Since there are some Eastern Orthodox on this forum, thought it would be good for some to have a overview of what they believe. I am not one of them, by the way.
I will make a few comments in BLUE~RB
Eastern Orthodox Church Beliefs and Practices
By Mary Fairchild
The word orthodox means "right believing" and was adopted to signify the true religion that faithfully followed the beliefs and practices defined by the first seven ecumenical councils (dating back to the first 10 centuries). Orthodox Christianity claims to have fully preserved, without any deviation, the traditions and doctrines of the early Christian church established by the apostles. This is why they believe themselves to be the only true and "right believing" Christian faith. This is NOT one group, sect, church, etc. that can make such a claim, unless their doctrine is supported by the scriptures alone, even then, there is not a person living, who is in absolutely perfect agreement with the teachings of God's word. It is sad, but if one is honest, they must admit that they themselves are constantly being converted to a more perfect knowledge of the word of God. Also, the Lord said these words in Matthew 24:22~"And except those days be shortened, there shall be NO FLESH SAVED: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." This salvation is not speaking of depleted of individuals lives, but a practical salvation of KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING of spiritual truths. The contents of the context within this chapter will prove that point. In another scripture, I our Lord said: When the Son of man come again, will we find faith in the earth? Which proves, that true faith will be hard to find.
The primary disputes that led to the split between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church centered around Rome's deviation from the original conclusions of the seven ecumenical councils, such as the claim to a universal papal supremacy. Another particular conflict is known as the Filioque Controversy. The Latin word filioque means "and from the Son." It had been inserted into the Nicene Creed during the 6th century, thus changing the phrase pertaining to the origin of the Holy Spirit from "who proceeds from the Father" to "who proceeds from the Father and the Son." It had been added to emphasize Christ's divinity, but Eastern Christians not only objected to the altering of anything produced by the first ecumenical councils, they disagreed with its new meaning. Eastern Christians believe both the Spirit and the Son have their origin in the Father. BOTH are great errors, that has produce so much confusion concerning the Godhead. The Godhead is ONE, yet revealed to us in three distinct persons, according to the work of redemption that is revealed to us in the word of God. There is ONLY ONE Eternal Spirit, that no man has ever seen, or will ever see. The Spirit NEVER proceed from the father and Son. The Son is the EVERLASTING FATHER of all things~Isaiah 9:6, Jesus Christ IS the EXPRESS image of God. The ONLY God that we will ever see, is Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:8...God IS a Spirit, that NO ONE will ever see, nor can they. Jesus Christ was NOT eternal begotten, that within itself is a self-contradiction of terms! Enough for now.
One clear distinction between Orthodoxy and Protestantism is the concept of "Sola Scriptura." This "Scripture alone" doctrine held by Protestant faiths asserts that the Word of God alone can be clearly understood and interpreted by the individual believer and is sufficient on its own to be the final authority in Christian doctrine. Orthodoxy argues that the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance. God's children reject traditions, specially when they (false brethren) try to supersede thus saith the Lord God of heaven and earth. Christians live by every word that proceeds out of God mouth, period! This enough to help God's children to search for themselves, and to try the spirits to see if they are of God, or of the devil. There is so much more than I might pick up later and consider some points.
Another less apparent distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Christianity is their differing theological approaches, which perhaps is simply the result of cultural influences. The Eastern mindset is more inclined toward philosophy, mysticism, and ideology, whereas the Western outlook is guided more by a practical and legal mentality. This can be seen in the subtly different ways that Eastern and Western Christians approach spiritual truth. Orthodox Christians believe that truth must be personally experienced and, as a result, they place less emphasis on its precise definition.
Worship is considered the very center of church life in Eastern Orthodoxy. It is highly liturgical, embracing seven sacraments. It is characterized by a priestly and mystical nature. Veneration of icons and a mystical form of meditative prayer is commonly incorporated into their religious rituals.
More Orthodox Beliefs and Practices:
•Authority of Scripture - Orthodox Christians believe the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.
•Baptism - Orthodox Christians believe baptism is the initiator of the salvation experience. The Orthodox Church practices baptism by full immersion.
•Eucharist - The Eucharist is the center of worship in the Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that during the Eucharist believers partake mystically of Christ's body and blood and through it receive his life and strength.
•Holy Spirit - Orthodox Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the Trinity, who proceeds from the Father and is one in essence with the Father. The Holy Spirit is given by Christ as a gift to the church, to empower for service, to place God's love in our hearts, and to impart spiritual gifts for the Christian life and witness.
•Jesus Christ - Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity, God's Son, fully divine and fully human. He became flesh through Mary, but was without sin. He died on the cross as man's Savior. He resurrected and ascended to heaven. He will return to judge all men.
•Mary - Orthodox Christians believe Mary has supreme grace and is to be highly honored but they reject the doctrine of Immaculate Conception.
•Predestination - Orthodox Christians believe God has foreknowlege of man's destiny, but he does not predestine him.
•Saints and Icons - Orthodox Christians practice veneration of icons; reverence is directed toward the person they represent and not the relics themselves.
•Salvation - Orthodox Christians believe salvation is a gradual, life-long process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. This requires faith in Jesus Christ, working through love.
•The Trinity - Orthodox Christians believe there are three persons in the Godhead, each divine, distinct and equal. The Father God is the eternal head; the Son is begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
I was raised Eastern Orthodox too but I didn't really learn much about it because it was all spoken in Latin in the church I went to. Before my grandmother died, she had some very big disagreements with the church too and it's lack of teaching and I learned most about God from her. My husband say's that he is "in a fight with the popes" too and so do most of his friends who are Godly oriented, they don't go either because they don't agree with the teachings. We don't have anything to do with the church. The only thing we have left with one of Paul's first churches is my husband digging graves behind it for his parents because it's too expensive to pay someone to do it for them.
His parents aren't dead, we were just talking about this last night because his dad asked him to do it. He said it's better to be prepared because if it happens in winter it will be a lot harder to do because the ground will be frozen and way up high on the mountain it gets really cold. I asked how are you going to get your friends to help? He said he is going to invite them for bbq in the village to get them up there first. ::giggle::
Befriended?
I helped with the juice at St Marks in Nashville free of charge.
They are Egyptians that came to America for a better life. They also are known as Coptic.
They also fast a LOT. They are only supposed to eat meat 50 days of the year.
But their original Church was founded by St Mark himself.
The children were cute as they recited their liturgy in three languages. (The Lord's Prayer).
They respected my faith and I respect theirs. They know persecution firsthand.
: JohnDB Tue May 07, 2013 - 06:25:59
Befriended?
I helped with the juice at St Marks in Nashville free of charge.
They are Egyptians that came to America for a better life. They also are known as Coptic.
They also fast a LOT. They are only supposed to eat meat 50 days of the year.
But their original Church was founded by St Mark himself.
The children were cute as they recited their liturgy in three languages. (The Lord's Prayer).
They respected my faith and I respect theirs. They know persecution firsthand.
JohnDB~Maybe that title was not the best, sorry. I believe they are God fearing people in churches that over all are not sound biblically, so I will change the title, not wise what I asked. But, their doctrine are against the teaching of the scriptures, so we cannot endorse them, and will not.
RB
: Red Baker Tue May 07, 2013 - 06:49:25
: JohnDB Tue May 07, 2013 - 06:25:59
Befriended?
I helped with the juice at St Marks in Nashville free of charge.
They are Egyptians that came to America for a better life. They also are known as Coptic.
They also fast a LOT. They are only supposed to eat meat 50 days of the year.
But their original Church was founded by St Mark himself.
The children were cute as they recited their liturgy in three languages. (The Lord's Prayer).
They respected my faith and I respect theirs. They know persecution firsthand.
JohnDB~Maybe that title was not the best, sorry. I believe they are God fearing people in churches that over all are not sound biblically, so I will change the title, not wise what I asked. But, their doctrine are against the teaching of the scriptures, so we cannot endorse them, and will not.
RB
All of my husbands friends are Orthodox but they don't go to the church. One of his friends went to school to be a priest and ended up turning away from the church because of what he learned and didn't agree with how it was taught.
So we do have Orthodox friends too but not like the kind that agree with what has been added. This past Sunday was the Resurrection day, we call it the Great Day and once again God made it so that I had a legit excuse for my family to not go into that church, my child had pink eye. Next weekend they are having a Christening and now I have pink eye. But they are rushing the Christening because my cousin is about to go to jail (the child's father). I don't think Christening the baby is going to help his judgement.
: Bitter Sweet Tue May 07, 2013 - 06:12:42
I was raised Eastern Orthodox too but I didn't really learn much about it because it was all spoken in Latin in the church I went to. Before my grandmother died, she had some very big disagreements with the church too and it's lack of teaching and I learned most about God from her. My husband say's that he is "in a fight with the popes" too and so do most of his friends who are Godly oriented, they don't go either because they don't agree with the teachings. We don't have anything to do with the church. The only thing we have left with one of Paul's first churches is my husband digging graves behind it for his parents because it's too expensive to pay someone to do it for them.
His parents aren't dead, we were just talking about this last night because his dad asked him to do it. He said it's better to be prepared because if it happens in winter it will be a lot harder to do because the ground will be frozen and way up high on the mountain it gets really cold. I asked how are you going to get your friends to help? He said he is going to invite them for bbq in the village to get them up there first. ::giggle::
Greetings BitterSweet,
Your grandmother did a very good job of teaching you, it shows in your love for the scriptures. I changed the title, because I know that there God fearing children, that are not converted to the truth, yet for what ever reason, stay where they feel comfortable, and beside, God does not give every one the same measure of faith. Paul knew that there were some Jews that fear God and had a godly zeal for him, yet not according to knowledge. These men were born again, yet lack knowledge of the truth!
Romans 10:2 "For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." Back to verse one of Romans 10~Paul prayed for them that they might be
saved. This salvation that Paul prayed for
IS NOT A VITAL SALVATION, but, practical only. No man living can have a true zeal and fear of God, without being first quicken to spiritual life! Romans 3 will speak loud and clear concerning this important point.
So, I am sorry if I offended your tender spirit for the truth. Please forgive. ::prayinghard::
RB
: Red Baker Tue May 07, 2013 - 05:29:18
Since there are some Eastern Orthodox on this forum, thought it would be good for some to have a overview of what they believe. I am not one of them, by the way.
I will make a few comments in BLUE~RB
Eastern Orthodox Church Beliefs and Practices
By Mary Fairchild
The word orthodox means "right believing" and was adopted to signify the true religion that faithfully followed the beliefs and practices defined by the first seven ecumenical councils (dating back to the first 10 centuries). Orthodox Christianity claims to have fully preserved, without any deviation, the traditions and doctrines of the early Christian church established by the apostles. This is why they believe themselves to be the only true and "right believing" Christian faith. This is NOT one group, sect, church, etc. that can make such a claim, unless their doctrine is supported by the scriptures alone, even then, there is not a person living, who is in absolutely perfect agreement with the teachings of God's word. It is sad, but if one is honest, they must admit that they themselves are constantly being converted to a more perfect knowledge of the word of God. Also, the Lord said these words in Matthew 24:22~"And except those days be shortened, there shall be NO FLESH SAVED: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." This salvation is not speaking of depleted of individuals lives, but a practical salvation of KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING of spiritual truths. The contents of the context within this chapter will prove that point. In another scripture, I our Lord said: When the Son of man come again, will we find faith in the earth? Which proves, that true faith will be hard to find.
The primary disputes that led to the split between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church centered around Rome's deviation from the original conclusions of the seven ecumenical councils, such as the claim to a universal papal supremacy. Another particular conflict is known as the Filioque Controversy. The Latin word filioque means "and from the Son." It had been inserted into the Nicene Creed during the 6th century, thus changing the phrase pertaining to the origin of the Holy Spirit from "who proceeds from the Father" to "who proceeds from the Father and the Son." It had been added to emphasize Christ's divinity, but Eastern Christians not only objected to the altering of anything produced by the first ecumenical councils, they disagreed with its new meaning. Eastern Christians believe both the Spirit and the Son have their origin in the Father. BOTH are great errors, that has produce so much confusion concerning the Godhead. The Godhead is ONE, yet revealed to us in three distinct persons, according to the work of redemption that is revealed to us in the word of God. There is ONLY ONE Eternal Spirit, that no man has ever seen, or will ever see. The Spirit NEVER proceed from the father and Son. The Son is the EVERLASTING FATHER of all things~Isaiah 9:6, Jesus Christ IS the EXPRESS image of God. The ONLY God that we will ever see, is Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:8...God IS a Spirit, that NO ONE will ever see, nor can they. Jesus Christ was NOT eternal begotten, that within itself is a self-contradiction of terms! Enough for now.
One clear distinction between Orthodoxy and Protestantism is the concept of "Sola Scriptura." This "Scripture alone" doctrine held by Protestant faiths asserts that the Word of God alone can be clearly understood and interpreted by the individual believer and is sufficient on its own to be the final authority in Christian doctrine. Orthodoxy argues that the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance. God's children reject traditions, specially when they (false brethren) try to supersede thus saith the Lord God of heaven and earth. Christians live by every word that proceeds out of God mouth, period! This enough to help God's children to search for themselves, and to try the spirits to see if they are of God, or of the devil. There is so much more than I might pick up later and consider some points.
Another less apparent distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Christianity is their differing theological approaches, which perhaps is simply the result of cultural influences. The Eastern mindset is more inclined toward philosophy, mysticism, and ideology, whereas the Western outlook is guided more by a practical and legal mentality. This can be seen in the subtly different ways that Eastern and Western Christians approach spiritual truth. Orthodox Christians believe that truth must be personally experienced and, as a result, they place less emphasis on its precise definition.
Worship is considered the very center of church life in Eastern Orthodoxy. It is highly liturgical, embracing seven sacraments. It is characterized by a priestly and mystical nature. Veneration of icons and a mystical form of meditative prayer is commonly incorporated into their religious rituals.
More Orthodox Beliefs and Practices:
•Authority of Scripture - Orthodox Christians believe the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.
•Baptism - Orthodox Christians believe baptism is the initiator of the salvation experience. The Orthodox Church practices baptism by full immersion.
•Eucharist - The Eucharist is the center of worship in the Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that during the Eucharist believers partake mystically of Christ's body and blood and through it receive his life and strength.
•Holy Spirit - Orthodox Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the Trinity, who proceeds from the Father and is one in essence with the Father. The Holy Spirit is given by Christ as a gift to the church, to empower for service, to place God's love in our hearts, and to impart spiritual gifts for the Christian life and witness.
•Jesus Christ - Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity, God's Son, fully divine and fully human. He became flesh through Mary, but was without sin. He died on the cross as man's Savior. He resurrected and ascended to heaven. He will return to judge all men.
•Mary - Orthodox Christians believe Mary has supreme grace and is to be highly honored but they reject the doctrine of Immaculate Conception.
•Predestination - Orthodox Christians believe God has foreknowlege of man's destiny, but he does not predestine him.
•Saints and Icons - Orthodox Christians practice veneration of icons; reverence is directed toward the person they represent and not the relics themselves.
•Salvation - Orthodox Christians believe salvation is a gradual, life-long process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. This requires faith in Jesus Christ, working through love.
•The Trinity - Orthodox Christians believe there are three persons in the Godhead, each divine, distinct and equal. The Father God is the eternal head; the Son is begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
a whole post with the implication that Eastern Orthodoxy is a false religion and you have yet to list an unscriptural, false teaching. Stick to facts, not your opinion.
I'm pretty good friends with someone who is a part of the Coptic Church,one main thing I get from him is they are NOT friends with the Roman Catholic Church.They think Christ has been perverted by the Roman Church,and have lead many to hell in things that have taught and do.
We're using Mary Fairchild, a Calvary administrative assistant, as our starting point?
No wonder.
: Red Baker Tue May 07, 2013 - 07:02:41
So, I am sorry if I offended your tender spirit for the truth. Please forgive. ::prayinghard::
RB
You haven't offended me at all.
What I find offensive is when people tell me I should go to church by finding another one, not follow my husbands lead and not doing what the bible says.
Ephesians 4:14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and
blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
: JohnDB Tue May 07, 2013 - 06:25:59
They respected my faith and I respect theirs. They know persecution firsthand.
I was reading an article on Yahoo the other day about persecution not being against religious beliefs but happens because of disagreement with governments and laws. Aren't we supposed to be taken to court as a result of it? And then God gives us to words to say then instead of planning a case to defend ourselves?
Isn't that what happened to Jesus just after he cussed out the money changers? It wasn't religious it was political?
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 07:41:00
: Red Baker Tue May 07, 2013 - 05:29:18
Since there are some Eastern Orthodox on this forum, thought it would be good for some to have a overview of what they believe. I am not one of them, by the way.
I will make a few comments in BLUE~RB
Eastern Orthodox Church Beliefs and Practices
By Mary Fairchild
The word orthodox means "right believing" and was adopted to signify the true religion that faithfully followed the beliefs and practices defined by the first seven ecumenical councils (dating back to the first 10 centuries). Orthodox Christianity claims to have fully preserved, without any deviation, the traditions and doctrines of the early Christian church established by the apostles. This is why they believe themselves to be the only true and "right believing" Christian faith. This is NOT one group, sect, church, etc. that can make such a claim, unless their doctrine is supported by the scriptures alone, even then, there is not a person living, who is in absolutely perfect agreement with the teachings of God's word. It is sad, but if one is honest, they must admit that they themselves are constantly being converted to a more perfect knowledge of the word of God. Also, the Lord said these words in Matthew 24:22~"And except those days be shortened, there shall be NO FLESH SAVED: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." This salvation is not speaking of depleted of individuals lives, but a practical salvation of KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING of spiritual truths. The contents of the context within this chapter will prove that point. In another scripture, I our Lord said: When the Son of man come again, will we find faith in the earth? Which proves, that true faith will be hard to find.
The primary disputes that led to the split between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church centered around Rome's deviation from the original conclusions of the seven ecumenical councils, such as the claim to a universal papal supremacy. Another particular conflict is known as the Filioque Controversy. The Latin word filioque means "and from the Son." It had been inserted into the Nicene Creed during the 6th century, thus changing the phrase pertaining to the origin of the Holy Spirit from "who proceeds from the Father" to "who proceeds from the Father and the Son." It had been added to emphasize Christ's divinity, but Eastern Christians not only objected to the altering of anything produced by the first ecumenical councils, they disagreed with its new meaning. Eastern Christians believe both the Spirit and the Son have their origin in the Father. BOTH are great errors, that has produce so much confusion concerning the Godhead. The Godhead is ONE, yet revealed to us in three distinct persons, according to the work of redemption that is revealed to us in the word of God. There is ONLY ONE Eternal Spirit, that no man has ever seen, or will ever see. The Spirit NEVER proceed from the father and Son. The Son is the EVERLASTING FATHER of all things~Isaiah 9:6, Jesus Christ IS the EXPRESS image of God. The ONLY God that we will ever see, is Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:8...God IS a Spirit, that NO ONE will ever see, nor can they. Jesus Christ was NOT eternal begotten, that within itself is a self-contradiction of terms! Enough for now.
One clear distinction between Orthodoxy and Protestantism is the concept of "Sola Scriptura." This "Scripture alone" doctrine held by Protestant faiths asserts that the Word of God alone can be clearly understood and interpreted by the individual believer and is sufficient on its own to be the final authority in Christian doctrine. Orthodoxy argues that the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance. God's children reject traditions, specially when they (false brethren) try to supersede thus saith the Lord God of heaven and earth. Christians live by every word that proceeds out of God mouth, period! This enough to help God's children to search for themselves, and to try the spirits to see if they are of God, or of the devil. There is so much more than I might pick up later and consider some points.
Another less apparent distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Christianity is their differing theological approaches, which perhaps is simply the result of cultural influences. The Eastern mindset is more inclined toward philosophy, mysticism, and ideology, whereas the Western outlook is guided more by a practical and legal mentality. This can be seen in the subtly different ways that Eastern and Western Christians approach spiritual truth. Orthodox Christians believe that truth must be personally experienced and, as a result, they place less emphasis on its precise definition.
Worship is considered the very center of church life in Eastern Orthodoxy. It is highly liturgical, embracing seven sacraments. It is characterized by a priestly and mystical nature. Veneration of icons and a mystical form of meditative prayer is commonly incorporated into their religious rituals.
More Orthodox Beliefs and Practices:
•Authority of Scripture - Orthodox Christians believe the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.
•Baptism - Orthodox Christians believe baptism is the initiator of the salvation experience. The Orthodox Church practices baptism by full immersion.
•Eucharist - The Eucharist is the center of worship in the Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that during the Eucharist believers partake mystically of Christ's body and blood and through it receive his life and strength.
•Holy Spirit - Orthodox Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the Trinity, who proceeds from the Father and is one in essence with the Father. The Holy Spirit is given by Christ as a gift to the church, to empower for service, to place God's love in our hearts, and to impart spiritual gifts for the Christian life and witness.
•Jesus Christ - Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity, God's Son, fully divine and fully human. He became flesh through Mary, but was without sin. He died on the cross as man's Savior. He resurrected and ascended to heaven. He will return to judge all men.
•Mary - Orthodox Christians believe Mary has supreme grace and is to be highly honored but they reject the doctrine of Immaculate Conception.
•Predestination - Orthodox Christians believe God has foreknowlege of man's destiny, but he does not predestine him.
•Saints and Icons - Orthodox Christians practice veneration of icons; reverence is directed toward the person they represent and not the relics themselves.
•Salvation - Orthodox Christians believe salvation is a gradual, life-long process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. This requires faith in Jesus Christ, working through love.
•The Trinity - Orthodox Christians believe there are three persons in the Godhead, each divine, distinct and equal. The Father God is the eternal head; the Son is begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
a whole post with the implication that Eastern Orthodoxy is a false religion and you have yet to list an unscriptural, false teaching. Stick to facts, not your opinion.
Thaddaeus,
I try to be kind and easy on people overall, yet with people like you, who themselves are very hard on everyone, with very little kind words or patience toward any one who is not of your faith
exactly~ you force other people to be very firm and hit hard back. So, if you believe that your church
is the only true church with pure doctrine, then I will gladly debate you on the Sonship of Jesus Christ~since John said that it is a very important doctrine of the Christian faith.
1 John 5:7-10; 2 John 7,8 Or, your "strange fire teaching" that Jesus Christ's death
saved all men, yet, man must do this and this and this, to be saved! STRANGE FIRE INDEED You, and many like you, do not know how to rightly divide scriptures concerning the words:
all, saved/save/salvation, etc. I know, I have read many of your post.
RB
: HRoberson Tue May 07, 2013 - 08:24:29
We're using Mary Fairchild, a Calvary administrative assistant, as our starting point?
No wonder.
http://christianity.about.com/bio/Mary-Fairchild-16017.htm (http://christianity.about.com/bio/Mary-Fairchild-16017.htm)
Another one of those "nice" comments, eh? Well, she's not of the Churches of Christ and we know that those Calvary Chapel people are evangelical and don't promote salvation by water, even though Chuck Smith has likely lost count of the thousands of people in southern California that he personally baptized by water.
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
: notreligus Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:11:18
: HRoberson Tue May 07, 2013 - 08:24:29
We're using Mary Fairchild, a Calvary administrative assistant, as our starting point?
No wonder.
http://christianity.about.com/bio/Mary-Fairchild-16017.htm (http://christianity.about.com/bio/Mary-Fairchild-16017.htm)
Another one of those "nice" comments, eh? Well, she's not of the Churches of Christ and we know that those Calvary Chapel people are evangelical and don't promote salvation by water, even though Chuck Smith has likely lost count of the thousands of people in southern California that he personally baptized by water.
You object to the observation that the argument is based on a flat post by an admistrative assistant? Why are you rambling on about baptism and Smith?
I thought the article was more fair without the comments added, so here is a reprint.
Eastern Orthodox Church Beliefs and Practices
By Mary Fairchild
The word orthodox means "right believing" and was adopted to signify the true religion that faithfully followed the beliefs and practices defined by the first seven ecumenical councils (dating back to the first 10 centuries). Orthodox Christianity claims to have fully preserved, without any deviation, the traditions and doctrines of the early Christian church established by the apostles. This is why they believe themselves to be the only true and "right believing" Christian faith.
The primary disputes that led to the split between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church centered around Rome's deviation from the original conclusions of the seven ecumenical councils, such as the claim to a universal papal supremacy. Another particular conflict is known as the Filioque Controversy. The Latin word filioque means "and from the Son." It had been inserted into the Nicene Creed during the 6th century, thus changing the phrase pertaining to the origin of the Holy Spirit from "who proceeds from the Father" to "who proceeds from the Father and the Son." It had been added to emphasize Christ's divinity, but Eastern Christians not only objected to the altering of anything produced by the first ecumenical councils, they disagreed with its new meaning. Eastern Christians believe both the Spirit and the Son have their origin in the Father.
One clear distinction between Orthodoxy and Protestantism is the concept of "Sola Scriptura." This "Scripture alone" doctrine held by Protestant faiths asserts that the Word of God alone can be clearly understood and interpreted by the individual believer and is sufficient on its own to be the final authority in Christian doctrine. Orthodoxy argues that the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.
Another less apparent distinction between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Christianity is their differing theological approaches, which perhaps is simply the result of cultural influences. The Eastern mindset is more inclined toward philosophy, mysticism, and ideology, whereas the Western outlook is guided more by a practical and legal mentality. This can be seen in the subtly different ways that Eastern and Western Christians approach spiritual truth. Orthodox Christians believe that truth must be personally experienced and, as a result, they place less emphasis on its precise definition.
Worship is considered the very center of church life in Eastern Orthodoxy. It is highly liturgical, embracing seven sacraments. It is characterized by a priestly and mystical nature. Veneration of icons and a mystical form of meditative prayer is commonly incorporated into their religious rituals.
More Orthodox Beliefs and Practices:
•Authority of Scripture - Orthodox Christians believe the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teaching in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.
•Baptism - Orthodox Christians believe baptism is the initiator of the salvation experience. The Orthodox Church practices baptism by full immersion.
•Eucharist - The Eucharist is the center of worship in the Orthodox Church. Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that during the Eucharist believers partake mystically of Christ's body and blood and through it receive his life and strength.
•Holy Spirit - Orthodox Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is one of the persons of the Trinity, who proceeds from the Father and is one in essence with the Father. The Holy Spirit is given by Christ as a gift to the church, to empower for service, to place God's love in our hearts, and to impart spiritual gifts for the Christian life and witness.
•Jesus Christ - Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity, God's Son, fully divine and fully human. He became flesh through Mary, but was without sin. He died on the cross as man's Savior. He resurrected and ascended to heaven. He will return to judge all men.
•Mary - Orthodox Christians believe Mary has supreme grace and is to be highly honored but they reject the doctrine of Immaculate Conception.
•Predestination - Orthodox Christians believe God has foreknowlege of man's destiny, but he does not predestine him.
•Saints and Icons - Orthodox Christians practice veneration of icons; reverence is directed toward the person they represent and not the relics themselves.
•Salvation - Orthodox Christians believe salvation is a gradual, life-long process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. This requires faith in Jesus Christ, working through love.
•The Trinity - Orthodox Christians believe there are three persons in the Godhead, each divine, distinct and equal. The Father God is the eternal head; the Son is begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
Red Baker,
I try to be kind and easy on people overall, yet with people like you, who themselves are very hard on everyone, with very little kind words or patience toward any one who is not of your faith exactly~ you force other people to be very firm and hit hard back. So, if you believe that your church is the only true church with pure doctrine, then I will gladly debate you on the Sonship of Jesus Christ~since John said that it is a very important doctrine of the Christian faith. 1 John 5:7-10; 2 John 7,8 Or, your "strange fire teaching" that Jesus Christ's death saved all men, yet, man must do this and this and this, to be saved! STRANGE FIRE INDEED You, and many like you, do not know how to rightly divide scriptures concerning the words: all, saved/save/salvation, etc. I know, I have read many of your post.
You make huge assertions with very little facts. You have yet to point out just one false teaching of the Orthodox Church with evidence that it is false. Keep to the facts, not your opinion.
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
Thaddaeus,
"The Trinity - Orthodox Christians believe there are three persons in the Godhead, each divine, distinct and equal. The Father God is the eternal head; the Son is begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. "
You believe your church is the only true church on earth~ Is this correct or wrong? The statement above, do you agree with it, or no? I want to prove to you that your church is not as pure as you think. By saying that, I am not judging their eternal state, of being God's children or not, that is not for me to judge, even though, God's true church ( which are all born again believers in Jesus Christ, who are trusting his righteousness for the reward of the world to come) have the right and the ability to bind and to loose on earth, the doctrines of men.
John 20:23
"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."
True children of God, have the spiritual insight to know truth and to know error~they are spiritual discerned, by having the Holy Ghost within them. (1 Corinthians 2:1-6) "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." God's children have this gift, yet others who do not, cannot even judge that they DO, or that they are even of God!
So if you believe that your Orthodox religion is the only true religion, and that everyone has forsaken you, then let us take the confession above, if that is your church's profession and test it with the with the word of truth.
Or, you chose you one, and I will use the scriptures to tell you why I am not of your faith, that you so much trust in. I do have a religion and it is the one that Paul defended in Galatians 2-5. It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed. We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc. We believe that some of us are in many faiths, just not fully converted fully, and may never be. We make a clear distinction between regeneration, and conversion. One happens immediately, the other a life long process, that is never fully competed in any man. We all will die with some errors. But one main truth we all believe in~that is: Free justification is through the obedience of ONE, not two! Not me and Jesus, but Jesus alone. Romans 5:19
RB
The Eastern Orthodox is also somewhat like the Catholic church in that they are still an umbrella organization with varying practices and beliefs in the individual churches.
The name "Eastern" comes from the fact that these churches were East of Rome/Europe when the split occurred. There were also some disagreements over the calendar with the Catholic church during the split (if my memory serves properly).
Some of the unique things about the Coptics that I am friends with were the liturgy. They say them in three languages. Arabic, latin, and English. I've been told that some do French or Spanish litugical recitals as well.
One of the unique things as well was the leader of the Church. He wore all black robes (white inner robe) & a black turban. The members would make an attempt to kiss either his hand or a ring on it (unsure) but before they could he would pull back his hand quickly making it a failed attempt every time. As if this was their customary greeting. I simply shook his hand when greeting him.
They were immensely grateful for the help and assistance I provided them. They said I was the first American to donate time & services. They were saying that some of the places I was walking soon would be off limits to all except the head pastor. They also had some kind of special reverence for a painting of Mark which had portions of gold leaf in the painting. I wanted to take it down due to the dust from drilling but they almost had a "come apart" over my desire to. So it got some dust on it.
They fed me burgers & etc while they couldn't eat meat for Lent. They were extremely hospitable. Their devotion to God is extreme. They have been persecuted by moslems and many have died for the name of Christ.
Sure they come from the middle east, they speak arabic, they are olive complctioned but they are anything but Moslem. They only wish to join American Christians in worshipping God. Right now the bigotry stemming from moslem terrorists is hampering their efforts. The cultural divide is also alarming to them. (They find ours troubling)
I only know one living Greek Orthodox Christian. He demonstrates absolutely no fruit of the spirit that I have ever seen. My former next door neighbors were Russian Orthodox. I have met atheists that sinned less than them. I assume there are some somewhere that have received Christ.
Ben
: Ben Tue May 07, 2013 - 16:11:12
I only know one living Greek Orthodox Christian. He demonstrates absolutely no fruit of the spirit that I have ever seen. My former next door neighbors were Russian Orthodox. I have met atheists that sinned less than them. I assume there are some somewhere that have received Christ.
Ben
And this demonstrates, what exactly? Shall we discuss Ted Haggard, or Jimmy Swaggert? How about those nice Baptists that hold up hate signs and rejoice that people get killed, or maybe Jim Bakker and company?
: Ben Tue May 07, 2013 - 16:11:12
I only know one living Greek Orthodox Christian. He demonstrates absolutely no fruit of the spirit that I have ever seen. My former next door neighbors were Russian Orthodox. I have met atheists that sinned less than them. I assume there are some somewhere that have received Christ.
Ben
I think the same thing about people from Connecticut.
Everyone I have ever met that came from there has been the biggest self righteous jerk you would ever want to meet. I am sure that they have some humble Christians there somewhere...I just haven't met any of them yet.
Red Baker,
"The Trinity - Orthodox Christians believe there are three persons in the Godhead, each divine, distinct and equal. The Father God is the eternal head; the Son is begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. "
You believe your church is the only true church on earth~ Is this correct or wrong? The statement above, do you agree with it, or no? I want to prove to you that your church is not as pure as you think.
Yes, and yes.
Now, where is the false teaching?
Or, you chose you one, and I will use the scriptures to tell you why I am not of your faith, that you so much trust in. I do have a religion and it is the one that Paul defended in Galatians 2-5. It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed. We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc. We believe that some of us are in many faiths, just not fully converted fully, and may never be. We make a clear distinction between regeneration, and conversion. One happens immediately, the other a life long process, that is never fully competed in any man. We all will die with some errors. But one main truth we all believe in~that is: Free justification is through the obedience of ONE, not two! Not me and Jesus, but Jesus alone. Romans 5:19
its nice I suppose to create your own religion and I'm glad you feel secure in what you have developed or at least following someone else's developed religion. I suspect, the Orthodox would be incorrect in a lot, if not all things, based on your man made version of a self proclaimed religion.
Yours is just another of many others that have cropped up in the sola scriptura melieu. You seem to be the self proclaimed pope of that church and your word is infallible.
I'll just stick to the Gospel of Christ as it was given once to the saints and has been preserved in his Body from the beginning. I'm into the real thing, not an immitation at best, worse just another man made religion.
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
I agree.
I'll add the 'high' churches within Anglicanism there.
Thaddaeus,
Thaddaeus you said~#1: "its nice I suppose to create your own religion"~No, I do not think, or believe that the disciples of Jesus Christ, have any right whatsoever to say even one word in a way of proclaiming truth, if they cannot support their word (s) with holy scriptures from heaven. So, do not accuse those who refuse to submit to traditions, men's opinions, and men's false teachings, as though they have their own religion, which is different from yours, and the one that you glory in.
#2~"I'm glad you feel secure in what you have developed or at least following someone else's developed religion."~I have not developed any doctrine, and, surely not following what any man developed. Read my post to you, where I stated clearly these words:
"It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed. We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc."
And yes, I feel totally secure in this religion of Jesus Christ. As a believer in the scriptures, I trust completely in the obedience of one, for my hope of eternal life in the world to come. It is a religion, built upon the foundations of the apostles of Jesus Christ, who were the wise masterbuilders, guided skillfully by the Holy Ghost. In my religion, Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone, and those who put their trust in him alone shall never be confounded, world without end. We know that the works of the flesh is no hiding place, we trust in the obedience of Jesus Christ, and the free grace of God, that purposed and planned our glorious redemption through his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
#3~"Yours is just another of many others that have cropped up in the sola scriptura melieu"~Well, every true saint of God, do trust in the scriptures alone, and not in man's vain and wicked doctrines that many are base upon a spirit that thinks it is wiser than what is written, and a spirit that is base upon what appeals to the flesh of man, more than to his spirit.
Matthew 4:4
"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
This is so plain, that only a blinded traditionalist would try to argue with one quoting this verse.
Matthew 15:3-13, read all of these verses, but I will only quote one, for the sake of time and space.
"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"
The Lord Jesus spent much of his time refuting these self righteous Pharisees and Jews by them leaving the word of God and teaching for doctrines~(v9) the commandments of vain and wicked men, who trusted so much in their works to be accepted before God.
#4~"You seem to be the self proclaimed pope of that church and your word is infallible." Well, again, you have me tagged wrong. I am a wicked sinner, saved by the grace of God, and I battle sin every day that I live in this body of death, but I do glory and praise God, and can say with Paul:
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.
Romans 7:24,25
#5~"I'll just stick to the Gospel of Christ"~Thaddaeus, your gospel is another gospel that is base upon: "THIS DO AND LIVE", the gospel of Christ, said: JESUS PAID IT ALL, THERE IS NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO OR SHOULD DO, BUT TO BELIEVE IN THIS GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF PEACE AND GRACE, FREELY GIVEN! I might add: that our believing is only an evidence that one posses this great salvation purchased by Jesus Christ. John 5:24 and notice carefully the verb tenses in that scripture.
#6~"I'm into the real thing, not an immitation at best, worse just another man made religion"~my words to you are: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:...." 2 Peter 1:10
RB
: JohnDB Tue May 07, 2013 - 18:13:16
: Ben Tue May 07, 2013 - 16:11:12
I only know one living Greek Orthodox Christian. He demonstrates absolutely no fruit of the spirit that I have ever seen. My former next door neighbors were Russian Orthodox. I have met atheists that sinned less than them. I assume there are some somewhere that have received Christ.
Ben
I think the same thing about people from Connecticut.
Everyone I have ever met that came from there has been the biggest self righteous jerk you would ever want to meet. I am sure that they have some humble Christians there somewhere...I just haven't met any of them yet.
JohnDB,
There is not much very good that does come out of the Northeast, but 1-95 heading south~But, I do have a son-law that is very good, and he's from Connecticut. But, before him and my second daughter got very serious, I set him down and was very frank with him on many issues. They have been married for almost twenty years with four beautiful sons.
Your words reminded me of what Nathanael said to Philip:
John 1:46And Nathanael said unto him, An any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see." Also, notice what Jesus said of Nathanael! John 1:47 He did have not a judgmental attitude, but a very good spiritual insight!
RB
Red Baker,
No, I do not think, or believe that the disciples of Jesus Christ, have any right whatsoever to say even one word in a way of proclaiming truth, if they cannot support their word (s) with holy scriptures from heaven. So, do not accuse those who refuse to submit to traditions, men's opinions, and men's false teachings, as though they have their own religion, which is different from yours, and the one that you glory in.
You are quite rediculous. Do you not know that the scriptures were written by those Apostles. And you asking them to support what they say with scripture?
I no longer submit to the traditions of men, others or myself. Yet, this is exactly what you are doing. You are submitting either to your own tradition, or some other person's tradition. Which is precisely what you are ranting against.
Let's be honest, you have created or hold to a man made self proclaimed tradition.
I have not developed any doctrine, and, surely not following what any man developed. Read my post to you, where I stated clearly these words:
"It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed. We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc."
and how is this not a created, developed, religion and doctrine of men? Who is making this pronouncement, you or some other guy?
And yes, I feel totally secure in this religion of Jesus Christ. As a believer in the scriptures, I trust completely in the obedience of one, for my hope of eternal life in the world to come. It is a religion, built upon the foundations of the apostles of Jesus Christ, who were the wise masterbuilders, guided skillfully by the Holy Ghost.
I'm glad you do. You believe in some man made interpretation of a text.
Your claim is made by every sola scripturist over the last 500 years beginning with Luther and possibly ending with your man made religion. There will be yet another tomorrow that is even better than yours but will be quite different.
In my religion, Jesus Christ is the chief corner stone, and those who put their trust in him alone shall never be confounded, world without end. We know that the works of the flesh is no hiding place, we trust in the obedience of Jesus Christ, and the free grace of God, that purposed and planned our glorious redemption through his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.
I think you have shown without a shadow of a doubt that it is all yours and has very little to do with scripture as given by the Holy Spirit inspiring the Apostles.
Well, every true saint of God, do trust in the scriptures alone, and not in man's vain and wicked doctrines that many are base upon a spirit that thinks it is wiser than what is written, and a spirit that is base upon what appeals to the flesh of man, more than to his spirit.
I don't trust in scriptures at all. I Trust in the Truth, Christ is the Truth and the way, not scriptures. I think the phrase says a lot about a true sola scripturist. They believe in the Bible, but only as a source, or ground, to develop their own brand of a religion.
Seems most of what you have written here is pointed straight at you. You have described yourself quite accurately.
"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
which is NOT just scriptures.
This is so plain, that only a blinded traditionalist would try to argue with one quoting this verse.
I don't know about traditionalist, as I don't see you as one, but you are describing yourself again.
"But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"
and then you forthwith violate those very words and create/develop a whole new and inproved tradition/tradition of men.
The Church has tradition also, but that is not the Gospel of Christ. Holy Tradition is the oral revelation of the Apostles to the early Church. Scriptures were derived from that Oral Tradition. Huge difference, but then sola scripturists are not known for being accurate.
The Lord Jesus spent much of his time refuting these self righteous Pharisees and Jews by them leaving the word of God and teaching for doctrines~(v9) the commandments of vain and wicked men, who trusted so much in their works to be accepted before God.
and now you have added to the number.
#5~"I'll just stick to the Gospel of Christ"~Thaddaeus, your gospel is another gospel that is base upon: "THIS DO AND LIVE", the gospel of Christ, said: JESUS PAID IT ALL, THERE IS NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO OR SHOULD DO, BUT TO BELIEVE IN THIS GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF PEACE AND GRACE, FREELY GIVEN! I might add: that our believing is only an evidence that one posses this great salvation purchased by Jesus Christ. John 5:24 and notice carefully the verb tenses in that scripture.
so you claim, but have yet to show any evidence that it is NOT the Gospel of Christ as He gave and preserved.
You have, however, clearly shown that you have established a new religion of man, either you or someone, even picked a phrase to use as a mantra. Not much different than all the rest of sola scripturists who proclaim their religion superior to that of the Holy Spirit.
You just don't like something that you did not create or worse, is a gospel much more agreeable with your sensibilities. Sounds much like other modern men who don't like the responsibility that they were created to use. They much rather put responsibility on others so they seemingly don't become liable for their own actions. This is true modern humanism. This is the norm today in the US in our legiteous legal system.
#6~"I'm into the real thing, not an immitation at best, worse just another man made religion"~my words to you are: "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:...." 2 Peter 1:10
You should take your own advice and follow Christ, not some man made, modern version of a gospel.
You have not shown even one false teaching of the Orthodox as yet. You are so busy proclaiming your own religion and showing how many ways it is unscriptural. What was the purpose of the OP. Just a better way to introduce another false teaching?
Thaddaues You said: #1~"Do you not know that the scriptures were written by those Apostles. And you asking them to support what they say with scripture?"
When I said these words: "I do not think, or believe that the disciples of Jesus Christ, have any right whatsoever to say even one word in a way of proclaiming truth, if they cannot support their word (s) with holy scriptures from heaven"~I was not referring to the apostles, but to born again children of God, then too are the disciples of the Lord Jesus. Not sure how you could not follow something as simple as that.
I am not going to go back and play games with someone who uses almost no scriptures, but a bunch words to no profit. Some men argue to prove doctrines, which is a good thing; others argue to be just arguing, to try to hinder those who have truth and speak it. It is clear, that you are such a person. Acts 13:45! and there are others.
Since you will not give certain specific that you feel strongly in defending, then I will take some of your twisted views and expose them. Maybe in the morning.
RB
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Lively Stone,
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
so you say, but can never muster any evidence to back it up.
as it leans heavily toward tradition,
anything that exists have a tradition. However, the Church Christ founded has what is known as HOLY TRADITION. This is refering to the Original Gospel as it was Orally given, from which the scriptures are actually derived.
YOu should study early Church history, you might even be enlightened and your responses might have some value, rather than unfounded assertions and/or misunderstood statements.
the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
two more unfounded, or at best ignorant statements. Do you have anything of value to contribute here.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
which is your misunderstanding again. We are to seek for Christ, for the Truth, and the Holy Spirit will lead all to conviction, but man must decide. ONCe one finds that Pearl of Great Price, one no longer needs to seek. We are to rest IN HIS TRUTH.
What we are not to do is create our own truth from the written portion of THE TRUTH.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture,
The Church has never needed to interpret scripture the way you are understanding it. It was given to the Church by the Holy Spirit ONCE. It was necessary for the Church to further claify that Gospel in light of the several false teachings that were attempted to be foisted upon it by false teachers. But even that clarification was done by the Body, not an individual. Man has never had authority over scripture, only the Holy Spirit through the Body.
What seems a barrier is that you do not desire to have a relationship with the ONE True Christ, that He revealed, rather you prefer some man made developed religion.
that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth.
No bishop or Priest has the authority to interpret scripture. They do disseminate the Truth ONCE given. That is their responsibility. The ground and pillar of truth is the Church. I Tim 3:15. It NEVER says man is the ground of that Truth.
Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
They have already accepted that Truth. What all beleivers need to do is use scripture to apply that Truth to their daily lives. It is not the purpose of a beleiver to constantly search for some additional truth on their own. That is why and how false doctrines, theories, and all the choas sola scriptura hass generated because you have forsaken the Truth and seek you own Truth from a text, which is only the written portion of Holy Tradition.
since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
If ONE has the Truth, believes in the Giver of that Truth, what other truth must we seek?Of course, if one does not actually want the Truth of scripture, then one needs to fabricate one of their own, though based on a text, which then produces all the thousands of gospels we have in the sola scriptura melieu.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is.
It might be wiser to study early Church history so one does not make such an uninformed statement. The dogma, the doctrines, the practice, the Gospel(revelation) all came before the text. The Early Church did not use a Bible, they had none. That is why it is called Holy (oral) Traditiion. Even after the first century it was not necessary to use a text the way you use it. The bible as a Canon does not appear until the end of the 4th century.
Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
that is application, not interpretation. ONe does not need to find out what the text means when it was given to the Church in the beginning. But that does not rule out that we all read and study for application of that Truth to our lives.
The sola scripturist is trying to find out what it means, the application is not even in the picture.
Red Baker,
When I said these words: "I do not think, or believe that the disciples of Jesus Christ, have any right whatsoever to say even one word in a way of proclaiming truth, if they cannot support their word (s) with holy scriptures from heaven"~
no individual was ever given the right to interpret scripture the way you are inferring, with scripture or without scripture. That is wholly a protestant mantra, unscriptual at that.
A sola scripturist does not "use" scripture, but rather his own interpretation of that scripture and usually twists scripture to say what they need it to say.
It is why the Revelation, the Gospel of Christ has never changed over the last 2000 years within the Body of Christ. The Holy Spirit through the Body has not permitted any man to impose his own interpretation upon scripture. You think that you have the right to guess, thus invaribly change what the Gospel has always meant.
YOu are superceding the authority of Christ as Head of the Church and the protector,the Holy Spirit.
I am not going to go back and play games with someone who uses almost no scriptures, but a bunch words to no profit.
the ball is in your park. You are the one who claimed the Orthodox were false, and have yet to give one false teaching.
YOu also have simply made philosophical statements and assertions, statements that don't require refutation with texts.
Some men argue to prove doctrines, which is a good thing; others argue to be just arguing, to try to hinder those who have truth and speak it. It is clear, that you are such a person.
You have not proved anything except a lot of bluster from you.
Since you will not give certain specific that you feel strongly in defending, then I will take some of your twisted views and expose them. Maybe in the morning. It is your OP.
I'll await your listing what you perceive as false along with the evidence to show it is false.
: HRoberson Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity. They do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....something that Jesus Himself spoke rather harshly about---as did Paul under God's inspiration. So, they fall outside of Christianity.
Mark 7:8For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition.
Colossians 2:8Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
Any doctrine or thinking that doesn't coincide with Jesus---throw it out, turn away.
: Lively Stone Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50
: HRoberson Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity. They do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....something that Jesus Himself spoke rather harshly about---as did Paul under God's inspiration. So, they fall outside of Christianity.
Mark 7:8
For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition.
Colossians 2:8
Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
Any doctrine or thinking that doesn't coincide with Jesus---throw it out, turn away.
They do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....
In order to be man's tradition, which man or men formulated which doctrine(s) in the Orthodox Church.
Let's not make this another unfounded, and unsupported assertion.
So, they fall outside of Christianity.
So what is your definition of "Christianity", Lutheranism? Calvinism? Zwinglism? John Knox(Presbyterianism),Jacob Arminius( Arminianism), Michael Servetus (Unitarianism), Russellism(Jehovah Witnesses)? Eddyism(Christian Science)? Whiteism(Seventh Day Adventist)? Thomasism (Christadelphians)? Parhamism(Pentecostals)? Murrayism (Universalist)?
And we should not forget (Stoneism).
I can go on. Everyone of these claims to be based on the Word of God (scriptures), so by your definition, these are NOT man made traditions but Christianity.
True Christianity is not a religion rife with regulations and man-made traditions that men hold sacred, but is a lifestyle that comes out of knowing the living Jesus Christ and following after Him and His word. Scriptures bear out that it is all a way of life---knowing Jesus.
: Lively Stone Thu May 09, 2013 - 13:37:06
True Christianity is not a religion rife with regulations and man-made traditions that men hold sacred, but is a lifestyle that comes out of knowing the living Jesus Christ and following after Him and His word. Scriptures bear out that it is all a way of life---knowing Jesus.
So, you cannot back up your unfounded assertions. Might have known it would be a wasted question.
: Red Baker Wed May 08, 2013 - 13:29:18
Thaddaues You said: #1~"Do you not know that the scriptures were written by those Apostles. And you asking them to support what they say with scripture?"
When I said these words: "I do not think, or believe that the disciples of Jesus Christ, have any right whatsoever to say even one word in a way of proclaiming truth, if they cannot support their word (s) with holy scriptures from heaven"~I was not referring to the apostles, but to born again children of God, then too are the disciples of the Lord Jesus. Not sure how you could not follow something as simple as that.
I am not going to go back and play games with someone who uses almost no scriptures, but a bunch words to no profit. Some men argue to prove doctrines, which is a good thing; others argue to be just arguing, to try to hinder those who have truth and speak it. It is clear, that you are such a person. Acts 13:45! and there are others.
Since you will not give certain specific that you feel strongly in defending, then I will take some of your twisted views and expose them. Maybe in the morning.
RB
I'll have to testify to that, not worth debating with him.
I think this is true (I know, I know, I can't believe it either. Just move along....):
: Lively Stone Thu May 09, 2013 - 13:37:06
True Christianity is....a lifestyle that comes out of knowing the living Jesus Christ and following after Him and His word. Scriptures bear out that it is all a way of life---knowing Jesus.
But, that doesn't mean that religion or structured practice, or structured communities are de facto, not appropriate or somehow obviates one's Christianity.
: Lively Stone Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50
: HRoberson Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity. They do not hold to the authority of God's word, but rather to man's traditions....something that Jesus Himself spoke rather harshly about---as did Paul under God's inspiration. So, they fall outside of Christianity.
Mark 7:8
For you ignore God's law and substitute your own tradition.
Colossians 2:8
Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.
Any doctrine or thinking that doesn't coincide with Jesus---throw it out, turn away.
Define "coincide." I suspect a better word would be "compatible," so that we would have "any doctrine or thinking that isn't compatible with Jesus--throw it out, turn away." Jesus did not define everything about how Christians should live or structure their communities with each other in finite detail. It is not necessary that Jesus must have voiced something for that something to be valid.
: Lively Stone Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50
: HRoberson Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity.
They ARE mainstream Christianity. They represent the majority of Christendom, they actually can trace their roots back to the first century, and it was they who defined your scriptures. I'm not sure you can get more mainstream than these two groups.
: HRoberson Fri May 10, 2013 - 01:14:32
: Lively Stone Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50
: HRoberson Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity.
They ARE mainstream Christianity. They represent the majority of Christendom, they actually can trace their roots back to the first century, and it was they who defined your scriptures. I'm not sure you can get more mainstream than these two groups.
No, they are not mainstream, nor do they model what the Body of Christ looks like in the world.
Posted by: Thaddaeus
« on: Yesterday at 08:54:18 AM » Insert Quote
You asked LS: "So what is your definition of "Christianity", Lutheranism? Calvinism? Zwinglism? John Knox(Presbyterianism),Jacob Arminius( Arminianism), Michael Servetus (Unitarianism), Russellism(Jehovah Witnesses)? Eddyism(Christian Science)? Whiteism(Seventh Day Adventist)? Thomasism (Christadelphians)? Parhamism(Pentecostals)? Murrayism (Universalist)?
And we should not forget (Stoneism).
I can go on. Everyone of these claims to be based on the Word of God (scriptures), so by your definition, these are NOT man made traditions but Christianity"
So, you believe that your faith/religion is the only sound, biblical religion left on the face of the earth? Can I ask one question? Your "twin sister" that separated from you, or you from her, whatever??? Is she a man made religion as well? Roman Catholic Church, and how do you two different? As I have already said:
"I do have a religion and it is the one that Paul defended in Galatians 2-5. It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed. We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc. We believe that some of us are in many faiths, just not fully converted fully, and may never be. We make a clear distinction between regeneration, and conversion. One happens immediately, the other a life long process, that is never fully competed in any man. We all will die with some errors. But one main truth we all believe in~that is: Free justification is through the obedience of ONE, not two! Not me and Jesus, but Jesus alone. Romans 5:19"
We as children of God understand regeneration "and conversion"~that they are NOT ONE AND THE SAME, and, one can truly be a regenerated child of God, yet might not be in full agreement with each other, nevertheless, we do have one common link that links us together as God's children, that this: we trust solely in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, believing that it is a free gift by the grace of God, and that works has nothing to do with it.
That being said, they will be differences of beliefs, but eternal life is is not base upon our ability to understand truths, but eternal life is base upon HIM WHO HAD PERFECT TRUTH AND PERFECT RIGHTEOUNESS. even Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.
All works are removed from the promises of God to the seed of Jesus Christ, because he alone, IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS!
That being said, it does not mean that we believe that all religions are going to receive the reward of the world to come, because many have another gospel base upon pure works, while at the same time, deny many of the truths of the scriptures, such as the deity of Jesus Christ, etc.
We know that many of the people of these groups that you mentioned: "Lutheranism? Calvinism? Zwinglism? John Knox(Presbyterianism),Jacob Arminius( Arminianism),"~have many children of God within them, only they are not converted on some truths. These groups overall, trusted in Jesus Christ, but with a certain amount of truth and error mixed. I believe that God has "some" of his children in the Catholic churches.
We prove our faith by our works of righteousness. No man can have assurance that he is of God, unless , he is in the truth. We can only give assurance to ourselves and to others base upon our godliness, and doctrine. But, we are humans and cannot see into the hearts of any man. Unless we had Peter's confession concerning Lot being a righteous man, we would be fighting among ourselves on this forum trying to decide if he was or not, if we only had the OT scriptures! And there are others, like Samson, how about Saul, the first king of Israel?
Are all outside of your faith/religion, under the "eternal" judgment of God? I would say this: all within your group are not given evidence that they are of God, but some very well could be! I use the scriptures to determined if one is of God or not, you use your religion to make that determination.
RB
Red Baker,
So, you believe that your faith/religion is the only sound, biblical religion left on the face of the earth? Can I ask one question? Your "twin sister" that separated from you, or you from her, whatever??? Is she a man made religion as well? Roman Catholic Church, and how do you two different? As I have already said:
The RCC has become a man made religion. When Pope Leo the IX finally and permanently to this point separated from the Body of Christ to establish the RCC, it became a organizational, man led, man created religion. They separated on only two disputes, however, since have created many more man made theories and interpretations of scripture.
"I do have a religion and it is the one that Paul defended in Galatians 2-5. It is the religion of Free Justification through the faith and obedience on Jesus Christ FREELY GIVEN by the Grace of God to his seed. We have no name, other than Believer's, followers of Jesus Christ, Christians, etc. We believe that some of us are in many faiths, just not fully converted fully, and may never be. We make a clear distinction between regeneration, and conversion. One happens immediately, the other a life long process, that is never fully competed in any man. We all will die with some errors. But one main truth we all believe in~that is: Free justification is through the obedience of ONE, not two! Not me and Jesus, but Jesus alone. Romans 5:19"
You have clearly and unequivically stated that it is a man made religion. You picked a single verse and established a whole new faith based upon it.
YOu show a huge difference in your understanding of the text as well. I don't know of any Christian who actually believes justification that Christ gives to us by faith is something done by man. That justification is based on what Christ did, and no man can contribute to what Christ did. Which is why we are justifed by faith and not works of the law. Rom 5:19 is referencing Christ's work which is for all men. He made all men righteous vs18, II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25 for just a couple of aligning texts.
We as children of God understand regeneration "and conversion"~that they are NOT ONE AND THE SAME, and, one can truly be a regenerated child of God, yet might not be in full agreement with each other, nevertheless, we do have one common link that links us together as God's children, that this: we trust solely in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, believing that it is a free gift by the grace of God, and that works has nothing to do with it.
which is a peculiarity of your religion. It is one of those things that will make it different than the Gospel of Christ as it was always understood and did not need to be relativized for the purpose of man.
Again, I think you are misunderstanding the atonement as well. Atonement does not mean forgiveness. The Atonement was for the sin of the world. It provides for Christ to be the High Priest and to forgive sins. Works is how we sin. YOu cannot sin without doing something, in this case, against God's will. Sin will separate one from God. It is why forgiveness is necessary in order to remain IN Christ.
That being said, they will be differences of beliefs, but eternal life is is not base upon our ability to understand truths, but eternal life is base upon HIM WHO HAD PERFECT TRUTH AND PERFECT RIGHTEOUNESS. even Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.
which is true as far as it goes. Christ's perfect righteouness was given to all men. Every single human being has been given eternal life. It is why and how all men will be raised in the last day.
But where you spend eternity is your choice. Whether you spend it in heaven or hell is solely your choice and based on your faithfulness to His will. This is those texts you are misunderstanding because they are Incarnational. Rom 11:32, Rom 5:18, Rom 3:23-25, II Cor 5:18-19, Col 1:20, John 6:39, Heb 2:14-17, John 4:42, Rev 20:11-13, I Cor 15:12-22 and others.
All works are removed from the promises of God to the seed of Jesus Christ, because he alone, IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS
as He is for every human being.
However, your personal righteousness in Christ is granted ONLY by faith. Even at that, justification by faith does not save a person. I allows or grants entrance into Christ. ONce IN Christ it is all about living according to His Will. That is the meaning of being saved "through faith". It is all about works which James writes about. Here we are also justified by works and not faith only- James 2:24.
That being said, it does not mean that we believe that all religions are going to receive the reward of the world to come, because many have another gospel base upon pure works, while at the same time, deny many of the truths of the scriptures, such as the deity of Jesus Christ, etc.
which is based on your misunderstanding of scripture to begin with.
These groups overall, trusted in Jesus Christ, but with a certain amount of truth and error mixed. I believe that God has "some" of his children in the Catholic churches.
there may be some who might be saved. But by any meaning of scripture they are outside of the Body of Christ as described in scripture. But we also know many are saved outside of the NT. That is confirmed by the OT as well as Paul's statement of Rom 1:18-24. Every single human being will give an account of what he personally did with the knowledge and grace of God given to Him. This also goes right back to the parable of the talents.
We prove our faith by our works of righteousness. No man can have assurance that he is of God, unless , he is in the truth.
Now you seem to be switching. Now we are being saved by our works. You applied the other statement to believers as well, now you have works of righteouness, which is correct, but what about your statement we are not saved by works.
Are all outside of your faith/religion, under the "eternal" judgment of God? I would say this: all within your group are not given evidence that they are of God, but some very well could be! I use the scriptures to determined if one is of God or not, you use your religion to make that determination.
You are quite incorrect as to my judgement. I don't judge at all and neither does the Church. That is reserved to God alone. However, there will be more Orthodox and RCC in hell than any other church only because we outnumber by a wide margin the number who have been either Orthodox, or RCC. Being in the Body of Christ does not guarantee anything. It is the living in faith, according to His will that will matter.
But it is important to actually understand who the Christ is as He has revealed Himself, and not by some man who developed his own ideas of who he is including the definition of the Body of Christ.
Just for the record, You still have not listed ONE, false teaching of the Orthodox Church.
: Lively Stone Fri May 10, 2013 - 03:12:12
: HRoberson Fri May 10, 2013 - 01:14:32
: Lively Stone Wed May 08, 2013 - 21:19:50
: HRoberson Wed May 08, 2013 - 14:57:44
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 20:37:20
: Thaddaeus Tue May 07, 2013 - 19:01:38
: Lively Stone Tue May 07, 2013 - 11:02:33
: OldDad Tue May 07, 2013 - 09:21:32
I think the Eastern Orthodox is about as good as any other denomination.
Like the RCC, I do not consider EO as a denomination. It is a religion all to itself.
that is the truest thing you have stated.
As a religion all to itself, it bears little resemblance to true Christianity as revealed in the scriptures, as it leans heavily toward tradition, the actual church building as the place where truth is disseminated, and rejects the personal relationship we have with Jesus.
These beliefs are barriers to personal faith. How?
EO's are led to assume the Church's responsibility (not theirs) to seek the truth.
These beliefs pose a barrier to personal faith in Christ, in that they so elevate the Church's Tradition and its interpretation of scripture, that many Orthodox people assume it is only the Church's responsibility (through its representative, the local priest or bishop) to interpret and disseminate spiritual truth. Orthodox lay people usually do not feel a responsibility or right to seek the truth on their own or do personal Bible study, since it is already contained in the Tradition of the Church.
The Bible is not viewed as the primary source for dogma—Tradition is. Yet if Orthodox people were to study the Bible for themselves, many would discover personal faith in Christ as God speaks to them through His word.
I don't follow the logic that these things (assuming for the moment that they are true), make either the EO or the RCC a separate religion. That seems a rather huge jump in logic.
Actually it is quite logical to see that these two almost identical theological groups are religions that separate from mainstream Christianity.
They ARE mainstream Christianity. They represent the majority of Christendom, they actually can trace their roots back to the first century, and it was they who defined your scriptures. I'm not sure you can get more mainstream than these two groups.
No, they are not mainstream, nor do they model what the Body of Christ looks like in the world.
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?
Unless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.
Congratulations.
: HRoberson Fri May 10, 2013 - 13:22:04
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?
They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know? As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.
Longevity has no bearing on truth. I do not believe it has existed for 2000 years. They like to say that because that is where their pride comes from, but their doctrine is faulty, so no matter how long it has existed, it doesn't have the truth. So, in effect, it holds to lies the longest. What a distinction!
As for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also? No, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on. It's all about God and what He has done!
Unless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.
I suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived. There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.
I am sorry that you support the deception.
Lively,
A lot of assertions, Lively. And not a shred of evidence again to support any of them. What I see are pure rationalizations to minimalize everthing, and at best put everything on the same level as your personal interpretation.
Now, lets look at the facts.
They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know? As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.
ON what do you base the fact that the Church Christ founded at Pentacost is not mainstream Christianity? Can you show any evidence, either theologically, scripturally, historically that the Church currently located in Jeruselem is not the continued existance of the Church the Apostles first established with James as the first Bishop? There is plenty of evidence available for you to check on the web show you are absolutely false in your statement.
Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know?
by the definition of scripture I know that every single member of the EO is a "born again believer". They have all been baptised into the Body of Christ as the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to initiate with Pentacost and has done so every since.
As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion,
This religion is based on Christ. He is the Head of His Body, His Church, He founded with the Apostles at Pentacost.
However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.
I would hope and pray that all were bound up within the confines of Christ's Body, but low, contrary to your false doctrine of OSAS, many have left, many have taken their salvation for granted. I would hope they do not leave Christ, freedom comes in knowing Christ as He revealed Himself to us.
Longevity has no bearing on truth.
It does when it matters. It because that Gospel of Christ once given Jude 3, has never changed, is the authentic witness of the Holy Spirit in time. It is why any Christian should be able to disern false teaching within a few sentences because he will recognize it as never having been from the beginning. The Holy spirit has made sure, with Christ as Head of His Church, that man has not ever imposed His own will or interpretation upon the ONCE give Gospel of Christ.
I do not believe it has existed for 2000 years
all you need to do is go to the website of the Patriarch of Jeruselem and you will have a list of every bishop from James to the current one. Or you can go to the Patriarch of Antioch and see another list from the first to the present. Some of the Church buildings, namely the Church of the Holy Sephlechur in Jeruselem is in only its fourth ediface since 33AD.
It might help, Lively, that you actually check Church history and learn something.
They like to say that because that is where their pride comes from,
facts of history have nothing to do with pride.
but their doctrine is faulty,
And just how would you even know what their theology might be, since you have never checked it. You are under the false impression Christianity never existed. Probably not until you were born and then handed a Bible.
So at this point your statement is a categorical lie unless you can show which doctrine is false, and why it might be false.
As for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also? No, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on. It's all about God and what He has done!
rationalizing away history does not change history. It makes you look very uninformed and misguided on a lot of facts. Yet, you make these unfounded assertions.
By the way Christ chose His Body, starting with the Apostles to whom He gave His revelation. It was those same Apostles who later wrote some of that revelation down. That Bible you hold was given to you, by God, but through His Body. God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written. It was given orally as was the OT. It was written down much later. And only part of it was written. The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY, where Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit. He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations. That can easily be handled by the Body.
I suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived.
You have been deceived by someone, something, if you think Christianity never existed outside of your personal interpretation.
There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.
Well Lively, how about putting some facts behind your so far unfounded assertion. I'll even make it easy for you. List only one and give evidence that it is actually a false (doctrine) teaching of scripture.
: Lively Stone Fri May 10, 2013 - 16:28:29
: HRoberson Fri May 10, 2013 - 13:22:04
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?
They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know?
How do you know they aren't?
As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.
I suspect you are confusing freedom with your preferences.
Longevity has no bearing on truth.
It doesn't disqualify it either.
I do not believe it has existed for 2000 years.
You don't believe the EO have existed for 2000 years? Where do you suppose they came from? Do you have a history book that says they showed up in 1500?
They like to say that because that is where their pride comes from,
They say that because it's true.
but their doctrine is faulty, so no matter how long it has existed, it doesn't have the truth. So, in effect, it holds to lies the longest. What a distinction!
And your lie has only existed since the 1500s. Your lie is just newer.
As for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also?
This is a red herring
No, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on.
To be used by God to perpetuate His word in the world, is quite an honor. You do yourself nor your God any honor by dissing the servants he has selected.
It's all about God and what He has done!
which makes me wonder why you denigrate what he has done just because you can't understand it.
Unless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.
I suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived. There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.
I am sorry that you support the deception.
You've drunk too much of your own Koolaid.
: HRoberson Fri May 10, 2013 - 22:52:47
: Lively Stone Fri May 10, 2013 - 16:28:29
: HRoberson Fri May 10, 2013 - 13:22:04
They are the largest block of Christians, have existed as distinct groups for 2000 years, you can find them around the world, and they made your Bible. On what basis do you conclude they are not mainstream?
They may be a large group, but they are not mainstream Christians. Are you saying every member of the EO is a born again believer? How do you know?
How do you know they aren't?
They aren't mainstream because they oppose the truth about salvation, and from what Thaddaeus says, the EO is the one true church, and that argument doesn't hold water. To him and others like him the EO speaks and what the EO says is the truth. The word of God is our authority, and not the Church. The Church of Jesus Christ, of which all believers are a part, has been given that authority---the word of God.
What he says is the mere prideful opinion of his religion and doesn't square with God's word---anywhere.
Mainstream Christianity holds to the true gospel of Jesus Christ, unadulterated by the Universalist-tinged gospel of the EO.
As in any religion, some find Christ. However, seeing as it is a religion, people become bound up within its confines and really rarely break out into the real freedom they can find in Jesus Christ.
I suspect you are confusing freedom with your preferences.
Actually, no. There is a freedom we can have in Jesus Christ that religion denies people. Once people have a true encounter with they living Jesus, they usually break out of the pious hold of religion, which includes their membership in the EO, RCC, LDS, JW, Islam, Baha'i, and any other false religion.
Longevity has no bearing on truth.
It doesn't disqualify it either.
That's for sure, but it is rather pathetic to claim to be part of a religion that claims to be from the time of Jesus. It isn't.
I do not believe it has existed for 2000 years.
You don't believe the EO have existed for 2000 years? Where do you suppose they came from? Do you have a history book that says they showed up in 1500?
It came from the minds of men who desire religion rather than the freedom they could have had in Christ, just like the very first churches that are described in all of scripture. You'd think that if this religion had been used of God to produce the scriptures we have today, they would have read and learned from them.
They like to say that because that is where their pride comes from,
They say that because it's true.
So, you are EO, too?
No, they have a pride that is invested in something meaningless.
but their doctrine is faulty, so no matter how long it has existed, it doesn't have the truth. So, in effect, it holds to lies the longest. What a distinction!
And your lie has only existed since the 1500s. Your lie is just newer.
I believe what the word of God says about anything. There are no lies in God. You cannot accuse me of believing anything that is a lie.
As for having "made your Bible"---is the Bible not yours, also?
This is a red herring
I made a good point. ::tippinghat::
No, only God has authored my Bible, and He can use anyone He so chooses to ensure it is produced. That is nothing to hang one's hat on.
To be used by God to perpetuate His word in the world, is quite an honor. You do yourself nor your God any honor by dissing the servants he has selected.
Sure it is an honour, but it is God's to bestow and only on individuals, and not a group, lest it become a point of pride---which I see it has. I don;t diss particular people he has used, but I do diss a religion for grabbing what isn't theirs.
It's all about God and what He has done!
which makes me wonder why you denigrate what he has done just because you can't understand it.
It's all about what God does, and not anything that man has done. He is the one who has done what is impossible for men! He gets all the praise! Do you understand that? When men or their religion receives praise for something god has done, I know there is something rotten in Denmark.
: HR: Lively Stone: HRUnless you suffer from the name delusion you accuse Thad of -- you believe your teaching is the only acceptable teaching. Which leaves you painted into the same corner as Thad.
I suffer from no delusion, as I make sure that I obey God when He warns me to not be deceived. There are many false beliefs that Thaddaeus has fallen for, and in his search for truth, he has allowed himself to be deceived.
I am sorry that you support the deception.
You've drunk too much of your own Koolaid.
That kind of remark comes from a spirit other than a godly one. No love, only venom---right from the pit. You have nothing to say but sniveling nonsense. The only thing I drink in is the truth of God's word, and have large helpings of His Living Water! Praise God.
John 4:14But whoever takes a drink of the water that I will give him shall never, no never, be thirsty any more. But the water that I will give him shall become a spring of water welling up (flowing, bubbling) [continually] within him unto (into, for) eternal life.
John 6:35Jesus replied, I am the Bread of Life. He who comes to Me will never be hungry, and he who believes in and cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me will never thirst any more (at any time).
Posted by: Thaddaeus
« on: Yesterday at 05:57:30 PM » Insert Quote
Thaddaeus said to LS:
"By the way Christ chose His Body, starting with the Apostles to whom He gave His revelation. It was those same Apostles who later wrote some of that revelation down. That Bible you hold was given to you, by God, but through His Body. God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written. It was given orally as was the OT. It was written down much later. And only part of it was written. The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY, where Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit. He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations. That can easily be handled by the Body."
LS~Thank you for standing in the gap and making up the hedge against two modern day Pharisees. I say that base upon the words of Jesus Christ~who warned us in Matthew 15 and Mark 7, how the Pharisees lay aside the commandments of God, for their own man made doctrines; which our blessed Lord Jesus called the tradition of men, which we are commanded to reject.
Listen to the words of "Dr. Caiaphas"~"God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written."
Any person on this forum that reads these words and would give this man any credibility of being of God, has no fear whatsoever of being deceived by words of a false prophets. There are so many scriptures in the word of God, that would expose these words as words from a lip of one who knows not the Lord Jesus Christ. Beware and take heed!
I will give some scriptures, but, first lets read more of what he said: A. "And only part of it was written." By these words, he is saying that we do not have the complete words of God that he spoke and intended for us to have. How can any man say that we have only part of the words spoken by God? What part was left off Dr. Caiaphas?
B. "The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY"~ Now Dr. Caiaphas wants bible believers to believe that the written word of God, contains ONLY SOME OF GOD REVALATION~and the rest comes from mouths of the Eastern Orthodox's ministers! And, actually their words are above the written words of God Almighty! Any person who believes such a lie, are under a strong delusion of the devil.
C. "He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations." Where does one start when refuting such bold words against the word of God? There is so much, that could be said against these words of Dr. Caiaphas. We will be adding more later as we ponder these corrupt words.
Peter said these words: 2 Peter 1:19~"We have a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that sinneth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"
Peter said that the godly have a more sure word of prophecy, and he was not speaking about some words of vain men who may be speaking a vision from their own deceitful hearts! He is speaking of the written word of God! Lets read more of Peter's words:
2 Peter1:20
"Knowing this first, that no SCRIPTURE is of any private interpretation."
What was Peter exalting, man's private words, or the holy scriptures? Let every godly person judge for themselves. Again, Peter said:
2 Peter 1:21
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." And the only way that they spake was through writing scriptures in a letter to the people. God in his infinite wisdom decided which ones were to be part of the Holy scriptures sent down from heaven for us.
Jesus said to the Jews of his day: search the scriptures~John 5:39 the words of God to us were giving in written words, which every child of God has exalted to be God's revelation from heaven, and only revelation that saints put their faith in.
It is by the holy scriptures that we test every man's words to see if God is speaking through him or not. The holy scriptures alone are able to make us wise unto salvation~and this salvation is a practical salvation, one of which, is a salvation from false prophets, who are always speaking a vision of their own corrupt spirit, that the scriptures will not support.
2 Timothy 3:16
"All SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God amy be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."
This is a powerful verse. The scriptures ARE profitable for everything that will ever come up in our walk with God. The man of God is a collective noun, meaning all of God's people! Just like when we say: the "man of war"~it means all men who go to war; the "man of sin", are all men who live under the power of sin, etc.
The written words of God, called the scriptures, where given by God, that every saint would be thoughly furnished unto all good works. We reject any other voice, if that voice does not speak according to the written words of God.
Isaiah 8:20
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. " Beware of adding to what is written!
Revelation 21:18,19
"For I testify unto every man that hearth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things written in this book."
The word of God is one co-hesive whole, and what is written in Revelation 21:18,19 is referring to complete word of God, from Genesis to Revelation. No child of God should ever allow any man, who through he pride of his heart, speak outside of what is written, and what is written is all that God intends for us to have and know. I can say more, but must stop for now.
RB
Re: Eastern Orthodox and some of their beliefs.
« Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 09:28:03 AM
I will answer this post later, because I want to take my time and answer it with the word of truth. I will not do you a service by quickly answering it with a one liner or two. RB
Red Baker,
"By the way Christ chose His Body, starting with the Apostles to whom He gave His revelation. It was those same Apostles who later wrote some of that revelation down. That Bible you hold was given to you, by God, but through His Body. God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written. It was given orally as was the OT. It was written down much later. And only part of it was written. The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY, where Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit. He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations. That can easily be handled by the Body."
My statement.....
LS~Thank you for standing in the gap and making up the hedge against two modern day Pharisees. I say that base upon the words of Jesus Christ~who warned us in Matthew 15 and Mark 7, how the Pharisees lay aside the commandments of God, for their own man made doctrines; which our blessed Lord Jesus called the tradition of men, which we are commanded to reject.
What man made doctrines are you accusing the Apostles of creating? I can see how confused you have become regarding the historical record borne out by scripture.
Listen to the words of "Dr. Caiaphas"~"God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written."
Any person on this forum that reads these words and would give this man any credibility of being of God, has no fear whatsoever of being deceived by words of a false prophets. There are so many scriptures in the word of God, that would expose these words as words from a lip of one who knows not the Lord Jesus Christ. Beware and take heed!
I guess if we believe most confused people like yourself, who assumes that the Bible was created by God and dropped into Luther's lap in 1500 could be excused for such an uniformed statement.
Listen to the words of "Dr. Caiaphas"~"God's revelation has absolutely nothing to do with being produced. It was not even meant to be written."
Any person on this forum that reads these words and would give this man any credibility of being of God, has no fear whatsoever of being deceived by words of a false prophets. There are so many scriptures in the word of God, that would expose these words as words from a lip of one who knows not the Lord Jesus Christ. Beware and take heed!
You are seemingly the one here with no credibility and making unfounded statements.
When Paul visited Corinth, for example, he did not twittle his thumbs for three years, then leave, and then wrote down a text to send to them. You need to get your head out the sand and study a little history of where the Bible you use actually comes from. It did not arrive in 1500.
By the way, you are actually ascribing the work of the Holy Spirit as that of Satan which is blasphemy. In ignorance of how we got the Bible you are castigating the very Body (and the Holy Spirit) that made it possible for you to have a Bible.
B. "The Holy Spirit is preserving HIs WHOLE REVELATION WITHIN THE BODY"~ Now Dr. Caiaphas wants bible believers to believe that the written word of God, contains ONLY SOME OF GOD REVALATION~and the rest comes from mouths of the Eastern Orthodox's ministers! And, actually their words are above the written words of God Almighty! Any person who believes such a lie, are under a strong delusion of the devil.
such misinformation. I would be embarassed to say some of this nonsense.
Apparently you think the Bible arrived in 1500 and the Apostles were actually a myth, even though scripture mentions them, the teaching is from the Apostles. They preached, taught, set up the Churches long before anything was ever written. Get you head out of your sandbox and make informed statements.
C. "He could not care about printing it, or even correct translations." Where does one start when refuting such bold words against the word of God? There is so much, that could be said against these words of Dr. Caiaphas. We will be adding more later as we ponder these corrupt words.
Like another dose of your ignorance as above?
2 Peter1:20
"Knowing this first, that no SCRIPTURE is of any private interpretation."
this is being directed squarely at you.
the rest of your post is just quoting scripture as if it is making your point. It is actually testifying against your ignorance with uninformed statements above.
God blessed my other child with pink eye so I don't have to lie about not going to EO church with my family again this weekend! God is AWESOME!
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!
: LightHammer Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!
No amount of 'holy water' can put it out...
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/Floatingaxe/Animated/2ntixs8.gif) (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/Floatingaxe/media/Animated/2ntixs8.gif.html)
: LightHammer Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!
This is what the (alleged) false protestant reformation brought to the table, the fire of God. These man made churches have more fire than the so called One true churches, lol. You'r educated theologians try their best to persuade the people with their long drawn out books, that their, is the one true church. Meanwhile God has left the building and left them arguing for centuries, while He the master builder is doing his work amongst the people, the poor and the uneducated fools, that the modern Pharisse leaders despise, but God took the foolish things of the world to confound the wisdom of the wise.
: Lively Stone Sat May 11, 2013 - 18:29:50
: LightHammer Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!
No amount of 'holy water' can put it out...
How about answering your unfounded statements in post" 46 and my response to them in post 47.
: FireSword Sat May 11, 2013 - 21:36:57
: LightHammer Sat May 11, 2013 - 14:51:36
Fire!! Fire in the Orthodox Forum!!!
This is what the (alleged) false protestant reformation brought to the table, the fire of God. These man made churches have more fire than the so called One true churches, lol. You'r educated theologians try their best to persuade the people with their long drawn out books, that their, is the one true church. Meanwhile God has left the building and left them arguing for centuries, while He the master builder is doing his work amongst the people, the poor and the uneducated fools, that the modern Pharisse leaders despise, but God took the foolish things of the world to confound the wisdom of the wise.
Well said FireSword! Great wisdom!
: Bitter Sweet Sat May 11, 2013 - 08:55:35
God blessed my other child with pink eye so I don't have to lie about not going to EO church with my family again this weekend! God is AWESOME!
He is indeed gracious ABOVE ALL!
Posted by: Thaddaeus
« on: Yesterday at 07:46:42 AM » Insert Quote
Thaddaeus asked: "What man made doctrines are you accusing the Apostles of creating?"
You would make a better politician, than a defender of truth. You are putting a spin on the subject itself, not just on certain words. It is men like you, who boldly proclaims that men like you can speak outside of what God has written, and those words are equal, or have even more authoritative power/right than the written word of God. This is what we are speaking against. Just because you are so blinded believing that your religion is the one that came from the apostles, and speaking against men like you, is considered by you, as though we are speaking against the apostles. Nice try, but you are showing just how deceived you are. We test every man, not by his affiliation with this sect, or that sect, this religion, with that religion, but we test/try every man, including our self with the written word of God. You are no where even close to what the apostles taught as the true gospel, not even close.
Thaddaeus said: "who assumes that the Bible was created by God and dropped into Luther's lap in 1500 could be excused for such an uniformed statement."
Well, we do believe that the scriptures were given by God, to his children through holy men of old. And we know just what they believe, by reading the scriptures, and by that, we judge this man, or that woman, worthy to be called a brother, or a sister. We do not trust in a religion, sect, name, but in word of God alone! Names mean nothing, if the doctrine does not line up with the written word of God. There are churches of God, there churches of Christ; there latter day church of Jesus Christ, and there are Christians churches, all have names close to the scriptures, but means nothing, if the true gospel of Jesus Christ is not taught. The bible did not fall into Luther's lap~the truth came into his heart with power of the Holy Ghost. Does this mean that I accept everything that he believed in? No, but overall, he believed and fear God, and left the whore behind. He did bring some of the dirty bed sheets out with him!
Thaddaeus said: " In ignorance of how we got the Bible you are castigating the very Body (and the Holy Spirit) that made it possible for you to have a Bible."
"In ignorance"~well, we all have a certain amount of it. I do know what the scriptures say in 2 Peter 1, on which I have already commented on. What no man knows is how God preserved his word from Moses to John; and how certain books where determined to be part of his written preserved word of God, and others were not. BY FAITH we trust in God that by his power alone he moved certain men to know what was the inspired word of God, and what was not inspired.
Ephesians 4:16
"And when this epistle is read among you, (which is inspired by the Holy Ghost) cause it to be read also in the church of the Ladodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from the Laodicea. Which was NOT inspired by the Holy Ghost! All saints by faith trust our God that what we have, we have all of the inspired Holy Ghost words from heaven and we reject any man who may tell us that this or that is from heaven, if we cannot find it in the holy scriptures.
Enough said. If you would use scriptures then I would debates your position base off of the scriptures that you use, but since you do not, then, what is it to debate with men like you? Not much.
RB
: Red Baker Sun May 12, 2013 - 05:07:28
: Bitter Sweet Sat May 11, 2013 - 08:55:35
God blessed my other child with pink eye so I don't have to lie about not going to EO church with my family again this weekend! God is AWESOME!
He is indeed gracious ABOVE ALL!
I checked his eye when I woke up this morning and it's not stuck together today. He only had it for 24 hours! It lasted for a few days with my other child. Even my husband told me not to lie to them about why I am not going but I didn't know how to say it without offending them. God answered them for me!
Red Baker,
You would make a better politician, than a defender of truth. You are putting a spin on the subject itself, not just on certain words. It is men like you, who boldly proclaims that men like you can speak outside of what God has written, and those words are equal, or have even more authoritative power/right than the written word of God. This is what we are speaking against. Just because you are so blinded believing that your religion is the one that came from the apostles, and speaking against men like you, is considered by you, as though we are speaking against the apostles. Nice try, but you are showing just how deceived you are. We test every man, not by his affiliation with this sect, or that sect, this religion, with that religion, but we test/try every man, including our self with the written word of God. You are no where even close to what the apostles taught as the true gospel, not even close.
The first thing a false teacher must proclaim is that there is no Truth. It becomes mandatory to minimalize, generalize the True gospel so that they can better elevate their own personal philosophy, even though it may use scripture to create their own faith.
The rest of what you state above is just elevating the importance of your view above every other man who desires to do the very same thing you are doing. This is why we can add Red Bakerism to that of Eddyism, or Russellism, or Calvinism or Lutheranism and many, many more. They all have one thing in common. They are all sola scripturists who have proclaimed their man made interpretation as infallible.
Well, we do believe that the scriptures were given by God, to his children through holy men of old. And we know just what they believe, by reading the scriptures, and by that, we judge this man, or that woman, worthy to be called a brother, or a sister.
It has been 500 years already and no man has yet come up with the exact same belief as the Apostles proclaimed in the beginning. They seem to go out of their way to avoid coming to the same faith as was delievered to the Saints, once, in the beginning.
We do not trust in a religion, sect, name, but in word of God alone!
the only thing all sola scripturists have in common is their abuse of scripture. Again, it is why they have generated thousands of denominations all based on the Word of God alone. the same as you are now proclaiming. We can add one more to the thousands. You will not be the last one unfortunately.
if the doctrine does not line up with the written word of God.
but the doctrine is always according to the person interpreting this Word of God. Again, thousands of gospels, thousands of Christs, thousands of ways to be saved, all according to some man, never according to how it was understood from the beginning.
All saints by faith trust our God that what we have, we have all of the inspired Holy Ghost words from heaven and we reject any man who may tell us that this or that is from heaven, if we cannot find it in the holy scriptures.
I guess several thousands have so felt but it seems that same Word has generated thousands of meanings. I can guarantee you that NONE of them were of the Holy Spirit, since He is not of confusion, chaos, and disunity. He promised that His Gospel would be united as He is with the Father.
Somehow you missed that unified Gospel, and feel the need to abuse the scriptures by developing your own version and adding to the choas. You are essentially making scripture null and void.
Enough said. If you would use scriptures then I would debates your position base off of the scriptures that you use, but since you do not, then, what is it to debate with men like you? Not much.
You have said nothing that pertains to scripture. All you have done is degnegrated the work of the Holy Spirit. You have declared Christ dead, and no longer the Head of any Church, or that the Holy Spirit no longer leads to His gospel.
YOu are the one who started the OP. You stated some of the Orthodox beliefs but never stated a single false teaching as yet and supported it with scripture or the history of the Church.
YOu have spent all of your words proclaiming what your interpretation of scripture might be which obviously is not Orthodoxy, or the Gospel of Christ as He gave it in the beginning.
Why not stick to your OP. You have gone down a rabbit hole.
Wow! We're not used to such fire in the EO forum but it is welcome (well, most of it anyway). Thanks to Thaddeus and especially HRobertson who is not Orthodox.
Little to add but can't resist posting something . . .
Some of us have converted to Orthodoxy. In my church, at least 30 percent are converts and our clergy in the entire Orthodox church is probably majority convert. The strange thing is that
many of us have come after a long search.
Are there jerks in our church? yes. Guess what, there are some in your church too. The parable of the wheat and the tares shows jerks will infiltrate even the church.
One of my big pet peeves is when people reject us solely because we believe that our church is the one true church. I get the initial first reaction, but, really, most of Christian history is a struggle about which church is the true one. As for me, I am much happier to be guided by the church that has hundreds of saints who make our struggles seem like small potatoes than to figure out which interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. The Bible itself says the truth is be found in the church (I Tim 3:15). Once we find that church, we no longer thirst.
: trifecta Sun May 12, 2013 - 15:54:17
One of my big pet peeves is when people reject us solely because we believe that our church is the one true church. I get the initial first reaction, but, really, most of Christian history is a struggle about which church is the true one. As for me, I am much happier to be guided by the church that has hundreds of saints who make our struggles seem like small potatoes than to figure out which interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. The Bible itself says the truth is be found in the church (I Tim 3:15). Once we find that church, we no longer thirst.
The true Church is the Body of Christ. As soon as a person meets and receives Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, he is a member. It is not an organization with a ruling authority governing it, but it is the family of all believers globally, who meet together in local families, with Jesus as our head, and includes all those who have gone before us, and are now with Jesus waiting for resurrection day.
Ephesians 1:23And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.
: Lively Stone Sun May 12, 2013 - 16:30:28
The true Church is the Body of Christ.
As soon as a person meets and receives Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, he is a member.
Where is this written? Church, at its basic definition, is a gathering. How is agreeing to a belief a gathering?
It is not an organization with a ruling authority governing it, but it is the family of all believers globally, who meet together in local families, with Jesus as our head, and includes all those who have gone before us, and are now with Jesus waiting for resurrection day.
Church is organization. It has people in roles (Eph 4:11), an authority structure (I Tim 3), and structure. That is organization. Admittedly, church is more than organization, but it is an aspect of it.
Your description of the church, which no one proposed for 1500 years, might more properly defined as those written in the Book of Life, but that is not the same thing. The church is the bride of Christ.
: trifecta Mon May 13, 2013 - 18:03:20
: Lively Stone Sun May 12, 2013 - 16:30:28
The true Church is the Body of Christ.
As soon as a person meets and receives Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, he is a member.
Where is this written? Church, at its basic definition, is a gathering. How is agreeing to a belief a gathering?
Where in God's word do you get that?
The Church is the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the CALLED OUT ONES (ekklesia).
1 Corinthians 12:27All of you together are Christ's body, and each of you is a part of it.
Ephesians 4:11-12Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
Ephesians 5:23For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church.
Colossians 1:18Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead. So he is first in everything.
2 Corinthians 11:2For I am jealous for you with the jealousy of God himself. I promised you as a pure bride to one husband—Christ.
Ephesians 5:25For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her
: Lively StoneIt is not an organization with a ruling authority governing it, but it is the family of all believers globally, who meet together in local families, with Jesus as our head, and includes all those who have gone before us, and are now with Jesus waiting for resurrection day.
Church is organization. It has people in roles (Eph 4:11), an authority structure (I Tim 3), and structure. That is organization. Admittedly, church is more than organization, but it is an aspect of it.
Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading.
Your description of the church, which no one proposed for 1500 years, might more properly defined as those written in the Book of Life, but that is not the same thing. The church is the bride of Christ.
What are you on about? My description of church comes directly from scripture---and it is 2000 years old. Those whose names are written in that Book of Life ARE part of the Church. My name is there and I am a member of the Body of Christ, the Bride.
This is incorrect:
"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."
and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.
: HRoberson Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:
"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."
and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.
I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 01:13:55
: HRoberson Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:
"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."
and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.
I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.
You said there was no earthly church authority. That is incorrect.
: HRoberson Tue May 14, 2013 - 07:17:24
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 01:13:55
: HRoberson Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:
"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."
and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.
I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.
You said there was no earthly church authority. That is incorrect.
LOL! So...adding that there is no
CENTRAL earthly authority clarifies it for you? Naivete, indeed! ::doh::
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 08:54:51
: HRoberson Tue May 14, 2013 - 07:17:24
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 01:13:55
: HRoberson Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:
"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."
and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.
I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.
You said there was no earthly church authority. That is incorrect.
LOL! So...adding that there is no CENTRAL earthly authority clarifies it for you? Naivete, indeed! ::doh::
The two mean completely different things. There is earthly authority for the church. Your poor interaction with Thad arises quite naturally from both your inability to understand what he is saying,.and your apparent penchant to type before thinking, resulting in imprecise and inaccurate statements. If you could muster the willingness and ability to actually engage your interlocutors rather than resorting to largely off the mark jousting with them, you might actually learn something about the incredibly rich spiritual history of the people of God through the centuries. It hasn't all been Western European Evangelicalism.
: HRoberson Tue May 14, 2013 - 10:12:58
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 08:54:51
: HRoberson Tue May 14, 2013 - 07:17:24
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 01:13:55
: HRoberson Mon May 13, 2013 - 23:17:21
This is incorrect:
"Yes, the local churches are organized assemblies of believers with structure as outlined in scripture. However, there is NO earthly church authority. We submit to Jesus Christ and His Spirit's leading."
and illustrates a considerable naivete, which is rather common.
I am correct. There is no central earthly Church authority apart from Jesus Christ our head. If you think there is, then I suggest you deliver the scripture that names it.
You said there was no earthly church authority. That is incorrect.
LOL! So...adding that there is no CENTRAL earthly authority clarifies it for you? Naivete, indeed! ::doh::
The two mean completely different things. There is earthly authority for the church. Your poor interaction with Thad arises quite naturally from both your inability to understand what he is saying,.and your apparent penchant to type before thinking, resulting in imprecise and inaccurate statements. If you could muster the willingness and ability to actually engage your interlocutors rather than resorting to largely off the mark jousting with them, you might actually learn something about the incredibly rich spiritual history of the people of God through the centuries. It hasn't all been Western European Evangelicalism.
Hahaha! I said what I mean---there is no Church organizational head office in the world! Thad thinks the EO is the Church authority in the world. RCC's think theirs is. Mormons and JW's think theirs is, also.
The only authority the Church of Jesus Christ in the world has is Jesus. He appoints local authorities for local assemblies. Do you get it, now?
Now you can learn that you need not type before thinking. As far as rich spiritual history---I have all the richness of spiritual history in the bible, thanks---plus I don't have to wade through error to get at the truth.
I thought it was probably a waste of time.
Good try HR!
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 10:28:02
Hahaha! I said what I mean---there is no Church organizational head office in the world! Thad thinks the EO is the Church authority in the world. RCC's think theirs is. Mormons and JW's think theirs is, also.
If God is not the author of confusion, why wouldn't there be a single church? Why did Jesus not say read the Bible and believe, instead of promising to build a church and have apostles to lead it?
As for multiple churches making the same claim, we can say the same about religion. There are thousands of faiths, what audacity to claim there is only one true religion!
The only authority the Church of Jesus Christ in the world has is Jesus.
So, why bother with a church or apostles to lead them? Why submit to any authority?
He appoints local authorities for local assemblies. Do you get it, now?
So, Jesus thought to lead local assemblies and his power stops there? A bishop is an overseer. Why would you assume he oversees a local congregation only?
Now you can learn that you need not type before thinking. As far as rich spiritual history---I have all the richness of spiritual history in the bible, thanks---pus I don't have to wade through error to get at the truth.
It is very helpful to study church history, just as we study our own history. Do we look toward others to understand the Bible. Of course, we do. So why not look at church history to gain a greater understanding of how the church (an instrument of God) works through history? It ultimately is very edifying.
I'm not Orthodox (big O), so I could be wrong, but the last I checked, the Orthodox don't have a single figurehead like the pope, or a designated capital like the Vatican, or anything analogous to the Magisterium.
They are just ruled by their bishops and archbishops, aren't they? trifecta?
Yes, Jarrod, we don't have a single leader like the Pope (Bishop of Rome).
While we treat our leaders with a fair amount of pomp, decisions in the O Church are
done conciliarly.
To use a modern term, we have checks and balances!
: trifecta Tue May 14, 2013 - 18:56:10
Good try HR!
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 10:28:02
Hahaha! I said what I mean---there is no Church organizational head office in the world! Thad thinks the EO is the Church authority in the world. RCC's think theirs is. Mormons and JW's think theirs is, also.
If God is not the author of confusion, why wouldn't there be a single church?
There is! All believers in Jesus Christ are the Church, His Body, the Bride.
Why did Jesus not say read the Bible and believe, instead of promising to build a church and have apostles to lead it?
Jesus established the Church through the apostles and it continues with Holy Spirit equipping everyone to serve each other in various capacities.
As for multiple churches making the same claim, we can say the same about religion. There are thousands of faiths, what audacity to claim there is only one true religion!
Yes there are lots of religions. Only Jesus is head of the one true faith---Christianity is not a religion. If you think there are religions that lead to God, then you are walking in delusion.
The only authority the Church of Jesus Christ in the world has is Jesus.
So, why bother with a church or apostles to lead them? Why submit to any authority?
Why wouldn't He? We submit to Christ, and to those He places in leadership over us, by virtue of the gifting of the Holy Spirit.
He appoints local authorities for local assemblies. Do you get it, now?
So, Jesus thought to lead local assemblies and his power stops there? A bishop is an overseer. Why would you assume he oversees a local congregation only?
Who says His power stops anywhere? God appoints apostles and overseers to establish new churches and to oversee congregations. The work of the Church goes on until Jesus comes gain.
Now you can learn that you need not type before thinking. As far as rich spiritual history---I have all the richness of spiritual history in the bible, thanks---plus I don't have to wade through error to get at the truth.
It is very helpful to study church history, just as we study our own history. Do we look toward others to understand the Bible. Of course, we do. So why not look at church history to gain a greater understanding of how the church (an instrument of God) works through history? It ultimately is very edifying.
Any history can be helpful, but it isn't necessary, as the bible contains all the history we will ever need. We look to each other to learn the scriptures, as the Lord gifts people with wisdom, and teaching abilities, as well as knowledge and understanding---some more than others. Holy Spirit is our ultimate teacher and He is the one who guides us into all truth.
We are the Church. We are His instruments who do His will in the world today.
Lively Stone,
I know this is really late response but here it goes.
You keep on saying the church is a body of people, which of course, it is. But it is more than that:
It is the depository of truth (1 Tim 3:15), has authority (in bishops and apostles), and makes judgment (Matt 18:17).
It even witnesses to the heavenly places (Eph 3:10). Finally, as I said before, it is a
gathering of people,
not a list of names.
: Lively Stone Tue May 14, 2013 - 19:21:25
Any history can be helpful, but it isn't necessary, as the bible contains all the history we will ever need.
History gives us context to understand. But it is more than that. It is how God works.
We look to each other to learn the scriptures, as the Lord gifts people with wisdom, and teaching abilities, as well as knowledge and understanding---some more than others. Holy Spirit is our ultimate teacher and He is the one who guides us into all truth.
Actually, you don't. You --like all of us-- depend on someone to give the scriptures some context. You have Luther, Calvin
etc. We have John Chrystostom, Basil the Great, Gregory of Naziansus, among many others. The church has figured this all out and passed the wisdom throughout the ages. You have Bill Bright, phrases like "born again" and "personal relationship." That may speak to today, but it is not they spoke historically. (Whether the
meaning of these phrases is historical is a debatable matter).
You say that we, regardless of our size and history, are not really Christians, based on some phrases which are not in the Bible.
Furthermore, while some might have saved by reading the Bible and depending on the Holy Spirit to interpret (as you say above), this is also how heresies (and denominations) develop. We have the history of the Church, which has figured all this
out so we don't repeat the same mistakes.
Finally, you say "the Bible is all you need," but it's not. It's just a cliche. You won't, for example, find the word Trinity or direct references to the Holy Spirit as God, yet you believe them. Beyond that, you have your Protestant fathers who give you
a context to read the Bible.
Dunno whether she will read it or not as she is no longer a participating member of this forum.
Wow! I've been gone awhile, but in a moment of idle curiosity checked back in. Boy, have the ways the different religious forums are being used a huge change from back when I stopped in here more often a couple of years ago. I had thought these forums were more for intra-Orthodox communications, and others could stop in and ask questions. It looks like non-Orthodox can jump in and offer up an inflammatory opening post.
Trifecta has offered a few clarifications, in his usual irenic spirit. (I might not have put up with a lot of the awful false nonsense being promulgated. But then last time I was a bit more combative like that, I knew I needed to stop visiting as often.)
For what it's worth, I'm Orthodox. I was once a member of the Christian churches/churches of Christ (what used to be called the Restoration Movement). I was born and raised among those churches, educated at one of their Bible colleges, and served as a youth minister, campus minister and local church minister. Later I began searching for the New Testament Church in earnest--which was fired by the Restoration Plea with which I'd grown up. Long story short: in May 2007, after five years of study and worship, I was received into the Orthodox Church and have been Orthodox since then. My first twelve years of becoming Orthodox (and once I was Orthodox) was among Churches whose history goes back to the Antioch of Acts 11. I am currently a member of an Orthodox parish with roots in Russia.
I am fairly well able to address the questions and inquiries someone might have about the Orthodox Church.
Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that Red Baker really had any desire to dialogue with Orthodox in their own forum, but had it in mind to attack a straw man of the Orthodox faith (many of the things he accuses Orthodox of believing are just flat false). Too bad.
: CDHealy Mon Dec 02, 2013 - 00:32:44
Wow! I've been gone awhile, but in a moment of idle curiosity checked back in. Boy, have the ways the different religious forums are being used a huge change from back when I stopped in here more often a couple of years ago. I had thought these forums were more for intra-Orthodox communications, and others could stop in and ask questions. It looks like non-Orthodox can jump in and offer up an inflammatory opening post.
Trifecta has offered a few clarifications, in his usual irenic spirit. (I might not have put up with a lot of the awful false nonsense being promulgated. But then last time I was a bit more combative like that, I knew I needed to stop visiting as often.)
For what it's worth, I'm Orthodox. I was once a member of the Christian churches/churches of Christ (what used to be called the Restoration Movement). I was born and raised among those churches, educated at one of their Bible colleges, and served as a youth minister, campus minister and local church minister. Later I began searching for the New Testament Church in earnest--which was fired by the Restoration Plea with which I'd grown up. Long story short: in May 2007, after five years of study and worship, I was received into the Orthodox Church and have been Orthodox since then. My first twelve years of becoming Orthodox (and once I was Orthodox) was among Churches whose history goes back to the Antioch of Acts 11. I am currently a member of an Orthodox parish with roots in Russia.
I am fairly well able to address the questions and inquiries someone might have about the Orthodox Church.
Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that Red Baker really had any desire to dialogue with Orthodox in their own forum, but had it in mind to attack a straw man of the Orthodox faith (many of the things he accuses Orthodox of believing are just flat false). Too bad.
CD, Good to see you.
I want you to know that our (distant) past discussions and interactions have been personally beneficial.
With the exception of a few individuals this forum has degenerated into an American Fundigelical Religionist free-for-all devoid of humility and lacking spiritual direction. Quite the waste of time.
Blessings to you and your family at the beginning of this Holy season.
V