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A friend asked me this question the other day, 'What is wrong with me?'   By that, she was saying she's 37 and not married.
It's an interesting question because I think our culture (and churches) do put a negative value on people of a certain age who are not married.   Men over 40 are labelled as either 'gay' or 'commitment phobes' and women can be labelled, as thoguh they are needy, whiny or there is fundamentally something wrong with them.

I really, really dislike that!  I'm 39 and haven't been married....and I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with me.  My non-married state is probably down to a few different things, but in my 20s, I had a huge job that involved regular international travel and so I didn't really settle down or get involved in a church.  I didn't have much of a social life either - just seemed to always be on a plane.   When I was 32, I finally met a man I thought I could spend the rest of my life with.   By the age of 37, it was over - when I discovered that despite us committing to not sleeping together, he was doing some terrible things behind my back.   For a while, life as I knew it literally fell apart.

So here I am today, 39, no immediate signs of a husband on the horizon, but I'm getting on cheerfyully with life.  I have friends, a house, a great job, car, some available income, a wonderful church....but not yet met that guy.

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

For women in the church its often just that there simply aren't enough available Christian guys of that sort of age. If there are, say, 2 or 3 women to every one man, then of course that means many women wont get married unless they marry non believers. That's the truth.
Most decent godly guys are snapped up by the age of 30 in my experience, and if a Christian guy does get to 40 without having been married, then there is, I am sorry to say, often something that is putting women off him. Some men do come back on the market after a divorce maybe, but again if he a decent godly man he will again be snapped up very quickly(my husband had been on a Christian dating site for about 2 or 3 days when I snapped him up. I had been on for two years on and off.)

I don't think anything of people of your age being single, because I know the situation. I know many nice young ladies in their 30's who aren't yet married. There is nothing wrong with them except a shortage of men.

Does your friend do anything to meet people? Is she proactive?   I really think that as women with the problems we have of few men in the church, we need to be far more proactive that the men do if we want to meet someone(as in my case).

It is not for someone else to judge if you should be married or not. Who is to say what God's timing is? They should mind their own business.

I am 53, divorced, and no desire to remarry. It is hard for some to understand as on paper I would seem like a great catch. The problem is I have had too many emotional scars in my life and now prefer living alone and not having to work at a relationship. It's nice to have social company now and then but not enough to make a relationship work. Unlike many happy singles I have almost no local friends. I truly am a loner. Yet I am far more at peace this way than trying to date. I get about 2 weeks into dating and bail.

Why is anyone so concerned with someone else's life? Unless you are in sin there is no reason for them to say anything about your state of singleness.

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 09:32:41
It is not for someone else to judge if you should be married or not. Who is to say what God's timing is? They should mind their own business.

I am 53, divorced, and no desire to remarry. It is hard for some to understand as on paper I would seem like a great catch. The problem is I have had too many emotional scars in my life and now prefer living alone and not having to work at a relationship. It's nice to have social company now and then but not enough to make a relationship work. Unlike many happy singles I have almost no local friends. I truly am a loner. Yet I am far more at peace this way than trying to date. I get about 2 weeks into dating and bail.

Why is anyone so concerned with someone else's life? Unless you are in sin there is no reason for them to say anything about your state of singleness.

Are you a guy or a lady?
I am glad you have found peace, you are one of those people who clearly don't need or want much company. I am happy with my own company to an extent but not all the time. I find  it does me a lot of good to get out and met with people/friends whether I feel like it or not. Do you have a local church?.

I can relate to your situation in that I too have had many emotional scars, but in my case it didn't put me off wanting to marry again, and in my late 40's I met and married my second husband. He too was divorced and we 'clicked' immediately.
We are all different and I am much happier since I married him than I was as a single person. Mind you I wasn't going to marry just anyone, he had to be special. The dating process can be daunting and hard, but I also met some nice people in the process. ::smile::

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

..........and yet marriage is the bedrock of society. Every time the institution of marriage begins to crumble and weaken in any society(as it is now), that society weakens, morals plummet and things can fall apart. 
I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first. As you say its also important that we have the wider family and Christian friends as well.
I know too many couples whose only life was really each other, and when one dies or they divorce, the other is completely lost because they had little life outside their own marriage.   

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:37:19

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

No.  She is to submit to her husband as to the Lord.  Marriage is a shadow of the relationship of Jesus Christ and the Church.

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:00:25

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 09:32:41
It is not for someone else to judge if you should be married or not. Who is to say what God's timing is? They should mind their own business.

I am 53, divorced, and no desire to remarry. It is hard for some to understand as on paper I would seem like a great catch. The problem is I have had too many emotional scars in my life and now prefer living alone and not having to work at a relationship. It's nice to have social company now and then but not enough to make a relationship work. Unlike many happy singles I have almost no local friends. I truly am a loner. Yet I am far more at peace this way than trying to date. I get about 2 weeks into dating and bail.

Why is anyone so concerned with someone else's life? Unless you are in sin there is no reason for them to say anything about your state of singleness.

Are you a guy or a lady?
I am glad you have found peace, you are one of those people who clearly don't need or want much company. I am happy with my own company to an extent but not all the time. I find  it does me a lot of good to get out and met with people/friends whether I feel like it or not. Do you have a local church?.

I can relate to your situation in that I too have had many emotional scars, but in my case it didn't put me off wanting to marry again, and in my late 40's I met and married my second husband. He too was divorced and we 'clicked' immediately.
We are all different and I am much happier since I married him than I was as a single person. Mind you I wasn't going to marry just anyone, he had to be special. The dating process can be daunting and hard, but I also met some nice people in the process. ::smile::

I am a guy. I do have a local church but pretty much keep to myself these days. Years ago I was super active teaching adult Bible studies, leading a college and career group, and even preached once. When I got divorced though (not at this church) I was treated like a second class citizen. I was damaged goods no matter what the cause. The opportunities to contribute dried up. While I love to teach and suffer no stage fright, I am NOT a group person. I suffer from some social anxiety so being in groups is not fun for me. I would never join a singles groups for example. I also don't like fellowship groups or Bible studies except for the actual study time and then only if it is meaty. If it's more about socializing then I'm gone.

For me though the history is long. I grew up with an alcoholic Mom and from the age of 3 to 17 I lived in a highly dysfunctional home. I was pretty scared and suffering from a type of post-traumatic stress syndrome. I hardly dated until I met my future wife at age 28. I then made a poor decision to get married to her. Partly I was not up for marriage but she became extremely dogmatic, legalistic, and cult-like and that led to endless problems and stress. I eventually ended up with stress/anxiety problems so bad they tested me for MS. I hung in there for 19 years until my health was failing.

So now I find being alone peaceful. No conflict, no one I have to talk to or do things with. It is so nice to come home to a quiet house. Sure I enjoy company at times but I still cannot handle stress especially interpersonal. Just the expectations of a relationship are too much. I don't want to have to go out regularly. I may have a weekend or two where I don't want to go out at all. That doesn't work in a serious relationship. Your partner expects to spend time with you and if you don't want to spend time with them they naturally feel unwanted.  For me little social contact goes a long ways. I sleep better alone and don't think I would enjoy having someone else around all the time. A few dates a month and maybe a vacation or two together is not enough to make a marriage work. Marriage is meant to be a close, intimate relationship where you truly share your life with someone. I can't be happy with that level of intimacy. It is simply too much. I need a lot of space and alone time. At 53 I don't expect that to change. I have been to numerous Christian counselors and pastors and nothing changes. I'm afraid the damage is done. I don't believe it is a matter of meeting the right person. I have met some great ladies I absolutely adored yet still did not want to spend a lot of time with them. Where I differ from most people I know like me is my lack of friends or social contact. I am truly alone the vast majority of the time. Yet I am never bored and rarely lonely. I still *feel* like I am supposed to be with someone and I am certainly still very attracted to women yet I know from experience I won't be happy. So for now I am not even going to try.

: Texas Conservative  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:40:52

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:37:19

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

No.  She is to submit to her husband as to the Lord.  Marriage is a shadow of the relationship of Jesus Christ and the Church.

This is true, but where did this come from?

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:37:19

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

My first ministry, after God,  is to my husband and children. They come before those outside the family always.
God tells us in the Bible how we are to act as married people.  I have seen too many spouses and children being neglected because of what some call 'Gods work'.

Jesus was making a point that believing in him can mean that your family will reject you and of course that does happen.  We must be prepared to loose family members if that is the case. God first then family.

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:43:35

: Texas Conservative  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:40:52

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:37:19

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

No.  She is to submit to her husband as to the Lord.  Marriage is a shadow of the relationship of Jesus Christ and the Church.

This is true, but where did this come from?

The Bible.

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:42:51

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:00:25

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 09:32:41
It is not for someone else to judge if you should be married or not. Who is to say what God's timing is? They should mind their own business.

I am 53, divorced, and no desire to remarry. It is hard for some to understand as on paper I would seem like a great catch. The problem is I have had too many emotional scars in my life and now prefer living alone and not having to work at a relationship. It's nice to have social company now and then but not enough to make a relationship work. Unlike many happy singles I have almost no local friends. I truly am a loner. Yet I am far more at peace this way than trying to date. I get about 2 weeks into dating and bail.

Why is anyone so concerned with someone else's life? Unless you are in sin there is no reason for them to say anything about your state of singleness.

Are you a guy or a lady?
I am glad you have found peace, you are one of those people who clearly don't need or want much company. I am happy with my own company to an extent but not all the time. I find  it does me a lot of good to get out and met with people/friends whether I feel like it or not. Do you have a local church?.

I can relate to your situation in that I too have had many emotional scars, but in my case it didn't put me off wanting to marry again, and in my late 40's I met and married my second husband. He too was divorced and we 'clicked' immediately.
We are all different and I am much happier since I married him than I was as a single person. Mind you I wasn't going to marry just anyone, he had to be special. The dating process can be daunting and hard, but I also met some nice people in the process. ::smile::

I am a guy. I do have a local church but pretty much keep to myself these days. Years ago I was super active teaching adult Bible studies, leading a college and career group, and even preached once. When I got divorced though (not at this church) I was treated like a second class citizen. I was damaged goods no matter what the cause. The opportunities to contribute dried up. While I love to teach and suffer no stage fright, I am NOT a group person. I suffer from some social anxiety so being in groups is not fun for me. I would never join a singles groups for example. I also don't like fellowship groups or Bible studies except for the actual study time and then only if it is meaty. If it's more about socializing then I'm gone.

For me though the history is long. I grew up with an alcoholic Mom and from the age of 3 to 17 I lived in a highly dysfunctional home. I was pretty scared and suffering from a type of post-traumatic stress syndrome. I hardly dated until I met my future wife at age 28. I then made a poor decision to get married to her. Partly I was not up for marriage but she became extremely dogmatic, legalistic, and cult-like and that led to endless problems and stress. I eventually ended up with stress/anxiety problems so bad they tested me for MS. I hung in there for 19 years until my health was failing.

So now I find being alone peaceful. No conflict, no one I have to talk to or do things with. It is so nice to come home to a quiet house. Sure I enjoy company at times but I still cannot handle stress especially interpersonal. Just the expectations of a relationship are too much. I don't want to have to go out regularly. I may have a weekend or two where I don't want to go out at all. That doesn't work in a serious relationship. Your partner expects to spend time with you and if you don't want to spend time with them they naturally feel unwanted.  For me little social contact goes a long ways. I sleep better alone and don't think I would enjoy having someone else around all the time. A few dates a month and maybe a vacation or two together is not enough to make a marriage work. Marriage is meant to be a close, intimate relationship where you truly share your life with someone. I can't be happy with that level of intimacy. It is simply too much. I need a lot of space and alone time. At 53 I don't expect that to change. I have been to numerous Christian counselors and pastors and nothing changes. I'm afraid the damage is done. I don't believe it is a matter of meeting the right person. I have met some great ladies I absolutely adored yet still did not want to spend a lot of time with them. Where I differ from most people I know like me is my lack of friends or social contact. I am truly alone the vast majority of the time. Yet I am never bored and rarely lonely. I still *feel* like I am supposed to be with someone and I am certainly still very attracted to women yet I know from experience I won't be happy. So for now I am not even going to try.

Do you think that God wants you to be so cut off from the church family and not using any of the gifts that God has given you? I suppose it can be easier and seem safer not to try, and not to have to relate to people, but should we always take the easy option in Gods family?
Do you have a job?

I have a step son a little bit like you. He too struggles with making close friends and having relationships. He is getting towards his late 20's now and has only had one short relationship. Trouble is it self perpetuating, because he has never left home, still lives with him mum, avoids church, wont do anything that may be a bit hard or challenging, seems to have no desire to be independent, and apart for work is more or less cut off from life. He has no Christian friends of anywhere near his own age, and only seems to mix with his mums middle aged divorced friends. Its so unhealthy for him.
I know from experience with my own children that it is only when we leave home, become independent, look after ourselves and make that effort to get out there and get to know people, that we grow and mature and learn how to relate and get on with others.

My husband and I are also both divorced after long first marriages, but I cant say I have ever experienced any problems because of that ever in church. I have also never been made to feel like a second class citizen, but maybe that's because I dont feel that way myself because I know I am not. Maybe you need to find a better church than that.  ::shrug::

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:58:42

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:43:35

: Texas Conservative  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:40:52

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:37:19

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

No.  She is to submit to her husband as to the Lord.  Marriage is a shadow of the relationship of Jesus Christ and the Church.

This is true, but where did this come from?

The Bible.

Are you serious? I said that what he said was true. But how is an argument against the OTHER SCRIPTURE that I quoted?

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:14:15

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:58:42

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:43:35

: Texas Conservative  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:40:52

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:37:19

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first

Are you not arguing with Jesus?

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

and
Matthew 10:35-36
For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

No.  She is to submit to her husband as to the Lord.  Marriage is a shadow of the relationship of Jesus Christ and the Church.

This is true, but where did this come from?

The Bible.

Are you serious? I said that what he said was true. But how is an argument against the OTHER SCRIPTURE that I quoted?

He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:03:20

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:42:51

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:00:25

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 09:32:41
It is not for someone else to judge if you should be married or not. Who is to say what God's timing is? They should mind their own business.

I am 53, divorced, and no desire to remarry. It is hard for some to understand as on paper I would seem like a great catch. The problem is I have had too many emotional scars in my life and now prefer living alone and not having to work at a relationship. It's nice to have social company now and then but not enough to make a relationship work. Unlike many happy singles I have almost no local friends. I truly am a loner. Yet I am far more at peace this way than trying to date. I get about 2 weeks into dating and bail.

Why is anyone so concerned with someone else's life? Unless you are in sin there is no reason for them to say anything about your state of singleness.

Are you a guy or a lady?
I am glad you have found peace, you are one of those people who clearly don't need or want much company. I am happy with my own company to an extent but not all the time. I find  it does me a lot of good to get out and met with people/friends whether I feel like it or not. Do you have a local church?.

I can relate to your situation in that I too have had many emotional scars, but in my case it didn't put me off wanting to marry again, and in my late 40's I met and married my second husband. He too was divorced and we 'clicked' immediately.
We are all different and I am much happier since I married him than I was as a single person. Mind you I wasn't going to marry just anyone, he had to be special. The dating process can be daunting and hard, but I also met some nice people in the process. ::smile::

I am a guy. I do have a local church but pretty much keep to myself these days. Years ago I was super active teaching adult Bible studies, leading a college and career group, and even preached once. When I got divorced though (not at this church) I was treated like a second class citizen. I was damaged goods no matter what the cause. The opportunities to contribute dried up. While I love to teach and suffer no stage fright, I am NOT a group person. I suffer from some social anxiety so being in groups is not fun for me. I would never join a singles groups for example. I also don't like fellowship groups or Bible studies except for the actual study time and then only if it is meaty. If it's more about socializing then I'm gone.

For me though the history is long. I grew up with an alcoholic Mom and from the age of 3 to 17 I lived in a highly dysfunctional home. I was pretty scared and suffering from a type of post-traumatic stress syndrome. I hardly dated until I met my future wife at age 28. I then made a poor decision to get married to her. Partly I was not up for marriage but she became extremely dogmatic, legalistic, and cult-like and that led to endless problems and stress. I eventually ended up with stress/anxiety problems so bad they tested me for MS. I hung in there for 19 years until my health was failing.

So now I find being alone peaceful. No conflict, no one I have to talk to or do things with. It is so nice to come home to a quiet house. Sure I enjoy company at times but I still cannot handle stress especially interpersonal. Just the expectations of a relationship are too much. I don't want to have to go out regularly. I may have a weekend or two where I don't want to go out at all. That doesn't work in a serious relationship. Your partner expects to spend time with you and if you don't want to spend time with them they naturally feel unwanted.  For me little social contact goes a long ways. I sleep better alone and don't think I would enjoy having someone else around all the time. A few dates a month and maybe a vacation or two together is not enough to make a marriage work. Marriage is meant to be a close, intimate relationship where you truly share your life with someone. I can't be happy with that level of intimacy. It is simply too much. I need a lot of space and alone time. At 53 I don't expect that to change. I have been to numerous Christian counselors and pastors and nothing changes. I'm afraid the damage is done. I don't believe it is a matter of meeting the right person. I have met some great ladies I absolutely adored yet still did not want to spend a lot of time with them. Where I differ from most people I know like me is my lack of friends or social contact. I am truly alone the vast majority of the time. Yet I am never bored and rarely lonely. I still *feel* like I am supposed to be with someone and I am certainly still very attracted to women yet I know from experience I won't be happy. So for now I am not even going to try.

Do you think that God wants you to be so cut off from the church family and not using any of the gifts that God has given you? I suppose it can be easier and seem safer not to try, and not to have to relate to people, but should we always take the easy option in Gods family?
Do you have a job?

I have a step son a little bit like you. He too struggles with making close friends and having relationships. He is getting towards his late 20's now and has only had one short relationship. Trouble is it self perpetuating, because he has never left home, still lives with him mum, avoids church, wont do anything that may be a bit hard or challenging, seems to have no desire to be independent, and apart for work is more or less cut off from life. He has no Christian friends of anywhere near his own age, and only seems to mix with his mums middle aged divorced friends. Its so unhealthy for him.
I know from experience with my own children that it is only when we leave home, become independent, look after ourselves and make that effort to get out there and get to know people, that we grow and mature and learn how to relate and get on with others.

My husband and I are also both divorced after long first marriages, but I cant say I have ever experienced any problems because of that ever in church. I have also never been made to feel like a second class citizen, but maybe that's because I dont feel that way myself because I know I am not. Maybe you need to find a better church than that.  ::shrug::

Yes I have a job. Same one for 31.5 years. Trust me I have tried and at times been very active at church. In the end though I just crave time alone. Being around people drains me. I recharge by being alone.  I did not get enough alone time when married. How can you? You share the same living space. I needed whole days or weekends not just a few hours out. A few hours a week with someone would be sufficient for me. That is not a marriage. I care for people and am always one to help those in need. I just can't enjoy a lot of people time.

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 15:22:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:03:20

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 12:42:51

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:00:25

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 09:32:41
It is not for someone else to judge if you should be married or not. Who is to say what God's timing is? They should mind their own business.

I am 53, divorced, and no desire to remarry. It is hard for some to understand as on paper I would seem like a great catch. The problem is I have had too many emotional scars in my life and now prefer living alone and not having to work at a relationship. It's nice to have social company now and then but not enough to make a relationship work. Unlike many happy singles I have almost no local friends. I truly am a loner. Yet I am far more at peace this way than trying to date. I get about 2 weeks into dating and bail.

Why is anyone so concerned with someone else's life? Unless you are in sin there is no reason for them to say anything about your state of singleness.

Are you a guy or a lady?
I am glad you have found peace, you are one of those people who clearly don't need or want much company. I am happy with my own company to an extent but not all the time. I find  it does me a lot of good to get out and met with people/friends whether I feel like it or not. Do you have a local church?.

I can relate to your situation in that I too have had many emotional scars, but in my case it didn't put me off wanting to marry again, and in my late 40's I met and married my second husband. He too was divorced and we 'clicked' immediately.
We are all different and I am much happier since I married him than I was as a single person. Mind you I wasn't going to marry just anyone, he had to be special. The dating process can be daunting and hard, but I also met some nice people in the process. ::smile::

I am a guy. I do have a local church but pretty much keep to myself these days. Years ago I was super active teaching adult Bible studies, leading a college and career group, and even preached once. When I got divorced though (not at this church) I was treated like a second class citizen. I was damaged goods no matter what the cause. The opportunities to contribute dried up. While I love to teach and suffer no stage fright, I am NOT a group person. I suffer from some social anxiety so being in groups is not fun for me. I would never join a singles groups for example. I also don't like fellowship groups or Bible studies except for the actual study time and then only if it is meaty. If it's more about socializing then I'm gone.

For me though the history is long. I grew up with an alcoholic Mom and from the age of 3 to 17 I lived in a highly dysfunctional home. I was pretty scared and suffering from a type of post-traumatic stress syndrome. I hardly dated until I met my future wife at age 28. I then made a poor decision to get married to her. Partly I was not up for marriage but she became extremely dogmatic, legalistic, and cult-like and that led to endless problems and stress. I eventually ended up with stress/anxiety problems so bad they tested me for MS. I hung in there for 19 years until my health was failing.

So now I find being alone peaceful. No conflict, no one I have to talk to or do things with. It is so nice to come home to a quiet house. Sure I enjoy company at times but I still cannot handle stress especially interpersonal. Just the expectations of a relationship are too much. I don't want to have to go out regularly. I may have a weekend or two where I don't want to go out at all. That doesn't work in a serious relationship. Your partner expects to spend time with you and if you don't want to spend time with them they naturally feel unwanted.  For me little social contact goes a long ways. I sleep better alone and don't think I would enjoy having someone else around all the time. A few dates a month and maybe a vacation or two together is not enough to make a marriage work. Marriage is meant to be a close, intimate relationship where you truly share your life with someone. I can't be happy with that level of intimacy. It is simply too much. I need a lot of space and alone time. At 53 I don't expect that to change. I have been to numerous Christian counselors and pastors and nothing changes. I'm afraid the damage is done. I don't believe it is a matter of meeting the right person. I have met some great ladies I absolutely adored yet still did not want to spend a lot of time with them. Where I differ from most people I know like me is my lack of friends or social contact. I am truly alone the vast majority of the time. Yet I am never bored and rarely lonely. I still *feel* like I am supposed to be with someone and I am certainly still very attracted to women yet I know from experience I won't be happy. So for now I am not even going to try.

Do you think that God wants you to be so cut off from the church family and not using any of the gifts that God has given you? I suppose it can be easier and seem safer not to try, and not to have to relate to people, but should we always take the easy option in Gods family?
Do you have a job?

I have a step son a little bit like you. He too struggles with making close friends and having relationships. He is getting towards his late 20's now and has only had one short relationship. Trouble is it self perpetuating, because he has never left home, still lives with him mum, avoids church, wont do anything that may be a bit hard or challenging, seems to have no desire to be independent, and apart for work is more or less cut off from life. He has no Christian friends of anywhere near his own age, and only seems to mix with his mums middle aged divorced friends. Its so unhealthy for him.
I know from experience with my own children that it is only when we leave home, become independent, look after ourselves and make that effort to get out there and get to know people, that we grow and mature and learn how to relate and get on with others.

My husband and I are also both divorced after long first marriages, but I cant say I have ever experienced any problems because of that ever in church. I have also never been made to feel like a second class citizen, but maybe that's because I dont feel that way myself because I know I am not. Maybe you need to find a better church than that.  ::shrug::

Yes I have a job. Same one for 31.5 years. Trust me I have tried and at times been very active at church. In the end though I just crave time alone. Being around people drains me. I recharge by being alone.  I did not get enough alone time when married. How can you? You share the same living space. I needed whole days or weekends not just a few hours out. A few hours a week with someone would be sufficient for me. That is not a marriage. I care for people and am always one to help those in need. I just can't enjoy a lot of people time.

I too need quiet time away from people to recharge(apart from my husband, because I am 100% relaxed with him), that is what an introvert is like, but seeing people for shortish periods is usually fine, and how can we do what God leads us to do and be a light if we are isolated? Doesnt being isolated make the situation even worse?
Have you ever thought that you may be slightly autistic? I believe that my step son is slightly autistic but neither of his parents seemed to have noticed this or ever got him checked as he was growing up. He does seem to have many of the symptoms.

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

My original point was just that I feel that expectations of marriage are too high. People need a variety of relationships found within the family of God but not necessarily a marriage (and again, bonds of marriage are not eternal while the family of God is), so I believe that some attitudes toward marriage place too high of an expectation of one relationship to fulfill all needs. I believe that a healthy attitude toward marriage includes the understanding that it does must not be treated like a replacement for other sorts of relationships is all.

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:41:28

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

No comment on the scriptures I quoted?

Ok the quoting is getting too confusing! Responding to chosenone, I do no believe I am autistic nor has any professional ever suggested it. I have been told by professionals that I suffer from PTSD and Social Anxiety as well as Sexual Anxiety. My 93 yr old Mom prefers to be alone and my late sister was single all but 4 years of her life to the age of 60. However my other two siblings have both been happily married for a long time.

I look for ways to minister to people through emails, prayers, blogs, helping hands, etc. I may not get as much people contact as ideally I should but forcing it does not work. I tried going to a Friday night Bible study when I as married and would literally get physically ill some Fridays not wanting to go. My stomach would be in knots. I wish I were different but have accepted who I am. I will probably never know what a good marriage is like or what it is like to be super close to another person. However, I have the Lord and that is all I truly need.

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20
The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

That is because you are looking in the wrong place.  Try Genesis 2:24.  In Hebrew, the word for "flesh" includes what we call spirit and soul. It means the entire person.

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:44:39

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:41:28

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

No comment on the scriptures I quoted?

I have already commented on them a few posts back.

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 18:41:10
Ok the quoting is getting too confusing! Responding to chosenone, I do no believe I am autistic nor has any professional ever suggested it. I have been told by professionals that I suffer from PTSD and Social Anxiety as well as Sexual Anxiety. My 93 yr old Mom prefers to be alone and my late sister was single all but 4 years of her life to the age of 60. However my other two siblings have both been happily married for a long time.

I look for ways to minister to people through emails, prayers, blogs, helping hands, etc. I may not get as much people contact as ideally I should but forcing it does not work. I tried going to a Friday night Bible study when I as married and would literally get physically ill some Fridays not wanting to go. My stomach would be in knots. I wish I were different but have accepted who I am. I will probably never know what a good marriage is like or what it is like to be super close to another person. However, I have the Lord and that is all I truly need.

Now thats interesting that you mentioned PTSD.
I have heard so many people lately saying they are suffering from PTSD. Some who have not been through much at all. Do you think its the new buzz word? You never heard it at all a few years back and now I am hearing it everywhere. I wonder how professionals discern when someone who has had a bad loss, or a trauma their lives has PTSD, or merely have the normal grieving and suffering associated with the things they have been through? How can anyone tell the difference?
It was use originally for those who had been in a war situation or who had been through a very traumatic life even such as a bomb explosion, and had been badly injured.  In the paper yesterday I read about a lady claiming she couldn't work due to PTSD after her mums death  2 years ago. Now most people loose their mums at some point unless they die first, but to claim she had PSTD 2 years later so she couldn't work, seemed mad to me.
What do you think?

I have struggled with how my introversion affects my ability to minister but then I realize how many people I have helped, all the teaching I have done, and how there are many ways to minister to others including through email, Facebook, phone calls, and prayer. I hope to do a lot of writing in the future.

: ohcalidatex  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 20:18:11
I have struggled with how my introversion affects my ability to minister but then I realize how many people I have helped, all the teaching I have done, and how there are many ways to minister to others including through email, Facebook, phone calls, and prayer. I hope to do a lot of writing in the future.

Yes you are right. God has called me to be a mod here for the time being. While I also get out and about and meet family and friends and others, I have seen how much we can do in other ways, in one case God used me to literally save a young ladies life.

: chosenone  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 10:39:01

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 18:41:10
Ok the quoting is getting too confusing! Responding to chosenone, I do no believe I am autistic nor has any professional ever suggested it. I have been told by professionals that I suffer from PTSD and Social Anxiety as well as Sexual Anxiety. My 93 yr old Mom prefers to be alone and my late sister was single all but 4 years of her life to the age of 60. However my other two siblings have both been happily married for a long time.

I look for ways to minister to people through emails, prayers, blogs, helping hands, etc. I may not get as much people contact as ideally I should but forcing it does not work. I tried going to a Friday night Bible study when I as married and would literally get physically ill some Fridays not wanting to go. My stomach would be in knots. I wish I were different but have accepted who I am. I will probably never know what a good marriage is like or what it is like to be super close to another person. However, I have the Lord and that is all I truly need.

Now thats interesting that you mentioned PTSD.
I have heard so many people lately saying they are suffering from PTSD. Some who have not been through much at all. Do you think its the new buzz word? You never heard it at all a few years back and now I am hearing it everywhere. I wonder how professionals discern when someone who has had a bad loss, or a trauma their lives has PTSD, or merely have the normal grieving and suffering associated with the things they have been through? How can anyone tell the difference?
It was use originally for those who had been in a war situation or who had been through a very traumatic life even such as a bomb explosion, and had been badly injured.  In the paper yesterday I read about a lady claiming she couldn't work due to PTSD after her mums death  2 years ago. Now most people loose their mums at some point unless they die first, but to claim she had PSTD 2 years later so she couldn't work, seemed mad to me.
What do you think?

Good point. I've read different definitions of PTSD. Maybe that is not the best term to use. Whatever you want to call it I spent 14 years from the age of 3 to 17 living in a highly stressful and dysfunctional home due to an alcoholic mother. Later I was in a 19 year marriage to a psychotic, emotionally abusive woman. Those events have deeply affected me and are not easy to shake off. By the time I left for college I was pretty messed up from my childhood. I could not handle stress. It was like my body had overdosed on stress for those 14 years and now could not handle it. Dating was stressful so I just did not date much. From the age of 22 to 27 I did not date or have any meaningful contact with young women.

When married things eventually got so bad I would literally get the dry heaves pulling into the driveway at night after work. The anticipation of walking through the door and being in the presence of my wife was too much. Eventually I began to develop strange neurological symptoms to the extent that they thought I might have MS. After six months of tests and study they determined I was simply reacting to the extreme stress in my life. I have been on medication ever since although less now. This is no doubt why I prefer to live alone. In the past "home" was associated with stress. Now I walk into a peaceful home at the end of the day. I may be alone but it's peaceful. The thought of sharing that space with another person is immediately stressful. I know not all people are like my Mom or ex-wife but at the same time I am not super sensitive to stress and even a good relationship has it's ups and downs the I find them stressful. The stress can quickly build and be almost debilitating. So it's not worth it. I am used to being alone and entertaining myself. Being an introvert is key to that working. Sure in theory a great relationship would be even better but at this point in my life I just want peace. I don't want to go through a lot of stress trying to change just because in the long-run I might be even happier. If my life is peaceful that is happy enough for me. Not having known much emotional of physical intimacy in some ways is good as I truly don't know what I am missing. Hard to want something you know nothing about. I know it's hard for outsiders to understand. I have met a lot of wonderful women who wanted badly to have a long-term relationship with me and I had to disappoint them. I know though it would not have worked.

We live in a fallen world and sometimes things happen that affect us for the rest of our lives. I will always strive to serve the Lord and glorify Him with my life. I don't know if that will ever include marriage.

: ohcalidatex  Tue Feb 25, 2014 - 12:47:20

: chosenone  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 10:39:01

: ohcalidatex  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 18:41:10
Ok the quoting is getting too confusing! Responding to chosenone, I do no believe I am autistic nor has any professional ever suggested it. I have been told by professionals that I suffer from PTSD and Social Anxiety as well as Sexual Anxiety. My 93 yr old Mom prefers to be alone and my late sister was single all but 4 years of her life to the age of 60. However my other two siblings have both been happily married for a long time.

I look for ways to minister to people through emails, prayers, blogs, helping hands, etc. I may not get as much people contact as ideally I should but forcing it does not work. I tried going to a Friday night Bible study when I as married and would literally get physically ill some Fridays not wanting to go. My stomach would be in knots. I wish I were different but have accepted who I am. I will probably never know what a good marriage is like or what it is like to be super close to another person. However, I have the Lord and that is all I truly need.

Now thats interesting that you mentioned PTSD.
I have heard so many people lately saying they are suffering from PTSD. Some who have not been through much at all. Do you think its the new buzz word? You never heard it at all a few years back and now I am hearing it everywhere. I wonder how professionals discern when someone who has had a bad loss, or a trauma their lives has PTSD, or merely have the normal grieving and suffering associated with the things they have been through? How can anyone tell the difference?
It was use originally for those who had been in a war situation or who had been through a very traumatic life even such as a bomb explosion, and had been badly injured.  In the paper yesterday I read about a lady claiming she couldn't work due to PTSD after her mums death  2 years ago. Now most people loose their mums at some point unless they die first, but to claim she had PSTD 2 years later so she couldn't work, seemed mad to me.
What do you think?

Good point. I've read different definitions of PTSD. Maybe that is not the best term to use. Whatever you want to call it I spent 14 years from the age of 3 to 17 living in a highly stressful and dysfunctional home due to an alcoholic mother. Later I was in a 19 year marriage to a psychotic, emotionally abusive woman. Those events have deeply affected me and are not easy to shake off. By the time I left for college I was pretty messed up from my childhood. I could not handle stress. It was like my body had overdosed on stress for those 14 years and now could not handle it. Dating was stressful so I just did not date much. From the age of 22 to 27 I did not date or have any meaningful contact with young women.

When married things eventually got so bad I would literally get the dry heaves pulling into the driveway at night after work. The anticipation of walking through the door and being in the presence of my wife was too much. Eventually I began to develop strange neurological symptoms to the extent that they thought I might have MS. After six months of tests and study they determined I was simply reacting to the extreme stress in my life. I have been on medication ever since although less now. This is no doubt why I prefer to live alone. In the past "home" was associated with stress. Now I walk into a peaceful home at the end of the day. I may be alone but it's peaceful. The thought of sharing that space with another person is immediately stressful. I know not all people are like my Mom or ex-wife but at the same time I am not super sensitive to stress and even a good relationship has it's ups and downs the I find them stressful. The stress can quickly build and be almost debilitating. So it's not worth it. I am used to being alone and entertaining myself. Being an introvert is key to that working. Sure in theory a great relationship would be even better but at this point in my life I just want peace. I don't want to go through a lot of stress trying to change just because in the long-run I might be even happier. If my life is peaceful that is happy enough for me. Not having known much emotional of physical intimacy in some ways is good as I truly don't know what I am missing. Hard to want something you know nothing about. I know it's hard for outsiders to understand. I have met a lot of wonderful women who wanted badly to have a long-term relationship with me and I had to disappoint them. I know though it would not have worked.

We live in a fallen world and sometimes things happen that affect us for the rest of our lives. I will always strive to serve the Lord and glorify Him with my life. I don't know if that will ever include marriage.

  I am very blessed, because I have the most laid back, patient, easy going, easy to live with, easy to please husband ever. I am always completely relaxed with him and he never ever gets cross, angry, or looses his temper. My father and first husband were quite hard to live with, always having to walk on egg shells, so its such a relief and a blessing to me to have someone who is so different.

Its interesting that we so often chose partners who are so like our own parents, even if they were awful(as in your case). My husbands first wife was very like his mother, manipulative and controlling.

I think the key is people should not judge. They don't know your background. If someone is single and not actively seeking marriage that does not mean they are selfish or have something wrong with them. Don't try to change them. I've read some good articles and books on introversion and non-introverts typically don't understand introverts. They think, for example, you just need to get out more when in fact "getting out" might stress an introvert even more and be a negative thing. Introverts tend to prefer one-on-one in quiet places and not groups. Inviting them out to your group hangout is probably not something they are going to enjoy.

I also hate when people tell me I "deserve to meet someone who will really love me." I have. His name is Jesus Christ. That relationship is purely by grace. I only deserve hell. Anything else is the pure grace of God. He is all we truly need. So no I don't "deserve" to meet someone and live happily ever after. If that's God's will then great but I don't see it as something I deserve. I also hate the no-win argument that "you just haven't met the right person yet." I can never disprove that as I'll never meet all the eligible women in the world! Even if I did and found no one they would simply say I no doubt had met the "right person" but was blind to her or rejected her without giving her a chance. For some people meeting the "right person" is the key but for others there may not be a "right person." They just aren't cutout for marriage.

I know it's sad but when I think about having someone in my life (assuming I could overcome past events) I still don't see much of an advantage over living alone. That is a strong testimony to how my past has affected me. Outside of one brief college girl friend 30+ years ago I have not had a positive relationship with a woman so being paired up with someone and being happy together is a foreign concept to me. I see happy couples in restaurants and other places and marvel how they can enjoy each other's company so much and so often. It reminds me of the verse in Hebrews 2 where it speaks of how the angels "long to look into" the salvation of man. They marvel at God's grace to sinners. It is foreign to them as the fallen angels were not offered salvation. In a way I look with longing yet an inability to relate to happy couples. It is my loss I know but I am so far from that. God is able and if it's His will I might change someday but I'm not holding my breath nor putting my life on hold.

ohcalidatex - I am an introvert.  I get introverts.

But you are actually beyond that.  I would suggest you get some biblical counseling and healing from some very severe wounds you are carrying around.

While we are not all commanded to be married, we all are all commanded to be intimately involved with the people in our congregations. (see 1 Cor 12)  Your wounding I suspect makes that either very difficult or impossible.

Thanks Dave. I have gone through hundreds and hundreds of hours of Biblical counseling. Nothing has changed for me. I have tried believe me. I have prayed. That is the hardest part to deal with. When nothing changes you feel like such a failure.

: DaveW  Tue Feb 25, 2014 - 13:56:54
ohcalidatex - I am an introvert.  I get introverts.

But you are actually beyond that.  I would suggest you get some biblical counseling and healing from some very severe wounds you are carrying around.

While we are not all commanded to be married, we all are all commanded to be intimately involved with the people in our congregations. (see 1 Cor 12)  Your wounding I suspect makes that either very difficult or impossible.

  I agree with this because I to tend towards being an introvert myself. Counselling alone isn't enough, it has to be the Holy Spirit who heals deep down.  He is the only one who can truly heal the deep wounds that we have. 

: ohcalidatex  Tue Feb 25, 2014 - 13:50:59
I think the key is people should not judge. They don't know your background. If someone is single and not actively seeking marriage that does not mean they are selfish or have something wrong with them. Don't try to change them. I've read some good articles and books on introversion and non-introverts typically don't understand introverts. They think, for example, you just need to get out more when in fact "getting out" might stress an introvert even more and be a negative thing. Introverts tend to prefer one-on-one in quiet places and not groups. Inviting them out to your group hangout is probably not something they are going to enjoy.

I also hate when people tell me I "deserve to meet someone who will really love me." I have. His name is Jesus Christ. That relationship is purely by grace. I only deserve hell. Anything else is the pure grace of God. He is all we truly need. So no I don't "deserve" to meet someone and live happily ever after. If that's God's will then great but I don't see it as something I deserve. I also hate the no-win argument that "you just haven't met the right person yet." I can never disprove that as I'll never meet all the eligible women in the world! Even if I did and found no one they would simply say I no doubt had met the "right person" but was blind to her or rejected her without giving her a chance. For some people meeting the "right person" is the key but for others there may not be a "right person." They just aren't cutout for marriage.

I know it's sad but when I think about having someone in my life (assuming I could overcome past events) I still don't see much of an advantage over living alone. That is a strong testimony to how my past has affected me. Outside of one brief college girl friend 30+ years ago I have not had a positive relationship with a woman so being paired up with someone and being happy together is a foreign concept to me. I see happy couples in restaurants and other places and marvel how they can enjoy each other's company so much and so often. It reminds me of the verse in Hebrews 2 where it speaks of how the angels "long to look into" the salvation of man. They marvel at God's grace to sinners. It is foreign to them as the fallen angels were not offered salvation. In a way I look with longing yet an inability to relate to happy couples. It is my loss I know but I am so far from that. God is able and if it's His will I might change someday but I'm not holding my breath nor putting my life on hold.

Well it certainly doesn't bother me if a person isn't interested in getting married. If you are happy alone then stay that way.

: chosenone  Tue Feb 25, 2014 - 14:55:27

: DaveW  Tue Feb 25, 2014 - 13:56:54
ohcalidatex - I am an introvert.  I get introverts.

But you are actually beyond that.  I would suggest you get some biblical counseling and healing from some very severe wounds you are carrying around.

While we are not all commanded to be married, we all are all commanded to be intimately involved with the people in our congregations. (see 1 Cor 12)  Your wounding I suspect makes that either very difficult or impossible.

Just thinking out loud here but while we are commanded to be involved certainly there is room within that command for different types of people and interaction. You don't have to be a social butterfly or spend hours and hours a week around other people to minister to them. Sometimes it's proving a meal, lending a hand on moving day, praying, providing a ride, etc. Those who are more outgoing will tend to do more of the face-to-face ministering while us introverts will be more behind the scenes. While not doing so currently, in the past I have taught children's classes, college and career, adult Bible studies, and even guest preached.  I was asked to be an elder but declined. I'm just not that social. When the Bible study is over I am not one to hang out for another hour talking to people. I may linger a bit then hit the road. I have no problem teaching or speaking in front of any size group. No stage fright. I'm just not one for socializing afterwards. So while that might limit my ability to minister in some areas I do minister in others. There may be some really outgoing people who are great at ministering in person talking to people but who could never get up in front of a group and teach. My introversion has afforded me the time to gain the equivalent of an MDiv and be able to teach in great depth. We are not all hands or feet...

  I agree with this because I to tend towards being an introvert myself. Counselling alone isn't enough, it has to be the Holy Spirit who heals deep down.  He is the only one who can truly heal the deep wounds that we have.

: ohcalidatex  Tue Feb 25, 2014 - 14:04:29
Thanks Dave. I have gone through hundreds and hundreds of hours of Biblical counseling. Nothing has changed for me. I have tried believe me. I have prayed. That is the hardest part to deal with. When nothing changes you feel like such a failure.

What type(s) of biblical counseling have you participated in?

Nouthetic? It is good but limited because it is based on a cessationist platform.  But it is a very good foundation for the following styles.

Theophostic?  It is good but has a certain limited scope.

Elijah House?  Good result that relies on supernatural revelation to both counselor and counselee.

And there is another style that concentrates on certain schemes of the devil. I do not recall the name.

I know of one counseling place that combines several of these methods and that is at Christian City Church in Annapolis MD.

If you have only been thru cessationist counseling rather than a style that relies on the Holy Spirit revelation, and it is a truly spiritual problem; it is not surprising you have had little progress.

None of the above. I get burned out on counseling anyways. It's going to have to happen on my own.

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 10:50:42
None of the above. I get burned out on counseling anyways. It's going to have to happen on my own.

Have you ever had Holy Spirit ministry as opposed to normal counselling? Its only the Holy spirit who can heal us inside, no amount of counselling can do that.

: chosenone  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 15:46:23

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 10:50:42
None of the above. I get burned out on counseling anyways. It's going to have to happen on my own.

Have you ever had Holy Spirit ministry as opposed to normal counselling? Its only the Holy spirit who can heal us inside, no amount of counselling can do that.

You will have to define/describe what you mean by "Holy Spirit ministry." I am not familiar with that term other than the obvious fact that as a believer I have the Holy Spirit within me ministering to me. I suspect though you have something more specific in mind.

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 16:58:26

: chosenone  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 15:46:23

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 10:50:42
None of the above. I get burned out on counseling anyways. It's going to have to happen on my own.

Have you ever had Holy Spirit ministry as opposed to normal counselling? Its only the Holy spirit who can heal us inside, no amount of counselling can do that.

You will have to define/describe what you mean by "Holy Spirit ministry." I am not familiar with that term other than the obvious fact that as a believer I have the Holy Spirit within me ministering to me. I suspect though you have something more specific in mind.

There are people who are experienced in praying with others, listening to Gods leading, and allowing Him to minister to the person. I have had this myself and know many others who have also. God will often bring things up that need dealing with, and will also often speak and pin point what needs doing. The Holy Spirit can do amazing things when given the opportunity and space to heal and set free and restore.
For example He may bring up a specific person who you need to forgive, or a specific event that He wants to heal. It can take many ministry appointments if you have a lot that needs dealing with. 

: chosenone  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 17:23:36

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 16:58:26

: chosenone  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 15:46:23

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 10:50:42
None of the above. I get burned out on counseling anyways. It's going to have to happen on my own.

Have you ever had Holy Spirit ministry as opposed to normal counselling? Its only the Holy spirit who can heal us inside, no amount of counselling can do that.

You will have to define/describe what you mean by "Holy Spirit ministry." I am not familiar with that term other than the obvious fact that as a believer I have the Holy Spirit within me ministering to me. I suspect though you have something more specific in mind.

There are people who are experienced in praying with others, listening to Gods leading, and allowing Him to minister to the person. I have had this myself and know many others who have also. God will often bring things up that need dealing with, and will also often speak and pin point what needs doing. The Holy Spirit can do amazing things when given the opportunity and space to heal and set free and restore.
For example He may bring up a specific person who you need to forgive, or a specific event that He wants to heal. It can take many ministry appointments if you have a lot that needs dealing with.

I'm guessing this is something found in more charismatic circles? I have never heard of anyone around here with such a ministry approach. I don't mean that in a negative way. Just saying I'm not familiar with it.

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 19:25:36
I'm guessing this is something found in more charismatic circles? I have never heard of anyone around here with such a ministry approach. I don't mean that in a negative way. Just saying I'm not familiar with it.

Theophostic and Elijah House style counseling (and a few others) are charismatic in nature. I would not go to a counselor who does not have (and use) the charismatic gifts of word of knowledge and word of wisdom. (see 1 Cor 12)   The reason is they can hear straight from the Holy Spirit what you do not choose to tell or perhaps have even forgotten. It is therefore much more efficient in getting to the crux of the matter.

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 19:25:36

: chosenone  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 17:23:36

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 16:58:26

: chosenone  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 15:46:23

: ohcalidatex  Wed Feb 26, 2014 - 10:50:42
None of the above. I get burned out on counseling anyways. It's going to have to happen on my own.

Have you ever had Holy Spirit ministry as opposed to normal counselling? Its only the Holy spirit who can heal us inside, no amount of counselling can do that.

You will have to define/describe what you mean by "Holy Spirit ministry." I am not familiar with that term other than the obvious fact that as a believer I have the Holy Spirit within me ministering to me. I suspect though you have something more specific in mind.

There are people who are experienced in praying with others, listening to Gods leading, and allowing Him to minister to the person. I have had this myself and know many others who have also. God will often bring things up that need dealing with, and will also often speak and pin point what needs doing. The Holy Spirit can do amazing things when given the opportunity and space to heal and set free and restore.
For example He may bring up a specific person who you need to forgive, or a specific event that He wants to heal. It can take many ministry appointments if you have a lot that needs dealing with.

I'm guessing this is something found in more charismatic circles? I have never heard of anyone around here with such a ministry approach. I don't mean that in a negative way. Just saying I'm not familiar with it.

Yes  and as Dave says, the gifts of the spirit need to be used by those who are praying, so that God can speak. He can get to the root of the problem and heal in a minute, while counselling can take years (if it ever really does). God has used my husband in this way with me a few times now, when he got a Bible verse or a word of knowledge that hit the nail on the head immediately.

PRMI (charismatic Presbyterians) also have a style they call "listening intercession." It is similar to their "listening evangelism" in that they listen very intently to the Holy Spirit for what to pray about and what to say.

God can and does work thru all of these style of counseling. The key is the  counselor needs to listen to the holy spirit.

=======================

In our congregation we have a woman who is a board certified psychiatrist. She used to work at an institutional psychiatric hospital.  A few years ago a woman there tried to commit suicide by slashing her wrists with a razor blade.  Once she was stabilized, (both physically and mentally) the staff of doctors all interviewed her.  They took turns asking her questions.  When it came to my friend, she asked only one question: "Where did you hide the other razor blade?"  The woman was so shocked she just blurted out "under my mattress."

There was nothing in any of the previous answers to indicate she was still suicidal or had a back up plan of any kind. It freaked out the other doctors more than the patient. My friend now has her own private practice.

That is an example of how gifts of wisdom and knowledge can get to the heart of the issues.

: DaveW  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 06:40:46
PRMI (charismatic Presbyterians) also have a style they call "listening intercession." It is similar to their "listening evangelism" in that they listen very intently to the Holy Spirit for what to pray about and what to say.

God can and does work thru all of these style of counseling. The key is the  counselor needs to listen to the holy spirit.

=======================

In our congregation we have a woman who is a board certified psychiatrist. She used to work at an institutional psychiatric hospital.  A few years ago a woman there tried to commit suicide by slashing her wrists with a razor blade.  Once she was stabilized, (both physically and mentally) the staff of doctors all interviewed her.  They took turns asking her questions.  When it came to my friend, she asked only one question: "Where did you hide the other razor blade?"  The woman was so shocked she just blurted out "under my mattress."

There was nothing in any of the previous answers to indicate she was still suicidal or had a back up plan of any kind. It freaked out the other doctors more than the patient. My friend now has her own private practice.

That is an example of how gifts of wisdom and knowledge can get to the heart of the issues.

I'm not sure I need more counseling though. I am just an introvert who does not desire enough ongoing contact with one person to make a relationship work. Nothing wrong with that. I think I've caused myself more grief by thinking there is something wrong and trying to fix it rather than accepting who I am and being happy with that.

: chosenone  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 10:28:50

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:44:39

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:41:28

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

No comment on the scriptures I quoted?

I have already commented on them a few posts back.

You only addressed one of those passages.

: Cally  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 15:27:51

: chosenone  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 10:28:50

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:44:39

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:41:28

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

No comment on the scriptures I quoted?

I have already commented on them a few posts back.

You only addressed one of those passages.

No both. AS I said before, Jesus never mentioned marriage in that passage and His meaning is clear. Faith in Him can and does bring problems and separation in families. We are to be prepared to put Him first, even if that means our own families don't like it and reject us. Some even lose their families because of their faith. However God gives clear instructions of what the tasks and responsibilities are toward spouses, children and other family members, especially those in need. After Him they are always our first responsibility and ministry. That's presumably why Paul says what he does about being single, that those with out spouses and children have more time (and money) to spend on others who are in need. For those who are married that responsibility is always to our own family first.

Jesus has billions of brothers and sisters, because Jesus is the first born of all Gods children.

Marriage is a special and unique relationship that can never be replicated by any other relationship, because it is a covenant and the joining together of two people into one union. That's why satan hates marriage and does all he can it minimise its importance, demean it, distort it, and destroy it.
He sometimes even uses so called 'church work' and so called 'Gods work' to come between a husband and wife. 

: chosenone  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 16:45:10

: Cally  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 15:27:51

: chosenone  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 10:28:50

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:44:39

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:41:28

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

No comment on the scriptures I quoted?

I have already commented on them a few posts back.

You only addressed one of those passages.

No both. AS I said before, Jesus never mentioned marriage in that passage and His meaning is clear. Faith in Him can and does bring problems and separation in families. We are to be prepared to put Him first, even if that means our own families don't like it and reject us. Some even lose their families because of their faith. However God gives clear instructions of what the tasks and responsibilities are toward spouses, children and other family members, especially those in need. After Him they are always our first responsibility and ministry. That's presumably why Paul says what he does about being single, that those with out spouses and children have more time (and money) to spend on others who are in need. For those who are married that responsibility is always to our own family first.

Jesus has billions of brothers and sisters, because Jesus is the first born of all Gods children.

Marriage is a special and unique relationship that can never be replicated by any other relationship, because it is a covenant and the joining together of two people into one union. That's why satan hates marriage and does all he can it minimise its importance, demean it, distort it, and destroy it.
He sometimes even uses so called 'church work' and so called 'Gods work' to come between a husband and wife. 

chosenone, my original point (and the point of the Bible's message) is not to "minimize" marriage but just point out that it's not there to meet every relationship need a person has. I think people look to marriages oftentimes to fulfill needs that the Body of Christ is supposed to meet--I think it's clear there's danger in that.

: Faithful  Sat Feb 15, 2014 - 09:50:25
A friend asked me this question the other day, 'What is wrong with me?'   By that, she was saying she's 37 and not married.
It's an interesting question because I think our culture (and churches) do put a negative value on people of a certain age who are not married.   Men over 40 are labelled as either 'gay' or 'commitment phobes' and women can be labelled, as thoguh they are needy, whiny or there is fundamentally something wrong with them.

I really, really dislike that!  I'm 39 and haven't been married....and I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with me.  My non-married state is probably down to a few different things, but in my 20s, I had a huge job that involved regular international travel and so I didn't really settle down or get involved in a church.  I didn't have much of a social life either - just seemed to always be on a plane.   When I was 32, I finally met a man I thought I could spend the rest of my life with.   By the age of 37, it was over - when I discovered that despite us committing to not sleeping together, he was doing some terrible things behind my back.   For a while, life as I knew it literally fell apart.

So here I am today, 39, no immediate signs of a husband on the horizon, but I'm getting on cheerfyully with life.  I have friends, a house, a great job, car, some available income, a wonderful church....but not yet met that guy.

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

Not trying to point fingers, but maybe I am, I have to think about one of Paul's letters that talks about that.  There is nothing wrong with being single in the world, in fact it is probably holier to abstain from companionship.  However, God knows our attraction to the flesh so he has allowed us to marry one another.  And it is not just the pressures of the church, it is society also.  I think it should be commended and celebrated instead of judged and gossiped about.

: Cally  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 17:12:13

: chosenone  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 16:45:10

: Cally  Thu Feb 27, 2014 - 15:27:51

: chosenone  Mon Feb 24, 2014 - 10:28:50

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:44:39

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:41:28

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 17:36:20

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 13:26:28


He said nothing about marriage there. The marriage relationship is unique in that it is a covenant relationship, unlike any other relationships we may have. The two people become one in a spiritual sense.
There are many instructions in the Bible about how we are to be as husband and wives, and also parents. There are also instructions about how we are to care for and provide for other family members.

Jesus was then speaking about God coming first, so that we may be treated badly and maybe even excluded from our families because of our faith.

The two people become one flesh. (Mark 10:8) I see nothing about marriage being a spiritual joining.

What are your comments/beliefs on these scriptures, if you believe that fleshly family comes before the family of God?

Mark 10:29-30
"Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.

Matthew 12:46
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


And let's not argue about nothing. Of course I know what actually IS written regarding marriages.

Marriage is a covenant that God ordained, so how can it not be spiritual? Sex is far more than the physical joining.

The church family is important, but our first ministry and responsibility after God is to our spouses and children. 

No comment on the scriptures I quoted?

I have already commented on them a few posts back.

You only addressed one of those passages.

No both. AS I said before, Jesus never mentioned marriage in that passage and His meaning is clear. Faith in Him can and does bring problems and separation in families. We are to be prepared to put Him first, even if that means our own families don't like it and reject us. Some even lose their families because of their faith. However God gives clear instructions of what the tasks and responsibilities are toward spouses, children and other family members, especially those in need. After Him they are always our first responsibility and ministry. That's presumably why Paul says what he does about being single, that those with out spouses and children have more time (and money) to spend on others who are in need. For those who are married that responsibility is always to our own family first.

Jesus has billions of brothers and sisters, because Jesus is the first born of all Gods children.

Marriage is a special and unique relationship that can never be replicated by any other relationship, because it is a covenant and the joining together of two people into one union. That's why satan hates marriage and does all he can it minimise its importance, demean it, distort it, and destroy it.
He sometimes even uses so called 'church work' and so called 'Gods work' to come between a husband and wife. 

chosenone, my original point (and the point of the Bible's message) is not to "minimize" marriage but just point out that it's not there to meet every relationship need a person has. I think people look to marriages oftentimes to fulfill needs that the Body of Christ is supposed to meet--I think it's clear there's danger in that.

I think that marriage must always come first however, before any other relationship whether that be wider family, friends or church family.
I have some close female friends, but my husband is always first.

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

..........and yet marriage is the bedrock of society. Every time the institution of marriage begins to crumble and weaken in any society(as it is now), that society weakens, morals plummet and things can fall apart. 
I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first. As you say its also important that we have the wider family and Christian friends as well.
I know too many couples whose only life was really each other, and when one dies or they divorce, the other is completely lost because they had little life outside their own marriage.

I agree...Vote Republican.  ::pray::

Only kidding.  To be serious though, I am sickened of how quickly society is self-destructing.  And I feel what has been causing all of this is not only pushing Christianity into hiding, but all religions into hiding.  I am not an advocate or supporter of other world religions, but it is somehow a glue that hold society together.  But the problem is that a Pagan society is slowly replacing our country and non-believers don't even recognize what is going on because things are so "cool" now.  I can remember when I was a kid, in my neck of the woods, you were either Christian or a person who makes up excuses of why they don't go to church.  Now in my 40s religion is just stomped on and ridiculed.

I feel bad for the Christian women that feel they have to marry into a secular lifestyle.  But, I am guy I'm not gonna act like I understand.  I just feel for them.

: BlueYetti  Mon Jun 09, 2014 - 04:12:14

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

..........and yet marriage is the bedrock of society. Every time the institution of marriage begins to crumble and weaken in any society(as it is now), that society weakens, morals plummet and things can fall apart. 
I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first. As you say its also important that we have the wider family and Christian friends as well.
I know too many couples whose only life was really each other, and when one dies or they divorce, the other is completely lost because they had little life outside their own marriage.

I agree...Vote Republican.  ::pray::

Only kidding.  To be serious though, I am sickened of how quickly society is self-destructing.  And I feel what has been causing all of this is not only pushing Christianity into hiding, but all religions into hiding.  I am not an advocate or supporter of other world religions, but it is somehow a glue that hold society together.  But the problem is that a Pagan society is slowly replacing our country and non-believers don't even recognize what is going on because things are so "cool" now.  I can remember when I was a kid, in my neck of the woods, you were either Christian or a person who makes up excuses of why they don't go to church.  Now in my 40s religion is just stomped on and ridiculed.

I feel bad for the Christian women that feel they have to marry into a secular lifestyle.  But, I am guy I'm not gonna act like I understand.  I just feel for them.

Why do Christian women have to marry into a secular life style? Do you mean marry a non believer? If so, surely they have a choice?

: chosenone  Mon Jun 09, 2014 - 04:38:09

: BlueYetti  Mon Jun 09, 2014 - 04:12:14

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

..........and yet marriage is the bedrock of society. Every time the institution of marriage begins to crumble and weaken in any society(as it is now), that society weakens, morals plummet and things can fall apart. 
I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first. As you say its also important that we have the wider family and Christian friends as well.
I know too many couples whose only life was really each other, and when one dies or they divorce, the other is completely lost because they had little life outside their own marriage.

I agree...Vote Republican.  ::pray::

Only kidding.  To be serious though, I am sickened of how quickly society is self-destructing.  And I feel what has been causing all of this is not only pushing Christianity into hiding, but all religions into hiding.  I am not an advocate or supporter of other world religions, but it is somehow a glue that hold society together.  But the problem is that a Pagan society is slowly replacing our country and non-believers don't even recognize what is going on because things are so "cool" now.  I can remember when I was a kid, in my neck of the woods, you were either Christian or a person who makes up excuses of why they don't go to church.  Now in my 40s religion is just stomped on and ridiculed.

I feel bad for the Christian women that feel they have to marry into a secular lifestyle.  But, I am guy I'm not gonna act like I understand.  I just feel for them.

Why do Christian women have to marry into a secular life style? Do you mean marry a non believer? If so, surely they have a choice?

No disrespect intended.  I have been reading some of the singles threads and there is a lot talk about the women to men ratio(4 to 1) in church.  And there has been a lot of talk about women marrying outside of the church for this reason.  I will be more careful in future posts.

: BlueYetti  Mon Jun 09, 2014 - 05:08:16

: chosenone  Mon Jun 09, 2014 - 04:38:09

: BlueYetti  Mon Jun 09, 2014 - 04:12:14

: chosenone  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:51:47

: Cally  Sun Feb 23, 2014 - 10:23:35

I said to my friend that sometimes it's just circumstances - that's the way things work out.   But I am wondering, how can we fight against this negative attitude in churches, that there is something 'wrong' with people over a certain age who are not married?

I don't know if I smell a negative attitude toward singles in churches, but there is definitely an over-spiritualization of marriage in churches. Marriage is an earthly position in which there are wonderful things to do, and many ways to glorify God as a husband or wife. But, it is an entirely fleshly state--it only lasts this lifetime, as there is no marriage in heaven.

1 Corinthians 7:29
What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;

The point being that a spouse (husband or wife to be clear) is an Earthly "possession" of sorts that is fleeting just like any other. Churches should be emphasizing the spiritual family more (Mark 10:30), but instead tend to talk about marriage as if it's THE be-all-end-all of relationships.

Frankly I think that's the biggest problem with western marriages, ironically enough. It's like if I buy a toaster and expect it to cook toast, mow the lawn, and turn the lights on--that's bound to result in dissatisfaction. We need more talk about spiritual family to put marriage in proportion. If you don't have certain relationship needs that are distinctly fulfilled with marriage and marriage only, then spiritual family has everything else that you need.

..........and yet marriage is the bedrock of society. Every time the institution of marriage begins to crumble and weaken in any society(as it is now), that society weakens, morals plummet and things can fall apart. 
I do believe the church family is important, but our own families must come first. As you say its also important that we have the wider family and Christian friends as well.
I know too many couples whose only life was really each other, and when one dies or they divorce, the other is completely lost because they had little life outside their own marriage.

I agree...Vote Republican.  ::pray::

Only kidding.  To be serious though, I am sickened of how quickly society is self-destructing.  And I feel what has been causing all of this is not only pushing Christianity into hiding, but all religions into hiding.  I am not an advocate or supporter of other world religions, but it is somehow a glue that hold society together.  But the problem is that a Pagan society is slowly replacing our country and non-believers don't even recognize what is going on because things are so "cool" now.  I can remember when I was a kid, in my neck of the woods, you were either Christian or a person who makes up excuses of why they don't go to church.  Now in my 40s religion is just stomped on and ridiculed.

I feel bad for the Christian women that feel they have to marry into a secular lifestyle.  But, I am guy I'm not gonna act like I understand.  I just feel for them.

Why do Christian women have to marry into a secular life style? Do you mean marry a non believer? If so, surely they have a choice?

No disrespect intended.  I have been reading some of the singles threads and there is a lot talk about the women to men ratio(4 to 1) in church.  And there has been a lot of talk about women marrying outside of the church for this reason.  I will be more careful in future posts.

Dont worry, I just wasnt sure what you meant. Yes it is a problem for women especially as they get older. When I was single again in my 40's it was impossible to meet a single guy of around that age in church, (there werent any!) which is why I went onto a Christian relationship site.  There were about 3 or 4 women to each man on there in that age range, and that got worse in the older age ranges.
Some women do marry non believers but it isn't what God wants, but maybe they think its that or nothing. I wasnt going to get involved with a non believer, as I knew that was second best, but I can see why some get fed up waiting and take the matter into their own hands.

I've enjoyed reading this thread. I'm in an unusual situation myself. I'm never married and here I am 52 years old wondering if I should even bother. I think I'm more or less a normal man. I know the stereotypes are that an older never married man is gay, or he is a playboy, or he lived most of his life in his parents' basement, playing video games. I know there are ugly stereotypes for older single women.

I grew up rather introverted. A geek in a sense - my idea of fun even as a child was to read a science or history book. There was an art museum and a science museum and I liked to visit both. I was bored and frustrated with high school. By the time I was a young adult, I was pretty much a loner. My family background was such that I grew up listening to Classical music and Jazz - sometimes I felt like I was born in the wrong century. There wasn't any "scene" I fit into well. My parents weren't happy togther so there was always drama and tension at home.

Anyway, I worked my way through college, I had a series of not so great jobs but have had a good career for the past 15 years. While many men my age were raising a family I was occupied with building a career and I also spent a lot of time helping to take care of my elderly parents. My sister and I took turns helping to take care of a parent with Alzheimer's - we both had work on top of that. So the "best" years of my life were spent with long hours at work plus being a part-time caretaker. I admit I went for years burned out and I had gotten a rather negative view of life.

I am at a more tranquil part of my life now. I have had a few relationships over the years - not many but at least they weren't train wrecks. I have avoided sources of drama such as addictions. My idea of a fun Saturday includes taking a 10 mile hike - it does not include being glued to the TV for some game. I tried some "Christian" dating sites and I had dialog with some women. I am Protestant but go to a church that has a very formal liturgy. A lot of the women I had dialog with didn't like that. It would seem that going to a liturgical church service is only something the "unsaved" do. Sigh. I don't go around judging people from other traditions but there are of course some churches where I fit in better than others - that doesn't mean people who are different from me aren't saved. I really feel like giving up, lol. What do you do if you don't fit in well culturally and other ways? I guess I am mildly eccentric but not in any creepy or unhealthy or immoral ways. I'm far, far from perfect. Sorry I wrote too much.

: INTJer  Thu Aug 07, 2014 - 11:01:14
I've enjoyed reading this thread. I'm in an unusual situation myself. I'm never married and here I am 52 years old wondering if I should even bother. I think I'm more or less a normal man. I know the stereotypes are that an older never married man is gay, or he is a playboy, or he lived most of his life in his parents' basement, playing video games. I know there are ugly stereotypes for older single women.

I grew up rather introverted. A geek in a sense - my idea of fun even as a child was to read a science or history book. There was an art museum and a science museum and I liked to visit both. I was bored and frustrated with high school. By the time I was a young adult, I was pretty much a loner. My family background was such that I grew up listening to Classical music and Jazz - sometimes I felt like I was born in the wrong century. There wasn't any "scene" I fit into well. My parents weren't happy togther so there was always drama and tension at home.

Anyway, I worked my way through college, I had a series of not so great jobs but have had a good career for the past 15 years. While many men my age were raising a family I was occupied with building a career and I also spent a lot of time helping to take care of my elderly parents. My sister and I took turns helping to take care of a parent with Alzheimer's - we both had work on top of that. So the "best" years of my life were spent with long hours at work plus being a part-time caretaker. I admit I went for years burned out and I had gotten a rather negative view of life.

I am at a more tranquil part of my life now. I have had a few relationships over the years - not many but at least they weren't train wrecks. I have avoided sources of drama such as addictions. My idea of a fun Saturday includes taking a 10 mile hike - it does not include being glued to the TV for some game. I tried some "Christian" dating sites and I had dialog with some women. I am Protestant but go to a church that has a very formal liturgy. A lot of the women I had dialog with didn't like that. It would seem that going to a liturgical church service is only something the "unsaved" do. Sigh. I don't go around judging people from other traditions but there are of course some churches where I fit in better than others - that doesn't mean people who are different from me aren't saved. I really feel like giving up, lol. What do you do if you don't fit in well culturally and other ways? I guess I am mildly eccentric but not in any creepy or unhealthy or immoral ways. I'm far, far from perfect. Sorry I wrote too much.

Well if you are content the way you are then thats good isnt it? I think that you may find it hard to marry after all this time of being single, having to think of another and maybe children as well if she has them, after only having to think of what you want all these years may be quite challenging. 

Must admit having been bought up in that very formal 'high' church setting, I wouldnt want to go back to it, so I can sort of understand why some people wouldn't want that. I do think that we need to be with someone who is on the same wavelength spiritually, so that both feel at home in the same sort of church. 

I am a male in my mid 50s, never married and in about the same position as another poster.  In my 20s I was very busy starting a career.  In my early 30s I had a problem involving chronic pain that made it very hard to do anything other than just keep my income and career going.  I dealt with that problem for years, after it was corrected with surgery my company released a new product, this required me to work up to 70 hours a week.  I have always had one of those jobs where if they hire you they often need you for 60+ hours a week or they don't need you at all.
By the time things seemed to settle down I was in my early-mid 40s,  I decided that was it, quite happy with the way things were I would just stay single.

It seems that some in the Church (usually not the Church by policy) don't always have a good way of dealing with us, as if there was something wrong.  I have noticed the situation where there seems to be more single women in the singles groups and pastors pushing the single guys to "get involved".
I had a friend who goes to a mega-church where everything is broadcast, placed on DVDs etc direct me to a multi-part series about "the gift of being single".  I wasn't impressed with that pastor so I wasn't inclined to listen to much of it but this was mostly suggesting single folks should be making some herculean effort in other Church related activities or making lots of money so they could give it to his church, a church that has a very large overhead and does almost nothing in the mission field. (to be fair they believe just having a large church in a large suburban area is their mission).  When the reasons one should not be single all boiled down to selfishness I was done listening to that presentation.

I've also decided not to date.  Some single people are so desperate they will accept things like "friendship dates" hoping something else will develop later down the line.  Then there is the problem with well intentioned but poorly skilled folks who somehow think they are match-makers.  The hardest part about that is I feel I am rejecting people when they try to pull this.  I usually feel bad about saying no, especially to fellow Christians.  At the end of the day that's it, they are going to get softly and kindly rejected.
The idea that maybe I came from a dysfunctional family environment and have a negative view of family, that folks suspect one may be "gay", that somebody's selfish and other suspicions do bother me but there is nothing I can do about it.  Even getting a little defensive in a society where many think they are amateur psychologists is a really bad idea so it's best to just shake my head or say no and smile.  I only give a "life story" and answer a string of questions to the people that are really close friends. 

I suppose their thought is that if you are single and childless you have far more spare time for other things, which is true. Also you only have to support yourself and have had more time to build up your career, so you probably do generally have more spare money for yourself. You dont need to have a big place to live so that is also cheaper than needing a larger house for a family, so I can see where they are coming  from. The few people I know who have never been married in the church have generally been called into some sort of ministry, which maybe why they weren't to marry.
There are also many more single women in the church than single men, so you can also sort of understand why they are encouraging the few single men to get involved. I feel for these ladies who are doomed to never marry because of the shortage of men. 

If you have no intention of ever dating or marrying, you just need to be honest and say so, rather than leaving people in the dark.

About the statement in the post -
"If you have no intention of ever dating or marrying, you just need to be honest and say so, rather than leaving people in the dark. "
--

If that was to me, I don't leave folks in the dark, I tell them I'm a confirmed batchelor as soon as any issue involving that comes up.
There can be negative people in the churches at times, also lots of gossip etc.  Often it's best to hold back on the details except for closer friends.

The presentation from the mega-church pastor was very poor, some of us are more conservative and not at all impressed with the "Motivational Speaker" type of presentations where little scripture is used and when it is it's always out of context.  I was surprised that none of the conditions and situations applied to me, my friend should have known this but supposedly directed me to the presentation after listening to it.
Also I'm not at all convinced that giving money to churches with food courts and bowling alleys, sending kids to youth conferences where they drop Mentos in soda, listen to "Christian punk-rock" or "Christian heavy metal" and other such activities is giving to God in any way shape or form.

I do give, but the whole issue with money and accumulating wealth is much harder these days.  My father had an old style pension that would provide him money until he died.  Many of us these days have self-directed plans.  Having studied financial planning (really being taught as I don't teach it) there are some hard issues to face
- If the market crashes as in a depression or collapse do I have enough money? - Probably not
- If I need long-term care in a couple of decades do I have enough money? -  Probably not
- Because of previous health problems and family history I should be more conservative
- I actually have no idea if I'm a hundreds of thousands underfunded or over-funded after lots of study.

Being confirmed by a more conservative assembly I would never have even considered dating a divorced woman, I understand the problems in society, all I can do is be thankful that there is none of that in my family, that is parents, siblings and their children.  I'm still not sure about the remarriage/divorce issue, I have no problem with those who have made these mistakes working things out finding each other and I'm sort of softening up on that view.  I never bring it up in fellowship because so many are on 2nd and 3rd marriages etc.
In one assembly where I didn't join the pastor was sort of pushy about it in the sermons, at least once sort of throwing down a guilt trip, I didn't feel that was correct.
I do feel bad for folks who are in a bad situation for whatever reason.

: R-Simon  Fri Aug 08, 2014 - 16:06:59
About the statement in the post -
"If you have no intention of ever dating or marrying, you just need to be honest and say so, rather than leaving people in the dark. "
--

If that was to me, I don't leave folks in the dark, I tell them I'm a confirmed batchelor as soon as any issue involving that comes up.
There can be negative people in the churches at times, also lots of gossip etc.  Often it's best to hold back on the details except for closer friends.

The presentation from the mega-church pastor was very poor, some of us are more conservative and not at all impressed with the "Motivational Speaker" type of presentations where little scripture is used and when it is it's always out of context.  I was surprised that none of the conditions and situations applied to me, my friend should have known this but supposedly directed me to the presentation after listening to it.
Also I'm not at all convinced that giving money to churches with food courts and bowling alleys, sending kids to youth conferences where they drop Mentos in soda, listen to "Christian punk-rock" or "Christian heavy metal" and other such activities is giving to God in any way shape or form.

I do give, but the whole issue with money and accumulating wealth is much harder these days.  My father had an old style pension that would provide him money until he died.  Many of us these days have self-directed plans.  Having studied financial planning (really being taught as I don't teach it) there are some hard issues to face
- If the market crashes as in a depression or collapse do I have enough money? - Probably not
- If I need long-term care in a couple of decades do I have enough money? -  Probably not
- Because of previous health problems and family history I should be more conservative
- I actually have no idea if I'm a hundreds of thousands underfunded or over-funded after lots of study.

Being confirmed by a more conservative assembly I would never have even considered dating a divorced woman, I understand the problems in society, all I can do is be thankful that there is none of that in my family, that is parents, siblings and their children.  I'm still not sure about the remarriage/divorce issue, I have no problem with those who have made these mistakes working things out finding each other and I'm sort of softening up on that view.  I never bring it up in fellowship because so many are on 2nd and 3rd marriages etc.
In one assembly where I didn't join the pastor was sort of pushy about it in the sermons, at least even once sort of throwing down a guilt trip, I didn't feel that was correct.
I do feel bad for folks who are in a bad situation for whatever reason.

Presumably you would give money to the churches and ministries you liked, which would be ones that you thought were spending money wisely and for good purposes. I dont know any churches here in the UK that have or do any of the things you mentioned. I am sure there are some there but many who are far wiser with their spending. There are also many good ministries who we can support. 

I dont worry about money and savings much. We have little financially, but God says that if we give we will reap, and also he says that He will always provide for all our needs, so why worry?I would love to be able to give more, as I love giving. Cant believe you are talking about 100's of thousands of dollars. I dont know anyone who has that sort of money or anywhere near it. If we need money when we are older then God will need to provide it because we havent got it. Its actually good that we need to depend on God for our needs, because it really stretches our faith. Its easy to 'trust' God when we have lots of money in savings.     

I have no problems with divorced people being married again depending on their circumstances.  In fact both my husband and I both had previous long marriages that ended because of Biblically allowed reasons. He is the best husband ever. We married in our late 40's after meeting on line, and have been happily married nearly 9 years now.

If you are happy being single, then maybe thats what God has called you to be and maybe thats for a specific reason. As I said you can give more time and money that a married person, as you only have yourself to look after. Your options are wider in many ways for you to work for God.

I would imagine things are different in the UK than in the States.  Social security pays less if one contributes less, it isn't a charity program and no, just because one worked hard making less doesn't mean one has "earned it".

In many communities Social security would pay about as much per month as renting an apartment.  That's without considering food, medical co-payments, dental etc.  Those who are stuck with only Social Security and no savings can move in with relatives or perhaps rent a room, they can try to apply for low-income or assisted housing but that's hard to get.

Here is why it's hard to calculate, my father had a pension that paid about 60,000 (I don't need that much).  One reason he had that was because of shared risk, some folks die 1 year after retirement while others live past age 90.
I don't have that.  If I did want to draw 60,000 a year at age 65 my current adviser tells me I need about 1.2 million USD.  It's possible to live to age 90 and run out of money at age 75, that's why advisers teach a more conservative approach.   Long term assisted care or the possibility of needing such makes things even more complicated.
The value of my father's pension was transparent, he didn't actually have the money and couldn't see the actual value, when he died there was no residual value left to the estate, it went to others who lived longer.  I am not in that system, I can see the value of my accounts every day if I wish to check.

I do understand the points about remarriage, but please understand that some of us were confirmed in very conservative assemblies that taught in effect "no remarriage after divorce" and either took this seriously or had a "better safe than sorry" approach.
I you wish to learn about some of the unusual practices in US mega-churches that can be web searched and even seen on YouTube videos.  Some of the criticism goes too far in the other direction but that should be obvious.

: R-Simon  Fri Aug 08, 2014 - 18:26:05
I would imagine things are different in the UK than in the States.  Social security pays less if one contributes less, it isn't a charity program and no, just because one worked hard making less doesn't mean one has "earned it".

In many communities Social security would pay about as much per month as renting an apartment.  That's without considering food, medical co-payments, dental etc.  Those who are stuck with only Social Security and no savings can move in with relatives or perhaps rent a room, they can try to apply for low-income or assisted housing but that's hard to get.

Here is why it's hard to calculate, my father had a pension that paid about 60,000 (I don't need that much).  One reason he had that was because of shared risk, some folks die 1 year after retirement while others live past age 90.
I don't have that.  If I did want to draw 60,000 a year at age 65 my current adviser tells me I need about 1.2 million USD.  It's possible to live to age 90 and run out of money at age 75, that's why advisers teach a more conservative approach.   Long term assisted care or the possibility of needing such makes things even more complicated.
The value of my father's pension was transparent, he didn't actually have the money and couldn't see the actual value, when he died there was no residual value left to the estate, it went to others who lived longer.  I am not in that system, I can see the value of my accounts every day if I wish to check.

I do understand the points about remarriage, but please understand that some of us were confirmed in very conservative assemblies that taught in effect "no remarriage after divorce" and either took this seriously or had a "better safe than sorry" approach.
I you wish to learn about some of the unusual practice is US mega-churches that can be web searched and even seen on YouTube videos.  Some of the criticism goes too far in the other direction but that should be obvious.

You are very blessed to have that sort of money. I suppose that's one advantage of being single. However we will need to rely on God because we dont. If we need residential care when we are old, we have to sell our homes to pay for it. Its only when we get down to £23,000 that the govt will pay. Not much to leave our kids is it. You would probably be shocked at how little we have, but honestly we don't worry because God has made promises.

When it comes to matters such as divorce and remarriage, I believe that we each need to study the subject for ourselves and not believe everything that some churches or preachers say. I studied it for some time, and it made me understand what God is saying and it was very helpful.  I was bought up in a very traditional high church like yours, but I didnt believe all they taught. I left as soon as soon as I could as well, and now attend more informal type churches. 

We have a tiny number of the larger churches in the UK, and they are doing amazing work, especially attracting large numbers of young people who are becoming believers, and I love that.  They also do a lot of work in their communities.

I agree that unwinding from learned Church doctrine and teaching can take quite a while, especially for those who took early Christian instruction seriously.  Often the passage Matthew 5:32 "and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." was taken to be a commandment for the Church.
Jesus lived his life as an Old Testament Jew under the Torah; the temple was in place and the sacrifices were being made.  He verifies this in passages like Matthew 23 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:  All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."  After the glorification of Christ we will hear nothing more of listening to the authority of those in the Temple system.
Many of us were taught that everything in the Gospels like the Sermon on the Mount was in effect a string of commandments for the Church.  We had to relearn and unwind, throwing out opinions of instructors we probably respected and thought much of.

I think you're still not getting the idea that having a modern retirement plan where the money is held by the individual vs a classic retirement plan has nothing to do with being single.  Professional couples where both have a better job than I often have 2-5 times as much as I hold and I know folks like that.

Suppose for example a couple in the UK each had the British version of Social Security and one had a very small pension adding up to £18,000 a year.  Right now interest rates on bank notes, high quality bonds, dividends by quality stocks etc are fairly low.  If I wanted to set up a retirement account with such instruments that paid this much and included a provision for inflation, a fund that would pay either party without failure even if one lived to age 97 the value would probably be well over £300,000.
The couple doesn't actually hold the money but they are getting the value of it.  The payments were promised and funded on behalf of the retiree; the money doesn't magically come from God.  God does provide from his position outside time and in eternity, knowing the beginning from the end.  That doesn't mean retirement accounts are coming from God because somebody paid a tithe to a prosperity preacher.

As for those of us who chose to remain single for various reasons including a chain of circumstances I guess we'll just have to put up with various prejudice and misconceptions. 

: R-Simon  Sat Aug 09, 2014 - 10:47:17
I agree that unwinding from learned Church doctrine and teaching can take quite a while, especially for those who took early Christian instruction seriously.  Often the passage Matthew 5:32 "and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." was taken to be a commandment for the Church.
Jesus lived his life as an Old Testament Jew under the Torah; the temple was in place and the sacrifices were being made.  He verifies this in passages like Matthew 23 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:  All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."  After the glorification of Christ we will hear nothing more of listening to the authority of those in the Temple system.
Many of us were taught that everything in the Gospels like the Sermon on the Mount was in effect a string of commandments for the Church.  We had to relearn and unwind, throwing out opinions of instructors we probably respected and thought much of.

I think you're still not getting the idea that having a modern retirement plan where the money is held by the individual vs a classic retirement plan has nothing to do with being single.  Professional couples where both have a better job than I often have 2-5 times as much as I hold and I know folks like that.

Suppose for example a couple in the UK each had the British version of Social Security and one had a very small pension adding up to £18,000 a year.  Right now interest rates on bank notes, high quality bonds, dividends by quality stocks etc are fairly low.  If I wanted to set up a retirement account with such instruments that paid this much and included a provision for inflation, a fund that would pay either party without failure even if one lived to age 97 the value would probably be well over £300,000.
The couple doesn't actually hold the money but they are getting the value of it.  The payments were promised and funded on behalf of the retiree; the money doesn't magically come from God.  God does provide from his position outside time and in eternity, knowing the beginning from the end.  That doesn't mean retirement accounts are coming from God because somebody paid a tithe to a prosperity preacher.

As for those of use who chose to remain single for various reasons including a chain of circumstances I guess we'll just have to put up with various prejudice and misconceptions. 

I cant say I have heard any sort of prejudice against single people. I know quite a few singles in their 30's-50's who would love to marry(men and women) but I cant say any of them have said they encounter prejudice. I think its accepted in the church, especially for women, that there will be singles, because there simply arent enough partners to go round. At one time in my church I was the only divorced person and the only single mum, and that was pretty hard in a church that was 90% families, but I didnt encounter prejudice. Maybe the British are too polite to say anything. lol . Now we have several divorced people.

re pensions. DH lost a lot of his small pension when one of the insurance companies here went bad. He also gave his ex wife the house. Thats the sort of guy he is.
My retirement fund, which was with my former husbands work pension, went with the divorce. My solicitor wasnt happy that I wasnt going after half of it, but my ex said that if I did he would go after half the house(worth about the same as the pension) and being that I had 3 children in a small 3 bed house anyway that wasnt an option. So I have no pension except the govt one which  we have paid for with our national insurance contributions all out working lives, it is small and we dont get it till we are 66.  So yes we are completely dependent on God for our future if Jesus hasnt returned by then.  ::eek::  Honestly we just dont worry about it. Either He means what he says or He doesnt. I also do believe that if we give we receive back from Him. It is biblical.

God Bless

I also agree that it takes time to unlearn things that we have been taught. I spent about 10 years with God, unlearning wrong stuff and I had picked up. SO much had to be knocked down and dismantled so that He could then begin to show me what was really important and true.

I am very careful now which churches I go to, so that I dont pick up more wrong beliefs.     

: chosenone  Sat Aug 09, 2014 - 11:24:19
I cant say I have heard any sort of prejudice against single people. I know quite a few singles in their 30's-50's who would love to marry(men and women) but I cant say any of them have said they encounter prejudice. I think its accepted in the church, especially for women, that there will be singles, because there simply arent enough partners to go round. At one time in my church I was the only divorced person and the only single mum, and that was pretty hard in a church that was 90% families, but I didnt encounter prejudice. Maybe the British are too polite to say anything. lol . Now we have several divorced people.

The prejudice is not overt.  It is more in just not making any allowances for the older singles.  No body has to say anything but when the programs and group activities are all designed for married couples then the older single is just left out.   

: DaveW  Sun Aug 10, 2014 - 09:59:19

: chosenone  Sat Aug 09, 2014 - 11:24:19
I cant say I have heard any sort of prejudice against single people. I know quite a few singles in their 30's-50's who would love to marry(men and women) but I cant say any of them have said they encounter prejudice. I think its accepted in the church, especially for women, that there will be singles, because there simply arent enough partners to go round. At one time in my church I was the only divorced person and the only single mum, and that was pretty hard in a church that was 90% families, but I didnt encounter prejudice. Maybe the British are too polite to say anything. lol . Now we have several divorced people.

The prejudice is not overt.  It is more in just not making any allowances for the older singles.  No body has to say anything but when the programs and group activities are all designed for married couples then the older single is just left out.   

Well that is sort of understandable when there are so few of any particular group. People who are in those small groups sometimes need to organize  something for themselves rather than expect someone else to. One of the men here(sorry I forget which one) did say that people try and get him to go to groups for those in his position, but he doesnt want to because there are far more women. Going to a group doesnt mean you are looking for a date surely,  just that you can spend time with those who get where you are coming from.

When I think of the time I was a divorced single mum, it was hardly going to be worth a church having a group for those in my position because the numbers were so small, and because most of the congregation were nearly all families.  A church a few miles away from me did run a divorce recovery workshop, because although they were smaller than my church at that time, they did happen to have a fair number of people who had sadly had to go through a divorce, so they ran that group themselves for others who had as well.  I am not sure we can belong to a church and expect them to have something for every single group of people, unless you attend one of those 'mega' churches when they do seem to have something for everyone.

I suppose the ideal is that we are all mixed together as a family anyway,  and not separate into different types of groups for different people. Like a normal family there will always be different ages, sexes, and those of different marital status, those with small children,  those with older children, grandparents, singles. widows and widowers, spouses whose other halves dont attend church and so on.

: chosenone  Sun Aug 10, 2014 - 10:38:14
I suppose the ideal is that we are all mixed together as a family anyway,  and not separate into different types of groups for different people. Like a normal family there will always be different ages, sexes, and those of different marital status, those with small children,  those with older children, grandparents, singles. widows and widowers, spouses whose other halves dont attend church and so on.

Someone once said that here in the US the most racially segregated place was church on Sunday morning. 

I submit that it applies to many other areas than just race.  As a white man I should not be going to the black Methodist church walking distance from my house. 

But when you enter the building there are classes for infants, preschoolers; every grade level has a separate class and most have one for college students and another for non-collegians of the same age.  God forbid that they ever get intermixed.

In a normal family these are all together but in church they all are segregated out.

: DaveW  Sun Aug 10, 2014 - 11:01:48

: chosenone  Sun Aug 10, 2014 - 10:38:14
I suppose the ideal is that we are all mixed together as a family anyway,  and not separate into different types of groups for different people. Like a normal family there will always be different ages, sexes, and those of different marital status, those with small children,  those with older children, grandparents, singles. widows and widowers, spouses whose other halves dont attend church and so on.

Someone once said that here in the US the most racially segregated place was church on Sunday morning. 

I submit that it applies to many other areas than just race.  As a white man I should not be going to the black Methodist church walking distance from my house. 

But when you enter the building there are classes for infants, preschoolers; every grade level has a separate class and most have one for college students and another for non-collegians of the same age.  God forbid that they ever get intermixed.

In a normal family these are all together but in church they all are segregated out.

  Yes there does need to be different teaching groups for different age groups because small children need something very different from, say, teenagers, or then again adults. The midweek groups we have are usually pretty mixed as far as age and marital status goes unless there is a men's breakfast or women's evening or whatever, which I also feel can be quite important in their own way.

When it comes to say, a social event such as a BBQ,  that is for whoever wants to go and everyone is included/invited.   We do have quite a mix of nationalities/colours in our church, with British, Africans, Iranians, Indians, South Africans, Australians and probably more I dont know of.  Its not really a very mixed race area unlike where I was bought up, but even so there is a good mix and I like that a lot. 

There are many things in the churches and many different groups in the Church, some may not encounter all of what is out there.
There was one mega-church that was close to work and I had many friends and co-workers attending.
The pastor only mentioned things like "God hates divorce" a few times, every time he did he felt he had to backpedal even to the point of apologizing profusely to his audience.
This same pastor was constantly pushing for guys to get involved in the singles groups and more than once belittled guys who didn't want to get married or remarry.  One can only imagine he was under some sort of pressure to do this but it was never explained.  It even got to the point of blaming guys who don't marry or remarry for the unfortunate situation of women, especially single mothers etc.  The idea was there is always something wrong with the guys.

In every case I know of where people find themselves in poverty or near-poverty situations at retirement after living mostly a middle-class life it's because of divorce; sadly it's almost always the women that get the short end of the stick.  I would suggest this has absolutely nothing to do with people who don't marry and everything to do with divorce.

That's not the reason I didn't join and decided to move on though.  I did that because of things like --
- Preaching the prosperity Gospel
- speculating how big one's checking account in heaven would be if folks tithe {I'm actually understating this one}
- unusual signs and wonders that don't line up with scripture
- fire tunnels {people can web search this or see it on YouTube}
- Christian music where they ask the fire of God to come down
- pastors who claim to have some special anointing nobody else has [as in "the anointing"]
- Strange guest speakers claiming to have a strange anointing that could be passed on by the laying on of hands
- One of the guest speakers yelling "spread like a virus" as he lays hands on folks
- A strange desire to give disgraced pastors a 2nd chance, always somebody who "has the anointing"
- The head pastor claiming to have a strange anointing for money because Oral Roberts told him that.
- Constant name dropping because of relationships and encounters with celebrities.

It actually didn't seem that bad at first, I don't know if they changed over time or it slowly became obvious to me that something was wrong there.

: R-Simon  Mon Aug 11, 2014 - 14:02:47
There are many things in the churches and many different groups in the Church, some may not encounter all of what is out there.
There was one mega-church that was close to work and I had many friends and co-workers attending.
The pastor only mentioned things like "God hates divorce" a few times, every time he did he felt he had to backpedal even to the point of apologizing profusely to his audience.
This same pastor was constantly pushing for guys to get involved in the singles groups and more than once belittled guys who didn't want to get married or remarry.  One can only imagine he was under some sort of pressure to do this but it was never explained.  It even got to the point of blaming guys who don't marry or remarry for the unfortunate situation of women, especially single mothers etc.  The idea was there is always something wrong with the guys.

In every case I know of where people find themselves in poverty or near-poverty situations at retirement after living mostly a middle-class life it's because of divorce; sadly it's almost always the women that get the short end of the stick.  I would suggest this has absolutely nothing to do with people who don't marry and everything to do with divorce.

That's not the reason I didn't join and decided to move on though.  I did that because of things like --
- Preaching the prosperity Gospel
- speculating how big one's checking account in heaven would be if folks tithe {I'm actually understating this one}
- unusual signs and wonders that don't line up with scripture
- fire tunnels {people can web search this or see it on YouTube}
- Christian music where they ask the fire of God to come down
- pastors who claim to have some special anointing nobody else has [as in "the anointing"]
- Strange guest speakers claiming to have a strange anointing that could be passed on by the laying on of hands
- One of the guest speakers yelling "spread like a virus" as he lays hands on folks
- A strange desire to give disgraced pastors a 2nd chance, always somebody who "has the anointing"
- The head pastor claiming to have a strange anointing for money because Oral Roberts told him that.
- Constant name dropping because of relationships and encounters with celebrities.

It actually didn't seem that bad at first, I don't know if they changed over time or it slowly became obvious to me that something was wrong there.

Well many of those things do sound weird. I am all for Gods children using the gifts of the spirit, as taught about by Paul, but I wouldnt feel comfortable at that church either.
I know few people who have that sort of money in retirement, married or divorced, but as a believer I really dont worry because I have seen him provide for us in the past and he will do again.
As for divorce, if you ask 20 believers what God says about divorce you will get 20 different answers, and they all believe they are right. I believe that we have a God of new beginnings and fresh starts, and who will restore to us all that we have lost. I have seen this in my own life.

There is a position between full blown Pentecostalism, the "Strange Fire" manifestations on one end and pure Cessationism on the other end.  To me almost nobody I have encountered is a pure Cessationist as they almost always believe in some sense that God will answer prayer for things like healing and recovery.
Sometimes this position is called "Charismatic friendly", and often involves discernment leading folks to believe a large percentage of the "Strange Fire" events are somehow deceptive.  If you want to learn about some of the more bizarre things web search "Strange Fire Conference" or "Lakeland Revival".

As for singles, there has always been a percentage of the population that remains single for a variety of reasons.  In these times we are living in an age where divorce is higher, there is a higher population of single parents and other changes in society that have taken place starting in the 2nd half or the last century.

Getting back to the original topic, no, there is nothing wrong with those of us who remain single for whatever reason.  One of the things I'll do is to listen to sermons from various churches in my area as in these days most of it is archived on the church web sites.  On more than one occasion and with more than one group I have heard this suggestion that something is wrong with the men who don't support others by marriage or remarriage.

I would argue that the changes in society in no way put additional pressure or point the finger at men who would stay single anyway.  Same goes for the women who don't marry single guys who have custody of minor children, they aren't denying kids a "mother figure", they're just remaining single.
There is a Christian obligation to support the cause of the widow and orphan if one has resources, but that has nothing to do with marriage, dating relation ships or meddling in the affairs of others {as in match-making}.

I've also heard things said of others in the sense of gossip or snoopiness, when meeting somebody who is single perhaps it is natural for folks who think marriage is the norm to ask "why?".  It may be true that folks are more polite about gossip and snoopiness in the UK. 

matthew 3v1
I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

So the 'fire' thing is Biblical.

if anyone wants to be single that is their decision. In my experience though, most people who are single dont actually want to be. So in that sense its is unusual.  I do think that most who try and 'match make' are trying their best to help, albeit in the wrong way.

I cant say I have ever heard teachings on single people needing to marry. Most are well aware of that and would love to marry if the right person came along. 

The baptism of fire is biblical alright.  This starts in verse 7 when the Pharisees and Sadducees show up on the scene.
I'll repeat 10 - 12 to show how "fire" is used.

10 - And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11- I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The fire is for the chaff, the one we want is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The exact wording of what happened in the Pentecost does not match "fire falling down from heaven" or being baptized and immersed in fire,  that's never a good thing in scripture.  The fire is for the unrepentant or unsaved without getting into detailed doctrine about what everybody's final situation may be.

I would strongly suggest that anybody who has been exposed at that level to these preachers Google "you tube strange fire conference panel QA"  and at least listen to the other side of the debate.  I believe the whole conference with all the presentations is available but that's many hours of presentation.  I have certainly listened to many on each side.

As for singles, many of us who are in our mid-late 50s and perhaps some younger who have been single adults for almost 40 years really don't want to get married.  It didn't start out that way but after a certain time one's views change along with one's situation.  For folks who adapt to the married life style they often want remarriage, which sort of means "changing partners" and remarriage after a divorce or losing a partner.  Perhaps single women at this age feel differently, I really don't know.  But there is a bias for those who get married to think everybody wants to be married.

: R-Simon  Mon Aug 11, 2014 - 17:11:47
The baptism of fire is biblical alright.  This starts in verse 7 when the Pharisees and Sadducees show up on the scene.
I'll repeat 10 - 12 to show how "fire" is used.

10 - And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11- I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 - Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The fire is for the chaff, the one we want is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The exact wording of what happened in the Pentecost does not match "fire falling down from heaven" or being baptized and immersed in fire,  that's never a good thing in scripture.  The fire is for the unrepentant or unsaved without getting into detailed doctrine about what everybody's final situation may be.

I would strongly suggest that anybody who has been exposed at that level to these preachers Google "you tube strange fire conference panel QA"  and at least listen to the other side of the debate.  I believe the whole conference with all the presentations is available but that's many hours of presentation.  I have certainly listened to many on each side.

As for singles, many of us who are in our mid-late 50s and perhaps some younger who have been single adults for almost 40 years really don't want to get married.  It didn't start out that way but after a certain time one's views change along with one's situation.  For folks who adapt to the married life style they often want remarriage, which sort of means "changing partners" and remarriage after a divorce or losing a partner.  Perhaps single women at this age feel differently, I really don't know.  But there is a bias for those who get married to think everybody wants to be married.

yes I am sure there are a few older singles who have never been married, who dont want to, and would probably find it hard to adjust at that stage in their life to a family. Having said that my aunt met and married the love of her life when she was 60 and he 70. He was a widower.
I dont actually know any older men who have never been married, and only a tiny number of older women who havent, but the ones I do know, and those who are widowed or divorced, would generally like to meet someone else.

The churches I have been to in the last 20 years, which are charismatic, havent ever got into any weird or unbiblical stuff, so I have never been concerned by the extremes you mention.