Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7
Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:10:06
Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7
Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14
Read job.
Peace
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
I'll have to disagree on this. Jesus says that offenses will happen because they must, but woe unto that person that brings the offense. Also to consider is what you might think is bad is really not, but rather a good from God for your own sake. We also know that it rains on the just and the unjust, just like the sun shines on those who are evil as well as those who are good.
By grace we are saved and our sins are forgiven. Salvation does not bring about bad things because of the sins of others. This would make Christ not our Savior, since it would have been in vain.
Just my thoughts.
Peace
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Oh so if a child is sexually abused it is his/her fault? If a person is murdered or raped it was their fault? If a man is injured by a drunk driver it was his fault? If someone breaks into your house it was your fault?
matthew 13.30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.
jOHN 10.10
10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
The enemy kills, steals and destroys. Sickness and other bad things are from him.
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:35:54
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Oh so if a child is sexually abused it is his/her fault? If a person is murdered or raped it was their fault? If a man is injured by a drunk driver it was his fault? If someone breaks into your house it was your fault?
Is it their fault if they are born into a horrible life and others have beautiful lives?
Exodus 20:5-6 says we mst pay for our sins 3 lifetimes and our blessings will follow 1000 lifetimes.
: WILDJC Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:34:18
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
I'll have to disagree on this. Jesus says that offenses will happen because they must, but woe unto that person that brings the offense. Also to consider is what you might think is bad is really not, but rather a good from God for your own sake. We also know that it rains on the just and the unjust, just like the sun shines on those who are evil as well as those who are good.
By grace we are saved and our sins are forgiven. Salvation does not bring about bad things because of the sins of others. This would make Christ not our Savior, since it would have been in vain.
Just my thoughts.
Peace
Sins are forgiven but not the punishment...
Jesus said to the man He healed, not to sin again or his punishment would be worse.
Ok so tell that to the little girl who is being sexually abused. She is being punished because of her sins. ::frown:: What a horrible God you believe in. ::headscratch::
Do you not believe that Jesus has become a curse for us? We are no longer under the curse of the law OR its effects. Sickness is not from God. People can get sick because of their own sins, such as the smoker, or the drug addict, or someone who cant stop eating.
This reminds me of that appalling guy Heffner who lives in that playboy mansion and has been into the worst sexual sin for much of his life. He is a healthy man in his 80's. It doesnt follow. It rains on the good and the bad.
: WILDJC Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:34:18
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
I'll have to disagree on this. Jesus says that offenses will happen because they must, but woe unto that person that brings the offense. Also to consider is what you might think is bad is really not, but rather a good from God for your own sake. We also know that it rains on the just and the unjust, just like the sun shines on those who are evil as well as those who are good.
By grace we are saved and our sins are forgiven. Salvation does not bring about bad things because of the sins of others. This would make Christ not our Savior, since it would have been in vain.
Just my thoughts.
Peace
What about an innocent three year old, raped and killed by an evil man? What sin is she being punished for?
God isn't punishing anyone. The law of sowing and reaping is in effect. Evil prevails, and Satan has the righteous and the innocent as his main target.
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
That's a huge misinterpretation and misuse of scripture.
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 21:06:16
Ok so tell that to the little girl who is being sexually abused. She is being punished because of her sins. ::frown:: What a horrible God you believe in. ::headscratch::
Do you not believe that Jesus has become a curse for us? We are no longer under the curse of the law OR its effects. Sickness is not from God. People can get sick because of their own sins, such as the smoker, or the drug addict, or someone who cant stop eating.
This reminds me of that appalling guy Heffner who lives in that playboy mansion and has been into the worst sexual sin for much of his life. He is a healthy man in his 80's. It doesnt follow. It rains on the good and the bad.
When Jesus said the punishment would be worse next time, He wasn't talking about this lifetime. John 5:14
Deuteronomy 5:9-10 says those who sin will be punished in their next life.
There is no coincidences in life.
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:53:30
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:35:54
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Oh so if a child is sexually abused it is his/her fault? If a person is murdered or raped it was their fault? If a man is injured by a drunk driver it was his fault? If someone breaks into your house it was your fault?
Is it their fault if they are born into a horrible life and others have beautiful lives?
Exodus 20:5-6 says we mst pay for our sins 3 lifetimes and our blessings will follow 1000 lifetimes.
Deuteronomy 24:16"Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor children for the sins of their parents. Those deserving to die must be put to death for their own crimes.
Jeremiah 31:29-3129 "The people will no longer quote this proverb:
'The parents have eaten sour grapes,
but their children's mouths pucker at the taste.'
30 All people will die for their own sins—those who eat the sour grapes will be the ones whose mouths will pucker.
31 "The day is coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.
Ezekiel 18:20 The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent's sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child's sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.
Come forward into the NT. Who is it who has paid for our sins?
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 21:35:51
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:53:30
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:35:54
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Oh so if a child is sexually abused it is his/her fault? If a person is murdered or raped it was their fault? If a man is injured by a drunk driver it was his fault? If someone breaks into your house it was your fault?
Is it their fault if they are born into a horrible life and others have beautiful lives?
Exodus 20:5-6 says we mst pay for our sins 3 lifetimes and our blessings will follow 1000 lifetimes.
Deuteronomy 24:16
"Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor children for the sins of their parents. Those deserving to die must be put to death for their own crimes.
Jeremiah 31:29-31
29 "The people will no longer quote this proverb:
'The parents have eaten sour grapes,
but their children's mouths pucker at the taste.'
30 All people will die for their own sins—those who eat the sour grapes will be the ones whose mouths will pucker.
31 "The day is coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.
Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent's sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child's sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.
Come forward into the NT. Who is it who has paid for our sins?
The scriptures are for you in the next life.
Why did Jesus say all sin would be punished?
Anything can be "proved" from Scripture by using tweezer theology. But if you look at the verses cited
in context it is clear that the OP is misinterpreting.
: Isaiah 45
Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus,
whose right hand I have grasped,
to subdue nations before him
and to loose the belts of kings,
to open doors before him
that gates may not be closed:
2 "I will go before you
and level the exalted places,
I will break in pieces the doors of bronze
and cut through the bars of iron,
3 I will give you the treasures of darkness
and the hoards in secret places,
that you may know that it is I, the Lord,
the God of Israel, who call you by your name.
4 For the sake of my servant Jacob,
and Israel my chosen,
I call you by your name,
I name you, though you do not know me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
God does not say that all evil comes from Him.
: Deut 5
8 "'You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Deut. 5 says nothing about anyone having a "next life".
: John 5
2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades. 3 In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed. 5 One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, "Do you want to be healed?" 7 The sick man answered him, "Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me." 8 Jesus said to him, "Get up, take up your bed, and walk." 9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.
Now that day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed." 11 But he answered them, "The man who healed me, that man said to me, 'Take up your bed, and walk.'" 12 They asked him, "Who is the man who said to you, 'Take up your bed and walk'?" 13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. 14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you." 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him.
Nope, nothing there about any additional lives.
: Exodus 34
5 The Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation." 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped.
Nothing about past lives there either.
So we have a choice here. We can listen to Funguy, and believe that these scriptures are referring to reincarnation, or we can believe that God chose to use the words "fathers," "children," and "generation" because that is what He meant.
We can believe Funguy when he says that God is the source of all evil or we can believe Peter when he says that "The face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
We can believe Funguy when he says that Jesus was warning the former invalid about punishment in some future life, or we can read the Scripture and see for ourselves that there is nothing there to even hint at such a thing.
We have a choice. Will we choose amusement or reason?
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 21:52:23
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 21:35:51
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:53:30
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:35:54
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Oh so if a child is sexually abused it is his/her fault? If a person is murdered or raped it was their fault? If a man is injured by a drunk driver it was his fault? If someone breaks into your house it was your fault?
Is it their fault if they are born into a horrible life and others have beautiful lives?
Exodus 20:5-6 says we mst pay for our sins 3 lifetimes and our blessings will follow 1000 lifetimes.
Deuteronomy 24:16
"Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor children for the sins of their parents. Those deserving to die must be put to death for their own crimes.
Jeremiah 31:29-31
29 "The people will no longer quote this proverb:
'The parents have eaten sour grapes,
but their children's mouths pucker at the taste.'
30 All people will die for their own sins—those who eat the sour grapes will be the ones whose mouths will pucker.
31 "The day is coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.
Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent's sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child's sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.
Come forward into the NT. Who is it who has paid for our sins?
The scriptures are for you in the next life.
Which scriptures are you talking about? Explain.
Why did Jesus say all sin would be punished?
Why do you think?
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Ecclesiastes 9:2-3 "All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. 3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead." The righteous and the wicked all die.
Then it depends on the faith of the believer as to whether a thing is bad or good? All things work together for good to them which love the Lord. Was all that occurred in Job's life for his good? Yes.
There is another thing to be considered and that is the judgment going on in the believer's life as to our walk with Christ. Judgment begins at the house of God, and Jesus is presently walking among the candlesticks.
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. We are God's work in progress, He is doing a mighty work in us, and He ain't finished with me yet. Well, what is God then doing for the sinner? He gave them Jesus, and He sent the Holy Spirit to reprove them of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment; their condemnation is yet future.
Ecclesiastes 7:15 "All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness." Read the Eleventh Chapter of Hebrews as the worthies of faith are cut off, with seemingly little done to them they preached to. Now with Solomon, he is referring to those things of the world, or under the sun. Praise God we have a hope laid up for us in Christ, and we can rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.
In Psalm 56:8, David referenced a book belonging to God:?
Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book?
What is this book, and what does it mean for us? It is called the Book of Remembrance and everyone who has ever believed in Jesus has one. Malachi also referenced this book:
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels (Malachi 3:16-17).
This Book of Remembrance holds every act of faithful service done for the Lord. Every encouraging word, every unselfish deed, every sacrifice made, the Lord has carefully placed there as a witness to the universe that you are indeed His child.
This book is directly connected with another very important book called the Book of Life. If a name is removed from the Book of Life, that person's good deeds will also be removed from the Book of Remembrance.
"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil" (Ecclesiastes 12:14).
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 08:36:25
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
When you don't have arms or legs next time around, you will know why.
Priests were not allowed to work in the Temple if they had any deformities.
: Nevertheless Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:22:51
Anything can be "proved" from Scripture by using tweezer theology. But if you look at the verses cited in context it is clear that the OP is misinterpreting.
: Isaiah 45
Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus,
whose right hand I have grasped,
to subdue nations before him
and to loose the belts of kings,
to open doors before him
that gates may not be closed:
2 "I will go before you
and level the exalted places,
I will break in pieces the doors of bronze
and cut through the bars of iron,
3 I will give you the treasures of darkness
and the hoards in secret places,
that you may know that it is I, the Lord,
the God of Israel, who call you by your name.
4 For the sake of my servant Jacob,
and Israel my chosen,
I call you by your name,
I name you, though you do not know me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
God does not say that all evil comes from Him.
: Deut 5
8 "'You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Deut. 5 says nothing about anyone having a "next life".
: John 5
2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, in Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades. 3 In these lay a multitude of invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed. 5 One man was there who had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, "Do you want to be healed?" 7 The sick man answered him, "Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, and while I am going another steps down before me." 8 Jesus said to him, "Get up, take up your bed, and walk." 9 And at once the man was healed, and he took up his bed and walked.
Now that day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to take up your bed." 11 But he answered them, "The man who healed me, that man said to me, 'Take up your bed, and walk.'" 12 They asked him, "Who is the man who said to you, 'Take up your bed and walk'?" 13 Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. 14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, "See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you." 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him.
Nope, nothing there about any additional lives.
: Exodus 34
5 The Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation." 8 And Moses quickly bowed his head toward the earth and worshiped.
Nothing about past lives there either.
So we have a choice here. We can listen to Funguy, and believe that these scriptures are referring to reincarnation, or we can believe that God chose to use the words "fathers," "children," and "generation" because that is what He meant.
We can believe Funguy when he says that God is the source of all evil or we can believe Peter when he says that "The face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
We can believe Funguy when he says that Jesus was warning the former invalid about punishment in some future life, or we can read the Scripture and see for ourselves that there is nothing there to even hint at such a thing.
We have a choice. Will we choose amusement or reason?
::amen!::
Never,
great post!!!!
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:40:23
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 08:36:25
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
When you don't have arms or legs next time around, you will know why.
Priests were not allowed to work in the Temple if they had any deformities.
Funguy, quit kidding yourself, there is no next time around.
Scripture says it is appointed for a man to die once and it tells us that to be absent from the body is present with the Lord.
CONTEXT, Funguy, context.
If you take the "text" out of context, all you're left with is a "con".
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:49:13
CONTEXT, Funguy, context.
If you take the "text" out of context, all you're left with is a "con".
::giggle::
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:40:23
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 08:36:25
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
When you don't have arms or legs next time around, you will know why.
Priests were not allowed to work in the Temple if they had any deformities.
Next time around?
: MeMyself Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:46:17
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:40:23
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 08:36:25
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
When you don't have arms or legs next time around, you will know why.
Priests were not allowed to work in the Temple if they had any deformities.
Funguy, quit kidding yourself, there is no next time around.
Scripture says it is appointed for a man to die once and it tells us that to be absent from the body is present with the Lord.
That was referring to the Lord who was appointed to die.
Adam and Eve were never appointed to die.
Sin causes us to die.
Heaven and Hell are right here on earth , depending on your sin life, so you will always be with the Lord.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__jFgOqdirRY/TUGy_kKkt9I/AAAAAAAADog/RjSzeBzJX7g/s400/bible-in-a-nutshell.jpg)
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 11:28:26
: MeMyself Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:46:17
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:40:23
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 08:36:25
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
When you don't have arms or legs next time around, you will know why.
Priests were not allowed to work in the Temple if they had any deformities.
Funguy, quit kidding yourself, there is no next time around.
Scripture says it is appointed for a man to die once and it tells us that to be absent from the body is present with the Lord.
That was referring to the Lord who was appointed to die.
That is false.
Hebrews 9:27-2827 And just as
each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, 28 so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
Adam and Eve were never appointed to die.
Sin causes us to die.
When they sinned, they became subject to death and so the whole human race.
Heaven and Hell are right here on earth , depending on your sin life, so you will always be with the Lord.
The Kingdom of Heaven will come down to Earth one day. Hell is not on earth. If one is a sinner, he will be condemned to the Lake of Fire, where God's presence is not!
What kind of bible do you read?
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
How do you reconcile your statement with what God says?
Psalm 53:3
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil,
but to do good they have no knowledge.Micah 7:2
The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.Or, perhaps the question I should have asked is:
Why don't you consult the Word of Almighty God BEFORE you post statements that totally contradict the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I'm not trying to hurt you, but call you to greater faithfulness, so that YOUR faith may grow on to maturity.
Faith is multiplied in any believer WHEN they begin to take FAITHFULNESS (to Jesus Christ) seriously. Since He is the Absolute Truth, and since He IS God the Father's Revelation of Himself to mankind, the Living Word of God, isn't WHAT Jesus Christ SAYS the STANDARD, the PERFECT STANDARD of Truth?
According to Jesus Christ, believers do not know (all) the truth. The full truth is made known only to Jesus' Disciples, who ABIDE in His Word and do it. That is WHAT FAITHFULNESS IS, abiding in Christ, by abiding in His Word.
Unfaithfulness, on the other hand, is to take the name of Christ but refuse to be faithful to Him. That is what amounts to spiritual adultery. It is also the true meaning of the Commandment; Thou shalt NOT take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain. For God shall not uphold the wicked, neither shall He cast away (into the outer darkness) them who abide in Him.
Dear lady, faith is only the beginning of our walk with God in Christ, He desires us to move onto maturity, where we not only believe in God, but KNOW Him. For eternal Life is KNOW the ONLY One True God and Jesus Christ (His word) whom He sent to us, to reveal Himself to us.
This post is not a correction, but an exhortation to come closer to the Lord of Glory, and glorify Him, even hastening that Day of the consummation!
Love,
Mel
: Lively Stone Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 11:54:05
What kind of bible do you read?
You saw the picture of his Bible that I posted below in post #28, right?
Adam and Eve were never appointed to die.
Sin causes us to die.
Oh, really?
Then what does this mean:
Jeremiah 18
The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words." 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the Lord. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
11 "Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the Lord: "Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good."'"
and this:
Romans 9:21
Does not the Potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Just as the Natural man comes first, and then the Spiritual, so God formed the First Adam from clay, from below, and the Last Adam (Christ Jesus) of Spirit from above. To be IN Christ IS to walk ion the Spirit of Christ, for HE IS the Resurrection!
And God is Sovereign, and He's got the whole world in His Hands!
Mel
: Mel Malchut Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 15:09:40
Adam and Eve were never appointed to die.
Sin causes us to die.
Oh, really?
Then what does this mean:
Jeremiah 18
The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words." 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the Lord. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
11 "Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the Lord: "Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good."'"
and this:
Romans 9:21
Does not the Potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Just as the Natural man comes first, and then the Spiritual, so God formed the First Adam from clay, from below, and the Last Adam (Christ Jesus) of Spirit from above. To be IN Christ IS to walk ion the Spirit of Christ, for HE IS the Resurrection!
And God is Sovereign, and He's got the whole world in His Hands!
Mel
You proved what I said, we are not appointed to die. It is true God can take us for whatever reason, but there isn't a point in time where we will die because it is preordained.
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die.
: Lively Stone Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 11:54:05
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 11:28:26
: MeMyself Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:46:17
: Funguy33 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 09:40:23
: Willie T Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 08:36:25
: Lively Stone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 22:55:59
You don't believe all sin was already punished on Jesus? Who then will die for those sins that have not been dealt with?
Oh, I know. I know. Let me answer.
I'll bet Funguy33 is going to take care of those sins for us.
Right?
When you don't have arms or legs next time around, you will know why.
Priests were not allowed to work in the Temple if they had any deformities.
Funguy, quit kidding yourself, there is no next time around.
Scripture says it is appointed for a man to die once and it tells us that to be absent from the body is present with the Lord.
That was referring to the Lord who was appointed to die.
That is false.
Hebrews 9:27-28
27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, 28 so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
Adam and Eve were never appointed to die.
Sin causes us to die.
When they sinned, they became subject to death and so the whole human race.
Heaven and Hell are right here on earth , depending on your sin life, so you will always be with the Lord.
The Kingdom of Heaven will come down to Earth one day. Hell is not on earth. If one is a sinner, he will be condemned to the Lake of Fire, where God's presence is not!
What kind of bible do you read?
Does your Bible say,"all sinners are condemned to the Lake of Fire"?
In Genesis 15:13, God tells Abraham, "Know that your descendents are going to be enslaved in a land they don't know," which of course ends up being Egypt.
This was a punishment to Abraham for going to Egypt against God's wishes.
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 19:48:03
You proved what I said, we are not appointed to die. It is true God can take us for whatever reason, but there isn't a point in time where we will die because it is preordained.
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die.
Hebrews 9:27-28And just as surely as it is appointed for all men to die and after that pass to their judgment, so it is certain that Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many and after that, to those who look for him, he will appear a second time, not this time to deal with sin, but to bring them to full salvation.
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 20:04:51
In Genesis 15:13, God tells Abraham, "Know that your descendents are going to be enslaved in a land they don't know," which of course ends up being Egypt.
This was a punishment to Abraham for going to Egypt against God's wishes.
Nowhere does God either state or imply that this is a punishment for anything. It is simply a declaration of what will happen. God is not shy about telling people what they've done wrong or what a punishment is for. If He was punishing Abram He would have said so.
Once again, we need to look at the context.
: Genesis 15
7 And he said to him, "I am the Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess." 8 But he said, "O Lord God, how am I to know that I shall possess it?" 9 He said to him, "Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon." 10 And he brought him all these, cut them in half, and laid each half over against the other. But he did not cut the birds in half. 11 And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12 As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then the Lord said to Abram, "Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."
God's statement in vs.13 and following is a direct response to Abram's question in vs. 8, and follows the statement that Abram believed God and He counted it as righteousness.
Let's not read things into Scripture.
To paraphrase an ancient, Middle-Eastern rabbi: "Crap happens."
That's why bad things happen to good people.
: HRoberson Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 23:17:58
To paraphrase an ancient, Middle-Eastern rabbi: "Crap happens."
That's why bad things happen to good people.
Nothing in life is luck of the draw or coincidence... Read Deuteronomy 28 or Leviticus 26
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
: Nevertheless Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 22:56:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 20:04:51
In Genesis 15:13, God tells Abraham, "Know that your descendents are going to be enslaved in a land they don't know," which of course ends up being Egypt.
This was a punishment to Abraham for going to Egypt against God's wishes.
Nowhere does God either state or imply that this is a punishment for anything. It is simply a declaration of what will happen. God is not shy about telling people what they've done wrong or what a punishment is for. If He was punishing Abram He would have said so.
Once again, we need to look at the context.
: Genesis 15
7 And he said to him, "I am the Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess." 8 But he said, "O Lord God, how am I to know that I shall possess it?" 9 He said to him, "Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon." 10 And he brought him all these, cut them in half, and laid each half over against the other. But he did not cut the birds in half. 11 And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12 As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then the Lord said to Abram, "Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."
God's statement in vs.13 and following is a direct response to Abram's question in vs. 8, and follows the statement that Abram believed God and He counted it as righteousness.
Let's not read things into Scripture.
When Abraham left Egypt, he brought Hagar and changed the history of the world.
Everything we do has a forever consequence, good or bad.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:24:11
: Nevertheless Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 22:56:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 20:04:51
In Genesis 15:13, God tells Abraham, "Know that your descendents are going to be enslaved in a land they don't know," which of course ends up being Egypt.
This was a punishment to Abraham for going to Egypt against God's wishes.
Nowhere does God either state or imply that this is a punishment for anything. It is simply a declaration of what will happen. God is not shy about telling people what they've done wrong or what a punishment is for. If He was punishing Abram He would have said so.
Once again, we need to look at the context.
: Genesis 15
7 And he said to him, "I am the Lord who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess." 8 But he said, "O Lord God, how am I to know that I shall possess it?" 9 He said to him, "Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtledove, and a young pigeon." 10 And he brought him all these, cut them in half, and laid each half over against the other. But he did not cut the birds in half. 11 And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
12 As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. 13 Then the Lord said to Abram, "Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. 14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age. 16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."
God's statement in vs.13 and following is a direct response to Abram's question in vs. 8, and follows the statement that Abram believed God and He counted it as righteousness.
Let's not read things into Scripture.
When Abraham left Egypt, he brought Hagar and changed the history of the world.
Everything we do has a forever consequence, good or bad.
that doesn't change the fact that you are misapplying scripture (using it out of context) to make ridiculous claims
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:24:11
Everything we do has a forever consequence, good or bad.
Finally! A true statement!
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
It says nothing of the kind.
: Lamentations 3 (ESV)
31 For the Lord will not
cast off forever,
32 but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion
according to the abundance of his steadfast love;
33 for he does not afflict from his heart
or grieve the children of men.
: Lamentations 3 (NLT)
31 For no one is abandoned
by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he also shows compassion
because of the greatness of his unfailing love.
33 For he does not enjoy hurting people
or causing them sorrow.
Funguy, when are you going to quit making these wildly inaccurate statements?
: Nevertheless Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:54:35
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
It says nothing of the kind.
: Lamentations 3 (ESV)
31 For the Lord will not
cast off forever,
32 but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion
according to the abundance of his steadfast love;
33 for he does not afflict from his heart
or grieve the children of men.
: Lamentations 3 (NLT)
31 For no one is abandoned
by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he also shows compassion
because of the greatness of his unfailing love.
33 For he does not enjoy hurting people
or causing them sorrow.
Funguy, when are you going to quit making these wildly inaccurate statements?
The whole Book of Lamintations is about God's punishment for sin.
Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land and caused the people to wander 40 years, because of his unbelief.
His family was never used by God again.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 09:24:40
The whole Book of Lamintations is about God's punishment for sin.
These are two very different statements, and the second does not validate the first.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 09:24:40
Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land and caused the people to wander 40 years, because of his unbelief.
His family was never used by God again.
Three more wildly inaccurate statements.
Moses was denied entry into the promised land for disrespect,(not treatling God as holy) not unbelief.
: Deut 32
48 That very day the Lord spoke to Moses, 49 "Go up this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, opposite Jericho, and view the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the people of Israel for a possession. 50 And die on the mountain which you go up, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died in Mount Hor and was gathered to his people, 51 because you broke faith with me in the midst of the people of Israel at the waters of Meribah-kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin, and because you did not treat me as holy in the midst of the people of Israel. 52 For you shall see the land before you, but you shall not go there, into the land that I am giving to the people of Israel."
Moses did not cause the people to wander for 40 years, that was their own fault.
: Numbers 14
20 Then the Lord said, "I have pardoned, according to your word. 21 But truly, as I live, and as all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, 22 none of the men who have seen my glory and my signs that I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and yet have put me to the test these ten times and have not obeyed my voice, 23 shall see the land that I swore to give to their fathers. And none of those who despised me shall see it.
Moses' family was used by God. Moses' nephews (Aaron's sons) were the first high priests. The two eldest, Nadab & Abihu, God used mightily to teach the Israelites respect for the Law. (See Numbers 26)
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
: HRoberson Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 23:17:58
To paraphrase an ancient, Middle-Eastern rabbi: "Crap happens."
That's why bad things happen to good people.
Nothing in life is luck of the draw or coincidence... Read Deuteronomy 28 or Leviticus 26
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
Yeah well, I got my information from the guy that inspired those passages. You'd think he'd know better, huh?
Question: Why do bad things happen to good people?
Answer: Proximity to bad people.
: HRoberson Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 12:59:15
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
: HRoberson Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 23:17:58
To paraphrase an ancient, Middle-Eastern rabbi: "Crap happens."
That's why bad things happen to good people.
Nothing in life is luck of the draw or coincidence... Read Deuteronomy 28 or Leviticus 26
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
Yeah well, I got my information from the guy that inspired those passages. You'd think he'd know better, huh?
So, you are saying, you don't need to read the Bible because Jesus tells you everything you need to know?
How does Jesus interpret Exodus 34:7 or does He tell you to use white-out?
God thought this message was so important, He repeated it 5 times.
: Nevertheless Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 12:30:40
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 09:24:40
The whole Book of Lamintations is about God's punishment for sin.
These are two very different statements, and the second does not validate the first.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 09:24:40
Moses was not allowed into the Promised Land and caused the people to wander 40 years, because of his unbelief.
His family was never used by God again.
Three more wildly inaccurate statements.
Moses was denied entry into the promised land for disrespect,(not treatling God as holy) not unbelief.
: Deut 32
48 That very day the Lord spoke to Moses, 49 "Go up this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, opposite Jericho, and view the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the people of Israel for a possession. 50 And die on the mountain which you go up, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died in Mount Hor and was gathered to his people, 51 because you broke faith with me in the midst of the people of Israel at the waters of Meribah-kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin, and because you did not treat me as holy in the midst of the people of Israel. 52 For you shall see the land before you, but you shall not go there, into the land that I am giving to the people of Israel."
Moses did not cause the people to wander for 40 years, that was their own fault.
: Numbers 14
20 Then the Lord said, "I have pardoned, according to your word. 21 But truly, as I live, and as all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, 22 none of the men who have seen my glory and my signs that I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and yet have put me to the test these ten times and have not obeyed my voice, 23 shall see the land that I swore to give to their fathers. And none of those who despised me shall see it.
Moses' family was used by God. Moses' nephews (Aaron's sons) were the first high priests. The two eldest, Nadab & Abihu, God used mightily to teach the Israelites respect for the Law. (See Numbers 26)
Moses knew 40 years before the rock hitting he wasn't going. Numbers 14:30
Deuteronomy 1: 19- 45 Moses tried to pass the blame to others.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:14:01
Moses knew 40 years before the rock hitting he wasn't going. Numbers 14:30
Numbers 14 was not 40 years before Moses hit the rock. 40 years before that error Moses was "getting out of Dodge" because he had murdered an Egyptian.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:14:01
Deuteronomy 1: 19- 45 Moses tried to pass the blame to others.
No, he is simply giving a factual account of the events that occurred. Moses actually pleaded with God for the people when they refused to enter the land God had promised. You referred to Numbers 14, maybe you should go back and read what it says.
: Nevertheless Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:58:50
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:14:01
Moses knew 40 years before the rock hitting he wasn't going. Numbers 14:30
Numbers 14 was not 40 years before Moses hit the rock. 40 years before that error Moses was "getting out of Dodge" because he had murdered an Egyptian.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:14:01
Deuteronomy 1: 19- 45 Moses tried to pass the blame to others.
No, he is simply giving a factual account of the events that occurred. Moses actually pleaded with God for the people when they refused to enter the land God had promised. You referred to Numbers 14, maybe you should go back and read what it says.
Moses hit the miracle rock which followed them all the time they traveled, instead of speaking to it after Miriam died...Numbers 20:11
They had to wander 40 years as punishment, because it was 40 days that Moses sent spies, instead of going directly into Israel.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:05:24
: HRoberson Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 12:59:15
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
: HRoberson Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 23:17:58
To paraphrase an ancient, Middle-Eastern rabbi: "Crap happens."
That's why bad things happen to good people.
Nothing in life is luck of the draw or coincidence... Read Deuteronomy 28 or Leviticus 26
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
Yeah well, I got my information from the guy that inspired those passages. You'd think he'd know better, huh?
So, you are saying, you don't need to read the Bible because Jesus tells you everything you need to know?
How does Jesus interpret Exodus 34:7 or does He tell you to use white-out?
God thought this message was so important, He repeated it 5 times.
have you read the NT? I don't mean your favorite proof texts; I mean the whole shebang.
: HRoberson Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 23:55:36
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 15:05:24
: HRoberson Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 12:59:15
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 08, 2012 - 08:19:53
: HRoberson Tue Aug 07, 2012 - 23:17:58
To paraphrase an ancient, Middle-Eastern rabbi: "Crap happens."
That's why bad things happen to good people.
Nothing in life is luck of the draw or coincidence... Read Deuteronomy 28 or Leviticus 26
Lamintations 3:32-33 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment for sin.
Yeah well, I got my information from the guy that inspired those passages. You'd think he'd know better, huh?
So, you are saying, you don't need to read the Bible because Jesus tells you everything you need to know?
How does Jesus interpret Exodus 34:7 or does He tell you to use white-out?
God thought this message was so important, He repeated it 5 times.
have you read the NT? I don't mean your favorite proof texts; I mean the whole shebang.
I have and they both tell about the consequences of sin...
In the Bible disability is viewed as a disease (The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible: 1962; Encyclopaedia Judaica: 1972). The most common diseases mentioned in the Bible are blindness, deafness, dumbness, leprosy, and paralysis. Visual impairment is the most common form of physical disability in antiquity. Aside from people like Isaac (Gen. 27:1), Jacob (Gen. 48:10), Eli (1 Sam 3:2 and 4:15), and Ahijah the Shilomite (1Kings 14:4), whose eyesight failed in old age, natural causes of disability are not mentioned in the Bible. Disability is attributed to God. The general view of the Old Testament writers is that God brings disability as punishment for transgressions for sin or as an expression of God's wrath for people's disobedience. It is seen as a curse and as a result of unbelief and ignorance (Jewish Encyclopaedia, 1920; The Talmud of Jerusalem, 1956; and Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1972).
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance. In Leviticus 26:14-16, as one of the punishments for Israel's disobedience is expressed in the following way: "I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life." Samson also sinned against the Lord through his eyes; as it is written: "I have seen a Philistine woman in Timnah; now get her for me as my wife" (Judges 14:2). He was therefore punished through his eyes: "Then the Philistines seized him, gorged out his eyes" (Judges 16:21). Prov. 30:17 warns that the eyes, which are disrespectful to parents, will be plucked out by birds of prey.
The blindness of the wicked men of Sodom (Wisdom 2:21) and of Elymas, the magician who obstructed the work of Paul in Cyprus (Acts 13:4-12), are specifically attributed to divine punishment. The ancient nations regarded visual impairment as the lowest degradation that could be inflicted upon humans and, by extension, to a nation. The Deuteronomist suggests that visual impairment is a curse for disobeying the commandment of God. Israel was threatened for breaking the covenant.
The Lord will inflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of the mind. At midday, you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything that you do, day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you (Deut. 28:28-29).
Two cases of paralysis further confirm that God is the cause of disability. The sudden paralysis that afflicted King Jeroboam (1 Kings 13:4) attests to this. In Zechariah 11:17, a curse is invoked upon the "negligent shepherd." God's judgment is severe; Jeroboam's arm shrivels up completely. Zechariah says: "Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded."
Similarly, in 2 Chron. 26:16-23, we read the story of King Uzziah who, because of his unfaithfulness to God, was struck by leprosy "because the Lord had afflicted him" (Vs 20). Uzziah lived in a separate house and was excluded from the temple of the Lord because PWD were not allowed into the temple. They were considered unclean. Further examples that portray disability as a curse can be found in Zephaniah 1:17 and Zechariah 11:17. In Zephaniah, God promises to bring distress on the people because they have sinned against Him: "They will walk like blind men." God strikes his servant's assailants with blinding flashes (Gen. 19:11; 2 Kings 6:18-20 Acts 13:10-12) or with permanent blindness (Zech. 12:4; Ps 69:23) in order to protect his servants (see also Psalms 6:7 and 69:3).
The New Testament also supports the link between sin and disability. This link is well illustrated in John 9:1-3. The disciples anticipated a connection between disability and sin with the question: "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" This question implies that disability was the punishment meant for some unspecified sin. When Jesus healed the physically impaired man who lay by the pool of Bethesda, He said to him: "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse will happen to you" (Jn. 5:14). This clearly indicates that Jesus thought there was a connection between the man's disability and some sin. In the portico lay a multitude of PWD and this comment applied to them as well (Jn. 5:3).
Similarly, when Jesus healed the paralytic man lowered through the roof (Mk. 2:1-12), Jesus said to him: "Son, your sins are forgiven" (Vs 5), and then continued with the physical healing of the man. The implication of this comment is that it was necessary first to get the sin out of the way before the disability could be healed. According to Grant (1997:77), the healing stories of Jesus "have also served as proof of the moral imperfection of people with disabilities."
The conflation between sin and disability confirms the religious model of disability, which views disability as a punishment inflicted upon an individual or family by God as a result of sin. Consequently, disability stigmatizes not only the individual but the whole family. The implication is the exclusion of PWD from the social, economic, political, and spiritual spheres of society.
The metaphoric use of disability in the Bible further reinforces the view linking disability with disobedience to God. Israel's disobedience is compared with disability. In Isaiah 43:8 the children of Israel are asked to lead out those who have eyes but are blind, who have ears but are deaf. In Isaiah 42:18-20, Israel is compared to the blind and the deaf:
Hear, you deaf; look you blind, and see! Who is blind but my servant, and deaf like the messenger I send? Who is blind like the one committed to me, blind like the servant of the Lord? You have seen many things, but have paid no attention: your ears are open, but you hear nothing.
Hearing impairment symbolizes spiritual stubbornness or wilful refusal to hear and obey the word of God (Jer. 5:21; Ez. 12:2). Israel is portrayed as a servant with ears, but not hearing and obeying her Lord (Is 42:18-20). The prophet is pictured as calling the Israelites to hear the word of God because their sins had deafened their ears (Is 43:8). The Israelites in turn are pictured standing with their hands over their ears, refusing to hear the prophets even while judgment falls on them (Zech. 7:11-14). They are deaf like the idols they serve (Deut. 4:28; Ps 115:4-8; Rev. 9:20; The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery, 1998).
Throughout the Old Testament, visual impairment is viewed as a symbol of ignorance, sin, and unbelief. It refers to the lack of intellectual or moral understanding (Is 29:9-10, 18). Judges are warned that bribes or gifts blind the eyes of the discerning (Exodus 23:8). Blindness is used to describe those who dwell in the darkness of prison or captivity (Is. 42:7, 16-19; 43:8; 49:9; Ps 146:7-8). The Psalmist complains that since God has punished him, the light of his eyes has gone from him (Ps.38: 10) and he hopes that his enemies will be cursed with blindness (Ps. 69:23).
Those who have been forsaken by God complain that they grope "like those who have no eyes" (Is. 59:10), and when the day of the Lord comes, God will bring blindness upon people, "that they shall walk like the blind" (Zeph. 1:17). The most significant passage showing the metaphorical use of disability is the story of the vision of Isaiah in the temple:
Go and say to these people: "keep listening but do not comprehend. Keep looking, but do not understand. Make the mind of this people dull, and stop their ears, and shut their eyes, so that they may not look with their eyes, and listen with their ears, and comprehend with their minds, and turn and be healed."(Is. 6:9-10)
Isaiah 44:8-10 sounds a warning to all who speak up for those who make idols that they are blind and ignorant. In Isaiah 56:10, blindness refers to negligence: "Israel's watchmen are blind, they all lack knowledge; they are all mute dogs; they cannot bark, they lie around and dream, they love to sleep." Isaiah is told that his mission is to besmear the eyes of Israel so that it will not "see" and repent and be healed (6:10).
The legacy of blindness as a punishment from God or a metaphor for sin and disbelief continues in the New Testament. In general, the gospels show Jesus as sensitive and caring to PWD. They are the main focus of the healing ministry of Jesus (Mk 8:22-26; 10:46-52). At the same time, however, the negative images of disability in the Gospels are also significant. In the Gospel of John, sight and light are the symbols of truth while darkness and blindness are symbols of sin and unbelief. In John 9:41, Jesus responds to the continued questioning of the Pharisees with regard to the healing of a visually impaired person as follows: "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin."
According to Hull (2000), Jesus uses the expression "blind" as a term of abuse in the Gospel of Matthew. When Jesus attacks certain groups of people, he describes them as "blind guides" (Matt.23: 16, 24), "blind fools" (v.17), and "you blind Pharisees" (Vs.26). These verses give a disparaging image of blindness. Jesus called sighted people blind fools and teaches that the blind cannot lead the blind because they will both fall into a ditch. The metaphoric use of disability as a symbol of sin, unbelief, and ignorance further highlights the concept of disability as one that is viewed from a moral perspective.
Physical disability and the perfection of the body is another theme found in the Bible. In the very centre of this theology is the teaching found in the book of Leviticus, which sets forth the requirements for ministry. Physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron. In addition, the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
Speak to Aaron, saying, none of your offspring throughout their generation who has a blemish may approach to offer the bread of his God. For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, or a hunchback or a dwarf or a man with a defect in his sight, or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles. No man of the offspring of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to offer the Lord's food offering; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. He may eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy and of the holy things, but he shall not go through the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries, for I am the Lord who sanctifies them (Leviticus 21:16-23).
The word "blemish" originally meant a "black spot." It later came to denote anything abnormal or deviating from a given standard, whether physical, moral, or ritualistic. The word "blemish" came to be used to describe the various abnormalities that disqualify one from priesthood (The Jewish Encyclopaedia, 1920).
The interpretation of this Leviticus text can be traced to the conflation between physical disability, perfection of the body, and moral impurity (Encyclopaedia Judaica: 1972). According to Eiesland (1994), the theological meaning of perfection has historically included physical flawlessness, and many religious orientations make a direct connection between physical perfection and spiritual beauty. Accordingly, PWD lack perfection and embody "un-wholeness." Wenham (1981:292 reference missing in Works Cited) also notes: "The idea emerges clearly that holiness finds physical expression in wholeness and normality." Physical disability is an obvious evidence of a person's sin and a sign of punishment from God. In other words, the perfection of the body is a symbol of the perfection of the soul (Melcher, 1998).
PWD are also viewed as unworthy in society. In 2 Sam 19:24-28, King David's servant, Ziba, bars Mephibosheth, who was physically impaired, from accompanying David on a trip. He was not worthy to be with the King because of his disability. Mephibosheth himself feels unworthy. In vs. 26, Mephibosheth says: "My Lord the King, since I your servant am lame." In addition, in Daniel 1:3-4, PWD are regarded as worthless. The king ordered Aphpenazi, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility to be trained in the king's service. Vs 4 particularly emphasizes that the men should be handsome and without any physical defect. This view further reinforces the earlier prejudice, in which physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron.
[Edited to fix coding]
You might want to do a search for a "tower" story.
That rabbi is pretty clear - crap happens to everybody.
: HRoberson Thu Aug 09, 2012 - 23:02:53
You might want to do a search for a "tower" story.
That rabbi is pretty clear - crap happens to everybody.
It only happens for what we deserve.
Some are born without arms and legs and others have beautiful lives, that is not a coincidence.
2 CORINTHIANS 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat
of Christ, that each one may receive what is
due him for the things done while in the body,
whether good or bad."
In my twenties, I worked for several years at our State's main psychiatric hospital. I've actually heard stranger beleifs here than I ever did there.
: Willie T Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 08:53:05
In my twenties, I worked for several years at our State's main psychiatric hospital. I've actually heard stranger beleifs here than I ever did there.
It is easier to criticize than to give scripture to prove me wrong?
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 15:21:46
: Willie T Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 08:53:05
In my twenties, I worked for several years at our State's main psychiatric hospital. I've actually heard stranger beleifs here than I ever did there.
It is easier to criticize than to give scripture to prove me wrong?
Have you read the tower story?
Have you read, "it rains on the just and the unjust?"
I'm not even sure what you're getting at with the different kinds of births; I don't know that "coincidence" is even applicable to the discussion.
Some people are born with blue eyes and some with green eyes. Is that a coincidence?
: HRoberson Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 18:54:32
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 15:21:46
: Willie T Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 08:53:05
In my twenties, I worked for several years at our State's main psychiatric hospital. I've actually heard stranger beleifs here than I ever did there.
It is easier to criticize than to give scripture to prove me wrong?
Have you read the tower story?
Have you read, "it rains on the just and the unjust?"
I'm not even sure what you're getting at with the different kinds of births; I don't know that "coincidence" is even applicable to the discussion.
Some people are born with blue eyes and some with green eyes. Is that a coincidence?
I haven't heard of either book, are they Christian authors?
Aren't rabbis considered the anti-Christ?
Jesus said not one sparrow can fall to the ground without God knowing...Matt 10:29
God told Jeremiah, He knew him in his mother's womb.
Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:21:14
Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
Truly, you must refrain from posting such incendiary ideas.
Have you ever heard of Mephibosheth? Read
2 Samuel 9. Then tell us how God feels about the handicapped---and that isn't even the New Testament, which relates even more how WE ARE ALL HANDICAPPED by birth and destined for hellfire, EXCEPT FOR those who put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:21:14
: HRoberson Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 18:54:32
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 15:21:46
: Willie T Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 08:53:05
In my twenties, I worked for several years at our State's main psychiatric hospital. I've actually heard stranger beleifs here than I ever did there.
It is easier to criticize than to give scripture to prove me wrong?
Have you read the tower story?
Have you read, "it rains on the just and the unjust?"
I'm not even sure what you're getting at with the different kinds of births; I don't know that "coincidence" is even applicable to the discussion.
Some people are born with blue eyes and some with green eyes. Is that a coincidence?
I haven't heard of either book, are they Christian authors?
Aren't rabbis considered the anti-Christ?
Jesus said not one sparrow can fall to the ground without God knowing...Matt 10:29
God told Jeremiah, He knew him in his mother's womb.
Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
Yes, the authors are Christian. You might want to Google them.
: HRoberson Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 21:24:44
Yes, the authors are Christian. You might want to Google them.
HR, I was sorely tempted to take pity on him, but then I read comments like this
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:21:14Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
and I just say, nah.....
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:38:44
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:21:14
Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
Truly, you must refrain from posting such incendiary ideas.
Have you ever heard of Mephibosheth? Read 2 Samuel 9. Then tell us how God feels about the handicapped---and that isn't even the New Testament, which relates even more how WE ARE ALL HANDICAPPED by birth and destined for hellfire, EXCEPT FOR those who put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
Because God never approved of Israel having a King, I don't think God favored Mephibosheth. I think even David had second thoughts when he found out Mephibosheth wanted to take back the kingdom,..2 Samuel 16:3
: Nevertheless Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 21:36:37
: HRoberson Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 21:24:44
Yes, the authors are Christian. You might want to Google them.
HR, I was sorely tempted to take pity on him, but then I read comments like this
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:21:14Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
and I just say, nah.....
I'm thinking he's just playing with us; which is fine by me.
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 21:48:32
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:38:44
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 10, 2012 - 20:21:14
Those born with handicaps are being punished...Leviticus 21:16-23
Truly, you must refrain from posting such incendiary ideas.
Have you ever heard of Mephibosheth? Read 2 Samuel 9. Then tell us how God feels about the handicapped---and that isn't even the New Testament, which relates even more how WE ARE ALL HANDICAPPED by birth and destined for hellfire, EXCEPT FOR those who put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
Because God never approved of Israel having a King, I don't think God favored Mephibosheth. I think even David had second thoughts when he found out Mephibosheth wanted to take back the kingdom,..2 Samuel 16:3
Do you not perceive the message of Mephibosheth? God favours US! We are ALL handicapped, yet He seeks us out, brings us home, and because of our being in His family, we are welcomed to partake at His King's table---forever!
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:10:06
Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7
Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14
Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
WOE unto the inhabiters of the earth!!!
In Daniel 1:3-4, people with disabilities are regarded as worthless. The king ordered Aphpenazi, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility to be trained in the king's service. Vs 4 particularly emphasizes that the men should be handsome and without any physical defect. This view further reinforces the earlier prejudice, in which physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron.
The Bible teaches that God is not only sovereign in controlling all things at all times, but is actually programming and guiding events in accordance with His eternal purposes. Ephesians 1:11 says that "He works all things after the counsel of His will." (See also Psalm 33:11 and Isaiah 43:13.)
I've answered the question in the OP at length in another thread just a couple days ago.
Shameless plug to that thread:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/ (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/)
Jarrod
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 11, 2012 - 17:55:31
In Daniel 1:3-4, people with disabilities are regarded as worthless. The king ordered Aphpenazi, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility to be trained in the king's service. Vs 4 particularly emphasizes that the men should be handsome and without any physical defect. This view further reinforces the earlier prejudice, in which physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron.
It does
not call them worthless. What a way to read the word and
hateful way to look at those who are less fortunate than you who has apparently perfect health. ::frown:: It just says what the specifications were for the job of being qualified to serve in the king's palace. And, it wasn't God making the qualifications, it was the king
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 11:55:44
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 11, 2012 - 17:55:31
In Daniel 1:3-4, people with disabilities are regarded as worthless. The king ordered Aphpenazi, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility to be trained in the king's service. Vs 4 particularly emphasizes that the men should be handsome and without any physical defect. This view further reinforces the earlier prejudice, in which physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron.
It does not call them worthless. What a way to read the word and hateful way to look at those who are less fortunate than you who has apparently perfect health. ::frown:: It just says what the specifications were for the job of being qualified to serve in the king's palace. And, it wasn't God making the qualifications, it was the king
The King was just quoting God on qualifications to be a Priest...Leviticus 21:16-23...
16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy. '"
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:21:11
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 11:55:44
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 11, 2012 - 17:55:31
In Daniel 1:3-4, people with disabilities are regarded as worthless. The king ordered Aphpenazi, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility to be trained in the king's service. Vs 4 particularly emphasizes that the men should be handsome and without any physical defect. This view further reinforces the earlier prejudice, in which physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron.
It does not call them worthless. What a way to read the word and hateful way to look at those who are less fortunate than you who has apparently perfect health. ::frown:: It just says what the specifications were for the job of being qualified to serve in the king's palace. And, it wasn't God making the qualifications, it was the king
The King was just quoting God on qualifications to be a Priest...Leviticus 21:16-23...
16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy. '"
where in there does it say worthless?
: Wycliffes_Shillelagh Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 11:49:59
I've answered the question in the OP at length in another thread just a couple days ago.
Shameless plug to that thread:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/ (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/)
Jarrod
You say that sometimes bad that is happening spills over unto you.
Bible says God knows when a sparrow falls to the ground.
If bad is happening, it is because you deserve it. No coincidences in life. You reap what you sow.
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:25:18
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:21:11
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 11:55:44
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 11, 2012 - 17:55:31
In Daniel 1:3-4, people with disabilities are regarded as worthless. The king ordered Aphpenazi, chief of his court officials, to bring in some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility to be trained in the king's service. Vs 4 particularly emphasizes that the men should be handsome and without any physical defect. This view further reinforces the earlier prejudice, in which physical imperfection is seen as an impediment to the exercise of the priestly office for the descendant of Aaron.
It does not call them worthless. What a way to read the word and hateful way to look at those who are less fortunate than you who has apparently perfect health. ::frown:: It just says what the specifications were for the job of being qualified to serve in the king's palace. And, it wasn't God making the qualifications, it was the king
The King was just quoting God on qualifications to be a Priest...Leviticus 21:16-23...
16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the food offerings to the Lord. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the Lord, who makes them holy. '"
We all feel for anyone who is handicaped and pray, there but for the grace of God, go I.
We can pick the sin, but we cannot pick the consequences.
Being handicaped is not the only form of punishment from God. Some grow up in horrible homes or countries, etc.
where in there does it say worthless?
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
We can pick the sin, but we cannot pick the consequences.
So, if God sees fit to lift His hand of protection over you and you are in an accident that causes you to become paralyzed...you deserved it and are being punished?
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
Being handicaped is not the only form of punishment from God. Some grow up in horrible homes or countries, etc.
it.is.not!!!! a punishment!
John 9:2-3 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:56:25
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
We can pick the sin, but we cannot pick the consequences.
So, if God sees fit to lift His hand of protection over you and you are in an accident that causes you to become paralyzed...you deserved it and are being punished?
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
Being handicaped is not the only form of punishment from God. Some grow up in horrible homes or countries, etc.
it.is.not!!!! a punishment!
John 9:2-3 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
John 5:14 Jesus said to the man He had healed, don't sin again or next time your punishment will be worse.
John 5:14
New International Version (NIV)
14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."
HERE (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%205:14&version=NIV;KJV;MSG;DARBY;ESV) are a few more translations of the same verse.
It's not cool to try to make the Bible say what you want it to say.
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:00:50
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:56:25
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
We can pick the sin, but we cannot pick the consequences.
So, if God sees fit to lift His hand of protection over you and you are in an accident that causes you to become paralyzed...you deserved it and are being punished?
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
Being handicaped is not the only form of punishment from God. Some grow up in horrible homes or countries, etc.
it.is.not!!!! a punishment!
John 9:2-3 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
John 5:14 Jesus said to the man He had healed, don't sin again or next time your punishment will be worse.
John 5:14 NAS Afterward Jesus *found him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you."
This does not say that people born with handicaps are being punished. This implies that the man's injuries were because of a sin issue in his life...and if he wanted to remain healed, he had to give up the addiction to the sin that caused the injury.
and for all of us, the warning remains...because the thing worse than handicaps, is eternity lost without Christ.
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:10:46
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:00:50
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:56:25
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
We can pick the sin, but we cannot pick the consequences.
So, if God sees fit to lift His hand of protection over you and you are in an accident that causes you to become paralyzed...you deserved it and are being punished?
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:37:17
Being handicaped is not the only form of punishment from God. Some grow up in horrible homes or countries, etc.
it.is.not!!!! a punishment!
John 9:2-3 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
John 5:14 Jesus said to the man He had healed, don't sin again or next time your punishment will be worse.
John 5:14 NAS Afterward Jesus *found him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you."
This does not say that people born with handicaps are being punished. This implies that the man's injuries were because of a sin issue in his life...and if he wanted to remain healed, he had to give up the addiction to the sin that caused the injury.
and for all of us, the warning remains...because the thing worse than handicaps, is eternity lost without Christ.
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance. In Leviticus 26:14-16, as one of the punishments for Israel's disobedience is expressed in the following way: "I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life." Samson also sinned against the Lord through his eyes; as it is written: "I have seen a Philistine woman in Timnah; now get her for me as my wife" (Judges 14:2). He was therefore punished through his eyes: "Then the Philistines seized him, gorged out his eyes" (Judges 16:21). Prov. 30:17 warns that the eyes, which are disrespectful to parents, will be plucked out by birds of prey.
The blindness of the wicked men of Sodom (Wisdom 2:21) and of Elymas, the magician who obstructed the work of Paul in Cyprus (Acts 13:4-12), are specifically attributed to divine punishment. The ancient nations regarded visual impairment as the lowest degradation that could be inflicted upon humans and, by extension, to a nation. The Deuteronomist suggests that visual impairment is a curse for disobeying the commandment of God. Israel was threatened for breaking the covenant.
The Lord will inflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of the mind. At midday, you will grope about like a blind man in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything that you do, day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you (Deut. 28:28-29).
Two cases of paralysis further confirm that God is the cause of disability. The sudden paralysis that afflicted King Jeroboam (1 Kings 13:4) attests to this. In Zechariah 11:17, a curse is invoked upon the "negligent shepherd." God's judgment is severe; Jeroboam's arm shrivels up completely. Zechariah says: "Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded."
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities
can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those
born with infirmaries, or those who
become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are
NOT being punished!
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:30:07
: Wycliffes_Shillelagh Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 11:49:59
I've answered the question in the OP at length in another thread just a couple days ago.
Shameless plug to that thread:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/ (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/)
Jarrod
You say that sometimes bad that is happening spills over unto you.
Bible says God knows when a sparrow falls to the ground.
If bad is happening, it is because you deserve it. No coincidences in life. You reap what you sow.
That is an unbiblical, non-Christian view.
To God, His people never deserve misfortune. We are not being punished when we find ourselves in difficult situations. We do reap what we sow, and we also experience the fallenness of the world we live in. However, we can count on God;s word that tells us He only has our GOOD in mind and will NEVER harm us.
Jeremiah 29:11For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:35:08
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 14:30:07
: Wycliffes_Shillelagh Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 11:49:59
I've answered the question in the OP at length in another thread just a couple days ago.
Shameless plug to that thread:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/ (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/a-theology-of-the-obvious/)
Jarrod
You say that sometimes bad that is happening spills over unto you.
Bible says God knows when a sparrow falls to the ground.
If bad is happening, it is because you deserve it. No coincidences in life. You reap what you sow.
That is an unbiblical, non-Christian view.
To God, His people never deserve misfortune. We are not being punished when we find ourselves in difficult situations. We do reap what we sow, and we also experience the fallenness of the world we live in. However, we can count on God;s word that tells us He only has our GOOD in mind and will NEVER harm us.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Deuteronomy 28
However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:
16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
No...anyone who was disabled was not a priest. ANYONE can serve/obey/please God.
Here is the verse in contex
Exodus 34: 6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, "The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation."
8 Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshiped. 9 "Lord," he said, "if I have found favor in your eyes, then let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wickedness and our sin, and take us as your inheritance."
10 Then the Lord said: "I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you.
Notice what happens when Moses asks for forgiveness for any that are stiff necked after God speaks of punishment...He forgives and makes an amazing covenant with the people.
Generational sins are passed on through those who just coast through life, not recognising the sin...but for those who stand and say "God forgive the stiff necked generation, forgive those that come from it, cleans us and make us new" God will do just that.
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:07:17
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
He carried on with His plan and punished Jesus instead. Come out of law and into grace.
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:13:09
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:07:17
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
He carried on with His plan and punished Jesus instead. Come out of law and into grace.
Exactly!
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:13:09
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:07:17
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
He carried on with His plan and punished Jesus instead. Come out of law and into grace.
If Jesus took the punishment, why did He tell those He helped, not to sin again? John 8:11
If you love Me, you will keep the commandments.
All men and nations implicitly fall under the covenant since they descended from Adam. This is so whether they know about it or not or whether they acknowledge it or not.
1.God destroyed the world with a flood because of their wickedness.
2. God judged Sodom and Gomorrah because of their abominations.
3. God judged Egypt with plagues because of Pharaoh's and the nations disobedience.
4. God judged the Canaanites, Amorites, Amalekites and the Hittites because of their abominations.
In none of the above cases did God explicitly made a covenant with them, but it was understood that the broke the laws of some covenant. Israel got the Covenant and the laws explicitly codified to them because God was gracious to them. He didn't allow them to wander in ignorance and to be cut off like the heathens.
5. God sent Jonah to Nineveh to urge them to repent. If Jonah didn't go they still would have been judged.
6. God judged Babylon because of their wickedness.
7. God judged the Persians and the Greeks.
8. God judged the Israelites again in A.D 70.
9. Then He went on to judge the Romans.
10. And wicked nations continue to be judged to this day. Just look around.
11. For a closer look, look at wall street where whole companies have been dissolved because of greedy executives. Look at the greedy homeowners who have their houses foreclosed on. Look at the woman who committed abortion that ends up in the psychiatric ward and driven to suicide, look at the homosexual that contracts AIDS, look at the career woman that reached her 40's and is rich, childless and miserable. Look at whole nations in Africa that were committed to communism now totally bankrupt, impoverished and corrupt. Look at the middle east as the wallow in the idolatry of Islam which manifests itself in suicide bombings, honor killings of their own daughters and economic stagnation. Look at China, the godless statist country that imposed 1 child per couple policy leading them to abort subsequent children. Look at how they constantly suffer the blight of earthquakes, and floodings which claim the lives of 1000's, not 100's or scores as the U.S tragedies.
Jesus came to fulfill the law not to abrogate it. His fulfillment came in keeping the law and offering the perfect sacrifice so that the breakers of the law who repent can be justified. To say that God's revealed law and its stipulations and sanctions are no longer binding to individuals and nations is to say that Christ came only to give individuals and nations a license to sin.
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:19:34
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:13:09
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:07:17
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
He carried on with His plan and punished Jesus instead. Come out of law and into grace.
If Jesus took the punishment, why did He tell those He helped, not to sin again? John 8:11
If you love Me, you will keep the commandments.
He was instructing about how to remain in good fellowship with God.
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 20:48:50
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:19:34
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:13:09
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:07:17
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
He carried on with His plan and punished Jesus instead. Come out of law and into grace.
If Jesus took the punishment, why did He tell those He helped, not to sin again? John 8:11
If you love Me, you will keep the commandments.
He was instructing about how to remain in good fellowship with God.
He was also telling them that sin will always be punished...John 5:14
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 20:54:08
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 20:48:50
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:19:34
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:13:09
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:07:17
: Lively Stone Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 17:03:49
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 16:55:08
: MeMyself Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:27:19
: Funguy33 Tue Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21:58
The Bible portrays disability as a curse and as a result of disobedience, unbelief, and ignorance.
Disabilities can come from our actions, and would be a consequence for sinful life choices (Drunk driving, drug abuse). BUT, those born with infirmaries, or those who become disabled at the hands of careless others or because of illness, are NOT being punished!
Exodus 34:7 says we are punished for 3 lifetimes for sins and 1000 lifetimes for blessings.
That was the reason disabled Priests were not allowed to serve God.
That is no longer the case.
What scripture says that Jesus changed His mind?
He carried on with His plan and punished Jesus instead. Come out of law and into grace.
If Jesus took the punishment, why did He tell those He helped, not to sin again? John 8:11
If you love Me, you will keep the commandments.
He was instructing about how to remain in good fellowship with God.
He was also telling them that sin will always be punished...John 5:14
Our sin is already punished, praise the Lord!
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Lets look at the TRUE promise after the warnings
Leviticus 26: 40-45
40 "'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors —their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. 45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.'"
::clappingoverhead::
Its always best to stay under the protective covering of our loving Father, and its such a joy to know that He remembers and keep His promises to forgive and restore when we humbly come to Him for forgiveness!
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:15:48
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
I know...I am sorry. I just ::frustrated:: at the thought of :) over passages that speak of children dying and plagues upon people. ::juggle::
God takes no pleasure in the distruction of the wicked
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:20:52
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:15:48
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
I know...I am sorry. I just ::frustrated:: at the thought of :) over passages that speak of children dying and plagues upon people. ::juggle::
God takes no pleasure in the distruction of the wicked
He just likes to incite things (needs attention, maybe), and you aren't that way at all..... so just let God deal with him.
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:28:57
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:20:52
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:15:48
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
I know...I am sorry. I just ::frustrated:: at the thought of :) over passages that speak of children dying and plagues upon people. ::juggle::
God takes no pleasure in the distruction of the wicked
He just likes to incite things (needs attention, maybe), and you aren't that way at all..... so just let God deal with him.
Explain the New Covenant and how John 5:14 fits into your belief.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
No more, and not MY God, and not His people!
Jeremiah 31:29-30"The people will no longer quote this proverb:
'The parents have eaten sour grapes,
but their children's mouths pucker at the taste.'
All people will die for their own sins—those who eat the sour grapes will be the ones whose mouths will pucker
Galatians 3:13But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:20:52
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:15:48
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
I know...I am sorry. I just ::frustrated:: at the thought of :) over passages that speak of children dying and plagues upon people. ::juggle::
God takes no pleasure in the distruction of the wicked
All of the curses were carried out by God in the Book of Lamentations...
Leviticus 26: 27-32
27 " 'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings.32 I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:43:26
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:20:52
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:15:48
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
I know...I am sorry. I just ::frustrated:: at the thought of :) over passages that speak of children dying and plagues upon people. ::juggle::
God takes no pleasure in the distruction of the wicked
All of the curses were carried out by God in the Book of Lamentations...
Leviticus 26: 27-32
27 " 'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings.32 I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled.
and the rest of the story
Lets look at the TRUE promise after the warnings
Leviticus 26: 40-45
40 "'
But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors —their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42
I will remember my covenant with Jacob
and my covenant with Isaac
and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44
Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them.
I am the Lord their God. 45
But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.'"
Its always best to stay under the protective covering of our loving Father, and its such a joy to know that He remembers and keep His promises to forgive and restore when we humbly come to Him
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:52:12
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:43:26
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:20:52
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:15:48
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 09:05:38
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 08:51:28
Promises of Jesus...
According to Leviticus 26:14-22 :)
"If you continue hostile to me, and will not obey me, I will continue to plague you sevenfold for your sins. I will let loose wild animals against you, and they shall kill your children."
[/quote
a :) ??!!!!! This agenda of yours makes you :) ?
::frown::
Go easy on him. Christians understand there is a new covenant, but this person will have to be taught some of these things.
I know...I am sorry. I just ::frustrated:: at the thought of :) over passages that speak of children dying and plagues upon people. ::juggle::
God takes no pleasure in the distruction of the wicked
All of the curses were carried out by God in the Book of Lamentations...
Leviticus 26: 27-32
27 " 'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings.32 I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled.
and the rest of the story
Lets look at the TRUE promise after the warnings
Leviticus 26: 40-45
40 "'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors —their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. 45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.'"
Its always best to stay under the protective covering of our loving Father, and its such a joy to know that He remembers and keep His promises to forgive and restore when we humbly come to Him
But, when we don't the punishment comes.
That is the reason bad things happen to good people.
God keeps a list of all our sins and blessings for the next time around...Malach 4:16-18
BTW........ There are some of us here who happen to know that Malach 4 only has a half dozen verses. (I loved the shot, though. ) rofl
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:29:35
BTW........ There are some of us here who happen to know that Malach 4 only has a half dozen verses. (I loved the shot, though. ) rofl
In Hebrew texts 4:1-6 is numbered 3:19-24. Not so funny anymore, is it?
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:34:49
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:29:35
BTW........ There are some of us here who happen to know that Malach 4 only has a half dozen verses. (I loved the shot, though. ) rofl
In Hebrew texts 4:1-6 is numbered 3:19-24. Not so funny anymore, is it?
Twice as funny.... Chapter 3?
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 17:57:13
But, when we don't the punishment comes.
That is the reason bad things happen to good people.
Jesus was the BEST person...and really bad things happened to Him. Was He outside of God's will? Is that why He was cruelly treated, mocked, spit upon, beard ripped from His face, beaten, a crown of thorns dug into His head, nailed to and hung on the cross?
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 17:57:13
God keeps a list of all our sins and blessings for the next time around...Malach 4:16-18
Its Malachi 3:16-18
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard.
A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. 17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
...and it doesn't say anything for the next time around, Funguy. We are appointed to die once. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:40:44
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:34:49
: Willie T Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:29:35
BTW........ There are some of us here who happen to know that Malach 4 only has a half dozen verses. (I loved the shot, though. ) rofl
In Hebrew texts 4:1-6 is numbered 3:19-24. Not so funny anymore, is it?
Twice as funny.... Chapter 3?
Can you see it now?
In Hebrew texts 4:1-6 is numbered 3:19-24. ::giggle::
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:42:53
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 17:57:13
But, when we don't the punishment comes.
That is the reason bad things happen to good people.
Jesus was the BEST person...and really bad things happened to Him. Was He outside of God's will? Is that why He was cruelly treated, mocked, spit upon, beard ripped from His face, beaten, a crown of thorns dug into His head, nailed to and hung on the cross?
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 17:57:13
God keeps a list of all our sins and blessings for the next time around...Malach 4:16-18
Its Malachi 3:16-18
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. 17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
...and it doesn't say anything for the next time around, Funguy. We are appointed to die once. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die. Adam and Eve were not appointed to die. They died because of sin.
When Jesus went to the cross with our sins, He was out of the will of God. That is why, God turned Hs back.
Malachi is talking about punishment, next time around. Some are given a worse life because of their bad karma. We are never without some good qualities.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:39:51
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
God doesn't need a spy. He knows the number of the hairs on our head.
We are now in the Kingdom of God. Revelation 22:15 says we will always have sin. So Hell is here on earth for punishment.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die.
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
2 Corinthians 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
When Jesus went to the cross with our sins, He was out of the will of God. That is why, God turned Hs back.
Where is scripture to back this up? THIS is what scripture says
Luke 22: 41-45
41 He (Jesus) withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42"
Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.c
45When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
Malachi is talking about punishment, next time around. Some are given a worse life because of their bad karma. We are never without some good qualities.
karma, reincarnation and Christianity do not mix. You can't dabble.
There is no next time around. Psalm 39:4 Show me, O LORD, my life's end and the number of my days; let me know how fleeting is my life.
You read from a Hebrew Bible? I didn't know that. I know Funnyguy33 doesn't... seems he has trouble with just English.
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:41:11
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die.
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
2 Corinthians 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
When Jesus went to the cross with our sins, He was out of the will of God. That is why, God turned Hs back.
Where is scripture to back this up? THIS is what scripture says
Luke 22: 41-45
41 He (Jesus) withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.c
45When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
Malachi is talking about punishment, next time around. Some are given a worse life because of their bad karma. We are never without some good qualities.
karma, reincarnation and Christianity do not mix. You can't dabble.
There is no next time around. Psalm 39:4 Show me, O LORD, my life's end and the number of my days; let me know how fleeting is my life.
You would need white-out for what Jesus said in Exodus 34:7 ...we pay for our sins for 3 lifetimes and our blessings follow 1000.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Malachi.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/Book-of-Malachi.html)
Purpose of Writing: The Book of Malachi is an oracle: The word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi (1:1). This was God's warning through Malachi to tell the people to turn back to God. As the final book of the Old Testament closes, the pronouncement of God's justice and the promise of His restoration through the coming Messiah is ringing in the ears of the Israelites. Four hundred years of silence ensues, ending with a similar message from God's next prophet, John the Baptist, proclaiming, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near" (Matthew 3:2).
Brief Summary: Malachi wrote the words of the Lord to God's chosen people who had gone astray, especially the priests who had turned from the Lord. Priests were not treating the sacrifices they were to make to God seriously. Animals with blemishes were being sacrificed even though the law demanded animals without defect (Deuteronomy 15:21). The men of Judah were dealing with the wives of their youth treacherously and wondering why God would not accept their sacrifices. Also, people were not tithing as they should have been (Leviticus 27:30, 32). But in spite of the people's sin and turning away from God, Malachi reiterates God's love for His people (Malachi 1:1-5) and His promises of a coming Messenger (Malachi 2:17–3:5).
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:30:27
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:39:51
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
God doesn't need a spy. He knows the number of the hairs on our head.
I received a really big blessing after my grandmother died and I saw other people that treated her wrong lose a lot and go downhill. She told on everyone in my family and we got instant action from God.
We are now in the Kingdom of God. Revelation 22:15 says we will always have sin. So Hell is here on earth for punishment.
I know that, I've been here for 7 or so years already. That's why I have nothing to do with the world, just the new world wide web, it's my only social contact with people other than my family. And my husband already told me when I asked him, one of the first questions I asked him when we got married was what happens after we die and he said we come back through our blood/DNA. It's not like the reincarnation typically taught in some religions with karma, we are still the same people coming through the same families with slight mutations from the environment. He also told me our souls can't be destroyed when we are in the kingdom so there is no more death for us. If I tell you more people are going to get mad but we do also control a lot of things from here too with Christ. That's why I don't vote, I already know what's going to happen or maybe we just get everything we ask for. Either way, we don't have to lift a finger, just say stuff and it happens.
He even told me how we are going to meet again in 200 years.
: Funguy33But, when we don't the punishment comes.
That is the reason bad things happen to good people.
God keeps a list of all our sins and blessings for the next time around...Malach 4:16-18
That is a complete fabrication. There is no such bible reference. There is no "next time around"! Anyone who believes that has been fouled up by a demonic influence.
Bad things happen to everyone---good and bad people---because we live in a fallen world that is Satan's principality.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:39:51
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
No. What kind of information would any human being have that God doesn't already know better?
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:02:34
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:41:11
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die.
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
2 Corinthians 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
When Jesus went to the cross with our sins, He was out of the will of God. That is why, God turned Hs back.
Where is scripture to back this up? THIS is what scripture says
Luke 22: 41-45
41 He (Jesus) withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.c
45When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
Malachi is talking about punishment, next time around. Some are given a worse life because of their bad karma. We are never without some good qualities.
karma, reincarnation and Christianity do not mix. You can't dabble.
There is no next time around. Psalm 39:4 Show me, O LORD, my life's end and the number of my days; let me know how fleeting is my life.
You would need white-out for what Jesus said in Exodus 34:7 ...we pay for our sins for 3 lifetimes and our blessings follow 1000.
and God will forgive if people confess and repent, as I have shown you twice now.
Generations are not next lives...
here is the definition
"gen·er·a·tion [jen-uh-rey-shuhn]
noun
1. the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time: the postwar generation.
2. the term of years, roughly 30 among human beings, accepted as the average period between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring. 3. a group of individuals, most of whom are the same approximate age, having similar ideas, problems, attitudes, etc. Compare Beat Generation, Lost Generation.
4. a group of individuals belonging to a specific category at the same time: Chaplin belonged to the generation of silent-screen stars.
5. a single step in natural descent, as of human beings, animals, or plants."
::pondering:: You sure seem to get a icky charge from others being punished. Wonder what waits for you? ::pondering::
Punishment for sins in our "past lives".
Karma
Reincarnation
Jesus operating outside of the will of God.
::frown::
This is why this thread was moved to the Non-Traditional Theology forum.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:26:53
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:42:53
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 17:57:13
But, when we don't the punishment comes.
That is the reason bad things happen to good people.
Jesus was the BEST person...and really bad things happened to Him. Was He outside of God's will? Is that why He was cruelly treated, mocked, spit upon, beard ripped from His face, beaten, a crown of thorns dug into His head, nailed to and hung on the cross?
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 17:57:13
God keeps a list of all our sins and blessings for the next time around...Malach 4:16-18
Its Malachi 3:16-18
16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. 17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
...and it doesn't say anything for the next time around, Funguy. We are appointed to die once. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Jesus was the only one ever appointed to die. Adam and Eve were not appointed to die. They died because of sin.
You are appointed to die, just as the bible tells you.
When Jesus went to the cross with our sins, He was out of the will of God. That is why, God turned Hs back.
Where did you get that gem? It is a lie of Satan, and it is even worse to believe it and it is a sin to then repeat it.
Malachi is talking about punishment, next time around. Some are given a worse life because of their bad karma. We are never without some good qualities.
Karma? That word has no place in the mouth of one who puts his faith in Jesus Christ! There is no next time around. Cast aside paganism and come fully into a walk with Jesus Christ as your Saviour and your Lord.
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There are no coincidences in our lives.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:17:36
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:30:27
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:39:51
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
God doesn't need a spy. He knows the number of the hairs on our head.
I received a really big blessing after my grandmother died and I saw other people that treated her wrong lose a lot and go downhill. She told on everyone in my family and we got instant action from God.
Like many lies the devil instills in people's minds, he is only too happy to oblige with works that will cause the false belief to set anchor in that person's heart. Your grandmother made no report to God. god is not in the punishing mode at the moment---He is in the mercy mode because of what His Son has done at Calvary and because of the fact that He is building His Church.
I know that, I've been here for 7 or so years already. That's why I have nothing to do with the world, just the new world wide web, it's my only social contact with people other than my family. And my husband already told me when I asked him, one of the first questions I asked him when we got married was what happens after we die and he said we come back through our blood/DNA. It's not like the reincarnation typically taught in some religions with karma, we are still the same people coming through the same families with slight mutations from the environment. He also told me our souls can't be destroyed when we are in the kingdom so there is no more death for us. If I tell you more people are going to get mad but we do also control a lot of things from here too with Christ. That's why I don't vote, I already know what's going to happen or maybe we just get everything we ask for. Either way, we don't have to lift a finger, just say stuff and it happens.
He even told me how we are going to meet again in 200 years.
That is also a false belief. Get into the word of God and learn what He says, not your husband, who knows nothing about Him.
Hell is not here. It is a place created for eternal punishment of Satan and his angels, and for people who reject Jesus. It is a totally separate place from Earth, seeing as the New Earth is going to be our home base forever.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
: larry2 Mon Aug 06, 2012 - 00:54:26
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Ecclesiastes 9:2-3 "All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. 3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead." The righteous and the wicked all die.
Then it depends on the faith of the believer as to whether a thing is bad or good? All things work together for good to them which love the Lord. Was all that occurred in Job's life for his good? Yes.
There is another thing to be considered and that is the judgment going on in the believer's life as to our walk with Christ. Judgment begins at the house of God, and Jesus is presently walking among the candlesticks.
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. We are God's work in progress, He is doing a mighty work in us, and He ain't finished with me yet. Well, what is God then doing for the sinner? He gave them Jesus, and He sent the Holy Spirit to reprove them of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment; their condemnation is yet future.
Ecclesiastes 7:15 "All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness." Read the Eleventh Chapter of Hebrews as the worthies of faith are cut off, with seemingly little done to them they preached to. Now with Solomon, he is referring to those things of the world, or under the sun. Praise God we have a hope laid up for us in Christ, and we can rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.
+1 on the bold. We gain spiritual growth and maturity during similar times.
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:35:36
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:17:36
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:30:27
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:39:51
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
God doesn't need a spy. He knows the number of the hairs on our head.
I received a really big blessing after my grandmother died and I saw other people that treated her wrong lose a lot and go downhill. She told on everyone in my family and we got instant action from God.
Like many lies the devil instills in people's minds, he is only too happy to oblige with works that will cause the false belief to set anchor in that person's heart. Your grandmother made no report to God. god is not in the punishing mode at the moment---He is in the mercy mode because of what His Son has done at Calvary and because of the fact that He is building His Church.
I know that, I've been here for 7 or so years already. That's why I have nothing to do with the world, just the new world wide web, it's my only social contact with people other than my family. And my husband already told me when I asked him, one of the first questions I asked him when we got married was what happens after we die and he said we come back through our blood/DNA. It's not like the reincarnation typically taught in some religions with karma, we are still the same people coming through the same families with slight mutations from the environment. He also told me our souls can't be destroyed when we are in the kingdom so there is no more death for us. If I tell you more people are going to get mad but we do also control a lot of things from here too with Christ. That's why I don't vote, I already know what's going to happen or maybe we just get everything we ask for. Either way, we don't have to lift a finger, just say stuff and it happens.
He even told me how we are going to meet again in 200 years.
That is also a false belief. Get into the word of God and learn what He says, not your husband, who knows nothing about Him.
Hell is not here. It is a place created for eternal punishment of Satan and his angels, and for people who reject Jesus. It is a totally separate place from Earth, seeing as the New Earth is going to be our home base forever.
I agree with Lively, no one goes to Heaven. We are in the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth. Our bodies are the Temple of God.
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:09:34
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
No one I know has said it is.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
So? Believers have no need to fear God's wrath.
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:20:21
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:09:34
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
No one I know has said it is.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
So? Believers have no need to fear God's wrath.
John 5:14 says even believers need to fear the wrath of God.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:09:17
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:20:21
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:09:34
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
No one I know has said it is.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
So? Believers have no need to fear God's wrath.
John 5:14 says even believers need to fear the wrath of God.
SUCH silliness! The consequences of a sinful life is likely to be what caused the injury of this man...and in order to avoid things getting worse for him, Christ tells him to forsake the sinful habit in order to stay healed and healthy.
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:31:16
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:09:17
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:20:21
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:09:34
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
No one I know has said it is.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
So? Believers have no need to fear God's wrath.
John 5:14 says even believers need to fear the wrath of God.
SUCH silliness! The consequences of a sinful life is likely to be what caused the injury of this man...and in order to avoid things getting worse for him, Christ tells him to forsake the sinful habit in order to stay healed and healthy.
38 years with that illness and now he was an old man. Notice, Jesus didn't heal everyone there. No coincidences...
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:38:49
: MeMyself Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:31:16
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:09:17
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:20:21
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:09:34
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
No one I know has said it is.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
So? Believers have no need to fear God's wrath.
John 5:14 says even believers need to fear the wrath of God.
SUCH silliness! The consequences of a sinful life is likely to be what caused the injury of this man...and in order to avoid things getting worse for him, Christ tells him to forsake the sinful habit in order to stay healed and healthy.
38 years with that illness and now he was an old man. Notice, Jesus didn't heal everyone there. No coincidences...
So?
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 22:09:17
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:20:21
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:09:34
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:40:30
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:34:13
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:14:56
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 15:30:50
What law are we not to follow? We will be rewarded for all broken laws.
Galatians 6:7-8: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Life is like a garden. We reap what we sow. Solomon said: "He who sows iniquity will reap sorrow, and the rod of his anger will fail" (Pr. 22:8).
Eliphaz stated a truism: "Those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same" (Job 4:8).
There is the law of sowing and reaping. Consequences for wrongdoing is not God's punishment. We who are forgiven and the slate is wiped clean will still suffer certain consequences for some acts that we have done against God. He takes the sting out of it and turns things around for us, so that we become a blessing.
Are you saying that people born to horrible lives and others born to beautiful lives are just luck of the draw?
There is no such thing as luck. What do you consider a horrible life or a beautiful life? The only life I consider beautiful is the life of one who serves God with all he's got, no matter what the consequences.
There are no coincidences in our lives.
That's right. Only 'God-incidences'.
Everything Jesus said was about the wrath (punishment) of God for sin.
That's a lie, also. I suggest you read the portions in red of a Red Letter edition of the bible.
People born vegtables are not a coincidence.
No one I know has said it is.
As Jesus said about the wrath of God in Matthew 10:28, "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
So? Believers have no need to fear God's wrath.
John 5:14 says even believers need to fear the wrath of God.
The righteous don't fear God's wrath. They are RIGHTEOUS! We have many great promises of God to embrace, which includes His many admonitions to not fear.
Just a few verses down from your seeming favourite is verse 24:
"I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life."Nah---I don't fear my Father.
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:02:42
I agree with Lively, no one goes to Heaven. We are in the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth. Our bodies are the Temple of God.
Isn't that what I said? I suppose I agree with her too. The Kingdom is already here.
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:35:36
That is also a false belief. Get into the word of God and learn what He says, not your husband, who knows nothing about Him.
The bible tells me to ask my husband if I have any questions. You have no right to tell me not to do what the bible say's.
Hell is not here. It is a place created for eternal punishment of Satan and his angels, and for people who reject Jesus. It is a totally separate place from Earth, seeing as the New Earth is going to be our home base forever.
I wasn't talking about hell. I don't know where it is because I've never been there. ::giggle::
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 21:02:42
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:35:36
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:17:36
: Funguy33 Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 19:30:27
: Bitter Sweet Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 18:39:51
I just want to ask a question, not sure if it's biblical or not but I've seen and experienced this.
Is it possible that when someone we know dies, they also transfer information about us to God? And we get either something good or bad happen to us?
God doesn't need a spy. He knows the number of the hairs on our head.
I received a really big blessing after my grandmother died and I saw other people that treated her wrong lose a lot and go downhill. She told on everyone in my family and we got instant action from God.
Like many lies the devil instills in people's minds, he is only too happy to oblige with works that will cause the false belief to set anchor in that person's heart. Your grandmother made no report to God. god is not in the punishing mode at the moment---He is in the mercy mode because of what His Son has done at Calvary and because of the fact that He is building His Church.
I know that, I've been here for 7 or so years already. That's why I have nothing to do with the world, just the new world wide web, it's my only social contact with people other than my family. And my husband already told me when I asked him, one of the first questions I asked him when we got married was what happens after we die and he said we come back through our blood/DNA. It's not like the reincarnation typically taught in some religions with karma, we are still the same people coming through the same families with slight mutations from the environment. He also told me our souls can't be destroyed when we are in the kingdom so there is no more death for us. If I tell you more people are going to get mad but we do also control a lot of things from here too with Christ. That's why I don't vote, I already know what's going to happen or maybe we just get everything we ask for. Either way, we don't have to lift a finger, just say stuff and it happens.
He even told me how we are going to meet again in 200 years.
That is also a false belief. Get into the word of God and learn what He says, not your husband, who knows nothing about Him.
Hell is not here. It is a place created for eternal punishment of Satan and his angels, and for people who reject Jesus. It is a totally separate place from Earth, seeing as the New Earth is going to be our home base forever.
I agree with Lively, no one goes to Heaven. We are in the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth. Our bodies are the Temple of God.
Hold on! We aren't there yet.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 06:36:59
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:35:36
That is also a false belief. Get into the word of God and learn what He says, not your husband, who knows nothing about Him.
The bible tells me to ask my husband if I have any questions. You have no right to tell me not to do what the bible say's.
The bible does not tell you that.
There is an instruction for Christian women to consult their Christian husbands on scriptural matters because at that time it was only men who had the knowledge of the Torah.
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:00:28
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 06:36:59
: Lively Stone Wed Aug 15, 2012 - 20:35:36
That is also a false belief. Get into the word of God and learn what He says, not your husband, who knows nothing about Him.
The bible tells me to ask my husband if I have any questions. You have no right to tell me not to do what the bible say's.
The bible does not tell you that.
There is an instruction for Christian women to consult their Christian husbands on scriptural matters because at that time it was only men who had the knowledge of the Torah.
Are there other parts of the bible we shouldn't live by either? I had no idea your views were so non-traditional, good thing we are in this forum! My husband would not approve of your teaching! He's going to be a police man one day, he loves the law. ::giggle::
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:12:38
Are there other parts of the bible we shouldn't live by either?
We need to live by the rightly discerned words of Scripture. What I have told you is the truth. If your husband is unsaved, you don't consult him about spiritual things.
I had no idea your views were so non-traditional, good thing we are in this forum!
My views are simply based on the word of God. Whether or not that is traditonal makes no difference to me. Jesus was radical, and if that makes me radical, I'm all for it!
My husband would not approve of your teaching! He's going to be a police man one day, he loves the law. ::giggle::
I should think he wouldn't approve. Why should he?
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
Amen!
: BSI had no idea your views were so non-traditional, good thing we are in this forum!
: LSMy views are simply based on the word of God. Whether or not that is traditonal makes no difference to me. Jesus was radical, and if that makes me radical, I'm all for it!
Possibly one of the best, and truest, things posted here. Jesus tried to wake us up from the stupor of blindly following "tradition".
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
Is the king on his throne?
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:29:56
We need to live by the rightly discerned words of Scripture. What I have told you is the truth. If your husband is unsaved, you don't consult him about spiritual things.
Since he is, I can and it's recommended.
My views are simply based on the word of God. Whether or not that is traditonal makes no difference to me. Jesus was radical, and if that makes me radical, I'm all for it!
My view is based on the word of God too. I will always listen to my husband.
I should think he wouldn't approve. Why should he?
Because he is the head of me, not you. Why would you encourage women not to listen to their husbands? That's how bad things happen to good people. LS, I don't think it's a good idea to tell other households they are wrong for not believing what you believe.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here.
Not true. The Holy Spirit is given us to be our helper..in the Kingdom of Heaven, we will not need a helper, because there will be nothing but perfection there. We will see Him face to face! ::clappingoverhead::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
We are in the world but not of the world.
In the world...as in these are the breaks folks.
Not of the world...as in do not conform to the world's ways, which is why we need the helper.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand.
The world will not always be here...and our time is limited on the expansion of the Kingdom.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is moving on these people, praise God! ::clappingoverhead::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect.
The Kingdom of God is perfect. We have nothing to do with it.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
nope. You are flat out wrong.
John 9:1-3
1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"
Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:24:51
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:29:56
We need to live by the rightly discerned words of Scripture. What I have told you is the truth. If your husband is unsaved, you don't consult him about spiritual things.
Since he is, I can and it's recommended.
He is? When did he come to accept Jesus Christ as His Lord and Saviour? It must have been very recently. I must have missed your announcement!
My view is based on the word of God too. I will always listen to my husband.
If he is a believer you both should be listening to God through His word together.
: Lively StoneI should think he wouldn't approve. Why should he?
Because he is the head of me, not you. Why would you encourage women not to listen to their husbands? That's how bad things happen to good people. LS, I don't think it's a good idea to tell other households they are wrong for not believing what you believe.
I never encourage women to not listen to their husbands. The instruction in scripture was for the women of that day who knew nothing of the word, and so they needed to be quiet with their continual interruptions in the meetings asking what was meant, and to ask their husbands at home. That doesn't mean we feed on the instruction of our husbands. We are supposed to be serving the Lord together with them equally. In this culture, many wives are spiritually more mature than their husbands, and in those marriages (more than you can shake as tick at!) it is the other way around.
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:25:53
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here.
Not true. The Holy Spirit is given us to be our helper..in the Kingdom of Heaven, we will not need a helper, because there will be nothing but perfection there. We will see Him face to face! ::clappingoverhead::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
We are in the world but not of the world.
In the world...as in these are the breaks folks.
Not of the world...as in do not conform to the world's ways, which is why we need the helper.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand.
The world will not always be here...and our time is limited on the expansion of the Kingdom.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is moving on these people, praise God! ::clappingoverhead::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect.
The Kingdom of God is perfect. We have nothing to do with it.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
nope. You are flat out wrong.
John 9:1-3
1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life
Deuteronomy 28:1
And it shall come to pass; if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.
I don't think anyone born blind or any other handicap would feel like they were being blessed.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:35:38
I don't think anyone born blind or any other handicap would feel like they were being blessed.
::idea::
How bout this...instead of speaking for them. How bout you find someone who is a follower of Christ and has been born blind, become blind or otherwise "afflicted" and
ask them to speak for themselves? And, then...really listen. ::prayinghard:: Please, Lord Jesus let it be so!
I know a man who was afflicted when he was very very young. He can't do the things his heart most longs to do, but in-spite of all of that, his testimony about his life as he told me, humbles me daily.
He told me he is
thankful for his affliction. Its speaks to him of how
much God loves him that He touched him in this way. "Because," he reasoned, "it keeps me humble. I
must rely on Him! It keeps me from being a stinking egotistical jerk. I bet I would be that and
more if my body worked like everyone else's and that is why God saw fit to let me have this one."
He also said it gives him
much to look forward to one day when he sees his Lord and Savior face to face. "I'm gonna LOVE my new body! I'm gonna play catch with God...I can't
wait to
run out for a long pass!" ::clappingoverhead::
Someday, I hope to have as healthy and beautiful an attitude and heart as he has...
: Jimmy Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:23:02
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
Is the king on his throne?
Stop by the house, and pick me up the next time you drive there.
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:48:12
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:35:38
I don't think anyone born blind or any other handicap would feel like they were being blessed.
::idea::
How bout this...instead of speaking for them. How bout you find someone who is a follower of Christ and has been born blind, become blind or otherwise "afflicted" and ask them to speak for themselves? And, then...really listen. ::prayinghard:: Please, Lord Jesus let it be so!
I know a man who was afflicted when he was very very young. He can't do the things his heart most longs to do, but in-spite of all of that, his testimony about his life as he told me, humbles me daily.
He told me he is thankful for his affliction. Its speaks to him of how much God loves him that He touched him in this way. "Because," he reasoned, "it keeps me humble. I must rely on Him! It keeps me from being a stinking egotistical jerk. I bet I would be that and more if my body worked like everyone else's and that is why God saw fit to let me have this one."
He also said it gives him much to look forward to one day when he sees his Lord and Savior face to face. "I'm gonna LOVE my new body! I'm gonna play catch with God...I can't wait to run out for a long pass!" ::clappingoverhead::
Someday, I hope to have as healthy and beautiful an attitude and heart as he has...
Exodus 34:7 says he will only be punished 3-4 lifetimes. Maybe he has served his sentence. Each time new sins follow us.
Did you know that clergymen could curse you? If you don't believe the way they do, lots of times they get angry and tell you you're listening to Satan rather than God. What about a preacher who is homosexual or who is an adulterer or divorced and officiates at a young couple's wedding? He pronounces a "blessing" over the two, but God says that's really a curse. Have you ever been cursed by a priest or by a preacher? If you have, be sure to forgive him or her, break off the curse, and ask God to fill you with blessings instead.
There's also the case of those ministers who get puffed up with what they are doing and take for themselves the glory that God deserves. Those people are cursed by God.
This is the reason I don't let a lot of people pray for me. First, we hear and then we take it to heart. Only then can we give God the glory. Another source of curses is not giving glory to God, substituting idols instead.
(Deuteronomy 27:15) Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:52:47
: Jimmy Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:23:02
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
Is the king on his throne?
Stop by the house, and pick me up the next time you drive there.
Jesus goes with me everywhere I go. That is why He can't return, He is already here.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:27:05
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:52:47
: Jimmy Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:23:02
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
Is the king on his throne?
Stop by the house, and pick me up the next time you drive there.
Jesus goes with me everywhere I go. That is why He can't return, He is already here.
My goodness. And here I thought he was seated in Heaven.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:25:02
Exodus 34:7 says he will only be punished 3-4 lifetimes. Maybe he has served his sentence. Each time new sins follow us.
Nope. That is not what it says. It speaks of generations. I gave you the definition of what a generation is...did you read it. You don't seem to understand the concept.
He has lived once and will die once. Just like you. Just like me.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:25:02
Did you know that clergymen could curse you? If you don't believe the way they do, lots of times they get angry and tell you you're listening to Satan rather than God.
::shrug:: If you are covered in the blood of Jesus, you are safe from anyone that tries to curse you.
If you are being told you are believing a lie...its because you are, Funguy. What you are saying about this topic is not backed up fully by scripture. You focus too much on the "or else" and stop reading the rest which is "I will remember my covenant" "I will forgive".
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:25:02
What about a preacher who is homosexual or who is an adulterer or divorced and officiates at a young couple's wedding? He pronounces a "blessing" over the two, but God says that's really a curse. Have you ever been cursed by a priest or by a preacher? If you have, be sure to forgive him or her, break off the curse, and ask God to fill you with blessings instead.
okaaaay? ::juggle::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:25:02
There's also the case of those ministers who get puffed up with what they are doing and take for themselves the glory that God deserves. Those people are cursed by God.
This is the reason I don't let a lot of people pray for me. First, we hear and then we take it to heart. Only then can we give God the glory. Another source of curses is not giving glory to God, substituting idols instead.
okaaaay? ::juggle::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:25:02
(Deuteronomy 27:15) Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
This passage has nothing to do with the topic or having people pray for you. ::juggle::
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:31:38
My goodness. And here I thought he was seated in Heaven.
Jesus said people aren't supposed to say it's here or there, because it's within our midst.
Luke 17:20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst."
Luke 17:23 Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.
We aren't supposed to listen to you telling us he's seated in heaven Willie.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:40:32
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:31:38
My goodness. And here I thought he was seated in Heaven.
Jesus said people aren't supposed to say it's here or there, because it's within our midst.
Luke 17:20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst."
Luke 17:23 Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.
We aren't supposed to listen to you telling us he's seated in heaven Willie.
Well then. by all means, don't. It's your future, not mine.
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:31:38
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:27:05
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:52:47
: Jimmy Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:23:02
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
Is the king on his throne?
Stop by the house, and pick me up the next time you drive there.
Jesus goes with me everywhere I go. That is why He can't return, He is already here.
My goodness. And here I thought he was seated in Heaven.
He brought Heaven to earth and our bodies are His Temple and His Throne. Acts 7:48
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:19:13
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
Yup thats where He is ::smile::
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
: chosenone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:36:21
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:19:13
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
Yup thats where He is ::smile::
In our midst! ::clappingoverhead:: We can't leave that part out, otherwise people's imaginations are going to run wild and that's another way that bad things happen to good people.
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 13:05:48
: chosenone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:36:21
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:19:13
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
Yup thats where He is ::smile::
In our midst! ::clappingoverhead:: We can't leave that part out, otherwise people's imaginations are going to run wild and that's another way that bad things happen to good people.
But, we can't get so locked into human understanding that we place Him one place or the other. Scripture is clear that when He conquered sin and death, He sat at the Father's right hand. Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit comes to us upon accepting Him as Lord and Savior and scripture is clear that He promises to be in our midst where two or more are gathered.
He
is at the Father's right hand
in Heaven.
which is a separate place from when
He
is with us.
and when
He
is in our midst when we gather.
This body, this life, this time will pass away and we will know Him and understand fully when we see Him face to face. 1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:19:13
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
Are you saying Jesus is not with God in your heart?
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 13:14:43
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 13:05:48
: chosenone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:36:21
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:19:13
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
Yup thats where He is ::smile::
In our midst! ::clappingoverhead:: We can't leave that part out, otherwise people's imaginations are going to run wild and that's another way that bad things happen to good people.
But, we can't get so locked into human understanding that we place Him one place or the other. Scripture is clear that when He conquered sin and death, He sat at the Father's right hand. Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit comes to us upon accepting Him as Lord and Savior and scripture is clear that He promises to be in our midst where two or more are gathered.
He is at the Father's right hand in Heaven.
which is a separate place from when
He is with us.
and when
He is in our midst when we gather.
This body, this life, this time will pass away and we will know Him and understand fully when we see Him face to face. 1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Isaiah 9:7 Says He will rule here forever and continue expanding His Kingdom, here on earth. The rapture happens when you are born again.
Hell will also be here Revelation 22:15
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:18:55
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 13:14:43
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 13:05:48
: chosenone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:36:21
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:19:13
Hebrews 1:1-4 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Hebrews 12:1-2 12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Scripture says that He is at the right hand of the Father. ::clappingoverhead::
Yup thats where He is ::smile::
In our midst! ::clappingoverhead:: We can't leave that part out, otherwise people's imaginations are going to run wild and that's another way that bad things happen to good people.
But, we can't get so locked into human understanding that we place Him one place or the other. Scripture is clear that when He conquered sin and death, He sat at the Father's right hand. Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit comes to us upon accepting Him as Lord and Savior and scripture is clear that He promises to be in our midst where two or more are gathered.
He is at the Father's right hand in Heaven.
which is a separate place from when
He is with us.
and when
He is in our midst when we gather.
This body, this life, this time will pass away and we will know Him and understand fully when we see Him face to face. 1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Isaiah 9:7 Says He will rule here forever and continue expanding His Kingdom, here on earth. The rapture happens when you are born again.
Hell will also be here Revelation 22:15
Will rule...not ruling now...will rule. It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
Jobs friends were wrong.
And
Children area blessing from the Lord
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:27:09
Will rule...not ruling now...will rule. It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.
Forever is always, it's past present and future. I don't think forever is something in the future only. When he say's he is coming soon, doesn't mean we all arrive at once, that's why the gate never closes. Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
Darkness will shut people out.
Matthew 8:12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Does this mean people get kicked out or are just shut out by their own doing?
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:38:01
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:27:09
Will rule...not ruling now...will rule. It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.
Forever is always, it's past present and future. I don't think forever is something in the future only. When he say's he is coming soon, doesn't mean we all arrive at once, that's why the gate never closes. Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
Darkness will shut people out.
Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Acts 1:4-9 4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
when they met together, they asked him, "
Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Forever has no beginning and no ending, but God has a plan within the time frame of eternity. He alone knows the hour and the day of Christ's second coming and Earthly reign
: The Funny FarmIf you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
Funnyguy33,
Have you been neglecting to take the medications the doctors prescribed for you?
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:49:23
Forever has no beginning and no ending, but God has a plan within the time frame of eternity. He alone knows the hour and the day of Christ's second coming and Earthly reign
This so funny that you mention this, my husband said this to me the exact same time you posted it! rofl
I knew he was coming home from work today but I didn't know what time, I just knew I had to have chicken and rice ready. I'm fixen the food and he comes home and he say's I need coffee and a sugar cookie e-cig (it takes time to fill those up). I told him "If I had known what time you were coming home I would have had it all ready." He said, "Jesus doesn't call people to tell them I'm on the way, that's why you always got to be ready." ::giggle::
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:49:23
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:38:01
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:27:09
Will rule...not ruling now...will rule. It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.
Forever is always, it's past present and future. I don't think forever is something in the future only. When he say's he is coming soon, doesn't mean we all arrive at once, that's why the gate never closes. Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
Darkness will shut people out.
Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Acts 1:4-9 4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Forever has no beginning and no ending, but God has a plan within the time frame of eternity. He alone knows the hour and the day of Christ's second coming and Earthly reign
Did you miss the calling? He came at Pentecost and fulfilled the promise of the prophet Joel Acts 2:16-32
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:35:06
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:49:23
: Bitter Sweet Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:38:01
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:27:09
Will rule...not ruling now...will rule. It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.
Forever is always, it's past present and future. I don't think forever is something in the future only. When he say's he is coming soon, doesn't mean we all arrive at once, that's why the gate never closes. Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
Darkness will shut people out.
Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Acts 1:4-9 4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Forever has no beginning and no ending, but God has a plan within the time frame of eternity. He alone knows the hour and the day of Christ's second coming and Earthly reign
Did you miss the calling? He came at Pentecost and fulfilled the promise of the prophet Joel Acts 2:16-32
No, the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost...just like Jesus promised He would. This is/was not the second coming of Christ!
Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17
Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.
::doh::
::frown::
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Clearly sir....you don't understand the bible or God and there is nothing fun or funny about statements of that sort
You do a little more study before you make statements that mis-characterize and misrepresent the character and nature of God
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:10:06
Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7
Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14
This topic question reminded me of the following quote that I fell in love with when I first read it:
March 22, 2006
" Do not pray for an easy life, pray to be a strong person. Not to be rich,
but to be resourceful. Not to be beautiful, but to feel confident about
yourself. Do not pray to remove trials, for it hones you to be a better
person. To remove pain & hurt, for it makes you appreciate life. Pray to
experience defeat, for it gives you a chance to have hope in your heart, to
be HUMAN, closer to God."
Copyright © 2006 James Padilla
: gospel Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 17:04:02
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20
: chosenone Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.
There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.
Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.
Clearly sir....you don't understand the bible or God and there is nothing fun or funny about statements of that sort
You do a little more study before you make statements that mis-characterize and misrepresent the character and nature of God
You must not be aware of the Book of Lamentations, or Lev 26 or Deuteronomy 28
Amos 3:6
6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:35:38
: MeMyself Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:25:53
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here.
Not true. The Holy Spirit is given us to be our helper..in the Kingdom of Heaven, we will not need a helper, because there will be nothing but perfection there. We will see Him face to face! ::clappingoverhead::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
We are in the world but not of the world.
In the world...as in these are the breaks folks.
Not of the world...as in do not conform to the world's ways, which is why we need the helper.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand.
The world will not always be here...and our time is limited on the expansion of the Kingdom.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is moving on these people, praise God! ::clappingoverhead::
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect.
The Kingdom of God is perfect. We have nothing to do with it.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
nope. You are flat out wrong.
John 9:1-3
1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life
Deuteronomy 28:1
And it shall come to pass; if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.
I don't think anyone born blind or any other handicap would feel like they were being blessed.
Meet Nick Vujicic, a man born without limbs, who loves Jesus Christ and loves his life!
http://youtu.be/H8ZuKF3dxCY (http://youtu.be/H8ZuKF3dxCY)
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:27:05
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:52:47
: Jimmy Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:23:02
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
: Willie T Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet. We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom. But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.
Brilliant. If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China? No. You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.
Is the king on his throne?
Stop by the house, and pick me up the next time you drive there.
Jesus goes with me everywhere I go. That is why He can't return, He is already here.
You cannot differentiate between the spiritual and the physical?
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17
Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.
You need to take this preterist prattle to the preterist forum. It doesn't belong here.
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:33:04
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17
Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.
You need to take this preterist prattle to the preterist forum. It doesn't belong here.
You are right...Preterism is not Non Traditional
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.
I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.
This MIGHT have been considered a little correction on his friend's part.
Job 42
7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job's prayer.
You should be careful of repeatedly trying to quote a Bible you really don't seem to know too much about. God just might get tired of the baloney one of these days.
Willie T
You never did answer my question...
Explain the New Covenant and how John 5:14 fits into it.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:29:49
Willie T
You never did answer my question...
Explain the New Covenant and how John 5:14 fits into it.
To explain it again to you, when others have already done so, several times, will do no good. You seem to be unable to decipher it.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:43:25
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:33:04
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17
Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.
Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.
Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.
The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)
Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.
You need to take this preterist prattle to the preterist forum. It doesn't belong here.
You are right...Preterism is not Non Traditional
It is that and MORE, which is why it needs to be confined to its own forum.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.
I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.
I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him, as well as pointing out Job's friends' false comfort.
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:43:01
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.
I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.
I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him.
If Job wasn't being punished for sin in his last life, then the sad thing, according to the story, Job went through hell, so God could win a bet with Satan.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:48:21
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:43:01
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.
I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.
I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him.
If Job wasn't being punished for sin in his last life, then the sad thing, according to the story, Job went through hell, so God could win a bet with Satan.
That just goes to show you that you do not comprehend the scriptures.
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:58:36
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:48:21
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:43:01
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23
: Lively Stone Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05
: jmldn2 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26
::smile::
Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people. I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned. Look at the book of Job. Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill. It's the work of Satan himself.
If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.
I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.
That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.
I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.
I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him.
If Job wasn't being punished for sin in his last life, then the sad thing, according to the story, Job went through hell, so God could win a bet with Satan.
That just goes to show you that you do not comprehend the scriptures.
::nodding::
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
: Willie T Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19
: Willie T Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?
Do you know what 'coincidence' means?
God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.
There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not.
You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19
: Willie T Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?
Do you know what 'coincidence' means?
God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.
There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.
Do you have a scripture for your false belief?
Deuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:15:31
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19
: Willie T Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?
Do you know what 'coincidence' means?
God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.
There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.
Do you have a scripture for your false belief?
I hold to no false beliefs, because I believe what God says.
Hebrews 9:27-28Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Reincarnation is a lie of Satan. What is true is salvation by GRACE. Reincarnation requires each person to work out his own salvation—and when he finally did he would simply cease to exist! Jesus already paid for all of our evil deeds. All we have to do is accept the salvation He offers as a free gift!
Accepting the lie of reincarnation is the same as rejecting salvation.
Deuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.
Sin brings consequences. For instance, a person who holds on to a grudge develops a bitter root, which turns into Cancer. Is that something God visits upon people? No. We bring it on ourselves.
God says He is our healer and heals all our diseases. Either He is Jehovah Rapha and you declare Him as such, or to you He is a liar and a corrupt judge, and you declare the opposite, which is a lie. You have no scripture to support yourself.
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:47:09
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:15:31
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19
: Willie T Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?
Do you know what 'coincidence' means?
God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.
There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.
Do you have a scripture for your false belief?
I hold to no false beliefs, because I believe what God says.
Hebrews 9:27-28
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Reincarnation is a lie of Satan. What is true is salvation by GRACE. Reincarnation requires each person to work out his own salvation—and when he finally did he would simply cease to exist! Jesus already paid for all of our evil deeds. All we have to do is accept the salvation He offers as a free gift!
Accepting the lie of reincarnation is the same as rejecting salvation.
Deuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.
Sin brings consequences. For instance, a person who holds on to a grudge develops a bitter root, which turns into Cancer. Is that something God visits upon people? No. We bring it on ourselves.
God says He is our healer and heals all our diseases. Either He is Jehovah Rapha and you declare Him as such, or to you He is a liar and a corrupt judge, and you declare the opposite, which is a lie. You have no scripture to support yourself.
Jesus said in Exodus 34:7 we will pay for our sins 3-4 lifetimes.
Hebrews 9:27-28 was Jesus who was appointed to die. Adam and Eve were not appointed to die. We die because of sin.
You should go to the hospital and start healing, it sure is needed. When Jesus healed, He told the people not to sin again or it would be worse next time. Leviticus 26 says the punishment will multiply each time.
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:59:26
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:47:09
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:15:31
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51
: Funguy33 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19
: Willie T Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10
: Funguy33 Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17
Isaiah 66:24
24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.
What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?
Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.
Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking. But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues. This is a thoroughly warped guy.
Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?
Do you know what 'coincidence' means?
God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.
There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.
Do you have a scripture for your false belief?
I hold to no false beliefs, because I believe what God says.
Hebrews 9:27-28
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Reincarnation is a lie of Satan. What is true is salvation by GRACE. Reincarnation requires each person to work out his own salvation—and when he finally did he would simply cease to exist! Jesus already paid for all of our evil deeds. All we have to do is accept the salvation He offers as a free gift!
Accepting the lie of reincarnation is the same as rejecting salvation.
Deuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.
Sin brings consequences. For instance, a person who holds on to a grudge develops a bitter root, which turns into Cancer. Is that something God visits upon people? No. We bring it on ourselves.
God says He is our healer and heals all our diseases. Either He is Jehovah Rapha and you declare Him as such, or to you He is a liar and a corrupt judge, and you declare the opposite, which is a lie. You have no scripture to support yourself.
Jesus said in Exodus 34:7 we will pay for our sins 3-4 lifetimes.
You are still dancing to that old tune that has been refuted for you time after time. We don't pay for anything when Jesus has already paid for it...unless you want to. It is up to you.
Hebrews 9:27-28 was Jesus who was appointed to die. Adam and Eve were not appointed to die. We die because of sin.
No---it doesn't say that. You are reading scripture wrong.
You should go to the hospital and start healing, it sure is needed. When Jesus healed, He told the people not to sin again or it would be worse next time. Leviticus 26 says the punishment will multiply each time.
Why should I do that? The gifts are for use within the Body of Christ. All believers have their healing already. All they have to do is appropriate it by faith.
God doesn't punish. He lovingly convicts, corrects and chastises through the scriptures.
Lively Stone,
I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.
: raggthyme76 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,
I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.
Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?
Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19
: raggthyme76 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,
I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.
Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?
Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?
Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.
I personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.
: raggthyme76 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:27:02
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19
: raggthyme76 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,
I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.
Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?
Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?
Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.
God is the father of all living things. He set it all in motion. He is neither clueless nor unaware of anything that goes on. Infirmities are not the result of
HIS handiwork!
I personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.
I agree with that, yet I believe the only way God intervenes in the natural world is if the righteous intercede.
: Lively Stone Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:45:00
: raggthyme76 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:27:02
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19
: raggthyme76 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,
I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.
Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?
Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?
Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.
God is the father of all living things. He set it all in motion. He is neither clueless nor unaware of anything that goes on. Infirmities are not the result of HIS handiwork!
I personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.
I agree with that, yet I believe the only way God intervenes in the natural world is if the righteous intercede.
Everything that happens to us is according to God's plan, as a consequence of our last lives...
Jeremiah 18
The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words." 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the Lord. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
11 "Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the Lord: "Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good."'"
and this:
Romans 9:21
Does not the Potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Just as the Natural man comes first, and then the Spiritual, so God formed the First Adam from clay, from below, and the Last Adam (Christ Jesus) of Spirit from above. To be IN Christ IS to walk ion the Spirit of Christ, for HE IS the Resurrection!
And God is Sovereign, and He's got the whole world in His Hands!
: raggthyme76 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:27:02
I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.
You have stated the truth. WE don't know. And there is enough that we don't know to create a whole 'nother world.
This is but one example we CAN see. Do you know Joyce Meyer? A lot is explained right there. True, that's only one case I can see, but as you said.... the rest we cannot yet understand.
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 07:59:56
Everything that happens to us is according to God's plan, as a consequence of our last lives...
::frustrated::
: MeMyself Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:16:26
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 07:59:56
Everything that happens to us is according to God's plan, as a consequence of our last lives...
::frustrated::
Unlax, MM. There's a mental thing going on here. Only God can deal with that.
: raggthyme76 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:27:02
: Lively Stone Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19
: raggthyme76 Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,
I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.
Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?
Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?
Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.
I personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.
Why does everyone ignore God's scripture, Exodus 34:7, which explains why bad things happen? God thought it so important, He repeated it 5 times.
Choose life so that you may live. I understand that reconcilliation between free will and God's omniciense are difficult to reconcile. I have and will continue to write about this topic, but for now I will try to simplify it for you. G-d does know all which can happen, because for every decision we make, the consequences will be different. G-d sees all of the potential consequences simultaneously. Your destiny on earth will be made available to you time and again if need be. If you always choose not to follow your destiny, you will have another opportunity to do so when you are reincarnated.
Most importantly, remember, all of our choices, whether of inaction, or action have conseqences.
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44:24
If you always choose not to follow your destiny, you will have another opportunity to do so when you are reincarnated.
where is the scripture for your insistence in reincarnation?
This is nothing but new age deception that you have bought into.
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44:24
Why does everyone ignore God's scripture, Exodus 34:7, which explains why bad things happen? God thought it so important, He repeated it 5 times.
Choose life so that you may live. I understand that reconcilliation between free will and God's omniciense are difficult to reconcile. I have and will continue to write about this topic, but for now I will try to simplify it for you. G-d does know all which can happen, because for every decision we make, the consequences will be different. G-d sees all of the potential consequences simultaneously. Your destiny on earth will be made available to you time and again if need be. If you always choose not to follow your destiny, you will have another opportunity to do so when you are reincarnated.
Most importantly, remember, all of our choices, whether of inaction, or action have conseqences.
Talk about ignorance rambling on! What's with the silliness of the dash (-) in God's name in some places, (Jewish games), and totally forgetting to omit the "o" in the other places. Oops! Looks like you're going to have to repeat yet another life as a toad.
: MeMyself Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:48:37
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44:24
If you always choose not to follow your destiny, you will have another opportunity to do so when you are reincarnated.
where is the scripture for your insistence in reincarnation?
This is nothing but new age deception that you have bought into.
When scripture says you pay for your sins for 3-4 lifetimes and blessings follow you for 1000 lifetimes, that is reincarnation.
That is not NEW but in the second book of the Bible.
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 09:05:02
: MeMyself Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:48:37
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44:24
If you always choose not to follow your destiny, you will have another opportunity to do so when you are reincarnated.
where is the scripture for your insistence in reincarnation?
This is nothing but new age deception that you have bought into.
When scripture says you pay for your sins for 3-4 lifetimes and blessings follow you for 1000 lifetimes, that is reincarnation.
That is not NEW but in the second book of the Bible.
Well, here's the thing. Scripture doesn't say that! It speaks of generations (again...do you understand what a generation is?), not do-over lives.
Reincarnation is not scriptural. It is new age garbage.
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 07:59:56
Everything that happens to us is according to God's plan, as a consequence of our last lives...
Prove that using scripture! What you have offered so far hasn't done too well. When Jesus comes in, He takes care of the eternal consequences for our sin!
: Willie T Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:57:43
Talk about ignorance rambling on! What's with the silliness of the dash (-) in God's name in some places, (Jewish games), and totally forgetting to omit the "o" in the other places. Oops! Looks like you're going to have to repeat yet another life as a toad.
ROFL! That reminds me of my favourite line of all time:
"We. Thought. You. Was. A. Toad!"
http://youtu.be/oYs2UxyQSbA (http://youtu.be/oYs2UxyQSbA)
: Lively Stone Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 10:27:47
: Willie T Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:57:43
Talk about ignorance rambling on! What's with the silliness of the dash (-) in God's name in some places, (Jewish games), and totally forgetting to omit the "o" in the other places. Oops! Looks like you're going to have to repeat yet another life as a toad.
ROFL! That reminds me of my favourite line of all time:
"We. Thought. You. Was. A. Toad!"
http://youtu.be/oYs2UxyQSbA (http://youtu.be/oYs2UxyQSbA)
rofl
love.this.movie!
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 09:05:02
: MeMyself Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:48:37
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44:24
If you always choose not to follow your destiny, you will have another opportunity to do so when you are reincarnated.
where is the scripture for your insistence in reincarnation?
This is nothing but new age deception that you have bought into.
When scripture says you pay for your sins for 3-4 lifetimes and blessings follow you for 1000 lifetimes, that is reincarnation.
That is not NEW but in the second book of the Bible.
Go to the nearest bible bookstore, and plunk down 60 bucks on the counter and buy a new bible, preferably one with a New Testament.
Oh, and in modern English!
Deuteronomy 24:16
Parents must not be put to death for the sins of their children, nor children for the sins of their parents. Those deserving to die must be put to death for their own crimes.
Jeremiah 31:29-31
"The people will no longer quote this proverb:
'The parents have eaten sour grapes,
but their children's mouths pucker at the taste.'
All people will die for their own sins—those who eat the sour grapes will be the ones whose mouths will pucker.
"The day is coming," says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.
Ezekiel 18:20
The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent's sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child's sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.
Romans 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
Genesis 9:21-25
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father .... And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Genesis 20:18
The LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 28:18
Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body.
1 Samuel 3:12-13
I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house ... I will judge his house for ever ... because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
2 Samuel 12:14
The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
2 Samuel 21:6-9
Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD.
1 Kings 2:33
Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever.
1 Kings 11:11-12
Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son.
1 Kings 21:29
Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.
2 Kings 5:27
The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever.
Isaiah 14:21
Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.
Jeremiah 16:10-11
Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 29:32
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed.
Jeremiah 32:18
Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them.
Zephaniah 1:8
I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 12:41:52
Romans 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
Genesis 9:21-25
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father .... And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Genesis 20:18
The LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 28:18
Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body.
1 Samuel 3:12-13
I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house ... I will judge his house for ever ... because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
2 Samuel 12:14
The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
2 Samuel 21:6-9
Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD.
1 Kings 2:33
Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever.
1 Kings 11:11-12
Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son.
1 Kings 21:29
Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.
2 Kings 5:27
The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever.
Isaiah 14:21
Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.
Jeremiah 16:10-11
Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 29:32
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed.
Jeremiah 32:18
Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them.
Zephaniah 1:8
I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
There you go again, using the Old Testament to prove your adherence to a punishing God. The Romans passage simply tells you that God is the one who avenges, and He will do that on Judgment Day...not before. Because of Jesus, God reserves His right to punish until then.
: Lively Stone Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 16:11:47
: Funguy33 Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 12:41:52
Romans 12:19
Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
Genesis 9:21-25
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father .... And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Genesis 20:18
The LORD had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
Deuteronomy 23:2
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 28:18
Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body.
1 Samuel 3:12-13
I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house ... I will judge his house for ever ... because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
2 Samuel 12:14
The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
2 Samuel 21:6-9
Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD.
1 Kings 2:33
Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever.
1 Kings 11:11-12
Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son.
1 Kings 21:29
Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.
2 Kings 5:27
The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever.
Isaiah 14:21
Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers.
Jeremiah 16:10-11
Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 29:32
Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed.
Jeremiah 32:18
Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them.
Zephaniah 1:8
I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.
There you go again, using the Old Testament to prove your adherence to a punishing God. The Romans passage simply tells you that God is the one who avenges, and He will do that on Judgment Day...not before. Because of Jesus, God reserves His right to punish until then.
Are you saying Jesus wasn't the God of the Old Testament?
A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger, fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness.
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 19, 2012 - 08:00:46
A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger, fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness.
The whole point is God's
love for mankind.
You really don't seem to understand this.
His wrath is even motivated from His love. In the days of Noah, it had gotten so bad, He regretting making mankind, but then He remembered Noah, was moved to compassion and preserved him and his family to start over. When the flood was over, He promised to never distroy the world like that again.
When He was steaming mad at Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham reasoned with Him. Look at God's "anger", look at His "wrath", look at His "fury" for yourself:
Genesis 18 20-33
"Then the Lord said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."
The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord. Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing —to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
The Lord said, "If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. "
Then Abraham spoke up again: "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?"
"If I find forty-five there," he said, "I will not destroy it."
Once again he spoke to him, "What if only forty are found there?"
He said, "For the sake of forty, I will not do it."
Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?"
He answered, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."
Abraham said, "Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?"
He said, "For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it."
Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?"
He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."
When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home."
He waits on high to have compassion. Why? Because of His love.
When He warns of His wrath, He provides a way to avoid it. Why? Because of His love.
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 19, 2012 - 08:00:46
: Lively Stone Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 16:11:47
There you go again, using the Old Testament to prove your adherence to a punishing God. The Romans passage simply tells you that God is the one who avenges, and He will do that on Judgment Day...not before. Because of Jesus, God reserves His right to punish until then.
Are you saying Jesus wasn't the God of the Old Testament?
A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger, fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness.
No, I would never say something like that. You don't seem to understand that God's anger and fury at sin was poured out on Jesus. Right now He is withholding that same wrath for sin until Jesus finishes building His Church. Right now He is revealing His great mercy and His great compassion for sinners. We are fortunate to be living in this age, but too many people forget that God is fully rounded in personality, and forget that He is the just Judge and will reveal His wrath one Day. They are fooled by His mercy, and lulled into the false sense of spiritual security. That is why we are to be committed to reveal Him as He is. Instead of adhering to God the merciful, like so many are today, you are focused on that God of wrath. That is an equally wrong perception of who God is!
"God of Jesus: "God is love." (1 John 4:16) God of Moses: "Kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man" (Num. 31:17)
God of Jesus: "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me." (Mark 9:37) God of Moses: "Put to death men and women, children and infants" (1 Sam. 15:2-3)
God of Jesus: "Love does no harm to its neighbor" (Rom. 13:10) God of Moses: "He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded." (Josh. 10:40)
God of Jesus: "[The devil] was a murderer from the beginning." (John 8:44) God of Moses: "Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children" (Ezek. 9:6)
God of Jesus: "Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." (1 Peter 5:8) God of Moses: "Like a lion I will devour them." (Hosea 13:8)
God of Jesus: "Anyone who does not love his brother [is of the devil]." (1 John 3:10) God of Moses: "Go back and forth killing your brother and friend and neighbor" (Exod. 32:27)
God of Jesus: "[The devil] is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) God of Moses: "Put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours." (1 Kings 22:23)
God of Jesus: "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy." (John 10:10) God of Moses: "Pursue, kill and completely destroy them." (Jer. 50:21)
God of Jesus: "He who does what is sinful is of the devil" (1 John 3:8) God of Moses: "Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deut. 20:16)
God of Jesus: "God so loved the world.." (John 3:16) God of Moses: "I will wipe humankind ..from the face of the earth." (Gen. 6:7)
God of Jesus: "Love your enemies" (Luke 6:27-28) God of Moses: "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them." (Num. 25:16-17)
God of Jesus: "For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone" (James 1:13) God of Moses: "[He] tempted Abraham" (Gen. 22:1)
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 19, 2012 - 20:33:51
"God of Jesus: "God is love." (1 John 4:16) God of Moses: "Kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man" (Num. 31:17)
God of Jesus: "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me." (Mark 9:37) God of Moses: "Put to death men and women, children and infants" (1 Sam. 15:2-3)
God of Jesus: "Love does no harm to its neighbor" (Rom. 13:10) God of Moses: "He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the Lord, the God of Israel, had commanded." (Josh. 10:40)
God of Jesus: "[The devil] was a murderer from the beginning." (John 8:44) God of Moses: "Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children" (Ezek. 9:6)
God of Jesus: "Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." (1 Peter 5:8) God of Moses: "Like a lion I will devour them." (Hosea 13:8)
God of Jesus: "Anyone who does not love his brother [is of the devil]." (1 John 3:10) God of Moses: "Go back and forth killing your brother and friend and neighbor" (Exod. 32:27)
God of Jesus: "[The devil] is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44) God of Moses: "Put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours." (1 Kings 22:23)
God of Jesus: "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy." (John 10:10) God of Moses: "Pursue, kill and completely destroy them." (Jer. 50:21)
God of Jesus: "He who does what is sinful is of the devil" (1 John 3:8) God of Moses: "Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deut. 20:16)
God of Jesus: "God so loved the world.." (John 3:16) God of Moses: "I will wipe humankind ..from the face of the earth." (Gen. 6:7)
God of Jesus: "Love your enemies" (Luke 6:27-28) God of Moses: "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them." (Num. 25:16-17)
God of Jesus: "For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone" (James 1:13) God of Moses: "[He] tempted Abraham" (Gen. 22:1)
See? Same God. Two distinct dispensations of God.
There are no good people.
God being sinless died on a cross for us and was beaten and suffered for us. God being sinless suffered, we can not expect anything better than what God went through.
: hammer123 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 16:36:39
There are no good people.
God being sinless died on a cross for us and was beaten and suffered for us. God being sinless suffered, we can not expect anything better than what God went through.
God never required torture of sacrificed animals, so why Jesus?
If Jesus was only a blood offering why did God let Him live 30 years, when Herod could have killed Him?
Jesus purpose was to show us how to live in the Kingdom of Heaven while we are alive so we won't have bad consequences for our sins.
: Funguy33 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 17:16:01
: hammer123 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 16:36:39
There are no good people.
God being sinless died on a cross for us and was beaten and suffered for us. God being sinless suffered, we can not expect anything better than what God went through.
God never required torture of sacrificed animals, so why Jesus?
If Jesus was only a blood offering why did God let Him live 30 years, when Herod could have killed Him?
Jesus purpose was to show us how to live in the Kingdom of Heaven while we are alive so we won't have bad consequences for our sins.
So basically, you arent a believer who accepts Jesus as his saviour, and just think that Jesus was a good person.
: Funguy33 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 17:16:01
: hammer123 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 16:36:39
There are no good people.
God being sinless died on a cross for us and was beaten and suffered for us. God being sinless suffered, we can not expect anything better than what God went through.
God never required torture of sacrificed animals, so why Jesus?
If Jesus was only a blood offering why did God let Him live 30 years, when Herod could have killed Him?
Jesus purpose was to show us how to live in the Kingdom of Heaven while we are alive so we won't have bad consequences for our sins.
I never said Jesus was only a sacrifice, he was and is much more than that.
The point is the Christian life and or life in general isn't easy. God is tough, read the bible and you will understand that God is loving, but very very tough.
: Funguy33 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 17:16:01
: hammer123 Tue Sep 18, 2012 - 16:36:39
There are no good people.
God being sinless died on a cross for us and was beaten and suffered for us. God being sinless suffered, we can not expect anything better than what God went through.
God never required torture of sacrificed animals, so why Jesus?
If Jesus was only a blood offering why did God let Him live 30 years, when Herod could have killed Him?
Jesus purpose was to show us how to live in the Kingdom of Heaven while we are alive so we won't have bad consequences for our sins.
No, that most certainly was NOT Jesus' purpose in coming to Earth as a human being. He came to "destroy the work of Satan" by living the kind of perfect life we were NOT capable of living.... no matter how much someone "showed us HOW to live". (1 John 3:8)
And, then, having made himself an example of the perfection we could never be, he submitted to becoming the only possible sacrifice capable of redeeming all mankind from Eternal separation from God.
This is why so many bible students are deceived,
and the 'fear of the Lord' is almost non existent.
Most bible students fear 'Satan', because I have heard so many sermons
telling me to watch out for 'the enemy Satan'.
No matter what scripture is being read, they find a reason to bring up 'Satan'.
Why is that?
I thought the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
You have to decide who you are going to fear.
God or Satan. You have to pick one or the other.
You have to believe in the real God, or the imaginary god Satan.
There is no room for both,
because God says besides me there is 'none else'.
If you give power to some imaginary fallen angel bogeyman,
then you must fear him, because you can't see him with your visible eyes.
And if you believe that 'he'(Satan) exists, then you are into idolatry.
So I hope and pray that you will join with me in warning
others about this dangerous, wicked and idolatrous, fallen angel doctrine.
The Future of Christianity is truly at stake here.
The world will never improve, until we can,
stop blaming evil, on some imaginary
fallen angel bogeyman.
The world will never improve, until we can get rid of this
wicked and idolatrous, fallen angel doctrine.
: Funguy33 Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:10:06
Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7
Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14
What about the man who was healed in the NT and people asked Jesus Did this man sin or his parents sin cause him to be this way and Jesus said no he was born this way so that Jesus could heal him
I've always been amused by this question.
Why should we assume that "good" people are immune from adversity? ::headscratch::
: hammer123 Mon Oct 08, 2012 - 14:27:11
people asked Jesus Did this man sin or his parents sin cause him to be this way and Jesus said no he was born this way so that Jesus could heal him
Bingo. ::nodding:: Although methinks hammer needeth some lessons in grammar.
: stevehut Mon Oct 08, 2012 - 14:35:00
: hammer123 Mon Oct 08, 2012 - 14:27:11
people asked Jesus Did this man sin or his parents sin cause him to be this way and Jesus said no he was born this way so that Jesus could heal him
Bingo. ::nodding:: Although methinks hammer needeth some lessons in grammar.
I could use some help in grammar. I was too lazy to look up verses and such.