology" forum shows they have allowed us to be here. ::smile::
True. Why does this forum exist Chosenone? Clearly other people don't believe in the trinity. Are you on a witch hunt? ::noworries::
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 04:02:18
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I agree with bittersweet here... I believe in God the Father (Unbegotten God), His Only Begotten Son (God of God) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Father and Son) but I don't adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity (which says these are three persons but one God.) Personally, the Holy Spirit as a third and distinct person is where I disagree.
So you don't actually have to believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught by the RCC to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
IT doesnt matter what you call it, as long as you believe it.
By the way nearly all demoninations teach this doctrine and not only the RCC. I have never been to a RCC church in my life apart from my aunts wedding.
Baptise them in the name of the Father, The Son and The Holy spirts. Seperate but one.
I know this is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but tonight, unlike any other night I weep at the lack of understanding in this forum. It reminds of the Egyptians who many were forced to remain in their beds, for the darkness was so great it could be felt. You all are groping and stumbling in the dark and you think you have light. Your posts are like the screams of those Egyptians tripping over their tables and chairs as they seek to find food or water those three days. Their scream echoes' through the streets as they come to grips with the cold darkness upon their skin.
Your theological ramblings reveal a your lack of sight and no ones desire's to know truth, but in their own strenght with Roman Creeds under arm you post away one after another.
You live in the times of Amos.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: (Amos 8:11)
Those days are upon us.
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 07:40:17
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 04:02:18
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I agree with bittersweet here... I believe in God the Father (Unbegotten God), His Only Begotten Son (God of God) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Father and Son) but I don't adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity (which says these are three persons but one God.) Personally, the Holy Spirit as a third and distinct person is where I disagree.
So you don't actually have to believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught by the RCC to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
IT doesnt matter what you call it, as long as you believe it.
By the way nearly all demoninations teach this doctrine and not only the RCC. I have never been to a RCC church in my life apart from my aunts wedding.
Baptise them in the name of the Father, The Son and The Holy spirts. Seperate but one.
I've always believed in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I just don't understand where you got that I don't. Either way, I forgive you for pointing the finger at me for nothing. ::kissing:: I was baptized in the Orthodox church too.
It also kinda hurts my feelings Chosenone, you know I am not friends with this world and all of my fellowship is here. Last night I felt really scared and this was one of the places I came because I feel safe. But you didn't make me feel safe or welcome anymore.
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 07:42:47
I know this is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but tonight, unlike any other night I weep at the lack of understanding in this forum. It reminds of the Egyptians who many were forced to remain in their beds, for the darkness was so great it could be felt. You all are groping and stumbling in the dark and you think you have light. Your posts are like the screams of those Egyptians tripping over their tables and chairs as they seek to find food or water those three days. Their scream echoes' through the streets as they come to grips with the cold darkness upon their skin.
Your theological ramblings reveal a your lack of sight and no ones desire's to know truth, but in their own strenght with Roman Creeds under arm you post away one after another.
You live in the times of Amos.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: (Amos 8:11)
Those days are upon us.
Well now, that is interesting. You come onto a Christian forum, deny every tenant of the Christian faith, and then weep for our lack of understanding?
The Apostle Paul wept for those like you, not those like us. He wept for those who live as enemies of the cross. Those who claim a superior knowledge of God and in the same breath deny the One who is the Lord God and Savior.
You, who deny the Word would preach to us who are of that very Word, about the Word? We who have the Word, are the deaf, but you who deny the Word claim to be able to hear. Ironic indeed.
And we lack sight? And we have no desire to know truth? We are the ones stumbling in the dark, thinking we have light? If only you had eyes to see, then you would see that what you pile upon others is only a projection of yourself. It is you who are blind.
Weep for yourself, for it is
those days that are upon
you.
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 09:44:51
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 07:42:47
I know this is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but tonight, unlike any other night I weep at the lack of understanding in this forum. It reminds of the Egyptians who many were forced to remain in their beds, for the darkness was so great it could be felt. You all are groping and stumbling in the dark and you think you have light. Your posts are like the screams of those Egyptians tripping over their tables and chairs as they seek to find food or water those three days. Their scream echoes' through the streets as they come to grips with the cold darkness upon their skin.
Your theological ramblings reveal a your lack of sight and no ones desire's to know truth, but in their own strenght with Roman Creeds under arm you post away one after another.
You live in the times of Amos.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: (Amos 8:11)
Those days are upon us.
Well now, that is interesting. You come onto a Christian forum, deny every tenant of the Christian faith, and then weep for our lack of understanding?
The Apostle Paul wept for those like you, not those like us. He wept for those who live as enemies of the cross. Those who claim a superior knowledge of God and in the same breath deny the One who is the Lord God and Savior.
You, who deny the Word would preach to us who are of that very Word, about the Word? We who have the Word, are the deaf, but you who deny the Word claim to be able to hear. Ironic indeed.
And we lack sight? And we have no desire to know truth? We are the ones stumbling in the dark, thinking we have light? If only you had eyes to see, then you would see that what you pile upon others is only a projection of yourself. It is you who are blind.
Weep for yourself, for it is those days that are upon you.
Manna!! ::clappingoverhead::
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 04:02:18
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I agree with bittersweet here... I believe in God the Father (Unbegotten God), His Only Begotten Son (God of God) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Father and Son) but I don't adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity (which says these are three persons but one God.) Personally, the Holy Spirit as a third and distinct person is where I disagree.
So you don't actually have to believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught by the RCC to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
If you look at the scriptures of John it is possible to be saved by just beleiving in the Son.
He who has the father has the Son also.
But he that denieth the son denieth the Father.
this makes sense, because if you deny Jesus whom God Father sent, then you deny him his Son who his made in His image and sin also stands in between you and Father God.
however if one denies the Father but accepts the Son, then because you see jesus and like Jesus, then it is obvious that one would love the Father also, because they are very similar, as one. the blood of Jesus abolishes the emnity between God and man.
I am not sure what happens when one denies the holy spirit as this is not directly addressed, unlike the Father.
But jesus said that blasphemy against the spirit shall not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come. This shows that the holy spirit is regarded in very high esteem with the Son.
: FireSword Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 12:05:06
But jesus said that blasphemy against the spirit shall not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come. This shows that the holy spirit is regarded in very high esteem with the Son.
OOOH! Good point! So, the Holy Spirit MUST be more than just Gabriel. ::smile::
If you deny his spirit then he doesn't know you.You have no fellowship with him.No union.
: FireSword Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 12:05:06
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 04:02:18
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I agree with bittersweet here... I believe in God the Father (Unbegotten God), His Only Begotten Son (God of God) and the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Father and Son) but I don't adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity (which says these are three persons but one God.) Personally, the Holy Spirit as a third and distinct person is where I disagree.
So you don't actually have to believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught by the RCC to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
If you look at the scriptures of John it is possible to be saved by just beleiving in the Son.
He who has the father has the Son also.
But he that denieth the son denieth the Father.
this makes sense, because if you deny Jesus whom God Father sent, then you deny him his Son who his made in His image and sin also stands in between you and Father God.
however if one denies the Father but accepts the Son, then because you see jesus and like Jesus, then it is obvious that one would love the Father also, because they are very similar, as one. the blood of Jesus abolishes the emnity between God and man.
I am not sure what happens when one denies the holy spirit as this is not directly addressed, unlike the Father.
But jesus said that blasphemy against the spirit shall not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come. This shows that the holy spirit is regarded in very high esteem with the Son.
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third
person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
ps- I do not agree with whoever says the Spirit is Gabriel... I believe the Spirit of God is the very Breath of God Himself.. therefore inseparable and
not distinct from the Father or the Son.
: bemark Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 12:33:40
If you deny his spirit then he doesn't know you.You have no fellowship with him.No union.
Thanks for making this comment, it brought to mind this verse.
Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
How can we speak against Jesus, and be forgiven if there is a trinity? Even denying that Jesus is God is forgiven, it doesn't seem to be as serious as most people make it out to be.
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I'll take that as a compliment, Manna!
John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
: FireSword Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 12:05:06
But jesus said that blasphemy against the spirit shall not be forgiven in this age or the next age to come. This shows that the holy spirit is regarded in very high esteem with the Son.
In this passage there were those who were attributing the power of God to devils... but Jesus said it was those very works that bore witness of Him, that He is the Anointed One of God. So if they would not receive the witness God gave of His Son, and instead they were convinced Jesus did those things by the power of Beelzebub, they would have no other witness, therefore no repentance. This is why there could be no forgiveness for speaking against the Spirit.
To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to reject the witness of God. That's how I understand it.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:13:42
: bemark Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 12:33:40
If you deny his spirit then he doesn't know you.You have no fellowship with him.No union.
Thanks for making this comment, it brought to mind this verse.
Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
How can we speak against Jesus, and be forgiven if there is a trinity? Even denying that Jesus is God is forgiven, it doesn't seem to be as serious as most people make it out to be.
Before we are saved we can dish God and Jesus and that can be forgiven but to be saved and deny the way that God relates to us by his Holy Spirit is unforgivable.And then go around and start telling people that that wasn't the Holy Spirit.Really But Lord I cast out demons in your name.......depart from me as I never knew you.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when
He, the Spirit of truth comes,
He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
::smile::
: bemark Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:46:19
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:13:42
: bemark Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 12:33:40
If you deny his spirit then he doesn't know you.You have no fellowship with him.No union.
Thanks for making this comment, it brought to mind this verse.
Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
How can we speak against Jesus, and be forgiven if there is a trinity? Even denying that Jesus is God is forgiven, it doesn't seem to be as serious as most people make it out to be.
Before we are saved we can dish God and Jesus and that can be forgiven but to be saved and deny the way that God relates to us by his Holy Spirit is unforgivable.And then go around and start telling people that that wasn't the Holy Spirit.Really But Lord I cast out demons in your name.......depart from me as I never knew you.
Really good point. When the spirit came upon me, I couldn't deny what I had been shown but at that same time I was denying that God existed because I honestly didn't know what was happening to me. Lucky for me I couldn't deny something I knew nothing about! lol!
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
I wouldn't call the Breath of Life "mere"... the Spirit is God's Wisdom, the Truth and is not
distinct from Father or Son. If one lies to the Spirit they lie to the Father Himself, not to another person within the Godhead.
Would you make a distinction between the spirit of a man and the man himself?
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 14:50:19
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
I wouldn't call the Breath of Life "mere"... the Spirit is God's Wisdom, the Truth and is not distinct from Father or Son. If one lies to the Spirit they lie to the Father Himself, not to another person within the Godhead.
Would you make a distinction between the spirit of a man and the man himself?
That's all very interesting, but you failed to address the passages that clearly identify the Holy Spirit as a Person.
Man is not God. God is three distinct Persons in One Being. Man is one being who functions on three distinct levels...body, soul and spirit.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
ps- I do not agree with whoever says the Spirit is Gabriel... I believe the Spirit of God is the very Breath of God Himself.. therefore inseparable and not distinct from the Father or the Son.
Something for you to think about:
During the Old Covenant, God was the main active force in the lives of His people. During the onset of the New Testament, Jesus, the Son was the active force of God in the lives of people. Then after Jesus ascended to the Father, He sent Holy Spirit as He promised, who has been with us ever since. Are there not three manifestations of God? Three distinct persons?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:16:25
: chosenone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 03:45:58
That's what trinity means bittersweet. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. You are agreeing with men here who don't believe this . One of them thinks that The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel ??? and another doesn't believe that Jesus was always with the Father or that He is God. Don't you even read their posts properly?? You are so easily influenced bittersweet, and you get blown around by all the winds of change and all the weird and heretical doctrines that people come here with.
I'll take that as a compliment, Manna!
John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
Uh...no. She was warning you, thinking of this verse:
Ephesians 4:14Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:53:20
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
ps- I do not agree with whoever says the Spirit is Gabriel... I believe the Spirit of God is the very Breath of God Himself.. therefore inseparable and not distinct from the Father or the Son.
Something for you to think about:
During the Old Covenant, God was the main active force in the lives of His people. During the onset of the New Testament, Jesus, the Son was the active force of God in the lives of people. Then after Jesus ascended to the Father, He sent Holy Spirit as He promised, who has been with us ever since. Are there not three manifestations of God? Three distinct persons?
I'll think for awhile about how to answer this.. but let me ask you something: Is the Holy Spirit Begotten God or Unbegotten God?
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 16:39:59
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:53:20
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
ps- I do not agree with whoever says the Spirit is Gabriel... I believe the Spirit of God is the very Breath of God Himself.. therefore inseparable and not distinct from the Father or the Son.
Something for you to think about:
During the Old Covenant, God was the main active force in the lives of His people. During the onset of the New Testament, Jesus, the Son was the active force of God in the lives of people. Then after Jesus ascended to the Father, He sent Holy Spirit as He promised, who has been with us ever since. Are there not three manifestations of God? Three distinct persons?
I'll think for awhile about how to answer this.. but let me ask you something: Is the Holy Spirit Begotten God or Unbegotten God?
Why does eternal Spirit need to be begotten?
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 16:52:26
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 16:39:59
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:53:20
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
ps- I do not agree with whoever says the Spirit is Gabriel... I believe the Spirit of God is the very Breath of God Himself.. therefore inseparable and not distinct from the Father or the Son.
Something for you to think about:
During the Old Covenant, God was the main active force in the lives of His people. During the onset of the New Testament, Jesus, the Son was the active force of God in the lives of people. Then after Jesus ascended to the Father, He sent Holy Spirit as He promised, who has been with us ever since. Are there not three manifestations of God? Three distinct persons?
I'll think for awhile about how to answer this.. but let me ask you something: Is the Holy Spirit Begotten God or Unbegotten God?
Why does eternal Spirit need to be begotten?
You could ask then why the
eternal Son needs to be begotten....
The Father is the
only Unbegotten God. Jesus Christ is the
only Begotten of the Father. Where does that leave the Holy Spirit as a third
person?
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:17:52
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 14:50:19
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
I wouldn't call the Breath of Life "mere"... the Spirit is God's Wisdom, the Truth and is not distinct from Father or Son. If one lies to the Spirit they lie to the Father Himself, not to another person within the Godhead.
Would you make a distinction between the spirit of a man and the man himself?
That's all very interesting, but you failed to address the passages that clearly identify the Holy Spirit as a Person.
On the contrary, I said that to lie to the Spirit is to lie to the Father, not to a distinct person in the Godhead. When the Spirit speaks it is God's Wisdom and Truth speaking, the Father Himself is speaking.. not a distinct person. I figured you would have gathered where I was going with that. I realize Man is not God ::applause:: I brought that up to make a point, the Father's Spirit is not a distinct person within Him... it is His
own Breath of Life, proceeding from Himself... a river of living water!
I just don't buy this Roman Catholic Doctrine. Sorry.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:31:25
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:17:52
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 14:50:19
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
I wouldn't call the Breath of Life "mere"... the Spirit is God's Wisdom, the Truth and is not distinct from Father or Son. If one lies to the Spirit they lie to the Father Himself, not to another person within the Godhead.
Would you make a distinction between the spirit of a man and the man himself?
That's all very interesting, but you failed to address the passages that clearly identify the Holy Spirit as a Person.
On the contrary, I said that to lie to the Spirit is to lie to the Father, not to a distinct person in the Godhead. When the Spirit speaks it is God's Wisdom and Truth speaking, the Father Himself is speaking.. not a distinct person. I figured you would have gathered where I was going with that. I realize Man is not God ::applause:: I brought that up to make a point, the Father's Spirit is not a distinct person within Him... it is His own Breath of Life, proceeding from Himself... a river of living water!
I just don't buy this Roman Catholic Doctrine. Sorry.
As I have already explained to you, this is not a RCC doctrine, it is a Christian truth. Obviously you are not interested in seriously considering what scripture says. Your in the right forum, for sure.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:31:25
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:17:52
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 14:50:19
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
I wouldn't call the Breath of Life "mere"... the Spirit is God's Wisdom, the Truth and is not distinct from Father or Son. If one lies to the Spirit they lie to the Father Himself, not to another person within the Godhead.
Would you make a distinction between the spirit of a man and the man himself?
That's all very interesting, but you failed to address the passages that clearly identify the Holy Spirit as a Person.
On the contrary, I said that to lie to the Spirit is to lie to the Father, not to a distinct person in the Godhead. When the Spirit speaks it is God's Wisdom and Truth speaking, the Father Himself is speaking.. not a distinct person. I figured you would have gathered where I was going with that. I realize Man is not God ::applause:: I brought that up to make a point, the Father's Spirit is not a distinct person within Him... it is His own Breath of Life, proceeding from Himself... a river of living water!
I just don't buy this Roman Catholic Doctrine. Sorry.
If you can lie to Holy Spirit, that makes Him a person, and this passage differentiates the Spirit from the Father:
Acts 5:3-4Then Peter said, "Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart?
You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. 4 The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this?
You weren't lying to us but to God!"
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 16:59:27
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 16:52:26
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 16:39:59
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:53:20
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
ps- I do not agree with whoever says the Spirit is Gabriel... I believe the Spirit of God is the very Breath of God Himself.. therefore inseparable and not distinct from the Father or the Son.
Something for you to think about:
During the Old Covenant, God was the main active force in the lives of His people. During the onset of the New Testament, Jesus, the Son was the active force of God in the lives of people. Then after Jesus ascended to the Father, He sent Holy Spirit as He promised, who has been with us ever since. Are there not three manifestations of God? Three distinct persons?
I'll think for awhile about how to answer this.. but let me ask you something: Is the Holy Spirit Begotten God or Unbegotten God?
Why does eternal Spirit need to be begotten?
You could ask then why the eternal Son needs to be begotten....
The Father is the only Unbegotten God. Jesus Christ is the only Begotten of the Father. Where does that leave the Holy Spirit as a third person?
No, the Holy Spirit is not begotten. He is not the Son.
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:46:23
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:31:25
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 15:17:52
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 14:50:19
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:48:45
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 13:05:02
I don't deny the Spirit of God, I just don't believe the Bible teaches a third person in the Godhead. I agree with the trinity shield (shown above), that the Father is NOT the Son, nor is the Son the Father... I see two distinct persons in intimate relationship throughout all the Scriptures. I see in Genesis that Man (male and female) was made in their image... the two as one, Eve out of Adam as the Son is Begotten of the Father. But I don't see a third person as having a relationship with the two. Neither in the case of God nor in that of Man.
If the Holy Spirit were not a Person, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11); and He could not be lied to (Acts 5:3).
Jesus Himself identifies the Holy Spirit as a Person in John 16:13, "when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth..".
These are all qualities of personhood, and not that of a mere force, power or life/breath.
I wouldn't call the Breath of Life "mere"... the Spirit is God's Wisdom, the Truth and is not distinct from Father or Son. If one lies to the Spirit they lie to the Father Himself, not to another person within the Godhead.
Would you make a distinction between the spirit of a man and the man himself?
That's all very interesting, but you failed to address the passages that clearly identify the Holy Spirit as a Person.
On the contrary, I said that to lie to the Spirit is to lie to the Father, not to a distinct person in the Godhead. When the Spirit speaks it is God's Wisdom and Truth speaking, the Father Himself is speaking.. not a distinct person. I figured you would have gathered where I was going with that. I realize Man is not God ::applause:: I brought that up to make a point, the Father's Spirit is not a distinct person within Him... it is His own Breath of Life, proceeding from Himself... a river of living water!
I just don't buy this Roman Catholic Doctrine. Sorry.
As I have already explained to you, this is not a RCC doctrine, it is a Christian truth. Obviously you are not interested in seriously considering what scripture says. Your in the right forum, for sure.
I'm very interested in what the Holy Bible says.. just not so much in creeds.
raggthyme7~
Something for you to think about:
During the Old Covenant, God was the main active force in the lives of His people. During the onset of the New Testament, Jesus, the Son was the active force of God in the lives of people. Then after Jesus ascended to the Father, He sent Holy Spirit as He promised, who has been with us ever since. Are there not three manifestations of God? Three distinct persons?
Done thinkin'?
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:31:25
On the contrary, I said that to lie to the Spirit is to lie to the Father, not to a distinct person in the Godhead. When the Spirit speaks it is God's Wisdom and Truth speaking, the Father Himself is speaking.. not a distinct person. I figured you would have gathered where I was going with that. I realize Man is not God ::applause:: I brought that up to make a point, the Father's Spirit is not a distinct person within Him... it is His own Breath of Life, proceeding from Himself... a river of living water!
And your words flow like water too!
I just don't buy this Roman Catholic Doctrine. Sorry.
Me neither, I don't follow people that teach that either. The bible warned us of false doctrines, those people cause divisions and create obstacles for people.
I was raised in the Orthodox church that taught the same thing, my grandmother warned me about the church on her death bed. She didn't want to go and I stopped with her.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:54:27
Done thinkin'?
Never done thinkin' ... but I would say that I do not believe in three manifestations of God. I see two distinct persons in Scripture:
1. The Father, the one and only unbegotten God, greater than all, from whom everything comes.
2. His only Begotten Son, a distinct and rational power whom He brought forth from Himself by an act of will, who ministers to the Father in all things. Through Him everything came into existence. He is God,
of God.
I see no third person. After His ascension, Jesus sent the promise of the Father.. that power from on high. His own life-giving [Ruach] which quenches the barren soul. The Spirit is Truth, how can anyone make a distinction between the Father and Truth.. or the Son and Truth for that matter. I just cannot fathom it. Yet the Spirit is said to be distinct-
not the Father,
not the Son... ::shrug::
you asked:
Why does eternal Spirit need to be begotten?
I said:
The Father is the
only Unbegotten God. Jesus Christ is the
only Begotten of the Father. Where does that leave the Holy Spirit as a third
person?
[/quote]
Did you have an answer for me?
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:40:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:54:27
Done thinkin'?
Never done thinkin' ... but I would say that I do not believe in three manifestations of God. I see two distinct persons in Scripture:
1. The Father, the one and only unbegotten God, greater than all, from whom everything comes.
2. His only Begotten Son, a distinct and rational power whom He brought forth from Himself by an act of will, who ministers to the Father in all things. Through Him everything came into existence. He is God, of God.
I see no third person. After His ascension, Jesus sent the promise of the Father.. that power from on high. His own life-giving [Ruach] which quenches the barren soul. The Spirit is Truth, how can anyone make a distinction between the Father and Truth.. or the Son and Truth for that matter. I just cannot fathom it. Yet the Spirit is said to be distinct- not the Father, not the Son... ::shrug::
you asked:
Why does eternal Spirit need to be begotten?
I said:
The Father is the only Unbegotten God. Jesus Christ is the only Begotten of the Father. Where does that leave the Holy Spirit as a third person?
Did you have an answer for me?
[/quote]
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html)
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:52:37
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html)
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
How does this answer my question? If the Father alone is Unbegotten and the Son alone is Begotten of the Father.. what of the Holy Spirit? Is the third "person" of the trinity Begotten or Unbegotten?
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:57:31
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:52:37
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html)
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
How does this answer my question? If the Father alone is Unbegotten and the Son alone is Begotten of the Father.. what of the Holy Spirit? Is the third "person" of the trinity Begotten or Unbegotten?
What is the purpose of the question?
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:04:11
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:57:31
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:52:37
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html)
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
How does this answer my question? If the Father alone is Unbegotten and the Son alone is Begotten of the Father.. what of the Holy Spirit? Is the third "person" of the trinity Begotten or Unbegotten?
What is the purpose of the question?
To find out the answer ::smile::
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 10:11:04
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 09:44:51
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 07:42:47
I know this is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but tonight, unlike any other night I weep at the lack of understanding in this forum. It reminds of the Egyptians who many were forced to remain in their beds, for the darkness was so great it could be felt. You all are groping and stumbling in the dark and you think you have light. Your posts are like the screams of those Egyptians tripping over their tables and chairs as they seek to find food or water those three days. Their scream echoes' through the streets as they come to grips with the cold darkness upon their skin.
Your theological ramblings reveal a your lack of sight and no ones desire's to know truth, but in their own strenght with Roman Creeds under arm you post away one after another.
You live in the times of Amos.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: (Amos 8:11)
Those days are upon us.
Well now, that is interesting. You come onto a Christian forum, deny every tenant of the Christian faith, and then weep for our lack of understanding?
The Apostle Paul wept for those like you, not those like us. He wept for those who live as enemies of the cross. Those who claim a superior knowledge of God and in the same breath deny the One who is the Lord God and Savior.
You, who deny the Word would preach to us who are of that very Word, about the Word? We who have the Word, are the deaf, but you who deny the Word claim to be able to hear. Ironic indeed.
And we lack sight? And we have no desire to know truth? We are the ones stumbling in the dark, thinking we have light? If only you had eyes to see, then you would see that what you pile upon others is only a projection of yourself. It is you who are blind.
Weep for yourself, for it is those days that are upon you.
Manna!! ::clappingoverhead::
Your hand clapping and celebrations do not change the reality of your blindness.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:15:03
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:04:11
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:57:31
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:52:37
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html)
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
How does this answer my question? If the Father alone is Unbegotten and the Son alone is Begotten of the Father.. what of the Holy Spirit? Is the third "person" of the trinity Begotten or Unbegotten?
What is the purpose of the question?
To find out the answer ::smile::
http://theologicalclowning.org/pete2.html (http://theologicalclowning.org/pete2.html)
The Holy Spirit, therefore, proceeds from the Father and the Son, having the same divine nature, eternally, outside of time. The Father's begetting of the Son and the Holy Spirit's proceeding from the Father and the Son can be attributed as the overflowing love that is the nature of God. Such a love begets the Son, and the equally abundant love each possesses for the other overflows with the procession of the Holy Spirit from a "single spiration."
- The Holy Spirit, therefore, is rightly the "unity of both, or the holiness, or the love."[xi]
What is your response to above? Click on the link if you want to read more.
There have been debates before on whether the Holy Spirit is begotten or unbegotten. Too much back and forth between the two. My opinion, the Holy Spirit is neither as it proceeds both from the Father and Son.
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:30:02
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:15:03
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:04:11
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:57:31
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:52:37
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html)
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
How does this answer my question? If the Father alone is Unbegotten and the Son alone is Begotten of the Father.. what of the Holy Spirit? Is the third "person" of the trinity Begotten or Unbegotten?
What is the purpose of the question?
To find out the answer ::smile::
http://theologicalclowning.org/pete2.html (http://theologicalclowning.org/pete2.html)
The Holy Spirit, therefore, proceeds from the Father and the Son, having the same divine nature, eternally, outside of time. The Father's begetting of the Son and the Holy Spirit's proceeding from the Father and the Son can be attributed as the overflowing love that is the nature of God. Such a love begets the Son, and the equally abundant love each possesses for the other overflows with the procession of the Holy Spirit from a "single spiration."- The Holy Spirit, therefore, is rightly the "unity of both, or the holiness, or the love."[xi]
What is your response to above? Click on the link if you want to read more.
There have been debates before on whether the Holy Spirit is begotten or unbegotten. Too much back and forth between the two. My opinion, the Holy Spirit is neither as it proceeds both from the Father and Son.
Funny, I was just reading this before you posted it here. I agree that the Holy Spirit is the Unity between the two (Father and Son), the bond of perfection, the Wisdom, the Truth, the Holiness... proceeding as a river. But nowhere does the Bible even picture
three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc. We only see this beautiful union between the Father and His Son. And since Christ came we now see this pictured: the unity between Father, Son and those who have received the life-giving flow...
The problem here stems from the word begotten, which should be translated as "one and only". Begotten is for some reason translated AS "monogenes" in the Greek, which translates to mono=one or unique, genes-kind. Begotten is really monogennao, or mono=one or unique and gennao=begotten. Jesus is God's unique Son of God, or one of a kind Son of God as opposed to the many sons of God through faith in Jesus. In John 20:28, Thomas referred to Jesus as HIS Lord and HIS God. Titus 2:13 refers to Jesus as the great God and our Savior.
In Christ,
Grapesicle
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 18:40:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 17:54:27
Done thinkin'?
Never done thinkin' ... but I would say that I do not believe in three manifestations of God. I see two distinct persons in Scripture:
1. The Father, the one and only unbegotten God, greater than all, from whom everything comes.
2. His only Begotten Son, a distinct and rational power whom He brought forth from Himself by an act of will, who ministers to the Father in all things. Through Him everything came into existence. He is God, of God.
I see no third person. After His ascension, Jesus sent the promise of the Father.. that power from on high. His own life-giving [Ruach] which quenches the barren soul. The Spirit is Truth, how can anyone make a distinction between the Father and Truth.. or the Son and Truth for that matter. I just cannot fathom it. Yet the Spirit is said to be distinct- not the Father, not the Son... ::shrug::
you asked:
Why does eternal Spirit need to be begotten?
I said:
The Father is the only Unbegotten God. Jesus Christ is the only Begotten of the Father. Where does that leave the Holy Spirit as a third person?
Did you have an answer for me?
I am sorry about your delusion, then, raggthyme. It appears you have been influenced by people who are lacking in the understanding of God and who He is. the spirit is the Spirit of Christ, able to be omnipresent to do the works of Christ in us and through us.
He is a Person, and is referred to in the third person singular.
THE HOLY SPIRITAttributes: Who Is HeHe possesses omniscience (1 Cor. 2:11,12)
He possess omnipresence (Ps. 139:7)
He possesses omnipotence (Job 33:4)
He is Truth (1 John 5:6)
He gives life (Luke 11:13)
He possesses creative wisdom (Is. 40:13)
He possesses all the attributes of deity: He is God (Acts 5:3,4)
Record: What He Has Done
In the Old Testament:He was active at creation (Gen. 1:2)
He was the bestower of supernatural giftedness (Gen. 31:38)
He was the giver of creativity (Ex. 31:2-5)
He was the source of power (Judges. 3:9, 10)
He inspired prophecy (1 Sam. 19:20, 23)
He was the mediator of God's message (Mic. 3:8)
In the New Testament:He was part of the Incarnation (Luke 1:35)
He declared the truth about Christ (John 16:13,14)
He endowed believers with power for witnessing (Acts 1:8)
He poured out God's love (Rom. 5:5)
He interceded (Rom. 8:26)
He was the inspiration for the writing of the Holy Scripture (2 Tim.3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21)
He distributed giftedness for ministry (1 Cor.12:4-11)
He empowered believers with characteristics for godly living (Gal. 5:22, 23)
He Strengthened believers within (Eph. 3:16)
Work: What He Will DoHe will guide the believer (Acts 8:29 ; Rom. 8:14)
He will give assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:14-17)
He will be the believer's teacher (1 John 2:27)
He will intercede (Rom. 8:26)
He will comfort (John 14:16)
He will sanctify (2 Thess. 2:13)
He will accomplish regeneration (John 3:6)
He will make you aware of sin (John 16:8)
He will convince you of the truth of the gospel (John 16:8, 13, 14)
He will empower you to witness (Acts 1:8;4:31)
He will destroy the power of sin in your life (Rom. 8:2-6)
He will lead and even control your life (Rom. 8:14;Gal. 5:16, 25)
He will distribute gifts to be used in the kingdom (1 Cor. 12:14-11
The Holy Spirit was promised as a gift to believers. Part of His ministry is to seal believers at the moment they place saving faith in Christ. The term, 'seal' includes certain truths: He is a provision of security, a mark of ownership, and a sign of approval.
Indeed, the Holy Spirit's presence in believers' lives is the final evidence, both to themselves and to others, of the truth of what each has believed.
Further, He is the down payment, providing both a foretaste of the believer's spiritual inheritance and a legal claim to the fullness of that inheritance in the future.
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 19:23:43
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 10:11:04
: ChristNU Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 09:44:51
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 07:42:47
I know this is unrelated to the discussion at hand, but tonight, unlike any other night I weep at the lack of understanding in this forum. It reminds of the Egyptians who many were forced to remain in their beds, for the darkness was so great it could be felt. You all are groping and stumbling in the dark and you think you have light. Your posts are like the screams of those Egyptians tripping over their tables and chairs as they seek to find food or water those three days. Their scream echoes' through the streets as they come to grips with the cold darkness upon their skin.
Your theological ramblings reveal a your lack of sight and no ones desire's to know truth, but in their own strenght with Roman Creeds under arm you post away one after another.
You live in the times of Amos.
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: (Amos 8:11)
Those days are upon us.
Well now, that is interesting. You come onto a Christian forum, deny every tenant of the Christian faith, and then weep for our lack of understanding?
The Apostle Paul wept for those like you, not those like us. He wept for those who live as enemies of the cross. Those who claim a superior knowledge of God and in the same breath deny the One who is the Lord God and Savior.
You, who deny the Word would preach to us who are of that very Word, about the Word? We who have the Word, are the deaf, but you who deny the Word claim to be able to hear. Ironic indeed.
And we lack sight? And we have no desire to know truth? We are the ones stumbling in the dark, thinking we have light? If only you had eyes to see, then you would see that what you pile upon others is only a projection of yourself. It is you who are blind.
Weep for yourself, for it is those days that are upon you.
Manna!! ::clappingoverhead::
Your hand clapping and celebrations do not change the reality of your blindness.
Actually, what is there is a celebration of spiritual insight.
Lively Stone,
I'm not fooled by the proceeding "He" on all the verses you quoted above. None of them say the Spirit is a person, distinct from the Father and Son.
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc.
We only see this beautiful relationship between the Father and His Son. The Spirit is the Truth which proceeds from both of them. There is no distinct personhood of the Holy Spirit taught in the Bible, so I will not adhere to this dogma. The Father is the ONLY true God... Jesus said it! And the Son is God Begotten of Him. If you have the Son, you have the Father also... no need for the creed.
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 21:23:02
Lively Stone,
I'm not fooled by the proceeding "He" on all the verses you quoted above. None of them say the Spirit is a person, distinct from the Father and Son.
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc.
We only see this beautiful relationship between the Father and His Son. The Spirit is the Truth which proceeds from both of them. There is no distinct personhood of the Holy Spirit taught in the Bible, so I will not adhere to this dogma. The Father is the ONLY true God... Jesus said it! And the Son is God Begotten of Him. If you have the Son, you have the Father also... no need for the creed.
Last time I looked, a 'He' or a 'Him' is in reference to a person. You cannot even know God without Him. So, you need to watch what you argue about. I really don't think that a Christian who wants all of what Jesus died to give Him will ever experience the fullness of what Holy Spirit brings him unless he comes to an understanding and submission to Holy Spirit. Those who reject who He is can experience salvation, but Holy Spirit will have to convince the person of who He is. Until then a person who doubts Him is stuck in a rut of being saved, but not fully alive and walking in his gifting, which can only be bestowed by Holy Spirit's baptism. There is a deeper life in Christ and you will miss it because of your denials.
: howard Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 21:58:19
: HRoberson Tue Jul 17, 2012 - 21:35:26
The Holy Spirit as God is a deduction.
The Trinity is a concept based on deduction.
Where is this written ?
^
^
^
^ Right up there.
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc.
a. true
b. false
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 23:52:48
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other.
a. true
b. false
true...but consider how many will not be saved ::frown:: For the One true will not be worshipped as a three headed monster.
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 23:55:26
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 23:52:48
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other.
a. true
b. false
true...but consider how many will not be saved ::frown:: For the One true will not be worshipped as a three headed monster.
Calling God a three-headed monster is heinous speech, and only reveals ignorance and the utter lack of relationship with God. God seeks out those He wants for Himself, Jesus saves them and Holy Spirit seals them. Every member of the Trinity is self aware and speaks of His own self. That you miss that detail shows a lack of scriptural knowledge and understanding.
You are completely out of touch with Christianity.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 00:57:36
Every member of the Trinity is self aware and speaks of His own self. That you miss that detail shows a lack of scriptural knowledge and understanding.
Speaks of His own self?
Lively Stone,
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 23:52:48
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc.
a. true
b. false
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 00:57:36
You are completely out of touch with Christianity.
Thank you Lively.
The word 'person' is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word 'person' is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say 'you,' 'yours,' 'me,' 'mine,' etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
They are each called God:
Father: Phil. 1:2
Son: John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9
Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3-4
Each has a will:
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Holy Spirit:1 Cor. 12:11
Each is all-knowing:
Father: 1 John 3:20
Son: John 16:30; 21:17
Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 2:10-11
Each has a will:
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 12:11
Each speaks:
Father: Matt. 3:17
Son: Luke 5:20
Holy Spirit: Acts 8:29; 13:2
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
That wasn't exactly the question... a simple true or false would suffice. Oh well. I do appreciate the time you took to answer your
own question. ::tippinghat::
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
Good post bemark. Nicely put.
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
This is the order in which it happened to me. When I was being led by the spirit, they were by far my ideas, in fact I had no idea what was going to happen next. I remember Memyself once mention a movie and seeing herself as a character in the movie which opened her eyes to an aspect of herself, this is how the spirit led me. Except this happened everywhere I looked. I always told myself I will never get married but the spirit also led me to my husband and I married him the first week we met. Everyone thought I was crazy because of this, I immediately stopped being a prostitute, my life changed completely. The spirit took me out of the world, I didn't understand why this was happening but I let it happen and I didn't fight against it. I knew it was right because of the positive changes in my life, I was being re-created. In the meantime I was one of those Atheist talking about things to do with the bible other than read it, I still hadn't read the bible. The spirit doesn't stop leading us even when we reject Jesus and God. I was being washed and renewed total cleansing without anything from me!
I would love to hear other peoples testimony's on how the spirit led them and changed their lives.
I personally wouldn't continue in this debate if the mentality of the person whom you're trying to help see the truth is, "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up!". My beliefs do not come from the Nicene Creed, the RCC, or even any doctrine or man of denomination because the bible says:
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, (Jeremiah 17:5a)
Even if you can show CLEARLY that the Holy Spirit is God, and is a distinct person from the Father and the Son; those who have their mind made up will more than likely not repent from their false beliefs. A deceived person doesn't know that they're deceived, that's the thing about deception.
I go by what the BIBLE says, because the bible is the ULTIMATE authority when it comes to doctrine. So is the Holy Spirit God?
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to
lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?
thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (Acts 5:3,4)
Is the Holy Spirit a distinct person from the Father and the Son?
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you
another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (John14:16)
Another Comforter = "allos parakletos" or ANOTHER of the same kind.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send
him unto you. And when
he is come,
he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (John 16:7-11)
Jesus said, HE (ANOTHER
PERSON) will reprove the world of sin, not Him (Jesus).
What have we learned?
- The Holy Spirit is God
- The Holy Spirit is a distinct person who is NOT the Father or the Son
- The Holy Spirit is a PERSON NOT Jesus or the Father
The bible says that God is LOVE (1 John 4:8). If the Holy Spirit IS God, then He as God is the HIGHEST expression of love. And since God is unchangeable and eternal, we know that the Holy Spirit LOVED both the Father and the Son from eternity past. I now turn this over to prayer because only God Himself can open the eyes of the blind now.
In Christ,
Grapesicle
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 00:57:36
: Clarity Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 23:55:26
: raggthyme7 Wed Jul 18, 2012 - 23:52:48
Again, nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other.
a. true
b. false
true...but consider how many will not be saved ::frown:: For the One true will not be worshipped as a three headed monster.
Calling God a three-headed monster is heinous speech, and only reveals ignorance and the utter lack of relationship with God. God seeks out those He wants for Himself, Jesus saves them and Holy Spirit seals them. Every member of the Trinity is self aware and speaks of His own self. That you miss that detail shows a lack of scriptural knowledge and understanding.
You are completely out of touch with Christianity.
God seeks out those He wants for Himself, Jesus saves them and Holy Spirit seals themAMEN!
How this is being argued against is beyond me...its all right in God's word.
: Grapesicle Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 08:39:58
I personally wouldn't continue in this debate if the mentality of the person whom you're trying to help see the truth is, "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up!". My beliefs do not come from the Nicene Creed, the RCC, or even any doctrine or man of denomination because the bible says:
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, (Jeremiah 17:5a)
Even if you can show CLEARLY that the Holy Spirit is God, and is a distinct person from the Father and the Son; those who have their mind made up will more than likely not repent from their false beliefs. A deceived person doesn't know that they're deceived, that's the thing about deception.
I go by what the BIBLE says, because the bible is the ULTIMATE authority when it comes to doctrine. So is the Holy Spirit God?
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (Acts 5:3,4)
Is the Holy Spirit a distinct person from the Father and the Son?
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (John14:16)
Another Comforter = "allos parakletos" or ANOTHER of the same kind.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (John 16:7-11)
Jesus said, HE (ANOTHER PERSON) will reprove the world of sin, not Him (Jesus).
What have we learned?
- The Holy Spirit is God
- The Holy Spirit is a distinct person who is NOT the Father or the Son
- The Holy Spirit is a PERSON NOT Jesus or the Father
The bible says that God is LOVE (1 John 4:8). If the Holy Spirit IS God, then He as God is the HIGHEST expression of love. And since God is unchangeable and eternal, we know that the Holy Spirit LOVED both the Father and the Son from eternity past. I now turn this over to prayer because only God Himself can open the eyes of the blind now.
In Christ,
Grapesicle
Very well said, and all very true. ::clappingoverhead::
: Grapesicle Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 08:39:58
I personally wouldn't continue in this debate if the mentality of the person whom you're trying to help see the truth is, "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up!". My beliefs do not come from the Nicene Creed, the RCC, or even any doctrine or man of denomination because the bible says:
Thank you for your honesty!
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.'
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."A person stuck in particular ways are not born of the spirit.
Is the comforter only 1 person in particular? If so, who? As far as flesh goes we only know Jesus came in the flesh. Is the comforter flesh?
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 02:28:12
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
That wasn't exactly the question... a simple true or false would suffice. Oh well. I do appreciate the time you took to answer your own question. ::tippinghat::
I didn't have a question. I posted for your own clarification on the matter.
: chosenone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 05:32:13
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
Good post bemark. Nicely put.
::smile:: Thanks
: Bitter Sweet Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 06:34:22
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
This is the order in which it happened to me. When I was being led by the spirit, they were by far my ideas, in fact I had no idea what was going to happen next. I remember Memyself once mention a movie and seeing herself as a character in the movie which opened her eyes to an aspect of herself, this is how the spirit led me. Except this happened everywhere I looked. I always told myself I will never get married but the spirit also led me to my husband and I married him the first week we met. Everyone thought I was crazy because of this, I immediately stopped being a prostitute, my life changed completely. The spirit took me out of the world, I didn't understand why this was happening but I let it happen and I didn't fight against it. I knew it was right because of the positive changes in my life, I was being re-created. In the meantime I was one of those Atheist talking about things to do with the bible other than read it, I still hadn't read the bible. The spirit doesn't stop leading us even when we reject Jesus and God. I was being washed and renewed total cleansing without anything from me!
I would love to hear other peoples testimony's on how the spirit led them and changed their lives.
That's cool ::clappingoverhead:: really cool
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 10:05:10
: Bitter Sweet Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 06:34:22
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
This is the order in which it happened to me. When I was being led by the spirit, they were by far my ideas, in fact I had no idea what was going to happen next. I remember Memyself once mention a movie and seeing herself as a character in the movie which opened her eyes to an aspect of herself, this is how the spirit led me. Except this happened everywhere I looked. I always told myself I will never get married but the spirit also led me to my husband and I married him the first week we met. Everyone thought I was crazy because of this, I immediately stopped being a prostitute, my life changed completely. The spirit took me out of the world, I didn't understand why this was happening but I let it happen and I didn't fight against it. I knew it was right because of the positive changes in my life, I was being re-created. In the meantime I was one of those Atheist talking about things to do with the bible other than read it, I still hadn't read the bible. The spirit doesn't stop leading us even when we reject Jesus and God. I was being washed and renewed total cleansing without anything from me!
I would love to hear other peoples testimony's on how the spirit led them and changed their lives.
That's cool ::clappingoverhead:: really cool
Thank God! It wasn't me, but I'll tell you what, it was one of the best roller coaster rides of my life!
Bitter sweet you took me back to when the Holy Spirit was drawing me.My game set and all my records where stolen and in that time I came to him.The very first day that I felt clean, the day that I felt peace like no other, the day that I started to get to know him and feel his presence flow upon me through me like water.
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 10:33:35
Bitter sweet you took me back to when the Holy Spirit was drawing me.My game set and all my records where stolen and in that time I came to him.The very first day that I felt clean, the day that I felt peace like no other, the day that I started to get to know him and feel his presence flow upon me through me like water.
Beautiful!
I didn't realize I was being cleansed, I just let it happen. If I knew then what was happening, I don't know if I would have been able to handle it they way I did. I just thought the power was coming from me, everything being shown was about me, I thought I was controlling it but then I had no idea what I was going to see or happen next. When I did put my thought or idea of what something was into the mix, I was stopped in my tracks and I didn't fight it. The spirit truly does flow like water through our conscious.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:11:52
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 10:33:35
Bitter sweet you took me back to when the Holy Spirit was drawing me.My game set and all my records where stolen and in that time I came to him.The very first day that I felt clean, the day that I felt peace like no other, the day that I started to get to know him and feel his presence flow upon me through me like water.
Beautiful!
I didn't realize I was being cleansed, I just let it happen. If I knew then what was happening, I don't know if I would have been able to handle it they way I did. I just thought the power was coming from me, everything being shown was about me, I thought I was controlling it but then I had no idea what I was going to see or happen next. When I did put my thought or idea of what something was into the mix, I was stopped in my tracks and I didn't fight it. The spirit truly does flow like water through our conscious.
Please don't take others' experiences as the same as your own, BS. Whatever you experienced was not cleansing. You had no idea of Jesus Christ at the time, did you? Only His blood can cleanse us from all sin. Until you have come to accept Jesus' sacrifice for you personally, you would not have been cleansed or saved. Perhaps what happened to you was God's way of waking you up to Him---just a beginning of a journey to find Jesus and salvation.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 09:48:43
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 02:28:12
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
That wasn't exactly the question... a simple true or false would suffice. Oh well. I do appreciate the time you took to answer your own question. ::tippinghat::
I didn't have a question. I posted for your own clarification on the matter.
Sheesh! How hard is it to get one simple answer?
You said:
"Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.
?"
Looks like the form of a question to me.. has the proper punctuation and everything. But it's not
my question. I asked you specifically if the following statement was
a. true or
b. false
"Nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in
eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc. "
All you had to say was a.. or b ::shrug::
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:31:50
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 09:48:43
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 02:28:12
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
That wasn't exactly the question... a simple true or false would suffice. Oh well. I do appreciate the time you took to answer your own question. ::tippinghat::
I didn't have a question. I posted for your own clarification on the matter.
Sheesh! How hard is it to get one simple answer?
You said:
"Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.?"
Looks like the form of a question to me.. has the proper punctuation and everything. But it's not my question. I asked you specifically if the following statement was
a. true or
b. false
"Nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc. "
All you had to say was a.. or b ::shrug::
It was rhetorical---pertaining to what I posted following.
Your little question doesn't mean anything. Just because certain verses you want to be in scripture aren't there doesn't mean that the family relationship between Father, son and Spirit doesn't exist. The word teaches it. God is Love.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:16:21
: Bitter Sweet Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:11:52
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 10:33:35
Bitter sweet you took me back to when the Holy Spirit was drawing me.My game set and all my records where stolen and in that time I came to him.The very first day that I felt clean, the day that I felt peace like no other, the day that I started to get to know him and feel his presence flow upon me through me like water.
Beautiful!
I didn't realize I was being cleansed, I just let it happen. If I knew then what was happening, I don't know if I would have been able to handle it they way I did. I just thought the power was coming from me, everything being shown was about me, I thought I was controlling it but then I had no idea what I was going to see or happen next. When I did put my thought or idea of what something was into the mix, I was stopped in my tracks and I didn't fight it. The spirit truly does flow like water through our conscious.
Please don't take others' experiences as the same as your own, BS. Whatever you experienced was not cleansing. You had no idea of Jesus Christ at the time, did you? Only His blood can cleanse us from all sin. Until you have come to accept Jesus' sacrifice for you personally, you would not have been cleansed or saved. Perhaps what happened to you was God's way of waking you up to Him---just a beginning of a journey to find Jesus and salvation.
I agree with you Lively its when you receive him and Bitter sweet it sure is a roller coaster ride to remember alright.
2 Corinthians 5:13 If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. ::thumbup::
Just living the word! Of course, that was just the beginning!
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 12:06:24
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:31:50
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 09:48:43
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 02:28:12
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
That wasn't exactly the question... a simple true or false would suffice. Oh well. I do appreciate the time you took to answer your own question. ::tippinghat::
I didn't have a question. I posted for your own clarification on the matter.
Sheesh! How hard is it to get one simple answer?
You said:
"Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.?"
Looks like the form of a question to me.. has the proper punctuation and everything. But it's not my question. I asked you specifically if the following statement was
a. true or
b. false
"Nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc. "
All you had to say was a.. or b ::shrug::
Your little question doesn't mean anything. Just because certain verses you want to be in scripture aren't there doesn't mean that the family relationship between Father, son and Spirit doesn't exist. The word teaches it. God is Love.
Ok, a. true. Thank you.
Hmmm, there
is a family relationship mentioned many times between the only true God and His Beloved Son.
I find it strange that you believe so strongly in something that cannot be substantiated by the Bible.
You admit the verses aren't there to prove the Father and Son have a love relationship with another person called the Holy Spirit but then you contradict yourself saying the Bible teaches it. ???
Yes, God is love... this does not prove God is three persons in one.
God is One:
Speaking to the
Father Jesus says,
"This is eternal life, that they may know
You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom
You have sent." John 17:3
According to the trinitarian belief, the verse should read,
"This is eternal life, that they may know [Father, Son and Holy Spirit]
the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
See how this makes no sense...
God the Father is One... not three. By your own admission the Father is only
one of three persons and that these three make up the only true God. According to John 17:3 you would need to reconsider your definition of God. This verse would be saying God
the Father is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Trinitarianism breeds confusion for the one who wants only to believe God's word.
Read the Bible folks, God the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD... and Jesus Christ is His only Begotten Son...
Jehovah Witnesses use this verse to prove Jesus is a created being, but they are ignorant of the fact that God begets God. Jesus Christ is rightly called
God because He is of the one true God.
Stick with the Bible, not the creeds of men.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 12:57:30
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 12:06:24
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 11:31:50
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 09:48:43
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 02:28:12
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
That wasn't exactly the question... a simple true or false would suffice. Oh well. I do appreciate the time you took to answer your own question. ::tippinghat::
I didn't have a question. I posted for your own clarification on the matter.
Sheesh! How hard is it to get one simple answer?
You said:
"Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.?"
Looks like the form of a question to me.. has the proper punctuation and everything. But it's not my question. I asked you specifically if the following statement was
a. true or
b. false
"Nowhere does the Bible even picture three persons in eternal, intimate relationship with each other. Not once does it mention the love the Spirit has for the Son, or for the Father or the Father for the Spirit etc. "
All you had to say was a.. or b ::shrug::
Your little question doesn't mean anything. Just because certain verses you want to be in scripture aren't there doesn't mean that the family relationship between Father, son and Spirit doesn't exist. The word teaches it. God is Love.
Ok, a. true. Thank you.
Hmmm, there is a family relationship mentioned many times between the only true God and His Beloved Son.
I find it strange that you believe so strongly in something that cannot be substantiated by the Bible.
You admit the verses aren't there to prove the Father and Son have a love relationship with another person called the Holy Spirit but then you contradict yourself saying the Bible teaches it.
Yes, God is love... this does not prove God is three persons in one.
God is One:
Speaking to the Father Jesus says,
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3
According to the trinitarian belief, the verse should read,
"This is eternal life, that they may know [Father, Son and Holy Spirit] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
See how this makes no sense... God the Father is One... not three. By your own admission the Father is one of three persons and that these three make up the only true God. According to John 17:3 you would need to reconsider your definition of God. This verse would be saying God the Father is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Trinitarianism breeds confusion for the one who wants only to believe God's word.
Read the Bible folks, God the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD... and Jesus Christ is His only Begotten Son...
Jehovah Witnesses use this verse to prove Jesus is a created being, but they are ignorant of the fact that God begets God. Jesus Christ is rightly called God because He is of the one true God.
Stick with the Bible, not the creeds of men.
The Bible teaches that God is Three in One. It is substantiated all throughout.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:09:29
The Bible teaches that God is Three in One. It is substantiated all throughout.
Are you saying the "only true God" is three in one???
I want to hear how you wiggle around John 17:3. The
Father is only
one of three persons, according to trinitarianism. According to Jesus, the Father is the one and "only true God". Because everything comes from Him... He is not dependent upon any other for life. Jesus said He lives because of the Father... you cannot say the Father lives because of
anyone. He is the only true [Unbegotten] God!
According to John 17:3,
you are then saying the
Father is
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Nonsense and confusion. Yet the trinitarian will comfort the poor soul who struggles with this confusion by saying "man just cannot understand the mystery of the Godhead." Not buying it.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:41:44
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:09:29
The Bible teaches that God is Three in One. It is substantiated all throughout.
Are you saying the "only true God" is three in one???
I want to hear how you wiggle around John 17:3. The Father is only one of three persons, according to trinitarianism. According to Jesus, the Father is the one and "only true God". Because everything comes from Him... He is not dependent upon any other for life. Jesus said He lives because of the Father... you cannot say the Father lives because of anyone. He is the only true [Unbegotten] God!
This is simply not true. God is One. Take away any of the Three who comprise the One, and God would cease to be God.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 15:03:29
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:41:44
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:09:29
The Bible teaches that God is Three in One. It is substantiated all throughout.
Are you saying the "only true God" is three in one???
I want to hear how you wiggle around John 17:3. The Father is only one of three persons, according to trinitarianism. According to Jesus, the Father is the one and "only true God". Because everything comes from Him... He is not dependent upon any other for life. Jesus said He lives because of the Father... you cannot say the Father lives because of anyone. He is the only true [Unbegotten] God!
This is simply not true. God is One. Take away any of the Three who comprise the One, and God would cease to be God.
The Father is the "only true God", not true? (John 17:3)
Jesus lives because of the Father, not true? (John 6:57)
Is the Father dependent upon anyone for life?
IS THE FATHER: FATHER, SON AND SPIRIT?
(not yelling, just emphasizing) ::lookaround::
Sounds like you have a beef with the Bible. If you love Jesus, believe Him:
The Father is the one and only true God, and Jesus Christ is the One whom He sent. The Father Himself is NOT
three persons in one.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 15:13:05
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 15:03:29
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:41:44
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:09:29
The Bible teaches that God is Three in One. It is substantiated all throughout.
Are you saying the "only true God" is three in one???
I want to hear how you wiggle around John 17:3. The Father is only one of three persons, according to trinitarianism. According to Jesus, the Father is the one and "only true God". Because everything comes from Him... He is not dependent upon any other for life. Jesus said He lives because of the Father... you cannot say the Father lives because of anyone. He is the only true [Unbegotten] God!
This is simply not true. God is One. Take away any of the Three who comprise the One, and God would cease to be God.
The Father is the "only true God", not true? (John 17:3)
Jesus lives because of the Father, not true? (John 6:57)
Is the Father dependent upon anyone for life?
IS THE FATHER: FATHER, SON AND SPIRIT?
(not yelling, just emphasizing) ::lookaround::
Sounds like you have a beef with the Bible. If you love Jesus, believe Him. The Father is the one and only true God.
The Father Himself is NOT three in one.
Are you not the one who believes that Jesus and the Father are together God?
But we know that God is One, and that is where any of our thoughts about the nature of God must begin. Even discounting the HS as you do, you must recognize that if God is One but comprised of two as you believe, then it would be impossible to take away either the Father or the Son and still have God. Because even in your belief the God who is One is comprised of two.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 15:28:37
Are you not the one who believes that Jesus and the Father are together God?
But we know that God is One, and that is where any of our thoughts about the nature of God must begin. Even discounting the HS as you do, you must recognize that if God is One but comprised of two as you believe, then it would be impossible to take away either the Father or the Son and still have God. Because even in your belief the God who is One is comprised of two.
I am not aware of a time when I said that the Father was 2 persons in one, both Father and Son. I do recall saying that the Father is the only Unbegotten God and the Son is God begotten of the Father. He shares in His nature.. because God begets God, but He is
not the true
Unbegotten God. There is a distinction. One is the Begetter, the other the Begotten. One is greater. Jesus made this clear, we should heed His words. The Son is worthy of worship because the Father commands it (Heb 1) for He does not
give His glory to another [besides Him.]
The term "GOD" may be applied to both, since the true God begets God, not a creature. All "creation" is either made from nothing (or from existing materials.)
But no, I do not believe the one true God is Father and Son, the one true God
has a Son, and John 17:3 says He sent Him to us. And the Bible testifies of this intimate relationship between these two distinct persons.
I'm sorry If I did not (before) make that clear. I am not a binitarian.
ps- I do not discount the HS as you say, I just do not accept this "three persons in one God" doctrine.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:05:17
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 15:28:37
Are you not the one who believes that Jesus and the Father are together God?
But we know that God is One, and that is where any of our thoughts about the nature of God must begin. Even discounting the HS as you do, you must recognize that if God is One but comprised of two as you believe, then it would be impossible to take away either the Father or the Son and still have God. Because even in your belief the God who is One is comprised of two.
I am not aware of a time when I said that the Father was 2 persons in one, both Father and Son. I do recall saying that the Father is the only Unbegotten God and the Son is God begotten of the Father. He shares in His nature.. because God begets God, but He is not the true Unbegotten God. There is a distinction. One is the Begetter, the other the Begotten. One is greater. Jesus made this clear, we should heed His words. The Son is worthy of worship because the Father commands it (Heb 1) for He does not give His glory to another [besides Him.]
The term "GOD" may be applied to both, since the true God begets God, not a creature. All "creation" is either made from nothing (or from existing materials.)
But no, I do not believe the one true God is Father and Son, the one true God has a Son, and John 17:3 says He sent Him to us. And the Bible testifies of this intimate relationship between these two distinct persons.
ps- I do not discount the HS as you say, I just do not accept the "three persons in one God" doctrine.
So you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God??
raggthyme7
Are you familiar with Barton Stone's view of the trinity doctrine?
ChristNU said
So you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God??
That does not necessarily follow.
: Johnb Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:14:57
ChristNU said
So you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God??
That does not necessarily follow.
Well, why don't we just wait and see what
she says? ::frown::
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
The word 'person' is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word 'person' is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say 'you,' 'yours,' 'me,' 'mine,' etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
They are each called God:
Father: Phil. 1:2
Son: John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9
Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3-4
Each has a will:
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Holy Spirit:1 Cor. 12:11
Each is all-knowing:
Father: 1 John 3:20
Son: John 16:30; 21:17
Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 2:10-11
Each has a will:
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 12:11
Each speaks:
Father: Matt. 3:17
Son: Luke 5:20
Holy Spirit: Acts 8:29; 13:2
Acts 5 does not call the HS God
Now we're in the bible is the HS called God
In Acts 5 a vow is made now we need to learn how do the Lord get our prayers or vows
This is what happened in Acts 5
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.
6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
A vow was made and vows ate made to God
Jesus told us who to pray to and ask for things to
When we pray or ask for things we pray or ask the Father not the HS
Matthew 6:7-9 (KJV)
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do : for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[8] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
: Johnb Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:11:01
raggthyme7
Are you familiar with Barton Stone's view of the trinity doctrine?
No, I'm not. I'll have to look that up. I find myself unable to adhere to any common theology, I'm not a
trinitarian. I'm not a
binitarian, And I'm not a
unitarian. I don't believe in
Modalism.. that one God manifests Himself in three different modes. (I didn't look that up so if I'm off a bit, sorry to any Modalists out there) If Phillips, Craig or Dean happen to be reading this, please clarify. ::smile::
I read Dialogue with Trypho many years ago and came to consider Justin's understanding of God from the Scriptures.. and though I disagree with him on certain aspects, I believe his understanding of this subject is much closer to Bible truth than any of the above.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:20:54
: Johnb Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:14:57
ChristNU said
So you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God??
That does not necessarily follow.
Well, why don't we just wait and see what she says? ::frown::
I just said I believe the Son is
God by nature but this is because He is begotten of God. God begets God, Jesus is
not created. He is also worthy of worship for the Father commands it. But Jesus is not the only true [Unbegotten] God. He is His Beloved Son, the one with whom He shares His glory. He lives because of the Father, the Father lives because of no one.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 17:21:10
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:20:54
: Johnb Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:14:57
ChristNU said
So you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God??
That does not necessarily follow.
Well, why don't we just wait and see what she says? ::frown::
I just said I believe the Son is God by nature but this is because He is begotten of God. God begets God, Jesus is not created. He is also worthy of worship for the Father commands it. But Jesus is not the only true [Unbegotten] God. He is His Beloved Son, the one with whom He shares His glory. He lives because of the Father, the Father lives because of no one.
And this is something that somehow makes more sense to you than the Trinity? Really?
What you describe is not a God who is One, but a God who is two. This contradicts Gods own revelation of Himself in scripture. You have a greater God and a lessor God, two Gods...not the One True God of the bible who is One.
If I have misunderstood please explain what it is you actually believe.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 17:36:36
And this is something that somehow makes more sense to you than the Trinity? Really?
What you describe is not a God who is One, but a God who is two. This contradicts Gods own revelation of Himself in scripture. You have a greater God and a lessor God, two Gods...not the One True God of the bible who is One.
If I have misunderstood please explain what it is you actually believe.
First, yes. The trinity caused only confusion when I read the Bible.
Again, neither am I a binitarian, they believe that the one true God exists in two persons... "Father and Son." This would
also contradict Jesus statement in John 17:3. It would then read:
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You [Father and Son]
the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
This makes no more sense than implementing the
trinitarian view of "God" here.
The one view of the only true God that makes perfect sense is this:
That they may know You [Father]
the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
I understand from Scripture that there is only one true God: the Father. (The Father is not three in one) This true God has a Son, not made, but begotten of His own substance (for lack of a better term). He is worshipped as God because He is worthy.. He is the only Begotten God.
You may see a greater God and a lesser God and have a problem with this, and I cannot explain it any better than I have. But David had no problem with this, saying, "The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand..." One is greater in that He is the Begetter and the Sender. Jesus told us this. The other is the Begotten and the Sent, and the One who ministers unto the Father's will. He derives His being from His Father, He shares in His glory because that is the Father's will, we worship Him because that is the Father's will.
I once read that the trinity was formulated out of a conundrum of sorts:
The Bible says there is only one true God, and yet we are told to worship Jesus. Therefore God must be more than one person, for we already have the Father. Jesus must be the second person of that one God. This way no one commits idolatry in their worship of Christ. I take a simpler approach.
* The Father is the one true God, and we are to worship no false god's, no statues, no creature. This would be committing idolatry.
* We worship Jesus why? Because He
must be part of the Godhead? No, but because the Father
commands it. He is not a false god, He is God's holy Son. I have no issue with that at all. In fact I don't see the big deal made by trinitarians.. saying unless Jesus is God (the only true God) He cannot be worshipped. Who says? God says the opposite.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 18:39:28
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 17:36:36
And this is something that somehow makes more sense to you than the Trinity? Really?
What you describe is not a God who is One, but a God who is two. This contradicts Gods own revelation of Himself in scripture. You have a greater God and a lessor God, two Gods...not the One True God of the bible who is One.
If I have misunderstood please explain what it is you actually believe.
First, yes. The trinity caused only confusion when I read the Bible.
Again, neither am I a binitarian, they believe that the one true God exists in two persons... "Father and Son." This would also contradict Jesus statement in John 17:3. It would then read:
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You [Father and Son] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
This makes no more sense than implementing the trinitarian view of "God" here.
The one view of the only true God that makes perfect sense is this:
That they may know You [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
I understand from Scripture that there is only one true God: the Father. (The Father is not three in one) This true God has a Son, not made, but begotten of His own substance (for lack of a better term). He is worshipped as God because He is worthy.. He is the only Begotten God.
You may see a greater God and a lesser God and have a problem with this, and I cannot explain it any better than I have. But David had no problem with this, saying, "The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand..." One is greater in that He is the Begetter and the Sender. Jesus told us this. The other is the Begotten and the Sent, and the One who ministers unto the Father's will. He derives His being from His Father, He shares in His glory because that is the Father's will, we worship Him because that is the Father's will.
I once read that the trinity was formulated out of a conundrum of sorts: The Bible says there is only one true God, and yet we are told to worship Jesus. Therefore God must be more than one person, for we already have the Father. Jesus must be the second person of that one God. This way no one commits idolatry in their worship of Christ.
I take a simpler approach.
* The Father is the one true God, and we are to worship no false god's, no statues, no creature. This would be committing idolatry.
* We worship Jesus why? Because He must be part of the Godhead? No, but because the Father commands it. He is not a false god, He is God's holy Son. I have no issue with that at all. In fact I don't see the big deal made by trinitarians.. saying unless Jesus is God (the only true God) He cannot be worshipped. Who says? God says the opposite.
Okay, I gotcha now. Just so you know, what you believe is called "subordinationism"...the belief in the ontological superiority or inferiority of divine persons. The reason it has been rejected by Christianity is because, just as you have shown, you end up with demi-gods and second class deities; which destroys the essential oneness of God.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:01:33
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 18:39:28
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 17:36:36
And this is something that somehow makes more sense to you than the Trinity? Really?
What you describe is not a God who is One, but a God who is two. This contradicts Gods own revelation of Himself in scripture. You have a greater God and a lessor God, two Gods...not the One True God of the bible who is One.
If I have misunderstood please explain what it is you actually believe.
First, yes. The trinity caused only confusion when I read the Bible.
Again, neither am I a binitarian, they believe that the one true God exists in two persons... "Father and Son." This would also contradict Jesus statement in John 17:3. It would then read:
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You [Father and Son] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
This makes no more sense than implementing the trinitarian view of "God" here.
The one view of the only true God that makes perfect sense is this:
That they may know You [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
I understand from Scripture that there is only one true God: the Father. (The Father is not three in one) This true God has a Son, not made, but begotten of His own substance (for lack of a better term). He is worshipped as God because He is worthy.. He is the only Begotten God.
You may see a greater God and a lesser God and have a problem with this, and I cannot explain it any better than I have. But David had no problem with this, saying, "The LORD said to my Lord, sit at my right hand..." One is greater in that He is the Begetter and the Sender. Jesus told us this. The other is the Begotten and the Sent, and the One who ministers unto the Father's will. He derives His being from His Father, He shares in His glory because that is the Father's will, we worship Him because that is the Father's will.
I once read that the trinity was formulated out of a conundrum of sorts: The Bible says there is only one true God, and yet we are told to worship Jesus. Therefore God must be more than one person, for we already have the Father. Jesus must be the second person of that one God. This way no one commits idolatry in their worship of Christ.
I take a simpler approach.
* The Father is the one true God, and we are to worship no false god's, no statues, no creature. This would be committing idolatry.
* We worship Jesus why? Because He must be part of the Godhead? No, but because the Father commands it. He is not a false god, He is God's holy Son. I have no issue with that at all. In fact I don't see the big deal made by trinitarians.. saying unless Jesus is God (the only true God) He cannot be worshipped. Who says? God says the opposite.
Okay, I gotcha now. Just so you know, what you believe is called "subordinationism"...the belief in the ontological superiority or inferiority of divine persons. The reason it has been rejected by Christianity is because, just as you have shown, you end up with demi-gods and second class deities; which destroys the essential oneness of God.
Of course the essential oneness of God in the sense of Trinity is a presupposition of the folks that won the council debate. It's a lot like saying you lost because you didn't agree with us.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 14:41:44
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 13:09:29
The Bible teaches that God is Three in One. It is substantiated all throughout.
Are you saying the "only true God" is three in one???
I want to hear how you wiggle around John 17:3. The Father is only one of three persons, according to trinitarianism. According to Jesus, the Father is the one and "only true God". Because everything comes from Him... He is not dependent upon any other for life. Jesus said He lives because of the Father... you cannot say the Father lives because of anyone. He is the only true [Unbegotten] God!
According to John 17:3, you are then saying the Father is
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Nonsense and confusion. Yet the trinitarian will comfort the poor soul who struggles with this confusion by saying "man just cannot understand the mystery of the Godhead." Not buying it.
God consists of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Nothing confusing about it.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:01:33
Okay, I gotcha now. Just so you know, what you believe is called "subordinationism"...the belief in the ontological superiority or inferiority of divine persons. The reason it has been rejected by Christianity is because, just as you have shown, you end up with demi-gods and second class deities; which destroys the essential oneness of God.
subordinationism
the theological tenet of progressively declining essence within the Trinity. — subordinationist, n.
a doctrine in theology: the second and third persons of the Trinity are subordinate (as in order or essence) to the first person and the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Son.
Nope, not that either. Subordinationists still believe in a trinity.
: howard Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 16:34:26
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 01:51:01
The word 'person' is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word 'person' is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say 'you,' 'yours,' 'me,' 'mine,' etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
Are there verses that show that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God, each indwell, each have a will, each loves, etc.? Yes there are.
They are each called God:
Father: Phil. 1:2
Son: John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9
Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3-4
Each has a will:
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Holy Spirit:1 Cor. 12:11
Each is all-knowing:
Father: 1 John 3:20
Son: John 16:30; 21:17
Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 2:10-11
Each has a will:
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Holy Spirit: 1 Cor. 12:11
Each speaks:
Father: Matt. 3:17
Son: Luke 5:20
Holy Spirit: Acts 8:29; 13:2
Acts 5 does not call the HS God
Now we're in the bible is the HS called God
Yes it does call Holy Spirit God. Now you are arguing with God.
In Acts 5 a vow is made now we need to learn how do the Lord get our prayers or vows
This is what happened in Acts 5
Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 (KJV)
When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.
[5] Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.
6] Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
A vow was made and vows ate made to God
Jesus told us who to pray to and ask for things to
When we pray or ask for things we pray or ask the Father not the HS
Matthew 6:7-9 (KJV)
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do : for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
[8] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Why are you changing the subject?
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:16:14
Nothing confusing about it.
That's funny, Lively! rofl
: HRoberson Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:12:55
Of course the essential oneness of God in the sense of Trinity is a presupposition of the folks that won the council debate. It's a lot like saying you lost because you didn't agree with us.
Presupposition indeed.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:22:11
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:01:33
Okay, I gotcha now. Just so you know, what you believe is called "subordinationism"...the belief in the ontological superiority or inferiority of divine persons. The reason it has been rejected by Christianity is because, just as you have shown, you end up with demi-gods and second class deities; which destroys the essential oneness of God.
subordinationism
the theological tenet of progressively declining essence within the Trinity. — subordinationist, n.
a doctrine in theology: the second and third persons of the Trinity are subordinate (as in order or essence) to the first person and the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Son.
Nope, not that either. Subordinationists still believe in a trinity.
Obviously it would be non-Trinitarian subordinationism. Fits you like a glove.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:33:59
: HRoberson Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:12:55
Of course the essential oneness of God in the sense of Trinity is a presupposition of the folks that won the council debate. It's a lot like saying you lost because you didn't agree with us.
Presupposition indeed.
I didn't say I didn't agree with the Trinity concept, just that it is a concept that must be sewn together by appealing to a variety of Scripture. In relationship to this latest post, that the declaring of another concept as heresy is a result of political maneuvering and vote rather than any guarantee of "rightness." It was in fact, a presupposition of those who held it at the beginning of any deliberations.
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:53:53
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:22:11
: ChristNU Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:01:33
Okay, I gotcha now. Just so you know, what you believe is called "subordinationism"...the belief in the ontological superiority or inferiority of divine persons. The reason it has been rejected by Christianity is because, just as you have shown, you end up with demi-gods and second class deities; which destroys the essential oneness of God.
subordinationism
the theological tenet of progressively declining essence within the Trinity. — subordinationist, n.
a doctrine in theology: the second and third persons of the Trinity are subordinate (as in order or essence) to the first person and the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Son.
Nope, not that either. Subordinationists still believe in a trinity.
Obviously it would be non-Trinitarian subordinationism. Fits you like a glove.
::giggle:: that's an oxymoron. Defies the very definition of Subordinationism.
Subordinationism is called a heresy
concerning the trinity. You can't have the one without the other.
Nah, I just believe Jesus (John 6:57, 14:28, 17:3 etc)... I'd still like to know how trinitarians wiggle around 17:3. ::pondering::
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:27:39
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 19:16:14
Nothing confusing about it.
That's funny, Lively! rofl
Why is that funny? I believe what God presents in His word, and He presents Himself as three persons in one---always has and always will. It is your lack of understanding that hides behind the guffaws.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 20:17:51
Why is that funny?
You said "nothing confusing about it"
God is one, but God is three... but God is one... yes, perfectly understandable. That's why there's been no debate about it over the centuries... ::doh::
I think it's much more honest to call it a "mystery" like so many do.. one that "we just can't wrap our heads around." You choose to elevate yourself above any Christian who's ever had a hard time getting it.
Look online, you'll see many, many questions about the trinity.. from
trinitarians of all people. Guess they need a lesson from you, Lively. ::nodding::
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 21:05:08
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 20:17:51
Why is that funny?
You said "nothing confusing about it"
God is one, but God is three... but God is one... yes, perfectly understandable. That's why there's been no debate about it over the centuries... ::doh::
I think it's much more honest to call it a "mystery" like so many do.. one that "we just can't wrap our heads around." You choose to elevate yourself above any Christian who's ever had a hard time getting it.
Look online, you'll see many, many questions about the trinity.. from trinitarians of all people. Guess they need a lesson from you, Lively. ::nodding::
Debating doesn't mean that both sides are confused. Only one. I am aware that it is considered a mystery, and it is---but we who are Christ's have the keys the mysteries of God.
Luke 8:10And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.'
1 Corinthians 4:1Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????...
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )......
John 6:44
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 22:39:56
I am aware that it is considered a mystery, and it is---but we who are Christ's have the keys the mysteries of God.
Luke 8:10
And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.'
1 Corinthians 4:1
Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 verses taken completely out of context.
: raggthyme7 Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 23:00:27
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 22:39:56
I am aware that it is considered a mystery, and it is---but we who are Christ's have the keys the mysteries of God.
Luke 8:10
And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.'
1 Corinthians 4:1
Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 verses taken completely out of context.
Your beliefs are out of context. I have no concerns on that score.
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
Hi I put the full one in
Yes John 6:44 is correct and that is why The Holy Spirit is used and not the father so we then can go to Jesus and then and only then we can come to the father.
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 23:57:09
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
Hi I put the full one in
Yes John 6:44 is correct and that is why The Holy Spirit is used and not the father so we then can go to Jesus and then and only then we can come to the father.
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him............
You say the Holy Spirit is used and NOT the Father... Jesus says the Father is the one who draws. I will believe Jesus :)
The Father works by His Spirit to draw men to Himself. That is what Holy Spirit does. It's His job!
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 00:41:19
The Father works by His Spirit to draw men to Himself. That is what Holy Spirit does. It's His job!
Exactly. Bemark says it is
not the Father who draws, Jesus says it
is the Father who draws. But truly it is the Father working
through His Spirit; the Truth which proceeds from the Father, drawing men to Jesus Christ. (1 John 5:6)
The Truth brings conviction, the Word that goes out from His mouth does not return void. But in the end it
is the Father who draws. The Truth is the the means by which He does this.
raggthyme7
Think about what you are saying. It is much more confusing than any view of God I have ever seen presented. You say there is only one true God but He made Jesus. That makes Jesus a created being not everlasting to everlasting. It also makes Jesus NOT the true God. So how can a false God be our savior and what or who do you think the Holy Spirit is? You can't have it both ways say that there is only one God but He made some more Gods. That smacks of Greek mythology or WJ theology. I think you are simply confused about what you believe.
I'm going to ask again since my question still hasn't been answered.
If 3 are 1 and 1 are 3, how come I can blaspheme God and Jesus and be forgiven but not the holy spirit?
Bitter
Here is what I understand. God first presented Himself and was rejected. Christ was also rejected and gave His life for our sins. Then the Holy spirit was sent to perfect the word and convict men of their lost state. He is the last life line. If we reject Him there are no more life lines to be offered. I presented that in a form that a traditional trinity believer could understand even though I an not a traditional trinatarian. Like Barton Stone I hold to the personification view of God. God is not going to present Himself in another form so if we reject His HS we have no hope.
Thanks Johnb, that makes sense, in fact you put it in way to understand why the HS is required. I just don't understand how all 3 are 1 if I can't reject one of them without forgiveness. Why not say I can reject 2 out of 3 of any of them since they are equal in the trinity and still be forgiven? Maybe my question isn't clear, it's about as hard to ask as the trinity is to understand for some!
I'm not advocating that it's ok to reject any 2 out of the 3, it's just a question regarding the equality in the trinity.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 00:28:00
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 23:57:09
: bemark Thu Jul 19, 2012 - 04:08:46
Do we need 2 or 3?
Lets look at this
Lets take 2 first
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
So we know here that Jesus(2) is the only way to the father(1) because we cant even have relationship with the father(1) except through the son(2).
so if there is only 2, then it must be the father that draws us..... but how can we start to have relationship with the Father before going through the son first?????
10 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
OK now we have 3
1.The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin first and draws us to Christ ( before we can go to the father )
2. then we go through the son ( he becomes the door)
3. to the father.
3 working together as one
Hi I put the full one in
Yes John 6:44 is correct and that is why The Holy Spirit is used and not the father so we then can go to Jesus and then and only then we can come to the father.
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him............
You say the Holy Spirit is used and NOT the Father... Jesus says the Father is the one who draws. I will believe Jesus :)
The Holy Spirit is obedient or one with the father like Jesus is because there is one purpose and that is to bring us to them
Outside of the Blood can we see or have relationship with God almighty?
No we cant so in his mercy he releases his holy spirit to draw us to repentance to Jesus (Who came from him) and now and only now can we start to get to know God because we are cleansed by the blood.
Bitter
since this is the non traditional board I will present my non traditional view of God. I believe there is but one God. He is all knowing all powerful and all present or able to be in all places at the same time. If He can be in all places at the same time. Therefore it is no problem for Him to present Himself in the form of the man Jesus and later as the Holy Spirit. IMO Jesus (God) used the terms Father, Son and Holy Spirit to help humans relate and understand how He was working. In short I see one God who has presented Himself to man in 3 personifications, I also do not see this as a salvation issue except when folks try to make Jesus a created God who is not eternal.
: Johnb Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 10:52:58
Bitter
Here is what I understand. God first presented Himself and was rejected. Christ was also rejected and gave His life for our sins. Then the Holy spirit was sent to perfect the word and convict men of their lost state. He is the last life line. If we reject Him there are no more life lines to be offered. I presented that in a form that a traditional trinity believer could understand even though I an not a traditional trinatarian. Like Barton Stone I hold to the personification view of God. God is not going to present Himself in another form so if we reject His HS we have no hope.
where is this written?
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 01:14:00
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 00:41:19
The Father works by His Spirit to draw men to Himself. That is what Holy Spirit does. It's His job!
Exactly. Bemark says it is not the Father who draws, Jesus says it is the Father who draws. But truly it is the Father working through His Spirit; the Truth which proceeds from the Father, drawing men to Jesus Christ. (1 John 5:6)
The Truth brings conviction, the Word that goes out from His mouth does not return void. But in the end it is the Father who draws. The Truth is the the means by which He does this.
Genesis 1:26
And God said,
Let us make man in
our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
these is more than one God. the question is how many.
we know there is a God who is the Father
we know there is a God who is the Son
we have the word us and we have the word our in the first chapter of Genesis in the creation.
we cannot deny this.
there is only two in the Godhead
Solomon told us
Proverbs 30:3-5 (King James Version)
3I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
4Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
what is his name?
what is his Son's name?
Isaiah said
Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
we have a God speaking who says that
"I dwell" 1
"with him" 2
Notice the HS is not mentioned
someone made a comment about the HS and how we receive him
lets read what the bible says how man receive the HS
in order to receive or have the HS comforter or spirit of truth whatever you want to call him you must keep the commandments
11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
the commandments of God must be kept according to Jesus before anyone can receive the HS.
we read it above!!
: Bitter Sweet Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 09:14:49
I'm going to ask again since my question still hasn't been answered.
If 3 are 1 and 1 are 3, how come I can blaspheme God and Jesus and be forgiven but not the holy spirit?
It's kind of hard to be forgiven for blaspheming Holy Spirit when it is Holy Spirit's job to bring you to repentance. You wouldn't exactly be listening to Him, and on top of that you would have grieved Him and driven Him away.
: Bitter Sweet Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 09:14:49
I'm going to ask again since my question still hasn't been answered.
If 3 are 1 and 1 are 3, how come I can blaspheme God and Jesus and be forgiven but not the holy spirit?
you are not!!
blaspheming the word of God has nothing to do with the HS, Comforter or spirit of truth
Blaspheming the word of God is this
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [/color]
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
we have people who know God, they were showed the truth, yet the chose to teach in in unrighteousness
yes the word of God is spirit and it is holy
lets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
ask yourself this do you live by every spirit/word that comes from Jesus mouth?
he said so
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
lets read what Jesus said is the job of the comforter, the spirit of truth, the HS
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
The comforter cannot speak nothing of himself, NOTHING!
is this not odd if he is GOD the HS?
consider what you read
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
maybe someone can explain why Jesus who is God and the HS who some say is God cannot be on the earth at the same time?
: Johnb Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 07:11:49
raggthyme7
Think about what you are saying. It is much more confusing than any view of God I have ever seen presented. You say there is only one true God but He made Jesus. That makes Jesus a created being not everlasting to everlasting. It also makes Jesus NOT the true God. So how can a false God be our savior and what or who do you think the Holy Spirit is? You can't have it both ways say that there is only one God but He made some more Gods. That smacks of Greek mythology or WJ theology. I think you are simply confused about what you believe.
Hi Johnb,
Not really, it seems rather simple to me. I'll go over it again for those who might be (just now) tuning in.
I believe:
The Father is the only true God. There is no other Unbegotten. The Father is
not three persons in one.
The Father has a Son. (sons are not created, they are begotten of their father's substance.) He's shared in His Father's glory from before the world was. David himself understood there are two Lords. One ministers to the other's will in all things.
The Spirit is truth (1 John 5) the
spring of life which proceeds from both the Father and His Son... not a
third and distinct person with which the Father and His Son have an intimate relationship.
I see you are a Unitarian? At least we can agree on the trinity. We both believe God is one (singular) do we not? The difference is that you say He manifests Himself as Father, then again as Son, and as Spirit. Please correct me about your views if I'm wrong.
If that's the case, He is having intimate relationship with Himself, not with another rational being.
I differ there, my friend. There is a real relationship between two distinct persons: the one God, and His Son who is begotten of Him.
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:36:57
: Johnb Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 07:11:49
raggthyme7
Think about what you are saying. It is much more confusing than any view of God I have ever seen presented. You say there is only one true God but He made Jesus. That makes Jesus a created being not everlasting to everlasting. It also makes Jesus NOT the true God. So how can a false God be our savior and what or who do you think the Holy Spirit is? You can't have it both ways say that there is only one God but He made some more Gods. That smacks of Greek mythology or WJ theology. I think you are simply confused about what you believe.
Hi Johnb,
Not really, it seems rather simple to me. I'll go over it again for those who might be (just now) tuning in.
I believe:
The Father is the only true God. There is no other Unbegotten. The Father is not three persons in one.
The Father has a Son. (Sons are not created, they are begotten of their father's substance.) He's shared in His Father's glory from before the world was. David himself understood there are two Lords. One ministers to the other's will in all things.
The Spirit is Truth (1 John 5) and proceeds from both the Father and His Son... not a third and distinct person with which the Father and His Son have an intimate relationship.
I see you are a Unitarian? At least we can agree on the trinity. We both believe God is one (singular) do we not? The difference is that you say he manifests himself as Father, then again as Son, and as Spirit. Please correct me about your views if I'm wrong.
If that's the case, He is having intimate relationship with Himself, not with another rational being.
I differ there, my friend. There is a real relationship between two distinct persons: the one God, and His Son who is begotten of Him.
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
is Jesus God?
the Son Jesus has a God
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
surely he was not calling himself
man has a God who becamse Jesus the Son of God
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
thomas was there he should know
Jesus is God
Jesus Father is God
care to add anymore?
take a look at the conversation going on here for the Unitarians and Trinitarians please chime in
Psalm 55
1Give ear to my prayer, O God; and hide not thyself from my supplication.
2Attend unto me, and hear me: I mourn in my complaint, and make a noise;
11Wickedness is in the midst thereof: deceit and guile depart not from her streets.
12For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:
13But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.
14We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:26:46
lets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
Thanks because I was wondering this also. The spirit of truth lives in us, us is multiple. Is the spirit of truth the same as the HS? This verse makes the spirit of truth null to the world, therefore there wouldn't be a worldwide teaching of the trinity because that would contradict the spirit of truth making him acceptable.
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
: Bitter Sweet Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:55:32
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:26:46
lets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
Thanks because I was wondering this also. The spirit of truth lives in us, us is multiple. Is the spirit of truth the same as the HS? This verse makes the spirit of truth null to the world, therefore there wouldn't be a worldwide teaching of the trinity because that would contradict the spirit of truth making him acceptable.
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Hi Sis
if we can get the people to just think about what is written
if God the HS is in us would we sin?
if God HS is in us would we need to read and quote the bible?
we all would be on the same page whatever Christians denomination we belong to
God the HS would be in all of us and we would be saying the same same words to each other.
that is why I put the job function of the HS
blaspheming the word of God is teaching the truth or God's word wrong intentionally.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45
is Jesus God?
Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:01:28
: Bitter Sweet Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:55:32
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:26:46
lets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
Thanks because I was wondering this also. The spirit of truth lives in us, us is multiple. Is the spirit of truth the same as the HS? This verse makes the spirit of truth null to the world, therefore there wouldn't be a worldwide teaching of the trinity because that would contradict the spirit of truth making him acceptable.
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Hi Sis
if we can get the people to just think about what is written
if God the HS is in us would we sin? No, we are holy
if God HS is in us would we need to read and quote the bible? No, it is written in our hearts
we all would be on the same page whatever Christians denomination we belong to
God the HS would be in all of us and we would be saying the same same words to each other. We are not the ones that caused the divisions or encourage them.
that is why I put the job function of the HS
I put my answers in maroon.
Philippians 2:5-7
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
see how this lines up with Psalm 55
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:43:24
the Son Jesus has a God
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
surely he was not calling himself
man has a God who becamse Jesus the Son of God
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
thomas was there he should know
Jesus is God
Jesus Father is God
care to add anymore?
Do you find your beliefs in line with Binitarianism?
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:03:25
blaspheming the word of God is teaching the truth or God's word wrong intentionally.
There's a heap of people in trouble because of all the different denominations.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45
is Jesus God?
Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.
is Jesus God?
not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.
is Jesus God according the bible
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45
is Jesus God?
Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.
is Jesus God?
not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.
is Jesus God according the bible
Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 12:59:53
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
these is more than one God. the question is how many.
Deuteronomy 6:4"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God,
the Lord is one!
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:14:11
someone made a comment about the HS and how we receive him
lets read what the bible says how man receive the HS
in order to receive or have the HS comforter or spirit of truth whatever you want to call him you must keep the commandments
11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
the commandments of God must be kept according to Jesus before anyone can receive the HS.
we read it above!!
Nonsense. We are already people who love Him and obey His commandments if we have received salvation! Once saved, we have the Holy Spirit indwelling, but there is far more of Him available to us! We must be in relationship with Jesus Christ in order that we receive the baptism of Holy Spirit---just ask Him for it.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:35:23
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
maybe someone can explain why Jesus who is God and the HS who some say is God cannot be on the earth at the same time?
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body. He left us and sent His Spirit to do the works of Christ in the world, as He can be omnipresent.
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:25:04
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45
is Jesus God?
Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.
is Jesus God?
not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.
is Jesus God according the bible
Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
"But to us there is but
one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You
the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:
"But to us there is but
one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Which view of
God makes more sense in this verse?
a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:
"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Which definition of God makes more sense in this verse?
a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit
You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:20:10
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:
"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?
a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit
You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
You say the apostles believed the one God is a trinity- no, that's what
you believe.
Paul says there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's
one God is not comprised of three persons.
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.This is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:28:34
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:20:10
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:
"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?
a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit
You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
You say the apostles believed the one God is a trinity- no, that's what you believe.
Paul says there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons.
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
This is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
Yes, Paul trusted the God as Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.That is what He taught.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
: Johnb Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 11:42:03
Bitter
since this is the non traditional board I will present my non traditional view of God. I believe there is but one God. He is all knowing all powerful and all present or able to be in all places at the same time. If He can be in all places at the same time. Therefore it is no problem for Him to present Himself in the form of the man Jesus and later as the Holy Spirit. IMO Jesus (God) used the terms Father, Son and Holy Spirit to help humans relate and understand how He was working. In short I see one God who has presented Himself to man in 3 personifications, I also do not see this as a salvation issue except when folks try to make Jesus a created God who is not eternal.
I only understand the unforgivable from what the bible say's that if we blaspheme the HS. It says that we can say anything against the Son of Man. We have an advocate between us and God, Jesus when it comes to us sinning unwittingly.
Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
I have another question Johnb, do you think the HS and the spirit of truth are the same?
raggthyme7
I don't often use proof text but this one seems clear. Many other passage teach that the HS is not just the word. It is important to know that we did not have the written word for many years after Acts and most of the NT was written. But in Acts 2 they were told they would receive the gift of (not from) the HS.
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off —for all whom the Lord our God will call."
You ask where my view of trinity was written. I plainly stated it was my opinion. The concept of God being eternal, all knowing all seeing and having the ability to be everywhere at the same time are all concepts that are clearly taught in scripture.
At Christ's baptism we have the voice of God, the physical man Jesus and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove. That simply does not fit with your 2 theory. I don't know that we will fully understand the concept of God this side of eternity. However like I said I do not see acceptance of the traditional view of the trinity as a salvation issue. The problem I see with you theory you keep saying that God is the only true God. That by any normal logic makes Jesus not a true God and therefore without the ability to forgive sin and be our atonement.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person
distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a
distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
1.Deuteronomy 17:15
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
Deuteronomy 17:14-16 (in Context) Deuteronomy 17 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2.Deuteronomy 20:14
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Deuteronomy 20:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3.Isaiah 43:3
For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 43:2-4 (in Context) Isaiah 43 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4.Isaiah 48:17
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 48:16-18 (in Context) Isaiah 48 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5.Isaiah 54:5
For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isaiah 54:4-6 (in Context) Isaiah 54 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6.Isaiah 55:5
Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 55:4-6 (in Context) Isaiah 55 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
: Johnb Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:07:52
raggthyme7
I don't often use proof text but this one seems clear. Many other passage teach that the HS is not just the word. It is important to know that we did not have the written word for many years after Acts and most of the NT was written. But in Acts 2 they were told they would receive the gift of (not from) the HS.
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off —for all whom the Lord our God will call."
You ask where my view of trinity was written. I plainly stated it was my opinion. The concept of God being eternal, all knowing all seeing and having the ability to be everywhere at the same time are all concepts that are clearly taught in scripture.
At Christ's baptism we have the voice of God, the physical man Jesus and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove. That simply does not fit with your 2 theory. I don't know that we will fully understand the concept of God this side of eternity. However like I said I do not see acceptance of the traditional view of the trinity as a salvation issue. The problem I see with you theory you keep saying that God is the only true God. That by any normal logic makes Jesus not a true God and therefore without the ability to forgive sin and be our atonement.
Johnb,
First, I did not ask you where it was written, but I believe howard did.
I'm not the first to say
the Father is the only true God.. Jesus says it (John 17:3) and Paul said it (1 Cor 8:6). Now we have at least two bearing witness to this truth.
Their testimony does not make Jesus a
false god.. in contrast with the
true. Rather, He is the [Begotten] Son of the true [Unbegotten] God! One God, one Son, one Spirit.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that I believe the Holy Spirit is the written word. Is that what you were saying? Maybe I misunderstood you. I did agree with John that the Spirit is truth. (1 John 5:6) Totally different concept. That's like saying the Bible is the word of God and Jesus is the Word of God so Jesus must be the Bible. Some may believe this but I do not.
I'm also not sure how you come to this conclusion that I don't believe the Father, His Son and His Holy Spirit were all present at Christ's baptism.. it's clear from Scripture all were present.. I just differ on definition of terms with trinitarians, unitarians, binitarians, arians etc.
I have no "theory of 2" as you say. That would be binitarianism and I've already mentioned that I'm not into that.
One question for you that I see you didn't get into... in
modalism, wouldn't God be having an intimate relationship with Himself?
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:35:23
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
maybe someone can explain why Jesus who is God and the HS who some say is God cannot be on the earth at the same time?
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body. He left us and sent His Spirit to do the works of Christ in the world, as He can be omnipresent.
Why can't the holy spirit be here while the Lord is on the earth?
Let's look at it again
Here is Jesus on the earth as Melchizadek
Genesis 14:18-20 (KJV)
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
[19] And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
[20] And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
The HS is not present
In the trinity where does Melchizadek fit?
He is God
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word
It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit
Pay attention now
Angels = spirits
Let's read where the angels are called holy
Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Holy angels or holy spirits
On holy angel or one holy spirit
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Who is the liar?
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Jesus said that the HS cannot come unless he goes
The HS cannot be on earth while Jesus is on the earth
Jesus taught for 3.5 years
The HS job is teach
Who is the Master teacher?
Who has to take a back seat in the class room?
Let's get understanding
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:25:04
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45
is Jesus God?
Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.
is Jesus God?
not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.
is Jesus God according the bible
Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
Fortunately you can't read that in the bible
But we can read and we did where he called Jesus God
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:
"But to us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?
a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit
1 Corinthians 8
Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
[2] And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
[9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
raggthyme7
I was thinking of answering both you and Howard and was distracted by things going on in my house and mingled the 2. Sorry that happens when you get old and deal with grand kids. ::tippinghat::
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:43:35
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:28:34
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:20:10
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:
"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?
a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit
You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
You say the apostles believed the one God is a trinity- no, that's what you believe.
Paul says there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons.
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
This is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
Yes, Paul trusted the God as Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.
That is what He taught.
Paul taught Jesus
Acts 28:23 (KJV)
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 26:22 (KJV)
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Acts 24:14 (KJV)
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Paul said Jesus is God
2Corinthians 1:19-21 (KJV)
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. [20] For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. [21] Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
Quote raggthyme7
I'm not the first to say the Father is the only true God.. Jesus says it (John 17:3) and Paul said it (1 Cor 8:6). Now we have at least two bearing witness to this truth
The problem that comes with using prooftext is much is lost in translation from one language to another.
The Greek word holoteles (as close as I can get without Greek letters) literally means "complete to the end ie absolutely perfect-wholly. " Strong's Complete Dictionary Not exactly the same thing as true but that was as close as you could get with English and stay concise.
Now as far as Paul's statement I have not denied that there is one God.
Now I have presented my views and why I hold them and you have done the same. I don't feel a need to attempt to prove I am right and you are wrong. Like I said I don't think we will know this side of eternity. That is why my communication with Howard is limited it seems he must prove he is absolutely correct on a subject that IMO there is no absolute.
Later brother.
: Johnb Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 19:43:33
Quote raggthyme7
I'm not the first to say the Father is the only true God.. Jesus says it (John 17:3) and Paul said it (1 Cor 8:6). Now we have at least two bearing witness to this truth
The problem that comes with using prooftext is much is lost in translation from one language to another.
The Greek word holoteles (as close as I can get without Greek letters) literally means "complete to the end ie absolutely perfect-wholly. " Strong's Complete Dictionary Not exactly the same thing as true but that was as close as you could get with English and stay concise.
Now as far as Paul's statement I have not denied that there is one God.
Now I have presented my views and why I hold them and you have done the same. I don't feel a need to attempt to prove I am right and you are wrong. Like I said I don't think we will know this side of eternity. That is why my communication with Howard is limited it seems he must prove he is absolutely correct on a subject that IMO there is no absolute.
Later brother.
I understand.. would you just comment on the relationship question I had? I cannot see how you could be a modalist and not believe God was having a relationship with himself.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:52:11
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
All I can say is that you don't know Paul very well. Scripture paints a portrait of a triune God. Holy Spirit is the one who teaches it. When you deny Him His rightful place, it's no wonder you cannot see it.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:47:00
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Jesus said that the HS cannot come unless he goes
The HS cannot be on earth while Jesus is on the earth
What does this have to do with what I said to Lively? I agree with you
because that's what Jesus said. (John 16)
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.
Quote
I understand.. would you just comment on the relationship question I had? I cannot see how you could be a modalist and not believe God was having a relationship with himself.
Sorry brother but I don't even understand the question. What relationship are you talking about? I believe God simply presented Himself in ways that we could understand. A Father and son and a good friend that comforts us (HS). The problem I have with Christ being a created or begotten IMO it would be no different that a parent that had a child to sacrifice to save another child that needs a body part to save him. That is not my view of a just God. The other problem I have is why would a God that has all power and can be every where at once have the need to create another eternal spirit to be a sacrifice? Or do you think Jesus became eternal and was a worthy sacrifice because he lived a sinless life?
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word
It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit
Pay attention now
Angels = spirits
Let's read where the angels are called holy
Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Holy angels or holy spirits
On holy angel or one holy spirit
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Who is the liar?
You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining them just obfuscates the issue, here.
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:52:39
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:25:04
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45
is Jesus God?
Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.
is Jesus God?
not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.
is Jesus God according the bible
Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.
Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.
Fortunately you can't read that in the bible
But we can read and we did where he called Jesus God
Yeah...I did read it in the Bible. Unfortunately, you have missed it.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:24:38
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:52:11
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
All I can say is that you don't know Paul very well. Scripture paints a portrait of a triune God. Holy Spirit is the one who teaches it. When you deny Him His rightful place, it's no wonder you cannot see it.
I'm not talking about painting pictures.. anyone can piece scriptures together to form a doctrine. I'm talking about
clear-cut statements made by Jesus Himself and by Paul.
Let me ask you this..
Jesus says
the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Clear-cut statement.
Paul agrees saying there is but one God
the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6.) Clear as crystal.
Trinitarianism disagrees: the
only true God is
not the Father, the one God is actually comprised of 3 distinct persons,
the Father is only one of three.
Who should we believe?
a. Jesus and Paul
b. trinitarians
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.
Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?
Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh.
Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder
another person from being everywhere at once?
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:08:31
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:24:38
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:52:11
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.
Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)
One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.
Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.
All I can say is that you don't know Paul very well. Scripture paints a portrait of a triune God. Holy Spirit is the one who teaches it. When you deny Him His rightful place, it's no wonder you cannot see it.
I'm not talking about painting pictures.. anyone can piece scriptures together to form a doctrine. I'm talking about clear-cut statements made by Jesus Himself and by Paul.
Let me ask you this..
Jesus says the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Clear-cut statement.
Paul agrees saying there is but one God the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6.) Clear as crystal.
Trinitarianism disagrees: the only true God is not the Father, the one God is actually comprised of 3 distinct persons, the Father is only one of three.
Who should we believe?
a. Jesus and Paul
b. trinitarians
Why shouldn't Jesus the Son take the submissive role and declare the Father? That is the role of Sonship! You just don't understand the Trinity. You aren't alone, but you needn't make any issue of it.
Johnb,
I put your words in bold text:
I cannot see how you could be a modalist and not believe God was having a relationship with himself.
Sorry brother but I don't even understand the question. What relationship are you talking about?
The one the Father has with His Son throughout all the Bible... starting in Genesis 1... all the way through to Revelation. ???
I believe God simply presented Himself in ways that we could understand. A Father and son and a good friend that comforts us (HS).
So to start, if God is presenting Himself as Father and as Son.. there is no real intimate relationship between two distinct and rational beings. Is that where you stand?
The problem I have with Christ being a created or begotten IMO it would be no different that a parent that had a child to sacrifice to save another child that needs a body part to save him. That is not my view of a just God. The other problem I have is why would a God that has all power and can be every where at once have the need to create another eternal spirit to be a sacrifice?
Again, the Son is Begotten, not made. I'm sure you've heard of The Drawbridge Keeper. Which would be more difficult, sacrificing yourself to save others.. or making a choice between a trainload of people and your own child?
God made the greatest and most difficult sacrifice:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son....
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.
Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?
Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?
I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?
He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!
If you cannot see that, then you need a boatload of prayer. ::prayinghard::
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:01:31
Why shouldn't Jesus the Son take the submissive role and declare the Father? That is the role of Sonship!
No problem in Him declaring the Father! The problem for trinitarians is that He declared the first Person of their trinity as the
only true God, and Himself as being sent by this God. This truth contradicts your belief system.
If you're going to use the "Son is submissive" argument, what of
Paul's statement? He does not teach that the Father is only
one of three persons, He says in 1 Cor 8:6 that there is but
one God: and this is
the Father.
Is the Father that Paul speaks of then Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
No ma'am, the Father is the only true God, Jesus is His only Begotten Son, the Spirit is the breath of life proceeding from both of them. That's what רוּחַ is!
The trinity is contrary to Bible truth. Sorry.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:31:00
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:01:31
Why shouldn't Jesus the Son take the submissive role and declare the Father? That is the role of Sonship!
No problem in Him declaring the Father! The problem for trinitarians is that He declared the first Person of their trinity as the only true God, and Himself as being sent by this God. This truth contradicts your belief system.
If your going to use the "Son is submissive" argument, what of Paul's statement? He does not teach that the Father is only one of three persons, He says in 1 Cor 8:6 that there is only one God: and this is the Father.
Is the Father that Paul speaks of then Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
No, the Father is the only true God, Jesus is His only Begotten Son, the Spirit is the breath of life proceeding from both of them. That's what רוּחַ is!
The trinity is contrary to Bible truth. Sorry.
You will have to take that up with God. The Father is Alpha and Omega, and so Is Jesus. It is a shared Godhead.
The Trinity consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:
1) Trinity – One God – Three Persons
a) Matthew 28:18-20
i) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
2) Was Part of Creation
a) Genesis 1:1-2
i) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3) Part of Salvation
a) John 3:1-8
The New Birth
i) There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
4) Promise from Jesus
a) John 14:12-21
i) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
5) As a Teacher
a) John 14:23-26
i) Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me. "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
6) Helper – Spirit of Truth
a) John 15:26
i) "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
7) Convicts – Guides
a) John 16:7-15
i) Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
8) Gives Power
a) Acts 1:6-8
i) Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
9) Baptizes
a) Acts 2:1-4
i) When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
ii) Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
10) Comfort in Fear
a) Acts 9:26-31
i) And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out. And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him. When the brethren found out, they brought him down to Caesarea and sent him out to Tarsus.
11) Delivers from the Power of Flesh
a) Romans 8:1-39
i) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
continued...
12) Righteousness, Peace, Joy
a) Romans 14:16-17
i) Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
13) Spirit of man vs. Spirit of God
a) 1 Corinthians 2:10-16
i) But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
b) 2 Corinthians 5:17
i) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
14) Washed, Sanctified, Justified
a) 1 Corinthians 6:11
i) And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
15) Body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit
a) 1 Corinthians 6:19
i) Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
16) Gifts from the Holy Spirit
a) 1 Corinthians 12:1-31
i) Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the body be? But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
17) Fellowship with
a) 2 Corinthians 13:14
i) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
18) Conflicts between the Spirit and the flesh
a) Galatians 5:16-21
i) I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
19) Fruits of the Spirit
a) Galatians 5:22-26
i) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
20) Do Not grieve the Spirit
a) Ephesians 4:30-32
i) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
21) Whole Armor of God
a) Ephesians 6:19-17
i) Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
22) Wrote the Bible
a) 2 Timothy 3:16-17
i) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
23) Test the Spirits
a) 1 John 4:1-6
i) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
24) Spirit of the Antichrist Discernment
a) 1 John 2:18-29
i) Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:47:34
You will have to take that up with God. The Father is Alpha and Omega, and so Is Jesus. It is a shared Godhead.
And again you take the easy way out rather than dealing with the scriptures at hand. That's fine.
We have seen from the scriptures presented that both Jesus and Paul call your "first Person of the trinity" the
only true God. And Jesus is His only Begotten Son.
So we have:
One true God, His Son, His Spirit. not
One true God: Father, Son and Spirit. Maybe you should take that up with the Father. I'm not the one who has a problem with clear-cut statements.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 23:06:05
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:47:34
You will have to take that up with God. The Father is Alpha and Omega, and so Is Jesus. It is a shared Godhead.
And again you take the easy way out rather than dealing with the scriptures at hand. That's fine.
We have seen from the scriptures presented that both Jesus and Paul call your "first Person of the trinity" the only true God. And Jesus is His only Begotten Son.
So we have:
One true God, His Son, His Spirit.
not
One true God: Father, Son and Spirit.
Maybe you should take that up with the Father. I'm not the one who has a problem with clear-cut statements.
I don't need any easy way out of anything. I know God the Father, and the Son, Jesus and I am empowered by Holy Spirit. I know God as Three Persons.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:08:10
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.
Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?
Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?
I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?
He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!
If you cannot see that, then you need a boatload of prayer. ::prayinghard::
No, I get that perfectly. Jesus was in a body so He couldn't be everywhere at once. Check.
But my question was, how does His being in a body hinder ANOTHER PERSON from being everywhere at once.
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 23:54:12
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:08:10
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.
Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?
Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?
I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?
He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!
If you cannot see that, then you need a boatload of prayer. ::prayinghard::
No, I get that perfectly. Jesus was in a body so He couldn't be everywhere at once. Check.
But my question was, how does His being in a body hinder ANOTHER PERSON from being everywhere at once.
Your question is nonsensical. No one hindered anyone. Jesus had His time. Holy Spirit has His.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:13:57
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 23:54:12
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:08:10
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05
: raggthyme7 Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08
Perhaps the logic escapes you.
Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.
No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.
Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.
Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?
Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?
I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?
He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!
If you cannot see that, then you need a boatload of prayer. ::prayinghard::
No, I get that perfectly. Jesus was in a body so He couldn't be everywhere at once. Check.
But my question was, how does His being in a body hinder ANOTHER PERSON from being everywhere at once.
Your question is nonsensical. No one hindered anyone. Jesus had His time. Holy Spirit has His.
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does? They are two
distinct persons according to trinitarians. If this were true, Jesus could be in His body of flesh while the Holy Spirit filled the earth.
But then this must be that "mystery" you were talking about. ;)
There's a better answer to howard's question and I'm hoping you will see it. That's why I keep discussing your answer with you.
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does? They are two distinct persons according to trinitarians. If this were true, Jesus could be in His body of flesh while the Holy Spirit filled the earth.
What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---God's plan. You can't argue with God! Do you question the wisdom of God Almighty?
But then this must be that "mystery" you were talking about. ;)
It's not a mystery to me.
There's a better answer to howard's question and I'm hoping you will see it. That's why I keep discussing your answer with you.
I doubt that, but you go ahead and try.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?
What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---
Now that's more like it. ::smile::
Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is
not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39
After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?
What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---
Now that's more like it. ::smile::
Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39
After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word
It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit
Pay attention now
Angels = spirits
Let's read where the angels are called holy
Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Holy angels or holy spirits
On holy angel or one holy spirit
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Who is the liar?
You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining them just obfuscates the issue, here.
LS
You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.
The bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your their of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven
And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling
Let me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with
Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Do you believe this?
I do
Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't, those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.
If you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings
Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;
Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:50:19
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?
What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---
Now that's more like it. ::smile::
Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39
After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.
Where is this written?
If this was God's plan why did he leave his word written?
We are to read and do what is written in God's word
The HS job is to help us along in our walk and teachings
Go and read what the job of the HS
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:00:01
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word
It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit
Pay attention now
Angels = spirits
Let's read where the angels are called holy
Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Holy angels or holy spirits
On holy angel or one holy spirit
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Who is the liar?
You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining them just obfuscates the issue, here.
LS
You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.
The bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your theory of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven
And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling
Let me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with
Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Do you believe this?
I do
Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't, those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.
If you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings
Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;
Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?
Pay close attention to what we are about to read
Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS
howard, being that you dont believe in ther divinity of the holy Spirit, and think that he is the angel gabriel, do you have mormon roots? I believe thats what they teach. Or are you a mormon?
Let's skip down in the same chapter to read about the angels doing there job
Revelation 22:16 (KJV)
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Jesus said he sent his angel (one angel) to testify of him
Lets go Back to Jesus sending the comforter
John 15:26 (KJV)
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
The comforter and the angel has the same job they both are sent by Jesus and they both testify of Jesus
Why is that?
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:34:19
howard, being that you dont believe in ther divinity of the holy Spirit, and think that he is the angel gabriel, do you have mormon roots? I believe thats what they teach. Or are you a mormon?
Do you come as friend or foe ?
No Mormon roots. The Mormons are a denomination created by a man.
I am a bible Christian. I read the bible all of it. I am a American citizen who speaks and reads English
I read the English KJV .
The HS is holy
The word divinit is not in the bible, I assume it means God
The HS is not God
If it is you are welcome to show me
Unless you are planning to ban me
I can't find my topic Christian verses Chrisitans in the theology section
I assume the Moderators deleted it.
This is a controversial topic this is why it is in this section a section created by the Admin for such subjects.
I expected the participation to be much higher because of the 1000's of trinity believers
What I did not expect was a few Unitarians.
What I expect is more bible verses and history to justify the trinity belief what I did not expect is no calling from someone who has done this before.
It goes with the territory
Where are the trinitarians come and defend your belief
Prove all things
The bible tells us that we would be liars if we didn't confess that Jesus came in the flesh. It doesn't say that about God or the HS. We don't have to confess that the other 2 are flesh/persons.
2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
1 John 4:1 (KJV)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Let's try the spirit, let's see if God the HS is in you.
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:46:04
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:34:19
Howard, being that you don't believe in ther divinity of the holy Spirit, and think that he is the angel gabriel, do you have mormon roots? I believe thats what they teach. Or are you a mormon?
Do you come as friend or foe ?
No Mormon roots. The Mormons are a denomination created by a man.
I am a bible Christian. I read the bible all of it. I am a American citizen who speaks and reads English
I read the English KJV .
The HS is holy
The word divinit is not in the bible, I assume it means God
The HS is not God
If it is you are welcome to show me
Unless you are planning to ban me
So what church/denomination do you go to that teaches this? I have never ever heard of this idea before and so am intrigued.
How do you explain the fact that the The Holy Spirit is in us as believers, and yet is the angel Gabriel who cant obviously be in anyone?
Howard could you please provide the exact verse in the bible that states that the Holy Spirit is not God.
And that the Holy Spirit is Just a Angel
Genesis 1:2 (KJV)
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Father is God and He sits on a throne
Jesus is God He sits on a throne
Obviously these two God's don't get there hands dirty because they are God, they give orders
Who is this spirit moving on the waters ?
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:07:05
Howard could you please provide the exact verse in the bible that states that the Holy Spirit is not God.
And that the Holy Spirit is Just a Angel
I've done the angel connection many times
As far s the HS is not God there is no exact verse
yes you have, and there are many scriptures posted here indicating that the Holy Spirit is God.If you took your verses and placed them against the ones posted, and if you were a betting man and your life depended upon it where would you place your money?
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:13:05
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?
There is no different view there is one view and it is God's view
Show me the word trinity or God the HS, you can't just as I can't show you the exact verse because it's not there, yet I can show you as I have done many verses that the HS is not God
And you can't show me one place the he is God
The troubling thing here is that in fact God The Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit were all there from the beginning, and are divine(God), whereas the Angel Gabriel is a created being. The creator cannot be the created.
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit ::eek::
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick. If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22:22
yes you have, and there are many scriptures posted here indicating that the Holy Spirit is God.If you took your verses and placed them against the ones posted, and if you were a betting man and your life depended upon it where would you place your money?
There not one verse indicating the HS is God what you have is people reading the word spirit or HS an thinking that it is God the HS
If you read the verses I put and compare them to the job of the HS it let's us know that the angel and the Comforter has the same job
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22:57
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:13:05
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?
There is no different view there is one view and it is God's view
Show me the word trinity or God the HS, you can't just as I can't show you the exact verse because it's not there, yet I can show you as I have done many verses that the HS is not God
And you can't show me one place the he is God
1 to 10 odds against you buddy.not a solid bet on any ones books.I will post again tomorrow and catch up. ::smile::
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:26:43
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit ::eek::
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick. If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?
What hit you is a burst of emotions
If I was using my own words then you might have a point
I'm using God's word and posting the verses so we all can rea it ourselves
What you are saying is folly. If I'm doing what you are saying prove it wrong
Take every verses I put and prove it wrong
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:30:58
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22:57
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:13:05
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?
There is no different view there is one view and it is God's view
Show me the word trinity or God the HS, you can't just as I can't show you the exact verse because it's not there, yet I can show you as I have done many verses that the HS is not God
And you can't show me one place the he is God
1 to 10 odds against you buddy.not a solid bet on any ones books.I will post again tomorrow and catch up. ::smile::
I hope you are not all talk, I take you up on that challenge. I've put a lot of God's word already so buddy you have a lot of reading to do. The odds are not against me Brother, this is God's word I quote
Your battle is against God word not me all I'm gonna do is put God's word
Look forward to your challenge
Peace in Jesus
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
The troubling thing here is that in fact God The Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit were all there from the beginning, and are divine(God), whereas the Angel Gabriel is a created being. The creator cannot be the created.
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
The angel is created and the angel is a spirit we read this
The Father is God
The Son is God
2 Gods
Not 3
Not 1
What I find troubling is that you have not shown me where the HS is God
What I find troubling is that you believe in a man made doctrine
What is find troubling is that you now decide who and what a cult is making yourself God
Maybe you are saying you are the 3rd member of the trinity?
Are you saying this? Are you capable of determining who is a cult and who is not?
How about participating on the topic by answering the question
Unles you don't know chosen one?
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
Genesis 1:2 (KJV)
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Father is God and He sits on a throne
Jesus is God He sits on a throne
Obviously these two God's don't get there hands dirty because they are God, they give orders
Who is this spirit moving on the waters ?
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
I guess every time we see the word spirit in the bible we must assume its the God the HS?
If we take this approach then God the HS lives in our nostrils
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
What do you read here?
Where is job saying the spirit of God is?
Is this God the HS?
This is not a angel
This is not God's word
Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril
Is this reasonable to ask?
Why do I have to be called a liar and a cult for reading the bible, quoting the bible and posting the bible?v By fellow Christians
What do you read here? life
Where is job saying the spirit of God is? up his nose like a rubber hose ::giggle::
Is this God the HS? in this instance doesn't sound like it and it wasn't stated that it is the HS
This is not a angel it is a life giving aspect and God does have angels do a lot of stuff for him
This is not God's wordIt most certainly is
Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril vapor comes out of my nostrils most of the time
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.
Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.
Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it
What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.
Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:27:48
What do you read here? life
Where is job saying the spirit of God is? up his nose like a rubber hose ::giggle::
Is this God the HS? in this instance doesn't sound like it and it wasn't stated that it is the HS
This is not a angel it is a life giving aspect and God does have angels do a lot of stuff for him
This is not God's wordIt most certainly is
Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril vapor comes out of my nostrils most of the time [/color
Another name for breath is spirit
What goes into mans nostril breath or air, let's go to the creation to verify or prove it
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Job understood that breath and spirit are the same
Job 33:4 (KJV)
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:00:01
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word
It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit
Pay attention now
Angels = spirits
Let's read where the angels are called holy
Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Holy angels or holy spirits
On holy angel or one holy spirit
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Who is the liar?
You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining them just obfuscates the issue, here.
LS
You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.
What's funny is your use of 'weigh'!
I believe in someone I definitely know about. You, on the other hand are far too wordy about something you do not understand. You don;t have the ears to hear what the Lord God is telling you, and that is a
SHAME.The bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your their of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven
And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling
Garbage, howard. You have chosen poorly to believe lies.
Let me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with
You use poor sentence formation, so I have no idea what you have just said.
Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Do you believe this?
I do
Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't, those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.
Anyone who has the word of God and reads it has the answers to everything.
If you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings
Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;
Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible
The Israelites had no knowledge of Holy Spirit, but the prophets, judges and kings (and individuals) whom Holy Spirit fell upon with power knew of Him, and knew of their Messiah.
Nothing has been changed or added to scripture.
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:04:40
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:50:19
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?
What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---
Now that's more like it. ::smile::
Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39
After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.
Where is this written?
If this was God's plan why did he leave his word written?
Read the word, howard. I am not about to spoon feed you. Are you totally ignorant of God's plan for the world? How do you think He works among us, and how to you figure people have been coming to Christ and performing the works of Christ for the last 2012 years?
We are to read and do what is written in God's word
The HS job is to help us along in our walk and teachings
Go and read what the job of the HS
You have no power to understand or do what is written in the word without the third person of the Godhead working in and through you. Are you ignoring Him? If so, it is to your own detriment.
For me, Holy Spirit is God and He deserves all honour and respect due Him. It is because of Him I can know and love my Lord Jesus Christ, and understand what God tells me in His precious word.
You are out of your depth, howard, as usual. Go back to your 'dark sentences' you love so much. I love the light.
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?
Pay close attention to what we are about to read
Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS
Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.
Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!
You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:55:23
I can't find my topic Christian verses Chrisitans in the theology section
I assume the Moderators deleted it.
This is a controversial topic this is why it is in this section a section created by the Admin for such subjects.
I expected the participation to be much higher because of the 1000's of trinity believers
What I did not expect was a few Unitarians.
What I expect is more bible verses and history to justify the trinity belief what I did not expect is no calling from someone who has done this before.
It goes with the territory
Where are the trinitarians come and defend your belief
Prove all things
You need to defend your belief, howard! You go against God in what you choose to believe. So far, you have proven you misunderstand scripture and have an immature understanding of God and who He is, how He works and what He has done.
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:10:56
Genesis 1:2 (KJV)
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Father is God and He sits on a throne
Jesus is God He sits on a throne
Obviously these two God's don't get there hands dirty because they are God, they give orders
Who is this spirit moving on the waters ?
So, you think God is perpetually sitting on a throne somewhere? You need to open up your heart and mind to who He really is. I find you to be disrespectful to God in what you have said in this post!
Does it completely fly over your head that the spirit is the Spirit of God? Holy Spirit was active in Creation!
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:22:14
I guess every time we see the word spirit in the bible we must assume its the God the HS?
No, you are expected to use your head with an open heart and read everything in context!
If we take this approach then God the HS lives in our nostrils
Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
What do you read here?
Where is job saying the spirit of God is?
Is this God the HS?
This is not a angel
This is not God's word
Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril
And this is a childish and unknowledgeable way of handling differences. Typical of those who go against the grain of Christianity---they cherry pick a verse and use it to mock.
You are mocking God, howie---do you realize that?
Is this reasonable to ask?
Why do I have to be called a liar and a cult for reading the bible, quoting the bible and posting the bible?v By fellow Christians
You misinterpret what you read. No wonder you hold that the word of God is full of 'dark sentences'! You do not hear Holy Spirit trying to teach you the truth. You are the poster child for those who do not have ears to hear. It's truly SAD.
Take a look at this verse, howie:
Matthew 28:19Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit? Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of
another god? Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do? Why would God the Father and God the Son be on equal footing with another?
Let me tell you why, howie. The Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are ONE.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:03:50
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:04:40
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:50:19
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10
: raggthyme7 Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04
Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body. ??? Huh?
Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?
What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---
Now that's more like it. ::smile::
Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39
After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.
Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.
Where is this written?
If this was God's plan why did he leave his word written?
Read the word, howard. I am not about to spoon feed you. Are you totally ignorant of God's plan for the world? How do you think He works among us, and how to you figure people have been coming to Christ and performing the works of Christ for the last 2012 years?
We are to read and do what is written in God's word
The HS job is to help us along in our walk and teachings
Go and read what the job of the HS
You have no power to understand or do what is written in the word without the third person of the Godhead working in and through you. Are you ignoring Him? If so, it is to your own detriment.
For me, Holy Spirit is God and He deserves all honour and respect due Him. It is because of Him I can know and love my Lord Jesus Christ, and understand what God tells me in His precious word.
You are out of your depth, howard, as usual. Go back to your 'dark sentences' you love so much. I love the light.
Why do you continue to comment if you are so sure of yourself?
Let me be so bold to say what knowledge you do have you read I out of the book or your parents to your spiritual friend told you. It's obvious God the HS has not visited
The closes light to visit you is God's word
Psalm 119:105 (KJV)
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
I hope this don't fly over
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 08:13:45
Why do you continue to comment if you are so sure of yourself?
You only wish I wasn't sure.
Let me be so bold to say what knowledge you do have you read I out of the book or your parents to your spiritual friend told you. It's obvious God the HS has not visited
Nice grammar, howie. Let me see if I can decipher your meaning...
OK, I see...
What knowledge I have is gained in all the ways that God provides:
God's holy word
Holy Spirit
Godly parentage
Spirit-led and Spirit-filled teachers, pastors and leaders
Spirit-led and Spirit-filled friends
Experience of God through obedience to the word
The closes light to visit you is God's word
Whatever that means! ::headscratch::
Psalm 119:105 (KJV)
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
I hope this don't fly over
It appears I have stymied you, dear howard, and this is all you can come up with. Where are your big guns? :onhorse:
howard~
I would like for you to answer the questions below:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit?
Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god?
Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do?
If God the Father and God the Son are on equal footing with another, then who is Holy Spirit?
Why is He included in the holy echelon as stated plainly n this verse?
Now, that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'm going for a little visit with my grandson. I'll check in with you a bit later!
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Hello/wave.jpg)
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.
Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it
What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.
Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.
Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:32:39
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:26:43
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit ::eek::
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick. If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?
What hit you is a burst of emotions
If I was using my own words then you might have a point
I'm using God's word and posting the verses so we all can rea it ourselves
What you are saying is folly. If I'm doing what you are saying prove it wrong
Take every verses I put and prove it wrong
No, a burst of reality! A burst of truth! God is in me throught His Holy Spirt, and the angel gabriel isnt in me and can only be in one place at one time.
I fear for you Howard.
Tell me, what church do you go to that teaches this? I have never ever heard of it being taught anywhere except the mormon church.
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32What do you believe bittersweet?
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. ::thumbup::
This isn't about our beliefs Chosenone, this is about the trinity being fact or fiction. I really don't mind if people believe in the trinity, I'm not going to judge them or stop being their friend because of it. It's what's in a person's heart that speaks the loudest, some come from loving spirits and some come from hateful spirits. If you don't agree with something, you don't have to respond in a negative manner.
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 10:40:30
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32What do you believe bittersweet?
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. ::thumbup::
This isn't about our beliefs Chosenone, this is about the trinity being fact or fiction. I really don't mind if people believe in the trinity, I'm not going to judge them or stop being their friend because of it. It's what's in a person's heart that speaks the loudest, some come from loving spirits and some come from hateful spirits. If you don't agree with something, you don't have to respond in a negative manner.
This is what the Bible says bittersweet and what the nicene creed says. Do you believe it?
We believe in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 10:47:48
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 10:40:30
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32What do you believe bittersweet?
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. ::thumbup::
This isn't about our beliefs Chosenone, this is about the trinity being fact or fiction. I really don't mind if people believe in the trinity, I'm not going to judge them or stop being their friend because of it. It's what's in a person's heart that speaks the loudest, some come from loving spirits and some come from hateful spirits. If you don't agree with something, you don't have to respond in a negative manner.
This is what the Bible says bittersweet and what the nicene creed says. Do you believe it?
We believe in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)
I believe everything in the bible, not just the verses you posted. I've never heard of the nicene creed until this thread and I haven't seen that mentioned in the bible. The bible warns us not to follow doctrines of men, this is a man-made creed, correct?
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8-9)
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Sorry I am not willing to say what you want to hear.
The Nicene creed is a collection of verses and statements straight from the Bible and is used in this forums rules to say what members here need to believe. Look at it in the rules. Its the basis of most churches beliefs. I hope that you don't agree with Howard because he agrees with the JW's and that isn't good.
The trouble is that we do need to be sure of what we believe, otherwise we can get blown around by every weird doctrine and seriously wrong teaching that a few misguided people come here with. How can we be any good or be strong in our faith, if we don't even know what it is we believe in? How can we stand up for the truth of God the Father and His Son and His Holy Spirit if we have no idea what that truth is?I realise that a lot of it is that you have never had any good teaching anywhwere, so you cant recognise when something of someone is in serious and dangerous error. Thats the danger of not being in a body of Bible believing Christians who can keep us all on track, and stop us going off course.
eph 4v14
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
I just believe in the entire bible, nothing more and nothing less.
I've only belonged to the Orthodox church Chosenone, I'm not a church hopper and never joined a different church because I didn't like the one I was attending so I'm not sure why you posted that verse. If I follow anyone's teachings they are my husbands because the bible tells women to ask their husbands if they have any questions. Just last night he told me if anyone asks (because a pastor and wife invited me to their church) to tell them I am a renegade Orthodox.
Hi howard could you please explain this verse below in regards to John being filled with the Holy Spirit even from the womb.Or do you believe that he was filled with a angel?
Luke 1
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
Howard did Jesus breathe out a Angel here or was he imparting himself here?
John
The Apostles Commissioned
19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[c] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Are you saying they where filled with a angel from Jesus Christ?
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:53:57
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:00:01
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01
: howard Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22
: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible
That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.
Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word
It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit
Pay attention now
Angels = spirits
Let's read where the angels are called holy
Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Holy angels or holy spirits
On holy angel or one holy spirit
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Who is the liar?
You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining them just obfuscates the issue, here.
LS
You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.
What's funny is your use of 'weigh'!
I believe in someone I definitely know about. You, on the other hand are far too wordy about something you do not understand. You don;t have the ears to hear what the Lord God is telling you, and that is a SHAME.
The bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your their of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven
And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling
Garbage, howard. You have chosen poorly to believe lies.
Let me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with
You use poor sentence formation, so I have no idea what you have just said.
Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Do you believe this?
I do
Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't, those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.
Anyone who has the word of God and reads it has the answers to everything.
If you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings
Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;
Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible
The Israelites had no knowledge of Holy Spirit, but the prophets, judges and kings (and individuals) whom Holy Spirit fell upon with power knew of Him, and knew of their Messiah.
Nothing has been changed or added to scripture.
actually LS
half the time I am at work fellowshipping with you all on my phone so if my grammar or sentence structure is poor overlook it.
you understand what I am saying so put emphasis on the post and not the grammar.
sorry to bust your bubble again the HS was in the wilderness with the israelites as Jesus was there also
Isaiah 63:9-11
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and
vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his
holy Spirit within him?as far as the name calling that is between you and God.
the emotion i asked in my first post to leave at the door.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:10:10
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?
Pay close attention to what we are about to read
Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS
Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.
Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!
You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?
lets read something here and I hope you and others can see what is said
Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,
who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and
the earth, and the things that therein are, and
the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
there is only two that has not been created those two are
The Father
Jesus
everything in heaven , earth and sea was created.
Colossians 1:15-17
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
all thing in heaven includes the HS!!!
lets read the bible
these things are NEVER brought up
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.
Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it
What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.
Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.
Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?
who cares what the mormon teach that's there problem with God.
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 21:55:41
Howard did Jesus breathe out a Angel here or was he imparting himself here?
John
The Apostles Commissioned
19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[c] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
Are you saying they where filled with a angel from Jesus Christ?
bemark
you need to read the topic
the Holy Spirit comes in many forms
the answer is no.
why should I answer anything else yo say when you have not read my posts.
watch this Bemark
lets see if this holy spirit fits that verse
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
now what forgives sins?
let me ask you who forgive sins
the Father
Jesus
or the holy spirit
which one?
whose name?
to whom do you pray forgiveness to?
I'm making it very simple for you
Luke 11:2
And he said unto them,
When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:10:10
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?
Pay close attention to what we are about to read
Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS
Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.
Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!
You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?
lets read how John got the revelation of Jesus its in the first chapter and first verse of relevation you missed it, I understand
Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,
and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him,
I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee,
and to shew thee these glad tidings.
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:01:13
howard~
I would like for you to answer the questions below:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit?
Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god?
Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do?
If God the Father and God the Son are on equal footing with another, then who is Holy Spirit?
Why is He included in the holy echelon as stated plainly n this verse?
Now, that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'm going for a little visit with my grandson. I'll check in with you a bit later!
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Hello/wave.jpg)
actually this is very simple stuff LS
I'm surprise you asked it but its good that you did so everyone can see
the Father is a title
the son is a title
the HS is a title
Jesus is a name
now lets read what Peter said and lets understand how we are to baptize
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
peter tells us that we are to baptized in the name of Jesus
lets see what the HS order were from JESUS
John 15v 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father,
he shall testify of me:that me is Jesus
John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another
Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you
26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom
the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
the HS is coming in the name of Jesus
John 16v13 Howbeit when he,
the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
this HS can only speak what he has heard which is what he has been told to say.
this HS don't have the qualification as the God Jesus and God the Father, he can;t even speak his own words!
and you just learned we are baptized under the name of JESUS, not a title father, son and hs.
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:26:10
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:32:39
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:26:43
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit ::eek::
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick. If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?
What hit you is a burst of emotions
If I was using my own words then you might have a point
I'm using God's word and posting the verses so we all can read it ourselves
What you are saying is folly. If I'm doing what you are saying prove it wrong
Take every verses I put and prove it wrong
No, a burst of reality! A burst of truth! God is in me throught His Holy Spirt, and the angel gabriel isnt in me and can only be in one place at one time.
I fear for you Howard.
don't fear for me
i never said Gabriel is in you, not once, this is emotions you display
let me clear it again and ask in question form
is this HS in you
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
how about this one hear Chosen one?
Job 27:3
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
you might not have God's word, but you most definitely has his spirit/breath
listen again chosen one, you cant have the spirit Gabriel in you, but you can have God's spirit the word in you or his spirit the breath in you or his spirit the thoughts in you, or his spirit the strength in you.
did I go over your head again?
if not lets move on from silly questions to mature questions?
: bemark Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 21:31:59
Hi howard could you please explain this verse below in regards to John being filled with the Holy Spirit even from the womb.Or do you believe that he was filled with a angel?
Luke 1
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.
simple Brother
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Now show me where John the Baptist was taught by anyone even God the HS or even a angel?
what left?
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
God words are Holy and we read where his words are spirit.
example
Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord,
I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; it can be done and was done.
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.
Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it
What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.
Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.
Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?
the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith,
Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not
all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth
Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth
rofl
guess what people if the spirit is not holy what are they called EVIL SPIRITS
i betcha some here don't have a problem excepting this spirit
Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
Acts 19:12
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
Acts 19:13
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
wait a minute these evil spirits are plural (many)
lets look at the singular
Results
Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
1 Samuel 16:
14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played
notice how it becomes the evil spirit
who is this 'the evil spirit'
: howard Sat Jun 30, 2012 - 07:03:19
Hi GC
I've been gone for a minute doing battle against some Unitarians on another site. Anyway I have a lesson here that I want you all to weigh in on.
I know what the statement of faith is this is why I put it here. I would like it in the theology section but here has to suffice.
If the Moderators can please put it there.
Please weigh in on this and please be polite and christian like.
peace in Jesus
here is my first post and the plea that went out concerning this subject.
the HS comes in may forms which I have put numerous times
the angels are spirits
the word is spirit
the breath is spirit
the thoughts is spirit
the strength is spirit
all this is written
yet we have folks who can't open up there understanding and see this.
that's ok
because those verse sand scriptures will always be there for them to one day understand.
thats all back to the fellowshipping! ::smile::
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21
: Bitter Sweet Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37
: chosenone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..
Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.
Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.
The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.
I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.
It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.
Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it
What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.
Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.
Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?
the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth
Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth
rofl
Excellent! Mwhhahaha, God's Holy words
Jesus and the Father created everything, everything. keep this in mind. they created every thing in heaven, on earth and in the sea.
keep in mind the words in heaven.
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Revelation 10
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Colossians 1:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
this says a lot, a lot!
guess what people I did not write this, those verse has always been in your bible, the RCC did not understand them, probably did not look at them, most likely did not know they where written in the bible like the people of today.
it says what it means
do not come back saying it says soemthing else, it don't
I think we all can agree that the Father is God and Jesus is God
I think we all know enough to know and understand that these two are not created
but when it says everything in heaven was created who does this include?
who else resides in heaven with Jesus and the Father?
lets open our understanding
lets read the bible and get away from mans meetings and doctrines.
lets try the spirit!!!
let fellowship and grow in grace and knowledge.
most people don't know this verse exist and that we have to grow in grace, yes even grace and knowledge of God
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
::pondering::
::reading::
::pray::
::amen!::
reading God's word and discussing it is the best thing in the world.
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!
Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.
Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.
Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:14:53
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:10:10
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?
Pay close attention to what we are about to read
Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS
Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.
Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!
You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?
lets read something here and I hope you and others can see what is said
Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
there is only two that has not been created those two are
The Father
Jesus
everything in heaven , earth and sea was created.
Colossians 1:15-17
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
all thing in heaven includes the HS!!!
lets read the bible
these things are NEVER brought up
In your blindness, you negate Holy Spirit as God, who is uncreated. God have mercy on you.
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:48:14
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:01:13
howard~
I would like for you to answer the questions below:
Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit?
Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god?
Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do?
If God the Father and God the Son are on equal footing with another, then who is Holy Spirit?
Why is He included in the holy echelon as stated plainly n this verse?
Now, that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'm going for a little visit with my grandson. I'll check in with you a bit later!
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Hello/wave.jpg)
actually this is very simple stuff LS
I'm surprise you asked it but its good that you did so everyone can see
the Father is a title
the son is a title
the HS is a title
Jesus is a name
now lets read what Peter said and lets understand how we are to baptize
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
peter tells us that we are to baptized in the name of Jesus
lets see what the HS order were from JESUS
John 15v 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
that me is Jesus
John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
the HS is coming in the name of Jesus
John 16v13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
this HS can only speak what he has heard which is what he has been told to say.
this HS don't have the qualification as the God Jesus and God the Father, he can;t even speak his own words!
and you just learned we are baptized under the name of JESUS, not a title father, son and hs.
This is pure foolishness. We are to baptize people in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son, Jesus and in the name of Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit has spoken every word you read in the scriptures! Holy Spirit speaks to us the truth about the Saviour or you could never know Jesus Christ.
Get a clue.
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:32:55
lets read how John got the revelation of Jesus its in the first chapter and first verse of relevation you missed it, I understand
Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I am stunned that you actually post scripture attesting to the Trinity, and completely ignore its importance!!! John's entire revelation was by the power of Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
What does it say to you that Gabriel stands in the presence of God? Billions of angels stand in the same place. Gabriel is just one.
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13
the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth
Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth
rofl
Angels are
spiritual CREATURES, and holy and are sent.
Holy Spirit is
not a
spiritual CREATURE.
I find your stubbornness and mocking laughter completely out of line.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 17:27:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!
Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.
Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.
Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.
Look it is written Jesus created everything in heaven
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
All things created in heaven by Jesus,.
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 20:10:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13
the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth
Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth
rofl
Angels are spiritual CREATURES, and holy and are sent.
Holy Spirit is not a spiritual CREATURE.
I find your stubbornness and mocking laughter completely out of line.
Actually is really frustrating that the trinity doctrine has such a profound effect on Chrisitans
You are right, this is not a laughing matter
The people here knows the effect of the Roman Catholic doctrine has had on the world
It's saddening.
The trinity is a Roman Catholic doctrine like most of chrisitianity practiced today
What troubles me is the stubbornness of you and others who won't look at the verses I put and accept what is written.
I'm not stubborn LS I've been on the shoes of one beloved in the God the HS
Yet the Lord opened m eyes and ears to see it is not biblical
I don't want to argue or debate I just want you and others to read the other portrayals of the word spirit in the bible.
I'm not here to change minds or create controversy
We all read the same bible and we all call ourselves Christian
Somebody is wrong
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 19:38:02
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:32:55
lets read how John got the revelation of Jesus its in the first chapter and first verse of relevation you missed it, I understand
Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
I am stunned that you actually post scripture attesting to the Trinity, and completely ignore its importance!!! John's entire revelation was by the power of Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
What does it say to you that Gabriel stands in the presence of God? Billions of angels stand in the same place. Gabriel is just one.
Luke 1:19 (KJV)
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Keep this in mind LS
Paul had to be retaugjt
Jesus had to teach the disciples
The apostles had to teach the people
1 John 4:1 (KJV)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
For me LS that false spirit is the the RCC and the meeting they had after ther killed the apostles and saints
The average Christian think that every word spirit in te bible is God the HS
They have no understanding about the many definitions of the word spirit
God's words are spirit
God's air is spirit
God's angels are spirit
Ask the average Christian this and See that they don't know this.
What is the meaning of Lucifer?
Who was lucifer ?
What is Gabriel's job?
Who does he do his job for?
Think about this before anyone answer
Because Gabriel job is very important today as it was in Mary's day and Samson day
SPIRIT (Heavenly Beings)
God (Jesus and the Father)
The Angels (All of them)
SOUL (Flesh and Blood Beings)
Man (Humans)
Beasts, Insects, & Everything in the waters
Colossians 1v16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Isaiah 63:7-10 (KJV)
I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord , and the praises of the Lord , according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
[8] For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
[9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV)
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
When we pray We have the Father to begin it
John 14:13 (KJV)
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
And we have the son name to close the prayer In Jesus name
Some one is missing
Lucifer means light bearer
Lucifer as Satan use to bring the light / truth to the angels
Lucifer was taken away from satan and given to Gabriel
Gabriel's brings the truth to man
Gabriel was sent to man
Isaiah 14:12-15 (KJV)
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Here lucifer / Satan falls from heaven
Why was he called lucifer in heaven
Revelation 12:9-10 (KJV)
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him
10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Satan would go before theLord day and night accusing the other angels
In heaven before he sinned his job was lucifer or light bearer
Daniel 9:21-22 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Look what Gabriel job is
He came to man
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 17:48:18
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 17:27:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!
Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.
Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.
Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.
Look it is written Jesus created everything in heaven
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
All things created in heaven by Jesus,.
So? Did you just discover that now?
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 17:58:14
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 20:10:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13
the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is
Hebrews 1:
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth
Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth
rofl
Angels are spiritual CREATURES, and holy and are sent.
Holy Spirit is not a spiritual CREATURE.
I find your stubbornness and mocking laughter completely out of line.
Actually is really frustrating that the trinity doctrine has such a profound effect on Chrisitans
Yes, it must be frustrating for Satan to have such a hard time deceiving Christians into believing that the powerful Holy Spirit is nobody!
You are right, this is not a laughing matter
Then stop with the emoticons.
The people here knows the effect of the Roman Catholic doctrine has had on the world
It's saddening.
This is not RCC teaching. This is God's teaching. does your distaste of the RCC colour everything you cannot comprehend so that you lump it in as their heresy?
The trinity is a Roman Catholic doctrine like most of chrisitianity practiced today
Nah!
What troubles me is the stubbornness of you and others who won't look at the verses I put and accept what is written.
I contend strongly for the truth of the word. God blesses me for it. You have nothing in scripture to prove your case, because it is not true and so it is contrived.
I'm not stubborn LS I've been on the shoes of one beloved in the God the HS
Yet the Lord opened m eyes and ears to see it is not biblical
I have news for you. It wasn't the Lord.
I don't want to argue or debate I just want you and others to read the other portrayals of the word spirit in the bible.
We can see clearly that there are many mentions of the word, 'spirit'. It is self-explanatory. Holy Spirit, Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of God are, also.
I'm not here to change minds or create controversy
We all read the same bible and we all call ourselves Christian
Somebody is wrong
It is you, but you refuse to see how your are confusing terms.
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 18:10:14
The average Christian think that every word spirit in te bible is God the HS
They have no understanding about the many definitions of the word spirit
God's words are spirit
God's air is spirit
God's angels are spirit
Ask the average Christian this and See that they don't know this.
That is false.
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 21:51:16
Lucifer means light bearer
Lucifer as Satan use to bring the light / truth to the angels
Lucifer was taken away from satan and given to Gabriel
Gabriel's brings the truth to man
Gabriel was sent to man
Where did you get that from?? ::headscratch::
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 22:29:02
Daniel 9:21-22 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Look what Gabriel job is
He came to man
That is what angels are often sent to do---to bring messages to man. They minister the word and will of God to us every day.
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 21:47:15
Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV)
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
When we pray We have the Father to begin it
John 14:13 (KJV)
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
And we have the son name to close the prayer In Jesus name
Some one is missing
Only missing to you.
Who do you think opens your spiritual eyes to the truths that are contained in that prayer? By whom do you receive your answers? who is it that pricks your conscience about sin and urges you to ask for forgiveness? Who is it that causes you to give thanks to your Saviour and your God for all things?
Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:9But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you.
(And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 17:48:18
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 17:27:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!
Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.
Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.
Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.
Look it is written Jesus created everything in heaven
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
All things created in heaven by Jesus,.
This settles it for me:
Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep."John 10:7
and
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."John 10:1
Howard has entered the sheepfold by The Door; the Word of God; and he is doing the Good Shepherding of God's flock, and I hear my Master's Voice; the LORD Jesus Christ.
If I may say so; well done Howard.
AND...
I thank God for you, and for ALL His faithful servants.
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 02:19:08
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 17:48:18
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 17:27:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!
Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.
Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.
Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.
Look it is written Jesus created everything in heaven
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
All things created in heaven by Jesus,.
This settles it for me:
Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep."
John 10:7
and
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."
John 10:1
Howard has entered the sheepfold by The Door; the Word of God; and he is doing the Good Shepherding of God's flock, and I hear my Master's Voice; the LORD Jesus Christ.
If I may say so; well done Howard.
AND...
I thank God for you, and for ALL His faithful servants.
Mikey
I gather you haven't read the entire thread... ::frown::
Mikey you may be mistaken about what you said. Howard does not believe that The Holy Spirit is God. He says that The Holy Spirit is the angel gabriel. ::shrug::
: chosenone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 03:23:14
Mikey you may be mistaken about what you said. Howard does not believe that The Holy Spirit is God. He says that The Holy Spirit is the angel gabriel. ::shrug::
Oh my! Really?
Have I been duped?
Will you then, chose none, please show ME where Jesus says the Holy Spirit is God?
Surely that statement MUST BE in the Word of God, right?
So please, show me where it IS, because I cannot find that STATEMENT.
However, as I have examined the man's every post, all I find him doing is exalting the Word of God, with references and everything, above the thoughts of church tradition. If that isn't glorifying the Lord, I don't know what is.
The Sword of the Spirit IS the Word of God (are you saying that it isn't?), and that is what I see (and verify) is coming out of his mouth, that is, in his spirit. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and truly, he seems more interested in glorifying the Word of God than in attracting attention to him self.
There is something else I happened upon which is even more interesting,
John 7:39
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Maybe we should all do like Howard and exalt the Word of the Lord and seek His glorification so we might all be delivered from the traditions of men - something that Jesus said "makes the word of God of none effect".
Look at each and every post he made, just as I did. From God's own word, who is Jesus Christ, what can you PROVE is wrong with his posts? I cannot find anything wrong with them. Can you? Please, do show me, because no one wants to be deceived.
Until you or someone else does so, it seems to me that you are exalting opinion and tradition against what the word of God says very plainly.
So I will have to agree with God's Word, for God says "He sent His word and healed us".
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!Sincerely,
Mikey
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 02:38:00
I gather you haven't read the entire thread... ::frown::
You gather wrong.
I read every post.
It is God who is gathering together His elect, as the scriptures teach.
And the tares are gathered together too, but in another place.
Now if you don't mind, I would like to enjoy the Bread that Howard has brought to the table.
It is UNleavened Bread, and that is what the Lord Jesus Christ prefers on His banquet table.
We are gonna drink the Lord favored wine too, together.
So please (no one is forcing you to eat or drink here) allow us to fellowship in peace, with the Lord.
Sincerely,
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 06:33:38
: chosenone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 03:23:14
Mikey you may be mistaken about what you said. Howard does not believe that The Holy Spirit is God. He says that The Holy Spirit is the angel gabriel. ::shrug::
Oh my! Really?
Have I been duped?
Will you then, chose none, please show ME where Jesus says the Holy Spirit is God?
Surely that statement MUST BE in the Word of God, right?
So please, show me where it IS, because I cannot find that STATEMENT.
However, as I have examined the man's every post, all I find him doing is exalting the Word of God, with references and everything, above the thoughts of church tradition. If that isn't glorifying the Lord, I don't know what is.
The Sword of the Spirit IS the Word of God (are you saying that it isn't?), and that is what I see (and verify) is coming out of his mouth, that is, in his spirit. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and truly, he seems more interested in glorifying the Word of God than in attracting attention to him self.
There is something else I happened upon which is even more interesting,
John 7:39
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Maybe we should all do like Howard and exalt the Word of the Lord and seek His glorification so we might all be delivered from the traditions of men - something that Jesus said "makes the word of God of none effect".
Look at each and every post he made, just as I did. From God's own word, who is Jesus Christ, what can you PROVE is wrong with his posts? I cannot find anything wrong with them. Can you? Please, do show me, because no one wants to be deceived.
Until you or someone else does so, it seems to me that you are exalting opinion and tradition against what the word of God says very plainly.
So I will have to agree with God's Word, for God says "He sent His word and healed us".
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
Sincerely,
Mikey
Exalting the word of the Lord? How? How are you healed by God? How is His power manifest in you?
HOLY SPIRIT!
Rejecting Him is not exalting anyone but oneself and leaning on one's own understanding.
'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,'
Says the Lord of hosts.
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 06:42:49
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 02:38:00
I gather you haven't read the entire thread... ::frown::
You gather wrong.
I read every post.
It is God who is gathering together His elect, as the scriptures teach.
And the tares are gathered together too, but in another place.
Now if you don't mind, I would like to enjoy the Bread that Howard has brought to the table.
It is UNleavened Bread, and that is what the Lord Jesus Christ prefers on His banquet table.
We are gonna drink the Lord favored wine too, together.
So please (no one is forcing you to eat or drink here) allow us to fellowship in peace, with the Lord.
Sincerely,
Mikey
Go start your own thread, then---in NON-TRADITIONAL! Your unorthodox beliefs could easily lead people astray from the truth about who God is. In answer to a previous question you asked:
Yes, you have been duped. Denying Holy Spirit grieves God.
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 02:19:08
: howard Tue Jul 24, 2012 - 17:48:18
: Lively Stone Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 17:27:08
: howard Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55
: Lively Stone Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46
: howard Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.
Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation
[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Who was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding
Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?
Get into the New Testament, howie.
Holy Spirit was with the Father.
Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.
same job function LS you just admitted it
lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT
Luke 1
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
good news don't you think!
Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!
Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.
Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.
Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.
Look it is written Jesus created everything in heaven
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
All things created in heaven by Jesus,.
This settles it for me:
Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep."
John 10:7
and
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."
John 10:1
Howard has entered the sheepfold by The Door; the Word of God; and he is doing the Good Shepherding of God's flock, and I hear my Master's Voice; the LORD Jesus Christ.
If I may say so; well done Howard.
AND...
I thank God for you, and for ALL His faithful servants.
Mikey
Welcome to the way! Have A GREAT DAY! ::clappingoverhead::
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:19:53
Welcome to the way! Have A GREAT DAY! ::clappingoverhead::
The wrong way, you mean.
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Debate/wrongway.jpg)
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:07:12
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 06:33:38
: chosenone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 03:23:14
Mikey you may be mistaken about what you said. Howard does not believe that The Holy Spirit is God. He says that The Holy Spirit is the angel gabriel. ::shrug::
Oh my! Really?
Have I been duped?
Will you then, chose none, please show ME where Jesus says the Holy Spirit is God?
Surely that statement MUST BE in the Word of God, right?
So please, show me where it IS, because I cannot find that STATEMENT.
However, as I have examined the man's every post, all I find him doing is exalting the Word of God, with references and everything, above the thoughts of church tradition. If that isn't glorifying the Lord, I don't know what is.
The Sword of the Spirit IS the Word of God (are you saying that it isn't?), and that is what I see (and verify) is coming out of his mouth, that is, in his spirit. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and truly, he seems more interested in glorifying the Word of God than in attracting attention to him self.
There is something else I happened upon which is even more interesting,
John 7:39
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Maybe we should all do like Howard and exalt the Word of the Lord and seek His glorification so we might all be delivered from the traditions of men - something that Jesus said "makes the word of God of none effect".
Look at each and every post he made, just as I did. From God's own word, who is Jesus Christ, what can you PROVE is wrong with his posts? I cannot find anything wrong with them. Can you? Please, do show me, because no one wants to be deceived.
Until you or someone else does so, it seems to me that you are exalting opinion and tradition against what the word of God says very plainly.
So I will have to agree with God's Word, for God says "He sent His word and healed us".
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
Sincerely,
Mikey
Exalting the word of the Lord? How? How are you healed by God? How is His power manifest in you?
HOLY SPIRIT!
Rejecting Him is not exalting anyone oneself and leaning on one's own understanding.
'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,'
Says the Lord of hosts.
"Exalting the word of the Lord? How?"
By receiving and ACCEPTING the Scriptures as absolute truth.
Both the New Testament AND the Old Testament, for the New was born out of the Old."How are you healed by God?"
In Adam all die, but in Christ ALL are made alive.
All mankind (except Christ Jesus) are of Adam's seed, and as such we are ALL living under a sentence of death. But Jesus Christ opened up for us a New and LIVING Way for us to be reconciled with God - through Himself, and by His Spirit.
Howard presents the Scriptures: the Word of God. That IS Jesus Christ!
I receive the Word of God, with joy!
I believe the Word of God!
And the Word of God is making me Whole!
For the Word of God, and His Word ALONE is good for teaching and for reproof, that the man of God can be completely equipped for every good work.Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
"How is His power manifest in you?"
2 Samuel 22:33
God is my strength and power, And He makes my way perfect.Because I FOLLOW HIM! And...
1 Chronicles 29:11
Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory, The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, And You are exalted as head over all. Both riches and honor come from You, And You reign over all. In Your hand is power and might; In Your hand it is to make great And to give strength to all.So why the frowning face, wagging "no", LS? You look disappointed, and disapproving.
Shouldn't you be filled with Joy at the revelation of God's Word?
I AM! ::disco::
"Rejecting Him is not exalting anyone oneself and leaning on one's own understanding."
I'm the one receiving Him, the Word of God! You're the one rejecting God's word, instead leaning on tradition and your own understanding - and look - it's made you sad and now grumpy too. What a shame.
Sincerely,
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:48:28
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:07:12
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 06:33:38
: chosenone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 03:23:14
Mikey you may be mistaken about what you said. Howard does not believe that The Holy Spirit is God. He says that The Holy Spirit is the angel gabriel. ::shrug::
Oh my! Really?
Have I been duped?
Will you then, chose none, please show ME where Jesus says the Holy Spirit is God?
Surely that statement MUST BE in the Word of God, right?
So please, show me where it IS, because I cannot find that STATEMENT.
However, as I have examined the man's every post, all I find him doing is exalting the Word of God, with references and everything, above the thoughts of church tradition. If that isn't glorifying the Lord, I don't know what is.
The Sword of the Spirit IS the Word of God (are you saying that it isn't?), and that is what I see (and verify) is coming out of his mouth, that is, in his spirit. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and truly, he seems more interested in glorifying the Word of God than in attracting attention to him self.
There is something else I happened upon which is even more interesting,
John 7:39
But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Maybe we should all do like Howard and exalt the Word of the Lord and seek His glorification so we might all be delivered from the traditions of men - something that Jesus said "makes the word of God of none effect".
Look at each and every post he made, just as I did. From God's own word, who is Jesus Christ, what can you PROVE is wrong with his posts? I cannot find anything wrong with them. Can you? Please, do show me, because no one wants to be deceived.
Until you or someone else does so, it seems to me that you are exalting opinion and tradition against what the word of God says very plainly.
So I will have to agree with God's Word, for God says "He sent His word and healed us".
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
Sincerely,
Mikey
Exalting the word of the Lord? How? How are you healed by God? How is His power manifest in you?
HOLY SPIRIT!
Rejecting Him is not exalting anyone oneself and leaning on one's own understanding.
'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,'
Says the Lord of hosts.
"Exalting the word of the Lord? How?"
By receiving and ACCEPTING the Scriptures as absolute truth.
Both the New Testament AND the Old Testament, for the New was born out of the Old.
"How are you healed by God?"
In Adam all die, but in Christ ALL are made alive.
All mankind (except Christ Jesus) are of Adam's seed, and as such we are ALL living under a sentence of death. But Jesus Christ opened up for us a New and LIVING Way for us to be reconciled with God - through Himself, and by His Spirit.
Howard presents the Scriptures: the Word of God. That IS Jesus Christ!
I receive the Word of God, with joy!
I believe the Word of God!
And the Word of God is making me Whole!
For the Word of God, and His Word ALONE is good for teaching and for reproof, that the man of God can be completely equipped for every good work.
Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
"How is His power manifest in you?"
2 Samuel 22:33
God is my strength and power, And He makes my way perfect.
Because I FOLLOW HIM! And...
1 Chronicles 29:11
Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory, The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, And You are exalted as head over all. Both riches and honor come from You, And You reign over all. In Your hand is power and might; In Your hand it is to make great And to give strength to all.
So why the frowning face, wagging "no", LS? You look disappointed, and disapproving.
Shouldn't you be filled with Joy at the revelation of God's Word?
I AM! ::disco::
"Rejecting Him is not exalting anyone oneself and leaning on one's own understanding."
I'm the one receiving Him, the Word of God! You're the one rejecting God's word, instead leaning on tradition and your own understanding - and look - it's made you sad and now grumpy too. What a shame.
Sincerely,
Mikey
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:19:53
Welcome to the way! Have A GREAT DAY! ::clappingoverhead::
Thank you!
In fact, I think I am having a Great Day - maybe even... THAT One.
Does anyone else hear the sound of Niagara Falls?
WOW!
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:01:00
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:19:53
Welcome to the way! Have A GREAT DAY! ::clappingoverhead::
Thank you!
In fact, I think I am having a Great Day - maybe even... THAT One.
Does anyone else hear the sound of Niagara Falls?
WOW!
Mikey
You are AWESOME! My husband asked me if I wanted to go there last week and last night I told him it's on!
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:53:28
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
LS, I don't know who you think you are fighting with, not me for sure.
Perhaps you are fighting with yourself, you do seem conflicted. ::frustrated::
I certainly don't want to quarrel with you, I prefer the perfect peace of a mind stayed on God's Word.
Yes...
The Lord says to "Rule in the midst of your enemies."
And so I rule over my own heart, submitting to the Word of God!
Yeah, though I walk through this flesh, the very shadow of death, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy Word and Thy Spirit, They comfort me....
And He prepareth a feast for me, in the midst of my enemies...
Truly, I shall dwell in the House of The LORD forever,
and ever, AMEN!
peace to you LS,
Mikey
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:06:11
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:01:00
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:19:53
Welcome to the way! Have A GREAT DAY! ::clappingoverhead::
Thank you!
In fact, I think I am having a Great Day - maybe even... THAT One.
Does anyone else hear the sound of Niagara Falls?
WOW!
Mikey
You are AWESOME! My husband asked me if I wanted to go there last week and last night I told him it's on!
Congratulations! I Hear You!
May you and your Husband have a Wonderful Time!
Also, enjoy the Mist that goes up every morning, and those long walks in the cool of the Evening too!
It is a Great Place, and a beautiful place to spend quality time as One with Him.
May God Greatly Bless you and everyone you love, inn Jesus MIGHTY Name!
Enjoy!
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:10:38
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:53:28
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
LS, I don't know who you think you are fighting with, not me for sure.
Perhaps you are fighting with yourself, you do seem conflicted. ::frustrated::
I certainly don't want to quarrel with you, I prefer the perfect peace of a mind stayed on God's Word.
Yes...
The Lord says to "Rule in the midst of your enemies."
And so I rule over my own heart, submitting to the Word of God!
Yeah, though I walk through this flesh, the very shadow of death, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy Word and Thy Spirit, They comfort me....
And He prepareth a feast for me, in the midst of my enemies...
Truly, I shall dwell in the House of The LORD forever,
and ever, AMEN!
peace to you LS,
Mikey
There is only always a battle between the forces of darkness and the forces of Light. Those who insist that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ in the world have fallen for a lie of the enemy.
The Truth will always oppose and defeat the lie.
Have a nice day yourself.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:42:07
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:10:38
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:53:28
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
LS, I don't know who you think you are fighting with, not me for sure.
Perhaps you are fighting with yourself, you do seem conflicted. ::frustrated::
I certainly don't want to quarrel with you, I prefer the perfect peace of a mind stayed on God's Word.
Yes...
The Lord says to "Rule in the midst of your enemies."
And so I rule over my own heart, submitting to the Word of God!
Yeah, though I walk through this flesh, the very shadow of death, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy Word and Thy Spirit, They comfort me....
And He prepareth a feast for me, in the midst of my enemies...
Truly, I shall dwell in the House of The LORD forever,
and ever, AMEN!
peace to you LS,
Mikey
There is only always a battle between the forces of darkness and the forces of Light. Those who insist that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ in the world have fallen for a lie of the enemy.
The Truth will always oppose and defeat the lie.
Have a nice day yourself.
Who said that?
"... that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ..."
I didn't say that.
Neither did anyone else, but you - just now.
What Howard asked you to SHOW was where the scriptures say that "the Holy Spirit is God".
What Howard did show were scriptures which demonstrate that God sends spirits, some Holy (carrying His Message in love and truth) and some Evil (as shown in the book of Job). For Christ created them ALL, and Christ RULES over them all.
It looks like you are putting your words in our mouths, and trying to make us liars, LS.
C'mon now LS, don't be a naughty one!
So rather than accuse us, why don't you QUOTE US, even as I have just quoted you.
By behaving the way you are...
You're not painting a very flattering picture of your own self.
We are with all truth and sincerity trying to keep you on track.
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 09:21:46
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:42:07
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:10:38
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:53:28
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
LS, I don't know who you think you are fighting with, not me for sure.
Perhaps you are fighting with yourself, you do seem conflicted. ::frustrated::
I certainly don't want to quarrel with you, I prefer the perfect peace of a mind stayed on God's Word.
Yes...
The Lord says to "Rule in the midst of your enemies."
And so I rule over my own heart, submitting to the Word of God!
Yeah, though I walk through this flesh, the very shadow of death, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy Word and Thy Spirit, They comfort me....
And He prepareth a feast for me, in the midst of my enemies...
Truly, I shall dwell in the House of The LORD forever,
and ever, AMEN!
peace to you LS,
Mikey
There is only always a battle between the forces of darkness and the forces of Light. Those who insist that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ in the world have fallen for a lie of the enemy.
The Truth will always oppose and defeat the lie.
Have a nice day yourself.
Who said that?
"... that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ..."
I didn't say that. Neither did anyone else, but you - just now.
What Howard asked you to SHOW was where the scriptures say that "the Holy Spirit is God".
What Howard did show were scriptures which demonstrate that God sends spirits, some Holy (carrying His Message in love and truth) and some Evil (as shown in the book of Job). For Christ created them ALL, and Christ RULES over them all.
It looks like you are putting your words in our mouths, and trying to make us liars, LS.
C'mon now LS, don't be a naughty one!
So rather than accuse us, why don't you QUOTE US, even as I have just quoted you.
By behaving the way you are...
You're not painting a very flattering picture of your own self.
We are with all truth and sincerity trying to keep you on track.
Mikey
Anyone who reads my post knows I DIDN'T say that...which makes you what? What do we call people who speak lies?
You would do well to keep yourself on track, seeing as you cannot quote people with much integrity.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:42:07
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:10:38
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:53:28
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
LS, I don't know who you think you are fighting with, not me for sure.
Perhaps you are fighting with yourself, you do seem conflicted. ::frustrated::
I certainly don't want to quarrel with you, I prefer the perfect peace of a mind stayed on God's Word.
Yes...
The Lord says to "Rule in the midst of your enemies."
And so I rule over my own heart, submitting to the Word of God!
Yeah, though I walk through this flesh, the very shadow of death, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy Word and Thy Spirit, They comfort me....
And He prepareth a feast for me, in the midst of my enemies...
Truly, I shall dwell in the House of The LORD forever,
and ever, AMEN!
peace to you LS,
Mikey
There is only always a battle between the forces of darkness and the forces of Light. Those who insist that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ in the world have fallen for a lie of the enemy.
The Truth will always oppose and defeat the lie.
Have a nice day yourself.
There it is (I bolded your statement in #619 and anyone can scroll up and see that those are YOUR WORDS in YOUR POST.)
Looks like you laid a trap and got caught in it yourself.
Thou shalt not lie in wait for blood!
God will always catch you in your own lies.
Mikey
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:11:17
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 06:42:49
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 02:38:00
I gather you haven't read the entire thread... ::frown::
You gather wrong.
I read every post.
It is God who is gathering together His elect, as the scriptures teach.
And the tares are gathered together too, but in another place.
Now if you don't mind, I would like to enjoy the Bread that Howard has brought to the table.
It is UNleavened Bread, and that is what the Lord Jesus Christ prefers on His banquet table.
We are gonna drink the Lord favored wine too, together.
So please (no one is forcing you to eat or drink here) allow us to fellowship in peace, with the Lord.
Sincerely,
Mikey
Go start your own thread, then---in NON-TRADITIONAL! Your unorthodox beliefs could easily lead people astray from the truth about who God is. In answer to a previous question you asked:
Yes, you have been duped. Denying Holy Spirit grieves God.
LS
I don't deny the HS!
My post has not denied the HS
I know he is not who you say he is.
You still have not shown us God the HS from the bible.
Thanks Mikey
Peace to you in the mighty name of Jesus
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Then why doesn't the bible just say it's the trinity instead of man having to add to the bible? I have never seen a verse say "this is the trinity". God is not the author of confusion, the word of God isn't confusing, he say's what he says and means what he says, nothing is supposed to be added to it.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Genesis 1v1-2
what did he mean by "the spirit of God moving the upon waters?
What spirit is this?
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
There is a HS and it is a He, but he is not God
I don't ad have not denied the HS he does exist but he is not God
He is not on Equal footing as Jesus and The Father
He does not have the power of Jesus and the Father
God the HS is a doctrine believed but not proved this is why I put the verse prove all things
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Why is it you that you don't put God the HS, or God the Father or God the Son?
The way the trinitarians all it?
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 10:47:18
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:42:07
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 08:10:38
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 07:53:28
You cannot receive the word of the Lord except by the work of the Spirit of Truth---Holy Spirit, whom you deny.
It's a good thing that God is ALL merciful.
LS, I don't know who you think you are fighting with, not me for sure.
Perhaps you are fighting with yourself, you do seem conflicted. ::frustrated::
I certainly don't want to quarrel with you, I prefer the perfect peace of a mind stayed on God's Word.
Yes...
The Lord says to "Rule in the midst of your enemies."
And so I rule over my own heart, submitting to the Word of God!
Yeah, though I walk through this flesh, the very shadow of death, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy Word and Thy Spirit, They comfort me....
And He prepareth a feast for me, in the midst of my enemies...
Truly, I shall dwell in the House of The LORD forever,
and ever, AMEN!
peace to you LS,
Mikey
There is only always a battle between the forces of darkness and the forces of Light. Those who insist that Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ in the world have fallen for a lie of the enemy.
The Truth will always oppose and defeat the lie.
Have a nice day yourself.
There it is (I bolded your statement in #619 and anyone can scroll up and see that those are YOUR WORDS in YOUR POST.)
Looks like you laid a trap and got caught in it yourself.
Thou shalt not lie in wait for blood!
God will always catch you in your own lies.
Mikey
Looks like you have reading comprehension problems. I said Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ. I don't know what you think you are doing here, but can't be good.
I haven't lied...but you are spreading thick muck.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:10:07
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Then why doesn't the bible just say it's the trinity instead of man having to add to the bible? I have never seen a verse say "this is the trinity". God is not the author of confusion, the word of God isn't confusing, he say's what he says and means what he says, nothing is supposed to be added to it.
I've notice that all trinitarians that I have debated never speak of the Godhead
Which is written. In the Godhead there is no room for a third being.
Romans 1:20-21 (KJV)
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Look at the 21 verse
We know Jesus is God
We know the Father is God
We cannot read whet the HS is God
So instead of having a trinity which is not written which makes it the imagination of mans mind
God said Godhead
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup3.gif)
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psalm 104:30)
What spirits are these?
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:42:57
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup3.gif)
LS
Are you giving the approval that God the HS started in the NT?
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And
the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
::clappingoverhead::
Manna, Fish!
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
Which God is having this spirit to do this?
And God is telling God the HS to go get his hands dirty and do some work
Something is not right.
Why is God the HS doing the dirty work?
Again let's read the same thing from David that Moses had wrote
hou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psalm 104:30)
Who created or renewest God or God the HS?
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Godhead.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Godhead.html)
The Ministry of the Triune Godhead
Scripture links these three Persons of the Godhead together so closely in so many divine activities that it would be foolish to deny that any one of them is God. Observe some of those activities:
• Creating the World. All three were involved in creation: the Father (Genesis 1:1); the Son (John 1:3, 10; Colossians 1:16); and the Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Psalm 104:30). If all three created, then God the Creator must exist in three Persons.
• Sending the Son. All three members of the Trinity were active in the incarnation. When Mary questioned the angel about the possibility of a virgin birth, the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). The power of the Father, ministered through the agency of the Spirit, resulted in the birth of the Son into the world. This close association in the birth of the Savior is further indication of their oneness.
• Identifying the Messiah. At precisely the proper moment, Jesus Christ was revealed to Israel as her Messiah. John the Baptist was the chosen instrument and the act of baptism was the chosen means (Matthew 3:16-17). As the Spirit came upon the Son, the Father's voice was heard from heaven expressing His approval. It was another powerful testimony to the eternal triune Godhead.
• Providing Redemption. Two central passages bring the three members of the Godhead together in providing for man's eternal salvation. "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!" (Hebrews 9:14). It was the offering of the Son to the Father by the power of the Spirit. The Apostle Peter taught, furthermore, that God the Father chose us to salvation, God the Son paid for it by shedding His blood, and God the Spirit set us apart unto the obedience of faith (1 Peter 1:1-2). Without each Person of the Godhead doing His part, we would remain in our sins.
• Proclaiming Salvation. In the early years of the church, God did some spectacular things to verify the gospel message which the apostles were preaching. The writer to the Hebrews tells us, "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will" (Hebrews 2:3-4). It was the same message that was first spoken by the Son Himself. When the apostles proclaimed it, the Father bore witness to its truthfulness by bestowing miraculous gifts through the Spirit. It was not only a powerful witness to the truth of the message, but another demonstration of the triune God at work.
• Sending the Spirit. The three Persons of the Trinity are so interwoven in sending the Spirit into the world that it is difficult to distinguish between them. In one passage it is stated that the Father would send the Spirit in Christ's name and that He would testify concerning Christ (John 14:26). In another it is said that the Son would send Him from the Father (John 15:26). In yet another, the Father sends Him and calls Him the Spirit of His Son (Galatians 4:6). What a picture of unity—such perfect unity that the actions of one are considered to be the actions of the other. The Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. But all three are vitally involved in His coming.
• Indwelling Believers. Jesus taught His disciples that both He and His Father would make their home with them (John 14:23). But their indwelling would be in the Person of the Comforter, the Spirit of truth (John 14:16-17). As the Spirit of both the Father and the Son, His indwelling is the indwelling of the Godhead. That would not be possible unless the three are one.
• Baptizing Believers. In our Lord's commission to His disciples He said, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19). The unity of the Godhead is declared by combining them in one "name" (singular). Yet the distinctiveness of the Persons is maintained by listing them separately. It is another link in the long chain of evidence that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one God.
• Entering God's Presence. All three members of the Godhead are intimately involved in the believer's access into the presence of God. Speaking of Christ, the Apostle Paul taught, "For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit" (Ephesians 2:18). Both Jews and Gentiles can approach the Father through the merits of the Son with the help of the Spirit.
• Blessing Believers. In Paul's final remarks to the Corinthian Christians, he linked the three members of the Godhead together in a beautiful benediction: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all" (2 Corinthians 13:14). Unless the three are one, eternally and equally supreme, there would be little reason to put them together on an equal basis like this in a divine blessing. The apostle certainly considered them to be one.
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus and the Father
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:43:09
Which God is having this spirit to do this?
And God is telling God the HS to go get his hands dirty and do some work
Something is not right.
Why is God the HS doing the dirty work?
Again let's read the same thing from David that Moses had wrote
hou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psalm 104:30)
Who created or renewest God or God the HS?
If you read further in Genesis 1 you will hear God say "
Let US make man in OUR image".
How can God
send Himself to do a work? Hmmm..
"
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him".
Is God sending God into the world to save it?
Yes---the
Father sent the
Son into the world, and baptized Him with His
Spirit. All
3 persons of the Godhead were involved in our salvation. God is a trinity. It is clearly revealed in scripture.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:03:55
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.
+1. I agree with the bold, Howard.
Why hasn't God the Holy spirit showed you all these things
The Godhead is written
Yet your God the HS refuse to show you
And how can God the HS allow you to defend him by using grammar or a capital S
Hi I'm God the HS you can find me by the capital S in the word Spirit
Stick with the RCC version it sounds better
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:09:24
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:03:55
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.
+1. I agree with the bold, Howard.
Cool
Can you show me where the Holy Spirit is God
Keep in mind it says Godhead
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:56:02
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
I don't care if the original didn't capatilize words. One writes God, not god out of respect. I am asking you to respect the Holy Spirit by capatilizing his name as you would Jesus or God. I am not basing God the Holy Spirit on grammar, but upon scripture. I am asking for capatilizing out of pure respect for the honorable being, third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:03:55
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus and the Father
The head or SOURCE of all things is God. No one is left out. Holy Spirit doesn't proclaim Himself---He points to Christ and glorifies the Father.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:08:04
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:43:09
Which God is having this spirit to do this?
And God is telling God the HS to go get his hands dirty and do some work
Something is not right.
Why is God the HS doing the dirty work?
Again let's read the same thing from David that Moses had wrote
hou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. (Psalm 104:30)
Who created or renewest God or God the HS?
If you read further in Genesis 1 you will hear God say "Let US make man in OUR image".
How can God send Himself to do a work? Hmmm..
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him".
Is God sending God into the world to save it? Yes---the Father sent the Son into the world, and baptized Him with His Spirit. All 3 persons of the Godhead were involved in our salvation. God is a trinity. It is clearly revealed in scripture.
You can read in proverbs 2
Proverbs 30:4 (KJV)
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
You can read in Isaiah 2
Isaiah 57:15 (KJV)
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place , with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
I read 2 so the us in genesis brings us to 2
Show me the third
Let me nail the coffin
Head to revelation
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Take away the angel and man and we are stuck with Jesus and God the Father
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:13:03
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:56:02
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
I don't care if the original didn't capatilize words. One writes God, not god out of respect. I am asking you to respect the Holy Spirit by capatilizing his name as you would Jesus or God. I am not basing God the Holy Spirit on grammar, but upon scripture. I am asking for capatilizing out of pure respect for the honorable being, third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
Your emotion don't matter
Facts are facts grammar don't dictate the holy spirit title
there are many spirit of God and not one is God and to think that
The determining factor is a capital s is purely emotions
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This is one of my questions that hasn't been answered, how can we be forgiven for an aspect of the trinity if Jesus is an equal part?
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:25:12
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:13:03
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:56:02
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
I don't care if the original didn't capatilize words. One writes God, not god out of respect. I am asking you to respect the Holy Spirit by capatilizing his name as you would Jesus or God. I am not basing God the Holy Spirit on grammar, but upon scripture. I am asking for capatilizing out of pure respect for the honorable being, third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
Your emotion don't matter
Facts are facts grammar don't dictate the holy spirit title
there are many spirit of God and not one is God and to think that
The determining factor is a capital s is purely emotions
LOL. Nowhere did I say a capital "S" was a determining factor about whether the Holy Spirit is God or not. I gave you scriptures from Genesis and Revelation (they are also found in John, Acts, 1 Corinthians, and several other places) which show the Holy Spirit to be a Person, and a member of the Godhead. If you want to ignore those scriptures that's your prerogative. If you'd rather be referred to as howard than Howard that's fine with me too. ::smile::
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:26:18
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This is one of my questions that hasn't been answered, how can we be forgiven for an aspect of the trinity if Jesus is an equal part?
http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html)
There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put,
the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will.The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had "not lied to men but to God." It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."
We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26).
You would get a clearer picture by reading the scriptures.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:25:12
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:13:03
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:56:02
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
I don't care if the original didn't capatilize words. One writes God, not god out of respect. I am asking you to respect the Holy Spirit by capatilizing his name as you would Jesus or God. I am not basing God the Holy Spirit on grammar, but upon scripture. I am asking for capatilizing out of pure respect for the honorable being, third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
Your emotion don't matter
Facts are facts grammar don't dictate the holy spirit title
there are many spirit of God and not one is God and to think that
The determining factor is a capital s is purely emotions
You have been asked to use the capitals in the name, Holy Spirit, and you are now being dismissive and incredibly rude. there is no possible way one can have a discussion with people who act like that. Not only that, but it reveals a character that still needs to be touched by the oil of Holy Spirit.
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
we can blaspheme Jesus But not the HS
try putting this HS in the verse you put
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Let's read about those who teach Gods word wrong
Matthew 5:19 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Look what God did to those who taught and done his word wrongly
Romans 1:18-21,26,28 (KJV)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Read the whole chapter
That holy spirit that is blasphemed and will not be forgiven is God's word
It is not God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:33:39
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:26:18
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This is one of my questions that hasn't been answered, how can we be forgiven for an aspect of the trinity if Jesus is an equal part?
http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html)
There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put, the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will.
The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had "not lied to men but to God." It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."
We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26).
You would get a clearer picture by reading the scriptures.
I agree, scripture says it all.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
The entire Trinity is personified as male. Father, Son and Holy Spirit is also 'He'.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html)
A common mistake made with regard to the Holy Spirit is referring to the Spirit as "it," something the Bible never does. The Holy Spirit is a person. He has the attributes of personhood, performs the actions of persons, and has personal relationships. He has insight (1 Corinthians 2:10-11). He knows things, which requires an intellect (Romans 8:27). He has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11). He convicts of sin (John 16:8). He performs miracles (Acts 8:39). He guides (John 16:13). He intercedes between persons (Romans 8:26). He is to be obeyed (Acts 10:19-20). He can be lied to (Acts 5:3), resisted (Acts 7:51), grieved (Ephesians 4:30), blasphemed (Matthew 12:31), even insulted (Hebrews 10:29). He relates to the apostles (Acts 15:28) and to each member of the Trinity (John 16:14; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). The personhood of the Holy Spirit is presented without question in the Bible, but what about gender?
Linguistically, it is clear that masculine theistic terminology dominates the Scriptures. Throughout both testaments, references to God use masculine pronouns. Specific names for God (e.g., Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai, Kurios, Theos, etc.) are all in the masculine gender. God is never given a feminine name, or referred to using feminine pronouns. The Holy Spirit is referred to in the masculine throughout the New Testament, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral. The Hebrew word for "spirit" (ruach) is feminine in Genesis 1:2. But the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew has nothing to do with gender identity.
Theologically speaking, since the Holy Spirit is God, we can make some statements about Him from general statements about God. God is spirit as opposed to physical or material. God is invisible and spirit (i.e., non-body) - (John 4:24; Luke 24:39; Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17). This is why no material thing was ever to be used to represent God (Exodus 20:4). If gender is an attribute of the body, then a spirit does not have gender. God, in His essence, has no gender.
Gender identifications of God in the Bible are not unanimous. Many people think that the Bible presents God in exclusively male terms, but this is not the case. God is said to give birth in the book of Job and portrays Himself as a mother in Isaiah. Jesus described the Father as being like a woman in search of a lost coin in Luke 15 (and Himself as a "mother hen" in Matthew 23:37). In Genesis 1:26-27 God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness," and then "God created humankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female he created them." Thus, the image of God was male and female - not simply one or the other. This is further confirmed in Genesis 5:2, which can be literally translated as "He created them male and female; when they were created, he blessed them and named them Adam." The Hebrew term "adam" means "man" - the context showing whether it means "man" (as opposed to woman) or "mankind" (in the collective sense). Therefore, to whatever degree humanity is made in the image of God, gender is not an issue.
Masculine imagery in revelation is not without significance, however. A second time that God was specifically said to be revealed via a physical image was when Jesus was asked to show the Father to the disciples in John chapter 14. He responds in verse 8 by saying, "The person who has seen me has seen the Father!" Paul makes it clear that Jesus was the exact image of God in Colossians 1:15 calling Jesus "the image of the invisible God." This verse is couched in a section that demonstrates Christ's superiority over all creation. Most ancient religions believed in a pantheon - both gods and goddesses - that were worthy of worship. But one of Judeo-Christianity's distinctives is its belief in a supreme Creator. Masculine language better relates this relationship of creator to creation. As a man comes into a woman from without to make her pregnant, so God creates the universe from without rather than birthing it from within . . . As a woman cannot impregnate herself, so the universe cannot create itself. Paul echoes this idea in 1 Timothy 2:12-14 when he refers to the creation order as a template for church order.
In the end, whatever our theological explanation, the fact is that God used exclusively masculine terms to refer to Himself and almost exclusively masculine terminology even in metaphor. Through the Bible He taught us how to speak of Him, and it was in masculine relational terms. So, while the Holy Spirit is neither male nor female in His essence, He is properly referred to in the masculine by virtue of His relation to creation and biblical revelation. There is absolutely no biblical basis for viewing the Holy Spirit as the "female" member of the Trinity.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
Jesus says "
When He, the Comforter(The Spirit of Truth) has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16) So Jesus is describing the Spirit as a "He". God is infinite though----so He has infinite attributes. None of us can understand infinite things with finite limited minds.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:36:53
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
we can blaspheme Jesus But not the HS
try putting this HS in the verse you put
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Let's read about those who teach Gods word wrong
Matthew 5:19 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Look what God did to those who taught and done his word wrongly
Romans 1:18-21,26,28 (KJV)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Read the whole chapter
That holy spirit that is blasphemed and will not be forgiven is God's word
It is not God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit
No, howard. Holy Spirit is a Person. Jesus is the Word. If you blaspheme Holy Spirit, which is pretty close to what you are doing here, you cannot be forgiven, because it is His work that brings you to repentance! If you deny Him, what forgiveness is there if you reject His work in you, and cannot come to repentance?
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:43:24
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
Jesus says "When He, the Comforter(The Spirit of Truth) has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16) So Jesus is describing the Spirit as a "He". God is infinite though----so He has infinite attributes. None of us can understand infinite things with finite limited minds.
The church is personified as female, a bride too, is the church a woman?
Can we just as easily say the church is a person now?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:36:43
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:43:24
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
Jesus says "When He, the Comforter(The Spirit of Truth) has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16) So Jesus is describing the Spirit as a "He". God is infinite though----so He has infinite attributes. None of us can understand infinite things with finite limited minds.
The church is personified as female, a bride too, is the church a woman?
Can we just as easily say the church is a person now?
http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html)
Question: "What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?"
Answer: The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2).
At that time, all believers will inhabit the heavenly city known as New Jerusalem, also called "the holy city" in Revelation 21:2 and 10. The New Jerusalem is not the church, but it takes on the church's characteristics. In his vision of the end of the age, the Apostle John sees the city coming down from heaven adorned "as a bride," meaning that the inhabitants of the city, the redeemed of the Lord, will be holy and pure, wearing white garments of holiness and righteousness. Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city. The city is called the bride because it encompasses all who are the bride, just as all the students of a school are sometimes called "the school."
As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the bride of Christ wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom. Until then, we remain faithful to Him and say with all the redeemed of the Lord, "Come, Lord Jesus!" (Revelation 22:20).
Now is the time for Wisdom, and Understanding.
It's Time for everyone to take a deep Breath, and LISTEN and acknowledge what is happening here, and where we are.
Indeed, Blasphemy is a serious crime, and so too is a conviction by Two or more Witnesses bearing the Truth.
So I am asking EVERYONE here to prayerfully reconsider any further steps before taking them.
I believe that the Word of God is for EVERYONE, and that it is ultimately up to each of us to approach our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; who is the ONLY mediator between God and man, with a sincere desire for God's best for ALL of us. Can we all agree on that point?
I want only the best for LS, and Howard, and Fish and everyone who has participated in this thread. Don't you too?
So let's take a prayerful "time-out" and consider Paul's exhortation to all, to consider each others conscience, and to not hold in contempt anyone who eats, or who does not eat, for sake of conscience. For each of us must live out our life before our Lord, who Sanctifies and Justifies each believer in His own timing. The truth in love.
I love you Howard, and you too Lively Stone, and everyone here also. Let's hang-out together later, and after a cooling down time better spent by each of us in the Presence of God.
I am going to pray for us all, that if any of us needs correction, that the Almighty One who is the Head of ALL would grant us a pathway to repentance, that we might all come to the full and saving knowledge of the Truth in Christ. Would anyone agree with me in that prayer?
Peace, my Brethren.
And May God bless you all, amen
Mikey
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:53:05
Now is the time for Wisdom, and Understanding.
It's Time for everyone to take a deep Breath, and LISTEN and acknowledge what is happening here, and where we are.
Indeed, Blasphemy is a serious crime, and so too is a conviction by Two or more Witnesses bearing the Truth.
So I am asking EVERYONE here to prayerfully reconsider any further steps before taking them.
I believe that the Word of God is for EVERYONE, and that it is ultimately up to each of us to approach our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; who is the ONLY mediator between God and man, with a sincere desire for God's best for ALL of us. Can we all agree on that point?
I want only the best for LS, and Howard, and Fish and everyone who has participated in this thread. Don't you too?
So let's take a prayerful "time-out" and consider Paul's exhortation to all, to consider each others conscience, and to not hold in contempt anyone who eats, or who does not eat, for sake of conscience. For each of us must live out our life before our Lord, who Sanctifies and Justifies each believer in His own timing. The truth in love.
I love you Howard, and you too Lively Stone, and everyone here also. Let's hang-out together later, and after a cooling down time better spent by each of us in the Presence of God.
I am going to pray for us all, that if any of us needs correction, that the Almighty One who is the Head of ALL would grant us a pathway to repentance, that we might all come to the full and saving knowledge of the Truth in Christ. Would anyone agree with me in that prayer?
Peace, my Brethren.
And May God bless you all, amen
Mikey
I am for it.
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:56:05
I am for it.
Thank you, Man of Honor, and...
I thank God for you too.
Sincerely
Mikey
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:34:40
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:25:12
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:13:03
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:56:02
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
I don't care if the original didn't capatilize words. One writes God, not god out of respect. I am asking you to respect the Holy Spirit by capatilizing his name as you would Jesus or God. I am not basing God the Holy Spirit on grammar, but upon scripture. I am asking for capatilizing out of pure respect for the honorable being, third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
Your emotion don't matter
Facts are facts grammar don't dictate the holy spirit title
there are many spirit of God and not one is God and to think that
The determining factor is a capital s is purely emotions
You have been asked to use the capitals in the name, Holy Spirit, and you are now being dismissive and incredibly rude. there is no possible way one can have a discussion with people who act like that. Not only that, but it reveals a character that still needs to be touched by the oil of Holy Spirit.
The person who is rude is you LS anyway if you rea my post the capital HS is visible
But what has that to do with anything find God the HS in the bible and quit using childish tactics
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:07:57
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:56:05
I am for it.
Thank you, Man of Honor, and...
I thank God for you too.
Sincerely
Mikey
Me too, God will hear the prayers.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:47:57
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:36:53
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
we can blaspheme Jesus But not the HS
try putting this HS in the verse you put
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Let's read about those who teach Gods word wrong
Matthew 5:19 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Look what God did to those who taught and done his word wrongly
Romans 1:18-21,26,28 (KJV)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Read the whole chapter
That holy spirit that is blasphemed and will not be forgiven is God's word
It is not God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit
No, howard. Holy Spirit is a Person. Jesus is the Word. If you blaspheme Holy Spirit, which is pretty close to what you are doing here, you cannot be forgiven, because it is His work that brings you to repentance! If you deny Him, what forgiveness is there if you reject His work in you, and cannot come to repentance?
Jesus words are spirit
Jesus is a spirit
John 4:24 (KJV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
When we run into the word spirit in the bible when does it apply to Jesus or the Father
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:39:03
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:07:57
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:56:05
I am for it.
Thank you, Man of Honor, and...
I thank God for you too.
Sincerely
Mikey
Me too, God will hear the prayers.
Thank you, Sweet one.
There is Beauty in the Bond of peace.
Mikey
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:33:05
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:25:12
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:13:03
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:56:02
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:42:02
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:36:01
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:23:59
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:51:47
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:01:10
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The New Testament if full of references to the Holy Spirit as a "He" and as a "person". Only a person can be "grieved" or "insulted". Acts says the Holy Spirit has made the Apostles overseers of the church which God bought with His own blood. Timothy states "The Spirit speaks expressly that in the last days many shall depart from the faith". Only a person can "speak".
The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a Person----He is part of the Trinity--Father Son and Holy Spirit---clearly taught in Scripture.
Fish
Are you saying God the HS started in the NT?
Is he in the OT?
Yes---the Holy Spirit is in the Bible from beginning to ending.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". (Gen. 1:1,2)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come" (Rev. 22:17)
Fish
Is this God the Holy spirit?
Yes---God the Holy Spirit. (spirit with a capital "S" please--He is God).
In order to determine the holy spirit from God the HS is by the use of a capital S?
What spirit would this be, by the way it's not capitalized
Exodus 35:31 (KJV)
And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
In the original writing the Hebrew language scrolls did not have punctuation or capitalization
How do you come up with a God the HS and trinity based on grammar
Brother you are reaching?
Are you a babe in the word?
I don't care if the original didn't capatilize words. One writes God, not god out of respect. I am asking you to respect the Holy Spirit by capatilizing his name as you would Jesus or God. I am not basing God the Holy Spirit on grammar, but upon scripture. I am asking for capatilizing out of pure respect for the honorable being, third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.
Your emotion don't matter
Facts are facts grammar don't dictate the holy spirit title
there are many spirit of God and not one is God and to think that
The determining factor is a capital s is purely emotions
LOL. Nowhere did I say a capital "S" was a determining factor about whether the Holy Spirit is God or not. I gave you scriptures from Genesis and Revelation (they are also found in John, Acts, 1 Corinthians, and several other places) which show the Holy Spirit to be a Person, and a member of the Godhead. If you want to ignore those scriptures that's your prerogative. If you'd rather be referred to as howard than Howard that's fine with me too. ::smile::
Where in those scriptures does it say that the Holy capital Spirit Is God
Where Fish?
Like I said before you have the trinitarians see the word spirit in your case capital s Spirit and you think it's God the HS
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:51:42
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:36:43
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:43:24
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
Jesus says "When He, the Comforter(The Spirit of Truth) has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16) So Jesus is describing the Spirit as a "He". God is infinite though----so He has infinite attributes. None of us can understand infinite things with finite limited minds.
The church is personified as female, a bride too, is the church a woman?
Can we just as easily say the church is a person now?
http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html)
Question: "What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?"
Answer: The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2).
At that time, all believers will inhabit the heavenly city known as New Jerusalem, also called "the holy city" in Revelation 21:2 and 10. The New Jerusalem is not the church, but it takes on the church's characteristics. In his vision of the end of the age, the Apostle John sees the city coming down from heaven adorned "as a bride," meaning that the inhabitants of the city, the redeemed of the Lord, will be holy and pure, wearing white garments of holiness and righteousness. Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city. The city is called the bride because it encompasses all who are the bride, just as all the students of a school are sometimes called "the school."
As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the bride of Christ wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom. Until then, we remain faithful to Him and say with all the redeemed of the Lord, "Come, Lord Jesus!" (Revelation 22:20).
Are you writing these articles you have posted? I noticed they are from the same website. Just curious.
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:33:39
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:26:18
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
This is one of my questions that hasn't been answered, how can we be forgiven for an aspect of the trinity if Jesus is an equal part?
http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html)
There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put, the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will.
The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had "not lied to men but to God." It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there." Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. "But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."
We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26).
You would get a clearer picture by reading the scriptures.
Where in the scriptures is God the HS
It takes more than reading it takes widom knowledge and understanding
Where is The HS called God?
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:18:17
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:03:55
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus and the Father
The head or SOURCE of all things is God. No one is left out. Holy Spirit doesn't proclaim Himself---He points to Christ and glorifies the Father.
The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God
Who are the God's in the verse?
Who is not included?
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:43:24
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
Jesus says "When He, the Comforter(The Spirit of Truth) has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16) So Jesus is describing the Spirit as a "He". God is infinite though----so He has infinite attributes. None of us can understand infinite things with finite limited minds.
We are to have the mind of Jesus
1 Corinthians 2:16 (KJV)
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Amos 3:7 (KJV)
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Acts 7:52-53 (KJV)
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: [53] Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Who gave the law?
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know how to prove the Godhead
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that Jesus created everything in heaven
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that the HS comes in many forms
I can tell when a person lacks understanding
I can tell when the HS has not visited you
Before any of us can receive the HS not God the HS we have to keep the commandments
I can tell who is faking knowledge and who is not
Revelation 3:1 (KJV)
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Hey everyone we have seven Spirits Of God
look at the capital s in Spirits we have 7 of them
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:00:22
The God head is Jesus and the Father
The head or SOURCE of all things is God. No one is left out. Holy Spirit doesn't proclaim Himself---He points to Christ and glorifies the Father.
[/quote]
The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God
Who are the God's in the verse?
Who is not included?
[/quote]
You do err, Howard - you have stepped out of bounds.
You are now being carnal, and speaking from yourself, not having rightly divided the word of truth.
NOW LISTEN to your brother, and return to the Lord Most High,
and you will find forgiveness for your trespass.
But press on at your own risk.
I extend to you the Right Hand of fellowship - will you refuse it?
Sincerely,
Mikey
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:32:46
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know how to prove the Godhead
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that Jesus created everything in heaven
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that the HS comes in many forms
I can tell when a person lacks understanding
I can tell when the HS has not visited you
Before any of us can receive the HS not God the HS we have to keep the commandments
I can tell who is faking knowledge and who is not
::frown::
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:10:24
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:00:22
The God head is Jesus and the Father
The head or SOURCE of all things is God. No one is left out. Holy Spirit doesn't proclaim Himself---He points to Christ and glorifies the Father.
The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God
Who are the God's in the verse?
Who is not included?
[/quote]
You do err, Howard - you have stepped out of bounds.
You are now being carnal, and speaking from yourself, not having rightly divided the word of truth.
NOW LISTEN to your brother, and return to the Lord Most High,
and you will find forgiveness for your trespass.
But press on at your own risk.
I extend to you the Right Hand of fellowship - will you refuse it?
Sincerely,
Mikeyt
[/quote]
Show me where Error at
God head
What is the meaning?
Don't get confuse with the protocol of God
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
How many God's do you see above?
After The Father and Jesus what is the chain of command
The angel
The man
Where is God the HS?
It's called understanding and increasing knowledge
Peace brother
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:30:04
Show me where Error at
God head
What is the meaning?
Don't get confuse with the protocol of God
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
How many God's do you see above?
After The Father and Jesus what is the chain of command
The angel
The man
Where is God the HS?
It's called understanding and increasing knowledge
Peace brother
Okay, this is error:
"The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God"
Most of that is YOUR words, not God's Word.
You demonstrate what you have accused others of: faking true knowledge.
As I said: you are being carnal now - so STOP. Turn. Re-Turn to the Word of the Lord.
And change your tone, and I shall Help you,
or,
go your own way.
Mikey
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:35:13
The person who is rude is you LS anyway if you rea my post the capital HS is visible
But what has that to do with anything find God the HS in the bible and quit using childish tactics
I'm not rude, howie. I am just a strong contender for the Truth. The devil hates me too, and I am glad about that.
Pray about it earnestly, howie. You can receive the truth just as easily I as did. God is no respecter of persons.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:42:37
Jesus words are spirit
Jesus is a spirit
John 4:24 (KJV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
When we run into the word spirit in the bible when does it apply to Jesus or the Father
Please post the scripture that defines Jesus as a spirit. He is a man, the Son of Man.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:00:22
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:18:17
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:03:55
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus and the Father
The head or SOURCE of all things is God. No one is left out. Holy Spirit doesn't proclaim Himself---He points to Christ and glorifies the Father.
The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God
Who are the God's in the verse?
Who is not included?
The word 'head' there means 'source'. God is the source of Jesus. Jesus is the source of man and man is the source of woman.
Godhead is the source of everything, and that includes Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who is portrayed as three at the baptism of Jesus Christ, and is who we need to name when we ourselves baptize others. If it were not for Holy Spirit, you wouldn't even have a Bible, nor would you be able to know God or function as a believer.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:32:46
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know how to prove the Godhead
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that Jesus created everything in heaven
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that the HS comes in many forms
I can tell when a person lacks understanding
I can tell when the HS has not visited you
Before any of us can receive the HS not God the HS we have to keep the commandments
I can tell who is faking knowledge and who is not
Bluster will get you nowhere.
Holy Spirit comes and dwells within us when we accept Jesus by faith. We don't have to keep the commandments for Him to come in.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:56:30
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:32:46
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know how to prove the Godhead
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that Jesus created everything in heaven
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that the HS comes in many forms
I can tell when a person lacks understanding
I can tell when the HS has not visited you
Before any of us can receive the HS not God the HS we have to keep the commandments
I can tell who is faking knowledge and who is not
Bluster will get you nowhere.
Holy Spirit comes and dwells within us when we accept Jesus by faith. We don't have to keep the commandments for Him to come in.
Yea the HS do dwell in us and this HS that dwells in us is not God the HS
God'sword is wha dwells in us LS
Jesus said
John 14:12-16 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. [13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Before you can get the HS you have to meet the conditions God said above
One of those conditions is keeping the commandments
This is Jesus words LS
Is this bluster
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:26:26
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:56:30
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:32:46
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know how to prove the Godhead
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that Jesus created everything in heaven
I can tell that the trinitarians did not know that the HS comes in many forms
I can tell when a person lacks understanding
I can tell when the HS has not visited you
Before any of us can receive the HS not God the HS we have to keep the commandments
I can tell who is faking knowledge and who is not
Bluster will get you nowhere.
Holy Spirit comes and dwells within us when we accept Jesus by faith. We don't have to keep the commandments for Him to come in.
Yea the HS do dwell in us and this HS that dwells in us is not God
Jesus said
John 14:12-16 (KJV)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. [13] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Before you can get the HS you have to meet the conditions God said above
One of those conditions is keeping the commandments
This is Jesus words LS
Is this bluster
No. Before we can have the indwelling Holy Spirit, we must exercise our faith for salvation. Jesus was telling His many followers that they need to continue to walk in love together until Holy Spirit comes at Pentecost. He came, and is here now, working in the life of every believer.
You seem to lack some basic understanding in the plain reading of the word, howie. The worst part of that is that you refuse correction.
John 14:15-21
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit15 "If you love me, obey[d] my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you. 17 He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you. 18 No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you. 19 Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live. 20 When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them."
Jesus says that He will be in us---how is that? BY His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ---who is GOD!
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:53:40
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 21:00:22
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:18:17
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:03:55
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 17:54:46
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:46:39
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 16:40:32
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 15:51:43
John 16:12 (KJV)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
The Lord had many things he wanted to say to the disciples but they could not bear it so he did not tell them
The Godhead is one of those lesson that many are not able to bear
God the holy Ghost is one of those subject people believe but can't prove
The Godhead doesn't require proof to those who know and love Him.
Who is the Godhead? Do you know?
Yes, the Godhead consists of the Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's read about the head and let's read if the Holy Spirit or God the Holy Spirit is there
Ephesians 5:23 (KJV)
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Again somebody is missing
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
The head of Jesus is God
Somebody got left out again
The God head is Jesus and the Father
The head or SOURCE of all things is God. No one is left out. Holy Spirit doesn't proclaim Himself---He points to Christ and glorifies the Father.
The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God
Who are the God's in the verse?
Who is not included?
The word 'head' there means 'source'. God is the source of Jesus. Jesus is the source of man and man is the source of woman.
Godhead is the source of everything, and that includes Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who is portrayed as three at the baptism of Jesus Christ, and is who we need to name when we ourselves baptize others. If it were not for Holy Spirit, you wouldn't even have a Bible, nor would you be able to know God or function as a believer.
Where are you getting this stuff from
The meaning of Head is this
Head: 1. To be chief of, command, foremost in importance. 2. To assume or be placed in the first position.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:44:40
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:35:13
The person who is rude is you LS anyway if you rea my post the capital HS is visible
But what has that to do with anything find God the HS in the bible and quit using childish tactics
I'm not rude, howie. I am just a strong contender for the Truth. The devil hates me too, and I am glad about that.
Pray about it earnestly, howie. You can receive the truth just as easily I as did. God is no respecter of persons.
you are Rude
God: 1. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people. 2. One that is worshiped or idealized as a god. 3. GOD. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic (the belief in one GOD) religions.
Head: 1. To be chief of, command, foremost in importance. 2. To assume or be placed in the first position.
Hood: 1. The state, condition, or quality of being. manhood. 2. All the members of a grouping of a specified nature: neighborhood, family, MAN, etc. (one body with more than one member).
Godhead: 1. Divinity. 2. The essential and divine nature of God.
Godhood: The state or quality of being a god; divinity.
minister: A person serving as an agent for another by carrying out specified orders.
Spirit: The Holy Ghost, a supernatural being.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:36:19
Where are you getting this stuff from
The meaning of Head is this
Head: 1. To be chief of, command, foremost in importance. 2. To assume or be placed in the first position.
Not in the verse you used. 'Kephale' in that verse refers to origin or source. In fact, the verse you are using isn't applicable to this discussion.
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:47:52
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:42:37
Jesus words are spirit
Jesus is a spirit
John 4:24 (KJV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
When we run into the word spirit in the bible when does it apply to Jesus or the Father
Please post the scripture that defines Jesus as a spirit. He is a man, the Son of Man.
John 20:27-28 (KJV)
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. [28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Thomas called Jesus God
Jesus is God
John 4:24 (KJV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus is a spirt he is not man now
Jesus is God
Unless you dont believe he is God
Then we have a bigger problem
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:44:33
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:36:19
Where are you getting this stuff from
The meaning of Head is this
Head: 1. To be chief of, command, foremost in importance. 2. To assume or be placed in the first position.
Not in the verse you used. 'Kephale' in that verse refers to origin or source. In fact, the verse you are using isn't applicable to this discussion.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The chief of the woman is man
The chief of man is Jesus
The chief of Jesus is God the Father
Here's a nice proof of the Trinity from scripture:
Who raised Jesus from the dead?
Did you say God? Good answer, for it is written...
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
But we also read Jesus saying and the Scriptures stating...
John 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
See? Jesus said He would do it.
Now the Holy Spirit...
Romans 8:11
The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
Now, the Father...
Romans 6:4
For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
Simple, eh?
If everyone would read just the Bible and spend time in meditation with God, and not listen to what people say, they'd get the facts straight!
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:48:04
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:47:52
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:42:37
Jesus words are spirit
Jesus is a spirit
John 4:24 (KJV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
When we run into the word spirit in the bible when does it apply to Jesus or the Father
Please post the scripture that defines Jesus as a spirit. He is a man, the Son of Man.
John 20:27-28 (KJV)
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. [28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Thomas called Jesus God
Jesus is God
John 4:24 (KJV)
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus is a spirt he is not man now
Jesus is God
Unless you dont believe he is God
Then we have a bigger problem
Sorry, but God the Father is Spirit, and Jesus is God the Son, who came as a man and remains a man. He rose out of the grave a man and ascended to the Father as a man, in His flesh, glorified, just as we will be one day.
When He left this earth, He sent His Spirit to be with us forever---that is Holy Spirit, who dwells in each believer. We have the same power that raised Jesus from the grave and who created the universe living inside us, if we are born again.
1 John 3:2Dear friends, we are already God's children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears.
But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is.
I will respond tomorrow good night
Peace in Jesus
One of my most favourite choruses:
http://youtu.be/O4MdUQKA5CQ (http://youtu.be/O4MdUQKA5CQ)
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:56:28
: Lively Stone Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:44:33
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 23:36:19
Where are you getting this stuff from
The meaning of Head is this
Head: 1. To be chief of, command, foremost in importance. 2. To assume or be placed in the first position.
Not in the verse you used. 'Kephale' in that verse refers to origin or source. In fact, the verse you are using isn't applicable to this discussion.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
The chief of the woman is man
The chief of man is Jesus
The chief of Jesus is God the Father
No---this does not belong in this discussion.
The origin of woman man; the origin of man is Jesus, and the source of Jesus is God the Father. Jesus doesn't need a chief, as He is already a part of the Godhead. Each member of the Godhead is equal in authority, although Jesus, taking on humanity, took on submission to His Father for us.
Philippians 2:6-11Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal's death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
and gave him the name above all other names,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:36:53
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
That holy spirit that is blasphemed and will not be forgiven is God's word
It is not God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit
So are you are saying that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is rejecting Gods word, in this case.So then according to you this would make the Holy Spirit Jesus as Jesus is the word of God made flesh.And Jesus is God.So then that would make The Holy Spirit God.
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:36:30
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:30:04
Show me where Error at
God head
What is the meaning?
Don't get confuse with the protocol of God
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
How many God's do you see above?
After The Father and Jesus what is the chain of command
The angel
The man
Where is God the HS?
It's called understanding and increasing knowledge
Peace brother
Okay, this is error:
"The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God"
Most of that is YOUR words, not God's Word.
You demonstrate what you have accused others of: faking true knowledge.
As I said: you are being carnal now - so STOP. Turn. Re-Turn to the Word of the Lord.
And change your tone, and I shall Help you,
or,
go your own way.
Mikey
Mike don't go emotional on me. What tone are you talking about?
Brother what makes you think I need you help, either you agree or you don't.
Anyway back to the topic
You error by not reading the post
Let's read it this time brother
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Let's find the Godhead in the verse
The head of every man is Jesus
The head of woman is is man
The head of Jesus is God
Can you find the Godhead in the verse?
I'll help you
Jesus is God
and God(the Father) is his head
Godhead
Man and woman are not part of the God head
The Holy spirit is not mentioned
Peace In Jesus
: bemark Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 02:22:09
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:36:53
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
That holy spirit that is blasphemed and will not be forgiven is God's word
It is not God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit
So are you are saying that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is rejecting Gods word, in this case.So then according to you this would make the Holy Spirit Jesus as Jesus is the word of God made flesh.And Jesus is God.So then that would make The Holy Spirit God.
Bemark
Go back and reread what I put and next time quote all of it
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 20:50:42
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:51:42
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 19:36:43
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:43:24
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:29:24
: fish153 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:19:18
: Bitter Sweet Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:15:33
Man and woman are 1 flesh, then we have Jesus and God. Does the holy spirit have male or female attributes?
God is not based on what attributes we have-----we are based on what attributes He has---He created us--not the other way around.
So the HS isn't personified as male or female? If the HS is a person, the third person, is the HS a he or a she? Jesus is male. God as you say is both since we are created in his image, where does that leave the HS?
Jesus says "When He, the Comforter(The Spirit of Truth) has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16) So Jesus is describing the Spirit as a "He". God is infinite though----so He has infinite attributes. None of us can understand infinite things with finite limited minds.
The church is personified as female, a bride too, is the church a woman?
Can we just as easily say the church is a person now?
http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/bride-of-Christ.html)
Question: "What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?"
Answer: The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2).
At that time, all believers will inhabit the heavenly city known as New Jerusalem, also called "the holy city" in Revelation 21:2 and 10. The New Jerusalem is not the church, but it takes on the church's characteristics. In his vision of the end of the age, the Apostle John sees the city coming down from heaven adorned "as a bride," meaning that the inhabitants of the city, the redeemed of the Lord, will be holy and pure, wearing white garments of holiness and righteousness. Some have misinterpreted verse 9 to mean the holy city is the bride of Christ, but that cannot be because Christ died for His people, not for a city. The city is called the bride because it encompasses all who are the bride, just as all the students of a school are sometimes called "the school."
As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the bride of Christ wait with great anticipation for the day when we will be united with our Bridegroom. Until then, we remain faithful to Him and say with all the redeemed of the Lord, "Come, Lord Jesus!" (Revelation 22:20).
Are you writing these articles you have posted? I noticed they are from the same website. Just curious.
It is a website, www.gotquestions.org (http://www.gotquestions.org). Any question and/or topic you want to seek answers for, they would provide you with the answers. I am pleased with most answers I obtain from the website.
I add the links, so I can show people that I rather not take credit for the answers coming from someone else.
t is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (John 6:63)
Note this, "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." Plain and simple, the Word of God is "spirit".
Notice what Paul states in Colossians:
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (Colossians 3:16)
Jesus words are spirit
Jesus words are holy
It is Jesus words that dwell in us
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 15:34:58
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:36:30
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:30:04
Show me where Error at
God head
What is the meaning?
Don't get confuse with the protocol of God
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
How many God's do you see above?
After The Father and Jesus what is the chain of command
The angel
The man
Where is God the HS?
It's called understanding and increasing knowledge
Peace brother
Okay, this is error:
"The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God"
Most of that is YOUR words, not God's Word.
You demonstrate what you have accused others of: faking true knowledge.
As I said: you are being carnal now - so STOP. Turn. Re-Turn to the Word of the Lord.
And change your tone, and I shall Help you,
or,
go your own way.
Mikey
Mike don't go emotional on me. What tone are you talking about?
Brother what makes you think I need you help, either you agree or you don't.
Anyway back to the topic
You error by not reading the post
Let's read it this time brother
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Let's find the Godhead in the verse
The head of every man is Jesus
The head of woman is is man
The head of Jesus is God
Can you find the Godhead in the verse?
I'll help you
Jesus is God
and God(the Father) is his head
Godhead
Man and woman are not part of the God head
The Holy spirit is not mentioned
Peace In Jesus
Now you're just showing your - er, uhh, "donkey", Howard.
See there, you went forward w/o even answering the call to fellowship and prayer, and you went and lost your Head . I warned you, but you think you can do it all by yourself. So go ahead, without your Head.
Can a Good Tree bear bad fruit?
Do you not know that the Word of God is Living and Active, even discerning the the thoughts and intents of
your heart?
You eat for knowledge, not for relationship. And you have reaped your just reward. Even your knowledge has corrupted you, separating you from your Brethren.
Nevertheless, by your poor choices God refined others further into His image.
Yes, God turns evil to good for them who truly love God and humble themselves, being obedient because they value relationship with God AND man more than they value mere knowledge of--.
Since you then know so much, please explain the difference between these phrases:
1. Jesus
2. Jesus Christ
3. Christ
4. Christ Jesus
5. The Lord and His Christ
6. LORD
7. Lord
Also, through the GodHead please show us the Spiritual fulfillment of the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant, and of course THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.
Then perhaps we might move on to how a "young man" overcomes SATAN.
So, as I said, YOU CHOOSE.
And feel free to go right on ahead, alone, since your... er... "Donkey" isn't even warning you of the peril ahead.
Now I shall return to His Flock who are soooooooo verrrrrrry Precious in His Sight.
you enjoy your self,
Mikey
What other spirit dwells in us?
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7)
What does the spirit represent in this set of scriptures?
Moreover Job continued his parable, and said, As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul; All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; (Job 27:1-3)
Above we see the two elements that a man was created from. The dust of the ground and the breath of life. Where did the Lord place this breath of life?
He placed it in the man's nostrils. When Job said, "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils." He simply meant that the "breath of life" is the "spirit" in his nostrils
In other words, the air that we breathe is one of the "spirits" of God which gives life to the soul.
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:27:56
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 15:34:58
: Mikey888 Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:36:30
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 22:30:04
Show me where Error at
God head
What is the meaning?
Don't get confuse with the protocol of God
Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
How many God's do you see above?
After The Father and Jesus what is the chain of command
The angel
The man
Where is God the HS?
It's called understanding and increasing knowledge
Peace brother
Okay, this is error:
"The word is Godhead, not man head or flesh head
The head of woman is man
The head of man is Jesus
the head of Jesus is God"
Most of that is YOUR words, not God's Word.
You demonstrate what you have accused others of: faking true knowledge.
As I said: you are being carnal now - so STOP. Turn. Re-Turn to the Word of the Lord.
And change your tone, and I shall Help you,
or,
go your own way.
Mikey
Mike don't go emotional on me. What tone are you talking about?
Brother what makes you think I need you help, either you agree or you don't.
Anyway back to the topic
You error by not reading the post
Let's read it this time brother
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Let's find the Godhead in the verse
The head of every man is Jesus
The head of woman is is man
The head of Jesus is God
Can you find the Godhead in the verse?
I'll help you
Jesus is God
and God(the Father) is his head
Godhead
Man and woman are not part of the God head
The Holy spirit is not mentioned
Peace In Jesus
Now you're just showing your - er, uhh, "donkey", Howard.
See there, you went forward w/o even answering the call to fellowship and prayer, and you went and lost your Head . I warned you, but you think you can do it all by yourself. So go ahead, without your Head.
Can a Good Tree bear bad fruit?
Do you not know that the Word of God is Living and Active, even discerning the the thoughts and intents of your heart?
You eat for knowledge, not for relationship. And you have reaped your just reward. Even your knowledge has corrupted you, separating you from your Brethren.
Nevertheless, by your poor choices God refined others further into His image.
Yes, God turns evil to good for them who truly love God and humble themselves, being obedient because they value relationship with God AND man more than they value mere knowledge of--.
Since you then know so much, please explain the difference between these phrases:
1. Jesus
2. Jesus Christ
3. Christ
4. Christ Jesus
5. The Lord and His Christ
6. LORD
7. Lord
Also, through the GodHead please show us the Spiritual fulfillment of the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant, and of course THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.
Then perhaps we might move on to how a "young man" overcomes SATAN.
So, as I said, YOU CHOOSE.
And feel free to go right on ahead, alone, since your... er... "Donkey" isn't even warning you of the peril ahead.
Now I shall return to His Flock who are soooooooo verrrrrrry Precious in His Sight.
you enjoy your self,
Mikey
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
Check this out mike
Jesus said his word is spirit lets read it again
John 6:63 (KJV)
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
If we continue in Jesus word as he said do, let's read it
John 8:31 (KJV)
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
If we continue in Jesus word(spirit) do that make us spiritual?
Was it God the Holy Ghost or God's word (Holy spirit)
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:32:58
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
I did show you, but having lost your Head; you're now Blind and Deaf, and as a result you are talking out of your - donkey.
That's all I have to say to you until you repent.
Mikey
Mike
Most Chrisitans don't know how to read God's word
Isaiah 28:9-11 (KJV)
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. [10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: [11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
This is why the Godhead is not known here becaus the scripture is not rightly divided
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
What makes up the Godhead?
God the Father is Jesus head
Jesus is God and he is the head of man
The Godhead is not taught in the churches
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:54:36
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:32:58
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
I did show you, but having lost your Head; you're now Blind and Deaf, and as a result you are talking out of your - donkey.
That's all I have to say to you until you repent.
Mikey
I Understand Brother
You don't know the answer
Psalm 55:21 (KJV)
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
Did God the HS show John the things to come or a angel?
Revelation 22:1-8 (KJV)
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4] And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
[6] And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:09:28
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:54:36
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:32:58
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
I did show you, but having lost your Head; you're now Blind and Deaf, and as a result you are talking out of your - donkey.
That's all I have to say to you until you repent.
Mikey
I Understand Brother
You don't know the answer
Psalm 55:21 (KJV)
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
"
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "
willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Did God the HS show John the things to come or a angel?
Revelation 22:1-8 (KJV)
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4] And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
[6] And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
: Man_Of_Honor Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:32:21
John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Who is this holy Spirit
Is he Jesus word
Is he the spirit in Jobs nostril
Is he thoughts of our mind
Who is he?
He exist yes
Is he God ?
If so show me
: Man_Of_Honor Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:32:21
John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Matthew 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
EXCELLENT Post!
That is the word of the Lord!
And I say amen!
Mikey
: fish153 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:24:42
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:09:28
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:54:36
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:32:58
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
I did show you, but having lost your Head; you're now Blind and Deaf, and as a result you are talking out of your - donkey.
That's all I have to say to you until you repent.
Mikey
I Understand Brother
You don't know the answer
Psalm 55:21 (KJV)
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
Fish
Where in that verse do it mention God the HS?
You are grasping!
: fish153 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:24:42
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
Excellent post of God's Word, Fish.
And what is
GOD'S Word which describes the Authority of God and His order for all things?
Remember, I said "
God's chosen Word" (who is Jesus Christ; the anointed Word of God), not man's carnal concept of God - God's revelation of Himself through His own Word?
God's Word begins with God's Title...
"G _ _ _ _ _ _"
Mikey
PS: Don't go "extrabiblical" on me now, remain IN God's Word!
What is God the Holy Ghost name?
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:43:39
: fish153 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:24:42
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
Excellent post of God's Word, Fish.
And what is GOD'S Word which describes the Authority of God and His order for all things?
Remember, I said "God's chosen Word" (who is Jesus Christ; the anointed Word of God), not man's carnal concept of God - God's revelation of Himself through His own Word?
God's Word begins with God's Title...
"G _ _ _ _ _ _"
Mikey
PS: Don't go "extrabiblical" on me now, remain IN God's Word!
Mike
James 1:8 (KJV)
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
: fish153 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:24:42
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:09:28
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:54:36
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:32:58
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
I did show you, but having lost your Head; you're now Blind and Deaf, and as a result you are talking out of your - donkey.
That's all I have to say to you until you repent.
Mikey
I Understand Brother
You don't know the answer
Psalm 55:21 (KJV)
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
Amen, brother! (http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup3.gif)
All I see here are posts that reveal a severe lack of understanding and the ability to understand God's word when read. I don't think there is a church that teaches what is presented here in this thread. The rubbish reveals we are dealing with a lone ranger type---which consistently pervert the word.
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:53:02
Mike
James 1:8 (KJV)
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
you would know... ::giggle::
couldn't resist. ::blushing::
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 19:01:21
: fish153 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:24:42
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:09:28
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:54:36
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 17:32:58
Mike
Respond to my post
I'm not impressed with yOur words
show me my error
You accuse me of a error
Show me
I did show you, but having lost your Head; you're now Blind and Deaf, and as a result you are talking out of your - donkey.
That's all I have to say to you until you repent.
Mikey
I Understand Brother
You don't know the answer
Psalm 55:21 (KJV)
The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
Amen, brother! (http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup3.gif)
All I see here are posts that reveal a severe lack of understanding and the ability to understand God's word when read. I don't think there is a church that teaches what is presented here in this thread. The rubbish reveals we are dealing with a lone ranger type---which consistently pervert the word.
And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
[a] or
comprehend, or
understandMikey
he who has ears, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Body
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:43:39
: fish153 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 18:24:42
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!" (Heb. 9:14)
Just one more of many verses which mention Father Son and Spirit in one sentence. But if one chooses to shut their eyes to all of the verses which have been shown they are being "willfully ignorant" which is truly a shame, and leads to dreadful consequences.
Excellent post of God's Word, Fish.
And what is GOD'S Word which describes the Authority of God and His order for all things?
Remember, I said "God's chosen Word" (who is Jesus Christ; the anointed Word of God), not man's carnal concept of God - God's revelation of Himself through His own Word?
God's Word begins with God's Title...
"G _ _ _ _ _ _"
Mikey
PS: Don't go "extrabiblical" on me now, remain IN God's Word!
Listen to the Apostle teaching
God's COMMANDS:
Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
Or did the word of God come from you? Or you only that it reached?
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. Paul is teaching you about the GodHead.
"GodHead" is God's Word, Respect God's Word, Exalt God's Word, Glorify God's Word!!!
Drop the carnal definition of man - it is a doctrine not of God.
The Doctrine Jesus Christ taught and still teaches is "The Godhead", the Doctrine of Christ, the Doctrine of "the Father and the Son".
Jesus Christ talked about the Godhead all the time. Didn't you
hear Him?
"The Son does nothing of Himself, but whatever the Father does, the Son does also".
For the Son loves the Father, and the Father loves the Son.
C'mon now, don't be just a believer (who believes any old thing men say, especially religiously minded men) but ABIDE IN God's Word and thereby become a Disciple of Christ, THEN you shall know the Truth, and then the Truth shall set you FREE!
Mikey
H ear, these will help (if you follow the Word and KNOW how to get them, and use them:
(http://images.clipartof.com/small/30956-Clipart-Illustration-Of-Two-Ears-Of-Corn-With-Green-Husks-And-A-Shadow.jpg)
Deuteronomy 15:17
then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear to the Door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also to your female servant you shall do likewise.
Matthew 13:23
But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
Mark 4:28
For the earth yields crops by itself: first the blade, then the head, after that the full grain in the head.
Where is your Faith?
Mikey
This is Worthy of being Repeated:
"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. "
Ahab's prophets were slain, but Elijah's Prophets proclaimed the Truth from their Housetops, even as Elijah commanded them by the Word of the LORD!
Now I'm Listening...
Mikey888
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:26:42
This is Worthy of being Repeated:
"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. "
Ahab's prophets were slain, but Elijah's Prophets proclaimed the Truth from their Housetops, even as Elijah commanded them by the Word of the LORD!
Now I'm Listening...
Mikey888
Well, boys and girls, where is your faith?
Is it IN Christ, or in man?
Let ME HEAR the Word of Lord from ALL you who claim to be Spiritual, or a Prophet!
And let ME HEAR IT TODAY.
Exodus 32:26
then Moses stood in the entrance of the camp, and said, "Whoever is on the LORD's side—come to me!" And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him.
seriously,
Mikey888
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:31:16
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:26:42
This is Worthy of being Repeated:
"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. "
Ahab's prophets were slain, but Elijah's Prophets proclaimed the Truth from their Housetops, even as Elijah commanded them by the Word of the LORD!
Now I'm Listening...
Mikey888
Well, boys and girls, where is your faith?
Is it IN Christ, or in man?
Let ME HEAR the Word of Lord from ALL you who claim to be Spiritual, or a Prophet!
And let ME HEAR IT TODAY.
Exodus 32:26
then Moses stood in the entrance of the camp, and said, "Whoever is on the LORD's side—come to me!" And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him.
seriously,
Mikey888
??? ::juggle::
::eatingpopcorn:
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Psalm 111:10 (KJV)
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments : his praise endureth for ever.
Psalm 119:34 (KJV)
Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Proverbs 2:6 (KJV)
For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
Jesus is the God that does this
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:44:26
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
well this I agree with...what's with all that other ranty kinda stuff? ::shrug::
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:31:16
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:26:42
This is Worthy of being Repeated:
"If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. "
Ahab's prophets were slain, but Elijah's Prophets proclaimed the Truth from their Housetops, even as Elijah commanded them by the Word of the LORD!
Now I'm Listening...
Mikey888
Well, boys and girls, where is your faith?
Is it IN Christ, or in man?
Let ME HEAR the Word of Lord from ALL you who claim to be Spiritual, or a Prophet!
And let ME HEAR IT TODAY.
Exodus 32:26
then Moses stood in the entrance of the camp, and said, "Whoever is on the LORD's side—come to me!" And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together to him.
seriously,
Mikey888
Where's God the Holy Spirit?
He's still missing!
A simple question that can't be answered
Where is the trinity?
The Son is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit comes in many forms.
Here is what's written about pride
Proverbs 6:16-20 (KJV)
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
If you don't know just admit you don't know
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:53:15
Where's God te Holy Spirit?
He's still missing!
A simple question that can't be answered
Where is the trinity?
The Son is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit comes in many forms.
Here is what's written about pride
Proverbs 6:16-20 (KJV)
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
If you don't know just admit you don't know
howard, how much longer is this going to go on? What is your goal here?
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Animated/popcornmuncher.gif)
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:55:09
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:53:15
Where's God te Holy Spirit?
He's still missing!
A simple question that can't be answered
Where is the trinity?
The Son is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit comes in many forms.
Here is what's written about pride
Proverbs 6:16-20 (KJV)
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
If you don't know just admit you don't know
howard, how much longer is this going to go on? What is your goal here?
Until its done
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:58:09
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:55:09
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:53:15
Where's God te Holy Spirit?
He's still missing!
A simple question that can't be answered
Where is the trinity?
The Son is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit comes in many forms.
Here is what's written about pride
Proverbs 6:16-20 (KJV)
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
If you don't know just admit you don't know
howard, how much longer is this going to go on? What is your goal here?
Until its done
Okaaaay...and when will that be? I mean what more can be said? You are just repeating the same thing over and over and it doesn't look like you've changed anyone's mind that believes in the Trinity...and no one is changing yours....so....?
Revelation 1:10 (KJV)
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
What spirit was John in?
Was it the God the HS ?
or what Spirit was he in?
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:59:40
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:58:09
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:55:09
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:53:15
Where's God te Holy Spirit?
He's still missing!
A simple question that can't be answered
Where is the trinity?
The Son is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit comes in many forms.
Here is what's written about pride
Proverbs 6:16-20 (KJV)
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
If you don't know just admit you don't know
howard, how much longer is this going to go on? What is your goal here?
Until its done
Okaaaay...and when will that be? I mean what more can be said? You are just repeating the same thing over and over and it doesn't look like you've changed anyone's mind that believes in the Trinity...and no one is changing yours....so....?
You are right
Why stop its a lot more verses I want to put, and if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:03:52
Revelation 1:10 (KJV)
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
What spirit was John in?
Was it the God the HS ?
or what Spirit was he in?
When we spend time with God and worship Him, and pray in the Spirit, sometimes a believer---like John---can be transported by Holy Spirit to the heavenly realm. That is where John would have received His experience with Jesus and been given his revelation.
That is what being in the Spirit means. Experiencing God deeply.
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:08:08
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:59:40
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:58:09
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:55:09
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:53:15
Where's God te Holy Spirit?
He's still missing!
A simple question that can't be answered
Where is the trinity?
The Son is God
The Father is God
The Holy Spirit comes in many forms.
Here is what's written about pride
Proverbs 6:16-20 (KJV)
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [20] My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
If you don't know just admit you don't know
howard, how much longer is this going to go on? What is your goal here?
Until its done
Okaaaay...and when will that be? I mean what more can be said? You are just repeating the same thing over and over and it doesn't look like you've changed anyone's mind that believes in the Trinity...and no one is changing yours....so....?
You are right
Why stop its a lot more verses I want to put, and if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
Not really. You have been answered by those of us who know what we are talking about, who experience the reality of Holy Spirit in our daily lives. You only have some faulty book learnin' to rely on.
Thank all of you who responded to the topic
Thank all of you who read the topic
Thank you Moderator and administrator for allowing this topic
Peace and blessing in Jesus mighty name
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:47:57
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:44:26
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
well this I agree with...what's with all that other ranty kinda stuff? ::shrug::
Then why do you lift up "the trinity" which is mans concept of God?
God's self revealing Word is "Godhead".
Why have you and all the "trinitarians" replaced God's Holy Word "Godhead" with mans concept of God "trinity"?
Why would anyone reject God's Word?
God's Word is Truth! GODHEAD
Mans word is a lie. "trinity".
So you, please explain why you have replaced God's own Word with mans.
Is it because you haven't truly believed God's Word, who is Jesus Christ?
Or is it because you just haven't received God's Word, who is Jesus Christ, the perfect image of our Father?
You tell me, "trinity" is your extra-biblical belief.
Mikey888
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:56:42
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Animated/popcornmuncher.gif)
My oh my, grandma, what a big mouth you have! ::giggle::
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:27:21
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:47:57
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:44:26
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
well this I agree with...what's with all that other ranty kinda stuff? ::shrug::
Then why do you lift up "the trinity" which is mans concept of God?
God's self revealing Word is "Godhead".
Why have you and all the "trinitarians" replaced God's Holy Word "Godhead" with mans concept of God "trinity"?
Why would anyone reject God's Word?
God's Word is Truth! GODHEAD
Mans word is a lie. "trinity".
So you, please explain why you have replaced God's own Word with mans.
Is it because you haven't truly believed God's Word, who is Jesus Christ?
Or is it because you just haven't received God's Word, who is Jesus Christ, the perfect image of our Father?
You tell me, "trinity" is your extra-biblical belief.
Mikey888
so...you agree with howard's take but you attack howard...I think you just like a good slapfest ::smacking:: and you think you have all the answers, but everybody else is wrong
::eatingpopcorn:
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:08:08
if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
No, that's not what I've noticed actually.
What I've noticed is people give you reasonable explanations and use God's word correctly, and you
then accuse them of using emotions to simply dismiss what they say.
You post all the scripture you want...you aren't proving anything away...just that you are confused. :(
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:40:29
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:27:21
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:47:57
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 21:44:26
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
well this I agree with...what's with all that other ranty kinda stuff? ::shrug::
Then why do you lift up "the trinity" which is mans concept of God?
God's self revealing Word is "Godhead".
Why have you and all the "trinitarians" replaced God's Holy Word "Godhead" with mans concept of God "trinity"?
Why would anyone reject God's Word?
God's Word is Truth! GODHEAD
Mans word is a lie. "trinity".
So you, please explain why you have replaced God's own Word with mans.
Is it because you haven't truly believed God's Word, who is Jesus Christ?
Or is it because you just haven't received God's Word, who is Jesus Christ, the perfect image of our Father?
You tell me, "trinity" is your extra-biblical belief.
Mikey888
so...you agree with howard's take but you attack howard...I think you just like a good slapfest ::smacking:: and you think you have all the answers, but everybody else is wrong
::eatingpopcorn:
But you didn't explain why you worship something that ISN'T God's Word, MeMyself.
Please explain.Mikey888
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason...
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:42:44
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:08:08
if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
No, that's not what I've noticed actually.
What I've noticed is people give you reasonable explanations and use God's word correctly, and you then accuse them of using emotions to simply dismiss what they say.
You post all the scripture you want...you aren't proving anything away...just that you are confused. :(
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup1-1.gif)
These guys who are rejecting Holy Spirit as part of who God is will get a rude awakening one Day, and not before they realize that they have no power within them to understand the deeper things of God from the word as others are receiving, no power in their lives against sickness and disease, and no power to bring the truth of the Gospel to someone so that he is miraculously saved, etc, etc, etc. Without the empowerment of Holy Spirit in their lives, they are just living in a religion.
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:03:15
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:42:44
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:08:08
if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
No, that's not what I've noticed actually.
What I've noticed is people give you reasonable explanations and use God's word correctly, and you then accuse them of using emotions to simply dismiss what they say.
You post all the scripture you want...you aren't proving anything away...just that you are confused. :(
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup1-1.gif)
These guys who are rejecting Holy Spirit as part of who God is will get a rude awakening one Day, and not before they realize that they have no power within them to understand the deeper things of God from the word as others are receiving, no power in their lives against sickness and disease, and no power to bring the truth of the Gospel to someone so that he is miraculously saved, etc, etc, etc. Without the empowerment of Holy Spirit in their lives, they are just living in a religion.
Spoken from the horses xxx mouth!
For indeed even Satan is transformed into an angel of light!
But LS cannot understand it!
Mikey
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand
IN the Promises of God
in Christ!Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:14:35
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:03:15
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:42:44
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:08:08
if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
No, that's not what I've noticed actually.
What I've noticed is people give you reasonable explanations and use God's word correctly, and you then accuse them of using emotions to simply dismiss what they say.
You post all the scripture you want...you aren't proving anything away...just that you are confused. :(
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup1-1.gif)
These guys who are rejecting Holy Spirit as part of who God is will get a rude awakening one Day, and not before they realize that they have no power within them to understand the deeper things of God from the word as others are receiving, no power in their lives against sickness and disease, and no power to bring the truth of the Gospel to someone so that he is miraculously saved, etc, etc, etc. Without the empowerment of Holy Spirit in their lives, they are just living in a religion.
Spoken from the horses xxx mouth!
For indeed even Satan is transformed into an angel of light!
But LS cannot understand it!
Mikey
Are you trying to cover up some evil speech there with your 'x''s? should I pay you any mind for speaking like that?
I don't have a problem with Satan trying to confuse me, because I have Holy Spirit living within me telling me what end is up.
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Nope. Do you realize you have used the word 'Godhead' more here than it is even used in scripture? Now try using 'Holy Spirit', who is one part of the Godhead.
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:40:57
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand IN the Promises of God in Christ!
Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
Yeah, thought so.
Just another cowardly religious person taking the Name of God in vain.
Matthew 15
Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
'These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition." and another witness against idolatry:
Mark 7
He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:52:28
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:14:35
: Lively Stone Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:03:15
: MeMyself Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:42:44
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 22:08:08
if you notice my questions my post are answered with emotions and not the word of God
No, that's not what I've noticed actually.
What I've noticed is people give you reasonable explanations and use God's word correctly, and you then accuse them of using emotions to simply dismiss what they say.
You post all the scripture you want...you aren't proving anything away...just that you are confused. :(
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Thumbs%20up%20and%20down/thumbsup1-1.gif)
These guys who are rejecting Holy Spirit as part of who God is will get a rude awakening one Day, and not before they realize that they have no power within them to understand the deeper things of God from the word as others are receiving, no power in their lives against sickness and disease, and no power to bring the truth of the Gospel to someone so that he is miraculously saved, etc, etc, etc. Without the empowerment of Holy Spirit in their lives, they are just living in a religion.
Spoken from the horses xxx mouth!
For indeed even Satan is transformed into an angel of light!
But LS cannot understand it!
Mikey
Are you trying to cover up some evil speech there with your 'x''s? should I pay you any mind for speaking like that?
I don't have a problem with Satan trying to confuse me, because I have Holy Spirit living within me telling me what end is up.
That's just your evil mind again.
I was referring to your triple X SIZED MOUTH which I previously pointed out to you; grandma.
It's like a Wolf's mouth, and everyone BUT YOU can see it.
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
Excellent, grace! We all know the important truth in that, but those who reject Holy Spirit as God are going to poo-poo it. All scripture that includes Him as part of who God is is simply sniffed at. It is a serious problem with spiritual blindness and no matter of any arguing can make them see. It's too bad, because the plain truth is in the living word for everyone to know---except those who stick their fingers in their ears. These persons need a miracle of intervention by the Spirit Himself, and that WILL NOT happen without people like us doing some spiritual warfare over this situation.
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:57:46
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:40:57
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand IN the Promises of God in Christ!
Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
Yeah, thought so.
Just another cowardly religious person taking the Name of God in vain.
Matthew 15
Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
'These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition."
and another witness against idolatry:
Mark 7
He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:40:57
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand IN the Promises of God in Christ!
Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
::hiding:: Do you believe in Dinasaurs?
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:14:36
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:57:46
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:40:57
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand IN the Promises of God in Christ!
Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
Yeah, thought so.
Just another cowardly religious person taking the Name of God in vain.
Matthew 15
Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
'These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition."
and another witness against idolatry:
Mark 7
He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...
wow! I had to leave my computer and came back to this! ::headscratch:: ::headscratch::
: grace Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:31:44
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:14:36
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:57:46
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:40:57
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand IN the Promises of God in Christ!
Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
Yeah, thought so.
Just another cowardly religious person taking the Name of God in vain.
Matthew 15
Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
'These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition."
and another witness against idolatry:
Mark 7
He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...
wow! I had to leave my computer and came back to this! ::headscratch:: ::headscratch::
AND YOU STILL DONT GET IT!!!
But you are about to get it,
The Lord takes idolatry very seriously.
The "trinity" is a commandment of man, it's not in the bible, so why do you believe and promote it?
Why don't you ALL promote and glorify God's Word, who teaches the Godhead?
: grace Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:29:06
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:40:57
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:37:31
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:34:31
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:32:22
: Mikey888 Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:28:35
: grace Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 23:20:42
Has the word "Elohim" been discussed on this thread?
"In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth."
This word is used 2,248 times in the Bible. Though the word "God" is singular in English, when the word Elohim is used in reference to the one, eternal God, it is one of the most incredible words you will ever find in scripture. A simple difinition of it is: a plural singularity. Yes, that is confusing: How can anything living be both plural and singular at the same time? Burt that is exactly what is being said: God is singular, yet plural in His existence.
In the very first verse of the very first book of the Bible! It is like he is saying..."Look, before we go any futher, I want you to know right here at the beginning that I exist in a way your mind simply cannot grasp: I am Elohim-One God and One God only, Who exists in a manner that you would call plural. Make no mistake about it; there is no other gods beside me, but I am a plural singularity in my existence."
And make no mistake about this either:
"trinity" is NOT God's Word.
GODHEAD is God's Word.
Did I mention trinity? ::angel::
You didn't mention Godhead either,
so clarify yourself.
Where ddo you stand, on the side of God
or on the side of man?
Or do you stand at all?
I stand on the word of God! ::tippinghat::
Yeah, I get the picture.
So, you to trample underfoot the Holy City, eh?
I stand IN the Promises of God in Christ!
Do you worship "the trinity" or the Godhead?
Stop evading and hiding in the shadows - answer the question.
::hiding:: Do you believe in Dinasaurs?
Dinosaurs?
See how you change the subject to evade the truth?
I understand why your hiding under your chair.
You don't know the Truth.
WOW
You have good reason to be afraid - you have been confronted with God's Word and you deny it.
Simple question:
Trinity opr Godhead.
You refuse to answer, and distract and evade, but God sees.
You will never escape accountability now.
I guess you do not believe in dinosaurs either! ::eatingpopcorn:
I accept the Bible as the FINAL word from God for all scripture, including the teachings about the trinity!
Not only in Gen. 1:1 does the Bible reveal the concept of God being a plural singularity...it is also confirmed in Genesis 1:26:
"Let US make"
Isaiah 6:8 .."Who shall go for US"...the one God as an "us" ::pondering::
Now we move to the New Testament...
The Greek word "Theos" is used in place of the Hevrew word "Elohim." The word "Theos" in and of itself appears to be singular, it was used in the plural tense. So the writers of the NT confirms the idea of God being a "plural singularity."
The importance of this cannot be understated; it means that people in both the Old and New Testaments who believed in God referred to Him as a "plural Being" (Trinity) whether or not a corresponding word for Trinity from their own language was used.
: grace Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:51:26
I guess you do not believe in dinosaurs either! ::eatingpopcorn:
I accept the Bible as the FINAL word from God for all scripture, including the teachings about the trinity!
Not only in Gen. 1:1 does the Bible reveal the concept of God being a plural singularity...it is also confirmed in Genesis 1:26:
"Let US make"
Isaiah 6:8 .."Who shall go for US"...the one God as an "us" ::pondering::
Now we move to the New Testament...
The Greek word "Theos" is used in place of the Hevrew word "Elohim." The word "Theos" in and of itself appears to be singular, it was used in the plural tense. So the writers of the NT confirms the idea of God being a "plural singularity."
The importance of this cannot be understated; it means that people in both the Old and New Testaments who believed in God referred to Him as a "plural Being" (Trinity) whether or not a corresponding word for Trinity from their own language was used.
Trinity is NOT in the bible.
It is not God's word.
God reveals Himself through His Word.
His Word is very precise, and His CHOSEN Word by which He reveals Himself is "Godhead".
Elohim is plural, yes, but it is distinctly TWO, no more no less.
God is the head of Christ.
Christ is the head of man.
Man is the head of woman.
Since Christ is the firstborn of the Creation of God, He is also the Preeminent One.
Are we in agreement so far?
It is a completely confused mind that considers worshiping God as idolatry. When Christians worship the Lord, they worship the entire Godhead. It is obvious that these fellows are not churched.
: howard Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 15:38:41
: bemark Thu Jul 26, 2012 - 02:22:09
: howard Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:36:53
: Man_Of_Honor Wed Jul 25, 2012 - 18:20:01
Matthew 12:31–32
31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
That holy spirit that is blasphemed and will not be forgiven is God's word
It is not God the holy spirit or the Holy spirit
So are you are saying that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is rejecting Gods word, in this case.So then according to you this would make the Holy Spirit Jesus as Jesus is the word of God made flesh.And Jesus is God.So then that would make The Holy Spirit God.
Bemark
Go back and reread what I put and next time quote all of it
OK howard is the Holy Spirit Gods word Yes or No?
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:02:00
: grace Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:51:26
I guess you do not believe in dinosaurs either! ::eatingpopcorn:
I accept the Bible as the FINAL word from God for all scripture, including the teachings about the trinity!
Not only in Gen. 1:1 does the Bible reveal the concept of God being a plural singularity...it is also confirmed in Genesis 1:26:
"Let US make"
Isaiah 6:8 .."Who shall go for US"...the one God as an "us" ::pondering::
Now we move to the New Testament...
The Greek word "Theos" is used in place of the Hevrew word "Elohim." The word "Theos" in and of itself appears to be singular, it was used in the plural tense. So the writers of the NT confirms the idea of God being a "plural singularity."
The importance of this cannot be understated; it means that people in both the Old and New Testaments who believed in God referred to Him as a "plural Being" (Trinity) whether or not a corresponding word for Trinity from their own language was used.
Trinity is NOT in the bible.
It is not God's word.
I agreed the word itself is not in the Bible..but is dinosaur in the Bible? ::giggle::
God reveals Himself through His Word.
His Word is very precise, and His CHOSEN Word by which He reveals Himself is "Godhead".
God has many names that describe Himself in the Bible! ... Elohim (god, or authority), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (highest), Avinu (our father), are not names but titles, highlighting different aspects of God and the various roles of God. Just to name a few ::whistle::
Elohim is plural, yes, but it is distinctly TWO, no more no less.
This I do not agree! How many heavens are there?
God is the head of Christ.
Christ is the head of man.
Man is the head of woman.
this I agree!
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:19:21
It is a completely confused mind that considers worshiping God as idolatry. When Christians worship the Lord, they worship the entire Godhead. It is obvious that these fellows are not churched.
I worship God.
I serve the King of kings; my Lord Jesus Christ.
I abide in Christ.
You worship a "trinity" and the "trinity" is the commandment of men, making the Godhead "of none effect" even as Jesus said.
If you worshiped as God commands, you would shut your big MOUTH WOMAN. Instead you rush in like a fool where angels wouldn't dare go!
Those chains of Darkness have you bound so tight because every time you mock me, they get tighter. Keep pushing a bad position and SEE where that gets you.
M
: grace Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:26:29
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:02:00
: grace Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 00:51:26
I guess you do not believe in dinosaurs either! ::eatingpopcorn:
I accept the Bible as the FINAL word from God for all scripture, including the teachings about the trinity!
Not only in Gen. 1:1 does the Bible reveal the concept of God being a plural singularity...it is also confirmed in Genesis 1:26:
"Let US make"
Isaiah 6:8 .."Who shall go for US"...the one God as an "us" ::pondering::
Now we move to the New Testament...
The Greek word "Theos" is used in place of the Hevrew word "Elohim." The word "Theos" in and of itself appears to be singular, it was used in the plural tense. So the writers of the NT confirms the idea of God being a "plural singularity."
The importance of this cannot be understated; it means that people in both the Old and New Testaments who believed in God referred to Him as a "plural Being" (Trinity) whether or not a corresponding word for Trinity from their own language was used.
Trinity is NOT in the bible.
It is not God's word.
I agreed the word itself is not in the Bible..but is dinosaur in the Bible? ::giggle::
God reveals Himself through His Word.
His Word is very precise, and His CHOSEN Word by which He reveals Himself is "Godhead".
God has many names that describe Himself in the Bible! ... Elohim (god, or authority), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (highest), Avinu (our father), are not names but titles, highlighting different aspects of God and the various roles of God. Just to name a few ::whistle::
Elohim is plural, yes, but it is distinctly TWO, no more no less.
This I do not agree! How many heavens are there?
God is the head of Christ.
Christ is the head of man.
Man is the head of woman.
this I agree!
OK I'll meet you where you are, as long as you are honest with me and stop playing games.
What do Dinosaurs have to with God making Man in His image? Nothing.
So let's not get caught up in the things of the world that do not pertain to life and Godliness - fair enough?
Can you also see these truths in Scripture:
Christ came forth from the Father
and just like that...
Eve came forth from Adam.
Jesus Christ; the same, yesterday today and forever.
He does things the same way, over and over again.
That is part of His
signature.He who is, was, and always shall be... the SAME.
The Word of God is Eternal.
do you agree?
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:27:15
I worship God.
I serve the King of kings; my Lord Jesus Christ.
I abide in Christ.
You need to speak with more respect, and show that you are a worthy debater.
Have you experienced the baptism of Holy Spirit, or have you refused that?
You worship a "trinity" and the "trinity" is the commandment of men, making the Godhead "of none effect" even as Jesus said.
There is no commandment of men concerning worshiping God. It is His command.
Those chains of Darkness have you bound so tight because every time you mock me, they get tighter. Keep pushing a bad position and SEE where that gets you.
Nobody's mocking you. You are being corrected but you refuse. Each time you refuse you will be reminded when you stand before the Father how many times you spurned His truth, and the countless opportunities He has been giving you to know Him better.
Do you belong to a church, or have you forsaken that commandment?
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:34:53
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:27:15
I worship God.
I serve the King of kings; my Lord Jesus Christ.
I abide in Christ.
You need to speak with more respect, and show that you are a worthy debater.
Have you experienced the baptism of Holy Spirit, or have you refused that?
You worship a "trinity" and the "trinity" is the commandment of men, making the Godhead "of none effect" even as Jesus said.
There is no commandment of men concerning worshiping God. It is His command.
Those chains of Darkness have you bound so tight because every time you mock me, they get tighter. Keep pushing a bad position and SEE where that gets you.
Nobody's mocking you. You are being corrected but you refuse. Each time you refuse you will be reminded when you stand before the Father how many times you spurned His truth, and the countless opportunities He has been giving you to know Him better.
Do you belong to a church, or have you forsaken that commandment?
Those words you just spoke are binding on YOU alone.
You will answer to the LORD for them, and every idle word and mocking word you have spoken today.
You want respect? Act respectfully.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
People who worship a "trinity" aren't finding
that in the Bible.
They are looking at a man-made idol, a false image of God.
Those who receive God's word worship God according to His Word, which is Godhead.
There is nothing alike between the "trinity" doctrine and the Doctrine of Christ which is the Godhead.
That's why Jesus said "in vain do you worship Me, teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men."
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:42:00
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:34:53
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:27:15
I worship God.
I serve the King of kings; my Lord Jesus Christ.
I abide in Christ.
You need to speak with more respect, and show that you are a worthy debater.
Have you experienced the baptism of Holy Spirit, or have you refused that?
You worship a "trinity" and the "trinity" is the commandment of men, making the Godhead "of none effect" even as Jesus said.
There is no commandment of men concerning worshiping God. It is His command.
Those chains of Darkness have you bound so tight because every time you mock me, they get tighter. Keep pushing a bad position and SEE where that gets you.
Nobody's mocking you. You are being corrected but you refuse. Each time you refuse you will be reminded when you stand before the Father how many times you spurned His truth, and the countless opportunities He has been giving you to know Him better.
Do you belong to a church, or have you forsaken that commandment?
Those words you just spoke are binding on YOU alone.
You will answer to the LORD for them, and every idle word and mocking word you have spoken today.
You want respect? Act respectfully.
I haven't said anything I am ashamed of, but you need to speak with respect, and stop giving vent to your own uncontrollable emotions.
I stand on the words I have ever said. They are the truth. I know Holy Spirit. He lives in me. Please answer my question---
Have you experienced the baptism in the Holy Spirit?Who do you think Holy Spirit is? He comes to dwell inside every believer. If He isn't God indwelling us, why do you think God would allow any other Spirit but His own to live in His children?
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:58:38
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
People who worship a "trinity" aren't finding that in the Bible.
They are looking at a man-made idol, a false image of God.
Those who receive God's word worship God according to His Word, which is Godhead.
There is nothing alike between the "trinity" doctrine and the Doctrine of Christ which is the Godhead.
That's why Jesus said "in vain do you worship Me, teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men."
That's false. When a believer studies the word of God, he comes to the understanding that God is Three. The word, 'trinity' is just a word. It isn't a doctrine---it is a WORD that describes God and who He is and how He presents Himself to the world.
You are just hiding behind your own silly phrases, such as 'commandments of men'---where there is no commandment---and saying silly things like our worship is in vain, when a true believer cannot truly worship God if not in Spirit and in truth.
John 4:23But the time is coming—indeed it's here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.
John 4:24For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."
You can't take His spirit out of God. He will not stand for it.
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
::amen!::
Thank you, Lord for your beautiful Holy Spirit, who comes to live inside every believer to teach us and to empower us to do the works of Christ! It is because of Holy Spirit that I can love you and receive your love and even call you Lord!
Romans 8:10-11
And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been made right with God.
The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 02:11:42
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:58:38
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
People who worship a "trinity" aren't finding that in the Bible.
They are looking at a man-made idol, a false image of God.
Those who receive God's word worship God according to His Word, which is Godhead.
There is nothing alike between the "trinity" doctrine and the Doctrine of Christ which is the Godhead.
That's why Jesus said "in vain do you worship Me, teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men."
That's false. When a believer studies the word of God, he comes to the understanding that God is Three. The word, 'trinity' is just a word. It isn't a doctrine---it is a WORD that describes God and who He is and how He presents Himself to the world.
You are just hiding behind your own silly phrases, such as 'commandments of men'---where there is no commandment---and saying silly things like our worship is in vain, when a true believer cannot truly worship God if not in Spirit and in truth.
John 4:23
But the time is coming—indeed it's here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.
John 4:24
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."
You can't take His spirit out of God. He will not stand for it.
"The trinity isn't a doctrine?" Wow! Where have you been? It's been practiced as a mandatory doctrine in the church for almost 2000 years!
As for thew Holy Spirit, I have NEVER denied the Holy Spirit. You tell lies about me.
Now stop your false accusations.
I DO worship God in Spirit and in Truth - you don't even know God's word, much less the Spirit of Life.
Why don't you go study the commands of God like Paul said, and then shut your big mouth like Paul said too. Woman. Don't you understand New Testament Doctrine from the Bible? Maybe you should study that, then you might just find the approval of God, instead of parading yourself around here for slaps on the back.
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:58:38
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
People who worship a "trinity" aren't finding that in the Bible.
They are looking at a man-made idol, a false image of God.
Those who receive God's word worship God according to His Word, which is Godhead.
There is nothing alike between the "trinity" doctrine and the Doctrine of Christ which is the Godhead.
That's why Jesus said "in vain do you worship Me, teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men."
It says "Now the Lord is the Spirit" and by the "Spirit of the Lord"
Now we are changed by what is in front of us so please don't say a angel
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 02:24:24
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 02:11:42
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:58:38
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
People who worship a "trinity" aren't finding that in the Bible.
They are looking at a man-made idol, a false image of God.
Those who receive God's word worship God according to His Word, which is Godhead.
There is nothing alike between the "trinity" doctrine and the Doctrine of Christ which is the Godhead.
That's why Jesus said "in vain do you worship Me, teaching as Doctrine the commandments of men."
That's false. When a believer studies the word of God, he comes to the understanding that God is Three. The word, 'trinity' is just a word. It isn't a doctrine---it is a WORD that describes God and who He is and how He presents Himself to the world.
You are just hiding behind your own silly phrases, such as 'commandments of men'---where there is no commandment---and saying silly things like our worship is in vain, when a true believer cannot truly worship God if not in Spirit and in truth.
John 4:23
But the time is coming—indeed it's here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.
John 4:24
For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth."
You can't take His spirit out of God. He will not stand for it.
"The trinity isn't a doctrine?" Wow! Where have you been? It's been practiced as a mandatory doctrine in the church for almost 2000 years!
If that is true, what makes you, now 2000 years later so much more attuned to the truth that you can toss it aside? What is your church?
As for thew Holy Spirit, I have NEVER denied the Holy Spirit. You tell lies about me.
Now stop your false accusations.
I DO worship God in Spirit and in Truth - you don't even know God's word, much less the Spirit of Life.
Do you deny that Holy Spirit is God? If so, you deny Him His rightful place, and you grieve Him.
Why don't you go study the commands of God like Paul said, and then shut your big mouth like Paul said too. Woman. Don't you understand New Testament Doctrine from the Bible? Maybe you should study that, then you might just find the approval of God, instead of parading yourself around here for slaps on the back.
Don't you speak to me in that insulting and sexist way, kid. You cannot order me around with that false and evil notion that women are to be quiet. I love Paul and my Paul didn't say anything like that.
What church are you a part of?
Personally, all I see is you in a parade of one.
Mikey888 who is the Holy Spirit and how do you relate with Him?I am talking about your personal relationship with the Spirit of God.
As far as I am concerned, further participation in this thread is just...
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Debate/beating-a-dead-horse.gif)
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 02:15:20
: bemark Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:52:00
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
::amen!::
Thank you, Lord for your beautiful Holy Spirit, who comes to live inside every believer to teach us and to empower us to do the works of Christ! It is because of Holy Spirit that I can love you and receive your love and even call you Lord!
I know by word and by Spirit you have encountered Him.Joy in the (Holy Ghost) Lord around you. rofl
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 02:45:08
Since there are two accusers here now, why don't you stand side by side and pat each others back, have your own little circle jerk, as usual.
You're not worthy of the time.
And just for the LOUD MOUTHED WOMAN:
1 Timothy 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
Put that in your study notes, it's PAUL'S!
Good thing Paul didn't mean what you mean!
Learn some manners. Now why won't you answer what church you belong to? What church teaches you these things you believe?
: Mikey888 Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:27:15
: Lively Stone Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 01:19:21
It is a completely confused mind that considers worshiping God as idolatry. When Christians worship the Lord, they worship the entire Godhead. It is obvious that these fellows are not churched.
I worship God.
I serve the King of kings; my Lord Jesus Christ.
I abide in Christ.
You worship a "trinity" and the "trinity" is the commandment of men, making the Godhead "of none effect" even as Jesus said.
If you worshiped as God commands, you would shut your big MOUTH WOMAN. Instead you rush in like a fool where angels wouldn't dare go!
Those chains of Darkness have you bound so tight because every time you mock me, they get tighter. Keep pushing a bad position and SEE where that gets you.
M
I dont worhsip a trinity. I worship God through Jesus with the Holy Spirit who is in me. Just a simple question. Why do you say that The Holy Spirit is? We have a member her who says that The Holy Spirit is The angel gabriel. How about you?
Mikey
Women here on this forum are allowed to have equal membership and have as much right as men to say what they believe. If you cant accept that then please leave.
I am locking this thread.