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John 4:23 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth[/b], for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit? There are 2 requirements mentioned in this verse, spirit and truth, God is spirit and as worshipers we must be in Spirit and Truth.

Hi Bitter Sweet,

You asked:

: Bitter Sweet  Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 06:02:48

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit?

We worship the Father (who is indeed a Spirit) through Jesus Christ. But we do not see anyone in the Bible worshipping a distinct being called "The Spirit."

Here's my two cents on the verse you quoted:

Worshipping the Father in spirit is about what is taking place in the inner man, as opposed to in a certain location. One is religion, the other relationship.

The woman at the well asked Jesus where the proper place was to worship God:

Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus answered her that the time had come when those who truly worshipped the Father would not need a place, for the earthly Jerusalem would soon see it's end as the old covenant which was waxing old was ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

God was doing a new thing in the earth... writing His laws on the heart and in the mind. Heavenly Jerusalem was coming down, the new covenant was being established.

Worshipping the Father in truth means in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus (Eph 4:21), for no one comes to the Father but by Him and unless His words abide in us we have no life in us. (John 6:53,63)

The Father is seeking those who will worship Him from the heart (as a way of life) and according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. These are those which the Lord writes on the tablets of flesh (2 Cor 3:3) and are fulfilled in one word... LOVE. (Romans 13:8)




Hope this makes some sense.  ::smile::

: raggthyme76  Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 22:10:44
Hi Bitter Sweet,

Here's my two cents:

Worshipping the Father in spirit is about what is taking place in the inner man, as opposed to in a certain location. One is religion, the other relationship.

The woman at the well asked Jesus where the proper place was to worship God:

Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus answered her that the time had come when those who truly worshipped the Father would not need a place, for the earthly Jerusalem would soon see it's end as the old covenant which was waxing old was ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

God was doing a new thing in the earth... writing His law on the heart. Heavenly Jerusalem was coming down, the new covenant was being established.

Worshipping the Father in truth means in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus (Eph 4:21), for no one comes to the Father but by Him and unless His words abide in us we have no life in us. (John 6:53,63)

The Father is seeking those who will worship Him from the heart (as a way of life) and according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. These are those which the Lord writes on the tablets of flesh (2 Cor 3:3) and are fulfilled in one word... LOVE. (Romans 13:8)

Wow!  Nailed it, Raggy.

Very good post raggthyme !

The next point would be to define ' LOVE' !

' Human love' and ' God's love ' are apparently ' not the same'....so...

WHOS'e kind of love do we express when worshipping God ???

Has GOD got HIS OWN set of STANDARDS of HOW HE wants to be worshipped ...

or do we worship Him any way that seems right to a man ???

If we are believers we have the Holy Spirit in us,and we worship God through Jesus with the Spirit.

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 02:59:33
Very good post raggthyme !

The next point would be to define ' LOVE' !

' Human love' and ' God's love ' are apparently ' not the same'....so...

WHOS'e kind of love do we express when worshipping God ???

Has GOD got HIS OWN set of STANDARDS of HOW HE wants to be worshipped ...

or do we worship Him any way that seems right to a man ???

I agree, I am really glad I asked this question, opened up a can of love!

TY Raggthyme!

: Bitter Sweet  Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 06:02:48
John 4:23 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth[/b], for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit? There are 2 requirements mentioned in this verse, spirit and truth, God is spirit and as worshipers we must be in Spirit and Truth.

both have to do with Jesus words that he has spoken to us

John 8:31
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Jesus words are spirit and Holy


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus who is God and who is a Spirit got the words from The Father who is God and who is a Spirit

Revelation 1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

we know God is a spirit and God the Father is the Father of Spirits

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

man is not a spirit, we are flesh, we have to worship the Lord by using this form of the spirit and that is his word

How?

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

the word is also called spirit

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus sheep hear his words(voice) if we hear Jesus voice we then hear the Father

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

what comes from the Lord's voice(words)

I know you understand this but I have to make it simple for the babes on the forum

: raggthyme76  Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 22:10:44
Hi Bitter Sweet,

You asked:

: Bitter Sweet  Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 06:02:48

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit?

We worship the Father (who is indeed a Spirit) through Jesus Christ. But we do not see anyone in the Bible worshipping a distinct being called "The Spirit."

Here's my two cents on the verse you quoted:

Worshipping the Father in spirit is about what is taking place in the inner man, as opposed to in a certain location. One is religion, the other relationship.

The woman at the well asked Jesus where the proper place was to worship God:

Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus answered her that the time had come when those who truly worshipped the Father would not need a place, for the earthly Jerusalem would soon see it's end as the old covenant which was waxing old was ready to vanish away. (Heb 8:13)

God was doing a new thing in the earth... writing His laws on the heart and in the mind. Heavenly Jerusalem was coming down, the new covenant was being established.

Worshipping the Father in truth means in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus (Eph 4:21), for no one comes to the Father but by Him and unless His words abide in us we have no life in us. (John 6:53,63)

The Father is seeking those who will worship Him from the heart (as a way of life) and according to the commandments of Jesus Christ. These are those which the Lord writes on the tablets of flesh (2 Cor 3:3) and are fulfilled in one word... LOVE. (Romans 13:8)




Hope this makes some sense.  ::smile::

Amen Sister ::clappingoverhead::

We worship the Father (who is indeed a Spirit) through Jesus Christ. But we do not see anyone in the Bible worshipping a distinct being called "The Spirit."

Not one person!!! Not One!!!

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Jesus testimony is the SPIRIT of prophecy.

I guarantee you that certain people don't have a clue what this is

some even dare to think that the Holy Spirit started in the OT not understanding that the NT even Paul told us that the circumcised who are the Israelites worshipped God in spirit even in the OT

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

How is this done? by obeying the word which is spirit

: howard  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 06:43:51
I know you understand this but I have to make it simple for the babes on the forum

TY Howard, I was hoping you will be involved in this discussion.

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 02:59:33
Very good post raggthyme !

The next point would be to define ' LOVE' !

' Human love' and ' God's love ' are apparently ' not the same'....so...

WHOS'e kind of love do we express when worshipping God ???

Has GOD got HIS OWN set of STANDARDS of HOW HE wants to be worshipped ...

or do we worship Him any way that seems right to a man ???

its not hard if we read his spirit(word)

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God's word tells us what to do and how to live

1 Corinthians 14:25
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.


God truth is is us?

what is truth?

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

God's words is in us

the spirit is truth as Jesus said

1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth

Jesus said the spirit is word

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus words are
Spirit
truth
life
prophecy

: Bitter Sweet  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 06:53:47

: howard  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 06:43:51
I know you understand this but I have to make it simple for the babes on the forum

TY Howard, I was hoping you will be involved in this discussion.

::applause:: good job

in only shows how God wants us to show the people through his word the many forms and functions of the word spirit in the bible

i was thinking the same thing concerning my next topic

Numbers 16:22
And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?


what is the spirits of all flesh?

headed to bible class

Great responses so far,

I can't wait to hear the other sides theory

God words are spirit

God spirit dwells in us

the New Covenant dwells in our inward parts

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

How?

God put his Word/Spirit in our inward parts, this is how we know the Lord

   what are the inward parts the Lord speak of?

our minds/brain.

: Bitter Sweet  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 05:58:06
opened up a can of love!

haha, I like that! And I fully agree with Beta, it's definitely God's love as defined by the word. It's His love which is written on the heart of the believer in Jesus. Man's idea of love is really self-love, definitely the opposite of agape.

I believe we worship in spirit and in truth when we remember worship is doing everything for the glory of God.

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

Exactly Beta! Everyone forget's it's not all about us, it's all about HIM! There is no I in T.E.A.M!

 Bitter Sweet,

You titled this thread "Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?"

Do you mean by the first mention of spirit, the third person of the trinity, or do you mean the Father, who is a Spirit?

Just curious, I find this topic fascinating!

: raggthyme76  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:31:51
Bitter Sweet,

You titled this thread "Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?"

Do you mean by the first mention of spirit, the third person of the trinity, or do you mean the Father, who is a Spirit?

Just curious, I find this topic fascinating!

I love it when we all know what we are thinking and talking about! Not only are we on the same page, we are reading the same book! I was talking about the third person of the trinity, I don't think there is any other spirit worshiped.

: Bitter Sweet  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 14:05:15

: raggthyme76  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:31:51
Bitter Sweet,

You titled this thread "Do you worship the spirit or in the spirit?"

Do you mean by the first mention of spirit, the third person of the trinity, or do you mean the Father, who is a Spirit?

Just curious, I find this topic fascinating!

I love it when we all know what we are thinking and talking about! Not only are we on the same page, we are reading the same book! I was talking about the third person of the trinity, I don't think there is any other spirit worshiped.

Ok, thanks. That's what I thought you were asking. I like to have people define the terms, helps in the communication process.  ::smile::

For me, I do not worship a third person of a trinity, as I do not believe God is a trinity. So if I split up your topic question to read:

Do you worship (a) the spirit/third person of the trinity or (b) in the spirit? I would personally say (b) for sure. I believe Jesus was speaking in John 4 about worshipping the Father in the inner man, as opposed to a specific location.

I hope that came across clearly in my original post.

I mean no offense to those who believe otherwise, I think God is more concerned with the heart of the worshipper than with his intellect. Everyone is growing and learning and (hopefully) weeding out what is not biblical doctrine. We're all in different places in our walk.

I like these forums because I think being challenged with Scripture to consider what we believe makes us dig in deeper and with a humble and teachable heart, it's a very good thing. It only becomes unprofitable when pride and stubbornness are involved, when a person is unwilling to examine themselves (and their sincerely-held beliefs) with the word of God.

I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical.  ::frown::

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:25:41
I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical.  ::frown::

How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

Yes, the trinity is biblical.

John 16:7; 14:16; 15:26

How are we to account for the "sending" spoken of in these verses?  Can you "send" yourself.... or can the son override the father's authority, and "send" him?

And doesn't one of these verses speak of "sending ANOTHER"?

Just as the Bible says "There is one God"... and yet Jesus says he and the father are one, I see no problem with three parts of one being..... just as Jesus is a second part of that One God.  Yet I do see them as individual in purpose and function.

I see the Holy Spirit much like the influence your impressions and memory and respect for your own earthly father have on your thoughts, concionous, and conscious actions.  He's one person, but that part of him lives inside you.......... certainly with nowhere the power of the Holy Spirit, but similarly.

When one goes off to war, a father (or even a lover) often says "I will be right there beside you".  We know that is not physically possible... but when we are facing those horrid times, and his face or voice breaks in and holds us up... we also KNOW he's there with us.

In case this is more confusing than I intended, "Yes" I do believe in the Trinity.

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:07:43

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:25:41
I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical.  ::frown::

I am right next to you on this!

Who is the spirit in the trinity being worshiped?

: MeMyself  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:41:01

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:07:43

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 20:02:32

: MeMyself  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:41:01

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:07:43

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

are you being a busy body, Beta? ::pokingwithstick::  ::giggle:: Just funnin' ya.  ::wink::

I am paying attention to it and I understand it.  Whatever we do, it is to be done to glorify the Lord.

: MeMyself  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 20:06:15

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 20:02:32

: MeMyself  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:41:01

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:07:43

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

are you being a busy body, Beta? ::pokingwithstick::  ::giggle:: Just funnin' ya.  ::wink::

I am paying attention to it and I understand it.  Whatever we do, it is to be done to glorify the Lord.

Still comes down to the same thing....
whatever WE do.....
or what GOD wants done !!!!

We either please ourself or we please God !
And what is Paul's conclusion in 1Cor.11v1 ?

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 20:33:31

: MeMyself  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 20:06:15

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 20:02:32

: MeMyself  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:41:01

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 13:07:43

TRUE Worship  is when we do it the way GOD wants it done....

not any way we choose to do it !

God's way...right here

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

You are not paying attention to the ' or WHATEVER YOU DO' ....are you ?

are you being a busy body, Beta? ::pokingwithstick::  ::giggle:: Just funnin' ya.  ::wink::

I am paying attention to it and I understand it.  Whatever we do, it is to be done to glorify the Lord.

Still comes down to the same thing....
whatever WE do.....
or what GOD wants done !!!!

We either please ourself or we please God !
And what is Paul's conclusion in 1Cor.11v1 ?

What?  It is pleasing to please the Father!  To imply otherwise is just beyond bizarre to me!  ::juggle::

We feel good about pleasing those we love...and that's not a bad thing! I deny self all.the.time for the people I love and I do it happily for God too.  Sometimes I wish He would be pleased with me judging others, or digging the specks out of their eyes, but I know its best to deny my own desires to do so and work on my own 400 lb plank. Though it is harder some times than others...I'm always so glad I obey Him, deny myself and offer grace..because it glorifies Him. ::clappingoverhead:: 

God wants us to do everything for.His.glory. period.  ::smile::

: Willie T  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:35:31

In case this is more confusing than I intended, "Yes" I do believe in the Trinity.

::smile:: It was a bit over my head, but I did get that much out of it...

: Lively Stone
How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

Well, since I seem to recall the word "spirit" here is pnuma (wind, more or less), I'd say that's an answer to the woman's question.... We worship anywhere... wherever we are.

: raggthyme76  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 21:04:46

: Lively Stone
How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

Check this out, and maybe BS will explain later:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/do-you-worship-the-spirit-or-in-the-spirit/msg1054730494/#msg1054730494 (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/do-you-worship-the-spirit-or-in-the-spirit/msg1054730494/#msg1054730494)

: Lively Stone  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 23:28:34

: raggthyme76  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 21:04:46

: Lively Stone
How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

Check this out, and maybe BS will explain later:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/do-you-worship-the-spirit-or-in-the-spirit/msg1054730494/#msg1054730494 (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/non-traditional-theology/do-you-worship-the-spirit-or-in-the-spirit/msg1054730494/#msg1054730494)

ok yes, I can see where it might be a little confusing. I was going off of the comment made to Beta right after that...

: Bitter Sweet  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:44:16

: Beta  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 19:25:41
I like both your posts 'raggthyme and Bitter Sweet' !

I think we are all finally coming to a better understanding of our Almighty God and His Son....

who are TWO yet are ONE in SPIRIT Joh.10v30. There is not 'another' who is spirit.
Scripture does not say that 3 are one...so a 'trinity is not biblical.  ::frown::

I am right next to you on this!

Who is the spirit in the trinity being worshiped?

I could totally be misunderstanding this.. I guess we'll have to let her speak for herself.  ::smile::

: raggthyme76  Sat Jul 28, 2012 - 21:04:46

: Lively Stone
How do you account for BS"s talking about the third person of the trinity? She seems to have finally accepted this truth.

I think Bitter Sweet was asking whether a person worships the spirit (as the third of the trinity) or in the spirit and what exactly that means.

It appears that BS does not adhere to the trinity doctrine. If I'm wrong BS, please correct me!

You are absolutely correct I do not believe in man made doctrines and I especially don't believe in adding anything to the bible!

For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

I may well have missed it, but I don't think a single person here has said they worship the Holy Spirit. 

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:16:45


You are absolutely correct I do not believe in man made doctrines and I especially don't believe in adding anything to the bible!

Didn't you say your husband "Looks like Jesus"?  One of your "proofs" that he is your "reward"?

Well, that is totally man-made.  No one on Earth knows what Jesus looks  (or looked) like.

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

We worship God the Father, through Jesus the Son, with The Holy Spirit who is in us.  The Father the Son and The Holy Spirit. Three in one.The Holy Spirit is God IN us, and is, among other things, our helper.

: chosenone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 08:17:50

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

We worship God the Father, through Jesus the Son, with The Holy Spirit who is in us.  The Father the Son and The Holy Spirit. Three in one.The Holy Spirit is God IN us, and is, among other things, our helper.

Right. those who denigrate Holy Spirit by non-acceptance of who He is---well, how can they know Him?

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:50:05

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

I may well have missed it, but I don't think a single person here has said they worship the Holy Spirit. 

If God is a trinity and you worship God (3 in 1), you worship this trinity, and if the Holy Spirit is the third person of this trinity, then you must worship the Holy Spirit.

Where is this logic flawed?

: raggthyme76  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:20:10

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:50:05

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

I may well have missed it, but I don't think a single person here has said they worship the Holy Spirit. 

If God is a trinity and you worship God (3 in 1), you worship this trinity, and if the Holy Spirit is the third person of this trinity, then you must worship the Holy Spirit.

Where is this logic flawed?

No more flawed than this:

God is perfect.  Therefore if you worship (honor, adore, glorify) God, you are worshiping perfection.  The same can be said of any of the attritubutes of God the Bible speaks of... love, truth, mercy, grace, longsuffering, compassion, etc.... and on and on.

Sorry, your silliness is contagious... I got carried away with it.

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:33:25

: raggthyme76  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:20:10

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:50:05

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

I may well have missed it, but I don't think a single person here has said they worship the Holy Spirit. 

If God is a trinity and you worship God (3 in 1), you worship this trinity, and if the Holy Spirit is the third person of this trinity, then you must worship the Holy Spirit.

Where is this logic flawed?

No more flawed than this:

God is perfect.  Therefore if you worship (honor, adore, glorify) God, you are worshiping perfection.  The same can be said of any of the attritubutes of God the Bible speaks of... love, truth, mercy, grace, longsuffering, compassion, etc.... and on and on.

Sorry, your silliness is contagious... I got carried away with it.

What's so silly about God being 3 in 1, to a trinitarian nonetheless? If God is 3 in 1 don't you worship God as such? Or do you only worship parts of Him?

If you are somehow implying that the Holy Spirit is an attribute of God, then you are not truly a trinitarian, friend.

From a true trinitarian:

Let us study reverently the following hymn of Reginald Heber, who was inspired
  by this seraphic praise...

  "Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty!
  Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
  Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty!
  God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!

  Holy, Holy, Holy! All the saints adore Thee,
  Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
  Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
  Which wert, and art, and evermore shalt be."

   True Worship: 
  God dwelling eternally as One God in three Persons has inspired awe and wonder in the hearts of man, enlightening ,enriching and elevating his view of Almighty God. It is the Light of Truth which has provoked worship and adoration to the Blessed Trinity.

  This worship entails worship of the Godhead as Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Spirit). It is their own divine position as clearly demonstrated through the Old and New Testament that these three are God in distinction of Persons.......
   
     ● Our Christian faith is in One God existing in three distinct Persons.   
    ● We worship God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Do you think this person worships the Holy Spirit?

: raggthyme76  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:36:38

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:33:25

: raggthyme76  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:20:10

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:50:05

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

I may well have missed it, but I don't think a single person here has said they worship the Holy Spirit. 

If God is a trinity and you worship God (3 in 1), you worship this trinity, and if the Holy Spirit is the third person of this trinity, then you must worship the Holy Spirit.

Where is this logic flawed?

No more flawed than this:

God is perfect.  Therefore if you worship (honor, adore, glorify) God, you are worshiping perfection.  The same can be said of any of the attritubutes of God the Bible speaks of... love, truth, mercy, grace, longsuffering, compassion, etc.... and on and on.

Sorry, your silliness is contagious... I got carried away with it.

What's so silly about God being 3 in 1, to a trinitarian nonetheless? If God is 3 in 1 don't you worship God as such? Or do you only worship parts of Him?

If you are somehow implying that the Holy Spirit is an attribute of God, then you are not truly a trinitarian, friend.

Well, I'm just human.  If you can read the short chapter of Genesis 1, and not see clearly, God and his Spirit (a Holy Spirit, by the way), then I guess you'll have to remain in denial till God gets your attention some other way.

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:56:39

: raggthyme76  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:36:38

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:33:25

: raggthyme76  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:20:10

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:50:05

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 06:20:16
For those that do worship the spirit in the trinity doctrine, please show some bible verse that true worshipers do that. Specifically where it says to worship the trinity.

I may well have missed it, but I don't think a single person here has said they worship the Holy Spirit. 

If God is a trinity and you worship God (3 in 1), you worship this trinity, and if the Holy Spirit is the third person of this trinity, then you must worship the Holy Spirit.

Where is this logic flawed?

No more flawed than this:

God is perfect.  Therefore if you worship (honor, adore, glorify) God, you are worshiping perfection.  The same can be said of any of the attritubutes of God the Bible speaks of... love, truth, mercy, grace, longsuffering, compassion, etc.... and on and on.

Sorry, your silliness is contagious... I got carried away with it.

What's so silly about God being 3 in 1, to a trinitarian nonetheless? If God is 3 in 1 don't you worship God as such? Or do you only worship parts of Him?

If you are somehow implying that the Holy Spirit is an attribute of God, then you are not truly a trinitarian, friend.

Well, I'm just human.  If you can read the short chapter of Genesis 1, and not see clearly, God and his Spirit (a Holy Spirit, by the way), then I guess you'll have to remain in denial till God gets your attention some other way.

WillieT,

I was once a trinitarian myself.. I never questioned the doctrine until I really started looking at the scriptures that I see as contradictory. I do not bash the character of trinitarians, I believe they are lovers of God and of what is good. I just disagree with their understanding of God.

I read Genesis and I do see the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters. I do not deny that. I also read that God says to His Son, "let Us make man in Our image." Here are two distinct persons.. the Father (the only true Unbegotten God) and now His Son, begotten of Him. For the Father made all things through Him. These two are one Spirit, and they made man (male and female) in their likeness to be one flesh.

But where do you see this third and distinct person in Genesis chapter 1? Where is this Holy Communion between three?

I take no issue with the Holy Spirit of God, with the Son of God or with God the Father Himself.

There is to us but one God, the Father...

The trinity doctrine disagrees, in the trinity the Father is only one of three. To trinitarians there is but one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit- three distinct persons, co-equal and co-eternal. They worship this "Blessed Trinity."

I take issue with this doctrine because I do not see it taught in scripture, though I see the verses used to prove it, I disagree with their interpretation.

The Holy Spirit is the רוּחַ (wind, breath, mind) of the Father and of His Son, not a third and distinct being with whom the two have a relationship.

In the same way man has a spirit... for man is made in His image. And who knows the mind of the man save the spirit which is in him? This is not a distinct being within the man, but the inner man himself!

This is why I believe the Spirit has the attributes of personhood in the scriptures, because speaking about God's Spirit is speaking about God Himself.

I just cannot see the trinity taught in the word of God, so I don't adhere to it.

Well, that's good that you're comfortable with it.  I just find too much saying the opposite to hold an Arian view.  Maybe if there's beer in Heaven (if that's really a "place" - another topic), the one who is incorrect in this can buy the other a round.  (will we have money?  ::doh:: )

Hummm.....   Maybe this is part of God's plan.

To put enough things in the Bible that seem totally opposite..... to see if we humans can still figure out how to work in harmony, despite so many differing views that will really never amount to a hill of beans in His final scheme of salvation anyway.

Something to ponder.

BTW, thank you for your very nice, and helpful post just made.

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 16:38:28
Maybe if there's beer in Heaven (if that's really a "place" - another topic), the one who is incorrect in this can buy the other a round.  (will we have money?  ::doh:: )

Even a pauper in heaven can scoop up some of the street dust and pay for a feast!

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 16:38:28
Well, that's good that you're comfortable with it.  I just find too much saying the opposite to hold an Arian view.  Maybe if there's beer in Heaven (if that's really a "place" - another topic), the one who is incorrect in this can buy the other a round.  (will we have money?  ::doh:: )

::smile:: I'll take a wine.

I agree, I worked with a couple who were Jehovah Witnesses for many years and I cannot see the Arian view taught either.

My beliefs don't fall in line with trinitarian, binitarian, unitarian or arian.

What am I?  ::shrug::

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 13:56:39

Well, I'm just human.  If you can read the short chapter of Genesis 1, and not see clearly, God and his Spirit (a Holy Spirit, by the way), then I guess you'll have to remain in denial till God gets your attention some other way.[/size]

There is not God and his Spirit.

Joh.4v24; God is Spirit.
GOD IS THE SPIRIT OF HOLYNESS....there is not another.

That is how Jesus could say : I and my FATHER are ONE...in spirit/mind.....not in person or being....of ONE MIND.
Jesus never thought, said or did anything his Father had not told him Joh.12v49.

: Willie T  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 16:43:43
Hummm.....   Maybe this is part of God's plan.

To put enough things in the Bible that seem totally opposite..... to see if we humans can still figure out how to work in harmony, despite so many differing views that will really never amount to a hill of beans in His final scheme of salvation anyway.

Something to ponder.

BTW, thank you for your very nice, and helpful post just made.

You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:34:57
This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

You've got it, girl! (http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Joyous/animals-4.gif)

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

I'm not sure that lines up with what she was saying in response to Willie's comment (which I agree with btw...Romans 14 and all  ::smile::)

But, about what you said...of course, living out what the Word says is the best way to go.  Its actually quite biblical actually!  ::smile::
James 1:22-25
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

Oops, I read world instead of word, my bad. I just can't get into your word regularly.  ::tippinghat::

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:34:57
This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

Can you explain to the people that aren't spirit filled how you do this without bias?

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:40:47

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

What are you talking about? Do you think the word of God is of this world? If you aren't into the word at least daily, you can't expect to receive any revelation from God, or hope to live it. You can't live the word if you don't know it. It is through the written word that God primarily speaks to us.

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:50:34

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:40:47

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

What are you talking about? Do you think the word of God is of this world? If you aren't into the word at least daily, you can't expect to receive any revelation from God, or hope to live it. You can't live the word if you don't know it. It is through the written word that God primarily speaks to us.

You just missed my edit. I read what you said with an extra letter, the font is tiny here!

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:41:45

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:34:57
This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

Can you explain to the people that aren't spirit filled how you do this without bias?

Bias has nothing to do with it. You simply submit all you've got to Holy Spirit, and submit to complete worship and adoration of the Lord, and He will come and fill you to overflowing with His presence.

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:54:29

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:41:45

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:34:57
This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

Can you explain to the people that aren't spirit filled how you do this without bias?

Bias has nothing to do with it. You simply submit all you've got to Holy Spirit, and submit to complete worship and adoration of the Lord, and He will come and fill you to overflowing with His presence.

Then how can the people that aren't filled with the spirit understand what she said? We are here to help people, not tell them it's my way or no way.

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:41:45

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:34:57
This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

Can you explain to the people that aren't spirit filled how you do this without bias?

Sorry, I did not mean to show prejudice. I just never understood it myself until the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

I will start with praying in the spirit...
Praying in the Spirit is a phase used in Jude 20. The Holy Spirit has a prayer language of His own, which He imparts to believers who are baptized in the HS (Acts 2:1-4; 10:45-46;19:1-7).  The Bible teaches that we are body, soul and spirit (1 THess. 5:22).  When a believer prays "in the Spirit" they are praying in the language the Lord has imparted to the individual's inner spirit.  In 1 Cor. 14:14.."For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful".  I believe just as our human body haas a voice box with vocal cords etc. our inner man (spirit) has an inner voice of its own. This is our spirit speaking directly to God (1 Cor. 14:2)

I can not really explain how you do it...just as I can not explain how the new creature is born from above. Faith! Learning more about the spirit, soul and body and how they function will help some understand.
God always communicates with our spirit. We have to know how to identify the difference between God communing with our spirit and the devil fooling our minds.

This will take a whole new thread to really get into it! THat is why I said ... "only the Spirit filled will understand" my short explaination of where I was at as far as worshiping the Spirit or in the spirit. ::shrug::

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:56:04

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:54:29

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:41:45

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:34:57
This question has puzzled me ::headscratch::...

I worship God...He is Spirit! So I worship the Spirit that is God!

I am spirit, soul and body... in my spirit is my new nature (born from above), with that spirit within me..I worship God!

I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)   ::prayinghard:: ::lalala:: ::bowing::

Can you explain to the people that aren't spirit filled how you do this without bias?

Bias has nothing to do with it. You simply submit all you've got to Holy Spirit, and submit to complete worship and adoration of the Lord, and He will come and fill you to overflowing with His presence.

Then how can the people that aren't filled with the spirit understand what she said? We are here to help people, not tell them it's my way or no way.

I did not say it was my way or no way! I explained who and how I worship!

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:54:29

Bias has nothing to do with it. You simply submit all you've got to Holy Spirit, and submit to complete worship and adoration of the Lord, and He will come and fill you to overflowing with His presence.

Lively Stone,

Are you saying anyone can "pray in tongues" if they just submit completely to God? I read that Katy Perry told Rolling Stone that she prayed in tongues regularly. Hmmm, interesting... I won't even let my young children listen to her music. Do you even have to be a believer and follower of Jesus Christ to speak with tongues, to pray in tongues etc? I've read many of the pagans in Paul's day did the same. Are you a Pentecostal? Just curious.

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

How right you are Bitter Sweet !!!!!!
The WORD is not irrellevant...far from it.....But the Spirit of God perfects it !!!!
If one does not obey His Word how can one obey His Spirit ?

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:50:34

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:40:47

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

What are you talking about? Do you think the word of God is of this world? If you aren't into the word at least daily, you can't expect to receive any revelation from God, or hope to live it. You can't live the word if you don't know it. It is through the written word that God primarily speaks to us.

READING the Word of God is of little or no effect UNLESS we also put it into ACTION.
To be fair many try to do that but in general they baulk or reject the 10 Commandments, especially God's holy sabbath. This is a violation of His Command and is not overlooked By GOD. They may quote Rom.14 as much as they like ...but Paul is not above God, besides being badly misunderstood ! Paul never changed the law.

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 22:21:59

I did not say it was my way or no way! I explained who and how I worship!

People that aren't spirit filled were excluded, pray for wisdom to impart instructions for them that need it most.

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 05:59:18

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 22:21:59

I did not say it was my way or no way! I explained who and how I worship!

People that aren't spirit filled were excluded, pray for wisdom to impart instructions for them that need it most.

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Again, I did not mean to be prejudice or exclude anyone!
There is none righteous! all are sinners!

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 07:32:06

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 05:59:18

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 22:21:59

I did not say it was my way or no way! I explained who and how I worship!

People that aren't spirit filled were excluded, pray for wisdom to impart instructions for them that need it most.

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Again, I did not mean to be prejudice or exclude anyone!
There is none righteous! all are sinners!

Grace isn't a doorway for immorality. Noah, Joseph, Simeon, Abel, Zechariah, Lot, Abraham, Paul, Silas and Timothy, these people are righteous, the bible say's so.

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 07:43:56

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 07:32:06

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 05:59:18

: grace  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 22:21:59

I did not say it was my way or no way! I explained who and how I worship!

People that aren't spirit filled were excluded, pray for wisdom to impart instructions for them that need it most.

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Again, I did not mean to be prejudice or exclude anyone!
There is none righteous! all are sinners!

Grace isn't a doorway for immorality. Noah, Joseph, Simeon, Abel, Zechariah, Lot, Abraham, Paul, Silas and Timothy, these people are righteous, the bible say's so.

Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

But they were made righteous the same way we are, are they not?

When we place our trust in Jesus as our Savior then we receive righteousness from God, which means that we become blameless and free from the guilt of our sins. Our sins are placed into Jesus' bank account, so to speak, and His righteousness is placed into our account.


"For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."" (Romans 1:17)

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." (Romans 3:22)

"not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ --the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith." (Philippians 3:9)

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

: raggthyme76  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 03:45:56

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:54:29

Bias has nothing to do with it. You simply submit all you've got to Holy Spirit, and submit to complete worship and adoration of the Lord, and He will come and fill you to overflowing with His presence.

Lively Stone,

Are you saying anyone can "pray in tongues" if they just submit completely to God? I read that Katy Perry told Rolling Stone that she prayed in tongues regularly. Hmmm, interesting... I won't even let my young children listen to her music. Do you even have to be a believer and follower of Jesus Christ to speak with tongues, to pray in tongues etc? I've read many of the pagans in Paul's day did the same. Are you a Pentecostal? Just curious.

if you have the baptism of Holy Spirit, you can pray in tongues. The prophetic gift of tongues is something only a few have, but the grace gift to be able to pray in tongues, anyone who has experienced the baptism can use.

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 03:54:39

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

How right you are Bitter Sweet !!!!!!
The WORD is not irrellevant...far from it.....But the Spirit of God perfects it !!!!
If one does not obey His Word how can one obey His Spirit ?

If you don't have the Spirit, you cannot obey the word, or even understand it.

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:10:17

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:40:47

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

Oops, I read world instead of word, my bad. I just can't get into your word regularly.  ::tippinghat::

You are right again Bitter Sweet !!!

It is obvious from our disagreements with traditional christians that we (you and I in this case) do not worship the same God as they do. Theirs is the god of this world who allows disobedience and personal interpretation of scripture and even quoting it.
But the Holy SPirit of our Father requires obedience and respect to HIs WORD. Jesus had to learn obedience....is any less expected from those who are being conformed to HIS image Heb.5v8,9; Rom.8v29.??

You don't see she made a mistake in her post? Or did you see it anyway and then jump on the opportunity to decry everyone in order to laud yourself?

How pathetic.

: raggthyme76  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 03:45:56
Are you saying anyone can "pray in tongues" if they just submit completely to God? I read that Katy Perry told Rolling Stone that she prayed in tongues regularly. Hmmm, interesting... I won't even let my young children listen to her music. Do you even have to be a believer and follower of Jesus Christ to speak with tongues, to pray in tongues etc? I've read many of the pagans in Paul's day did the same. Are you a Pentecostal? Just curious.

Seriously, Raggy?  Obama says he is a Christian too.  Does that keep you from praying to a God he probably doesn't even know?

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:50:34

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:40:47

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

What are you talking about? Do you think the word of God is of this world? If you aren't into the word at least daily, you can't expect to receive any revelation from God, or hope to live it. You can't live the word if you don't know it. It is through the written word that God primarily speaks to us.

READING the Word of God is of little or no effect UNLESS we also put it into ACTION.
To be fair many try to do that but in general they baulk or reject the 10 Commandments, especially God's holy sabbath. This is a violation of His Command and is not overlooked By GOD. They may quote Rom.14 as much as they like ...but Paul is not above God, besides being badly misunderstood ! Paul never changed the law.

You need to crack open the Book if you want to know the will of God.

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

I can see you are being played with, and words are being attributed to you that we can all see that you NEVER said.

Beta,
Are you sitting there saying you have kept the 10 commandments?  All of them?

I think we all know better than that.

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:10:17

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:40:47

: Lively Stone  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 21:27:38

: Bitter Sweet  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:50:16

: MeMyself  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:41:13

: Beta  Sun Jul 29, 2012 - 20:08:50
You are not far off the mark there at all, Willie. I do not think man is meant to find his way in scripture but rather by God's Revelation to man ....for HIS ways are past finding out.

Beta, I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying...God's revelation to man trumps the word is that what you mean?

I don't want to speak for Beta but my experience with living the word (doing what it say's) compared to just reading it gives more revelation.

If we don't get into the word regularly, then we won't receive revelation enough to live it.

The God I worship isn't the God of this world. Sorry, no can do.

Oops, I read world instead of word, my bad. I just can't get into your word regularly.  ::tippinghat::

You are right again Bitter Sweet !!!

It is obvious from our disagreements with traditional christians that we (you and I in this case) do not worship the same God as they do. Theirs is the god of this world who allows disobedience and personal interpretation of scripture and even quoting it.
But the Holy SPirit of our Father requires obedience and respect to HIs WORD. Jesus had to learn obedience....is any less expected from those who are being conformed to HIS image Heb.5v8,9; Rom.8v29.??

What an absolutely arrogant, divisive, haughty, judgmental attitude, Beta!  ::frown::

Proverbs 6:16-19"There are six things the Lord hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

a false witness who pours out lies

and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers."
______
And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

You pass judgment on people's salvation and the God they serve based on rule following...just like the Pharisees did.
Jesus said its the matter of the heart that is the issue.
He said "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."  That means everyone who was "obeying" the 10 commandments and was patting themselves on the back for being so much better than everyone else had better think again..because it wasn't just action that was judged..it is the attitudes of the heart!

please note that it is against the rules  to say or imply that anyone here isnt a true believer  or that they dont worship the true  God. I have sent one post by you Beta to the dumpster for that reason.

: Lively Stone  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:27:07

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

I can see you are being played with, and words are being attributed to you that we can all see that you NEVER said.

::hug:: ::hug:: ::hug:: ::hug:: ::hug:: To you, Grace

Frankly, the box-over-box system of quoting this BBS uses is one of the most confusing and cluttered I think I've ever seen.

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 10:06:59
Frankly, the box-over-box system of quoting this BBS uses is one of the most confusing and cluttered I think I've ever seen.

(It's not bad when one quotes one or two posts, but when we get a huge long ladder---we have a problem!)

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08
To be fair many try to do that but in general they baulk or reject the 10 Commandments,

How can you possibly know this?  That Christians baulk at the 10 commandments?

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08
especially God's holy sabbath.

Oh!  Because a day matters more to God than the heart.... ::juggle:: THAT alone is what He is going to use to judge between the sheep and the goats.  ::frown::

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08
This is a violation of His Command and is not overlooked By GOD.

This obviously is a sin for you, so I would NEVER do anything to cause to to stumble...but can you offer the same grace?
I will not pass judgment on you, or insist you give up your sabbath keeping to show you are a true follower of Christ and let Him be your sabbath rest...because I understand how important and precious it is to you, and I want you to have a clear conscience before the Lord...and I believe whether we worship on Wednesday, Tuesday, Saturday or Sunday, its JESUS who is worshipped, and THAT is the important thing!

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08
They may quote Rom.14 as much as they like ...

Thanks!  I will!  Why? Because it promotes what Jesus prayed for in the garden that fateful night!  That we.would.be.one!
Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08
...but Paul is not above God,

Paul's words were inspired by God through the Holy Spirit.  God was speaking through him.

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 04:24:08
besides being badly misunderstood ! Paul never changed the law.

No he is not.  And, he never did change the law...the law is to show us how we fall so short of God's perfection, His standard..and why we need our Savior Jesus Christ.
Some thought they could follow it good enough to impress God, but Jesus came and blew their doors off by showing the heart must be as innocent as inaction for it to be truly good enough...who can measure up to that? NONE (except Jesus the standard bearer)...and so we need to humble our hearts before Him. When we do that, we begin to recognize the amazing grace that is offered to us and are compelled to turn and show just a hint of it to others.

Good job as usual, MeMyself!

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:23:10

: raggthyme76  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 03:45:56
Are you saying anyone can "pray in tongues" if they just submit completely to God? I read that Katy Perry told Rolling Stone that she prayed in tongues regularly. Hmmm, interesting... I won't even let my young children listen to her music. Do you even have to be a believer and follower of Jesus Christ to speak with tongues, to pray in tongues etc? I've read many of the pagans in Paul's day did the same. Are you a Pentecostal? Just curious.

Seriously, Raggy?  Obama says he is a Christian too.  Does that keep you from praying to a God he probably doesn't even know?

Good point WillieT, I'm just skeptical about this tongues thing. When I was young I saw some very frightful things in a Pentecostal church, even a child looked like he was possessed, shaking around violently and falling to the floor, babbling what they called tongues. How can one know what is genuinely from God? Especially when others who are not followers of Jesus have spoken with tongues, pagans and such.

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 13:47:38

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

I thought you were insinuating that I thought Grace was a doorway for immorality. I simply said I did not recall stating that anywhere on this thread!

I don't know where you are going with all this Bitter Sweet? Or what I said to get you all upset...UNLESS...it was my testimony of how I worshipped.. ::pondering::

: MeMyself  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:43:48

And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

Perhaps somebody made a mistake penning Heb.5v8.....or do you disagree  ???

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:43:35

: MeMyself  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:43:48

And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

Perhaps somebody made a mistake penning Heb.5v8.....or do you disagree  ???

I think you'll find that refers to:

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:18:31

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 13:47:38

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

I thought you were insinuating that I thought Grace was a doorway for immorality. I simply said I did not recall stating that anywhere on this thread!

I don't know where you are going with all this Bitter Sweet? Or what I said to get you all upset...UNLESS...it was my testimony of how I worshipped.. ::pondering::

Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

Memyself,
I believe the ultimate judgement is not according to man's heart which according to Jer.17v9 is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.....but rather according to Rev.20v12; which were judged out of the book of LIFE and what was written THERE.

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:49:50

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:43:35

: MeMyself  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:43:48

And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

Perhaps somebody made a mistake penning Heb.5v8.....or do you disagree  ???

I think you'll find that refers to:

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

So what are you saying Willie...
that our humanity has nothing to do with Jesus' humanity ?
Isn't that where we should start ???

Doesn't scripture talk about children of obedience and children of DISobedience ?

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:06:37

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:49:50

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:43:35

: MeMyself  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:43:48

And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

Perhaps somebody made a mistake penning Heb.5v8.....or do you disagree  ???

I think you'll find that refers to:

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

So what are you saying Willie...
that our humanity has nothing to do with Jesus' humanity ?
Isn't that where we should start ???

Doesn't scripture talk about children of obedience and children of DISobedience ?

No.  You were quite obviously trying to say that Jesus did wrong at times like the rest of us (dont all kids lie, steal, act selfish, often hit one another, etc?  Of course they do.), and therefore had to learn (be taught) obedience.  I was pointing out that behavior like that would not have existed in someone who NEVER SINNED.  I pointed out that the OBEDIENCE spoken of there was going to the cross.

: Bitter Sweet  Fri Jul 27, 2012 - 06:02:48
John 4:23 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth[/b], for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

What's the difference between worshiping a spirit and worshiping in the spirit? There are 2 requirements mentioned in this verse, spirit and truth, God is spirit and as worshipers we must be in Spirit and Truth.

Hello Sister.

I worship in the Spirit. When I pray, I give thanks to the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, my Comforter. It's interesting to note that the only sin not to be forgiven is the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. So, in essence, I also worship the Holy Spirit as the wonderful gift Jesus imparted to us.

Amen.

May all of our brothers and sisters stop quarreling and give each other a virtual hug? Please. Pretty please? With sugar on top?


Thanks.


John

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:18:31

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 13:47:38

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

I thought you were insinuating that I thought Grace was a doorway for immorality. I simply said I did not recall stating that anywhere on this thread!

I don't know where you are going with all this Bitter Sweet? Or what I said to get you all upset...UNLESS...it was my testimony of how I worshipped.. ::pondering::

Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

::shrug::  I have read the thread several times and still do not understand what the problem is!

I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about only those that are spirit filled will understand. But I guess maybe I was right because I was asked to explain myself.  ::headscratch::

1 Cor. 2 shows that God reveals things to us through our spirit. It is this spirit that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Not through man's wisdom, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is with our spirit that we worship, understand and discern...

That said...Bitter Sweet...we just do not communicate very well! Too many misunderstandings! So I will just let it go and the readers can try to figure it out...because I still do not understand how you got so offended!

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:28:11

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:18:31

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 13:47:38

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

I thought you were insinuating that I thought Grace was a doorway for immorality. I simply said I did not recall stating that anywhere on this thread!

I don't know where you are going with all this Bitter Sweet? Or what I said to get you all upset...UNLESS...it was my testimony of how I worshipped.. ::pondering::

Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

::shrug::  I have read the thread several times and still do not understand what the problem is!

I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about only those that are spirit filled will understand. But I guess maybe I was right because I was asked to explain myself.  ::headscratch::

1 Cor. 2 shows that God reveals things to us through our spirit. It is this spirit that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Not through man's wisdom, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is with our spirit that we worship, understand and discern...

That said...Bitter Sweet...we just do not communicate very well! Too many misunderstandings! So I will just let it go and the readers can try to figure it out...because I still do not understand how you got so offended!

I wasn't offended, just showing you error.

You say you worship in the spirit, but it comes across as a self serving spirit because you are unable to reach those that aren't spirit filled. You stated that people without the spirit won't understand, what kind of a spirit are you worshiping in that isn't able to help others to understand? I wonder why you aren't understanding me too.

I suggested you pray for wisdom, if you don't think it's necessary don't do it.

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:19:36

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:06:37

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:49:50

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:43:35

: MeMyself  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:43:48

And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

Perhaps somebody made a mistake penning Heb.5v8.....or do you disagree  ???

I think you'll find that refers to:

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

So what are you saying Willie...
that our humanity has nothing to do with Jesus' humanity ?
Isn't that where we should start ???

Doesn't scripture talk about children of obedience and children of DISobedience ?

No.  You were quite obviously trying to say that Jesus did wrong at times like the rest of us (dont all kids lie, steal, act selfish, often hit one another, etc?  Of course they do.), and therefore had to learn (be taught) obedience.  I was pointing out that behavior like that would not have existed in someone who NEVER SINNED.  I pointed out that the OBEDIENCE spoken of there was going to the cross.

Willie, you are reading into scripture something I did not say or you thought I implied !
HE Jesus would not have been naughty in the sense we are as children but there were issues to be resolved as when he stayed behind in Jerusalem and his parents looked for him for several days. Lk.2v48-51 In the end he returned home and was 'subject to them. And going to the cross too he showed obedience and subjection to God his Father. It was not all 'cut and dried and easy for him as a Human....nor was the life of the Apostles most of whom lost their lives in horrible ways.
If Jesus has done it all for us why did they (the saints) have to go through it too ? Why do some of us have to be killed as they were ? To be conformed to Jesus' image one has to suffer as He did.
Obedience is obedience whatever form it has to take....unto death if necessary !.

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:47:47

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:28:11

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:18:31

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 13:47:38

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

I thought you were insinuating that I thought Grace was a doorway for immorality. I simply said I did not recall stating that anywhere on this thread!

I don't know where you are going with all this Bitter Sweet? Or what I said to get you all upset...UNLESS...it was my testimony of how I worshipped.. ::pondering::

Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

::shrug::  I have read the thread several times and still do not understand what the problem is!

I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about only those that are spirit filled will understand. But I guess maybe I was right because I was asked to explain myself.  ::headscratch::

1 Cor. 2 shows that God reveals things to us through our spirit. It is this spirit that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Not through man's wisdom, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is with our spirit that we worship, understand and discern...

That said...Bitter Sweet...we just do not communicate very well! Too many misunderstandings! So I will just let it go and the readers can try to figure it out...because I still do not understand how you got so offended!

I wasn't offended, just showing you error.

You say you worship in the spirit, but it comes across as a self serving spirit because you are unable to reach those that aren't spirit filled. You stated that people without the spirit won't understand, what kind of a spirit are you worshiping in that isn't able to help others to understand? I wonder why you aren't understanding me too.

I suggested you pray for wisdom, if you don't think it's necessary don't do it.

::smile::

: Willie T  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:49:50

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:43:35

: MeMyself  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:43:48

And, Jesus never had to learn obedience!  Jesus is God!

Perhaps somebody made a mistake penning Heb.5v8.....or do you disagree  ???

I think you'll find that refers to:

Philippians 2:8
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!

::smile:: ::amen!::  Thank you, Willie! Our internet was down...glad to know you got His back.  ::giggle::

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:00:07
Memyself,
I believe the ultimate judgement is not according to man's heart which according to Jer.17v9 is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.....but rather according to Rev.20v12; which were judged out of the book of LIFE and what was written THERE.

Right...and how does one get written in there, Beta? Through Jesus (who is the only way to the Father) IN the heart of those that believe He is Lord!

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:49:08
If Jesus has done it all for us

IF   ::faint::

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:49:08
why did they (the saints) have to go through it too ? Why do some of us have to be killed as they were ?

They didn't have to be like Jesus had to be! They were killed, persecuted, their deaths are sad but they do nothing for us or them! JESUS death is the one that atoned for sins!  While we were yet sinners, Christ (Jesus) died for us!

: Beta  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:49:08
To be conformed to Jesus' image one has to suffer as He did.
Obedience is obedience whatever form it has to take....unto death if necessary !.

::cryingtears:: no...thats not true..and I am so deeply sorry that someone told you this.  Our obedience is to obey Him when He says He alone is the way to the Father, to confess with our mouth that He is Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead....we will never have to suffer the way He did! Even if we are put to death for our beliefs, we will never know the suffering of God forsaking us like Jesus cried out.
Jesus took our suffering, our wages of sin upon Himself so that we will never have to be forsake by the Father if we accept the free gift of salvation that He offers us. 

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 15:28:11

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:18:31

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 13:47:38

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 09:05:41

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:30:33

: grace  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 08:01:40
Don't recall saying that Grace was a doorway for immorality?  ::headscratch::

You just said it was in this quote, I said it isn't and so does the bible. No wonder you are confused.

Romans 6:1  What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

My only confusion is coming from your replies right now!  ::headscratch::
Where did I say what you say I am saying?
I never said that Grace was a doorway for immorality! I don't recall quoting that scripture! Are you confusing my post with someone else?

Look at the first quote in this box, you said it was after I said it isn't. The testimony of Jesus is spirit of prophecy. I suggested you pray for wisdom, instead of agreeing that grace isn't a doorway for immorality, you say you never said it was and condemned yourself with your own words. Am I not allowed to mention anything from scripture without you denying that you say the opposite?

BTW, you have just stated it again in this last quote from you. Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. It's not scriptural to say that it is so why would you quote scripture?

Just pray for some wisdom, it's not a bad suggestion.

I thought you were insinuating that I thought Grace was a doorway for immorality. I simply said I did not recall stating that anywhere on this thread!

I don't know where you are going with all this Bitter Sweet? Or what I said to get you all upset...UNLESS...it was my testimony of how I worshipped.. ::pondering::

Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

::shrug::  I have read the thread several times and still do not understand what the problem is!

I did not mean to offend anyone by my comment about only those that are spirit filled will understand. But I guess maybe I was right because I was asked to explain myself.  ::headscratch::

1 Cor. 2 shows that God reveals things to us through our spirit. It is this spirit that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Not through man's wisdom, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth: comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is with our spirit that we worship, understand and discern...

That said...Bitter Sweet...we just do not communicate very well! Too many misunderstandings! So I will just let it go and the readers can try to figure it out...because I still do not understand how you got so offended!

I have searched the thread also, and it appears that the poster in question has made charges against you out of thin air. You never said what you have been accused of saying. It is more than a misunderstanding, and your accuser needs to apologize and drop it, or risk offending everyone.

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42
Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

This is what was said that you have taken offense at:

"I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)"

You cannot consider that 'not nice', because it is true. Only those who have been baptized in the Spirit experience praying, worshiping and singing in the Spirit. It isn't a declaration that those who don't aren't saved people!

Instead, you took offense and led this thread down one of your rabbit holes and lied abut one of our dearest members, to boot. You need to apologize.

: Lively Stone  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 19:02:01

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42
Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

This is what was said that you have taken offense at:

"I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)"

You cannot consider that 'not nice', because it is true. Only those who have been baptized in the Spirit experience praying, worshiping and singing in the Spirit. It isn't a declaration that those who don't aren't saved people!

Instead, you took offense and led this thread down one of your rabbit holes and lied abut one of our dearest members, to boot. You need to apologize.

First of all, you are breaking a commandment by bearing false witness. I already stated I wasn't offended and you are falsely accusing me.

The thing is, it's quite easy to understand what she said, spirit filled or not. She said that some people wouldn't understand, what is there to not understand except that she isn't building people up that need to be built up?

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 19:11:13

: Lively Stone  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 19:02:01

: Bitter Sweet  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 14:58:42
Well it did start by with your testimony excluding people that aren't spirit filled. Not nice, we are supposed to help those people, the righteous don't need a doctor. You were basically speaking for nothing because it was of no use for people that are not filled with the spirit. Then you denied saying something while saying it, words are very precious to God and we are held accountable for everything we say. Please don't take this as me against you but us for God.

Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

This is what was said that you have taken offense at:

"I pray in the spirit, I sing in the spirit and I worship in the spirit! ...(ONLY those that are spirit filled will understand this statement)"

You cannot consider that 'not nice', because it is true. Only those who have been baptized in the Spirit experience praying, worshiping and singing in the Spirit. It isn't a declaration that those who don't aren't saved people!

Instead, you took offense and led this thread down one of your rabbit holes and lied abut one of our dearest members, to boot. You need to apologize.

First of all, you are breaking a commandment by bearing false witness. I already stated I wasn't offended and you are falsely accusing me.

Not true, but...whatevah.

The thing is, it's quite easy to understand what she said, spirit filled or not. She said that some people wouldn't understand, what is there to not understand except that she isn't building people up that need to be built up?

So I take it you understood, then? She is right, however---some will not understand the things of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

: raggthyme76  Mon Jul 30, 2012 - 03:45:56

I read that Katy Perry told Rolling Stone that she prayed in tongues regularly. Hmmm, interesting... I won't even let my young children listen to her music.

My husband always leaves a song for my spirit on the cd player, he puts together all the music for my children and I to listen to. He always leaves a song on ready to play from the beginning when he drives my car last. Funny you don't listen to Katy Perry because I kept thinking of your spirit when I heard this song. It's very inspirational.  ::smile::

Katy Perry - Firework Lyrics Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNErnpwF06A#ws)

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[d] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

He left this song for us on Saturday and I noticed your post yesterday, I knew I had to wait for the right moment to show it to you.  ::smile::

Bitter Sweet,
I'm curious, how does this song minister to your spirit?

About a month ago something happened and my computer will no longer play youtube videos.. this is the message I get every time:

"An error has occurred, please try again later"

When Katy Perry came out with the song "I kissed a girl" I knew she was not the type of role model I wanted for my young children, especially for my little girl. Our Christian neighbors feel very differently, they allow their children to listen to and watch Perry, Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars etc and that's between them and the Lord. As I tell my kids, I'm acting upon what I believe God has laid on my heart. I feel it's extremely important to guard our hearts and what we let into them. And for our family, the people my kids look up to should have godly character. I understand that there are "neutral" secular songs out there and in certain cases I allow them to download them, but sometimes I just say no because of the person singing. It's hard to explain, it's just a strong personal conviction.  ::smile::

It's not an openly bad song on the surface.  But it does promote the distinction that it is all YOU and "what YOU have had inside you all the time, to impress and blow people away."

Kind of like the sly way Disney movies promote US doing it all.  They promote, "It's the 'inner us', not who we are through God".

: raggthyme76  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 12:46:08
Bitter Sweet,
I'm curious, how does this song minister to your spirit?

Sometimes when we are feeling down we just need a little encouragement, this is how my spirit sings, through pop stars. Just like the bible, the words are singing for us, to us. God is everywhere and in everything we do, even listening to music, we give thanks to him for giving it to us.

It's weird because my husband always know what song to play for me.

About a month ago something happened and my computer will no longer play youtube videos.. this is the message I get every time:

"An error has occurred, please try again later"

Here's the lyrics.

Do you ever feel like a plastic bag,
Drifting through the wind
Wanting to start again?
Do you ever feel, feel so paper thin
Like a house of cards,
One blow from caving in?

Do you ever feel already buried deep?
6 feet under screams but no one seems to hear a thing
Do you know that there's still a chance for you
'Cause there's a spark in you

You just gotta ignite the light, and let it shine
Just own the night like the 4th of July

'Cause baby you're a firework
Come on, show 'em what you're worth
Make 'em go "Oh, oh, oh"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y

Baby, you're a firework
Come on, let your colours burst
Make 'em go "Oh, oh, oh"
You're gonna leave 'em all in "awe, awe, awe"

You don't have to feel like a wasted space
You're original, cannot be replaced
If you only knew what the future holds
After a hurricane comes a rainbow

Maybe your reason why all the doors are closed
So you could open one that leads you to the perfect road
Like a lightning bolt, your heart will glow
And when it's time, you'll know

You just gotta ignite the light, and let it shine
Just own the night like the 4th of July

'Cause baby you're a firework
Come on, show 'em what you're worth
Make 'em go "Oh, oh, oh"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y

Baby, you're a firework
Come on, let your colours burst
Make 'em go "Oh, Oh, Oh"
You're gonna leave 'em all in "awe, awe, awe"

Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon
It's always been inside of you, you, you
And now it's time to let it through-ough-ough

'Cause baby you're a firework
Come on, show 'em what you're worth
Make 'em go "Oh, Oh, Oh"
As you shoot across the sky-y-y

Baby, you're a firework
Come on, let your colours burst
Make 'em go "Oh, Oh, Oh"
You're gonna leave 'em all in "awe, awe, awe"

Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon
Boom, boom, boom
Even brighter than the moon, moon, moon

When Katy Perry came out with the song "I kissed a girl" I knew she was not the type of role model I wanted for my young children, especially for my little girl. Our Christian neighbors feel very differently, they allow their children to listen to and watch Perry, Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars etc and that's between them and the Lord. As I tell my kids, I'm acting upon what I believe God has laid on my heart. I feel it's extremely important to guard our hearts and what we let into them. And for our family, the people my kids look up to should have godly character. I understand that there are "neutral" secular songs out there and in certain cases I allow them to download them, but sometimes I just say no because of the person singing. It's hard to explain, it's just a strong personal conviction.  ::smile::

That's the great thing about i-tunes, we can pick and choose individual songs and we don't have to get the whole album. She does have some good inspirational music, you would be surprised that some of her songs seem to be rooted with biblical truth. Especially this one, being blown by the wind, not that I think you are but sometimes I think you show doubt in yourself but not in your faith. It get's me back with the spirit and for some reason I kept thinking of your spirit too when I heard this song for the first time the other day.

: raggthyme76  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 12:46:08
Bitter Sweet,
I'm curious, how does this song minister to your spirit?

About a month ago something happened and my computer will no longer play youtube videos.. this is the message I get every time:

"An error has occurred, please try again later"

When Katy Perry came out with the song "I kissed a girl" I knew she was not the type of role model I wanted for my young children, especially for my little girl. Our Christian neighbors feel very differently, they allow their children to listen to and watch Perry, Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars etc and that's between them and the Lord. As I tell my kids, I'm acting upon what I believe God has laid on my heart. I feel it's extremely important to guard our hearts and what we let into them. And for our family, the people my kids look up to should have godly character. I understand that there are "neutral" secular songs out there and in certain cases I allow them to download them, but sometimes I just say no because of the person singing. It's hard to explain, it's just a strong personal conviction.  ::smile::

I agree. Secular music has nothing to offer, and especially Katy Perry, who was brought up in a Christian family lives a compromised life, what has she to offer me? I would much rather hear music from people who are so anointed to produce it, as that music will have the right spiritual effect.

This is blessing me these days...

http://youtu.be/VzGAYNKDyIU (http://youtu.be/VzGAYNKDyIU)

Thank you for thinking of me Bitter Sweet.  ::smile:: I just don't see the song as inspirational, in a biblical sense. To me, the things that minister to my spirit are infused with the truth of scripture.

I do see the self-esteem aspect of it, and that it might appeal to those who beat themselves up. But to me the answer to a weary and defeated spirit is not in merely thinking more highly of oneself (as the song indicates), but focusing on the love God has for us and who we are to Him. He alone can build us up through His truth, there are lots of pop stars out there saying, "hey.. you're somebody!" but the center is always self. If our eyes are on God and our hearts humbled before Him we will receive from Him everything we need for encouragement, even in the hard times.

Of course, this is way off the topic... sorry to go off on a tangent.  ::lookaround::

Wow, Lively!  Goosebumps!  I had never heard that one before.  Powerful.

Good Lord!

I just looked up that Katy on YouTube.  I could hardly believe my eyes... or my ears!  This is about as far from being a Christian as you can get.

http://www.mtv.com/videos/katy-perry/236308/i-kissed-a-girl.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/videos/katy-perry/236308/i-kissed-a-girl.jhtml)

: Willie T  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:05:13
Good Lord!

I just looked up that Katy on YouTube.  I could hardly believe my eyes... or my ears!  This is about as far from being a Christian as you can get.

http://www.mtv.com/videos/katy-perry/236308/i-kissed-a-girl.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/videos/katy-perry/236308/i-kissed-a-girl.jhtml)

You are right. Little girls all over the world are swooning over her and emulating her. It's disgusting.

: raggthyme76  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 14:38:28
Thank you for thinking of me Bitter Sweet.  ::smile:: I just don't see the song as inspirational, in a biblical sense. To me, the things that minister to my spirit are infused with the truth of scripture.

Brighter than the moon reminds me of the woman in revelation with the moon under her feet arrayed by the sun, the plastic bag feeling like drifting by other's words trying to convert me, I just have a very integrated mind!

Matthew 15:11 What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"

So I guess if I say something bad from what I get out of music then that would make me unclean.

I do see the self-esteem aspect of it, and that it might appeal to those who beat themselves up. But to me the answer to a weary and defeated spirit is not in merely thinking more highly of oneself (as the song indicates), but focusing on the love God has for us and who we are to Him. He alone can build us up through His truth, there are lots of pop stars out there saying, "hey.. you're somebody!" but the center is always self. If our eyes are on God and our hearts humbled before Him we will receive from Him everything we need for encouragement, even in the hard times.

Of course, this is way off the topic... sorry to go off on a tangent.  ::lookaround::

No it's not off topic, singing in the spirit maybe isn't your cup of tea with pop stars! Worshiping in the spirit can come through singing. I just never got into Christian music but I find God talking to me in lots of ways, sometimes through the least expected way. I see your point by getting all self centered through it and some people even idolize her, I don't. It's more or less my husbands way of building me up and giving me the confidence to not have darkness in my life.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

: Willie T  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:05:13
Good Lord!

I just looked up that Katy on YouTube.  I could hardly believe my eyes... or my ears!  This is about as far from being a Christian as you can get.

Maybe you shouldn't post it, that is very offensive to a lot of people. Do you mind editing it out, most of us have heard of that song. Besides it's not what goes in, it's what comes out that is unclean.

: Lively Stone  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:08:53

: Willie T  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:05:13
Good Lord!

I just looked up that Katy on YouTube.  I could hardly believe my eyes... or my ears!  This is about as far from being a Christian as you can get.

http://www.mtv.com/videos/katy-perry/236308/i-kissed-a-girl.jhtml (http://www.mtv.com/videos/katy-perry/236308/i-kissed-a-girl.jhtml)

You are right. Little girls all over the world are swooning over her and emulating her. It's disgusting.

The first time we heard that song was at a gym and it was playing over the loud speakers for all in attendance.  I was like "Wait?! What did that JUST say???"  And I looked at my very sweet innocent little 11 year old daughter whose face was like this ---> ::eek:: and I just knew I had heard correctly.
I told my husband about it and asked him to go ask the man running the sound to change the song...he did and the guy was like "sure... ::crazy::".  It broke my heart how far from what used to be considered common decency used to be our society has come..and the gym was just full of kids of all shapes, sizes and ages...just drinking in that perverse message.   ::cryingtears::

: MeMyself  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:25:25
The first time we heard that song was at a gym and it was playing over the loud speakers for all in attendance.  I was like "Wait?! What did that JUST say???"  And I looked at my very sweet innocent little 11 year old daughter whose face was like this ---> ::eek:: and I just knew I had heard correctly.
I told my husband about it and asked him to go ask the man running the sound to change the song...he did and the guy was like "sure... ::crazy::".  It broke my heart how far from what used to be considered common decency used to be our society has come..and the gym was just full of kids of all shapes, sizes and ages...just drinking in that perverse message.   ::cryingtears::

I didn't say all of her songs were wholesome!  ::giggle::

: Bitter Sweet  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:22:49

: Willie T  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:05:13
Good Lord!

I just looked up that Katy on YouTube.  I could hardly believe my eyes... or my ears!  This is about as far from being a Christian as you can get.

Maybe you shouldn't post it, that is very offensive to a lot of people. Do you mind editing it out, most of us have heard of that song. Besides it's not what goes in, it's what comes out that is unclean.

If what comes out is unclean then the place where it came from is unclean. Hence, we need to upgrade our musical preferences if we want to honour God. We cannot hope to please God with one foot in the Kingdom and the other foot in the world. It's both feet or nothing.

Psalm 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer.

: Bitter Sweet  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:30:04

: MeMyself  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:25:25
The first time we heard that song was at a gym and it was playing over the loud speakers for all in attendance.  I was like "Wait?! What did that JUST say???"  And I looked at my very sweet innocent little 11 year old daughter whose face was like this ---> ::eek:: and I just knew I had heard correctly.
I told my husband about it and asked him to go ask the man running the sound to change the song...he did and the guy was like "sure... ::crazy::".  It broke my heart how far from what used to be considered common decency used to be our society has come..and the gym was just full of kids of all shapes, sizes and ages...just drinking in that perverse message.   ::cryingtears::

I didn't say all of her songs were wholesome!  ::giggle::

I have only heard the Fireworks one...and again at a gym full of people.  ::giggle:: Its not nearly so offensive...mild and catchy...but that other one...it is heartbreaking! :(

: Lively Stone  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:31:39
If what comes out is unclean then the place where it came from is unclean. Hence, we need to upgrade our musical preferences if we want to honour God. We cannot hope to please God with one foot in the Kingdom and the other foot in the world. It's both feet or nothing.

Psalm 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing to you, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer.

We also need to upgrade our own mouths sometimes too. That's why I try to be very careful not to speak against other people or assume something about them without knowing the entire picture. This is a good place to practice that.

Honestly, I don't care for music that much, after coming to Christ it's just hasn't been priority the way it was. But now sometimes it does move my spirit and I don't create the soundtracks for my car. I don't actively seek to listen to anything in particular, whatever is on, is on if I feel like turning it on. But even on the radio, I can turn it on and it will be singing about something that was on my mind, it's weird but like I said, I integrate so much in my mind, it would probably drive other people crazy or paranoid! lol! But it's usually objective and sometimes telling me something I probably would take to kindly if I heard in person.

: MeMyself  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:31:53
...but that other one...it is heartbreaking! :(

I agree.. as it is, many of these kids are being taught in school that homosexuality is to be embraced. Good is evil and evil, good.. the songs just reflect a world without Jesus as king.

I would soon be overcome with despair seeing how children today are raised, if I didn't know that God can reach anyone, anywhere, no matter their upbringing.. and bring them from darkness to light. He did it with me!

I just hate the suffering that sin creates (in the meantime) in these little lives.

: Bitter Sweet  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:22:49

: Willie T  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 15:05:13
Good Lord!

I just looked up that Katy on YouTube.  I could hardly believe my eyes... or my ears!  This is about as far from being a Christian as you can get.

Maybe you shouldn't post it, that is very offensive to a lot of people. Do you mind editing it out, most of us have heard of that song. Besides it's not what goes in, it's what comes out that is unclean.

No, I won't edit it out.  I deliberately did NOT put the actual video up for that very reason.  People have to choose to play it this way.

And they SHOULD be able to see what is supposedly good Christian music  (sorry, I thought that's how you presented it.)  And you DID present this girl as great stuff.... leaving out any such video for us to view to decide for ourselves.  Frankly, I don't even know what to say concerning something like that.

And you say your husband programs stuff like this for you and your kids to watch and listen to?

If any of this sounds harsh..... It was meant to sound harsh.

: Willie T  Tue Jul 31, 2012 - 16:27:14

If any of this sounds harsh..... It was meant to sound harsh.[/size]

You didn't sound harsh. Just a gentle old man that get's his drawers in a wad sometimes.   ::giggle:: I know you said you had a stroke on my b-day, are you on meds? Sometimes strokes changes the personalities too.

Funny how we perceive things about others, I can't take what you say as harsh because I feel bad you had a stroke and I know 2 people that had strokes, changes their personalities completely, one was as mean as can be and the other was mean her whole life then she turned into a basket of rainbows and roses!

Sorry, I can't even take you seriously because of your condition.

Willie, I see the blessings and fingerprints of God all around you!  ::clappingoverhead:: Your words here have added so much to so many threads and your understanding of scripture has been a benefit to all who have ears to hear.

I am so glad that God lead you here to fellowship with us.  You have been a great encouragement to me, and I know I am not alone.  ::smile::

Thank you, M²,

This has been an experience.  First of all, the stroke....  You know, of course, that I have to flip myself out of bed, onto the floor, and then roll (I can't crawl) into the office where I have to climb inch-by-inch up into the chair in front of the computer.  Then, to type, I have to touch each key, individually, with my tongue which is strapped to a tongue depressor to keep it straight.  It's a momma dog!
I say all this to possibly enlist even more sympathy from BS.  Because I can now use this silliness as an excuse to be even more specific in discussing some of the off-the-wall ideas she comes up with.

Seriously, M², you and about a half dozen others here have been like a breath of fresh air in a desert of misguided delusion.   Thank you for that, for being you, for being there, and for being open to allowing God to work through you.

Gotta run now, almost time to fire up the bike and head to the gym.  That's two hours I don't get a big kick out of, but I'm at least losing weight and hardening up some.  May not be here this afternoon either.  A bunch of us are meeting at one of the local Chick-Fil-A's to lend some support.

: MeMyself  Wed Aug 01, 2012 - 09:34:02

Willie, I see the blessings and fingerprints of God all around you!  ::clappingoverhead:: Your words here have added so much to so many threads and your understanding of scripture has been a benefit to all who have ears to hear.

I am so glad that God lead you here to fellowship with us.  You have been a great encouragement to me, and I know I am not alone.  ::smile::

I agree! ::smile::

: Willie T  Wed Aug 01, 2012 - 10:00:16
Thank you, M²,

This has been an experience.  First of all, the stroke....  You know, of course, that I have to flip myself out of bed, onto the floor, and then roll (I can't crawl) into the office where I have to climb inch-by-inch up into the chair in front of the computer.  Then, to type, I have to touch each key, individually, with my tongue which is strapped to a tongue drepressor to keep it straight.  It's a momma dog!
I say all this to possibly enlist even more sympathy from BS.  Because I can now use this silliness as an excuse to be even more specific in discussing some of the off-the-wall ideas she comes up with.

Seriously, M², you and about a half dozen others here have been like a breath of fresh air in a desert of misguided delusion.   Thank you for that, for being you, for being there, and for being open to allowing God to work through you.

Gotta run now, almost time to fire up the bike ane head to the gym.  That's two hours I don't get a big kick out of, but I'm at least losing weight and hardening up some.  May not be here this afternoon either.  A bunch of us are meeting at one of the local Chick-Fil-A's to lend some support.

We have no Chick-Fil-A remotely close to us, so couldja take one for our team and feast away in our name? Thanks!  (If ya want, you could eat a sammy for the whole Fammy (heh-heh...I love stupid rhymes..HUGE Princess Bride fan  ::geek::)...there are SIX of us!  ::noworries:: It'll make the bike and gym so much more worth it!  ::disco:: )

Seriously though...have a wonderful day in the Lord!  You are a blessing!  ::smile::

I agree with MeMyself and have to say that Willie is the breath of fresh air around here!

(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Animated/freshair.gif)

Love you, Willie!

: Willie T  Wed Aug 01, 2012 - 10:00:16
I say all this to possibly enlist even more sympathy from BS. 

Too fleshy for my taste.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Worshipping in the Spirit TO the Spirit means,

Worship God (Spirit) within the fundamental of God's christianity teachings. Which is One body, One Soul, and One Spirit.

Know that you have the Spirit of God within you, and praise the Spirit of God.