I've been married 25 years, sexless for 15. My wife had to have a double mastectomy and hysterectomy and sex became painful and no longer pleasurable for her. I've been living in frustration ever since. We try our best to have a decent marriage, but there is a big, sad hole. If you are one of the lucky ones who gets to enjoy sex within your marriage, then you have been blessed. Unfortunately, in our case, God has cursed us in the area of sex. We've been devout in the church for years and she's tried everything medically but to no avail. Sex is a curse on humankind is so many ways (rape, incest, prostitution, pornography, human trafficing, STD's, child abuse, and the list goes on). But, in our case, even in the confines of what it was supposed to be, it's not a "gift from God". So, the next Christian marriage person that tells me sex is a gift from God may get a punch in the face.
Givenup, I hear the pain in your post, in your life. What a trial you have been put through. And this is real suffering. And no one can really understand unless they have been right where you are. And that real lack of physical intimacy is hard, because deep inside you know that you were meant for that union, and the very thing that is supposed to help you unite feels like it is driving you apart.
However God has not cursed you. Are you really ready to say that God is (basically) an evil God, that He would put you through this suffering without a purpose? Jesus himself has felt betrayed just as you have, he even felt the same abandonment by God that you might be feeling. Our suffering always has a purpose, just as Jesus' suffering had a purpose.
I disagree that sex is a "curse" on humankind. A similar argument could be that water is a "curse" on humankind. I mean, look at the drownings, the chinese water torture, the waterboarding, the tsunamis, the hurricanes, the floods. I hope you see the parallel here, that things created for good by God, ones that sustain life, such as water, and sex for that matter, can cause much suffering for some or be used for evil by evil persons.
In this time of suffering, which we all go through to one extent or another, just try to keep focused on the truth, that God is good, that suffering has a purpose that God will use for good, that Jesus is united to you in that suffering. Seek understanding in prayer and trust in God. Don't turn to blaming sexuality itself; sex itself was created by God. That people use sex for evil doesn't change this fact, nor should an idea that "sex is evil" become a scapegoat. You know there is a lack in your relationship, but a lack of something evil doesn't bring this much pain. It is only because you lack something good that you are suffering. We all have to trust in God's promises even through our suffering. Find other ways to be intimate with your wife, through spending time together, holding each other, loving each other, getting to know each other. I'm sure that she is suffering too.
We all have our crosses to bear, and you don't suffer alone. In our suffering let's pray for each other. I will keep you in mine.
I can understand your frustration.
Mostly our society has exchanged sex for love...as if it was the be all and end all of everything to do with relationships.
Granted there are more ways than just vaginal intercourse to have sex with a spouse...but since she doesn't seem interested in any of those methods either...well...you are just outta luck.
Trust me when I say that most Christian Married couples the men usually wants more physical intimacy than what the wives are willing to provide. I happen to be the exception to the rule as I get more than I can handle usually and sometimes whine about the frequency.
It shocks some of the wives when the men count the days between intimacy sessions...you would think that they would take a clue from this as this portion of marriage is usually very important to men. Physical intimacy is not just a physical drive in men...it is a psychological NEED. Regular physical intimacy has been scientifically proven to release oxycotin and endorphins which in turn reduce stress, induce relaxation, smoother heart rates to where the people actually having a lot of sex, inside of marriage, will live a lot longer. Not to mention the psychological effects of it which is stronger emotional bonds with your spouse.
Soooo...yes, you can tell your wife she is killing you with a slow tortuous death by not allowing you to have sex with her. (Of course her whining during sex is not going to help the situation at all...for me it would totally be a mood killer)
You can tell her that she has a responsibility as your spouse to fulfill certain roles inside of marriage and right now she is absolutely failing at doing so. She may have a physical disability but that does not excuse the situation at all at this point. Blind people can't see the plate of food in front of them but somehow they seem to be able to feed themselves on a regular basis. This situation is a direct parallel...so tell her she is out of excuses. She needs to cough up some kind of remedy to the situation, stop being an emotional sponge/vampire, and start being your spouse. You entered this relationship with her and commitment before God so that you could have a regular person to give some of your best stuff to...and expected that she had the same attitude. Currently she is doing a lot of taking and taking for granted and very little giving.
See where this takes you.
: Givenup Tue May 28, 2013 - 13:14:27
I've been married 25 years, sexless for 15. My wife had to have a double mastectomy and hysterectomy and sex became painful and no longer pleasurable for her. I've been living in frustration ever since. We try our best to have a decent marriage, but there is a big, sad hole. If you are one of the lucky ones who gets to enjoy sex within your marriage, then you have been blessed. Unfortunately, in our case, God has cursed us in the area of sex. We've been devout in the church for years and she's tried everything medically but to no avail. Sex is a curse on humankind is so many ways (rape, incest, prostitution, pornography, human trafficing, STD's, child abuse, and the list goes on). But, in our case, even in the confines of what it was supposed to be, it's not a "gift from God". So, the next Christian marriage person that tells me sex is a gift from God may get a punch in the face.
God hasn't cursed you, so please dont blame Him. This is between you and your wife. Having a hysterectomy does NOT cause pain in sex. I had one 11 years ago, and there is no physical reason why there should be pain afterwards. I suspect its emotional rather than physical. Maybe loosing her breasts(has she had reconstruction?) and womb made her feel unfeminine or something, and put her off sex.
I think she needs some good Christian ministry to get to the bottom of why she wont have sex with you. How does she even know if it is still painful if you haven't had sex for 15 years??? We are clearly told in the Bible not to withhold sex from each other, and in my opinion its very cruel to do so.
Even if it IS painful to have full sex, there are SO many other things that a couple can do sexually to make sure that they still have a sex life, and so that one or both don't have to endure that frustration that is not meant to be part of marriage. Does she make any effort to do this with you? Or is there absolutely no sexual contact at all? If pain is the reason, then that is no reason to stop sexual contact.
I think you both need to see a good marriage counsellor who can enable both of you to tackle this horrible situation that you have got in to. Its a shame that you have allowed it to go on for so long, but there is still lot of time to make things better. You will BOTH need to recognise that this is not right or normal, and that it is not what God wants for you, and she will need to realise that she has godly responsibilities towards you in this area that may involve work and effort on her part. Just because she doesn't want sex, is no reason to deprive you for 15 YEARS. ::eek:: She is opening to door to sexual temptation in your life.
John, interestingly enough, on the marriage forum that I go to, we get far more women coming on to complain about their husbands lack of interest in sex, than we do men complaining about women.
The OP said she's tried everything medically but to no avail. Doesn't sound like she is whining or unwilling. It is PAINFUL for her..that doesn't mean she is whining about it.
GivenUp, I am very sorry for the trial you and your wife face.
IS she willing to try other ways to be sexually intimate with you?
I appreciate the kind comments. Trust me, no amount of prayer or counseling can solve this one. It's pure physical limitations. And, yes, there are other forms of intimacy, but that quickly turns into a one-way street and doesn't work in the long run. I know I sound like a whiner and I also realize there are people out there with much worse problems. I don't mean to be a martyr either. Just saying that when people say it's "God's plan" for man and woman to be one flesh, etc....well, that's a whole lot of crap as far as I'm concerned. But, I will say that the Spirit is obviously communicating through a couple of you for sure.
: Givenup Tue May 28, 2013 - 17:01:31
I appreciate the kind comments. Trust me, no amount of prayer or counseling can solve this one. It's pure physical limitations. And, yes, there are other forms of intimacy, but that quickly turns into a one-way street and doesn't work in the long run. I know I sound like a whiner and I also realize there are people out there with much worse problems. I don't mean to be a martyr either. Just saying that when people say it's "God's plan" for man and woman to be one flesh, etc....well, that's a whole lot of crap as far as I'm concerned. But, I will say that the Spirit is obviously communicating through a couple of you for sure.
Well it is Gods plan, but when things go wrong, there are ways of getting round it. IF you haven't had full sex for 15 years there is no way of knowing if it will still be painful or not. Disabled people, for example, have to adapt, and have a different sort of sex life than others. If there really is physical pain (and there really is no physical reason why a hysterectomy would cause that)then there are so many other things you can do to be inventive. You say it is physical, but emotions are very powerful and can make us think there is pain when its all in the mind. If no one can find any reason for the pain, and she didn't have it earlier in the marriage, then it may well be emotional.
Do the doctors say what causes the pain? Is there any physical reason for it?
Do neither of you believe that God can heal and restore? If so why do you think that prayer and ministry wont help?
Sex, even without actual intercourse, can be good and fun. There are many things that you can both do to enjoy that time and closeness. Yes you have both left it a very long time so it will take more effort, but if you are both prepared to work at it and pray and get counselling, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot have a satisfying sex life again. However if neither of you are prepared to even try, then nothing will ever change. If you are OK with that then fine, but you don't seem to be. I think you need to tell her exactly how you feel, and that you don't want to carry on like this, and suggest some good marriage counselling together. What have you got to lose? You have so much to gain, IF you will both put that effort in.
Have you considered easing your urges by eating foods that will help produce more estrogen in your body? Like soy or flax seeds?
That's if you want to put it under control on your part. IDK, it seems like not having those urges may take away some of your suffering with less testosterone. That usually comes with age but lots of men are accidentally doing it with their diets too.
I was going to hold my peace and leave this one to those more level-headed than I am, like chosenone and John. But twice now you have essentially called God's Word "a bunch of crap", and have said no amount of prayer will fix your situation, and I cannot abide blasphemy from a man who clearly doesn't understand marriage as well as he thinks he does.
Yes, your situation is painful, and stressful, and it's not fair. But show me a place in Scripture that says your marriage, or your life for that matter, has to be fair.
Allow me to throw some of the "crap" you've mentioned at you. If you look through Scripture, your wife isn't the one given all the charges. You are. She only has one, to submit to you, as to Christ. That's it. Yes, she should be intimate with you, but it seems like in your situation she can't.
Deal with it.
As a man, you have systems in your body that prevent an overabundance of semen "build up". This happens through nocturnal emissions, and overflow into urine. Therefore, while I will not argue the healthy psychological effects of sex (I believe they're true), sex is not a physical need because your body will "dump the cargo" so to speak on its own.
Now back to the charges. When husbands and wives are mentioned in Scripture, we (men) are always the ones given the brunt of it.. In 1 Corinthians 7, Paul says it is good for a man not to touch a woman. Obviously that is also true for women not to touch men, but we are the ones called out.
Then in verse 3 he says, ""Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband." This is where your wife's aforementioned charge comes in, but notice that once again, you are the first one called out.
Ephesians 5:23 says, "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." True enough, the wife is the first one mentioned, but she is not the one given responsibility. She is told to submit to her husband because he is the head of her, in the manner of Christ being the head of the church. In His death on the cross, Jesus Christ took on the responsibility for our sins. Likewise, the husband is given responsibility of his wife – not to rule, but to provide, protect, and lead – as Christ did.
Now here's a big load of crap for you to consider. Look at 1 Peter 3:7. ""Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them (your wives) according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered" (emphasis added).
First of all, whining because your wife has a medical condition that prevents, or at least makes it difficult, her having sex with you is not dwelling according to knowledge. And it definitely is NOT giving honor to her.
Why should you care? Because of the last part of that verse – "that your prayers be not hindered."
Dictionary.com defines "hindered" this way – 1.) to cause delay, interruption, or difficulty in; hamper, impede: 2.) to prevent from doing, acting, or happening; stop: 3.) to be an obstacle or impediment.
Furthermore, the word "hindered" in Greek is "enkoptesthai" – which literally means "to knock in". Some manuscripts render the word as "ekkopto" – "to cut off or destroy".
So, what this passage basically tells us (husbands), is that if we don't treat our wives as we should, our prayers are destroyed. They won't be heard. We may or may not assume the same would be true for the wife. We are not told that for certain, so that part is left open to interpretation. However, what is not left open to interpretation is the fact that the husband is given a responsibility regarding the way he should treat his wife. In fact, we are told very plainly that this is a responsibility the Lord takes so seriously, that our prayers won't reach Him if we don't get that part right.
So in a way, you're right. No amount of prayer will fix this right now because you are not treating your wife as you should. So right now, your prayers aren't reaching God's ears.
Your wife is the most important thing in your entire universe. Second only to God. Period. You would do yourself well to Man Up, and start treating her that way.
I pray that you will actually consider my words, and not dismiss them out of anger because they're not what you wanted to hear. I am praying for your situation, brother, but as the head of your household you are responsible for everything that happens within it – good and bad. Seek the Lord, get your perspective straight, and then see what He will work in your marriage.
RoninJedi, you are obviously a sanctimonious nut job so I'm wasting my efforts here. I've been faithful for 25 years. I'm not blaming her either, you moron. Try walking in my shoes for a while. It's judgmental wing nuts like you that send people running from Christianity. Thank God for people like Catholica. I did take to heart his thoughtful and Christlike comments.
: Givenup Tue May 28, 2013 - 20:12:50
RoninJedi, you are obviously a sanctimonious nut job so I'm wasting my efforts here. I've been faithful for 25 years. I'm not blaming her either, you moron. Try walking in my shoes for a while. It's judgmental wing nuts like you that send people running from Christianity. Thank God for people like Catholica. I did take to heart his thoughtful and Christlike comments.
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
If I'm such a nut job, then why don't you show me where I was wrong in my use of Scripture?
I dare you.
: Givenup Tue May 28, 2013 - 20:12:50
RoninJedi, you are obviously a sanctimonious nut job so I'm wasting my efforts here. I've been faithful for 25 years. I'm not blaming her either, you moron. Try walking in my shoes for a while. It's judgmental wing nuts like you that send people running from Christianity. Thank God for people like Catholica. I did take to heart his thoughtful and Christlike comments.
And just real quick before you fly off the handle, perhaps you should slow down and actually read what I wrote.
I never said you were unfaithful. I said you weren't treating her right.
I never said you were blaming her. I said you were whining about it.
And trust me, you should not presume to talk to me about who should walk in who's shoes. A couple people around here know what I mean. I've walked much farther than you think I have, good sir.
First of all, the proper response from a compassionate Christian would not be "find where I'm wrong in scripture...I dare you." I think your entire approach is without compassion and holier than thou. You have no clue how I've treated my wife all these years. You have no right to say my prayers are being ignored by God because I'm not treating her right. No need to argue further. You are correct. This is the first time I've reached out in pain on a Christian blog and admittedly with a great amount of frustration that led to blasphemous comments. I don't blame God in my heart. Just hurting. Go ahead and quote some more verses to me and tell me God isn't listening because I'm not acting right. Throw in some biology lessons in there too about semen build up. That seems to help me too. I apologize to all. I'm outta here.
So I suppose you disapprove of all the times Jesus harshly told people how it was?
I'm not here to sugar-coat and tell you everything is going to be okay. I'm here to tell you how it is, and I did. And I never said anything about how you've treated her through your marriage. I said you're not treating her right in this situation by complaining.
Running away isn't going to solve anything.
Oh he has a valid complaint.
And some bitterness over the issue. (Kinda normal considering the situation)
Forgiveness is the best herbicide for bitter roots. Accepting & being thankful for what u have is key
So, are you comparing yourself to Jesus now? You know, you may be completely right...I don't know, some day it will be revealed to all us the proper interpretation of scripture and I really think we'll all be surprised. Like I said above, I may be just a whiner and nothing more. I acknowledge this.
But you need to know that your approach and know it all tone helps absolutely no one. You are not approaching people with Christian love but rather sanctimonious attacks and you're very defensive when you get it back. While Jesus did condemn and convey the hard truth, He never did it in an arrogant way.
If you want to speak for Jesus, don't shoot people when they are wounded.
Sorry, John, wasn't talking to you...was replying to the Jedi
: Givenup Tue May 28, 2013 - 21:22:51
So, are you comparing yourself to Jesus now? You know, you may be completely right...I don't know, some day it will be revealed to all us the proper interpretation of scripture and I really think we'll all be surprised. Like I said above, I may be just a whiner and nothing more. I acknowledge this.
But you need to know that your approach and know it all tone helps absolutely no one. You are not approaching people with Christian love but rather sanctimonious attacks and you're very defensive when you get it back. While Jesus did condemn and convey the hard truth, He never did it in an arrogant way.
If you want to speak for Jesus, don't shoot people when they are wounded.
No I would never compare myself to Jesus and think I'm on His level. No freakin' way. But being a Christian means being a follower of Christ, and that means we are to follow His example, and His example is full of harsh words for those He felt needed to hear them.
Actually, what I got defensive about was being called a sanctimonious nut job, a moron, and a judgmental wing nut - which by the way, since you're the one who wants to talk about how a compassionate Christian acts - definitely doesn't fall into that category.
You're the head of your house, and that makes you responsible for everything that goes on within it. Your willingness to accept that or not has no bearing on the fact that it's true. Perhaps my approach wasn't as it should have been, but I don't believe in sugar-coating, and will not apologize for speaking my mind. You wanted opinions, I gave you mine. Whether you accept it or not is your prerogative.
I am now bowing out of this thread. If you want to continue, then PM me. If not, then please don't talk anymore nastiness about me here.
The tragic thing here is that you think that nothing can be done. Plenty can be done with the right help. Both for your wife to tackle what her problem is and why she has this block when it comes to sex, and tackling the whole area of your sex life and what you two can do together to make it good and satisfying for both of you.
However while you just do nothing, complain that God is cursing you, and refuse to accept that God can and will help you both, IF you are BOTH prepared to accept that this situation is NOT what God wants for you, and put that effort in, things CAN and WILL change.
Read song of songs. Pick out verses that apply to your situation and pray them for each other daily. Find a good marriage counsellor. I believe in being proactive in life, and if you do nothing then nothing will happen. ITs your choice and its her choice. Is this what you want for the rest of your life? Is this what she wants? Then do nothing. Do you want change? Then act.
Tell her how deeply this is affecting you, and ask her to join with you in working to sort it out.